Related
I really don't want this to come across wrong, but I just have to say it.
Developers, I appreciate all your hard work. I understand this is all beta/test/etc. I understand it is free of cost, even to those who did donate to one dev or another. You do it because you want to, not because you have to.
But please, for the love of all that's good - keep an updated list of Known Issues!
It sucks having to read 50 pages of posts to try to figure out if a particular release is reliable or not, to find out if there's a key feature broken or buggy. What makes it worse is you can't tell when reading these threads which users are on which release, because many still post issues after they've been resolved. Others post things that aren't really "issues" but user error.
You know what your issues are, you read the threads and you fix the issues. But trying to find a decent rom to flash is very, very difficult when your OP says "No known problems" and the thread that follows show that to be very untrue. It generates a lot of extra posts with people posting things you already know about, and it generates a lot of bad will when someone flashes something only to find that there are a number of game breaking issues.
All it takes is to update a post, say #2, in your thread, with KNOWN ISSUES. Once you confirm a bug, whether you intend to fix it on your next release or not, add it to that thread. It helps you, as a dev keep track of the bug, and it helps potential downloaders know what bugs have been confirmed and make an educated decision as to whether they want to install your release.
Hiding known issues is something I don't think anyone does intentionally, but it feels that way sometimes. It feels like devs are in a popularity contest, and any admission of flaws in their particular ROM is a weakness. Well, to tell the truth, I and many others are sick of installing something that was CLAIMED to be working perfectly, only to have glaring problems that have been there for many versions.
For a civil and productive development community. Please. Be honest with your known issues. It will go a long way in building trust with the people who you're providing ROMs to, and will mean fewer posts for YOU to wade through of users reporting known issues, without having read 500 posts first.
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
They don't care to list them. It's beneath some of them.
Maybe AirBus should list "midair exploding engines" as a known issue too...
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
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+1. Hell, at work I run a $100,000.00+ software suite and even that company won't do what the OP suggests!
If you have a problem with them stop using their roms go back to stock and see how much better theirs is even with a few bugs, not one of you has any right to complain. They do damn good work for free with some donations that do not come close to what they should be paid for it but they do not whine at all.
The problem I find is the "spammy" and useless comments average and pretentious users make which is both hard for the developer and the end user to read the threads. A dev releases a ROM and there is a guaranteed "Oh I can't wait to flash this" comment that will pop up. And there are some issues that are minor and are sometimes not related to the release that are posted and some pretentious loser who extends his ego by trying to make simple matters complicated. This forum didn't much of this problem before and I could quickly flash ROMs easily since I could clearly grasp the status on the ROM project.
I wish they would start a new thread with new releases. It's a pain to try to read through a 500 page thread, and you comments about this or that, and you have no idea which version the person is talking about. I gave up on custom roms and just using the leaked tmo 2.2, thanks for that Eugene
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
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A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
Update: Here is the link for the WIKI page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
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You are in a heap of trouble, a lot of people don't read, and you are gonna get 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 repeats of the same issue.
"OMG! MY SD CAR DONES"T MOUNT< HELP ME!11!!111"
chui101 said:
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
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The issue here is really that a forum is not the ideal place to manage software releases. A list of bugs emerges from community testing, but there's nowhere to "post" that list of issues, or attach it to a specific release. Since there's no way for the community to add such documentation, it falls on the ROM builder, who probably has other priorities.
This kind of project could be well served by using a real software project management software solution, such as say google code, which has an issue tracker and other useful features. But XDA does already give us a better tool than the forum - the XDA wiki!
I wish people would use the XDA wiki more extensively. This would be a good place to keep updated documentation such as this, without requiring the OP to keep a forum post updated with the latest findings. All the OP needs to do is link to the wiki page, and other people can help maintain it.
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
swehes said:
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
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Depends on the project. The Linux kernel is GPLv2, so any kernels fall under that license. AOSP as a whole uses both GPL and apache code.
The issue with ROMs is that unless they're AOSP derived (like cyanogenmod) they often include binaries for which the license situation is murky at best, so google code isn't really an ideal fit for a "ROM" that's only ever released as a binary.
Really I was throwing google code out there as a well known example, there are tons of other ways to track issues. There are dedicated issue tracking systems such as trac, bugzilla, etc, but they require hosting. Most of the freely available hosted services require that you're running an open source project, which isn't necessarily true for the ROMs here.
IMO a serious project could very well benefit from such tools, but just using an XDA wiki page which community members can freely update is a great first step.
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
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Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
Stargazer3777 said:
Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
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Thanks. On both accounts.
Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft
To quote "there are known, unknowns and unknown, knowns and and even sometimes unknown,unknowns............but.........
