Database Users

GPL Compliance

Thread below is merged from off-topic in another thread, and the contents of this thread previously. Posts may appear out of order.

wow - after the way lox treated feeyo @ cronos forum today I won't be touching this rom. very disappointing from someone I thought was above this.
c'est la vie. as someone said - progress. at least finally cm7 dev is sharing the work he's been raving about - I was beginning to wonder if this was real since until now he didn't update the public repository or builds since christmas 2010.
hopefully there are at least one or two things in the code that are worth using in the cgb rom.
certainly will be interesting to hear about performance - what do people think compared to cronos? most important are graphics performance and system lags since there are known workarounds for most of those in cronos that most of us are happy with, but it's still not as fast as something like elelinux 6.2 which is super speedy.
I'm surprised that screen off animations don't work since this is supposedly a gsm version of the same rom cdma guys are using (cm7)?
also disappointed that there are issues with usb connectivity since there aren't issues with cgb 009.
amusing too about the elelinux items such as the graphics library which came from experiments by the cronos gingerbread community while ele was sharing nicely with it's development. I should know - I was one of the first people on gsm hero to actually push those graphics libs and get measurable success from them.
anyway - so how's the performance in a/b comparisons with cronos and with froyo roms? and don't forget to write the cpu settings you test with please.

I can understand the feelings towards Lox re his treatment towards Feeyo, but when Feeyo has continued to mis-understand the licensing requirements of Android and not do anything about it, it will cause those who honour it's spirit to be a little pissed off.
It's not exactly a difficult thing for Feeyo to fix (make his sources compliant, which obviously it still is not).

swatsbiz said:
I can understand the feelings towards Lox re his treatment towards Feeyo, but when Feeyo has continued to mis-understand the licensing requirements of Android and not do anything about it, it will cause those who honour it's spirit to be a little pissed off.
It's not exactly a difficult thing for Feeyo to fix (make his sources compliant, which obviously it still is not).
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On topic, I agree with dkelleys assessment of what to set your clockspeeds to

Wow, I wasn't expecting that!
Oh, the drama....

Well I just saw this and had an Email from the Cronos site in my inbox.
What I find so stupid is that it takes them so darn long to actually request Feeyo to bring down Cronos. For me that is just silly, because you saw something that is out of the ordinary, I think it could have been solved like normal people, and not like this, to talk past each other and then do it like this.
Well for me I am a flash Junkie but I am not going to give this one a try, for the simple fact of the way business went down today.
Ow well I actually it is something you wanted to have, but didnt get in that PM on the Cronos site. And went beserk or something. I don't know.....

It's a shame such a talented dev has to be forced into obeying the community spirit.
Come on Feeyo ... we'll forgive you, your work is too good!

swatsbiz said:
I can understand the feelings towards Lox re his treatment towards Feeyo, but when Feeyo has continued to mis-understand the licensing requirements of Android and not do anything about it, it will cause those who honour it's spirit to be a little pissed off.
It's not exactly a difficult thing for Feeyo to fix (make his sources compliant, which obviously it still is not).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lox didn't even ask him for the kernel sources and when Feeyo delivered exactly what Lox had asked for Lox started accusing Feeyo for breaking GPL, then he reported him. That is bs.

People please. To talk about Feeyo and GPL make other theard in off-topic..

A thread to talk about GPL compliance and ROMs.

in their own private cm forum a user says it has ugly graphics and that it's using much of the hardware fixes that elelinux and feeyo put into cronos gingerbread and that is is laggy.
So the results are in.
however on a positive note - it sounds like gingerbread "themes" might be working in this rom, as they are in cm7 for cdma hero afaik, so this is an interesting development. I wonder if those themes are also pixelated or if they've been improved for mdpi? probalby improved by the cdma hero users already which will mean that lox can just use those modded themes to improve his rom's appearance.

krygo said:
People please. To talk about Feeyo and GPL make other theard in off-topic..
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Agreed.
I look forward to trying it out. The extra animations don't bother me too much as long as it performs well.

krygo said:
People please. To talk about Feeyo and GPL make other theard in off-topic..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, but you cant suspect this to fly over, tbh, I think this needs to be brought out, Feeyo's been banned from this site because of this bull****, and now his own site needs to be offline.
Like I said, well now to put it better. Lox didnt get his lollypop and got mad and yelled at the bigger person who has the power to do something against it.
Somehow Lox acted in the way he thought was right, To me that is not right. But it happend to bad..

