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I was looking for a couple of threads that I had recently bookmarked to go back to later on only to find that they weren't bookmarked anymore. I spent almost an hour searching for them only to find the one specific thread in the trash. No warning or reason was given. Why was this done? I can understand if it's a thread with only a single post or perhaps even one that has become outdated (like a Cupcake release date thread) but why a thread that has 4 pages of information for a topic that doesn't have any reference for it already? Isn't this going to just create more new threads? More e-mails? More questions? Isn't this defeating the purpose of posting a new thread about a topic that hasn't been posted or stickied, if it is just going to be deleted?
If you look in the trash you will find SEVERAL Dream threads. In fact... just on the first page HALF (TEN out of TWENTY) are from the Dream thread! So just to clearify... of the dozens of different threads for different phones half of all trash is for the G1??? Isn't the trash supposed to be for SPAM?
How are these spam (just from the first page)???
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525564
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=524956
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519591
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525034
There are a few more of course but I can understand because most of the questions have been answerered and it would be faster and easier if these people used the search feature. But some haven't been. (example)
Instead of deleting the threads... merge them. But of course you get stuck with a 500+ page thread that MOST people will not read all the way through to see if the question they are about to ask has been asked/answered already. Which is of course why they post a new thread but guess what? It gets deleted and so another thread gets posted. It's never ending and I realize that this must be hard work for the mods.
So what to do?
I propose that instead of deleting these threads without reason or warning, to PM the original poster of the thread to ask of the significance of it and to provide a legitimate reason and purpose for it. Otherwise give warning or notice of the possible deletion. Of course this does not exempt the threads that are posting warez, copyright infringements and other obvious violations of memberships.
This is only my opinion and I hope that I have made an interesting point or two about this matter.
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
JanetPanic said:
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
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Yeah... okay. I agree that some of the most annoying problems with the dream thread is that people do post in the ROM Development thread. But is deleting so much easier then moving to the "Dream" thread? If so, does it out weight the inconvenience of the possiblity of the same question being reposted because it was unable to be found by the search feature?
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows. Is it really a bother that a thread is over a month old and hasn't had any recent posts? Does it really bother anyone? Of course not! They just ignore it, right? So why go through all the trouble to delete it? Some of the threads in the trash are still useful and there is absolutely no harm in keeping it in the proper catagories (ie Dream, Applications, Themes, etc).
Any mod that simply deletes a useful and recently commented thread because it was mistakenly posted under the wrong catgory instead of simply moving it, is just lazy in my own personal opinion and is doing more harm then good. Again... just my opinion.
Binary100100 said:
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows.
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That doesn't indicate that what the mods are doing is necessarily wrong, it means that new members continue to disregard the rules (posting already answered questions, posting in wrong forum, etc).
That said, I think the mods need to reevaluate how and when they do thread merges. The form of discussion in forums like these tend to be "conversation" centric. However, the threads are presented in a flat format (by default). That means that merging two threads of identical or similar topics will cause their conversations to intermix, with disastrous results. People already have piss-poor reading skills as it is.
What do you expect the moderators to do? We didn't give them a choice. The Dream forums are out of control and it would take the 3 or 4 moderators for these forums 8 hours a day not being paid to police it. You want someone to blame? Blame your fellow XDA members because there are only 2 solutions for this problem:
Get more moderators to baby sit the forums or increase the quality of posting within the Dream forums. The later is what we need here and what the moderators are hoping for.
Edit: And honestly, I think this is the best method. Do we have the potential for losing good information? Yes. This is how you teach the multitudes of Dream posters that there are consequences for being ignorant. Being stupid is not an excuse.
It is pretty annoying how the Dream thread has exploded and that the same questions just keep on cropping up. When I reply I do try to either re-direct them to my signature (which has the basic links to Dude's ROM, SPL, Apps2SD, Radio etc), teach them how to search with the actual result or just point them to the right direction.
However with 500+ pages or whatever, it can become a chore for newbies to read though, even if 70% of the info is in the first page.
I did recommend to the mods that the Dream section needs cleaning up, with a dedicated sub forum purely for the established (or popular) cooked ROMs. So underneath the Dream Dev sub-forum is another just for JF, Dude, Cyanogen, Haykuro etc. That should remove quite a lot of traffic and usual questions then from what is supposed to be a general development thread for other matters.
Then I would suggest a much more organised and up to date FAQ in such a sub-forum which covers all of the same questions that get asked daily. Any such questions that get asked in any of the ROM forums would then be re-directed to the FAQ.
Most of us I'm sure have come from large forums (lik-sang, avsfoums, etc) and know how to search, read etc but many newer members don't, be it due to lack of effort etc. However I'm sure there are many genuine new members who are willing to learn that only need a nudge in the right direction. Simply blocking them off by trashing, linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
I would put myself forward to help moderate the Dream section but I know that zero mod positions are available at the moment, but I do agree with the OP that trashing isn't always the solution.
NeoBlade said:
linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
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The main problem is that for the veterans who have been here since Sept/Oct 2008, everything more or less makes sense because they have seen it evolve to its current state. It's a lot like a guy who lives in a very very messy room who can still find the book buried under a pile of empty ramen cups and dirty laundry. Thus its easy to say "use the search!" in response to any newbie query. That said, from the first-timer newbie perspective, there are a few problems: 1) A lot of information crammed into two poorly organized subforums. 2) A lot of information is outdated and is superseded or contradicts newer information. 3) Some of the sticky threads have very poorly written or maintained first posts.
Sticky threads are not a very good way to store information for general consumption, unless the original poster is a very good communicator and also vigilantly updates the first post with concise information from the entire thread, no matter how long it is. Of the former sticky posts, few actually meet that standard. The ideal format for information conveyance is wiki, but then there is the disconnection between the wiki and active development. In other words, people don't like to move back and forth between the wiki and the forum.
I know what you mean jashu, I love my "organised mess" at home ^_^
It does take effort alright in keeping threads on topic and up to date, I remember when administrating the TokyoToys forum (I since had to close it, joint decision by myself and the owner) and also organising events for fans and people alike to meet up and have fun, took effort and more often enough without any recognition as well which can get discouraging.