Developers ----develop they do not become a bookkeeper of their development.........that is coordinating work...........good luck getting any developer in ANY Specialty to do that............. reporting bugs........
---Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft---
N8ter said:
A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
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I have yet to see a REAL (completely dead) "bricked" vibrant from flashing a released Rom alone. I have seen a lot of user error cause boot loops or "soft-bricks" & HWL phones become unflashable because the end user didn't take the time to research though. As far as devs being "lazy" I dont really see that when the developer is coming here for us to tell him what else we find wrong. They are coding, you flash, you report back with a logcat. This is how development is made to my understanding. If ppl are to lazy to JUST do this then why shouldn't the developer discount long winded post or something they are not experiencing? If they know there is a bug its in the OP.
If you guys can change the interwebz & how 500 post per update are made completely useless please feel free to do so....
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
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I think it's a pretty awesome start for sure
As a matter of personal taste, I think having an individual wiki page per ROM (with the known issues and other detailed info) might be nice, although I'm not sure what the policy on new pages is with the XDA wiki.
Speaking from professional experience, the most challenging aspect of any documentation system is always convincing people to use it. It's great to compile the information, but unless ROM builders and devs post a link to the wiki in the forum threads nobody will ever see it. Having good, community based documentation is a benefit to everybody though, so hopefully people will recognize the utility of it and encourage its growth!
Please start a new thread when you put out a new version of your rom.
By the time the second version comes out for the really good roms it's impossible to follow all the issues as there can be upwards of 1000 posts in the thread. Starting at the back doesn't help because of all the "how's your battery life?" posts. Then again, maybe that's the problem.
Anyway, I REALLY appreciate the work you guys do on these roms and kernels. I just wish it were easier to follow the flow of development.
Thanks for listening.
<flame retardant shield UP>
+1 .... i am with you !!!
+1 . Yeah it so annoying to go through thousands of old threads...
Moved to general
Moved? Do the people I'm talking to ever look in "general?"
I support this all the way people always tell everyone to use search but you barely ever get what your looking for..
michaelh99 said:
Please start a new thread when you put out a new version of your rom.
By the time the second version comes out for the really good roms it's impossible to follow all the issues as there can be upwards of 1000 posts in the thread. Starting at the back doesn't help because of all the "how's your battery life?" posts. Then again, maybe that's the problem.
Anyway, I REALLY appreciate the work you guys do on these roms and kernels. I just wish it were easier to follow the flow of development.
Thanks for listening.
<flame retardant shield UP>
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+100000000
Great suggestion. totally agree.
michaelh99 said:
Moved? Do the people I'm talking to ever look in "general?"
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Well it doesn't have anything to do with developing..
Although you do make a pretty good point, it is a LOT easier just to update the thread with a new download link & change log.
It would also cut down on a lot of clutter in that section.
If you are running an older version of what that dev posted, you shouldn't post bugs unless it didn't say it was fixed in the newest version of what they posted.
Master™ said:
Well it doesn't have anything to do with developing..
Although you do make a pretty good point, it is a LOT easier just to update the thread with a new download link & change log.
It would also cut down on a lot of clutter in that section.
If you are running an older version of what that dev posted, you shouldn't post bugs unless it didn't say it was fixed in the newest version of what they posted.
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Click to collapse
Master, your thread specifically is almost impossible to follow because of the almost 10,000 posts in it.
The easy fix to your update example above:
1) go to post for last release
2) hit edit
3) Ctrl-A to select all and Ctrl-C to copy
4) Hit Cancel
5) Open new thread and Ctrl-V to paste
6) edit pasted text and hit preview
7) review the post and make corrections as needed
8) hit submit and wait for the flood
T313C0mun1s7 said:
Master, your thread specifically is almost impossible to follow because of the almost 10,000 posts in it.
The easy fix to your update example above:
1) go to post for last release
2) hit edit
3) Ctrl-A to select all and Ctrl-C to copy
4) Hit Cancel
5) Open new thread and Ctrl-V to paste
6) edit pasted text and hit preview
7) review the post and make corrections as needed
8) hit submit and wait for the flood
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Click to collapse
9. Delete the old thread.
I think it's more of a "Let's see whose thread can get the mot posts" type of thing. Because it actually makes little to no sense to update a thread from months ago that is full of non-existent issues and then ask people to search through that thread as if the answer is supposed to jump out at them. Luckily I have given up on trying to read threads.
kangxi said:
9. Delete the old thread.
I think it's more of a "Let's see whose thread can get the mot posts" type of thing. Because it actually makes little to no sense to update a thread from months ago that is full of non-existent issues and then ask people to search through that thread as if the answer is supposed to jump out at them. Luckily I have given up on trying to read threads.
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Well first, you cannot delete your own threads nor close them.
There is a search button in the threads for a reason also..