Should Feeyo be made to bring his ROM into compliance with GPL?

swatsbiz said:
Should Feeyo be made to bring his ROM into compliance with GPL?
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Click to collapse
Yes. Everyone else does, so why does he not have to?

Thread created:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=929739

He has to. Everyone has to if they are using anything under the GPL.

krygo said:
People please. To talk about Feeyo and GPL make other theard in off-topic..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, it's entirely on topic in this case. it was blatant and pure sabotage by lox of feeyo.
and FYI feeyo honestly believes that his very detailed research into the GPL and the way he's working with it is acceptible - and honestly who gives a crap about the GPL in this case?
He's been working hard, been very fair, shared everything but a couple of long standing controversial bits of code that shouldn't matter at all to anyone else, and is one of the major reasons why we have gingerbread on the hero.
His rom was ahead of the cdma hero community originally and has been ahead of the CM hero community all the way along.
It certainly looks as though Lox felt threatened by falling behind feeyo, elelinux and the rest of the cgb contributors. I don't know why - it's not a competition. But it certainly looks this way. It's VERY clear that lox and his CM friends intentionally went out to sabotage Feeyo and the cronos forum.
I'm a long time member here and well respected guy I think overall - I don't like controversy and I don't like people getting together in groups to attack someone. However in this case I recommended some self defence against Lox specifically by boycotting this rom since today he went far out of his way to personally be both judge and jury in executing Feeyo at his own home, cronos forum. Everyone says GPL, cut and dried, no if ands or buts, either share or you're going to be prosecuted. What they really mean is, share or you'll be persecuted. Share or we'll execute you even though we actually may not know all of the details of how the GPL works in every case and even though what you're doing might actually be legally acceptable.
There was absolutely nothing to be gained by loxes behavior today - he doesn't need and doesn't care about feeyo's kernel sources at all. He didn't ask Feeyo to discuss his GPl licence decisions, when feeyo has what he feels is clear fact-based research backing up his decision to keep some small parts closed source. Which really SHOULD be enough for all of us.
It's the same old crap from a new group of self righteous GPL followers who don't really understand the ins and outs of the GPL at all in a true, legal, manner.

swatsbiz said:
Should Feeyo be made to bring his ROM into compliance with GPL?
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Click to collapse
Well, yes? Law is law.
And the fact his website has had to be taken down proves it wasn't just us *****ing about Feeyo or Cronos, that it IS a serious issue.
When modifying the Linux kernel and add stuff, you waive your right to keep your stuff private.
Feeyo, trying to obviously get ahead in the game or being a little selfish wanted to keep his scheduler and governor closed, which seems to have bit him in the arse.
It's simple. Make changes, share changes.

Lox haven't stopped Feeyo he stopped in first place US! Thank you very much for your initiative, dude!

[Kitchen-ROM] Kitchen Cleaner v1.0 1/30/2011

Kitchen Cleaner
Features
- Removes Samsung keyboard, bluetooth.apk (printing over bluetooth), Browser22.apk, divx.apk (for registering), FactoryTest.apk, lcdtest.apk, OTA apps, TTS, signin.apk (samsung login), Soundplayer.apk, Google Talk, Touchwiz calculator, vpnservices.apk, wlantest.apk, and shutdown animation.
- Clean Black Theme with parts taken from 3 other themes and a little of my own work
-- Black-theme modded MMS
-- Black-theme modded Marketplace
-- Black-theme modded Phone/Contacts
-- Black-theme modded Calculator
-- 4 lockscreens
-- accurate battery mod
-- extended power menu
- default black wallpaper
- black-themed WP7 style gingerbread keyboard
- hosts ad-blocking
- Xan's Voltage Control app 3.0 Final
- Suckerpunch OC/UV Kernel #32 100HZ
- Call Log no longer shows MMS messages.
- Lag-Free Gallery.
- di11igaf's browser fix.
- ZNKP1 modem for amazing battery life.
- Correct build.prop.fingerprint for protected apps.
Download links removed.

