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i was really looking forward on getting myself a droid/milestone X/2 when it's available in europe. but i just read that the droidX (and maybe all upcoming motorola devices according to http://community.developer.motorola...OMs-and-Motorola-s-Android-Handsets/ba-p/4224) will have a completely locked bootloader as the original milestone had. it's as of today not possible to flash a custom rom on a >7 month old milestone, how weak is that?!
although i like the hardware of the moto-devices and really wanted one, this is definitly a no-go for me and defeats the purpose of android as a open(source)/linux os! i'm done with motorola, just ordered a galaxy s which is completely open!
i don't believe that motorola cares if 10.000 geeky people won't buy theire device because it's locked but it would nevertheless be good to show them that we care!
i'm curious what others think about that!
I think it's horse**** that they are locking it
I mean what's it to them if we can flash our phones??
Maybe they don't want their rom software to be leaked out? besides that I see no other reason for this
sp1kez said:
I think it's horse**** that they are locking it
I mean what's it to them if we can flash our phones??
Maybe they don't want their rom software to be leaked out? besides that I see no other reason for this
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Click to collapse
that's my point. if i buy a piece of hardware, i should own it completely and do with it what i want! also one would think that motorola would (or at least could) appreciate a bunch of developers modding and patching their devices to make them more appealing to the community. i just installed cm6 (froyo) on my htc magic. it works better than ever, how cool is that! would not be possible with a locked bootloader...
example milestone: although no custom rom's can be booted (the bootloader boots only moto-signed kernels) the device can be rooted and so it should be no problem to get a rom-dump. so that can't be the reason...
I was ready to pull the trigger on the Droid X until I heard this. I hate it. You are right, we buy the phone we should own the phone. I still might buy this phone, a vote of confidence to the devs.
I want the large screen. There's nothing out there with as large a screen. The evo, but I've already been burned by that. Maybe if they swap the screen for a better one.
I'm just as angry at Motorola, but I'm still going to purchase a Droid X. It has everything I'm looking for in a phone hardware-wise, and I can't wait any longer to dump the dumbphone I've been using for years. I'm a huge fan of tweaking every piece of technology I have (e.g. hackintosh netbook just for kicks), but I'm going to stick it out with a one-year contract on the Droid X until a better phone comes along.
I've taken a look at the Galaxy S/Fascinate, but it looks far too much like an iPhone to appeal to me, rootable as it may be. Samsung's post-release support is also less than stellar. As closed as Motorola may be by using this bootloader, they are still providing 2.2 to the original Droid this summer, which is more than can be said of a /lot/ of manufacturers.
Yea I had it preordered and everything til I figured out they locked it down, guess they are okay with losing sales by turning unto an apple type company stupid
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Mikerrrrrrrr said:
...
I've taken a look at the Galaxy S/Fascinate, but it looks far too much like an iPhone to appeal to me, rootable as it may be. Samsung's post-release support is also less than stellar. As closed as Motorola may be by using this bootloader, they are still providing 2.2 to the original Droid this summer, which is more than can be said of a /lot/ of manufacturers.
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Click to collapse
i agree. i don't like the iphony-look of the galaxy-s either and i feel like the droid X casing is much more stable. also the omap seemed more appealing to me than samsungs hummingbird. and so on ...
while i think it's a good thing that motorola supports their older devices with updates (at least they do with the droid) my point is/was that a open device enables the community to push the software further ahead. for instance: atm. i still have a htc magic. i just installed cm6 running froyo about a week ago. my device is running better and faster than ever. this would not be possible with a locked bootloader. i would be at the mercy of htc to supply me with an update "sometime in the future", quite frustrating ...
i just don't understand their reasons for this! if it's all just about warranty they could implement a "root and unlock" feature in the settings which would void your warranty e.g. by sending a request to a moto-server or something similar.
maybe it has something to do with drm-stuff as i also wondered that one can only use the (awesome) hdmi-out for self-made media ... kills >50% of the potential of the hdmi-out in my opinion.
jodue said:
i agree. i don't like the iphony-look of the galaxy-s either and i feel like the droid X casing is much more stable. also the omap seemed more appealing to me than samsungs hummingbird. and so on ...
while i think it's a good thing that motorola supports their older devices with updates (at least they do with the droid) my point is/was that a open device enables the community to push the software further ahead. for instance: atm. i still have a htc magic. i just installed cm6 running froyo about a week ago. my device is running better and faster than ever. this would not be possible with a locked bootloader. i would be at the mercy of htc to supply me with an update "sometime in the future", quite frustrating ...
i just don't understand their reasons for this! if it's all just about warranty they could implement a "root and unlock" feature in the settings which would void your warranty ...
maybe it has something to do with drm-stuff as i also wondered that one can only use the (awesome) hdmi-out for self-made media ... kills >50% of the potential of the hdmi-out in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but as it stands, I'm still going to get the phone and hoping out hope for root, although this link (http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html) has me worried about that too.
