Database Users

Support Section (Mods look here please!)

Okay, before everyone starts flaming...I know that there are probably hundreds of thread in the Dream General section suggesting a support section or a "Support thread" but they have been incredibly unsuccessful and members are constantly reporting and starting new threads on their problems in Dream Android Development and in General. Isn't the whole point of GENERAL suppose to be GENERAL? And not a support area?
This is why I'm proposing that we create an entire new area for people to get help and for people to post their problems and give solutions. If you take a look at the amount of locked threads in development and the amount of threads in Dream General pertaining to the numerous amount of problems that people are having, you will understand. I understand that there is in fact a brick thread inside Dream Development, but people don't care. They just post it in random places and mods have to constantly remind people to post in the right place and to SEARCH! With this proposal, I believe that if a support section is created, people will be more likely to search in THERE because it's a special place set aside for just that, SUPPORT.
Mods please take this into consideration and don't lock this thread. How many of you think that we should have a support section and not clutter Dream General and Dream Development with hundreds of two post threads talking about bricks and eventually them getting locked or moved to the trash within seconds.
Thanks for reading this. Comment in the posts below
Thanks to Milestone for a list of good reasons why we should have a support section! thanks milestone!
milestone.it said:
i feel that a support section would be useful for many simple reasons
1) it would aid in the moderation task - most people can read the word "support" and realize to post in there. if they can't then don't get a g1!
2) it would allow for a few people who are interested in helping out other newbie users to correct their problems without everyone having to read them if they don't want to.
3) there can be a place to move wrongly posted requests to.
4) everyone knows where to post them to in the first place!
that was my £0.02p
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Everyone here with a few exceptions i'm sure are using a rooted phone. If you noticed, each thread that contains a ROM will also provide support for that ROM. Most of the problems are specific to each rom. So there would need to be a support thread for each ROM released in a seperate forum section, which already exists in the developer section. Also, each rom released is pretty much a beta and will always remain a beta because there is no standards to which these roms are created and no "end point" to the development, its always on going. And unique bugs and problems will always occure with each Rom. So it is a continual part of development to post, read about and repair those bugs and problems to make each Rom better. I don't think a support section needs to be created. I just think people need to be less lazy and use the search tools. Even bricked phones are being bricked by a specific rom...or SPL or what have u and again should fall under development since most bricked phones was because of a bad SPL or bug in a ROM . And if it is not specific to anything that has been created or released here...Tmobile DOES have their own support forums =)

Good point, but we're not T-Mobile and T-Mobile doesn't JUST carry the G1 now do they?

alritewhadeva said:
Good point, but we're not T-Mobile and T-Mobile doesn't JUST carry the G1 now do they?
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You've a good point as well =). ...Yah, T-mobile mentioned something about them carrying the ION soon....so I guess "T-Mobile" can be replaced with "Your phone's manufacturer and/or carrier" hehehe
Did XDA not create forums for the Magic and the Ion and the Sapphire? Most of this development is geared towards the G1 for the most part...which pretty much is T-Mobile....Now if they just made a Forum for "ANDROID DEVELOPMENT" that encomposses all the android phones...that may work out better. But the support would still end up in the specific rom forums... I dunno...to many roms and too many phones and too many carriers lol getting had to keep up

alritewhadeva said:
Good point, but we're not T-Mobile and T-Mobile doesn't JUST carry the G1 now do they?
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No, and T-Mobile won't be able to support the myriad of problems that come with rooted phones and custom ROMs anyway.
The sad fact (and why this idea has never really taken off) is that no matter what you do; stickies/wikis/locked threads/temp bans etc... there is always going to be a host of fng's that don't know any better and will continue to post out of context and out of laziness.
Hell, there's a couple people that straight up know better and will still post in the wrong section because "nobody's gonna be able to help me in the Dream forum, so I'm posting here anyway."
It would seem you can't change human nature, so you're forced to moderate. Or so I've decided.

i feel that a support section would be useful for many simple reasons
1) it would aid in the moderation task - most people can read the word "support" and realise to post in there. if they can't then don't get a g1!
2) it would allow for a few people who are interested in helping out other newbie users to correct their problems without everyone having to read them if they don't want to.
3) there can be a place to move wrongly posted requests to.
4) everyone knows where to post them to in the first place!
that was my £0.02p

tep065 said:
You've a good point as well =). ...Yah, T-mobile mentioned something about them carrying the ION soon....so I guess "T-Mobile" can be replaced with "Your phone's manufacturer and/or carrier" hehehe
Did XDA not create forums for the Magic and the Ion and the Sapphire? Most of this development is geared towards the G1 for the most part...which pretty much is T-Mobile....Now if they just made a Forum for "ANDROID DEVELOPMENT" that encomposses all the android phones...that may work out better. But the support would still end up in the specific rom forums... I dunno...to many roms and too many phones and too many carriers lol getting had to keep up
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Yeah there's a forum for the Magic/Sapphire but the ION has not really been officially launched, but when it does I'm sure XDA will create another forum for it. I still think a support section would be a good idea. Most other forums have something like that, however this one does not. Just my opinion
milestone.it said:
i feel that a support section would be useful for many simple reasons
1) it would aid in the moderation task - most people can read the word "support" and realise to post in there. if they can't then don't get a g1!
2) it would allow for a few people who are interested in helping out other newbie users to correct their problems without everyone having to read them if they don't want to.
3) there can be a place to move wrongly posted requests to.
4) everyone knows where to post them to in the first place!
that was my £0.02p
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Good list. Updated OP