Certainly if the OP kept his or her first post updated often enough with information it will keep questions down to a minimum however I still approve of a well made FAQ which is stickied. It then becomes a focal point as any FAQ should. I'm actually in the middle of writing one myself and once its done and the people concerned are happy with it, I would be happy to post it here too.
Ideally a wiki would be best because its user editable however I had a look at the XDA wiki and it does need a bit of TLC.
I will qualify my statement in that I come from the standpoint as an administrator in a prominent Linux forum that gets more posts in an hour in than the Dream forums get in a day. I firmly believe that draconian administration is not the answer and makes the forum far less pleasant to use. I think of administration as keeping things civil and posts in the right forum more than controlling creation of threads. Forcing the organization into a few mammoth threads is not any better than letting users create new threads without rules.
The developers forum is a bit of a mess and completely left to its own it would be worse than it is. The Development forum is not really about development anymore though. It more of a "custom ROM" forum. It is rare that I see an actual post on development on the android platform. Since the primary topic on the forum is custom ROMs the support questions for said ROMs get put in the development forum and generates a mess. Creating a ROM forum would just shift the mess, so I am not sure that would be better.
I think eventually the newbies who are flooding the forum with threads that could be answered by searching will either go away or learn to search. The current choice of administration is not educating the newbies though, it is just forcing them to learn. Regardless of how any of us users feel about the subject though the administrators have made their choice on how to deal with the Dream sub-forums. We are just along for the ride.
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change. Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
JanetPanic said:
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
There's always methods in dealing with issues and I do agree that its more of a ROM section than Development thesedays... Hence in my opinion it would be better off having a ROM section for such people to post on, which will clear up for people actually developling or helping to improve the android platform - Most notibly the Bluetooth OBEX support.
This isn't the fastest forum I've seen or been involved in in terms of volumes of posts, however it is getting to the point where re-structuring and possibly more moderators are needed to help ease the burden. When a large number of people register and start being active, it is often the best time to set an example and indeed set and establish a community where people help people - Be it to simple things as pointing them to the right direction to much more techinical issues.
Without the ethos to help each other, where would open source be?
Granted I know nothing about Linux myself and couldn't code to save my life but I do enjoy the technical discussions that take place. A lot of this is lost with the usual questions that get asked, hence the need for a more up to date FAQ. Tough love is needed but I believe with the right organisation, it shouldn't have to be the only answer.
uberingram said:
This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
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the G1 is the new sidekick. and the sidekick was such a fad and trend for kids to use as a phone. the hip hop and celebrity community did well in terms of marketing the sidekick to the mainstream public as being a "your not cool if you don't have one of these" items. also the emo/scene kids are all about what the "in" things and fads are, so that highly popularized the sidekick as well.
and now since the G1 came out, most of the people that got a sidekick for those particular reasons mentioned above, are now "upgrading" to the next newer cooler big thing.... the G1.
young people love to follow trends, fads, and what's cool at the moment.
right now, the G1 is just that.
it's a double edge for Android and the G1. the popularity is one of the key things needed to make Android and the G1 a success. but with popularity comes a lot riff raff and criticism that is not welcomed so well. but i digress lol
i just hope the sidekick comes out with a touchscreen version or something, so the kids have something new shiny to play with haha
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
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ohhh i have an idea...
like when you sign up you pick the phone and platform you use then instantly redirects the new member to a FAQ or pertinent threads associated to their liking of phone and platform and at the same time directly email them a link to those FAQ and whatnot.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK?.
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Yeah, it's just how mrcrs described it. The Sidekick became quite the fashion accessory model when celebrities started picking them up. They are pictured all over the tabloids and mentioned a lot of times in up-start musician's songs. I doubt very much that it would have panned out this way if T-Mobile released the SideKick 3G before the G1 but then again, T-Mobile needed a victory and a halo phone really fast.
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
NeoBlade said:
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
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whenever i join forums and in my inbox i get a message automatically, which is usually from the forum itself, i usually disregard it because all it is a "welcome to xyz forums... yada yada yada... enjoy your time here"
i usually don't open and read it, delete it then... go wreck havoc on finding out the information i want to know or read about. but that's just me
JanetPanic said:
This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
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IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
jashsu said:
To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
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I have been here since 2005 with the Blue Angel (then the Wizard, Jam, Magician, and the Artemis). Eventually XDA started dedicating a subforum to ROMs with the general development thread up top for WinMo development. The Dream right now just has the one combined forum. Another difference is that the ROM threads in Dream seem to grow faster than I remember on the WinMo threads. I am not sure what the difference is, maybe that usually there are a couple debug threads that die out which in the Dream forum is discouraged. Regardless the rapid posting makes it harder to keep up with more than one ROM.
jashsu said:
IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
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I agree, well put.
jashsu said:
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
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Good point as well.
There definitely needs to be at least a 20 post limit before making a new topic in the dev forum. I have seen many useless threads about issues that dont really exist and questions that should be in the Q&A section by people with 1-3 posts. I doubt anyone below 20 posts is going to contribute anything useful(hell i say 100, but im being nice) to the dev section, and even if they do, who is going to trust flashing something from a new user? Posting in currently open threads should not be limited, just creating new topics. Any opposed?
I think the developer section should be read only unless you're approved.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
Coming from a guy with less than 20 posts I agree. I don't post a lot as you can tell but when I want to look to see if there is anything new out on the development side I get tired of seeing useless post that should be here or in Q&A. I think a post requirement would lower the useless threads
Sent via the Sprint HTC EVO
same here.
deleted because I didn't read the title properly.
I agree
10 char
Just look at how better organized the dev section is for the nexus. Im not saying they shouldnt be able to post at all, just not create new topics.
Nexus dev forum: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=559
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones. I think that topic starters in the development forum should be able to lock out non-developers from commenting if they want also. Its very frustrating to me (not a developer) when I am trying to read a development thread and its full of people making dumb comments or 300 posts thanking the developer while I'm trying to read the thread for something useful.
k2snowboards88 said:
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones.