Mikerrrrrrrr said:
I agree, but as it stands, I'm still going to get the phone and hoping out hope for root, although this link (http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html) has me worried about that too.
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Click to collapse
i hope the best for you mate. maybe it's not that bad and in 2 weeks we are laughing about motorola because some 14 years old hacker has already torn the bootloader apart
I am officially passing on the x droid2 and whatever else Motorola decides to release sorry but I would rather have an open galaxy s than a locked down droidx. IPhone like ui can be changed with a launcher. But their isn't much hope for a double locked bootloader
whoops... has root
Am I wrong to say that the Milestone is still stuck at the OS ver. that it was sold with? And if so, I hear that 2.2 is coming to the X by the end of the summer. I'm sure and exploit can be found in the update process, or hope so.
I'm going to switch to this, simply because I believe that the devs WILL find a way to get around this problem. This is XDA we're talking about, along with a bunch of other communities dedicated to this stuff. Someone will find a way to pull it off, it's just a matter of time. But I plan on having this phone for at least a year, so I have the patience for it.
jodue said:
while i think it's a good thing that motorola supports their older devices with updates (at least they do with the droid) my point is/was that a open device enables the community to push the software further ahead. for instance: atm. i still have a htc magic. i just installed cm6 running froyo about a week ago. my device is running better and faster than ever. this would not be possible with a locked bootloader. i would be at the mercy of htc to supply me with an update "sometime in the future", quite frustrating ...
i just don't understand their reasons for this! if it's all just about warranty they could implement a "root and unlock" feature in the settings which would void your warranty e.g. by sending a request to a moto-server or something similar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you explained 2 reasons for the lock down.
1 is warranty issues
2 is that motorolla can control the life of their product. if after 2 years they give updating the software then you'll be left in the dust and forced to upgrade if want new features.
it's like dlc for games. what used to be free by modding communities has now become a way to squeeze more money out of gamers.
I also agree with you on point 2. This phone is pretty powerful even for me. I consider myself a power user but dont really see how I need a faster phone that this.
This phone, If completely hacked, can have a very long lifespan.
this takes one moto dev
to be on the modder's side.
All this takes is one dev to mess with an official moto update, and this will be tossed due the massive amount of phones that are bricked.
total BS. Knowing Verizon, and why they were late jump on the android bandwagon(because they couldn't "control" an open source opertaing system), this probably came from Verizon pushing Moto to do this. Moto is so desperate to corner the market(unlike HTC) with Verizon, they said yes'maam. Sure no problem you are giving ungodly sums of money why cant we "scratch" your back.
bull****
Let's say that we DON'T unlock this phone.... Would anyone be surprised to see Motorola keep up to day within months of releases in the future???
I see people mentioning the reasoning for it being locked it to control the life of the device.... But seeing how powerful this is and how it is you could say Moto's Flagship model, wouldn't it be int their best interest to keep their customers happy????
Or does everything sell and do you really think they will fall behind on updates...??
Seriously if you really hate the device being locked this much work on an email. I will be shooting an email over to Motorola and Verizon Wireless Customer Support. I can post the email that I am sending on here if you guys want, when I finish typing it.
As for the device being locked it is extremely sad, but many hardware developers are starting to do this. The thinking is that the more they can control what the user does the better the end experience is. That is hardly the truth so just keep cracking the devices so that they get the message we want our own control on the device.
Other than that good luck to all the dev crews out there working to crack the device.
i second the email plan. if enough people fight for an open device, motorola will listen...
12yan said:
i second the email plan. if enough people fight for an open device, motorola will listen...
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Click to collapse
Nope. Every single Droid and Droid X user could email Motorola and they wouldn't care unless it affected sales. The bottom line speaks the loudest. Hell, more than that, it's the ONLY line that speaks
I got this via tweet from mrweeeedbirdman, the person who provided you with the root for Droid X. He also mentioned "If all goes right...unbricker tommorrow/later this week...ill keep you all posted (should also solve the OTA update problem )"
Thanks hijackerjack for creating this.
“You don't make progress by standing on the sidelines, whimpering and complaining. You make progress by implementing ideas.” -Shirley Hufsteddler
Maybe instead of saying it "Not going to happen" Or what every just take 2 minutes to sign this.
http://www.petitiononline.com/motoulbl/petition.html
To: Motorola Inc.
