Database Users

[Q] Why have things been so quiet on the dev front?

Why have things been so quiet on the dev front lately?
There was an initial flurry of activity, and most of the big ticket items were taken care of like rooting, sideloading, enabling tethering, webtop hacks, HDMI mirroring, etc. Thanks to DG and the other devs for that!
However, afaik we've only got 2 ROMs so far. I was hoping to join in the dev community when I get the time, but there doesn't seem to be much of one anymore.
Other moto devices with locked bootloaders do have significantly more activity. I'm tempted to jump ship to the Verizon Thunderbolt now... pity because I really like the Atrix despite it's locked bootloader.
(I don't mean to disparage the work done so far... I realize that one of the reasons activity has slowed down is because the big ticket items have been taken care of

Like I've stated in another post in a different thread. Without an unlocked bootloader, you're going to be hearing crickets in these forums soon, as peoples 30 day trial periods are soon coming up. Sure not everyone is returning it but no dev support means a dead device for those of us that want custom roms. There is nothing more to say. If for some off chance the bootloader becomes unlocked you can always buy it again if you still want to support motorola. But don't keep this device based on hope. Accept that moto screwed you and return it while you still can. I am 7 days to go...

No, I'm not keeping it based on hope. I want to keep it because I really like the form factor of the phone as well as its resolution and battery life. I also wanted a phone with HDMI out.
You don't need a custom kernel to have a ROM - sure that imposes limitations on what you can do. In fact, the GingerBlur ROM proved that you can get some enhancements of newer Android releases without changing the kernel.
I can understand though that fewer DEVs would be motivated to work on a phone with a locked/signed bootloader. However, the Droid X forums seem to be pretty active...

i too am a little disappointed at the shrinking dev base - i've seen some leave. however of AT&T android phones, regardless of the software this one appeals to me the most for its form factor/size (i wanted 4" over 4.3"), front-camera and color (all black). the HDMI out (+enabled webtop) is nice too, along with the screen resolution.

'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
Well, I'm sticking with it regardless. I got it on launch day and I plan to enjoy it to the fullest.
The tegra 2 game that I want isn't even out yet.

NoNameAtAll said:
'Tis a shame. From what I've been hearing, the Atrix was a sales flop. So much wasted potential.
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Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!

professor_chaos said:
Maybe this'll be a lesson for Motorola and they might decide to unlock the bootloader after all. I'm this close to jumping ship to the HTC Thunderbolt... I'll probably be grandfathered into their unlimited plan for the foreseeable future.
I tried to get ATT to give me an additional GB by threatening to switch to Verizon, but all they gave me was crappy $25 credit. **** Motorola and **** ATT!!
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I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.

I just found out that DG has left us... this totally blows, though at least Kenneth is still working on the GingerBlur ROM.

eallan said:
I just bought a thunderbolt. Patiently awaiting its arrival.
Screw moto.
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Did just that and never looked back. LTE Blows at&t out the water where I live and even tough single core...it feels just as fast.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

It does suck we have one person creating roms. Ken is doing an amazing job but only one man can only do so much. I feel that if more devs were here creating roms people would stick around. I plan on keeping mine for awhile since I bought it outright...I'm due for an upgrade soon so well see.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.

It's not the devs fault that Moto screwed them, most folks got it on the hint that moto had changed for the better and was going to make the bootloader open.
I can't blame the folks for taking them back.
Hell I have a Captivate, Hardware outstanding ( just like the Atrix, ok minus the GPS ) Software flat out sucks, at least the devs could do something with the Captivate with the open bootloader. It makes it a pretty damn good phone.
Just imagine what could done with the Atrix if the devs could actually do something with it, Kens isn't real happy either as I'm sure his considerable talent is being stifled by Moto, that burns his ass a lot more than folks returning it because moto rammed it home hard.
I'm sitting on couple of upgrades right now and would get the Atrix in a heartbeat IF Moto and ATT would allow it to be open for the devs. In the meantime I'll wait and may switch to Sprint ( even though I've been Orange for over ten years ) for the Evo3d ( think I read somewhere it has Wimax and LTE radios in it ), that thing is looking real nice and about as future proof as it get's in this industry.

Atrix is a bust Motorola really blew it with the locked bootloader. They underestimated the developer communities influence and it's coming back to bite them in their fat greedy ass.