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Valid point...
Sent via the Sprint HTC EVO
k2snowboards88 said:
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones. I think that topic starters in the development forum should be able to lock out non-developers from commenting if they want also. Its very frustrating to me (not a developer) when I am trying to read a development thread and its full of people making dumb comments or 300 posts thanking the developer while I'm trying to read the thread for something useful.
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Its all about trying to get your post count higher in order to make yourself look good.haha.......
I do agree on some kind of restriction, but how is one supose to get a post count of 20 if you cant post.
lostinroot:) said:
Its all about trying to get your post count higher in order to make yourself look good.haha.......
I do agree on some kind of restriction, but how is one supose to get a post count of 20 if you cant post.
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Thing is, the board is able to do builtin post minimum blocking i believe. It cant do the other fancy application things and what not.
And you can always post everywhere else.
k2snowboards88 said:
If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones.
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I really agree with this. There are plenty of people with good ideas who only bother to register when they have something interesting to share.
It might also be worthwhile to create a few sub-forums under the development forum. For example: one for ROMs, one for known fixes and one for fixes under development.
Richard
Mast3rpyr0 said:
And you can always post everywhere else.
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So are you suggesting that a new member with a worthwhile development idea should post in the General forum?
donatom3 said:
I think the developer section should be read only unless you're approved.
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I agree under one condition... If I'm approved.
I agree.
I would also suggest that there be a panel established for "Jr. Members" to prove themselves worthy of posting in the dev section. That would enable devs new to the forum to have a voice and post worthwhile thoughts. The rest of us can just sit back and read!
ramiss said:
So are you suggesting that a new member with a worthwhile development idea should post in the General forum?
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I mean if you want to flash something made by someone with 2 posts then go head, but i most certainly will not. 20 posts was not hard at all, even without just posting crap. All you gotta do is find a few threads your interested in and post a few things in them and you got em.
k2snowboards88 said:
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones. I think that topic starters in the development forum should be able to lock out non-developers from commenting if they want also. Its very frustrating to me (not a developer) when I am trying to read a development thread and its full of people making dumb comments or 300 posts thanking the developer while I'm trying to read the thread for something useful.
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i agree the op should have mini admin powers to basically lock out people who are offering no help or productivity to the thread. of course it has to be approved by a real admin, you know like if i started a development thread and someone posted something stupid i could flag that user and ask an admin to basically make it so i have to approve their posts...it wouldn't create more work for admins it would make more work for the original poster, BUT if the original poster felt that these people are actually doing a disservice to their thread then i would imagine they would put in the time to edit out the dumb posts.
Mast3rpyr0 said:
I mean if you want to flash something made by someone with 2 posts then go head, but i most certainly will not. 20 posts was not hard at all, even without just posting crap. All you gotta do is find a few threads your interested in and post a few things in them and you got em.
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As you said, 20 posts is not hard to reach... yet that somehow would qualify a poster to then be able to post in the Dev area??? Fuzzy logic there. I don't think post count should matter one way or another, it's just another way to discriminate against people for no reason. What says that the more posts you have, the more important your contributions to the community? Nothing.
I do agree that I most likely would not flash a rom that was posted up by a new member, unless I really just wanted to test and had nothing to lose. Many people here have more than one device and can flash without worrying about interrupting their phone service.
Bottom line, someone could have 500 posts, with nothing real to contribue inside of those posts, and later, post a lame rom that isn't worth the time it takes to flash it. Whereas, another user could only have 1 post to say hello, and be very savvy in the dev arena, who happens to post up a kickass rom that everyone wants. Post count shouldn't be a determining factor.
Jye75 said:
As you said, 20 posts is not hard to reach... yet that somehow would qualify a poster to then be able to post in the Dev area??? Fuzzy logic there. I don't think post count should matter one way or another, it's just another way to discriminate against people for no reason. What says that the more posts you have, the more important your contributions to the community? Nothing.
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Not true.
The implication is that since you have more posts, (200 +, IMO), one should be familiar with what questions to ask, the manner in which to ask them, and be able to understand the answer given. That said; I know there *some* people with high post counts that may not be as "technical" or knowledgeable, though there input is just as valid as anyone else's (if you really don't want to discriminate). Conversely, I've seen people with 20 posts who have made great contributions as well, technical or not.
In regards to this thread, I think the way XDA does its moderation is fine. Though it would be nice to have have restrictions on new users, one of the major reasons why we shouldn't is because, you can't gauge a new user's level of skill/knowledge via there post count, but rather what they contribute.
Sure the majority of new users may not know anything about Android or be technical, but often, when a new phone comes out (like the EVO) there have been "new users" who come from other Android forums (SDX, AC, PPG, etc) and contribute right off the bat (first post even -- e.g. Calkulin, Joeykrim, etc) because they were top developers in there respective previous forums; however not many people would know that and right away asssume that there initial posts may not be as credible as someone with 200+ posts. My point is gauging the level of "knowledge, technical skill, etc" based on ones post count isn't really reliable, rather people should focus there attention on what the OP's has to say about the topic at hand and his/her contributions overall.
I see no reason to limit new users, especially with a forum such as this one, where a new users curiosity is thriving to get answers and ask questions because they want to see what his/her new Android phone is capable of. We were all in the same boat at one point, we probably Googled "How to root the "X" and XDA was the first on the list, thus the reason for us being here now.
Open Source means contribution by whomever (technical user or non-technical user) it shouldn't matter. Whatever can better this community to allow each individual to get the best experience out of his/her device, is what the aim should be. Ultimately however, it would be nice if the person who has received something also contribute back to the community in some way or another, creating an endless cycle of new and ever changing questions, answers, ideas, and contributions for us all.
pseudoremora said:
Not true.
Really? Your post contradicts you.