Alright everyone, so Motorola has started locking the bootloaders on their mobile devices such as the Motorola Milestone, Droid X, and in the future, most likely the Droid 2 and any other upcoming phones. Motorola mobile phones are usually extremely high powered, such as the Droid X with its TI OMAP 3630 Processor clocking in at 1 Ghz and the dedicated graphics chip, the PowerVR SGX 530. Us, as the Android community, have been greatly let down due to the locking/signing of the bootloader, restricting our access to install custom, homemade ROM's for the devices that take use out of the high quality hardware and software. We understand what they are trying to protect by locking the bootloader, but the the Android community is almost fully based off of ROM's, hacks, etc. Sign this petition if you would like Motorola to either unlock the bootloader for us or give us the key to unlock it manually.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
I sent this out to a few blogs. Engadget, Droid-Life to name a few only one had the "balls" to post something like this from its readers / fans.
http://droidx.net/droid-x-news/motorola-bootloader-unlock-petition/
It aint happening..
Why would they
Just so you know. This is my petition. I asked him to retweet. I've got ~300 people signed so far. Sign if you want. I also posted this in the android general forum on the site earlier.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Fail double post...
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
They better unlock the bootloader.....
Not trying to be picky but if it says "To: Motorola Inc." and "Sincerely, the undersigned", shouldn't the body of it be written to motorola and not us?? Kinda like saying, hey motorola, look at this letter we wrote to ourselves and signed lol
Its not directed towards them. Its about them. Its directed towards the community to agree with this petition regarding the bootloader which i will then present to motorola when i get enough signatures. There was a layout that the site had and i just followed along.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I'll sign it but it will not make a difference.
jarlaxle said:
I'll sign it but it will not make a difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never hurts to try
Ive got over 510 signatures so far. Aiming for as many as possible. This goes to Milestone, Droid, Future Droid 2 owners, Droid X owners, etc.. not just Droid X
I've been pretty vocal in a few threads about Motorola not having to unlock the bootloader. Our decision to buy a locked phone kind of seals that deal.
However, I do support a campaign like this to try and convince Moto that its in the interest of customer service & retention to do so.
I applaud your efforts, and have signed the petition.
Signed, excited to see the outcome.
Sales up, folks still buying locked Moto Devices...
The ultimate act would be to stop buying the Moto locked products and start supporting the unlocked devices. O how i do love my DroidX but I am also loving the Incredible too. Wife hates when I tinker with her Droid Incredible. =P
All we could do is hope.
jatilq said:
but the the Android community is almost fully based off of ROM's, hacks, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely untrue.
Ryan Frawley said:
Completely untrue.
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Click to collapse
The fact that ROM Manager is #2 and SetCPU is #4 most sold Android apps in Marketplace, I think it is pretty close to true.
jonecat said:
The fact that ROM Manager is #2 and SetCPU is #4 most sold Android apps in Marketplace, I think it is pretty close to true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must agree 100%...
jonecat said:
The fact that ROM Manager is #2 and SetCPU is #4 most sold Android apps in Marketplace, I think it is pretty close to true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, without the developer community and their ROMs, Android would have been a flash in the pan.
i like to think that the number of people who sign it shows Motorola how big their 'hacker' base is.
so the more ppl who sign it the better the chances of taking it seriously.
lets say 100,000 people sign it, then motorola knows 100,000 ppl might not purchase their next phone.
of course if only 1,000 people sign it then M is gonna laugh at it cause they then think eh. whats 1,000 ppl loss vs possible bricked warranty exchanges.
adjust those numbers accordingly, is just an example lol...
just my 2 cents and i signed it!
Well. We'll see how this goes. Ive got 835 people right now.
if yes so officially from motorola or by a rom?
It is my understanding that Gingerbread would require a change in kernal that can't be done due to it's locked bootloader. Though I could be wrong on that. As for a OTA update, I've read several lists that list the Droid 2 as a "possible" upgrade. In otherwords, it can happen, but I wouldnt hold my breath.
Yeah, Moto and Verizon have kept silent about what phones are getting upgrades. It would be nice if they would just put out a list, even if they don't give out dates.
I have been told by a VZW insider to not count on it. Note however this same source told me the Eris was dead, and just last week the Eris received an OTA update to fix things that needed to be fixed.
I only wished my Motorola insiders would tell me something, but they won't say a darn word, and they are friends, good friends.
I would imagine it's more of a decision of Moto than Verizon. I don't really see Verizon not releasing an upgrade for a phone that Motorola released. Thus I would pry more at the Moto guys than the Verizon guy, cause they'd likely just be guessing at what Moto will do.