BravoMotorola said:
I'm so mad...these devs see all this negative stuff about how people don't like their Atrix, why the hell WOULD they want to develop for it? Everyone saying "i'm leaving" "returning it" "bought htc (whatever)" doesn't help. Keep it positive at least. Nobody wants to do work for a bunch of winers...
If you're going to return it, keep it to yourself. Nobody cares.
I'm surprised Ken's still working for all of you moaners.
A new rule would be nice, say something useful or don't say anything at all.
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It's not like everyone is saying that. But the ones saying that are really being vocal about it. I don't get all the hate. Phone has not even one month and mostly I see people complaining about the locked bootloader. Eventually, that will get cracked.

Devnant said:
Eventually, that will get cracked.
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such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.

cegna09 said:
such optimism. The droidX has been out how long? That is still locked down nice and good. I know there are differences, but be reasonable here. It would appear MOTO knows what they are doing.
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and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves

live4nyy said:
and at the same time they absolutely have no idea what they are doing to themselves
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i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.

cegna09 said:
i don't believe this statement for a second. I really don't think this phone is being returned in droves by average users.
in the Eyes of Motorola reliability for 90% of users > support of 10% who want to hack. and a locked down phone is much better for reliability.
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Given the specs of this phone and the capabilities I think that the development community represents a higher percentage in the overall buyers base for this phone. Rooting and custom ROMs are becoming more "fashionable" to average users. I'm not saying that there will be an immediate impact within the lifespan of this phone but if Moto continues these methods it will turn around to bite them

look at the other dual core tegra phone(optimus 2x). the devs and the the people there seems to be really happy with their phone now that clockwordmod is available and some custom kernels are already taking into place(optimus 2x is not yet release here in US and some part of europe)
so i think the locked bootloader is one of the major culprit why most devs are leaving atrix and so are some people who wants custom roms for their phone. its a big disppointment really, moto and at&t are [insert word here]
its a good phone but motorola is acting like apple.

Some sad news on XOOM

So Koush on twitter just announced he is returning his xoom.
which ****en sucks, i hope he is kind enough to give us RM when the sdcard is supported.
and also reports all over the net today say the motorola will stop production on xooms in June...OF THIS YEAR
this all kinda sucks in the eyes of consumers (me + you) for software developers and even accessories. I dont know, maybe im kinda freaking but, it looks as though the motorola xoom is the nexus one of android tablets....i just hope it stays that way in the dev world.

Today seems to be a dark day for the Xoom community as well. All these bad news about the end of production, people canceling Xoom orders for the new G-Tab, now Koush leaving. But life goes on and I love my Xoom! After all, the Xoom is just the vessel for Honeycomb, isn't it? And as long as the bee lives we'll be supported by great developers

Hey Honestly,
Koush is a cool guy and he holds a ton of weight in the android community and I personally respect him and his talent, that being said I could give 2 ****s about what he or anyone else buys, never buys, or returns, and so should everyone else.
Personally the Xoom does what I need it to, and I like it. Some people will feel the same way about the Ipad 2, some people feel the same way about the galaxy tab, and some people feel the same way about Cheese. Out of all of us whos right? Every single one
If you like the Xoom be happy with it, if not return it. Simple as that. My only request is you dont post on here about how awsome your new device is because honestly you can go post that in the forum of the new device and it will not make people angry or sound like your gloating
The Xoom is the Nexus One of the Tab community, because with all of these new devices coming out who knows how much bloat ware or sense or blur or other crap they will have on them. Samsung for one does a totally steller job of providing updates for their devices (thats sarcasm) so I wouldn’t buy anything from them, but again this is my opinion, and someone may totally love their devices and want to catch them all (just like the pokemon) .
As for Motorola, what they’re doing is pretty standard. Think about it they probably have been producing units since Jan possibly even December for a early march release, a 6 month production run in a market where every week a newer shinnier toy comes out I feel is pretty standard.
Thats all just my opinion hope it makes you feel a little better tho And in the great words of Bob Marley, dont worry be happy

dudeimgeorge said:
and also reports all over the net today say the motorola will stop production on xooms in June...OF THIS YEAR
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Honestly, I doubt this is completely true. It just says that they are stepping down production, and with good reason.
Things like this happen all the time in industry. You build 1 million devices, and then you use your manufacturing capabilities to build other things while you sell down the inventory, then you start pushing out units again once you get to another level.
All this means is that they are selling alot less than they are making, which may or may not change when the wifi version is released.

