So.. what is stopping us from brute forcing the encryption keys on the Atrix? Forgive me if this is ignorant.. but I know of things like [email protected] that utilize a network to work on solving complex things.. The biggest gripe that I have, and I know that a lot of people have, with the Atrix is that it's going to come with the encrypted bootloader (the docks are silly, just get a netbook and tether it after rooting , but thats irrelavent).
I'm sure people would contribute their computers to a cause like this, and with a brute force method between even hundreds of computers looking for an encryption key probably wouldn't take.. that long?
If each phone has a unique encryption key then I guess that this is a useless approach, but I thought I'd throw the idea out.
Joe
There's a project working to crack the keys on the milestone, but it can take a rediculous amount of computing power.
Sent from my Captivate using XDA App
TheEscapist said:
but it can take a rediculous amount of computing power.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And by ridiculous he means years worth of time.
However, don't get depressed, there is a good chance that the Atrix has only a locked and not encrypted bootloader. I wrote a more detailed discussion in this post if you are interested in reading more.
I'm no genius but couldn't XDA develop some sort of distributed computing program and get that done FAST.
I'd leave every computer I had running... GPU's+CPU's that's like 10-20ghz 24hrs a day from just me.
Dumb Idea??
NonovUrbizniz said:
I'm no genius but couldn't XDA develop some sort of distributed computing program and get that done FAST.
I'd leave every computer I had running... GPU's+CPU's that's like 10-20ghz 24hrs a day from just me.
Dumb Idea??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was along the idea that I had (folding at home is a program that distributes the load across a large network of computers). So a "ridiculous amount of time" could be decrypted in just a few days if we got even 100 people to participate. The problem in this case is making an application that would be capable of distributing this load.
However, I guess the most important thing is going to be seeing if the bootloader is encrypted or not..
You guys aren't getting how much time it will really take, they use a 1024bit key, that's enough possibilities to have computers cranking for BILLIONS of YEARS.
I just put 2^1024 into a calculator, divided by 100,000,000,000 for a theoretical 100Tflop supercomputer (pretty easy to do with something like BOINC), and assuming the best case scenario that it will actually test 100 billion keys a second.
Then I divided by 3600 (seconds in an hour), divided again by 24 (hours in a day), divided again by 365 (days in a year)
and ended up with:
156,176,644,814,042,999,149,422,203,351,770,599,516,445,391,302,508,511,493,218,518,829,302,867,438,735,781,097,061,916,038,037,447,110,777,605,658,652,684,262,264,122,384,866,885,440,334,201,600,119,084,711,517,142,307,834,199,910,062,604,876,532,708,949,388,959,330,629,821,630,916,124,690,444,964,365,909,692,174,466,876,583,089,353,285,751,864,871,369,654,465,126,125,462,803,375 years
In short, we need a way to get around the encryption another way, like what happened with the PS3, an error in the implementation, or a leaked key from someone inside motorola.
miztic said:
You guys aren't getting how much time it will really take, they use a 1024bit key, that's enough possibilities to have computers cranking for BILLIONS of YEARS.
I just put 2^1024 into a calculator, divided by 100,000,000,000 for a theoretical 100Tflop supercomputer (pretty easy to do with something like BOINC), and assuming the best case scenario that it will actually test 100 billion keys a second.
Then I divided by 3600 (seconds in an hour), divided again by 24 (hours in a day), divided again by 365 (days in a year)
and ended up with:
156,176,644,814,042,999,149,422,203,351,770,599,516,445,391,302,508,511,493,218,518,829,302,867,438,735,781,097,061,916,038,037,447,110,777,605,658,652,684,262,264,122,384,866,885,440,334,201,600,119,084,711,517,142,307,834,199,910,062,604,876,532,708,949,388,959,330,629,821,630,916,124,690,444,964,365,909,692,174,466,876,583,089,353,285,751,864,871,369,654,465,126,125,462,803,375 years
In short, we need a way to get around the encryption another way, like what happened with the PS3, an error in the implementation, or a leaked key from someone inside motorola.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well ****.
miztic said:
In short, we need a way to get around the encryption another way, like what happened with the PS3, an error in the implementation, or a leaked key from someone inside motorola.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or motorola actually pull a smart one and start some kinda dev program that will let you have the keys after signing some kinda agreement.
They would get massive PR/loyalty points from me if they did something like that, I'd not only be recommending all their stuff to everyone I know, I would never buy anything else as long as they make nice hardware.
Imagine what we could do with these phones without having to waste time getting around the stupid 'locks'.
Are you talking about this eFuse thing? The encrypted bootloader?
That's part of the OMAP-SoC as used in the DroidX.
AFAIK the Tegra does not have this "feature", so the bootloader might be locked, but not encrypted.
TinyRK said:
Are you talking about this eFuse thing? The encrypted bootloader?
That's part of the OMAP-SoC as used in the DroidX.
AFAIK the Tegra does not have this "feature", so the bootloader might be locked, but not encrypted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I heard the same thing. I really we get some confirmation in the next few days.
have you checked the developer category? the atrix was dumped today
miztic said:
You guys aren't getting how much time it will really take, they use a 1024bit key, that's enough possibilities to have computers cranking for BILLIONS of YEARS.