In my personal opinion I really dnt think it matters if we get GB since we already have a lot of stuff better than the blur GB such as gummyjar, liberty! I mean if we do get it, were still going to bootstrap it and change the rom, well atleast I will lol
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
I'm almost positive we will get gingerbread. It would be pretty messed up for a high end device to never get one upgrade. Remember the D2 launched with froyo.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Very true.
I say if we don't get timely upgrades to keep our phones functional, we launch a class action lawsuit against Motorola.
Well the only thing about that is
A. Our phones are functional even without further updates
and
B. As far as I'm aware, there was nothing in the contracts we sign saying they HAVE to update our phones...
So from a legal standpoint, I doubt you could even get a class action lawsuit far.
(I realize you were probably joking, but this is true)
From what I've read, it looks like we could get Gingerbread on our own, because it doesn't require a new kernel.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA Premium App
OMG, why all wants new and new version of Android? GB totally suck, nothing new, only new graphic and ctrl+c and ctrl+v ... I don't like gingerbread almost. Its just only number, nothing more
Actually, I'm quite serious. If they hold us by contract to a single phone for two years, it is their responsibility to keep it updated with patches.
Rooted Droid 2 running Froyo 2.2 with the 2.3.20 update
Actually, unless it is something totally crippling, then once they've sold you the phone they don't have to anything. Because unless it is something crippling then there can be no argument made for usability, and as long as the phone is usable you would have no case.
-Gilgamesh- said:
Actually, unless it is something totally crippling, then once they've sold you the phone they don't have to anything. Because unless it is something crippling then there can be no argument made for usability, and as long as the phone is usable you would have no case.
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Click to collapse
Exactly. They are not held by the contract you signed to update the android operating system AT ALL. Patches are one thing, as long as they are critical to the functionality of your phone. Seeing as how the current 2.3.20 is working fine with no major problems, they have no obligation to update android.
Google could require manufacturers to make any patches they put out available.
2.3.20 has problems, such as the phone sometime rebooting itself or not coming out of sleep mode when the power button is pressed. Those are issues that Motorola is supposed to address and fix. I paid for a working phone, not a problem.
silverfang77 said:
Google could require manufacturers to make any patches they put out available.
2.3.20 has problems, such as the phone sometime rebooting itself or not coming out of sleep mode when the power button is pressed. Those are issues that Motorola is supposed to address and fix. I paid for a working phone, not a problem.
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Click to collapse
I see your point. However, 2.3 isn't a patch, its a complete system upgrade. Besides, forcing phone makers to push out EVERY udpate google puts out would be very expensive for the makers, and deter them from making further android phones.
I do think Moto should fix problems like those with maintenance releases, but that still does not obligate them to update them to 2.3
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have 2.3 on my d2, but I'm not holding my breath.
Sorry to jump in but what about the security issues present in the phone? They put people in harms way by not attempting to patch phones.You could make a case that the the security issues were unknown at the time you signed the contract making it invalid. I understand your point but the security factor is why just saying the phone works its not acceptable..at this time there is nothing a person can do to patch these exploits and we have the text message bug that could ruin your life..Its an interesting situation that needs too be fixed.please correct me if I am missing something here.
Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk
I actually love how people keep bringing up the contract. You have your service with Verizon, whom is also who sold you the phone, thus your contact is with Verizon, not Moto. Thus, your contract has not thing one to do with Moto, thus they could care less what your contract says. And because Moto is the one responsible with issuing the updates, not Verizon, Your contract doesn't relate in any way to any type of updates.
If you want class action, it should be against Motorola for their eFuse malware. This is the real reason we have no gingerbread on our phones. Custom ROMs would already be here which would be good enough for everybody but the most incompetent non-techies too afraid to even root.
I'd also argue that Motorola is fraudulauntly branding these devices as android. Every other manufacturer that sells android devices does not cripple them. I even did a little bit of research before I purchased my device and saw nobody warning about this. I figured "hey, android is open source, these are the most popular devices, what could go wrong?"
Absurd.
Why have things been so quiet on the dev front lately?
There was an initial flurry of activity, and most of the big ticket items were taken care of like rooting, sideloading, enabling tethering, webtop hacks, HDMI mirroring, etc. Thanks to DG and the other devs for that!
However, afaik we've only got 2 ROMs so far. I was hoping to join in the dev community when I get the time, but there doesn't seem to be much of one anymore.
Other moto devices with locked bootloaders do have significantly more activity. I'm tempted to jump ship to the Verizon Thunderbolt now... pity because I really like the Atrix despite it's locked bootloader.