So, I've been thinking about this a bit more... and drinking bombay/tonic and shots of patron, so take it with a grain of salt...hehe
Anyway, I actually think it could be useful at this point. Seeing all the troubleshooting threads in this forum, it could be useful to seperate truly general things with support related things.
The way I see it, at this moment:
Dream (26 Viewing)
Dream android development (237 Viewing)
Dream accessories (2 Viewing)
Dream themes and wallpapers (25 Viewing)
Dream applications and games (23 Viewing)
Obviously, development gets all the attention.
That's the main reason so many people go straight there to get a question answered.
However; a support thread probably wouldn't see any less visitors than the other 4 threads and certainly more than the accessories thread. I dare say, accessories could be merged with general and be replaced with support.
It wouldn't hurt to have a handful of stickies of current support issues and an entire thread dedicated to it. Maybe having a thread that floated to the top in development called support that tried to redirect people to a support forum might work well.
Anyway, just a thought. Back to the tequila...
milestone.it said:
i feel that a support section would be useful for many simple reasons
1) it would aid in the moderation task - most people can read the word "support" and realise to post in there. if they can't then don't get a g1!
2) it would allow for a few people who are interested in helping out other newbie users to correct their problems without everyone having to read them if they don't want to.
3) there can be a place to move wrongly posted requests to.
4) everyone knows where to post them to in the first place!
that was my £0.02p
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Agreed =] I'm thankful for everyone commenting in this thread and keeping it alive. Come on guys, don't PRETEND you DON'T want a suppport section. Aren't all of you tired of the cluttered threads and the people telling you to sift through 300 page threads for answers? With this support section, finding an answer should be a breeze. I'm proposing we have sepeerate threads in the section for different ROMs and to post known problems and known solutions in the OPs. Let your opinions be heard! Going to go ahead and bump this up there. Come on! Comment! and vote in the poll

How about a Read-Only" forum for the Devs?

I have no idea where this should be posted, but since I have a Vibrant, and I know there is a lot of development going on with that platform, I figured I may as well post it here. I actually suggested this in the Bionix thread, but it got buried in all the other chatter pretty quickly. Hence, the reason for this post.
I think it would be great if the active devs here had read-only forums where they could post updates on their development efforts. That way people (non-devs mostly) could subscribe to those threads and get notifications whenever they post something. The ROM threads get so big so fast, it is hard to keep up without reading them several times a day (heck, several times an hour!).
This would require the admins here to set up the forum and grant editing rights to the active devs. Then a process would have to be developed to decide when new devs could be added to the list. In my mind, the way I envision this working is there would be one forum (call it "Developer's Corner" or something like that) and in it would be different threads for each development project. You subscribe to the threads that interest you and BAM, you are getting notifications from the forum when the devs post something there.
Skip

Devs rely on users to post bugs so they can fix them. How would this be possible with such a system?

...by sending bugs via PM to the dev?

ronin4740 said:
...by sending bugs via PM to the dev?
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Why would you do that? Just use bug tracker on Google projects, it is far more organized e.g. http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/list
The idea of a read-only forum is just awful. If you want to follow the developer's progress then follow them on Twitter. You don't have to read every post, use the search functionality WITHIN that thread to search only in that thread to look for what you desire to find.

The real solution is to post a separate thread for each release. That way you know that everything in that thread is pertinent to that release and aren't looking through old replies that don't even matter anymore.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

richan90 said:
Devs rely on users to post bugs so they can fix them. How would this be possible with such a system?
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There would still be open forums (the ones that already exist) in which people will be able to post questions, bugs, etc.
zephiK said:
Why would you do that? Just use bug tracker on Google projects, it is far more organized e.g. http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/list
The idea of a read-only forum is just awful. If you want to follow the developer's progress then follow them on Twitter. You don't have to read every post, use the search functionality WITHIN that thread to search only in that thread to look for what you desire to find.
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I didn't know anyone here was using the G bug tracker. That is a good idea.
As for using twitter, I am sad to admit that while I use twitter, I hadn't thought of following the devs there. I will take care of that today.
kangxi said:
The real solution is to post a separate thread for each release. That way you know that everything in that thread is pertinent to that release and aren't looking through old replies that don't even matter anymore.
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This is also a very good point. The differences between some of the different revisions is quite drastic, and having all of the revisions in one thread is counter-productive.
The bottom line here is the current method creates one big mess and there is clearly room for improvement. I think if the devs had a way of posting announcements for which users can opt-in to receive notification when those announcements are posted, then that solves one small portion of the mess.
Would that be so bad?

You have just described Twitter.

I was under the impression that one dev didn't want to know about bugs in their roms inside of their threads.

heygrl said:
I was under the impression that one dev didn't want to know about bugs in their roms inside of their threads.
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Only if it's super buggy and they know it is buggy, no reason to post bugs then.
Back on topic: Your idea got buried because it sucked. People read through all that, not everyone, but some do.

heygrl said:
I was under the impression that one dev didn't want to know about bugs in their roms inside of their threads.
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Often when someone posts something that they already know is full of bugs they will ask people to not post about them, just because they are already known issues.

Al right. I guess it's just me then.
Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Do not post links to synergy or other closed testing nighties!!!