The implication is that since you have more posts, (200 +, IMO), one should be familiar with what questions to ask, the manner in which to ask them, and be able to understand the answer given. That said; I know there *some* people with high post counts that may not be as "technical" or knowledgeable, though there input is just as valid as anyone else's (if you really don't want to discriminate). Conversely, I've seen people with 20 posts who have made great contributions as well, technical or not.
In regards to this thread, I think the way XDA does its moderation is fine. Though it would be nice to have have restrictions on new users, one of the major reasons why we shouldn't is because, you can't gauge a new user's level of skill/knowledge via there post count, but rather what they contribute.
Sure the majority of new users may not know anything about Android or be technical, but often, when a new phone comes out (like the EVO) there have been "new users" who come from other Android forums (SDX, AC, PPG, etc) and contribute right off the bat (first post even -- e.g. Calkulin, Joeykrim, etc) because they were top developers in there respective previous forums; however not many people would know that and right away asssume that there initial posts may not be as credible as someone with 200+ posts. My point is gauging the level of "knowledge, technical skill, etc" based on ones post count isn't really reliable, rather people should focus there attention on what the OP's has to say about the topic at hand and his/her contributions overall.
I see no reason to limit new users, especially with a forum such as this one, where a new users curiosity is thriving to get answers and ask questions because they want to see what his/her new Android phone is capable of. We were all in the same boat at one point, we probably Googled "How to root the "X" and XDA was the first on the list, thus the reason for us being here now.
Open Source means contribution by whomever (technical user or non-technical user) it shouldn't matter. Whatever can better this community to allow each individual to get the best experience out of his/her device, is what the aim should be. Ultimately however, it would be nice if the person who has received something also contribute back to the community in some way or another, creating an endless cycle of new and ever changing questions, answers, ideas, and contributions for us all.
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Yes, one would HOPE that this implication holds true, however, since it's not a guaranteed truth, it doesn't stand to reason that post count should be the qualifying factor in deciding if one could post or not. As far as the rest of your post goes, you and I are on the same page.
Hello guys,
I know this thread is not directly about a ROM, but this is where this thread belongs because it directly involves the OPs of all these threads... so please read my suggestion.
There is an ever increasing amount of flaming going on here, mostly shooting down newbies for asking the same questions over and over again. I have a suggestion which would be very useful for avoiding the repetitive questions as well as the bad vibes and time wasted generated by so much flaming.
My suggestion is to have all OPs of a thread, make post #2 or post #3 available SPECIFICALLY as an up-to-date info aggregating post... so:
1/ in the FIRST post of the thread, mention is made and a link given to a post (perhaps post #2 or 3) which is dedicated to NEW FINDINGS and WORK AROUNDS.
2/ Someone volunteers to update this post, a beta tester or friend of the OP's or a fan of that specific ROM. the would start and edit/maintain this post #2 or #3 each time a new finding is made (delete helvetica on Darky 7.5, for example)
3/ instead of reading dozens of posts of wasted energy flaming people (it makes ZERO difference and ONLY serves to make the flamer look arrogant and unfriendly) we could all politely point newbies and confused old farters like myself to the first post and post #2 or #3 where they can get useful information without being expected to waste hours reading hundreds of useless comments or failing to find what you want by searching.
4/ Searching only happens when you ALREADY have a problem you need to solve. This idea of post #2 or #3 being used for important new info would tell people ALL they need to know, so if they read that, they would not need to search! IMO searching can take a long time, and XDA limits you to one search per 30 seconds, which DISCOURAGES searching!?
IMO it is not THAT much effort for one person to take on this job per thread...
What do you think?
tx
Mark.
I totally agree with you but you probably know that keeping a post up to date is hard as you can't constantly be on xda.
A solution could be allowing multiple users modifying one same post so updating won't rely on one person.
But I don't know if this is currently feasible.
If you check out Doc's thread, this is basically what he does already. Several posts chock full of information with the most revelant addons, fixes, changelogs, etc.
chambo622 said:
If you check out Doc's thread, this is basically what he does already. Several posts chock full of information with the most revelant addons, fixes, changelogs, etc.
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Hi
Yes, to some extent this is done on Doc's thread, though it contains (or has in the past when I was using doc's roms and reading those tips) some stuff which is outdated/irrelevant/incorrect an it is a bit disorganised.
I would love to see some kind of standardisation, so anyone trying out a new rom can read about the rom in the first post, and read the second post to see what the latest findings/fixes/issues are.
For sure, Doc's is a lot more informative than most...
Tx
Mark
Any specific information you'd like to see? If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them best I can.
I (at least try to) keep a detailed, up-to-date FAQ on my ROM's page. The problem is, not many people are asking questions.
I'm guilty of chastising folks sometimes too, especially the ones that come on here complaining that their phone is dead and how Samsung sucks because THEY didn't bother reading threads on how to properly flash, or not paying attention and flashing a captivate rom on a vibrant or a i9000m, whatever.
When I have a problem and need to ask a question, I've already spent time searching the net, searching xda, and reading related threads. I guess it is much easier just to hit "new post". How about a forum rule where it is mandatory to actually search, read the stickies, and the first few pages of a rom thread before posting? Or maybe a new thread should be created for every new ROM revision, with the thread title for older versions changed to include "OBSOLETE"?
Also, finding specific information in this forum is quite difficult sometimes because it is spread across hundreds of threads, sometimes buried a few hundred pages in. Another problem is that the i9000 is grouped in with the i9000m, and honestly, there should be a subforum specifically for the i9000m, where we can store all the QQ posts about SD failures and the like. Save the main forums for information we can actually use.
Just my 2 pesos... for what its worth.
This suggestion only covers part of the problem, the other problem is aspiring rom chefs was also shot down by fanboys of more established rom chefs. And as a result, not many would venture into rom cooking anymore.
While I have utmost respect for the chefs, what irks me most is fanboys calling others as thieves... Pathetic....
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
g00ndu said:
While I have utmost respect for the chefs, what irks me most is fanboys calling others as thieves... Pathetic....