I guess it could be a thing to get people into saying what version they are on when they report a bug/ask a question..
Just a thought
I have to say I kinda agree with the OP, although obviously from your point of view its just making work.
I run your Axura 2.1 ROM Master, and was feeling a little lag from it here and there. I was looking for one piece of information... "can I use OCLF with this ROM"... had bad experiences with Voodoo in the past.
Man, it was no mean feat to find this out. Eventually, I put the new Voodoo kernel on my phone and its running flawlessly (utterly love this ROM by the way man. Seriously. Better than anything out there by a royal mile), but it was a hugely frustrating process to figure out whether I had any other options. To get a definitive answer. Just to find something simple.
I've often asked people direct questions in PM, and got no response, or at least an unhelpful one. As a technical guy, but not a developer, any questions I have are usually pretty specific, and not newbie in nature, and finding the answer is a massive problem. One of the biggest hurdles to this is 1000+ post threads.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Master™ said:
Well first, you cannot delete your own threads nor close them.
There is a search button in the threads for a reason also..
I guess it could be a thing to get people into saying what version they are on when they report a bug/ask a question..
Just a thought
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Personally I think the old threads should remain anyhow. They help to keep the versions separate, not everyone upgrades right away. People should post in the correct thread for their version, but right not this is not possible.
Also, the old, dead thread clean up is not the responsibility of the OP, but of the forum admin. I have owned and run many forums. I have used ikonboard, vBulletin, Invision Power Board, MyBB, Phorum, phpBB, and my favorite Simple Machines Forum. All of them have in the administrative back end the option to cleanup old dead threads with no posts with a set time frame.
Problem is rom gets updated, 300 posts of "OMG Thank You, flashing soon!!!!"
They don't care.. The only thing they care about is getting donations. Higher post conts = more attention = more donations. In summary: they do not care
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
grennis said:
They don't care.. The only thing they care about is getting donations. Higher post conts = more attention = more donations. In summary: they do not care
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Sorry, gotta call BS on this one. Based on recent events I can guess that you are speaking at least generally if not specifically to Master, and he already addressed (IN THIS VERY THREAD) his thoughts both for and against. In fact so far he has been the ONLY developer to come forward and state he would be willing to do this.
Your statement does not contribute in any way to the discussion at hand, and I personally to not appreciate anyone that posts in running threads just to flamebait and be defamatory. Please check yourself.
I think an easier and better solution exists.
The problem for us the users is that we cannot find which posts relate to which rom version, correct?
The problem for developers if we choose to open a new thread for every release is to follow all 20 threads.
An easy solution would be to have one thread for the rom as it is now, BUT with every update of the rom (and the first page) the developer can add another post with update details at the end of his thread (basically a simple post reply) and put a link to it on the first page in the change log.
This way people viewing the change log will have links to the parts of the thread that discuss that update, while developers won't have 20 threads to maintain.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Whether you are following 20 threads or the same number of posts in 1 thread the work is the same because you have to reply either way. Also, all versions in 1 thread plus people still using old versions leads to confusion, and confusion equals having to clarify which ultimately means more posts. If you subscribe to the threads and use proper subjects for the thread you should get an e-mail that not only tells you there was a reply, but to which thread version and you can prioritize your replies, ie. Current version I will answer that now, 3 versions back and he can wait until I am done with what I am working on or else he can upgrade. Also since the older threads will get posted to less frequently the chance of multiple posts after the e-mail is less, so if the question is something that was fixed in a newer version you can decide it is not even worth your time to reply. As a developer you can not do that now because there may be many replies after the one that triggered your subscription e-mail that you will not see until you visit the forum.
Trust me, I have run a BUNCH of forums, and 1 thread per version is a better idea for many reasons you have not even thought of yet. If you fully think it out you will realize that it is actually easier to keep track of the 2 or 3 most resent threads people actually pay attention to then try to track the last 2 or 3 versions in 1 thread.
I've run a few big forums too so I do know what im talking about.
With 95% of users upgrade to a newer version of the rom there would be no need to keep the threads for the old roms because no one will write there. But you can't delete them. So instead of having 20 threads with 20 roms, we will have 400 threads for 20 versions of those 20 roms if we follow your idea
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Hello guys,
I know this thread is not directly about a ROM, but this is where this thread belongs because it directly involves the OPs of all these threads... so please read my suggestion.
There is an ever increasing amount of flaming going on here, mostly shooting down newbies for asking the same questions over and over again. I have a suggestion which would be very useful for avoiding the repetitive questions as well as the bad vibes and time wasted generated by so much flaming.
My suggestion is to have all OPs of a thread, make post #2 or post #3 available SPECIFICALLY as an up-to-date info aggregating post... so:
1/ in the FIRST post of the thread, mention is made and a link given to a post (perhaps post #2 or 3) which is dedicated to NEW FINDINGS and WORK AROUNDS.