I have gotten multiple requests from a few devs in the past week, including myn to delete links to their mirrors posted by users. Today, I had to delete a full thread about these. Stop posting links to said nighties. Devs will release the rom when it is ready to be called "beta". The reason they have not opened a new thread about this is because some people perceive the threads like this as "feelers" or with the sole purpose to draw donations, which is by no means the intention of the devs.
This is a final warning about this.

Right on man the devs work there ass off and are always working on something new and fixing problems sucks when people on here jack there links and post them all over here and then take credit for it Happy you did something about it.

It is crap that people feel the need to do things like that. Personally, I don't mess with "nightlies" unless it says AOSP. Stoked about Myn's next release though.

I agree 100%. Glad to see swift action from the XDA Admins / Mods.
Question - Should all links of the new ROMs be off limits, including changelogs and such? For instance, I noticed a link in the Warm 2.2 thread for the changelog for Myn's Synergy ROM.

jdogg836 said:
I agree 100%. Glad to see swift action from the XDA Admins / Mods.
Question - Should all links of the new ROMs be off limits, including changelogs and such? For instance, I noticed a link in the Warm 2.2 thread for the changelog for Myn's Synergy ROM.
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Changelogs for this rom can also be found in infectedrom as well afaik. If the link to the changelog has any way to link back to a mirror or a link to obtain the rom, then I would say it should be off limits. Please link me to the post in question if you can (myn's 2.2 thread is only a gazillion pages long and I don't have all eternity to look for it )

ehh, I think the issues is people don't understand that these rom's are for the experienced user. The Synergy is not released publicly yet because their is a risk some idiot will bork, brick, ruin their phone. also if you want it so badly go to the irc channel that's your best bet for getting the latest and most proper version some user's could think they're fixing something and share it on the forum and next thing you know 20+ dead device's
/end input and rant.

Sinistertensai said:
ehh, I think the issues is people don't understand that these rom's are for the experienced user. The Synergy is not released publicly yet because their is a risk some idiot will bork, brick, ruin their phone. also if you want it so badly go to the irc channel that's your best bet for getting the latest and most proper version some user's could think they're fixing something and share it on the forum and next thing you know 20+ dead device's
/end input and rant.
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great point man.

Although I agree with their general intentions, some developers have not been acknowledging or giving access to the nightly builds even for those who have donated. It's been almost a week since I donated to a developer and have yet to even get an acknowledgement, let alone access to any nighties, and I've seen posts from others who are in the same situation. I know donating does not automatically grant access to the nighties, but I think the developers should also be more forthcoming to those who donated to them.

antiphon said:
Although I agree with their general intentions, some developers have not been acknowledging or giving access to the nightly builds even for those who have donated. It's been almost a week since I donated to a developer and have yet to even get an acknowledgement, let alone access to any nighties, and I've seen posts from others who are in the same situation. I know donating does not automatically grant access to the nighties, but I think the developers should also be more forthcoming to those who donated to them.
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My point exactly. You don't donate to a dev and get automatic access to nighties. You donate because you feel like giving someone something for their hard work and should expect nothing in return. If the dev so happens to grant access in lieu of donations so be it, all the better for you. However, if a dev did post something along the lines of "donators will receive access to nightly builds and early releases", then that is where we would have to step in, as that is considered selling "money for a good or service". Sorry but if you donated, you donated and that is the end of it.

is it ok if i give someone who i know has access to like the myn links, the V links?? cuz right now myns links are broken, but V's arent....... if not, i will stop.... just plz dont ban me
and congrats on your 10,000th post egzthunder!!!!
i made it right, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=14567216&postcount=42026, so please, dont ban me egzthunder, i was only trying to help

JGW310 said:
is it ok if i give someone who i know has access to like the myn links, the V links?? cuz right now myns links are broken, but V's arent....... if not, i will stop.... just plz dont ban me
and congrats on your 10,000th post egzthunder!!!!
i made it right, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=14567216&postcount=42026, so please, dont ban me egzthunder, i was only trying to help
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Thanks and thanks

Im posting this here, because dont know were to put this.
I think we need more moderator here in the EVO 4G Forum area, because every single Development thread, you can only see people *****ing about the same thing that is already posted, PEOPLE here Don't READ even when your are installing something in your phone that can Break it. ( If you go to a Leak ROM thread, it is clear that you cannot install thoose type of ROMs, and people always are asking that they are having issues installing the ROM, LOL)
If you go to General you can see like 10 thread of the Same Thing, In the Evo 3d Area you can see like 8 topics of Release date, 4 of Root, etc, etc.
My opinion is that we need more moderators in the Forum, The XDA community everyday is becoming bigger, so you need to take that in mind.