I just put 2^1024 into a calculator, divided by 100,000,000,000 for a theoretical 100Tflop supercomputer (pretty easy to do with something like BOINC), and assuming the best case scenario that it will actually test 100 billion keys a second.
Then I divided by 3600 (seconds in an hour), divided again by 24 (hours in a day), divided again by 365 (days in a year)
and ended up with:
156,176,644,814,042,999,149,422,203,351,770,599,516,445,391,302,508,511,493,218,518,829,302,867,438,735,781,097,061,916,038,037,447,110,777,605,658,652,684,262,264,122,384,866,885,440,334,201,600,119,084,711,517,142,307,834,199,910,062,604,876,532,708,949,388,959,330,629,821,630,916,124,690,444,964,365,909,692,174,466,876,583,089,353,285,751,864,871,369,654,465,126,125,462,803,375 years
In short, we need a way to get around the encryption another way, like what happened with the PS3, an error in the implementation, or a leaked key from someone inside motorola.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're saying there's a chance.
GatorRuss said:
So you're saying there's a chance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol...reminds me of the one in a million chance from dumb and dumber
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
seanfinn said:
Lol...reminds me of the one in a million chance from dumb and dumber
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I was going for.
Its Rooted at least!!! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=960336
Boot loader still locked but...Design Gear was able to extract the kernel and ramdisk from the boot.img __________________
So where does this stand? can we dowload an app to run on our PC's to help contribute some computing power?
Any news if the bootloader is actually encrypted?
Related
so I was just wondering how are we going to alt-s or alt-w our androids now that the new ones wont have physical keyboards.
bmnaccounts said:
so I was just wondering how are we going to alt-s or alt-w our androids now that the new ones wont have physical keyboards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
new recovery images use trackball as well
alapapa said:
new recovery images use trackball as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while this is true. It's not gonna be fun when some of us drop down to a console while in recovery mode. (ie. upgrade_fs for upgrading ext2 -> ext3 on cyan's recovery image
The keyboards are multi-touch on the new model
Lou2serious said:
The keyboards are multi-touch on the new model
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but not in recovery console mode, its gonna suck
dont mean to sound negative... but i read on haykuro's twitter that the Hero has a newer SPL, "perfected" as he calls it, which he says is un-rootable..
we will see how things go with that....
just check the twitter to validate my info
doubleokneegro said:
dont mean to sound negative... but i read on haykuro's twitter that the Hero has a newer SPL, "perfected" as he calls it, which he says is un-rootable..
we will see how things go with that....
just check the twitter to validate my info
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing in unrootable. Maybe it will take longer but I'm pretty sure it will be done. Not taking anything away from Haykuro but yeah nothing is perfect.
bmnaccounts said:
so I was just wondering how are we going to alt-s or alt-w our androids now that the new ones wont have physical keyboards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use the volume keys to select the option on the recovery screen, then press the trackball button to select that option. You can do this on the G1 or myTouch (Magic).
Lou2serious said:
The keyboards are multi-touch on the new model
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
myTouch does not have multi-touch, though with that kind of name you'd expect it to...
i did not know that about the volume keys good to know.
and there is no thing as a pick safe lock, locks are rated it terms of hours. as in how many hours it will take to pick, so it goes with rom's to.
cidica said:
Nothing in unrootable. Maybe it will take longer but I'm pretty sure it will be done. Not taking anything away from Haykuro but yeah nothing is perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read his twitter it says it's not rootable (until further notice).
Also, it's the Hero that has real multi-touch.
cidica said:
Nothing in unrootable. Maybe it will take longer but I'm pretty sure it will be done. Not taking anything away from Haykuro but yeah nothing is perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. Microsoft's 360 console was supposed to be unhackable as well. It didn't take long
we have found a way to hack any and all electronics in existance, the phone is rootable it might just need a newer mind to take a look. people get into their heads that things can only be done a certain way, there is always another way to do it. to name a few
ALL HTC PHONES
Sony PSP
PS3
Xbox 360
iPhone
mac computers
linux computers
windows computers
i don't think i need to go on, everything is hackable and can be messed with, sometimes it just takes a little more work and a different approach.
bmnaccounts said:
i did not know that about the volume keys good to know.
and there is no thing as a pick safe lock, locks are rated it terms of hours. as in how many hours it will take to pick, so it goes with rom's to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... someone's been watching Mythbusters....
-bZj
down8 said:
... someone's been watching Mythbusters....
-bZj
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or it could be that some people have that common knowledge? I knew it from buying a safe.
In any case, it really makes me wonder why phone companies bother with lock downs. Sure, some of the general public won't bother trying, but how much money is invested in locking us from root and then lost when a 16 year old kid cracks it?
KyleK29 said:
Yep. Microsoft's 360 console was supposed to be unhackable as well. It didn't take long
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microshaft doesn't exactly have a strong track record when it comes to security....
Unlike Linux, which Android *IS*.
That being said, rooting ANY Android device is *easy*. Just not necessarily through the conventional back doors.