INSTALLATION
If you are coming from another ROM that uses speedmod, suckerpunch, or a kernel with Universal Lagfix, then you should be able to just flash right on top of it from CWM. This ROM will WIPE all data on your internal SD card.
Otherwise, I recommend that you ODIN back to stock/Master Clear, and then flash this rom in clockwork recovery.
1. Flash a ROM created in Doc's Rom Kitchen, preferably the one I have provided.
2. After rebooting, then flash the Kitchen Cleaner.
3. After rebooting, feel free to go back into recovery to enable lagfix and tweaks.
4. Enjoy!
SCREENSHOTS
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There's already a kitchen/custom rom thread that Borg maintains. Considering this is Docs base did he sign off on this? I only ask because others have done this have since closed the thread.
Sent from my liberated Captivate via XDA App.

Well it is his base, but it has been changed a pretty good bit.

Agreed but that's the whole idea of the kitchen though. Good luck dude. Best to give Doc a heads up though, it's only right.
Sent from my liberated Captivate via XDA App.

I'm not trying to say I did all this by myself, I even wrote in the topic that I AM NOT A DEV. I will let Doc know about this thread though.

why wouldn't doc want people to share what they had made with his kitchen.
its clearly advertised and acknowledged so this seems like it is advertising for his thread/product. Seems like if anything this would just make people more interested in trying his kitchen and frequenting his thread or looking to his others works.

bames said:
why wouldn't doc want people to share what they had made with his kitchen.
its clearly advertised and acknowledged so this seems like it is advertising for his thread/product. Seems like if anything this would just make people more interested in trying his kitchen and frequenting his thread or looking to his others works.
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Multiple reasons, but as Android is aOSp (emphasizing 'open source'), it isn't a huge deal. It's just that technically what the OP did (or could have done) was take someone else's custom ROM and change a few things then call it his own. That's why people are afraid of others republishing ROMs from the kitchen. But as long as the owner acknowledges that they are not a dev (X), they used the kitchen (X) which belongs to someone else (X), and they notified that 'someone else' beforehand (sorta x...) and got the okay from them (didn't do that, but s'all good), then they're in the clear.
On to the ROM: Seems like an okay idea. I'm assuming there aren't really any bugs... but for those who'd want to start from the bottom up, or just stay at the bottom, this is a good idea (though the bottom up is why we have the ROM Kitchen lol).

Loggik said:
Multiple reasons, but as Android is aOSp (emphasizing 'open source'), it isn't a huge deal. It's just that technically what the OP did (or could have done) was take someone else's custom ROM and change a few things then call it his own. That's why people are afraid of others republishing ROMs from the kitchen. But as long as the owner acknowledges that they are not a dev (X), they used the kitchen (X) which belongs to someone else (X), and they notified that 'someone else' beforehand (sorta x...), then they're in the clear.
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Click to collapse
I get that...but this is the 2nd time i have seen a forum member get beaten up for what someone else (could have done). If the poster doesn't do it and gives proper credit and acknowledgment of the source for their material.....other posters should stop whining.
Personally i think this posters credit/acknowledgment in the OP was enough.....but for future reference maybe it will help if anyone doing this put the cred to the kitchen in the thread title.
Seriously...its just free advertising and props for a really cool concept/dev/customization tool (the kitchen) that might inspire other members to play with and utilize it which i would imagine was the desired end result of its creators.

If anyone is interested, I can make 2 versions of the rom. One with absolute basics (70-ish MB) and this one (115-ish MB).
I think the kitchen was the best thing to happen, all I wanted to do was share something that made me really happy. I don't care about the credit or the fame.

bames said:
I get that...but this is the 2nd time i have seen a forum member get beaten up for what someone else (could have done). If the poster doesn't do it and gives proper credit and acknowledgment of the source for their material.....other posters should stop whining...
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Click to collapse
Please show me the part of my post that "beat him up". Was it my good luck wishes or the wink? I just warning him because I've seen this a FEW times. No one is attacking anyone.
Sent from my liberated Captivate via XDA App.

Thread name change
bames said:
....other posters should stop whining.
Personally i think this posters credit/acknowledgment in the OP was enough.....but for future reference maybe it will help if anyone doing this put the cred to the kitchen in the thread title..
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Click to collapse
+1 Thread Title; +1 stop the negativity and flame
I would suggest we propose a blanket solution via thread Title format change to Doc&Stef and Captainkrtek:
Thread Title:"[ROM- Romkitchen.org]:v.9.xx : CleanFreak v0.9....."
Attempt to get permission and keep working. It seems that borguesian also released GingerBorgMod in this same spirit.
In fact maybe that means that the thread title should read
:"[ROM- Romkitchen.org]:v.9.xx :Gingerborgmod- CleanFreak v0.9....."
One desire of mine is that we continue to develop knowledge about the kitchens functionality and facilitate development of the Captivate side of it.
I think Cappy users are using the kitchen and not talking about the results anywhere. Bad step-children to the I9000.