rockypr said:
Im posting this here, because dont know were to put this.
I think we need more moderator here in the EVO 4G Forum area, because every single Development thread, you can only see people *****ing about the same thing that is already posted, PEOPLE here Don't READ even when your are installing something in your phone that can Break it. ( If you go to a Leak ROM thread, it is clear that you cannot install thoose type of ROMs, and people always are asking that they are having issues installing the ROM, LOL)
If you go to General you can see like 10 thread of the Same Thing, In the Evo 3d Area you can see like 8 topics of Release date, 4 of Root, etc, etc.
My opinion is that we need more moderators in the Forum, The XDA community everyday is becoming bigger, so you need to take that in mind.
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Agreed. I volunteer
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

rockypr said:
Im posting this here, because dont know were to put this.
I think we need more moderator here in the EVO 4G Forum area, because every single Development thread, you can only see people *****ing about the same thing that is already posted, PEOPLE here Don't READ even when your are installing something in your phone that can Break it. ( If you go to a Leak ROM thread, it is clear that you cannot install thoose type of ROMs, and people always are asking that they are having issues installing the ROM, LOL)
If you go to General you can see like 10 thread of the Same Thing, In the Evo 3d Area you can see like 8 topics of Release date, 4 of Root, etc, etc.
My opinion is that we need more moderators in the Forum, The XDA community everyday is becoming bigger, so you need to take that in mind.
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Click to collapse
There are 3 moderators assigned here, plus I am always around as well as other Senior Mods. This place has become somewhat chaotic as of lately, but we will control it to the best of our abilities.

Google is your best friend. That's all I gotta say. *Hint*

Ya alot of flame wars going on. Sad people were stealin links and posting the devs hard work and claming it theres. Glad the ADMIN stopped it.

If you've made it a rule to close threads involving the posting of links to nightlies at least somewhere on the site there could be link to the rom!

There is a link posted. Goto the Incredible section and get it there.

rockypr said:
Im posting this here, because dont know were to put this.
I think we need more moderator here in the EVO 4G Forum area, because every single Development thread, you can only see people *****ing about the same thing that is already posted, PEOPLE here Don't READ even when your are installing something in your phone that can Break it. ( If you go to a Leak ROM thread, it is clear that you cannot install thoose type of ROMs, and people always are asking that they are having issues installing the ROM, LOL)
If you go to General you can see like 10 thread of the Same Thing, In the Evo 3d Area you can see like 8 topics of Release date, 4 of Root, etc, etc.
My opinion is that we need more moderators in the Forum, The XDA community everyday is becoming bigger, so you need to take that in mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you see anything that you feel is against the rules, or shouldn't be posted then please PM me or one of the other assigned Forum Mods for the Evo.
We can't read every individiual thread and do rely on members help. Remember this is your forum, so please help us keep it as clean as we can!
The 3 mods currently looking after this forum are:
josefcrist
toastcfh
And myself. You can PM me directly from the link in my sig.

rolfd said:
If you see anything that you feel is against the rules, or shouldn't be posted then please PM me or one of the other assigned Forum Mods for the Evo.
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THIS. rolfd has been more than helpful each and every time I have sent a private message.
Thanks!

Non XDA hosted roms in general and Thor in particular

Ok
Having had a number of threads crapped, locked and deleted I am now asking (since mods dont answer PMs with the question)
Why can we have threads asking for help getting Thors mod running but we can not have threads discussing Thors upcoming Roms and cornerstone?
Not flaming, not causing controversy, just asking. So far I have seen multiple threads locked and my very polite, very clear, very 100% legal thread deleted with no notice or explanation and no response from mods.
I and others would just like to see a constant and even hand when it comes to Thor. Can we or can we not discuss his work, and if so, then can we have the mods remove the offenders and not the threads.

yeah, I saw this too. It seems the only time a thread gets attention from a mod is if Thor is mentioned. The rules are followed, yet the thread gets locked or deleted. Yet the rest of the sub forums are a mess. It is definitely clear that it's a vendetta now. Thread to disappear in 3,2,....
Sent from my Acer Iconia A500 using Tapatalk

Remember that XDA is huge... so some things slip through. If they do, you can always flag a post for review... That said, removing the offenders would be even worse, as (particularly new) members might violate the rules without noticing... Of course, some people just won't accept the rules, and I guess they are eventually banned. Other than that, the forum rules clearly say "no warez" -- and, from a purely legal point of view, Thor's kernel qualifies.

I would say purely because the moderation of the a500 forums has been so lacking for so long. Now they finally get sick of flame threads being flagged they decide to just nuke anything to do with the cause of 95% of the nuisance posts: THOR and anything to do with him.
OP Really has come across as a Troll account to me though TBH, sorry if I am wrong but can't you just let it go? You are like a dog with a bone, go to his unmentionable forums and hang out there if you don't like the rules?

He has followed the rules, even directly from the horses mouth. The rules state no links may be posted, that's it, that's all. Discussion is fine. There's even an ICS theme thread that's been going on for awhile for thors Rom.
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk

Yep.
I created an account 3 (!!) years ago just so I could be a "troll".
Looking at post counts vs time we seem to be about the same......lurkers who post when meaningful. I do spend a lot of time at the "unmentionable" forum. I also keep tabs here to see if there is anything worthwhile...unfortunately less and less recently. Show me one post (other than 1 deleted one that was a clean call by the mod) where I did NOT 100% address the topic of the thread. Just because some one does not like the answer does not make it a troll post.... those whos some total of input is "sputter sputter GPL sputter stammer froth sputter" those are trolls.

Personally I have zero interest in Thor's stuff and I find his behaviour to be petty, childish and, again, hypocritical -- "I use other devs' stuff but I don't want other people to use my stuff!" -- but I still think people should be allowed to discuss his stuff here. We do not lose anything as a community even if we allow people to discuss topics they find interesting, but we certainly do lose something if we start censoring discussions just on the basis of who they are about!
Just my 2 cents, here.