2/ Someone volunteers to update this post, a beta tester or friend of the OP's or a fan of that specific ROM. the would start and edit/maintain this post #2 or #3 each time a new finding is made (delete helvetica on Darky 7.5, for example)
3/ instead of reading dozens of posts of wasted energy flaming people (it makes ZERO difference and ONLY serves to make the flamer look arrogant and unfriendly) we could all politely point newbies and confused old farters like myself to the first post and post #2 or #3 where they can get useful information without being expected to waste hours reading hundreds of useless comments or failing to find what you want by searching.
4/ Searching only happens when you ALREADY have a problem you need to solve. This idea of post #2 or #3 being used for important new info would tell people ALL they need to know, so if they read that, they would not need to search! IMO searching can take a long time, and XDA limits you to one search per 30 seconds, which DISCOURAGES searching!?
IMO it is not THAT much effort for one person to take on this job per thread...
What do you think?
tx
Mark.
I totally agree with you but you probably know that keeping a post up to date is hard as you can't constantly be on xda.
A solution could be allowing multiple users modifying one same post so updating won't rely on one person.
But I don't know if this is currently feasible.
If you check out Doc's thread, this is basically what he does already. Several posts chock full of information with the most revelant addons, fixes, changelogs, etc.
chambo622 said:
If you check out Doc's thread, this is basically what he does already. Several posts chock full of information with the most revelant addons, fixes, changelogs, etc.
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Hi
Yes, to some extent this is done on Doc's thread, though it contains (or has in the past when I was using doc's roms and reading those tips) some stuff which is outdated/irrelevant/incorrect an it is a bit disorganised.
I would love to see some kind of standardisation, so anyone trying out a new rom can read about the rom in the first post, and read the second post to see what the latest findings/fixes/issues are.
For sure, Doc's is a lot more informative than most...
Tx
Mark
Any specific information you'd like to see? If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them best I can.
I (at least try to) keep a detailed, up-to-date FAQ on my ROM's page. The problem is, not many people are asking questions.
I'm guilty of chastising folks sometimes too, especially the ones that come on here complaining that their phone is dead and how Samsung sucks because THEY didn't bother reading threads on how to properly flash, or not paying attention and flashing a captivate rom on a vibrant or a i9000m, whatever.
When I have a problem and need to ask a question, I've already spent time searching the net, searching xda, and reading related threads. I guess it is much easier just to hit "new post". How about a forum rule where it is mandatory to actually search, read the stickies, and the first few pages of a rom thread before posting? Or maybe a new thread should be created for every new ROM revision, with the thread title for older versions changed to include "OBSOLETE"?
Also, finding specific information in this forum is quite difficult sometimes because it is spread across hundreds of threads, sometimes buried a few hundred pages in. Another problem is that the i9000 is grouped in with the i9000m, and honestly, there should be a subforum specifically for the i9000m, where we can store all the QQ posts about SD failures and the like. Save the main forums for information we can actually use.
Just my 2 pesos... for what its worth.
This suggestion only covers part of the problem, the other problem is aspiring rom chefs was also shot down by fanboys of more established rom chefs. And as a result, not many would venture into rom cooking anymore.
While I have utmost respect for the chefs, what irks me most is fanboys calling others as thieves... Pathetic....
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
g00ndu said:
While I have utmost respect for the chefs, what irks me most is fanboys calling others as thieves... Pathetic....
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Hi there,
I agree its definitely not constructive, people taking out their anger on others is uncool regardless of who-how-why.
shadoslayer said:
How about a forum rule where it is mandatory to actually search, read the stickies, and the first few pages of a rom thread before posting?
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Click to collapse
most of this is already a requirement/request when you join the forum, but flamers get all self righteous and hammer anyone they deem has not done their homework.
searches are very fallible. if you search for a generally used word you come up with way too much, and search too narrow and you are likely to miss something. I was looking for "battery fix" because that is what the thread title mentioned, but in the actual thread it was called "battery drain" or something, so I did not find the "battery fix" and had to ask.
all these little important things that sit somewhere in a 1000 page thread need to be collected and put somewhere immediately after the first post...
IMO that would make the XDA experience more pleasant for more people!
Mark.
I agree its desperately needed .
Whats happening is that other forums mention the various roms .