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Hi there,
I agree its definitely not constructive, people taking out their anger on others is uncool regardless of who-how-why.
shadoslayer said:
How about a forum rule where it is mandatory to actually search, read the stickies, and the first few pages of a rom thread before posting?
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most of this is already a requirement/request when you join the forum, but flamers get all self righteous and hammer anyone they deem has not done their homework.
searches are very fallible. if you search for a generally used word you come up with way too much, and search too narrow and you are likely to miss something. I was looking for "battery fix" because that is what the thread title mentioned, but in the actual thread it was called "battery drain" or something, so I did not find the "battery fix" and had to ask.
all these little important things that sit somewhere in a 1000 page thread need to be collected and put somewhere immediately after the first post...
IMO that would make the XDA experience more pleasant for more people!
Mark.
I agree its desperately needed .
Whats happening is that other forums mention the various roms .
Owners then download the rom without even the most basic knowledge of roms Odin flashing etc expect them to be just like factory roms . Get into trouble refuse to read page 1 ask for help often on subjects beyond their very limited knowledge .
jje
fredphoesh said:
Hi there,
I agree its definitely not constructive, people taking out their anger on others is uncool regardless of who-how-why.
most of this is already a requirement/request when you join the forum, but flamers get all self righteous and hammer anyone they deem has not done their homework.
searches are very fallible. if you search for a generally used word you come up with way too much, and search too narrow and you are likely to miss something. I was looking for "battery fix" because that is what the thread title mentioned, but in the actual thread it was called "battery drain" or something, so I did not find the "battery fix" and had to ask.
all these little important things that sit somewhere in a 1000 page thread need to be collected and put somewhere immediately after the first post...
IMO that would make the XDA experience more pleasant for more people!
Mark.
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I agree for an extent. There are a few exceptions however:
1) There have been some cases where people have knowingly presented assumptions as fact... REPEATEDLY! Even after it is questioned. So flaming in that case might not be nice, but flaming is the only way to get them to go away. One such example was when someone was telling everyone "Google Mytrack is buggy, not the GPS". He refused to provide adequate evidence. RAM's another area where everyone is a professional, but none of the professionals have proof..
2) There are also a growing number of users who are blatantly IGNORING strong warnings about some ROM's.... And many of these are users with no development skills, or who haven't even tested official roms first. Then when something goes wrong, they demand help from the community, and later they bug the poor developers, who already knew there were serious bugs.
3) And then, there are the people who don't try to solve their own problem first. Granted, some searches CAN be missed. However, we are often seeing questions which often obviously can't be answered by the community (such as "when will Samsung release Gingerbread for SGS"). Well, clearly in that case, it would be best to speak to Samsung (duh). Or "my sd card is dead, will AT&T replace it". Clearly they should speak to AT&T
4) Then there are the guys too lazy to bother with basic fault fixing skills "my phone jammed up.. What do i do?"
I do agree in general it would be nice if things were friendlier. However, in some cases, I'm not sure if we should embrace people who were mentioned above....
What we really need is a thread designed as a faq consolidating answers
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
2. More Mods! I think just one or two more mods can help the forums a lot and clean things up.
3. Warnings for people who post questions that have already been answered on the front page of a thread or faq followed by a temp ban if they continue.
I'm really tired of the cycle of
- Dumb question posted
- Followed by "read the damn thread or use the damn search button"
- Followed by "Hey you were a noob once and theres no harm in answering the question you ass along with lengthy answer on the question that will inevitable be asked 10 more times in the near future"
- Continue flame war that now has nothing to do with the thread anymore
You enable people by holding their hands. Don't be an enabler. If you managed to find out how to do all this crap on your own, they can too. At most you should point them to the right thread and let them read up on it on their own so they can further their own education.
4. Don't PM the Devs for requests. They have enough work on their hands and don't need to be flooded. Remember the rule of think before you speak? Try thinking before you PM.
Anyhoo, there was a bunch more, but I'm sure you guys/gals have other ideas.
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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I don't understand why the "[How To] Return to Stock / Fix Bricked Epic" thread is not sticked.
If someone posts they bricked their phone and needs help you post the link to that thread and lock it.
I like the sentiment of this thread but fear it might be taken the wrong way. Whosdaman is really a wonderful guy and has been very helpful to me but it seems like he is very busy (and who can blame him for dealing with things outside of the interwebs?) so I support this I would also like to issue a blanket "Thank you for your hard work" to Whosdaman.
Seeing as this is a collection of developers I don't see why we don't customize the forum itself.
I don't see any reason we can't flag the development and Q/A threads for every phone. Then, if "is this a question" is set to yes, automatically put it in that phone's Q/A forum. On top of which we could add a "You are posting in the development forum, this is reserved for people developing for [insert phone]. Please check the box below to confirm that you are developing something you wish to share." anytime people posted in the development forum.
Obviously people can still screw it up, if nothing else on purpose, but we can expect people who have never been on the forums to know how the forums are laid out, usually by reading the rules, which never happens, to sort their own, or we can make it as self sorting as possible.
Sounds like whosedaman just needs some support. Perhaps another mod added to help out. We all have to keep in mind that these guys don't get paid for this and real life always trumps forums life. Just my thought on this.
Sent from my Epic while i should be working
I was wondering why there was so much confusion in this forum, as I really liked the forums I used for the month I had a Moment before the Epic dropped. Was there ever a forum on here for the moment??? I couldnt find one, so I checked sdx, which I remember lurking back then and found my answer. Why can't Xda have 'child forums', with descriptions of where and why to post things?? They have a 'market' forum section for ROMs, etc, which we here are using development exclusively. I understand why, but it seems its this way here because of limited tools for organizing, can this sites software not do that? It is completely logical and intuitive to post questions directly regarding development or roms in the development section if you are new... I would have expected a sub-forum for roms only, or at least some direction other than after the fact... usually unless its horribly out of order, whosdaman is pretty polite about it, and given the feelings regarding this device, things get silly in here. Anyways, yes, at least sticky all roms and things 'coolguy' or whatever dont warrant flaming, and then politely notify the new people that questions regarding development actually get booted over to general, where intuitively people would assume GENERAL questions like 'do you like gmail or the stock app better?'.