Aaron Camp said:
Yep.
I created an account 3 (!!) years ago just so I could be a "troll".
Looking at post counts vs time we seem to be about the same......lurkers who post when meaningful. I do spend a lot of time at the "unmentionable" forum. I also keep tabs here to see if there is anything worthwhile...unfortunately less and less recently. Show me one post (other than 1 deleted one that was a clean call by the mod) where I did NOT 100% address the topic of the thread. Just because some one does not like the answer does not make it a troll post.... those whos some total of input is "sputter sputter GPL sputter stammer froth sputter" those are trolls.
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Hey I did say sorry if I was wrong!
Maybe one of the mods rubbed you the wrong way and you decided to be defiant? I don't actually disagree with any of your points, I just don't see the point in constantly questioning the mods or the rules when it won't get you anywhere?
Correct me if I missed something but it pretty much went
*Getting a thread closed due to mentioning Thor and people jumped in and started **** (as most mentions of him tend to do).
*Then instead of letting it go, posted a similar topic saying go to Thors site...he's working on stuff you want!
* Now after that thread failed you go ahead and call out the Moderators to what end? An apology?
It does seem the Moderators are more active in here now though, which can only be a good thing...if you are to blame in some way, thank you! lol
Update to reply to WereCatf instead of double posting: I agree 100% the mods deleting the threads is silly, they should only delete clear violations or flame wars. People will behave if the Mods stay as active as they have been the last couple of days and we can all discuss anything without starting **** storms and having threads deleted or people banned.

Great summation for the past 2 week "thor gate".
Honestly trying to understand the rules. I am a long time lurker/poster. I was actually around when thor was deving here. There is zero consistency so no one knows the rules. Tth thread that was deleted had over 500 views and was 2 pages long. I ddint see anything in it that was flamebate and I was very very careful to keep it 100% legit by all posted rules and previous mod comments. All of a sudden....poof. Add to that a complete lack of response via pm from the mod and it did leave a bad taste.
To be honest the whole thor issue comes down to opinion on who's right and who's wrong. It could go either way. He is clearly outside the bounds of xda though....no grey there, but from a personal level as to people stealing his hard work, I am behind him 100%.
Hell its been 2 days on this thread and no mod or "authority" has responded at all. In my book a poorly modded forum is worse than an unmodded one every time.

Aaron Camp said:
Hell its been 2 days on this thread and no mod or "authority" has responded at all. In my book a poorly modded forum is worse than an unmodded one every time.
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Mate, just let go. Don't expect a response from mods, they are likely busy, plus they likely have better things to do than to respond to threads like this. I mean, man, let go now and go do something useful. If they respond to this thread then good, if they don't you're just wasting your time at being unproductive.

I'm new to the community so I don't have an opinion about a certain hammer wielding developer. However, why the F*** do people want XDA to support his stuff when he has a whole site devoted to that?
Jim

Aaron Camp said:
Ok
Having had a number of threads crapped, locked and deleted I am now asking (since mods dont answer PMs with the question)
Why can we have threads asking for help getting Thors mod running but we can not have threads discussing Thors upcoming Roms and cornerstone?
Not flaming, not causing controversy, just asking. So far I have seen multiple threads locked and my very polite, very clear, very 100% legal thread deleted with no notice or explanation and no response from mods.
I and others would just like to see a constant and even hand when it comes to Thor. Can we or can we not discuss his work, and if so, then can we have the mods remove the offenders and not the threads.
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He has a forum use his forum to discuss how mods installed etc
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

Thats kinda the point of this and other threads. There are other Roms out there beyond XDA. XDA in almost all other cases has no problem discussing them, referencing them, and even helping troublshoot them. XDA is very clear on what a ROM must be to be hosted here. Thor can not be hosted. No one argues that. We (and yes there are many who agree with me) just want to be able to discuss Thor here without the rabid anti-Thor crowd running in and crapping threads. As someone above said its become clear that it is a vendetta against Thor for some. If it is great, admit it, come clean and post clearly to all that XDA will not allow discussion of Thor, or moderate those who are crapping threads and let the discussion continue.

Aaron Camp said:
Thats kinda the point of this and other threads. There are other Roms out there beyond XDA. XDA in almost all other cases has no problem discussing them, referencing them, and even helping troublshoot them. XDA is very clear on what a ROM must be to be hosted here. Thor can not be hosted. No one argues that. We (and yes there are many who agree with me) just want to be able to discuss Thor here without the rabid anti-Thor crowd running in and crapping threads. As someone above said its become clear that it is a vendetta against Thor for some. If it is great, admit it, come clean and post clearly to all that XDA will not allow discussion of Thor, or moderate those who are crapping threads and let the discussion continue.
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One of the things about XDA, is that you can discuss general things regardless. And of people have issues with a rom, no matter who it comes from, then that falls under the apache license. Not GPL which has to do with the kernel itself. Something to that effect.
Discussing Thors rom, does not violate any license agreement, nor XDA policy. Direct links to Thors kernel, or rom or code containing such kernel, does.
This has been stated by Mod's time and time again. Some people, just don't get it, and use any mention of the name, as an excuse to "carry on the crusade", most of whom have not an inkling of what happened in the first place. They just react on what is recently known, and then again, only "hearsay".
So to discuss problem with an android rom, regardless of where it came from, is quite ok. But if the "crusaders" (on both ends) cause too much of a ruckus, which normally happens, the Mods will shut it down.
If people keep it civil, then things will be ok. Discuss the problems at hand, and ignore those who get their jollies trying to turn it into something else.