I'll change the thread title, and I agree I think using the Kitchen allows fresh thoughts and perspectives. Maybe someone like me will make a ROM and come up with something that no one ever would have thought of without the ROM Kitchen allowing them a chance to make their own ROM.

bames said:
I get that...but this is the 2nd time i have seen a forum member get beaten up for what someone else (could have done). If the poster doesn't do it and gives proper credit and acknowledgment of the source for their material.....other posters should stop whining.
Personally i think this posters credit/acknowledgment in the OP was enough
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Click to collapse
I made my post clearly stating that the OP had done almost everything right, and there was no reason to "beat him up". No one in this thread was or is whining or beating him up for anything, because he did give credit. lrs just warned him because he hadn't contacted and gotten permission from the owner of the Kitchen and didn't want anything bad to happen. I think that Doc is generous enough in the fact that it doesn't put a "MADE IN DOC'S KITCHEN" bootanimation.zip on every one of its ROMs that it generates, so I think it's safe to say that it'd be respectful and kind to at least ask Doc if he could publish a ROM made in his kitchen.
lrs421 said:
Please show me the part of my post that "beat him up". Was it my good luck wishes or the wink? I just warning him because I've seen this a FEW times. No one is attacking anyone.
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^ Agreed.

Also, I'd just like to point out that just because it was made in the Kitchen does not mean that I did not put a lot of effort into this ROM. Yes, it has parts taken from other ROMs, I am not denying that fact. Just try to look past all of that and focus on what open source is really about, sharing ideas and resources openly in order to improve upon what we already have.

lrs421 said:
Please show me the part of my post that "beat him up". Was it my good luck wishes or the wink? I just warning him because I've seen this a FEW times. No one is attacking anyone.
Sent from my liberated Captivate via XDA App.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"beaten up" was over-reaction/statement on my part. My apologies as i didn't intend to offend or specifically point a finger at you. Was still agitated by the last thread of this nature in which people were much less kind than you were.
It just seems people can't resist the urge to put their two cents in with follow ups saying "this isn't your rom" or your "using someone else's base" when the user has already stated such in their OP thread and directed credit to the proper source.
If someone creates their own base and utilizes another members theme...stating such and giving proper credit in the op wouldn't it be redundant if half the posters felt the need to point out "thats not your theme" when that fact is already in the OP.
I agree best solution is for Doc's Kitchen Base to be referenced in the thread title.

Not only is credit given, but he has done a considerable amount of research and troubleshooting figuring out what exactly can be removed. This isn't the case of somebody just spending 2 minutes putting something together with the rom kitchen and posting it as his own work.
ryude didn't even want to post this, but a couple of us asked him to because of the uniqueness of the package. Find another rom that is less than 88mb with this base... you won't find it.
Ryude,
I know how you feel about taking credit for others work and feel terrible that people have reacted in a way that implies that you have. I'm sorry that I even suggested this.
Cezar has a CWM zip that deletes what he considers bloat in the Continuum thread. Maybe look at that script and write a new one that deletes the packages and post it as a mod? The end result should be the same.

Not for nothing, that dailer is sick. Minus the video call option .
As I said originally, good luck!

rootnik said:
Not only is credit given, but he has done a considerable amount of research and troubleshooting figuring out what exactly can be removed. This isn't the case of somebody just spending 2 minutes putting something together with the rom kitchen and posting it as his own work.
ryude didn't even want to post this, but a couple of us asked him to because of the uniqueness of the package. Find another rom that is less than 88mb with this base... you won't find it.
Ryude,
I know how you feel about taking credit for others work and feel terrible that people have reacted in a way that implies that you have. I'm sorry that I even suggested this.
Cezar has a CWM zip that deletes what he considers bloat in the Continuum thread. Maybe look at that script and write a new one that deletes the packages and post it as a mod? The end result should be the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree he did nothing wrong and in a previous instance i saw someone post a similar thread giving proper credit to the kitchen and he was actually flamed pretty badly.
My suggestion is for those who use the kitchen is to posted the Kitchen Base Credit in the thread title.
Maybe Doc can specify in the OP what he would prefer to see included in the thread title from those who repost roms created with the kitchen?

bames said:
"beaten up" was over-reaction/statement ... Was still agitated by the last thread of this nature in which people were much less kind than you were..
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I also certainly didn't mean to emphasize that anyone had been mean, other than lingering reaction to another threads sentiment.
It can get dangerously like a a schoolchilds playground here with everyone trying to oust people from their clique. I am sure that there are a scant few parents here, but I am highly sensitized to people acting that way. I know too, as adults we tend to be defensive of the sweat we put into things. As schoolchildren or adults, we need to learn to be less defensive and more inclusive.
Teambuilding and leadership.

