Database Users

The nature of my remorse

I struggled long and hard with the decision to purchase the EVO. Its competitor for my patronage was the Nexus One on T-Mobile. At last, I made my decision based upon the following criteria: 1) better hardware, 2) better network, and 3) better price. Seems a no brainer, right?
Now that what's done is done, I'm left with a sense of remorse. Over what? Openness. Fortunately, I haven't bricked my Evo yet, but there is a very real possibility that I will at some point. With no open boot loader and a carrier hellbent on closing their system, I have to break into my own phone with a bunch of borrowed hacks, the mechanics of which are about 3 miles over my head.
What was Google really trying to do? By cutting out the carrier from distribution, the carriers don't have an opportunity to bake the system with their garbageware and close the door behind them. By failing to support Google's effort, each of us makes it less likely in some small amount that Google will do this again. We sold them out for a front-facing camera and a bit more screen (with light leak).
Then there we will be on the forums complaining about those evil, freedom-hating carriers. But then, perhaps we chose this and deserve our fates.

If you really were deciding between the nexus one and the evo how come you didn't know the evo was locked .... I mean about just everyone knew this, every single phone but the nexus one its locked from the beginning give it a few days for people to release root, I had a nexus one and couldn't be more happy to have bought the evo I hope you enjoy your phone man
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Sent from my HTC Evo via the XDA Tapatalk App

Rooting isn't THAT hard. Stop being such a drama queen.
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Sent from my EVO 4G using Tapatalk Pro.

TheBiles said:
Rooting isn't THAT hard. Stop being such a drama queen.
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You do realize that we do not have full root--and might not ever have full root, right?
You also realize as time goes on that this will inevitably become more difficult?
As charged as the OP's post is, he does have a point.

aLdaRiS said:
If you really were deciding between the nexus one and the evo how come you didn't know the evo was locked .... I mean about just everyone knew this, every single phone but the nexus one its locked from the beginning give it a few days for people to release root, I had a nexus one and couldn't be more happy to have bought the evo I hope you enjoy your phone man
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Sent from my HTC Evo via the XDA Tapatalk App
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I knew the evo was locked. I was just too caught up in the specs and the excitement. I got greedy. She was hot, so I cheated. Now I'm sober and feel a sense of remorse.

nihilion_Zero said:
I knew the evo was locked. I was just too caught up in the specs and the excitement. I got greedy. She was hot, so I cheated. Now I'm sober and feel a sense of remorse.
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Why don't you just return the phone if this bugs you so much?

Shidell said:
You do realize that we do not have full root--and might not ever have full root, right?
You also realize as time goes on that this will inevitably become more difficult?
As charged as the OP's post is, he does have a point.
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I'm fairly confident that we will get NAND access fairly soon. There is no such thing as an "unhackable" device. Even now, though, it is NOT that difficult to access recovery and easily flash custom ROMs.

Just my two cents, I have only had one android phone and that was the mytouch from t-mobile. I now have the HTC - HD2 and really like it. When it comes to flashing roms, especially for someone new to winmo like me, it can be a bit scary. The developers have a HSPL flash that takes away almost all the risks as long as you use common sense and read things carefully. With that said I did see where a Chef of the HD2 bricked his phone just a few days ago (I have no idea what he was attempting to do when he bricked it but it did make me realize the danger)
Thanks
Derbyman32

Yes, if the remorse is really that bad, take it back. Sprint will refund ALL of your money. Then get the Nexus One for T-Mobile for $179. No-brainer...and the N1 is still an awesome Android phone!

I've seen enough issues on this forum to know that some people have no business flashing a camera, let alone a $500 phone. These are the same people that will install a GSM radio on their CDMA phone, come here and beg for a fix only to be told "sorry, read the instructions next time." They then head to Sprint, shrug, and say "I don't know, it worked fine yesterday" in the hopes of getting the phone replaced under warranty.
I agree with the premise that they are our phones and we should be able to flash whatever we want on them; however, if *I* break my phone, I do not expect Sprint to fix it. Unfortunately, common ethical behavior such as this escapes enough that Sprint made a business decision to make it hard enough so only those competent enough to follow complex procedures succeed in taking ownership of their phones. I get that. I also knew this before buying the phone.
If it's the principle of the matter for you, you can always go back to the N1, but I'd wonder why you're here in the first place.
Me? I have enough faith in this community to undo the locks, and I'll patiently enjoy the marvel of technology the EVO is while shackled until the benefits of rooting outweigh my perceived risks in performing the procedure.
Until then, I have what I consider to be the best handheld computer on the planet. Sorry for being long winded.