If you can read and write the chips, you can very easily make any modifications you like into the root filesystem, which can include adding an 'su' command. Only problem with this is that it generally requires a hardware approach, which is beyond the scope of the average user... who probably shouldn't be messing with root anyways.
I do, however, feel a bit of a letdown in this issue though. The unfortunate thing is that the carriers still are trying to call the shots (and generally succeeding due to popular ignorance). I would like to see this change -- there was once a time when you bought your land phone from the phone company and this is not so any more. Right now, most people are still buying their mobile phone from the phone company, even though it isn't necessary. I would definitely like to see more dealers for non-carrier-specific cell phones, and to have them show up in popular places. I would like to see these sold at places like walmart and radio shack so that you can just walk in and buy a phone with no strings attached.
There are a few reasons why I opted for an ADP1...
1) no contract,
2) no controls,
3) no carrier,
I bought it outright, its mine, and I can do what I like with it. People who are interested in the freedom of an unrestricted device should opt for this approach. ADP1 is STILL AVAILABLE, and there is not much about the new devices that improves on it.. sure I admit that having a little more ram would be nice, but the keyboard sure makes up for it. Yes, the majority of devices can be converted into an unrestricted device, but it just isn't right that you would have to hack it.
Sorry for the offtopic, but show me someone booting ISOs on PS3
BolecDST said:
Sorry for the offtopic, but show me someone booting ISOs on PS3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe not ISOs, but it's still been 'hacked' with home-brew firmwares etc.
http://www.ps3-hacks.com/forums/
not exactly
lbcoder said:
Microshaft doesn't exactly have a strong track record when it comes to security....
Unlike Linux, which Android *IS*.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well at the last hacker convention windows vista was not hacked until many third-party apps were involved, linux was hacked long before that. i'm not saying that linux is unsecure because it is very secure in the since that you can't do much if you hack my computer. any real threat would have to have the root password and to get that you would need a keylogger
lbcoder said:
but it just isn't right that you would have to hack it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hacking the phone is half the fun. i get phones that can be hacked just cause i like to see what they can do.
tubaking182 said:
hacking the phone is half the fun. i get phones that can be hacked just cause i like to see what they can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly...trying to get the most out of a phone "IS" the fun part! Why do you think we're all in this forum
tubaking182 said:
well at the last hacker convention windows vista was not hacked until many third-party apps were involved, linux was hacked long before that. i'm not saying that linux is unsecure because it is very secure in the since that you can't do much if you hack my computer. any real threat would have to have the root password and to get that you would need a keylogger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, vista was hacked before it was even released.
And fyi; hacked = got root. Guessing at some user's password doesn't count. Hacking some particular server (i.e. Apache) doesn't count since it is run jailed (unless the admin is an idiot) and therefore won't let you get root. There have been a VERY FEW true root compromises for Linux, each and every one has been patched within hours (if not minutes) of it being identified, and due to the differing culture around linux, it is a matter of extreme pride to publicly identify security issues, i.e. if you legitimately hack linux, you are most likely going to take full credit for it using your REAL NAME and probably even provide a patch at the same time. Hack windoze though and you release under a fake name using a secure proxy in russia or china, otherwise MS will sue your a$$ until you die of starvation either through judgement or through legal expenses.
In Linux, you are a hero for identifying a security hole and helping to bring the whole thing closer to perfection.
In windoze, you are a criminal for pointing out the ineptitude of MS.
I've had the HD2 since November. This forum has been a revelation. But a few hours ago I lost the phone. It's gone for good. No insurance, no location software, unlocked, 16gb sd card. Adios amigo.
Perhaps not my finest hour. Sadly, I wasn't even drunk. Just fell out of my pocket in the taxi cab. It seems some people in Poland aren't that honest. I contacted the actual cab 20min later through the company but it wasn't there.
Anyway, I still consider myself a lucky guy. This was my first foray into the world of smartphones and through an almost free upgrade on t-mobile uk i got the phone for only 100gbp (+40 for the sd card). I bought a few apps and pirated quite a few more, so perhaps this is karma at work.
Writing this is somewhat therapeutic for me but the need to find a replacement is paramount so this also allows all you guys to share your wisdom, if you will..
No other phone matches the HD2 for screen size. It's pure luxury - ok its not AMOLED, but I've looked just now - and AMOLED is maxed at 3.7" - a significant downgrade.
The other issue is the pirating of software. I know it's wrong but I think we can all agree it's the most convenient way to test apps before buying.
However, WMP7S has left me somewhat unimpressed, I think Android is where it's at right now - development is on fire on that platform. Am I wrong? should I wait to see what happens on wm7 - i suspect that would take a year at least
So what are my options? Whichever phone I pick must be supported by XDA.... (I know I don't have many posts yet, but I chose my name for a reason... )
HTC Desire? HTC Bravo? Samsung Pico (Projector phone!!!) What's coming up?
I suspect this is the year of the smartphone and my academic year is almost up so I can perhaps hold off until the summer before buying. (Back to my w810 - still the toughest phone ever built imo)
Thanks for listening and hopefully replying.... time to roll...
All Day On XDA said:
....I... pirated quite a few more (apps)..., ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You absolutely will not win many friends on here with the statement above.