Not another Erica Post!!!!!!! Ohhh no!!!!
I Totally agree with Moscow..For me the biggest issue is . I see and post to all the threads Asking for Acer to release ICS. Then there are threads asking for GPL Compliant ICS. In those threads the flaming starts when people come in shouting there is ics and im running it now. Go to Here xxxxx to get it.. Its perfect its good the dev is above and beyond all..
The above is what has started this flaming war.. IF someone starts posting that he is so great so much above and better then everyone else. The flaming will start. As stated above i kinda agree that discussing issues solving basic android apps and issues on his rom is likely ok. But when People start putting xxxx as being better then everyone else is again when it will become a flaming thread. Unfortunately xda is a community for all.Everyone will give there opinion.Its a two sided story.I was using the above mentioned stuff until way back.I seen everything that went wrong.it would have took one Tiny Link to Source code solve this whole mess.
so keep this thread clean from the he has the right to not share and you MIGHT NOT GET FLAMED. IF you are lucky.. Whats right is Right.and there is a huge wrong happening.As i FLAME If you will ACER Everyday in email facebook twitter there automated help on there website. Over the boot loader . Will it help NO. But like equality for all in the US. sitting on your butt surely will fail..
Just my 3.well maybe 4 pennies..
Sorry if this is considered out of line for your Thread..
As far as cornerstone. I really do hope he gets its Working within his rom.As this is something that can be stripped out and Used in the Acer rom when pushed.Thou im not sure how will it will work with the acer ring as that also makes major changes to the same files as cornerstone.
Peacefully .. Me

Moscow Desire said:
Discussing Thors rom, does not violate any license agreement, nor XDA policy. Direct links to Thors kernel, or rom or code containing such kernel, does.
This has been stated by Mod's time and time again. Some people, just don't get it,....
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And this is the issue I am bringing up! I miss read the policy. The thread where I posted the direct link to Thor was locked. That was fine. I created a new thread that did not LINK. It DISCUSSED. It was 100% within the posted and stated rules of XDA, but that thread was DELETED!!
As for what really happened, I too was around, and read all the same threads you read. The issue of hosting the ROM is very cut and dry, it is not XDA material. The issue of if Thors ROM is legal, warez, violation of GPL etc is NOT cut and dry and is very much in a grey area. You can argue all you want about the rights or wrongs (ok, maybe not on this board!! ) of how Thor was treated by XDA mods etc.
I just want to make sure people passing through know about another GREAT ROM for a great tablet, and would also like to see XDA get back to being a well moderated (even handed) forum that is open to all discussion on relevant topics.

Aaron Camp said:
The issue of if Thors ROM is legal, warez, violation of GPL etc is NOT cut and dry and is very much in a grey area.
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Just pointing out that that is not true. It is in violation of GPL, that's that. It is a fact, not "grey area."

WereCatf said:
Just pointing out that that is not true. It is in violation of GPL, that's that. It is a fact, not "grey area."
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Well, you stretch the truth. To suit your needs.
Discussing of Thors rom breaks no rule. The "rom" itself does not fall under GPL, but under Apache. Only the specific kernel falls under GPL.
Now, if I flash RTripps kernel, using Thor's rom, are you to say I am violating GPL? No, and neither is RTripp or Thor.
GPL specifically states "Kernel".
So if a user, wants to ask questions, about a specific rom, well, nobody is violating any rules. Which is why the mods, have not intervened.
Of course if the cross comes to bear,,, well, that's just the way it is.

Moscow Desire said:
Discussing of Thors rom breaks no rule.
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I never claimed that. Just look at the previous page where I said people should be allowed to discuss it.
The "rom" itself does not fall under GPL, but under Apache. Only the specific kernel falls under GPL.
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As long as the kernel is distributed as part of it, then yes, it does. If he were to distribute them separately then what you claim would be true.
GPL specifically states "Kernel".
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No, it doesn't. GPL applies to any GPL-licensed software.
So if a user, wants to ask questions, about a specific rom, well, nobody is violating any rules. Which is why the mods, have not intervened.
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Again, you're barking up the wrong tree there.

Aaron Camp said:
And this is the issue I am bringing up! I miss read the policy. The thread where I posted the direct link to Thor was locked. That was fine. I created a new thread that did not LINK. It DISCUSSED. It was 100% within the posted and stated rules of XDA, but that thread was DELETED!!
As for what really happened, I too was around, and read all the same threads you read. The issue of hosting the ROM is very cut and dry, it is not XDA material. The issue of if Thors ROM is legal, warez, violation of GPL etc is NOT cut and dry and is very much in a grey area. You can argue all you want about the rights or wrongs (ok, maybe not on this board!! ) of how Thor was treated by XDA mods etc.
I just want to make sure people passing through know about another GREAT ROM for a great tablet, and would also like to see XDA get back to being a well moderated (even handed) forum that is open to all discussion on relevant topics.
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The real problem is the fact that any discussions on Thor or his works immediately brings about the heated arguments from both sides of the fence. There is just very little possibility that people here can carry on a discussion that is JUST about the ROM and issues/experiences using it. There are only a few ways it can be carried out here (and seriously correct me if you think I am wrong):
You start your nice thread to discuss issues with Thor's ICS ROM, you put in your OP that this is simply a discussion, no linking allowed, you can even put a disclaimer like "If anyone has an issue with this discussion, please bring to a MOD's attention instead of posting your opposition here". But...
1. someone feels it is their responsibility to post why they are against this. Or...
2. someone is going to post asking why we cannot provide a link, or where to find the ROM, or why isn't it in the development section... or...
3. someone is going to feel they need to retaliate when someone does one of the above.
Either way, one outcome, the argument will get heated, and the mods will be forced to step in and take action. If they feel there is no salvation for the thread, they will close or delete it. End of discussion.
So, really, the content of the discussion is not really the issue at hand, but how the discussions are generally (always?) carried out.