jmxp69 said:
Until then, I have what I consider to be the best handheld computer on the planet. Sorry for being long winded.
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I second that emotion! And it can even make the occasional phone call, too!

nihilion_Zero said:
carrier hellbent on closing their system, I have to break into my own phone with a bunch of borrowed hacks, the mechanics of which are about 3 miles over my head.
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I don't think a LESS true statement could be said.
Sprint doesn't give two flying flips what you do with your device. They have never made a move to precent root access, and MANY of the same reps who sell these devices root when it becomes available. The phone comes locked because of security and licensing agreements.
An example for the Evo is QIK. QIK is not made by Sprint, HTC, or Google. It is its own entity who paid HTC and Sprint a great deal of money to bake this app into the firmware. It would be a violation of that agreement to allow you to remove this app by default, therefore Root access is removed.
Android, when rooted, has so many holes in the security that information on the phone (like your contact list!) would in no way be considered safe. Sprint has to make some guarantee for that information, so those holes are filled and Root accessis denied.
However, should you be one of those FEW people competent enough to handle this kind of power, and you understand that Sprint, HTC, and Google will honor to warranty for the device should you break it then go for it. None of these companies will make even a token effort to stop you.
You are, for all intents and purposes, ignored. Software updates will be made as though Root did not exist. Known issues and fixes will be sent to employees and techs as though you did not exist. Features will be advertised as stock that you might no longer have, because you no longer exist.
It's not that the "carrier is bent on closing the system" it's that they are bound be several contracts to not help you.

Locked bootloaders...a new trend?

I read that the new Motorola Droid X and Droid 2 will have digitally signed bootloaders. Which means that only approved Motorola ROMS can be flashed. I wonder how long it will be before HTC and everyone else starts doing this? This could put an end to all of our fun! Of course the cellular providers will save a lot of money if they don't have to replace all of those bricked phones. It will be interesting to see what happens to the bootloader in future OTA and Froyo updates for the DInc...

this belongs in general

Lexus One said:
This could put an end to all of our fun!
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It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.

We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.

acezhi said:
We should as a community all patition the cell phone companys for a truely open handset.
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Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.

Moved as not development.

reagianicparable said:
It will always be a cat and mouse game. Rarely ever ends. We always find another way around.
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Possibly. But it takes a hell of a lot longer when you're up against encryption. You usually only win this battle if someone on the inside leaks the key. And by then there are new phones coming out and this keeps getting lower and lower on the priority list. Personally, I don't think we can win the encryption battle...

its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions

two_cents said:
its not a new thing its a motorola thing... htc likes to give its buyers what they like.. and since we all like it a little different I dont see them locking their bootloader anytime soon... they made the nexus one which is the only true open source phone so far but they messed up on the marketing of it... all 3 phones you mention are motorola and the only htc phone I see with any kind of restriction would be the HTC aria on ATT cause you can't install 3rd party apps but that is due to ATT not HTC restrictions
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Granted, HTC *may* never lock their bootloader, but what is to stop Verizon from demanding it? Verizon is permitting it in the Motorola. What if this turns out to be a profit maximizer for them? Could HTC next? Time will tell...

I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.

What it boils down to is PROFIT. Verizon will weigh the revenues and decide with their pocketbooks. It doesn't make any difference whether HTC likes it or not. Verizon calls the shots. If HTC says no, they're gone. Samsung or LG or someone else will pick up the slack. As for losing customers, it doesn't matter. Money is what matters. Just ask any of our greed driven cellular companies if you don't believe me. Personally, I don't think there are that many people who re-flash their ROMS and would care if the bootloader is locked or not. I think we are a very small percentage of the total.

Honestly77 said:
I don't see locking up phones as a way to "make money" if anything it will alienate your customer/developer base and no one will buy the phones with the locked bootloaders. Especially if HTC doesn't trend up and continues to be a nice company. Motorola has already LOST A LOT of preorders on there Droid X because of the encrypted bootloader. Doesn't matter...they can't seem to keep them in stock anyway. Good riddens to a WAY to large handset with a crappy UI overlay.
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I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.

TNS201 said:
Petitioning? What are you some kind of tree loving hippie? JK That **** never works though. Petitions, protesting, etc is for idiots who think it will accomplish something.
They are even stupider for locking these down. Sure people mess up phones trying to mod them. Now they are making ways for you to totally brick your phone. Don't they think more people will now make insurance claims even more if you try to mod your phone and mess it up.
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Click to collapse
Just adding to it. Not saying petitioning and protesting would work, but:
Petitioning and protesting only work through fear. When it's you > the company, then the company will give in. If we have 20 thousand people say that we want truly open handsets, they still won't, because they know theres another hundred thousand that will still buy it. If they fear that if having a locked handset will make them no sales unless they give in, then they will.