WB
I'm not proud but I'm not rich either - I'm trying to do Med School on the cheap and its not easy. If a simple google search gives me free software, only a fool would say no.
This has only been a brief visit to the Windows platform since Windows 7 came out. For 3 years prior to that I was using linux.
Virtually all the apps I use regularly,eg FPSECE, I paid for the supporter version. There's plenty of programs that don't survive more than 2 weeks.
I apologise to anyone who may feel insulted. My intent is not to steal, but to get value for money.
Is this further weight to switch to Open platforms?
HTC Supersonic
problem solved - just have to wait again
Try out the 'premium features' on htt p://myphone.microsoft.c om/
Lock your phone
Lock your phone so that it cannot be used by anyone else. You can also enter a message to display on your phone's screen to tell the finder how to contact you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's if it can't be found through GPS...
All Day On XDA said:
If a simple google search gives me free software, only a fool would say no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can Google a lot of things. So you should steal them? No need to respond. Just wait 10 years when you have your own medical practice and you start getting people stiffing you on the bill. They probably found your location via Google.
Touche, and a fair point. I wont try to defend piracy with any real heart - I accept it's wrong even if the end justifies the means ('end' being good software, 'means' being fracturing a few rules)
Thanks for the MyPhone tip - I've locked the phone at least.
------------
I had a crack on my screen, it wasn't too bad and I took it to a repair place to get it fixed and they were ummming and arrring about doing it and I took the phone back and on my way across the room I dropped it and the screen shattered completely... aghhhhhhhhhhh
Then I woke up with rapid breathing and the first thing I thought was "oh thank <censored> it was just a dream/nightmare"...
LOL
willgill said:
You can Google a lot of things. So you should steal them? No need to respond. Just wait 10 years when you have your own medical practice and you start getting people stiffing you on the bill. They probably found your location via Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wrong post, sorry......
Starfury said:
I had a crack on my screen, it wasn't too bad and I took it to a repair place to get it fixed and they were ummming and arrring about doing it and I took the phone back and on my way across the room I dropped it and the screen shattered completely... aghhhhhhhhhhh
Then I woke up with rapid breathing and the first thing I thought was "oh thank <censored> it was just a dream/nightmare"...
LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha OMG I also had a nightmare about my phone being damaged some days ago, and just like you when I woke up I thanked the lords
We are so obsessed xD
Okay guys so we know all attempts at hacking the bootloader to circumvent the efuse hasn't worked. I feel that the only way to crack this thing open is with the keys from MOTO. Its a slim chance it will actually work but if enough people complain and flood their inboxes somethings bound to happen. maybe. hopefully. Well I sent in an email to tech support and got a cookie cutter response that you can see below. I then was playing around with possible email addresses for the Co-CEO Greg brown I finally landed on his email with the help of someone else and his email is [email protected] I sent him an email to which he forwarded to a PR person I'm guessing and got a cookie cutter response. This pisses me off. Let's do something about it. Everyone send your emails to to that guy requesting the keys. Make the subjects not all locked bootloader or he won't even look at them I'm guessing. This is ridiculous and we need to take a stand. If you don't like the idea then that's fine but to everyone else send an email.
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 2:30 PM
To: Brown Greg Pres CEO-CGB025
Subject: locked bootloader
Greg,
Please provide me with the keys to my phone. I purchased this phone and I should be able to do what I want with it. How would you like it if you purchased a car and the dealership put a lock on the hood not allowing you to access the engine. You would then have to go to that dealership each time you wanted anything done even though you are a mechanic yourself. This is exactly what is happening here. I'm tired of you guys locking down devices that a consumer has purchased. If I should so choose to do stuff that would violate warranties then that's all on me. You can reply with the keys.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their reply
Thank you for contacting Motorola. Your e-mail below was forwarded to me to address for Mr. Brown.
Motorola's primary focus is the security of our end users and protection of their data, while also meeting carrier, partner and legal requirements. The Droid X and a majority of Android consumer devices on the market today have a secured bootloader. In reference specifically to eFuse, the technology is not loaded with the purpose of preventing a consumer device from functioning, but rather ensuring for the user that the device only runs on updated and tested versions of software. If a device attempts to boot with unapproved software, it will go into recovery mode, and can re-boot once approved software is re-installed. Checking for a valid software configuration is a common practice within the industry to protect the user against potential malicious software threats. Motorola has been a long time advocate of open platforms and provides a number of resources to developers to foster the ecosystem including tools and access to devices via MOTODEV at http://developer.motorola.com.
Thank you,
Anne Arroyo
Motorola Consumer Advocacy Office
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
COME ON GUYS.
What's the email address? It's worth a shot.
Sent from my DROIDX
bkjolly said:
What's the email address? It's worth a shot.
Sent from my DROIDX
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's in the OP.
Email sent I will post it when I get the response.