More mods? Better structure? Who has control over this? Are there any experienced volunteers that can help whosdaman out with his daunting task?
We need to expect more 'joined in Dec 2010' and later members as every idiot with a blog and engadget included seem to think this site and forum are the authority, even over Sprint and Samsung (if XDA says 2.2 is dropping, it must be true, head over there and complain about it). NOTHING against new members, just that there is little direction other than the 'rules' that most people think are just 'dont flame, no kiddie porn... etc...' Dont get all elitist because people couldnt figure out your simple, non-intuitive structure because its their first 5 mins here.
Love this forum, but its like people are baited into getting flamed by assuming this forum runs like most any other... I thought I saw the end of this when I refused to go to another BBC chat... guess not.
If you feel that you must deputize yourself, please, copy the link to the wiki, rules, etc and paste them in misplaced, repeat threads and leave it at that.
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
I'm willing to be a mod here I have experience and would know and how to handle things here...
Admins or mods pm me
sent from my Epic 4G
riceknight said:
1. A FAQ listed on each section. I know we have Wiki, but its usually outdated and hard to navigate. There really is no need for gigantic lists, but simple things like how to root, use odin, use clockwork, install roms/themes, etc... can be put there along with a warning on asking questions which have already been posted on the FAQ.
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Did you do a search before posting this? There's already a thread on it, learn how to use the search.
Ok, that was my attempt at humor
ungovernable1977 said:
since this is a fluff post, BigJim, whats the 1488 stand for??? Just curious...
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I don't think this is fluff at all and whosdaman does deserve to be thanked for his, well, thankless work.
1488 is a race thing. They usually won't tell you what the ideology of it is in public. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
Although I don't agree with the sentiment of the belief structure, I support their right to peacefully observe their beliefs.
Yeah I know that meaning its generally a tattooed target, was just hoping it was just some retarded interweb speak. Sorry to hear. Almost forgot what it was though... not many Boneheads around here, not anymore.
BTW, I respect Lady Gaga's work, although I dont like it, therefore I see no reason to put it in my username.... its ok, you have a right to be a Nazi in this country...
Regrettably, I do read almost every thread in this forum, and forums I maintain...
<--------- Look here, I have 8 forums to maintain full time, but 6 are dead lol
Yeah I do have a life outside this for sure. Not only am I a senior in High School, I am on the Mock Trial team, the Robotics Team, a Sales Representative for Sprint, and a Writer for BriefMobile.com
So yeah I would say I'm busy, but I look over the entire forum as much as I can. Shep211 has been extremely busy in his personal life, that's why I started helping.
It is a thankless job, it's a volunteer job. All free, I don't get paid. The only thanks comes from the owner of the site when I say "if you fix this the site will be better."
Besides all that I can single handedly control this entire forum. I know it sometimes looks cluttered and in a mess, but then again...the Development section is spotless, which is truely the only thing that matters. The General section is meant to be a mess because it's where everyone posts their questions and complaints.
There are applications to become a moderator here on XDA, you have to meet certain requirements to be considered and then be approved. No one of this forum knows my experience as a moderator unless you used GameBattles.com for PS3.
If you want to help me out the most, please please please, use the "Report Post" feature. Every reported post goes straight to my inbox, and I see every single one. Normally RP's get extra attention as they obviously have bothered someone enough to have it reported. 90% of the RP's are either Ghost or Kenvan.
The search feature would do alot of people good, it's nice to tell people to do something, but Report the post/thread and I'll take care of it. You clutter up the forum and threads by posting in threads saying to post in General, just report it. That's all.
Sure, I wish everyone searched because there are at least 5 can't root threads. I would rather merge them all but it too much work to find them. Like I said, let the noobs make their mistake. The members report the post, don't tell them they were wrong. I'll move it, shoot them a PM, and then post in their thread telling them where they should have posted. Then hopefully they will learn.
Thanks again,
WDM
kenvan19 said:
Pardon? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'a fluff post'. I sincerely hope Whosdaman reads this thread and takes into account that there are some of us who would genuinely like to help him make our forums a more manageable place to browse and share ideas/roms/themes/etc. I am in no way asking for myself to be made a mod but rather I believe there are people here who would make good mods and I hope that WDM sees that we support him and want to help him make our community more accessible!
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Sorry, fluff may have been a wrong choice of words, I was implying that as this has been talked about before, and ignored by the powers that be, I saw it was going to end up an off topic post eventually, or at least until the elitist post Nazis (no offense bigjim) came in and said how we are cluttering their precious first page of posts, because as most have trouble with the AMAZING search function, a lot here have a lot of trouble with 'next page', you dont even have to pick which page, it takes you right to the next one!
Sorry, this is just getting really retarded around here, oh and BigJim,apologies, last comment on your beliefs, if off topic, but being an anarcho-punk, its hard not to at least ask if that is REALLY what you are talking about.
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
I certainly appreciate all the hard work Whosdaman has been doing with these forums, but unless he enjoys handling all this, wouldn't an extra mod or two be helpful?
My biggest thing is the FAQ post. Someone asks questions, you can point and say you should have read that first. Like I said before, the Wiki is great, but its a little cluttered and outdated as well as being hard to edit. Having one person willing to just moderate that one thread would be so helpful.
It bugs me when the whole community seems to be represented by the lazy people who just spam post. There are plenty of helpful, polite and very well informed that get lost among the clutter. In fact, they probably outnumber the newbies but don't feel the need to post nonsense. For every idiot that asks a dumb question, there are probably 10 that actually do research and figure it out for themselves.
kenvan19 said:
hehe *blush* I've tried to resort to reporting posts lately as opposed to trying to deal with problems on my own. Hope its not too much of a burden.