Motorola tried leaving it unlocked with the Driod, but then, for whatever reasons, they locked the bootloader in the X. Why do you suppose Motorola would do this? Do they have incompetent marketing people? Remember they have the numbers...we don't. So we can only guess as to why they chose the way they did. Perhaps Verizon had something to do with it? I can't wait to see what they do to the bootloader in the next OTA for the DI.

Asterdroid said:
I think you may be overestimating the percentage of android users who are interested in rooting their phones. Motorola will make a tiny bit less money on phone sales, but they will also lose less money on unnecessary replacements.
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I agree with the notion that the vast majority of android users are not interested in rooting their phones; however, i think that the frequency with which carriers replace phones bricked due to customization is overestimated. I mean I have flashed customs ROMs, radios, recovery images, etc. onto my N1 and my DI dozens upon dozens of times and never run into a problem that couldn't be fixed with a battery pull and a restore (at the most). In contrast, I bricked three iphone 3GS's in six months while attempting to customize them. Obviously, apple is notorious for locking their **** down, so I am not convinced that the notion that verizon will have to replace fewer X's than, say, DI's holds water

[Q] XPrize: Get Gingerbread on Fascinate? GREEN LIT!

Hey guys,
I'm feeling rather enterprising at the moment. The question is, what would it take to get a clean/stock/aosp version of Gingerbread up and running for the Verizon Fascinate? Could an XPrize style reward work? If so how much would it need to be? $1000? less? A LOT MORE? Thoughts? PLEASE ANYBODY, THOUGHTS? I need replys from devs and non-devs... If there is enough interest we could easily setup a prize fund and have it auto-refund people if the prize was not attained within a given time frame...anybody?
/Andrew
UPDATE 1: I'm totally gonna set this up! See my latest post (pg.4) for more details and new questions.
UPDATE 2:
(1) Money is the strongest motivating force that we can use.
(2) Refunds will be available should you change your mind about supporting the XPRIZE.
(3) Waiting for an official release is futile. They are MONTHS behind on a Froyo release, and we will all likely have new phones with HoneyComb before we get gingerbread through official channels.
(4) The CDMA radio is understandable the biggest obstacle, money should at least get people to work more aggressively to fix this or pursue a leak.
(5) beg, borrow, steal, i want a true google experience with the ability to RULE THE AIR, on verizon.
"Can you hear me now?"

come on guys, i can tell this is getting a few views, just add a quick reply and say, that you think this a good or bad idea...please

Sounds appealing, but I don't think this is the ideal phone developers would want to spend time on. I'm using this phone simply as a bridge to the Nexus S.

i can understand the nexus S appeal, but i imagine there are many people who wouldn't want to leave Verizon. In fact i ditched my iphone not only because Steve Jobs is a prick, but more importantly because Verizon has a much better network...

trojjanhorse said:
Sounds appealing, but I don't think this is the ideal phone developers would want to spend time on. I'm using this phone simply as a bridge to the Nexus S.
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Oh, and it looks like you may not even have a Sansung Fascinate...on verizon...which is the phone i am posting about. Most of the Galaxy S variants are GSM/HSPA phones, the fascinate is a CDMA/EVDO phone and seems to be not benefit as much from the development on the other variants because of its different modem/radio. This is why i think we (verizon facinate owners) need to put some incentives out there...

I like the idea, just not sure how viable it actually is.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

dboss713 said:
I like the idea, just not sure how viable it actually is.
+1
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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andrewblanejr said:
Oh, and it looks like you may not even have a Sansung Fascinate...on verizon...which is the phone i am posting about. Most of the Galaxy S variants are GSM/HSPA phones, the fascinate is a CDMA/EVDO phone and seems to be not benefit as much from the development on the other variants because of its different modem/radio. This is why i think we (verizon facinate owners) need to put some incentives out there...
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i agree with this

Would gladly donate a few bucks for that sweet Gingerbread..

It's a nice idea but I don't think it'll go. We don't even have a working port of 2.2 yet, nor AOSP of 2.2 running on this device... Would I like to see some gingerbread goodness? Why heck yes, but do I think it's possible...? Nope. Best just to wait for OTA release and modify it I say...
...Yes I know with samsungs history we wont see that until android 5.1 but that's besides the point!

I would gladly donate sounds like a good idea if we can make it happen
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

Good idea sure
Although I have not done any really really heavy dev work for the platform, I think this is more a question on feasibility. Would I kick in for it sure, breaking totally free of the VZW\Samsung cycle would be great. However without some support or "leaks" making everything work would be a monumental task. At least if I understand the methodology.

i'd give at least $30 towards this..