Squeak22 said:
Honestly, I doubt this is completely true. It just says that they are stepping down production, and with good reason.
Things like this happen all the time in industry. You build 1 million devices, and then you use your manufacturing capabilities to build other things while you sell down the inventory, then you start pushing out units again once you get to another level.
All this means is that they are selling alot less than they are making, which may or may not change when the wifi version is released.
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Wifi will give a price point that more people can agree with.
I'm anxiously awaiting my Wifi order to ship from Amazon.

Motorola showed us in the past that if they don't make money with their device, they quickly stop to support it.
Knowing the Xoom is running on an early version of Honeycomb, this doesn't look good at all...Makes me want to cancel my preorder actually...
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App

I really don't care what koush buys, he bought and sold the galaxy tab 7" in the same amount of time.
If he really cared about the xda community his bootloader would be open source...if he stops making it someone will step in and make one.
Edit: I know he does open source the code, but I'm unsure if the xoom support is in there.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

I just got my xoom for the GPS maps and the turn by turn directions. It works good for that so Im keeping mine!

This is really one of the major downsides of the Internet. It used to be that somebody could have a knee-jerk reaction to something, but by the time it filtered through editors, producers, etc., and into the print and publication media it had already been toned down and made far more realistic.
Nowadays, somebody misunderstands or misquotes something, and five minutes later it's believed as fact by the majority of the population, which has been conditioned to get information in tiny little chunks without any appreciation for context.

lifegear said:
Motorola showed us in the past that if they don't make money with their device, they quickly stop to support it.
Knowing the Xoom is running on an early version of Honeycomb, this doesn't look good at all...Makes me want to cancel my preorder actually...
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
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Oh please, the OG Droid got an update the other day didn't it? Our xooms are unlocked and unmodified to such a degree that we will be able to create roms from the 3.0 source code without any issue.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

Bauxite said:
I really don't care what koush buys, he bought and sold the galaxy tab 7" in the same amount of time.
If he really cared about the xda community his bootloader would be open source...if he stops making it someone will step in and make one.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
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I thought his bootloader was open source? Wasnt that the origional reason it was created as opposed to Amon_RA? Or do I have it backwards?

jvward said:
And in the great words of Bob Marley, dont worry be happy
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Wasn't that Bobby McFerrin?

funnycreature said:
Wasn't that Bobby McFerrin?
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Yep it was, its been a long day and I am tired

jvward said:
I thought his bootloader was open source? Wasnt that the origional reason it was created as opposed to Amon_RA? Or do I have it backwards?
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Whether or not he pushed the code for the xoom is the issue right now.

All I know is Amazon needs to ship it already!

mikejet said:
All I know is Amazon needs to ship it already!
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This development might put the remaing xooms in high demand. Whatever happens I bet they will sell out FAST!. I am glad I allready have 2 of them in my home!. You know what they say..... a bird in the hand is worth 2 xooms on pre order at Amazon! LOL

i FREAKING LOVE my xoom. I have an ipad that also and I never touch it. Go android!!!

android ftw yo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTUwqxHpXMY

i love my xoom too and im pretty content with it. i sold my ipad, two weeks before the announcement of the ipad 2 (robbed the dude on craigslist)
my main concern at this point, and i think its to a certain degree, paranoia, that the pushing up updates, dev community mods and improvements all together will be few and far between.
after typing that i realize thats nonsense, motorola sliced off at least 1-2months of shipping delays by delaying adobe, the sdcard and the 4g...just to be ahead of the pack.
whether that option was smart in the longrun is a question for the finance people. but as a android geek im good with that, just as long as developers (like koush) still have at it.