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Nope, I love you and ghost for reporting post. I always look forward to waking up and seeing 10 new PMs lol
ungovernable1977 said:
THANK YOU whosdaman! that is a very simple way to deal with the clutter issue... didnt even realise what the report button was till i looked around for it. I agree that not replying, positive or negative is good, if its easier for you to redirect them (you could probably easily make a form letter, just sub in 'froyo', 'GPS', or 'search' and the rest is pretty much the same!)
So what of the ability to make sub forums??? to be able to have a section under Dev that is for general DEV RELATED questions would be cool... most people assume that General is for stock, non rooted phone discussion, and Development is for anything to do with development. I think I remember one called 'all things root'?? Idunno, but you get the idea. So what is the plausability of this?? not possible with site software? Too much work??? Just curious, I have asked in similar threads and I think you were too busy with other stuff... I tend to avoid PM especially if it is something someone else may be able to answer, as we all know, mods are busy, especially in this forum. Thanks for all your hard work!
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I have no control over sub-forums. And right now it is only me working on the entire Epic forum. Like I said shep211 is gone atm.
svetius is in charge of the entire site, and I've talked to him about improvements that can be made. I wouldn't bother him too much or he'll just ignore ya. Most of the time the only things he is interested is fixing errors with the site itself. Right now I don't think we are in the area of reorganizing the entire site.
ok, so adding a subforum is not possible? Or is it a decision to make the structure uniform across the whole site? Just thinking, because this forum is like maximum security, different from the rest... or so it would seem...
I'm not so sure making more areas, and thus more chances to be wrong, is a good way to combat posting in the wrong area.
If you have a rom question, ask it in the rom thread. All that would happen if there were subforums for things in development, and discussion of things in development is we'd have 37 threads about how "I just discovered ___ doesn't work in [rom]" instead of 50 posts about it in the rom thread.
(Not to mention you'd then be blurring the line of when it is or isn't ok to post in the DEV forum, where as now, if the person bothers to read, there's a pretty clear cut "If you aren't about to post about the thing you just developed, GTFO" rule.)
i have been off from xda lately due to my admission process.logged in some time ago and saw that tytung has stopped support on xda and all his threads closed.why did this happen.can someone shed a light on this.
I am not offending anybody's decision. Just curious
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda premium
Whats happened to tytung
Ah that's a real shame. He put out some great ROMs but that's what happens when you don't obey the rules I guess. It's also nice to see that the mods are completely unbiased and won't give members preferential treatment due to their titles.
Oddly, tytung's threads were all closed apparently because he stated that he would not support them (although he did update). That is the reason given in @kinfauns closing post(s). This is the first time that I am aware of, of threads being closed due to lack of support by the dev. And I can see no rule which states that a dev MUST provide support.
In fact (some) support for these threads was being provided by members, and that is the case for many threads in which the developer/OP is no longer contributing to xda for whatever reason.
People using tytung's roms and needing support on xda, have no choice now but to seek support from "another place". Is it the intention of xda to force people to use a rival site? Or is it to stop people from promoting a rival site and therefore breaking xda rules?
I am just a bit confused as to why these threads were closed, any clarification would be appreciated.
I agree with Robbie p that the threads should be kept open for the users to help each other. Still if the mods are against it we can have a support thread in the general section.
Feels to lose a great dev
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda premium
It more looks like few moderators are simply emotionally hurt(you know what I mean) because Tytung's left.
No seriously, this is dumb. I can't post and provide ANY support for Tytungs ROM's(as many other people who got knowledge) because someone closed threads.
Even if there's no Tytung's, WE can provide basic support, for older iterations of ROM. There's much magic still to be done with HD2 android.
This is abusive. Mod responsible for this kind of damage should be punished.
Robbie P said:
Oddly, tytung's threads were all closed apparently because he stated that he would not support them (although he did update). That is the reason given in @kinfauns closing post(s). This is the first time that I am aware of, of threads being closed due to lack of support by the dev. And I can see no rule which states that a dev MUST provide support.
In fact (some) support for these threads was being provided by members, and that is the case for many threads in which the developer/OP is no longer contributing to xda for whatever reason.
People using tytung's roms and needing support on xda, have no choice now but to seek support from "another place". Is it the intention of xda to force people to use a rival site? Or is it to stop people from promoting a rival site and therefore breaking xda rules?
I am just a bit confused as to why these threads were closed, any clarification would be appreciated.
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disclaimer ....the following reply is only my opinions
i agree with you ..there are many threads in the hd2 android dev section that should also be closed for no dev support ..in fact 98 percent of them shold be closed for lack of dev support
but what i think was the underlying problem was his links for roms went to links that generated money for him..
and i know if i was a dev that had 3 or 4 different rom threads i wouldnt wanna have to monitor 3 or 4 different q/a&t threads for those roms either that would make 6 or 8 threads a dev would have to monitor ,most dont have the time for that
hell you can see the activity in both sections has almost ground to a crawl ..its as if xda is slowly trying to fade out the hd2 android section
dont be surprised if you see some of the few remaining devs stop making roms and move on to something else
and those posts about about this being a dev thread please post in the q&a section blah blah blah are not helpfull to anyone and just clutter up the dev threads even more then offtopic posts do ..xda is trying to do much to late .ive been on xda since 2010 and there was never a problem with how the threads were maintained and handled ..
hell if the wanna do something good for the forum ..then they should change the signup rules and stop all the lazy people from just coming in new and immediatly posting about something that they couldve searched and read about but are to lazy to and want it all handed to them on a silver plate .....also they could remove people like abumaha who has never posted a single post about how good a rom is ..but always post how do i do this and why doesnt this rom work
ok im off my soapbox now
^ Still don't believe that abumaha is somehow still here :') But yeah I agree with Kam, things haven't been done completely correctly IMO.
Sent from my Nexus 4
+1 to kameirus i agree 143%
and abuhama.. just lol
on off topic on topic, if you want to find tytung , just google "forum tytung android" and you should find his forums
Everyone knows the mod's in question were just looking for an excuse they could give. He had dropped a new hd2 rom about 2 or 3 weeks prior. He had instructions on how to install it in post 1. Exactly how much "support" does a dev have to provide the users anyway? It was bs plain and simple....oh and if you looked at his status later they knocked him down to a "Senior Member"......I haven't seen any of the OTHER idle dev's getting their status pulled for being "idle".