I'm not going to say its not possible....but more like its not probable. It might get some money hungry devs on the fascinate though (ultimatedroid), so it cant be too bad. Well talk is cheap as they say.... So start the xPrize and see what happens...the worse thing that could happen is probably nothing gets done.
And i apologize right now in advance.... but this doesnt belong in this forum.... lol... i had to. im sorry.

Being a dev, I have to say its more trouble than its worth.
First we'd have to hack up at LEAST the .32 kernel and get froyo running. Without the froyo kernel source, its more of a pain than anything. Getting the system running to be compatible is no where near as hard as Getting the kernel.. That's something different.

I don't know what would be involved in making something like this happen, but I'd throw $50 at it.

Considering we don't have a fully working build of AOSP 2.1, I can't see this happening. Maybe if there is better source released for 2.2 when it gets here it will be easier, but I feel like if that happens, then devs would work on it anyway.

I don't think people realize that we've had aosp froyo all along. What we don't have is our driver specific kernel. We'll have gingerbread the day it becomes available but that doesn't mean anything as we won't have kernel again at the release.
@op you want us build up from the ground like we did with milestone? NONE of us will go through that hell again ever. $1000? haha that amount is nothing considering what we would put in if we were to build it up from the ground again.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

i have seen a prize work
a little history
my first smart phone was the VZ 6900 aka the HTC vogue
a windows mobile 6 phone that never had an "official" Rom or Kernel for android and yet the dev were able to not only build a fully working android 2.2 including getting all drivers to work, and as we speak those same vogue dev are now working on 2.3 builds, mind you i am not a dev and but i know this took a lot of work but a prize is what got the team moving and i would give $20 or more if we could get this going

So among poll responders most non-dev USERS would be willing to contribute some money towards this. Good news, but with only two responders claiming to be developers it's hard to say whether we could really get the interest of developers...perhaps i should PM some people? who are the big shot developers in these parts?

Are we going to be outdated before we are Dated?

I know alot of peoples stance on the SD card, Motorola never officially said when the SD card will work blahblahblah. I don't care. There are three major factors in why I chose the xoom, one it came out around tax time, two it had an SD card, and three it had a 4g upgrade in 90 days. Now the SD card, if anyone remembers correctly wasn't announced nonfumctional till within a week of its launch, I don't exactly know cause I somehow missed that memo until after I purchased my xoom. But regardless of what some people think about it, I expected it within a timely manner. Now with news of the xoom 2 hitting motors site during that slip up, I am to wonder whether our xoom will be outdated before its even got all the features I expected from it.now I know all devises get outdated rather quickly, but when i spent my 800+ on the thing I expected a good 6-12 month period before that would happen. With my lack of 4g and SD card running on stock, it looks like well be outdated when the tab 10.1 releases. Maybe not with a quadcore, or any substantial hardware, but with the features I bought my xoom for over 3 months ago. I do enjoy my xoom, and its bezel is far supirior to any other android tablet out there, but I want my damn features!
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

RadDudeTommy said:
I know alot of peoples stance on the SD card, Motorola never officially said when the SD card will work blahblahblah. I don't care. There are three major factors in why I chose the xoom, one it came out around tax time, two it had an SD card, and three it had a 4g upgrade in 90 days. Now the SD card, if anyone remembers correctly wasn't announced nonfumctional till within a week of its launch, I don't exactly know cause I somehow missed that memo until after I purchased my xoom. But regardless of what some people think about it, I expected it within a timely manner. Now with news of the xoom 2 hitting motors site during that slip up, I am to wonder whether our xoom will be outdated before its even got all the features I expected from it.now I know all devises get outdated rather quickly, but when i spent my 800+ on the thing I expected a good 6-12 month period before that would happen. With my lack of 4g and SD card running on stock, it looks like well be outdated when the tab 10.1 releases. Maybe not with a quadcore, or any substantial hardware, but with the features I bought my xoom for over 3 months ago. I do enjoy my xoom, and its bezel is far supirior to any other android tablet out there, but I want my damn features!
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
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I think you have a right to be disappointed and even angry, because the way things are advertised these days can be very misleading. The biggest issue for you, I think, is the promised 4G conversion...that would be a big one for me. I got a WiFi Xoom only because I aready have a mobile 4G hotspot that works well for me. But I really do sympathize. Do you want to do some of the customizing (rooting/custom kernels...) that can make this a really wonderful device? Or are you trying to stay stock so that the 4G upgrade will not be problemmatic when it happens? Either way, you've got a great device. With Moore's Law and the manufacturers' desire for more and more money, no one will be able to stay on the bleeding edge of this technology for long. Try to regret less and have more fun with your Xoom. Just my 2 cents worth.