Thank god Moto priced the Xoom so high that I(and other sane people) got the ipad 2. At least I know that Apple wont just drop their product like that less than 6 months after release.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Goodbye Moto, you suck & I hope we never meet again

I took delivery of my UK Xoom 3G on 2 May 2011 and fell in love with it. I knew it had bugs but I still loved it because love is blind.
I knew updates would come....I had a Google Experience Device so I just knew I wouldn't be left with a crippled device, so I kept on loving it.
Then 3.1 was released in the US. EXCELLENT I thought, in a couple of weeks we in the UK would also be shown some love by the mighty Motorola. It never came.
Other devices came late to the party and were given these mysterious software updates, my friends mocked me and my wife pleaded with me to get an iPad which would show me the same amount of love as I would give it, but I kept faith...I loved my Xoom you see.
Its now June 19th and Motorola have abandoned me, they refuse to talk to me and refuse to love me back, my poor beautifully built Xoom sits there happily force closing at every opportunity and I sit here pondering how my investment so full of promise has become a mere missed opportunity. How sad....Some relationships aren't meant to be and I for one will now be looking for a divorce. Bye Moto, I hope you can live with yourself
Sent from my Motorola Xoom 3G (now on Ebay)

I have a bit the same feelings like you...! I like my xoom really, but it piss me off that the NEW update policy of google only works in US well! Thats unfair, and this is one point why i would go to apple! Yes i have a lot of rules and things what i CANT do but i get allways software updates, for the next 2years / generations. And everyone gets the updates at the same time...!
And to Moto, Motorola should push google to deliver more update or make it like samsung to update apps over the market!!
For me at the moment, it was my first Moto device and the last one, maybee the last android...

I hoped you signed the petition floating around in here!!

Hay can you send it too me I would love to have a second Xoom. I see your selling it, oh well. Sounded like you should throw it in the garbage as bad as it is.
Edit:
My device works perfect I rarely if ever get FCs. My ***** is LTE. I understand that I am one of the very, very few whos device works perfectly. I don't know maybe its the user.

zone23 said:
Hay can you send it too me I would love to have a second Xoom. I see your selling it, oh well. Sounded like you should throw it in the garbage as bad as it is.
Edit:
My device works perfect I rarely if ever get FCs. My ***** is LTE. I understand that I am one of the very, very few whos device works perfectly. I don't know maybe its the user.
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You're also in the US. Where we got the 3.1 update. So ours is working better than theirs.

csseale said:
I hoped you signed the petition floating around in here!!
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I have indeed signed the petition (74th signature) on there. Lets hope it makes a difference although I fear it won't

zone23 said:
Hay can you send it too me I would love to have a second Xoom. I see your selling it, oh well. Sounded like you should throw it in the garbage as bad as it is.
Edit:
My device works perfect I rarely if ever get FCs. My ***** is LTE. I understand that I am one of the very, very few whos device works perfectly. I don't know maybe its the user.
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Yes mate spot on its me the user who is at fault, I also take responsibility for the unfinished OS Google allowed to be released and the lack of any updates outside of the US ruining my experience with this device! All my fault

andyiacovou said:
I have indeed signed the petition (74th signature) on there. Lets hope it makes a difference although I fear it won't
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But at least they SEE

andyiacovou said:
Yes mate spot on its me the user who is at fault, I also take responsibility for the unfinished OS Google allowed to be released and the lack of any updates outside of the US ruining my experience with this device! All my fault
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I knew you were going to take it that way because that's how people think. I was referring to me overclocking, unlocking and rooting. Having a device that I can play with and not one locked down. Thats what I mean by the user.
Let me ask you this:
Do you have an Android phone?

Let me also add this:
If you would have said that you were going to a Transformer or a HTC View then I would have thought it was the device. Instead you said a iPad which means its the operating system and using the device that you don't like. Maybe your Xoom is defective. Did you try getting it replaced?

zone23 said:
I knew you were going to take it that way because that's how people think. I was referring to me overclocking, unlocking and rooting. Having a device that I can play with and not one locked down. Thats what I mean by the user.
Let me ask you this:
Do you have an Android phone?
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Yes I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 and its amazing. I also had a Dell Streak 5 and a Galaxy Tab (original) so am very used to the Android OS. I did not say I was getting an Ipad, I said my missus wants me to get one because she feels its the best available 10" finished tablet solution at the moment....
I have considered the Asus Transformer but I need 3G and a 3G version is not available yet. The Galaxy 10.1 is also not yet available in the UK. I do not feel confident rooting and installing custom ROM's and to be honest I shouldn't have to go down this route to get a working product, especially one which cost me £580

andyiacovou said:
Yes I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 and its amazing. I also had a Dell Streak 5 and a Galaxy Tab (original) so am very used to the Android OS. I did not say I was getting an Ipad, I said my missus wants me to get one because she feels its the best available 10" finished tablet solution at the moment....
I have considered the Asus Transformer but I need 3G and a 3G version is not available yet. The Galaxy 10.1 is also not yet available in the UK. I do not feel confident rooting and installing custom ROM's and to be honest I shouldn't have to go down this route to get a working product, especially one which cost me £580
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Ya it sucks that other country versions of the Xoom suck so bad that is lame. We don't do apple in our house as a matter of fact we don't even speak of it. Also I did not root to fix problems I root so I can overclock and backup my device. So basically you bring that baby home turn it on and its FC city, wow.