Sent from my DROIDX
motorola don't care
You will get the same response... they feel they are protecting the end user which is us.... but also those who don't care to mod their droid x. They are operating under the excuse that someone may take the information and create a virus that would be able to take customer information... atleast that is the bull they are feeding the public. Not using the common since in their heads say... "we left the drod 1 unlocked and nothing significately bad happened." and they also like to say it will void the warranty.. bla bla bla... so no matter what you do all you will get is bullsh*t bullsh*t BULLSH*T.... until someone comes up with a valid excuse and manages to get through to an actual person... cause I would be willing to bet that... that is an automated response based on subject slash specific words in the body. no one with any power reads them and if they see anything envolving bootloader it is replied to in that fashion no matter what.
better off
You would be better off complaining if they don't want to unlock the bootloader, then they need to come up with a better more inventive and visualy apealing UI, cause BLUR is crap.
Motorola is starting to piss me off
Ubermicro13 said:
Motorola is starting to piss me off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same. They say they support the open policy but that's BS. I love the phone but will probably not buy another one. That being said I knew what I was getting into prior to buying the phone with the locked bootloader/eFuse. However, this being my first android phone I didn't realize how addicting customizing could be. ie. roms/kernals. well, I can imagine how addicting it would be.
emailed
just emailed greg..
Guy, think about this for a second.
What CAN'T we do to this phone that we're already doing, besides maybe an optimized kernel? WITH efuse in place, the devs have managed to implement overclocking, voltage mods, easy rooting, system ROMing, etc. Its my understanding that with the D1, OCing and voltage mods were done by customizing the kernel. Well, here we are with the DX and doing it easily with the bootloader still locked down.
Now, I'd like to see that bootloader unlocked for the sake of doing it, but still...um, we've already gotten around much of what we were prevented from doing in the first place and all under efuse's nose.
Aggie12 said:
Same. They say they support the open policy but that's BS. I love the phone but will probably not buy another one. That being said I knew what I was getting into prior to buying the phone with the locked bootloader/eFuse. However, this being my first android phone I didn't realize how addicting customizing could be. ie. roms/kernals. well, I can imagine how addicting it would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha I'm on the same boat as you, It is indeed addicting.
The whole point of motorola locking down the bootloader was to prevent people from gaining the type of access we want. I know that the BL situation is annoying, but I was also aware of it when I bought the device. Personally, root and tethering are all that I want; otherwise, I would have bought a DI or Fascinate.
Not trying to hate, but i have seen multiple failed "outraged email drives" directed at motorola over the months
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
davisbs999 said:
The whole point of motorola locking down the bootloader was to prevent people from gaining the type of access we want. I know that the BL situation is annoying, but I was also aware of it when I bought the device. Personally, root and tethering are all that I want; otherwise, I would have bought a DI or Fascinate.
Not trying to hate, but i have seen multiple failed "outraged email drives" directed at motorola over the months
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fine. I'm not looking for the approval of your nor anyone else. It was merely a chance for me to vent my frustration towards the man. And I know we have come far but it's more of the principle that they still have so much say with the device even though we own it.
Why don't just send them your custom ROMs so they can approve they are within their "QA"? huh?
Dany0 said:
Why don't just send them your custom ROMs so they can approve they are within their "QA"? huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with that. Elect a team to build the ULTIMATE ROM and send to Moto. Show them what the devs can accomplish along with our user support.
We have to provide resistance and keep the pressure on them to stop this kind of lockdown for the future of modding/hacking devices.
Why ultimate, first we have to see what kind of roms they accept and which not. Then everyone will send it's own ROM.
And then we will sue them.
And then chuck norris... oh nothing
jasonm4046 said:
You will get the same response... they feel they are protecting the end user which is us.... but also those who don't care to mod their droid x. They are operating under the excuse that someone may take the information and create a virus that would be able to take customer information... atleast that is the bull they are feeding the public. Not using the common since in their heads say... "we left the drod 1 unlocked and nothing significately bad happened." and they also like to say it will void the warranty.. bla bla bla... so no matter what you do all you will get is bullsh*t bullsh*t BULLSH*T.... until someone comes up with a valid excuse and manages to get through to an actual person... cause I would be willing to bet that... that is an automated response based on subject slash specific words in the body. no one with any power reads them and if they see anything envolving bootloader it is replied to in that fashion no matter what.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually put it in my email not to give me that bull because everyone with half a brain knew it was a lie and that everyone that read it was laughing at Moto for thinking people were that stupid.
Sent from my DROIDX
SirBrass said:
Guy, think about this for a second.
What CAN'T we do to this phone that we're already doing, besides maybe an optimized kernel? WITH efuse in place, the devs have managed to implement overclocking, voltage mods, easy rooting, system ROMing, etc. Its my understanding that with the D1, OCing and voltage mods were done by customizing the kernel. Well, here we are with the DX and doing it easily with the bootloader still locked down.
Now, I'd like to see that bootloader unlocked for the sake of doing it, but still...um, we've already gotten around much of what we were prevented from doing in the first place and all under efuse's nose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason this is important is Moto's security gets tighter with every update. If we let them get away with it without at least trying to do something about it then they will continue to make security tighter and harder to work around. When other Manufacturers see that Moto got away with it they'll follow and eventually all phones will be locked down to the point that everyone is running the same Vanilla OS. The bootloader have a work around now but if we don't speak up it may not one day. They had no legitimate reason to lock the bootloader down it was just a show of force. Efuse is step one. So if you don't want Android ruined by the Manufacturers and Carriers speak up now. The Droid X is okay with a locked bootloader but they still put a leash on it and they're going to keep tightening it as long as we let them. Others will follow just watch HTC has already stared.