Motorola support
Motorola support is virtually non-existant. They are already selling the Xoom to discount retailers and it is selling on Ebay for $499 ( Wi-Fi model ).
The Motorola support forum is helpful as is this one. But be careful on Motorola.
I got banned for criticizing their lack of support and communication.
If you're a fanboy though you're gold there.

Arizona Willie said:
I got banned for criticizing their lack of support and communication.
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That's the reason you're going with, huh?

I'll be rooting, and I know I could now and enjoy more. My main reason for not originally had been to just make it past the 4g upgrade, but with that possibly taking another 90 days I might look into it sooner. All I really would be rooting for is the SD card, until icecream comes out and we can get some devs to make some custom roms, I really don't have that big a reason 'sides SD, and ocing. Are there any other benefits in doing so? I do have to read up on it all, cause the closest thing I did to rooting was jailbreaking the iPhone (which I did that from day one). I guess I don't really know the point of this thread besides to see if others feel the same, I mean I feel like I was straight lied too. People on here keep saying just because the SD card slot was included doesn't mean we should expect it, well that may be true for a 100$ device, but when you pay as much as some of us, it had better work, and damn fast. But I guess not, and I guess there isn't much that can be done about that. My anger isn't at the Xoom, I love this thing so much even at stock. It simply is directed towards Motorola. I wouldnt have been a hard early adopter to please, just my 4g, my SD, and with 3.1 my face literally would have stayed this way XD for days.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

kcrudup said:
That's the reason you're going with, huh?
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What happens is the Motorola fanboys gang bang people with negative opinions of Motorola. They are allowed to personally attack you, but as soon as fight back, Matt starts sending you threats of being banned.
Hell, between how I've been treated in that forum, and the obvious hardware design problems Motorola is having (see work-in-progress Xoom and the back-to-the-drawingboard Bionic), while wasting resources and time on turning Blur into Big Brother and locked bootloaders, I'm never buying a Motorola product again.
Sent from my Bolt

kurttrail said:
What happens is the Motorola fanboys gang bang people with negative opinions of Motorola. They are allowed to personally attack you, but as soon as fight back, Matt starts sending you threats of being banned.
Hell, between how I've been treated in that forum, and the obvious hardware design problems Motorola is having (see work-in-progress Xoom and the back-to-the-drawingboard Bionic), while wasting resources and time on turning Blur into Big Brother and locked bootloaders, I'm never buying a Motorola product again.
Sent from my Bolt
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"Freedom is slavery", right?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

chbennett said:
"Freedom is slavery", right?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Freedom to find your own SD card solution.
Freedom from 4g.
Freedom from unlocking bootloaders, except when Google forces them to have an unlockable bootloader.
Sent from my Bolt

kurttrail said:
Freedom to find your own SD card solution.
Freedom from 4g.
Freedom from unlocking bootloaders, except when Google forces them to have an unlockable bootloader.
Sent from my Bolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, the slogans of <strike>Ingsoc</strike> Apple:
o Freedom is Slavery
o Ignorance is Strength

RadDudeTommy said:
I'll be rooting, and I know I could now and enjoy more. My main reason for not originally had been to just make it past the 4g upgrade, but with that possibly taking another 90 days I might look into it sooner. All I really would be rooting for is the SD card, until icecream comes out and we can get some devs to make some custom roms, I really don't have that big a reason 'sides SD, and ocing. Are there any other benefits in doing so? I do have to read up on it all, cause the closest thing I did to rooting was jailbreaking the iPhone (which I did that from day one). I guess I don't really know the point of this thread besides to see if others feel the same, I mean I feel like I was straight lied too. People on here keep saying just because the SD card slot was included doesn't mean we should expect it, well that may be true for a 100$ device, but when you pay as much as some of us, it had better work, and damn fast. But I guess not, and I guess there isn't much that can be done about that. My anger isn't at the Xoom, I love this thing so much even at stock. It simply is directed towards Motorola. I wouldnt have been a hard early adopter to please, just my 4g, my SD, and with 3.1 my face literally would have stayed this way XD for days.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
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Let me preface this by saying I don't give a damn about Motorola...I followed a link to that forum once and one visit was enough.
However, I think the problem also resides with Google. It's clear that the Xoom hardward supports the external SD card, but for whatever reason, out of the box Honeycomb didn't. The development community enabled it straight away. The manufaturers all want to offer the best specs (and at least the Xoom is well built) but they are operating at the commercial edge of this rapidly changing technology. Still, if they (Moto) make promises they should keep them.