Owners then download the rom without even the most basic knowledge of roms Odin flashing etc expect them to be just like factory roms . Get into trouble refuse to read page 1 ask for help often on subjects beyond their very limited knowledge .
jje
fredphoesh said:
Hi there,
I agree its definitely not constructive, people taking out their anger on others is uncool regardless of who-how-why.
most of this is already a requirement/request when you join the forum, but flamers get all self righteous and hammer anyone they deem has not done their homework.
searches are very fallible. if you search for a generally used word you come up with way too much, and search too narrow and you are likely to miss something. I was looking for "battery fix" because that is what the thread title mentioned, but in the actual thread it was called "battery drain" or something, so I did not find the "battery fix" and had to ask.
all these little important things that sit somewhere in a 1000 page thread need to be collected and put somewhere immediately after the first post...
IMO that would make the XDA experience more pleasant for more people!
Mark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree for an extent. There are a few exceptions however:
1) There have been some cases where people have knowingly presented assumptions as fact... REPEATEDLY! Even after it is questioned. So flaming in that case might not be nice, but flaming is the only way to get them to go away. One such example was when someone was telling everyone "Google Mytrack is buggy, not the GPS". He refused to provide adequate evidence. RAM's another area where everyone is a professional, but none of the professionals have proof..
2) There are also a growing number of users who are blatantly IGNORING strong warnings about some ROM's.... And many of these are users with no development skills, or who haven't even tested official roms first. Then when something goes wrong, they demand help from the community, and later they bug the poor developers, who already knew there were serious bugs.
3) And then, there are the people who don't try to solve their own problem first. Granted, some searches CAN be missed. However, we are often seeing questions which often obviously can't be answered by the community (such as "when will Samsung release Gingerbread for SGS"). Well, clearly in that case, it would be best to speak to Samsung (duh). Or "my sd card is dead, will AT&T replace it". Clearly they should speak to AT&T
4) Then there are the guys too lazy to bother with basic fault fixing skills "my phone jammed up.. What do i do?"
I do agree in general it would be nice if things were friendlier. However, in some cases, I'm not sure if we should embrace people who were mentioned above....
What we really need is a thread designed as a faq consolidating answers
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
2. More Mods! I think just one or two more mods can help the forums a lot and clean things up.
3. Warnings for people who post questions that have already been answered on the front page of a thread or faq followed by a temp ban if they continue.
I'm really tired of the cycle of
- Dumb question posted
- Followed by "read the damn thread or use the damn search button"
- Followed by "Hey you were a noob once and theres no harm in answering the question you ass along with lengthy answer on the question that will inevitable be asked 10 more times in the near future"
- Continue flame war that now has nothing to do with the thread anymore
You enable people by holding their hands. Don't be an enabler. If you managed to find out how to do all this crap on your own, they can too. At most you should point them to the right thread and let them read up on it on their own so they can further their own education.
4. Don't PM the Devs for requests. They have enough work on their hands and don't need to be flooded. Remember the rule of think before you speak? Try thinking before you PM.
Anyhoo, there was a bunch more, but I'm sure you guys/gals have other ideas.
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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I don't understand why the "[How To] Return to Stock / Fix Bricked Epic" thread is not sticked.
If someone posts they bricked their phone and needs help you post the link to that thread and lock it.
I like the sentiment of this thread but fear it might be taken the wrong way. Whosdaman is really a wonderful guy and has been very helpful to me but it seems like he is very busy (and who can blame him for dealing with things outside of the interwebs?) so I support this I would also like to issue a blanket "Thank you for your hard work" to Whosdaman.
Seeing as this is a collection of developers I don't see why we don't customize the forum itself.
I don't see any reason we can't flag the development and Q/A threads for every phone. Then, if "is this a question" is set to yes, automatically put it in that phone's Q/A forum. On top of which we could add a "You are posting in the development forum, this is reserved for people developing for [insert phone]. Please check the box below to confirm that you are developing something you wish to share." anytime people posted in the development forum.
Obviously people can still screw it up, if nothing else on purpose, but we can expect people who have never been on the forums to know how the forums are laid out, usually by reading the rules, which never happens, to sort their own, or we can make it as self sorting as possible.
Sounds like whosedaman just needs some support. Perhaps another mod added to help out. We all have to keep in mind that these guys don't get paid for this and real life always trumps forums life. Just my thought on this.
Sent from my Epic while i should be working
I was wondering why there was so much confusion in this forum, as I really liked the forums I used for the month I had a Moment before the Epic dropped. Was there ever a forum on here for the moment??? I couldnt find one, so I checked sdx, which I remember lurking back then and found my answer. Why can't Xda have 'child forums', with descriptions of where and why to post things?? They have a 'market' forum section for ROMs, etc, which we here are using development exclusively. I understand why, but it seems its this way here because of limited tools for organizing, can this sites software not do that? It is completely logical and intuitive to post questions directly regarding development or roms in the development section if you are new... I would have expected a sub-forum for roms only, or at least some direction other than after the fact... usually unless its horribly out of order, whosdaman is pretty polite about it, and given the feelings regarding this device, things get silly in here. Anyways, yes, at least sticky all roms and things 'coolguy' or whatever dont warrant flaming, and then politely notify the new people that questions regarding development actually get booted over to general, where intuitively people would assume GENERAL questions like 'do you like gmail or the stock app better?'.