If you like your Xoom so much why havent you done what lots of others have done, Root it and Load the US Version, I have to say though its still not perfect.. There are no good Office apps out there so its far from being capable of being used for business. Facebook App force closes quite regularly, the mail app looks a bit mickey mouse and basic. What I wouldnt give for Thunderbird and Open Office on it!!!..

Non-US Xoom is not Google Experience device, thats what I read in many Xoom forum posts. So, thats why you dont get update directly from Google. I read from Moto forums that it will be updated in couple of months.
Granted, thats not good enough. Couple of months is way too long.

gogol said:
Non-US Xoom is not Google Experience device, thats what I read in many Xoom forum posts. So, thats why you dont get update directly from Google. I read from Moto forums that it will be updated in couple of months.
Granted, thats not good enough. Couple of months is way too long.
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If i'd known on the 2nd May that it's wasn't a GED and updates would be this slow, I probably wouldn't have purchased it. I don't think anyone knew at that point!
People keep telling me to root and flash US ROM, but as well as losing my 3g and voiding my warranty, I'm not sure I want to risk it and why should I?
Sent from my Xoom 3G

I'd be tempted to mention your dissatisfaction on the Motorola Facebook page too. Perhaps a little naming and shaming will push them a little harder, other than that, it may give other prospective European customers a little insight into the current support situation?
http://www.facebook.com/motorolaeurope

hey you guys I just popped in here from the transformer forum, I would think that google is not at fault with OTA updates only the state of 3.1 at the moment. my transformer was on 3.0 when it arrived on the first of June, and an update was available straight away. Ordered in the UK and shipped to spain. Same with my desire HD quickly updated to gingerbread. Its a Moto Thing.
Just glad Asus have gone down the same route as HTC, Great design and features just need the bugs in honeycomb ironing out now.

Just done mine this afternoon. Now on 3.1 with SD card support and 3G. Like you say though, shame I had to void my warranty in order to get a working device....

It really is a shame that moto has gone down this route of misleading its customers. I have owned a few android devices over the past 2 years from different manufacturers ; however the Xoom is my first device from moto and will most definitely be the last one from them.
The only reason that the US Xoom has gotten the 3.1 update (which isn't perfect, but addresses many of the 3.0 glitches) is because its backed by Google (GED)
Many many people outside the US have bought the Xoom fully expecting it to be a GED and rightfully so. Seems that once moto got their money the relationship was promptly ended.
I'm not sure if this applies to you, but over here, the Xoom does NOT come with the Google logo on the back.. this seems to be the indicator as to whether or not its a GE.

mickgeorge said:
Just done mine this afternoon. Now on 3.1 with SD card support and 3G. Like you say though, shame I had to void my warranty in order to get a working device....
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What I really need is a simple step by step guide to rooting, flashing the US ROM and get my 3g working. Sounds a lot to ask but if anyone can help I would be really grateful and might convince me to keep it.
I've looked at some of the threads in the development section but they are a little complicated to follow
Sent from my Xoom 3G

Motorola Mobility reports $56 million net loss

http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/28/motorola-mobility-reports-56-million-net-loss-in-q2-3-3-billi/
didn't see this coming

cpam said:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/28/motorola-mobility-reports-56-million-net-loss-in-q2-3-3-billi/
didn't see this coming
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And this is a good thing, why?

did I say that is good?

cpam said:
did I say that is good?
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Why the smilies? Lol kind of missleading
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

okantomi said:
And this is a good thing, why?
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Because they are a horribly run company. So its good because although not much of a loss any loss shows things need to change. Although I will never purchase another moto product if I can help it for those that will maybe it will force some sort of change

csseale said:
Because they are a horribly run company. So its good because although not much of a loss any loss shows things need to change. Although I will never purchase another moto product if I can help it for those that will maybe it will force some sort of change
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My thoughts are the same. Maybe this will cause the CEO to open his eyes.