As mentioned..they've done an excellent job of killing off the hd2 forum....there is almost no active development going on and the closest rom to tytungs still has a long list of things marked "not working". Tytung was also the only one producing recent jelly bean kernels with hd2 specific fixes so everything worked.
famewolf said:
1. Exactly how much "support" does a dev have to provide the users anyway? It was bs plain and simple....oh and if you looked at his status later they knocked him down to a "Senior Member"......I haven't seen any of the OTHER idle dev's getting their status pulled for being "idle".
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now that was very low from them
famewolf said:
As mentioned..they've done an excellent job of killing off the hd2 forum....there is almost no active development going on and the closest rom to tytungs still has a long list of things marked "not working". Tytung was also the only one producing recent jelly bean kernels with hd2 specific fixes so everything worked.
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That's right. all they're doing is killing the HD2 forums ...
i had reported all the "thread closed" posts by that mod, and i got:
tytung was not being picked on. This action was not taken lightly, or by kinfauns alone. tytung left us no choices.
Thank you,
mikef
XDA Senior Moderator
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but in addition to close his threads, they also lowered him to senior member???
sorry if this is rude, but kinda reminds me of when a kid has his candy bar stoled, and he does everything to take revenge and take it back. enough for me
I do not know who made the decision re Tytung, but it was not made by a matured intellect. I have run systems since 1979 (with over 35 years as a senior networks systems/operations engineer) and have dealt with many experienced administrators, moderators and sysops, and the way this was handled shows nothing but ego-driven/threatened immaturity.
Shame on XDA.
MarkAtHome said:
I do not know who made the decision re Tytung, but it was not made by a matured intellect. I have run systems since 1979 (with over 35 years as a senior networks systems/operations engineer) and have dealt with many experienced administrators, moderators and sysops, and the way this was handled shows nothing but ego-driven/threatened immaturity.
Shame on XDA.
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It does feel like some immature revenge.
It's not like only Tytung's got punished, but XDA users who were using his ROM's
I got unnerving thought, that this whole action is to bury HD2 development and make it Low legacy. While it's still in it's strenght despite old age
Shame on you XDA
MarkAtHome said:
I do not know who made the decision re Tytung, but it was not made by a matured intellect. I have run systems since 1979 (with over 35 years as a senior networks systems/operations engineer) and have dealt with many experienced administrators, moderators and sysops, and the way this was handled shows nothing but ego-driven/threatened immaturity.
Shame on XDA.
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yeah! i just bet anyone who made this decision to port android and then build it from source and support a device that was never intended to run android in the first place!
Some of you may remember me from back in the "glory days" of Android on the HD2 when Cotulla and Darkstone were making the very first ROMs. I was here daily loading new builds, even when you could not turn the screen off one time or you'd get the SOD. That was when you could only do it through haret.
Fast forward a bit and we had magldr and cLK and where we really had a million options. Personally after a while I would pretty much stick with ACA on SD dual booted with WP7, but there were some really cool things out there to do. I spent many hours trying to troubleshoot people to flash hspl 2.08 or the right radio or to NOT flash certain radios etc. to get things going right.
Tytung was one of the greats as far as ROM and kernel development, and I am not prevaricating when I tell you that there is no XDA Staff on this site who does not respect what Tytung brought to the table. To put it in very simple yet eloquent terms: Dude had skill...
But our standing policy at XDA has always been that we do not keep open development threads with no support. Due to the fact that we just don't talk about individual dealings in public at XDA for privacy concerns we cannot get into specifics. But I can tell you that XDA has zero to gain from a developer such as that no longer supporting development threads here.
When something like this happens, there is no "victory" and no winner. sometimes things just don't work out for various reasons, and then sometimes things work out just fine in the end.
I can respect the disappointment and ambivalence on this matter, and believe me when I say that the HD2 is still a mighty device worthy of respect. I still own an HD2 along with all of the other devices I use, and it can still do some cool stuff. I wouldn't consider it a Legacy Device just yet!
orangekid said:
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We understand all of this, but why close the threads? If you check the second or third page of the development forum and further, you can see many, and I mean MANY threads of ROMs which are either discontinued or whose developers moved onto other things, other devices. Yet, they are still open, and from time to time you see people bringing them back to surface and getting help. Just because the developer ceased support, it doesn't mean the threads should be closed. Delete his links, remove his other websites, just keep the threads open for members' discussion.
If the developer haven't requested a closure, I don't see a reason why they should be closed.
Marvlesz said:
We understand all of this, but why close the threads? If you check the second or third page of the development forum and further, you can see many, and I mean MANY threads of ROMs which are either discontinued or whose developers moved onto other things, other devices. Yet, they are still open, and from time to time you see people bringing them back to surface and getting help. Just because the developer ceased support, it doesn't mean the threads should be closed. Delete his links, remove his other websites, just keep the threads open for members' discussion.
If the developer haven't requested a closure, I don't see a reason why they should be closed.
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When a developer publicly announces he will no longer follow the rules, no longer support his work posted here, and is actively trying to recruit members away from XDA to his new site, what do you really expect us to do? Cooperate with this effort? Seriously? Sure there are lots of other threads that have been effectively abandoned by their dev/OP when they moved on to a new device, but we simply do not have the luxury of time to go sift through thousands of threads to find them. When they are reported, we evaluate the situation and then act on it according to our guidelines.
Decisions like this are never made quickly, lightly, or on the fly by a single mod here. Now, I am closing this thread and I would appreciate it if no further threads were opened on this topic as it won't help to resolve the situation but will only make it worse.
You all do not know all of the facts in this situation, nor will you as we must respect tytung's privacy in his communications with us so we will not divulge them publicly. tytung is not banned or blacklisted, and is welcome to return here should he change his mind about following the rules. If he does not want to do that, it is entirely up to him.
Thank you,
mikef
XDA Senior Moderator