More mods? Better structure? Who has control over this? Are there any experienced volunteers that can help whosdaman out with his daunting task?
We need to expect more 'joined in Dec 2010' and later members as every idiot with a blog and engadget included seem to think this site and forum are the authority, even over Sprint and Samsung (if XDA says 2.2 is dropping, it must be true, head over there and complain about it). NOTHING against new members, just that there is little direction other than the 'rules' that most people think are just 'dont flame, no kiddie porn... etc...' Dont get all elitist because people couldnt figure out your simple, non-intuitive structure because its their first 5 mins here.
Love this forum, but its like people are baited into getting flamed by assuming this forum runs like most any other... I thought I saw the end of this when I refused to go to another BBC chat... guess not.
If you feel that you must deputize yourself, please, copy the link to the wiki, rules, etc and paste them in misplaced, repeat threads and leave it at that.
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
I'm willing to be a mod here I have experience and would know and how to handle things here...
Admins or mods pm me
sent from my Epic 4G
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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Did you do a search before posting this? There's already a thread on it, learn how to use the search.
Ok, that was my attempt at humor
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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I don't think this is fluff at all and whosdaman does deserve to be thanked for his, well, thankless work.
1488 is a race thing. They usually won't tell you what the ideology of it is in public. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Although I don't agree with the sentiment of the belief structure, I support their right to peacefully observe their beliefs.
Yeah I know that meaning its generally a tattooed target, was just hoping it was just some retarded interweb speak. Sorry to hear. Almost forgot what it was though... not many Boneheads around here, not anymore.
BTW, I respect Lady Gaga's work, although I dont like it, therefore I see no reason to put it in my username.... its ok, you have a right to be a Nazi in this country...
Regrettably, I do read almost every thread in this forum, and forums I maintain...
<--------- Look here, I have 8 forums to maintain full time, but 6 are dead lol
Yeah I do have a life outside this for sure. Not only am I a senior in High School, I am on the Mock Trial team, the Robotics Team, a Sales Representative for Sprint, and a Writer for BriefMobile.com
So yeah I would say I'm busy, but I look over the entire forum as much as I can. Shep211 has been extremely busy in his personal life, that's why I started helping.
It is a thankless job, it's a volunteer job. All free, I don't get paid. The only thanks comes from the owner of the site when I say "if you fix this the site will be better."
Besides all that I can single handedly control this entire forum. I know it sometimes looks cluttered and in a mess, but then again...the Development section is spotless, which is truely the only thing that matters. The General section is meant to be a mess because it's where everyone posts their questions and complaints.
There are applications to become a moderator here on XDA, you have to meet certain requirements to be considered and then be approved. No one of this forum knows my experience as a moderator unless you used GameBattles.com for PS3.
If you want to help me out the most, please please please, use the "Report Post" feature. Every reported post goes straight to my inbox, and I see every single one. Normally RP's get extra attention as they obviously have bothered someone enough to have it reported. 90% of the RP's are either Ghost or Kenvan.
The search feature would do alot of people good, it's nice to tell people to do something, but Report the post/thread and I'll take care of it. You clutter up the forum and threads by posting in threads saying to post in General, just report it. That's all.
Sure, I wish everyone searched because there are at least 5 can't root threads. I would rather merge them all but it too much work to find them. Like I said, let the noobs make their mistake. The members report the post, don't tell them they were wrong. I'll move it, shoot them a PM, and then post in their thread telling them where they should have posted. Then hopefully they will learn.
Thanks again,
WDM
kenvan19 said:
Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
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Sorry, fluff may have been a wrong choice of words, I was implying that as this has been talked about before, and ignored by the powers that be, I saw it was going to end up an off topic post eventually, or at least until the elitist post Nazis (no offense bigjim) came in and said how we are cluttering their precious first page of posts, because as most have trouble with the AMAZING search function, a lot here have a lot of trouble with 'next page', you dont even have to pick which page, it takes you right to the next one!
Sorry, this is just getting really retarded around here, oh and BigJim,apologies, last comment on your beliefs, if off topic, but being an anarcho-punk, its hard not to at least ask if that is REALLY what you are talking about.
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
I certainly appreciate all the hard work Whosdaman has been doing with these forums, but unless he enjoys handling all this, wouldn't an extra mod or two be helpful?
My biggest thing is the FAQ post. Someone asks questions, you can point and say you should have read that first. Like I said before, the Wiki is great, but its a little cluttered and outdated as well as being hard to edit. Having one person willing to just moderate that one thread would be so helpful.