What happened to tytung

i have been off from xda lately due to my admission process.logged in some time ago and saw that tytung has stopped support on xda and all his threads closed.why did this happen.can someone shed a light on this.
I am not offending anybody's decision. Just curious
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda premium

Whats happened to tytung

Ah that's a real shame. He put out some great ROMs but that's what happens when you don't obey the rules I guess. It's also nice to see that the mods are completely unbiased and won't give members preferential treatment due to their titles.

Oddly, tytung's threads were all closed apparently because he stated that he would not support them (although he did update). That is the reason given in @kinfauns closing post(s). This is the first time that I am aware of, of threads being closed due to lack of support by the dev. And I can see no rule which states that a dev MUST provide support.
In fact (some) support for these threads was being provided by members, and that is the case for many threads in which the developer/OP is no longer contributing to xda for whatever reason.
People using tytung's roms and needing support on xda, have no choice now but to seek support from "another place". Is it the intention of xda to force people to use a rival site? Or is it to stop people from promoting a rival site and therefore breaking xda rules?
I am just a bit confused as to why these threads were closed, any clarification would be appreciated.

I agree with Robbie p that the threads should be kept open for the users to help each other. Still if the mods are against it we can have a support thread in the general section.
Feels to lose a great dev
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda premium

It more looks like few moderators are simply emotionally hurt(you know what I mean) because Tytung's left.
No seriously, this is dumb. I can't post and provide ANY support for Tytungs ROM's(as many other people who got knowledge) because someone closed threads.
Even if there's no Tytung's, WE can provide basic support, for older iterations of ROM. There's much magic still to be done with HD2 android.
This is abusive. Mod responsible for this kind of damage should be punished.

Robbie P said:
Oddly, tytung's threads were all closed apparently because he stated that he would not support them (although he did update). That is the reason given in @kinfauns closing post(s). This is the first time that I am aware of, of threads being closed due to lack of support by the dev. And I can see no rule which states that a dev MUST provide support.
In fact (some) support for these threads was being provided by members, and that is the case for many threads in which the developer/OP is no longer contributing to xda for whatever reason.
People using tytung's roms and needing support on xda, have no choice now but to seek support from "another place". Is it the intention of xda to force people to use a rival site? Or is it to stop people from promoting a rival site and therefore breaking xda rules?
I am just a bit confused as to why these threads were closed, any clarification would be appreciated.
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disclaimer ....the following reply is only my opinions
i agree with you ..there are many threads in the hd2 android dev section that should also be closed for no dev support ..in fact 98 percent of them shold be closed for lack of dev support
but what i think was the underlying problem was his links for roms went to links that generated money for him..
and i know if i was a dev that had 3 or 4 different rom threads i wouldnt wanna have to monitor 3 or 4 different q/a&t threads for those roms either that would make 6 or 8 threads a dev would have to monitor ,most dont have the time for that
hell you can see the activity in both sections has almost ground to a crawl ..its as if xda is slowly trying to fade out the hd2 android section
dont be surprised if you see some of the few remaining devs stop making roms and move on to something else
and those posts about about this being a dev thread please post in the q&a section blah blah blah are not helpfull to anyone and just clutter up the dev threads even more then offtopic posts do ..xda is trying to do much to late .ive been on xda since 2010 and there was never a problem with how the threads were maintained and handled ..
hell if the wanna do something good for the forum ..then they should change the signup rules and stop all the lazy people from just coming in new and immediatly posting about something that they couldve searched and read about but are to lazy to and want it all handed to them on a silver plate .....also they could remove people like abumaha who has never posted a single post about how good a rom is ..but always post how do i do this and why doesnt this rom work
ok im off my soapbox now

^ Still don't believe that abumaha is somehow still here :') But yeah I agree with Kam, things haven't been done completely correctly IMO.
Sent from my Nexus 4

+1 to kameirus i agree 143%
and abuhama.. just lol
on off topic on topic, if you want to find tytung , just google "forum tytung android" and you should find his forums

Everyone knows the mod's in question were just looking for an excuse they could give. He had dropped a new hd2 rom about 2 or 3 weeks prior. He had instructions on how to install it in post 1. Exactly how much "support" does a dev have to provide the users anyway? It was bs plain and simple....oh and if you looked at his status later they knocked him down to a "Senior Member"......I haven't seen any of the OTHER idle dev's getting their status pulled for being "idle".
As mentioned..they've done an excellent job of killing off the hd2 forum....there is almost no active development going on and the closest rom to tytungs still has a long list of things marked "not working". Tytung was also the only one producing recent jelly bean kernels with hd2 specific fixes so everything worked.