BlackDino said:
Why the smilies? Lol kind of missleading
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
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is used for a big Smiley face, but some use it for a shocked face (like the jaw is dropped)
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

okantomi said:
And this is a good thing, why?
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Karma works in this life.
Sent from my Bolt

kurttrail said:
Karma works in this life.
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And if there are no consequences for screwing up, there's no reason to improve.
Of course, the real question is WHY they had a loss. I obviously think they've screwed up plenty of times - see the lack of Euro Xoom updates and locked bootloaders in phones - but it's hard to say how much effect those particular choices had. There are also lots of boring and simple reasons for a loss, like business restructuring or increased product costs.

Motorola was ahead of Apple http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKR_E1 but was never able to make an impact like Apple did. This shows a lack of vision and leadership. The Xoom again is light years ahead of the Ipad in my opinion in terms of HW, but still cannot shake the ipad in terms of market penetration. Last night I was watching the HP tablet add... the key point they made was ..oh we can play flash! sounds silly to us, but my friend (non-geek) was excited saying finally he can watch those foreign language movies on that website which use flash...

Xoom was priced at $600, it did not have a working micro SD solution but now other Android Tablets are coming I think it is kind of late.
For Android in general Motorola has and continues to be too slow releasing upgrades. In Canada in MAY !!! the upgrade to 3.1 !!! is coming soon !!!! it is August. Here is a clue, soon means tomorrow or even later in the week NOT MONTHS !!!! They get Canada 3.1, then so what the latest version is 3.2 it is such a thing that stops any sane person from buying Motorola.
For Android Phones MOTOblur nobody wants it but Motorola

We can't even get 3.2 on our 3g Xoom.....so when ICS comes out we are going to be the last to get it..but this is not just moto Verizon has their hands in that part. But I believe moto should push Verizon if not to just keep us happy but they dont

I think we, by that I mean the XDA and hardware enthusiast, only represent a fraction of Moto's or any other hardware developers sales. The average person probably doesn't realize they haven't received the 3.2 update much less that ICS is in the pike.
Yes I am sure they are aware of us and we are important to them but by no means are we the majority.
When the Xoom finally released Moto was already at work on the next device and the next beyond that.
They don't put much of their resources into supporting a device that has already sold. They want you to buy the next one. Unfortunately building relationships seems to be a thing of the past.
Just my two cents worth.

Sully9663 said:
I think we, by that I mean the XDA and hardware enthusiast, only represent a fraction of Moto's or any other hardware developers sales. The average person probably doesn't realize they haven't received the 3.2 update much less that ICS is in the pike.
Yes I am sure they are aware of us and we are important to them but by no means are we the majority.
When the Xoom finally released Moto was already at work on the next device and the next beyond that.
They don't put much of their resources into supporting a device that has already sold. They want you to buy the next one. Unfortunately building relationships seems to be a thing of the past.
Just my two cents worth.
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Very very well put....thank you

I feel like at&t doesn't actually want me to upgrade.

Lg Optimus G - Locked bootloader
Htc One X+ - Locked bootloader.
Galaxy note II - Out of my price/size range regardless of bootloader.
Xperia TL- Locked bootloader
Galaxy S3 - may grab but, not really thrilled about it like I would have been a few months back.
Nexus 4 - not paying 400$+ for 16 gb of memory and lack of LTE.
I really don't feel like I'm being *that* picky with what I want... Dev Support, better battery life than my captivate, a nice (preferably ips) screen. Either 32 gigs of memory or expandable storage.. and ideally LTE.
Anyone else out there feel kinda like they don't have any "real" options for their next device? I'm stuck on a family plan at the moment and feel like at&t is trolling me to be quite honest.

I feel the same here. I'm not upgrading anytime soon at all. My s2 should last me until I find a good fit for me.
Sent from my SII(i777) SuperNexus 4.1.2 10/17/12 build

Shawn said:
I feel the same here. I'm not upgrading anytime soon at all. My s2 should last me until I find a good fit for me.
Sent from my SII(i777) SuperNexus 4.1.2 10/17/12 build
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It's a real shame too. There are a lot of nice phones being locked down for no real clear cut reason.
I mean I understand that they will sell regardless of whether or not I buy any given phone.. but, it just seems like a waste of their time/energy to lock up a phone when all it does is discourage users from upgrading.