I don't care who is at fault or who is to blame. When you release a product that has features they all better work and i find this to be BS on both Google and Motorola's part! As for the 4G not being enabled withing 90 days like it was promised we should get something in return for being lied to! Maybe a free camera cable!
Motorola builds good quality products but the service and lies are by far starting to outweigh all the good things. If Moto keeps locking down things and going, in my opinion, downhill I will be forced to buy other products that are not of such good quality just to distance myself from all their BS!
As much as I like android and I hate to say this but if things don't change with Google, Motorola, and the rest of the Android manufactures I for one will be going to IOS.

twinkyz1979 said:
As much as I like android and I hate to say this but if things don't change with Google, Motorola, and the rest of the Android manufactures I for one will be going to IOS.
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As the saying goes, don't let the door hit you...

twinkyz1979 said:
IAs for the 4G not being enabled withing 90 days like it was promised we should get something in return for being lied to
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How do you figure we're being "lied to"? The parts just ain't there yet- they didn't even- for whatever reason- pass FCC approval 'till very recently, and you're not gonna put an uncertified part on the air unless you wanna get your butt reamed by the Government (i.e., it wasn't gonna happen any sooner).
I'm sure there's some sound technical reasons the Mobicom/Sierra Wireless/etc. cards aren't/weren't ready yet, and considering how new LTE is, and how much battery the technology can gobble up if not properly optimized (and I can only imagine how much *****ing and moaning there WILL be when we finally do get the LTE upgrade ) I think we all should chill a little and be more patient.

kcrudup said:
I think we all should chill a little and be more patient.
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Considering the obvious incompetence of Motorola promptly fulfilling their obligations to Xoom owners, I think "we all" have paid for the right to no longer be patient with Motorola or its apologists.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

kurttrail said:
Considering the obvious incompetence of Motorola promptly fulfilling their obligations to Xoom owners
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So, you didn't read a thing I wrote. Gotcha.

best way to say it...hardware is fine, unfortunatly the software still needs fine tuning, i have no problem with asny of this, imaginw a product that was perfect out of the box...hmmm then that would be no fun...well i can think of one that works perfect, a piece of paper and a crayon

kcrudup said:
So, you didn't read a thing I wrote. Gotcha.
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I read your BS excuses and so many other excuses for over 3 months now, and the time where excuses matter is done.
Xoom is still a work-in-progress.
The Bionic went back to the drawing board.
Motorola announces Blur will now nag users about non-Motorola apps battery usage, which is hysterical, since the best battery savings move I ever made on an Android phone is putting a ROM with Blur removed on my Droid 2.
Meanwhile LG and Samsung both have LTE phones, and it's looking more and more likely that Samsung will have the first LTE Tablet.
Not to mention that Asus and xda both beat Motorola to getting a working SD card reader.
Sorry, but Motorola's incompetence is plainly seen, when not seen through the rose-tinted glasses of fanboyism.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

kurttrail said:
I read your BS excuses and so many other excuses for over 3 months now, and the time where excuses matter is done.
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Unh ... huh. So, you're blaming Moto 'cause their supplier didn't have the LTE parts ready yet for ANYONE- not me, you, or Sanjay Jha himself- to install.
OK.

kcrudup said:
How do you figure we're being "lied to"? The parts just ain't there yet- they didn't even- for whatever reason- pass FCC approval 'till very recently, and you're not gonna put an uncertified part on the air unless you wanna get your butt reamed by the Government (i.e., it wasn't gonna happen any sooner).
I'm sure there's some sound technical reasons the Mobicom/Sierra Wireless/etc. cards aren't/weren't ready yet, and considering how new LTE is, and how much battery the technology can gobble up if not properly optimized (and I can only imagine how much *****ing and moaning there WILL be when we finally do get the LTE upgrade ) I think we all should chill a little and be more patient.
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Do you know for certain the LTE card that passed FCC certification last month is destined for the Xoom?
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

well if you are so dissapointed get another device and i would be happy to take youre peice of "junk" off your hands...offer $50 + P&H

I feel like at&t doesn't actually want me to upgrade.

Lg Optimus G - Locked bootloader
Htc One X+ - Locked bootloader.
Galaxy note II - Out of my price/size range regardless of bootloader.
Xperia TL- Locked bootloader
Galaxy S3 - may grab but, not really thrilled about it like I would have been a few months back.
Nexus 4 - not paying 400$+ for 16 gb of memory and lack of LTE.
I really don't feel like I'm being *that* picky with what I want... Dev Support, better battery life than my captivate, a nice (preferably ips) screen. Either 32 gigs of memory or expandable storage.. and ideally LTE.
Anyone else out there feel kinda like they don't have any "real" options for their next device? I'm stuck on a family plan at the moment and feel like at&t is trolling me to be quite honest.