It bugs me when the whole community seems to be represented by the lazy people who just spam post. There are plenty of helpful, polite and very well informed that get lost among the clutter. In fact, they probably outnumber the newbies but don't feel the need to post nonsense. For every idiot that asks a dumb question, there are probably 10 that actually do research and figure it out for themselves.
kenvan19 said:
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
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Nope, I love you and ghost for reporting post. I always look forward to waking up and seeing 10 new PMs lol
ungovernable1977 said:
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
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I have no control over sub-forums. And right now it is only me working on the entire Epic forum. Like I said shep211 is gone atm.
svetius is in charge of the entire site, and I've talked to him about improvements that can be made. I wouldn't bother him too much or he'll just ignore ya. Most of the time the only things he is interested is fixing errors with the site itself. Right now I don't think we are in the area of reorganizing the entire site.
ok, so adding a subforum is not possible? Or is it a decision to make the structure uniform across the whole site? Just thinking, because this forum is like maximum security, different from the rest... or so it would seem...
I'm not so sure making more areas, and thus more chances to be wrong, is a good way to combat posting in the wrong area.
If you have a rom question, ask it in the rom thread. All that would happen if there were subforums for things in development, and discussion of things in development is we'd have 37 threads about how "I just discovered ___ doesn't work in [rom]" instead of 50 posts about it in the rom thread.
(Not to mention you'd then be blurring the line of when it is or isn't ok to post in the DEV forum, where as now, if the person bothers to read, there's a pretty clear cut "If you aren't about to post about the thing you just developed, GTFO" rule.)
I have gotten multiple requests from a few devs in the past week, including myn to delete links to their mirrors posted by users. Today, I had to delete a full thread about these. Stop posting links to said nighties. Devs will release the rom when it is ready to be called "beta". The reason they have not opened a new thread about this is because some people perceive the threads like this as "feelers" or with the sole purpose to draw donations, which is by no means the intention of the devs.
This is a final warning about this.
Right on man the devs work there ass off and are always working on something new and fixing problems sucks when people on here jack there links and post them all over here and then take credit for it Happy you did something about it.
It is crap that people feel the need to do things like that. Personally, I don't mess with "nightlies" unless it says AOSP. Stoked about Myn's next release though.
I agree 100%. Glad to see swift action from the XDA Admins / Mods.
Question - Should all links of the new ROMs be off limits, including changelogs and such? For instance, I noticed a link in the Warm 2.2 thread for the changelog for Myn's Synergy ROM.
jdogg836 said:
I agree 100%. Glad to see swift action from the XDA Admins / Mods.
Question - Should all links of the new ROMs be off limits, including changelogs and such? For instance, I noticed a link in the Warm 2.2 thread for the changelog for Myn's Synergy ROM.
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Changelogs for this rom can also be found in infectedrom as well afaik. If the link to the changelog has any way to link back to a mirror or a link to obtain the rom, then I would say it should be off limits. Please link me to the post in question if you can (myn's 2.2 thread is only a gazillion pages long and I don't have all eternity to look for it )
ehh, I think the issues is people don't understand that these rom's are for the experienced user. The Synergy is not released publicly yet because their is a risk some idiot will bork, brick, ruin their phone. also if you want it so badly go to the irc channel that's your best bet for getting the latest and most proper version some user's could think they're fixing something and share it on the forum and next thing you know 20+ dead device's
/end input and rant.
Sinistertensai said:
ehh, I think the issues is people don't understand that these rom's are for the experienced user. The Synergy is not released publicly yet because their is a risk some idiot will bork, brick, ruin their phone. also if you want it so badly go to the irc channel that's your best bet for getting the latest and most proper version some user's could think they're fixing something and share it on the forum and next thing you know 20+ dead device's
/end input and rant.
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great point man.
Although I agree with their general intentions, some developers have not been acknowledging or giving access to the nightly builds even for those who have donated. It's been almost a week since I donated to a developer and have yet to even get an acknowledgement, let alone access to any nighties, and I've seen posts from others who are in the same situation. I know donating does not automatically grant access to the nighties, but I think the developers should also be more forthcoming to those who donated to them.
antiphon said:
Although I agree with their general intentions, some developers have not been acknowledging or giving access to the nightly builds even for those who have donated. It's been almost a week since I donated to a developer and have yet to even get an acknowledgement, let alone access to any nighties, and I've seen posts from others who are in the same situation. I know donating does not automatically grant access to the nighties, but I think the developers should also be more forthcoming to those who donated to them.