Snow_fox said:
.. but, it just seems like a waste of their time/energy to lock up a phone when all it does is discourage users from upgrading.
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People like us are not the norm. Probably an iOS fart app has more downloads than the xda android app. The people who are being discouraged essentially don't exist to them.

post-mortem said:
People like us are not the norm. Probably an iOS fart app has more downloads than the xda android app. The people who are being discouraged essentially don't exist to them.
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While you are probably right on both accounts... I do think it's incredibly sad on all accounts.
They
A. spend money to lock down the bootloader. Even if it's not a lot it's still money.
B. Loose out on customers like me and you and the few who refuse to buy anything that won't get ROM updates for 2 years.
It's spending money to lose money for no real good reason. And while you're right, we don't exist to them in a lot of ways.. they still look for every possible way to get in our pocket and want every dime we have.

Snow_fox said:
While you are probably right on both accounts... I do think it's incredibly sad on all accounts.
They
A. spend money to lock down the bootloader. Even if it's not a lot it's still money.
B. Loose out on customers like me and you and the few who refuse to buy anything that won't get ROM updates for 2 years.
It's spending money to lose money for no real good reason. And while you're right, we don't exist to them in a lot of ways.. they still look for every possible way to get in our pocket and want every dime we have.
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A. is not necessarily true, because I'm pretty sure they hand out free phones to people who come in with their Android device "that just happened to shut off on them one day." Locking the bootloader cuts down on these numbers and saves them money in the long run.
Either way, AT&T has pretty much super phones from every major Android manufacterer, so you might want to take advantage of that. Also, the Galaxy S3 is a few months old - so what? Why is that impacting your decision on getting it? If I may, #firstworldproblems. I say go for it with incredible development support since that really appears to be the most open.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

Also not upgrading anytime soon, but for another reason. As it turns out, I went through 3 devices from sept 2011 thru 0ct 2012.
But yes, nothing coming out appeals to me. I fear the new nexus will be too massive for me, and I don't want any mfg/carrier controlled device.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

gagdude said:
A. is not necessarily true, because I'm pretty sure they hand out free phones to people who come in with their Android device "that just happened to shut off on them one day." Locking the bootloader cuts down on these numbers and saves them money in the long run.
Either way, AT&T has pretty much super phones from every major Android manufacterer, so you might want to take advantage of that. Also, the Galaxy S3 is a few months old - so what? Why is that impacting your decision on getting it? If I may, #firstworldproblems. I say go for it with incredible development support since that really appears to be the most open.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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There are a number of phones out there that are incredibly hard to brick past the point of repair.
"Average Joe" is going to be scared off by the possibility of a voided warranty and having to do anything requiring any level of technical skill. I don't really think locking down the bootloader saves them nearly as much money as they would like to believe. People are either going to be scared off and not mess with it, or they are going to be angry at you for not fully supporting your phone in any way shape or form.
You also say AT&T has super phones from every major manufacturer, yet the only one you listed with an unlocked bootloader/ample dev support is the S3.. I hardly think that qualifies as a serious or decent selection of "super phones" to pick from. Unless you mean "they have a bunch of phones that will be dropped in terms of support after 6 months."
And you can #firstworldproblem all day long. You're on the internet. The fact that we are even discussing this on the internet means it's a pretty high chance of being a first world issue. Being completely blunt, if you were to argue it's not even a problem I wouldn't really disagree because, quite frankly it's a luxury device and not a lack of water needed for survival.
On the flip side, if you are going to choose to discuss an issue, why not keep it relevant? Even if it is non-existent in scale as far as problems go, we can still discuss whatever we want last I checked.

jordanishere said:
Also not upgrading anytime soon, but for another reason. As it turns out, I went through 3 devices from sept 2011 thru 0ct 2012.
But yes, nothing coming out appeals to me. I fear the new nexus will be too massive for me, and I don't want any mfg/carrier controlled device.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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It's my understanding the new nexus will be about the same size as the Gnex or AFAIK it is.
I don't care if it has carrier branding, I just want the ability to install the latest version of Cyanogen until I'm eligible for a new device.