I feel the same here. I'm not upgrading anytime soon at all. My s2 should last me until I find a good fit for me.
Sent from my SII(i777) SuperNexus 4.1.2 10/17/12 build

Shawn said:
I feel the same here. I'm not upgrading anytime soon at all. My s2 should last me until I find a good fit for me.
Sent from my SII(i777) SuperNexus 4.1.2 10/17/12 build
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It's a real shame too. There are a lot of nice phones being locked down for no real clear cut reason.
I mean I understand that they will sell regardless of whether or not I buy any given phone.. but, it just seems like a waste of their time/energy to lock up a phone when all it does is discourage users from upgrading.

Snow_fox said:
.. but, it just seems like a waste of their time/energy to lock up a phone when all it does is discourage users from upgrading.
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People like us are not the norm. Probably an iOS fart app has more downloads than the xda android app. The people who are being discouraged essentially don't exist to them.

post-mortem said:
People like us are not the norm. Probably an iOS fart app has more downloads than the xda android app. The people who are being discouraged essentially don't exist to them.
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While you are probably right on both accounts... I do think it's incredibly sad on all accounts.
They
A. spend money to lock down the bootloader. Even if it's not a lot it's still money.
B. Loose out on customers like me and you and the few who refuse to buy anything that won't get ROM updates for 2 years.
It's spending money to lose money for no real good reason. And while you're right, we don't exist to them in a lot of ways.. they still look for every possible way to get in our pocket and want every dime we have.

Snow_fox said:
While you are probably right on both accounts... I do think it's incredibly sad on all accounts.
They
A. spend money to lock down the bootloader. Even if it's not a lot it's still money.
B. Loose out on customers like me and you and the few who refuse to buy anything that won't get ROM updates for 2 years.
It's spending money to lose money for no real good reason. And while you're right, we don't exist to them in a lot of ways.. they still look for every possible way to get in our pocket and want every dime we have.
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A. is not necessarily true, because I'm pretty sure they hand out free phones to people who come in with their Android device "that just happened to shut off on them one day." Locking the bootloader cuts down on these numbers and saves them money in the long run.
Either way, AT&T has pretty much super phones from every major Android manufacterer, so you might want to take advantage of that. Also, the Galaxy S3 is a few months old - so what? Why is that impacting your decision on getting it? If I may, #firstworldproblems. I say go for it with incredible development support since that really appears to be the most open.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

Also not upgrading anytime soon, but for another reason. As it turns out, I went through 3 devices from sept 2011 thru 0ct 2012.
But yes, nothing coming out appeals to me. I fear the new nexus will be too massive for me, and I don't want any mfg/carrier controlled device.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

gagdude said:
A. is not necessarily true, because I'm pretty sure they hand out free phones to people who come in with their Android device "that just happened to shut off on them one day." Locking the bootloader cuts down on these numbers and saves them money in the long run.
Either way, AT&T has pretty much super phones from every major Android manufacterer, so you might want to take advantage of that. Also, the Galaxy S3 is a few months old - so what? Why is that impacting your decision on getting it? If I may, #firstworldproblems. I say go for it with incredible development support since that really appears to be the most open.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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There are a number of phones out there that are incredibly hard to brick past the point of repair.
"Average Joe" is going to be scared off by the possibility of a voided warranty and having to do anything requiring any level of technical skill. I don't really think locking down the bootloader saves them nearly as much money as they would like to believe. People are either going to be scared off and not mess with it, or they are going to be angry at you for not fully supporting your phone in any way shape or form.
You also say AT&T has super phones from every major manufacturer, yet the only one you listed with an unlocked bootloader/ample dev support is the S3.. I hardly think that qualifies as a serious or decent selection of "super phones" to pick from. Unless you mean "they have a bunch of phones that will be dropped in terms of support after 6 months."
And you can #firstworldproblem all day long. You're on the internet. The fact that we are even discussing this on the internet means it's a pretty high chance of being a first world issue. Being completely blunt, if you were to argue it's not even a problem I wouldn't really disagree because, quite frankly it's a luxury device and not a lack of water needed for survival.
On the flip side, if you are going to choose to discuss an issue, why not keep it relevant? Even if it is non-existent in scale as far as problems go, we can still discuss whatever we want last I checked.

jordanishere said:
Also not upgrading anytime soon, but for another reason. As it turns out, I went through 3 devices from sept 2011 thru 0ct 2012.
But yes, nothing coming out appeals to me. I fear the new nexus will be too massive for me, and I don't want any mfg/carrier controlled device.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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It's my understanding the new nexus will be about the same size as the Gnex or AFAIK it is.
I don't care if it has carrier branding, I just want the ability to install the latest version of Cyanogen until I'm eligible for a new device.