(I don't mean to disparage the work done so far... I realize that one of the reasons activity has slowed down is because the big ticket items have been taken care of
Like I've stated in another post in a different thread. Without an unlocked bootloader, you're going to be hearing crickets in these forums soon, as peoples 30 day trial periods are soon coming up. Sure not everyone is returning it but no dev support means a dead device for those of us that want custom roms. There is nothing more to say. If for some off chance the bootloader becomes unlocked you can always buy it again if you still want to support motorola. But don't keep this device based on hope. Accept that moto screwed you and return it while you still can. I am 7 days to go...
No, I'm not keeping it based on hope. I want to keep it because I really like the form factor of the phone as well as its resolution and battery life. I also wanted a phone with HDMI out.
You don't need a custom kernel to have a ROM - sure that imposes limitations on what you can do. In fact, the GingerBlur ROM proved that you can get some enhancements of newer Android releases without changing the kernel.
I can understand though that fewer DEVs would be motivated to work on a phone with a locked/signed bootloader. However, the Droid X forums seem to be pretty active...
i too am a little disappointed at the shrinking dev base - i've seen some leave. however of AT&T android phones, regardless of the software this one appeals to me the most for its form factor/size (i wanted 4" over 4.3"), front-camera and color (all black). the HDMI out (+enabled webtop) is nice too, along with the screen resolution.
'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
Well, I'm sticking with it regardless. I got it on launch day and I plan to enjoy it to the fullest.
The tegra 2 game that I want isn't even out yet.
NoNameAtAll said:
'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
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Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!
professor_chaos said:
Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.
I just found out that DG has left us... this totally blows, though at least Kenneth is still working on the GingerBlur ROM.
eallan said:
I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.
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Click to collapse
Did just that and never looked back. LTE Blows at&t out the water where I live and even tough single core...it feels just as fast.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
It does suck we have one person creating roms. Ken is doing an amazing job but only one man can only do so much. I feel that if more devs were here creating roms people would stick around. I plan on keeping mine for awhile since I bought it outright...I'm due for an upgrade soon so well see.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.
It's not the devs fault that Moto screwed them, most folks got it on the hint that moto had changed for the better and was going to make the bootloader open.
I can't blame the folks for taking them back.
Hell I have a Captivate, Hardware outstanding ( just like the Atrix, ok minus the GPS ) Software flat out sucks, at least the devs could do something with the Captivate with the open bootloader. It makes it a pretty damn good phone.
Just imagine what could done with the Atrix if the devs could actually do something with it, Kens isn't real happy either as I'm sure his considerable talent is being stifled by Moto, that burns his ass a lot more than folks returning it because moto rammed it home hard.
I'm sitting on couple of upgrades right now and would get the Atrix in a heartbeat IF Moto and ATT would allow it to be open for the devs. In the meantime I'll wait and may switch to Sprint ( even though I've been Orange for over ten years ) for the Evo3d ( think I read somewhere it has Wimax and LTE radios in it ), that thing is looking real nice and about as future proof as it get's in this industry.
Atrix is a bust Motorola really blew it with the locked bootloader. They underestimated the developer communities influence and it's coming back to bite them in their fat greedy ass.
BravoMotorola said:
I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.
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Click to collapse
It's not like everyone is saying that. But the ones saying that are really being vocal about it. I don't get all the hate. Phone has not even one month and mostly I see people complaining about the locked bootloader. Eventually, that will get cracked.
Devnant said:
Eventually, that will get cracked.
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Click to collapse
such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.
cegna09 said:
such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves
live4nyy said:
and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves
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Click to collapse
i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.
cegna09 said:
i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given the specs of this phone and the capabilities I think that the development community represents a higher percentage in the overall buyers base for this phone. Rooting and custom ROMs are becoming more "fashionable" to average users. I'm not saying that there will be an immediate impact within the lifespan of this phone but if Moto continues these methods it will turn around to bite them
look at the other dual core tegra phone(optimus 2x). the devs and the the people there seems to be really happy with their phone now that clockwordmod is available and some custom kernels are already taking into place(optimus 2x is not yet release here in US and some part of europe)
so i think the locked bootloader is one of the major culprit why most devs are leaving atrix and so are some people who wants custom roms for their phone. its a big disppointment really, moto and at&t are [insert word here]
its a good phone but motorola is acting like apple.
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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Click to collapse
See above for my response to this!
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.
roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Click to collapse
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
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Click to collapse
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
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Click to collapse
^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.
Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
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Click to collapse
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
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Click to collapse
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.
elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
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by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?