Sent from my DROIDX
Anyone want to start a web page for an online petition for Manufacturers not to lock down their phones? I would do it but I don't have the know how. But if we email this guy and start a web petition we have more of a voice. Call in to RadioAndroid and let the public know it's out there. This isn't just Moto we're fighting. We can stop other Manufacturs before they start or at least try.
Sent from my DROIDX
bkjolly said:
Anyone want to start a web page for an online petition for Manufacturers not to lock down their phones? I would do it but I don't have the know how. But if we email this guy and start a web petition we have more of a voice. Call in to RadioAndroid and let the public know it's out there. This isn't just Moto we're fighting. We can stop other Manufacturs before they start or at least try.
Sent from my DROIDX
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There have already been two online petitions done.
I have access to a supercomputer. Here are the stats:
A “palmetto cluster” with 85.04 TF peak performance using 1,541 nodes; 8 cores per node;
* 257 nodes of the cluster are Dell PowerEdge 1950 Intel Xeon E5345 @2.33Ghz; total of 8 cores (dual quad processors); 4MB L2 cache; 12 GB memory and 80 GB local hard drive.
* 258 nodes of the cluster are Dell Intel Xeon E5410 @2.33Ghz; total of 8 cores (dual quad processors); 6 MB of L2 cache; 12 GB memory and 80 GB local hard drive.
* 256 nodes of the cluster are SunFire X2200 Opteron 2.3 Ghz; total of 8 cores (dual quad processors); 4MB L2 cache; 16 GB memory and 80 GB local hard drive.
* 340 nodes of the cluster are IBM Intel Xeon dx340 @2.33Ghz; total of 8 cores (dual quad processors); 6 MB of L2 cache; 16 GB memory.
* 430 nodes of the cluster are Sun X6250 Intel Xeon L5420 @2.5Ghz; total of 8 cores (dual quad processors); 6 MB of L2 cache; 32 GB memory.
* Myrinet 10G high throughput storage is attached to all nodes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anything I can do to help brute force it?
Last I heard they are not trying to brute force it. A few devs are trying to apply kexec to boot custom kernel thou. Here is a link of his twitter
http://twitter.com/aliasxerog
Furthermore, even with that amount of processing power you have there , the RSA2048 bit encryption on the DX would take decades or an extraordinary amount of luck. Or so I've read.
Thanks for offering though!
joebob296 said:
Last I heard they are not trying to brute force it. A few devs are trying to apply kexec to boot custom kernel thou. Here is a link of his twitter
http://twitter.com/aliasxerog
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, following him now
yawdapaah said:
Furthermore, even with that amount of processing power you have there , the RSA2048 bit encryption on the DX would take decades or an extraordinary amount of luck. Or so I've read.
Thanks for offering though!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was afraid of that :/ thanks for letting me know.
yawdapaah said:
Furthermore, even with that amount of processing power you have there , the RSA2048 bit encryption on the DX would take decades or an extraordinary amount of luck. Or so I've read.
Thanks for offering though!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True! I believe the theoretical assumption of trying to.break a 128 bit key encryption ( for wpa wireless) was said to take several supercomputers working for several months (if not years) to only gain a portion of the key... Sadly...i wish there was a more.positive edge to this...
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Wait for aliasxerog...apparently he has the new Init working and is releasing the source after 01/07/11. So, custom bootloaders are closer than ever before
phimuskapsi said:
Wait for aliasxerog...apparently he has the new Init working and is releasing the source after 01/07/11. So, custom bootloaders are closer than ever before
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweet, can someone point me to a link to follow aliasxerog? Would love to keep track of this!
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
It's the twitter link above, that joebob296 posted.
Would it be possible to make it a group effort to brute force it.
I am sure there are thousands of people that would be willing to run with it if there were some instructions.
I want that dam thing cracked as much as everyone else and would run something 24/7 to help.
I just think it might be easier to write a program that everyone can run and use the processing power of the multitudes to crack it.
Just my .02
Lmfao at neite.... "with your powers combined, I AM CAPTAIN BOOTLOADER CRACKER!" That's not how things work. But your spear change had been noted lol.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Hey Guys, I asked this same question a while back, here was the explanation:
Entire post is here: http://alldroid.org/Default.aspx?tabid=40&g=posts&t=660 Start at post #56
DX encryption is 2048, which is approximately 3.2317e616.
Just to give you an image of how huge that is...let's image for a moment where we live in a magical land, where we could get one trillion computers cranking on this (that's a little over 100 computers for every person on the planet), and, let's say each computer is magically capable of quadrillion attempts a second (for the record as well...I doubt computers will ever be that fast...at least not without a fundamental change in architecture to compensate for the massive amount of heat that would be generated), it would take us:
2^2048/1,000,000,000,000/1,000,000,000,000,000/60/60/24/365 or 102477e578 years (I could be off by an order of magnitude or two, typing in all of those zeros into my calculator.