Snow_fox said:
There are a number of phones out there that are incredibly hard to brick past the point of repair.
"Average Joe" is going to be scared off by the possibility of a voided warranty and having to do anything requiring any level of technical skill. I don't really think locking down the bootloader saves them nearly as much money as they would like to believe. People are either going to be scared off and not mess with it, or they are going to be angry at you for not fully supporting your phone in any way shape or form.
You also say AT&T has super phones from every major manufacturer, yet the only one you listed with an unlocked bootloader/ample dev support is the S3.. I hardly think that qualifies as a serious or decent selection of "super phones" to pick from. Unless you mean "they have a bunch of phones that will be dropped in terms of support after 6 months."
And you can #firstworldproblem all day long. You're on the internet. The fact that we are even discussing this on the internet means it's a pretty high chance of being a first world issue. Being completely blunt, if you were to argue it's not even a problem I wouldn't really disagree because, quite frankly it's a luxury device and not a lack of water needed for survival.
On the flip side, if you are going to choose to discuss an issue, why not keep it relevant? Even if it is non-existent in scale as far as problems go, we can still discuss whatever we want last I checked.
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Dude.. please. Chillax. I'm not arguing with you, simply stating my thoughts. No need to get aggrivated
I'm letting you discuss... when did I say you couldn't.....? I have my $.02 too, though.
By the way, when I said #firstworldproblems it was meant as a joke, not as an insult. I have them too, you know
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

gagdude said:
Dude.. please. Chillax. I'm not arguing with you, simply stating my thoughts. No need to get aggrivated
I'm letting you discuss... when did I say you couldn't.....? I have my $.02 too, though.
By the way, when I said #firstworldproblems it was meant as a joke, not as an insult. I have them too, you know
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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I am not aggro'd just discussing for the most part.
I more went off on a tanget and never reigned in the train of thought.

Snow_fox said:
I am not aggro'd just discussing for the most part.
I more went off on a tanget and never reigned in the train of thought.
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Sorry mate, it just seemed like you got angry at me.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

gagdude said:
Sorry mate, it just seemed like you got angry at me.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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Oh no, I just have adhd tendencies like rambling.
At any rate, I am really hoping LG decides to throw out some way to unlock the bootloader. I'd really love to have a quad core device with an IPS display this time around.
I don't have anything against the SAMOLED displays but, I would personally prefer a sharper image to a more saturated image.

AT&T Atrix 4g user here...having a tough time deciding what to upgrade to as well. I've toyed with the idea of the One X and the SGS3 but neither excites me too much. Optimus G is very temping from a hardware perspective, but LG's lack of update support and a locked bootloader are a real put off. Will probably just end up grabbing an sgs3 because it will have the most rom support of any at&t phone.
I would prefer a nexus...but I just can't afford to spend $350+ on a phone.

My family plan on AT&T is breaking up. I've decided to go T mobile prepaid with the new Nexus, my dad, getting a job at US Cellular, will get a free plan there along with a $200 discount (he chose the S2) and my mom is sticking with AT&T for the iphone 5
Well good riddance, I had no service in various parts of school and at the local mall
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

jhotmann said:
AT&T Atrix 4g user here...having a tough time deciding what to upgrade to as well. I've toyed with the idea of the One X and the SGS3 but neither excites me too much. Optimus G is very temping from a hardware perspective, but LG's lack of update support and a locked bootloader are a real put off. Will probably just end up grabbing an sgs3 because it will have the most rom support of any at&t phone.
I would prefer a nexus...but I just can't afford to spend $350+ on a phone.
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I would wait for a little while at least and see if the Optimus G gets an unlocked bootloader.. it would be godmode then. But, I have to wait till Dec 1st anyway.
gagdude said:
My family plan on AT&T is breaking up. I've decided to go T mobile prepaid with the new Nexus, my dad, getting a job at US Cellular, will get a free plan there along with a $200 discount (he chose the S2) and my mom is sticking with AT&T for the iphone 5
Well good riddance, I had no service in various parts of school and at the local mall
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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Not entirely a bad thing.. Tmo has great selection of phones and AFAIK is a little more open with bootloaders and stuff.

I'm only getting the Nexus 4 because my current phone is pretty beaten and battered by now. (not to mention 2 years old)

.