Snow_fox said:
There are a number of phones out there that are incredibly hard to brick past the point of repair.
"Average Joe" is going to be scared off by the possibility of a voided warranty and having to do anything requiring any level of technical skill. I don't really think locking down the bootloader saves them nearly as much money as they would like to believe. People are either going to be scared off and not mess with it, or they are going to be angry at you for not fully supporting your phone in any way shape or form.
You also say AT&T has super phones from every major manufacturer, yet the only one you listed with an unlocked bootloader/ample dev support is the S3.. I hardly think that qualifies as a serious or decent selection of "super phones" to pick from. Unless you mean "they have a bunch of phones that will be dropped in terms of support after 6 months."
And you can #firstworldproblem all day long. You're on the internet. The fact that we are even discussing this on the internet means it's a pretty high chance of being a first world issue. Being completely blunt, if you were to argue it's not even a problem I wouldn't really disagree because, quite frankly it's a luxury device and not a lack of water needed for survival.
On the flip side, if you are going to choose to discuss an issue, why not keep it relevant? Even if it is non-existent in scale as far as problems go, we can still discuss whatever we want last I checked.
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Dude.. please. Chillax. I'm not arguing with you, simply stating my thoughts. No need to get aggrivated
I'm letting you discuss... when did I say you couldn't.....? I have my $.02 too, though.
By the way, when I said #firstworldproblems it was meant as a joke, not as an insult. I have them too, you know
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

gagdude said:
Dude.. please. Chillax. I'm not arguing with you, simply stating my thoughts. No need to get aggrivated
I'm letting you discuss... when did I say you couldn't.....? I have my $.02 too, though.
By the way, when I said #firstworldproblems it was meant as a joke, not as an insult. I have them too, you know
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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I am not aggro'd just discussing for the most part.
I more went off on a tanget and never reigned in the train of thought.

Snow_fox said:
I am not aggro'd just discussing for the most part.
I more went off on a tanget and never reigned in the train of thought.
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Sorry mate, it just seemed like you got angry at me.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

gagdude said:
Sorry mate, it just seemed like you got angry at me.
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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Oh no, I just have adhd tendencies like rambling.
At any rate, I am really hoping LG decides to throw out some way to unlock the bootloader. I'd really love to have a quad core device with an IPS display this time around.
I don't have anything against the SAMOLED displays but, I would personally prefer a sharper image to a more saturated image.

AT&T Atrix 4g user here...having a tough time deciding what to upgrade to as well. I've toyed with the idea of the One X and the SGS3 but neither excites me too much. Optimus G is very temping from a hardware perspective, but LG's lack of update support and a locked bootloader are a real put off. Will probably just end up grabbing an sgs3 because it will have the most rom support of any at&t phone.
I would prefer a nexus...but I just can't afford to spend $350+ on a phone.

My family plan on AT&T is breaking up. I've decided to go T mobile prepaid with the new Nexus, my dad, getting a job at US Cellular, will get a free plan there along with a $200 discount (he chose the S2) and my mom is sticking with AT&T for the iphone 5
Well good riddance, I had no service in various parts of school and at the local mall
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium

jhotmann said:
AT&T Atrix 4g user here...having a tough time deciding what to upgrade to as well. I've toyed with the idea of the One X and the SGS3 but neither excites me too much. Optimus G is very temping from a hardware perspective, but LG's lack of update support and a locked bootloader are a real put off. Will probably just end up grabbing an sgs3 because it will have the most rom support of any at&t phone.
I would prefer a nexus...but I just can't afford to spend $350+ on a phone.
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I would wait for a little while at least and see if the Optimus G gets an unlocked bootloader.. it would be godmode then. But, I have to wait till Dec 1st anyway.
gagdude said:
My family plan on AT&T is breaking up. I've decided to go T mobile prepaid with the new Nexus, my dad, getting a job at US Cellular, will get a free plan there along with a $200 discount (he chose the S2) and my mom is sticking with AT&T for the iphone 5
Well good riddance, I had no service in various parts of school and at the local mall
Sent from my DROID2 using xda premium
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Not entirely a bad thing.. Tmo has great selection of phones and AFAIK is a little more open with bootloaders and stuff.

I'm only getting the Nexus 4 because my current phone is pretty beaten and battered by now. (not to mention 2 years old)

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