So sure...start brute forcing now, and your great-great-great-...-great grandchildren who have by now evolved into another completely different species living in a completely different universe because this one has ceased to exist will finally know the code.
The ONLY way into this is through a back door/hack, sorry guys.
ezun wrote: "soooooooo... yer sayin' there's a chance?"
Technically, yes, there is a chance.
@tjmur3, Yes, you are right...my case did assume that the correct key was the very last one we tried. (As in 100% of the keys were tried).
So, let's continue the story where we last left off: 102477e578 years to go.
Well...by magic, we find it in the first 0.0000000000000000000000000001% of keys we try (and assuming that each key is equally possible, there's a 0.0000000000000000000000000001% chance of it happening *that* quickly, it should take us: 102477e550 years, to try out that many keys. Have fun with that. (I may have mistyped how many zeros I put there).
And yes...the universe will probably have still ended by that time...but at least you'll have your key.
People, learn about orders of magnitude, please...IT'S NOT LINEAR!!!
</rant>
(I want this thing unlocked just as much,, if not more so than you do, but I would like it unlocked within the actual life of the phone, let alone my life, let alone the life of this planet, the sun, and the galaxy, and the universe...)
I'd love to see it cracked, but more just to see someone actually pull it out of their arse. I'm happy with how my phone runs on GJAR, it's what I wanted when I bought the blasted thing.
Ezun said:
Hey Guys, I asked this same question a while back, here was the explanation:
Entire post is here: http://alldroid.org/Default.aspx?tabid=40&g=posts&t=660 Start at post #56
DX encryption is 2048, which is approximately 3.2317e616.
Just to give you an image of how huge that is...let's image for a moment where we live in a magical land, where we could get one trillion computers cranking on this (that's a little over 100 computers for every person on the planet), and, let's say each computer is magically capable of quadrillion attempts a second (for the record as well...I doubt computers will ever be that fast...at least not without a fundamental change in architecture to compensate for the massive amount of heat that would be generated), it would take us:
2^2048/1,000,000,000,000/1,000,000,000,000,000/60/60/24/365 or 102477e578 years (I could be off by an order of magnitude or two, typing in all of those zeros into my calculator.
So sure...start brute forcing now, and your great-great-great-...-great grandchildren who have by now evolved into another completely different species living in a completely different universe because this one has ceased to exist will finally know the code.
The ONLY way into this is through a back door/hack, sorry guys.
ezun wrote: "soooooooo... yer sayin' there's a chance?"
Technically, yes, there is a chance.
@tjmur3, Yes, you are right...my case did assume that the correct key was the very last one we tried. (As in 100% of the keys were tried).
So, let's continue the story where we last left off: 102477e578 years to go.
Well...by magic, we find it in the first 0.0000000000000000000000000001% of keys we try (and assuming that each key is equally possible, there's a 0.0000000000000000000000000001% chance of it happening *that* quickly, it should take us: 102477e550 years, to try out that many keys. Have fun with that. (I may have mistyped how many zeros I put there).
And yes...the universe will probably have still ended by that time...but at least you'll have your key.
People, learn about orders of magnitude, please...IT'S NOT LINEAR!!!
(I want this thing unlocked just as much,, if not more so than you do, but I would like it unlocked within the actual life of the phone, let alone my life, let alone the life of this planet, the sun, and the galaxy, and the universe...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1^2048 (just for the heck of the bootloaders sake) @ezun, thanks for taking the time to explain this... Didnt want ti figure out the math...although the computers are getting closer to a quadrillion pf/sec. I think they are at 13 hundred trillion tf/sec or something close to it...
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
That is absolutely insane... why does Motorola bother to lock them down so tight? They don't want us ENJOYING their phone?
pCarson92 said:
That is absolutely insane... why does Motorola bother to lock them down so tight? They don't want us ENJOYING their phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have their stupid arguments. The fact is motoblur is a bad product for some people and Motorola have deterred me from buying one of their phones ever again.
amasse said:
They have their stupid arguments. The fact is motoblur is a bad product for some people and Motorola have deterred me from buying one of their phones ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I Agree. When I compared my droid x to my sisters new one with all the blur crap, oh my god, it was terrible. So I installed Apex on it for the time being.
judasmachine said:
I'd love to see it cracked, but more just to see someone actually pull it out of their arse. I'm happy with how my phone runs on GJAR, it's what I wanted when I bought the blasted thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMEN!
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Hey,
If anyone bothered to read the whole thread you would see someones twitter account. Well if you took the time to read that persons twitter posts you will see that Jan 7th will be a good day for us X users!!!
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
jvward said:
Hey,
If anyone bothered to read the whole thread you would see someones twitter account. Well if you took the time to read that persons twitter posts you will see that Jan 7th will be a good day for us X users!!!
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The new Init will be coming out.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
bigshotrob22 said:
The new Init will be coming out.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what exactly does this mean?
If true...
http://phandroid.com/2011/04/04/developer-troubled-times-ahead-for-anyone-who-roots/
Oh and where's the tags that the mods add in on My threads about my girl blowing everyone lol I'm still waiting haaaaa update there it is
Oh nooooooeeessss!!!