famewolf said:
1. Exactly how much "support" does a dev have to provide the users anyway? It was bs plain and simple....oh and if you looked at his status later they knocked him down to a "Senior Member"......I haven't seen any of the OTHER idle dev's getting their status pulled for being "idle".
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now that was very low from them
famewolf said:
As mentioned..they've done an excellent job of killing off the hd2 forum....there is almost no active development going on and the closest rom to tytungs still has a long list of things marked "not working". Tytung was also the only one producing recent jelly bean kernels with hd2 specific fixes so everything worked.
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That's right. all they're doing is killing the HD2 forums ...
i had reported all the "thread closed" posts by that mod, and i got:
tytung was not being picked on. This action was not taken lightly, or by kinfauns alone. tytung left us no choices.
Thank you,
mikef
XDA Senior Moderator
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but in addition to close his threads, they also lowered him to senior member???
sorry if this is rude, but kinda reminds me of when a kid has his candy bar stoled, and he does everything to take revenge and take it back. enough for me

I do not know who made the decision re Tytung, but it was not made by a matured intellect. I have run systems since 1979 (with over 35 years as a senior networks systems/operations engineer) and have dealt with many experienced administrators, moderators and sysops, and the way this was handled shows nothing but ego-driven/threatened immaturity.
Shame on XDA.

MarkAtHome said:
I do not know who made the decision re Tytung, but it was not made by a matured intellect. I have run systems since 1979 (with over 35 years as a senior networks systems/operations engineer) and have dealt with many experienced administrators, moderators and sysops, and the way this was handled shows nothing but ego-driven/threatened immaturity.
Shame on XDA.
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It does feel like some immature revenge.
It's not like only Tytung's got punished, but XDA users who were using his ROM's
I got unnerving thought, that this whole action is to bury HD2 development and make it Low legacy. While it's still in it's strenght despite old age
Shame on you XDA

MarkAtHome said:
I do not know who made the decision re Tytung, but it was not made by a matured intellect. I have run systems since 1979 (with over 35 years as a senior networks systems/operations engineer) and have dealt with many experienced administrators, moderators and sysops, and the way this was handled shows nothing but ego-driven/threatened immaturity.
Shame on XDA.
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yeah! i just bet anyone who made this decision to port android and then build it from source and support a device that was never intended to run android in the first place!

Some of you may remember me from back in the "glory days" of Android on the HD2 when Cotulla and Darkstone were making the very first ROMs. I was here daily loading new builds, even when you could not turn the screen off one time or you'd get the SOD. That was when you could only do it through haret.
Fast forward a bit and we had magldr and cLK and where we really had a million options. Personally after a while I would pretty much stick with ACA on SD dual booted with WP7, but there were some really cool things out there to do. I spent many hours trying to troubleshoot people to flash hspl 2.08 or the right radio or to NOT flash certain radios etc. to get things going right.
Tytung was one of the greats as far as ROM and kernel development, and I am not prevaricating when I tell you that there is no XDA Staff on this site who does not respect what Tytung brought to the table. To put it in very simple yet eloquent terms: Dude had skill...
But our standing policy at XDA has always been that we do not keep open development threads with no support. Due to the fact that we just don't talk about individual dealings in public at XDA for privacy concerns we cannot get into specifics. But I can tell you that XDA has zero to gain from a developer such as that no longer supporting development threads here.
When something like this happens, there is no "victory" and no winner. sometimes things just don't work out for various reasons, and then sometimes things work out just fine in the end.
I can respect the disappointment and ambivalence on this matter, and believe me when I say that the HD2 is still a mighty device worthy of respect. I still own an HD2 along with all of the other devices I use, and it can still do some cool stuff. I wouldn't consider it a Legacy Device just yet!

orangekid said:
...
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We understand all of this, but why close the threads? If you check the second or third page of the development forum and further, you can see many, and I mean MANY threads of ROMs which are either discontinued or whose developers moved onto other things, other devices. Yet, they are still open, and from time to time you see people bringing them back to surface and getting help. Just because the developer ceased support, it doesn't mean the threads should be closed. Delete his links, remove his other websites, just keep the threads open for members' discussion.
If the developer haven't requested a closure, I don't see a reason why they should be closed.

Marvlesz said:
We understand all of this, but why close the threads? If you check the second or third page of the development forum and further, you can see many, and I mean MANY threads of ROMs which are either discontinued or whose developers moved onto other things, other devices. Yet, they are still open, and from time to time you see people bringing them back to surface and getting help. Just because the developer ceased support, it doesn't mean the threads should be closed. Delete his links, remove his other websites, just keep the threads open for members' discussion.
If the developer haven't requested a closure, I don't see a reason why they should be closed.
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When a developer publicly announces he will no longer follow the rules, no longer support his work posted here, and is actively trying to recruit members away from XDA to his new site, what do you really expect us to do? Cooperate with this effort? Seriously? Sure there are lots of other threads that have been effectively abandoned by their dev/OP when they moved on to a new device, but we simply do not have the luxury of time to go sift through thousands of threads to find them. When they are reported, we evaluate the situation and then act on it according to our guidelines.
Decisions like this are never made quickly, lightly, or on the fly by a single mod here. Now, I am closing this thread and I would appreciate it if no further threads were opened on this topic as it won't help to resolve the situation but will only make it worse.
You all do not know all of the facts in this situation, nor will you as we must respect tytung's privacy in his communications with us so we will not divulge them publicly. tytung is not banned or blacklisted, and is welcome to return here should he change his mind about following the rules. If he does not want to do that, it is entirely up to him.
Thank you,
mikef
XDA Senior Moderator