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My point exactly. You don't donate to a dev and get automatic access to nighties. You donate because you feel like giving someone something for their hard work and should expect nothing in return. If the dev so happens to grant access in lieu of donations so be it, all the better for you. However, if a dev did post something along the lines of "donators will receive access to nightly builds and early releases", then that is where we would have to step in, as that is considered selling "money for a good or service". Sorry but if you donated, you donated and that is the end of it.
is it ok if i give someone who i know has access to like the myn links, the V links?? cuz right now myns links are broken, but V's arent....... if not, i will stop.... just plz dont ban me
and congrats on your 10,000th post egzthunder!!!!
i made it right, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=14567216&postcount=42026, so please, dont ban me egzthunder, i was only trying to help
JGW310 said:
is it ok if i give someone who i know has access to like the myn links, the V links?? cuz right now myns links are broken, but V's arent....... if not, i will stop.... just plz dont ban me
and congrats on your 10,000th post egzthunder!!!!
i made it right, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=14567216&postcount=42026, so please, dont ban me egzthunder, i was only trying to help
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Thanks and thanks
Im posting this here, because dont know were to put this.
I think we need more moderator here in the EVO 4G Forum area, because every single Development thread, you can only see people *****ing about the same thing that is already posted, PEOPLE here Don't READ even when your are installing something in your phone that can Break it. ( If you go to a Leak ROM thread, it is clear that you cannot install thoose type of ROMs, and people always are asking that they are having issues installing the ROM, LOL)
If you go to General you can see like 10 thread of the Same Thing, In the Evo 3d Area you can see like 8 topics of Release date, 4 of Root, etc, etc.
My opinion is that we need more moderators in the Forum, The XDA community everyday is becoming bigger, so you need to take that in mind.
rockypr said:
Im posting this here, because dont know were to put this.
I think we need more moderator here in the EVO 4G Forum area, because every single Development thread, you can only see people *****ing about the same thing that is already posted, PEOPLE here Don't READ even when your are installing something in your phone that can Break it. ( If you go to a Leak ROM thread, it is clear that you cannot install thoose type of ROMs, and people always are asking that they are having issues installing the ROM, LOL)
If you go to General you can see like 10 thread of the Same Thing, In the Evo 3d Area you can see like 8 topics of Release date, 4 of Root, etc, etc.
My opinion is that we need more moderators in the Forum, The XDA community everyday is becoming bigger, so you need to take that in mind.
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Agreed. I volunteer
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
rockypr said:
Im posting this here, because dont know were to put this.
I think we need more moderator here in the EVO 4G Forum area, because every single Development thread, you can only see people *****ing about the same thing that is already posted, PEOPLE here Don't READ even when your are installing something in your phone that can Break it. ( If you go to a Leak ROM thread, it is clear that you cannot install thoose type of ROMs, and people always are asking that they are having issues installing the ROM, LOL)
If you go to General you can see like 10 thread of the Same Thing, In the Evo 3d Area you can see like 8 topics of Release date, 4 of Root, etc, etc.
My opinion is that we need more moderators in the Forum, The XDA community everyday is becoming bigger, so you need to take that in mind.
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Click to collapse
There are 3 moderators assigned here, plus I am always around as well as other Senior Mods. This place has become somewhat chaotic as of lately, but we will control it to the best of our abilities.
Google is your best friend. That's all I gotta say. *Hint*
Ya alot of flame wars going on. Sad people were stealin links and posting the devs hard work and claming it theres. Glad the ADMIN stopped it.
If you've made it a rule to close threads involving the posting of links to nightlies at least somewhere on the site there could be link to the rom!
There is a link posted. Goto the Incredible section and get it there.
rockypr said:
Im posting this here, because dont know were to put this.
I think we need more moderator here in the EVO 4G Forum area, because every single Development thread, you can only see people *****ing about the same thing that is already posted, PEOPLE here Don't READ even when your are installing something in your phone that can Break it. ( If you go to a Leak ROM thread, it is clear that you cannot install thoose type of ROMs, and people always are asking that they are having issues installing the ROM, LOL)
If you go to General you can see like 10 thread of the Same Thing, In the Evo 3d Area you can see like 8 topics of Release date, 4 of Root, etc, etc.
My opinion is that we need more moderators in the Forum, The XDA community everyday is becoming bigger, so you need to take that in mind.
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If you see anything that you feel is against the rules, or shouldn't be posted then please PM me or one of the other assigned Forum Mods for the Evo.
We can't read every individiual thread and do rely on members help. Remember this is your forum, so please help us keep it as clean as we can!
The 3 mods currently looking after this forum are:
josefcrist
toastcfh
And myself. You can PM me directly from the link in my sig.
rolfd said:
If you see anything that you feel is against the rules, or shouldn't be posted then please PM me or one of the other assigned Forum Mods for the Evo.
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THIS. rolfd has been more than helpful each and every time I have sent a private message.
Thanks!