Sigh.
This really makes me want to just use a laptop for a phone now.
At least I can do what I want with my laptop's data connection.
WTF!??
10char
f***
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
this is me forgetting to thank you.
drmacinyasha said:
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I will never buy a phone from a carrier that implements this crap
drmacinyasha said:
ok, this is the kinda stuff where either google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the fcc needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw verizon and every other carrier that does this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+2788786886
I agree this is total B.S.
lost_man10002 said:
+1
I will never buy a phone from a carrier that implements this crap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one should, the consumers run this together we can boycott any carrier who does this dictatorship bull****, I pledge I will not support any carrier who does this.
I'd rather take my evo and flash to cricket
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
drmacinyasha said:
OK, this is the kinda stuff where either Google needs to get its balls back and *****-slap the carriers, or the FCC needs to actually step in to protect customers.
Either way, it's bull****. Screw Verizon and every other carrier that does this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
This brought tears to my eyes.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Eff that. I will not buy a phone like that... If I have to go back to dumbphones... Then so be it.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
It will never happen. The backlash would just be too much to handle.
And if manufacturers were to begin implementing these types of lockdowns, you know for a fact that they'll just be hacked around sooner or later.
Hello? We are discussing this on XDA... Home to undoubtedly the best group of white hat device hackers I've seen.
We all assume risk when rooting our devices and given the more open nature of Android, there's always the concern that some application will start stealing your data. It's a risk I'm willing to take and I'm sure most everyone else here as well.
mkhopper said:
It will never happen. The backlash would just be too much to handle.
And if manufacturers were to begin implementing these types of lockdowns, you know for a fact that they'll just be hacked around sooner or later.
Hello? We are discussing this on XDA... Home to undoubtedly the best group of white hat device hackers I've seen.
We all assume risk when rooting our devices and given the more open nature of Android, there's always the concern that some application will start stealing your data. It's a risk I'm willing to take and I'm sure most everyone else here as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the problem with what you stated, the percentage of users rooted compared to non rooted, well are not even close, if they did lock out every new phone with master keys that we would never be able to figure out, well it could happen. Even if they did lose every rooted users support financially, they would still have more than 95 percent of their profiT, that's my fear, it'll hurt but not if sprint, Verizon, etc pays the difference or that kind of sort of thing. For example to make it easy, say all rooted user cause 600,000 in lost profit for sprint that they could have potentially gained, well HTC goes hey well lock the device but we want the difference from the users like us who will not purchase the phone. Anyway that's my take on it, enlighten me with your guys thoughts
It may be time to dust off my Razr.
Carriers get smart, devs get smarter......lets not jump the gun and worry about this nonsense now. I will enjoy my rooted phone for now. If this does go down those of you saying you will go to "dumbphones" are full of it. Even if these phones are locked down tighter than a 17 year old girls tuna you will still use it. I see the future as phones will be so fast why would you need to root; I love to root, I've been rooting ALL my phones since g1 and the sole purpose was the speed my phone up. Dual core phone no root ehh who cares. I will NOT use a free phone just because these phones in the future will possibly be locked. One can only hope this security doesn't see light but if it does I'm sure we'll be ok.
iitreatedii said:
Here's the problem with what you stated, the percentage of users rooted compared to non rooted, well are not even close, if they did lock out every new phone with master keys that we would never be able to figure out, well it could happen. Even if they did lose every rooted users support financially, they would still have more than 95 percent of their profiT, that's my fear, it'll hurt but not if sprint, Verizon, etc pays the difference or that kind of sort of thing. For example to make it easy, say all rooted user cause 600,000 in lost profit for sprint that they could have potentially gained, well HTC goes hey well lock the device but we want the difference from the users like us who will not purchase the phone. Anyway that's my take on it, enlighten me with your guys thoughts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard the "rooted users are the extreme minority" comment countless times, and all logic says it really must be true.
However, when I go to the market, click apps, then all applications, then click top paid, 3 of the top 5 require root. As an honest question, are my market results tailored for my usage history or is that the same "top paid" list everyone sees? If it is indeed the same for everyone then it becomes much harder to quantify rooted users being in the minority.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
dirkyd3rk said:
Carriers get smart, devs get smarter......lets not jump the gun and worry about this nonsense now. I will enjoy my rooted phone for now. If this does go down those of you saying you will go to "dumbphones" are full of it. Even if these phones are locked down tighter than a 17 year old girls tuna you will still use it. I see the future as phones will be so fast why would you need to root; I love to root, I've been rooting ALL my phones since g1 and the sole purpose was the speed my phone up. Dual core phone no root ehh who cares. I will NOT use a free phone just because these phones in the future will possibly be locked. One can only hope this security doesn't see light but if it does I'm sure we'll be ok.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree about the smartphone part but do not about the master key part, it would take years like 75 - 100 if the key is properly secure for many and I mean many super computers to solve that algorithm...look at the droids, the only reason on a side note the ps3 master key was released was because the people who secured it messed up in the formula, and that still took 5 years..
the consequence would never be the same.