Why are people here such dicks?

Considering there is about a grand total of 3 or 4 people working on releasing ROMs for the Fascinate: how is it that there are so many dev-snobs and assholes who go out of their way to insult and make fun of anyone who tries their hand at development?
I don't know anyone on here personally.. However, as someone who is very interested in seeing development continue for this phone, I am constantly shocked recently at the unhelpful, snide and outright mean remarks being made towards people who are interested in helping provide ROM options for the Fascinate.
(Disclaimer: I've made 5+ donations to developers on here, and consider myself a supporter of anyone who works on this phone.)

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gfosco said:
Considering there is about a grand total of 3 or 4 people working on releasing ROMs for the Fascinate: how is it that there are so many dev-snobs and assholes who go out of their way to insult and make fun of anyone who tries their hand at development?
I don't know anyone on here personally.. However, as someone who is very interested in seeing development continue for this phone, I am constantly shocked recently at the unhelpful, snide and outright mean remarks being made towards people who are interested in helping provide ROM options for the Fascinate.
(Disclaimer: I've made 5+ donations to developers on here, and consider myself a supporter of anyone who works on this phone.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im sure this will be a long ramble, so bare with me
first and foremost there several issues here:
1. the reaction/action of end users in forum threads and posts
2. the perceived "dev-snob"
3. lack of welcoming of a new "dev" by existing ones (really 2 and 3 can go together)
4. what makes someone a "developer" and the downward spiral in skill level of those who "develop"
(notice i put develop and developer in quotes a lot)
for starters there are often times here on xda (and other places) where there is blatant trolling and arguing in threads. In some cases its actually pretty funny, with light hearted jabs at one another, other times its pointless and wrong. ive been in my share of arguments and flame wars with people posting ridiculous stuff in my threads before (many of those said folks are now perma banned from here) and admittedly ive poked my nose in where it probably didnt belong in others' threads.
all in all i think the mods do an ok job of walking the line of enforcement. we've done ok with those who have moderated the fascinate forums...some of the other phones have mods who...well i wont say something ill regret
as to the "dev-snob" statement...yeah sure, there does tend to be a period of adjustment or questioning or confusion by existing rom/kernel/mod "devs" when someone pops out of nowhere and starts releasing stuff...the majority of the time, once a person proves their abilities, skills, or are generally a nice person who wants to learn or work with you that period of questioning dies down and all is well...more often than not though, people don't pop out of nowhere...they are forum or irc regulars who have expressed interest in working on stuff or theyre more well known on another device, and we are just getting acquainted with them
but there is the rare occasion (which seems to be the case the last month or two here) where an individual started their entrance into the community with a plethora of hype threads, posts, and otherwise where they claimed their "long awaited rom" would soon becoming. this is annoying enough, but when the long awaited works put out are nothing to really shake a stick at, ie just differently themed existing roms with placebo mods or completely inexplicable things done (market apps in /system/ on an aosp rom) it further irritates others.
imo thats getting off on the wrong foot
furthermore its gotten worse...insane claims that border on delusional have become the norm, ie: hybrid ios/webos roms for the fascinate! 245/23rds of the community use my roms! i dont remember making this thread! the rom will be out tomorrow...i mean the day after...i mean 2013!
or just examples of n00bness that would otherwise be fine (decompiling a jar anyone?) if not for the surrounding hype associated to one's abilities
in the past fascinate devs havent always gotten along...i think anyone around in the spring knows that tsm and friends didnt particularly get along with nitro for many reasons that i wont get into atm...but on the whole collaboration is frequent, legitimate friendships or at least good relationships amongst others are common as well.
now what makes a developer? i put that term in quotes so often because what who we classify as a developer is quite misleading really. I know at times ive considered myself as one or stated it as such (usually when irritated about something), but honestly by any real characterization as such im not..nor is scores of others who are considered in a similar way.
at best, most of us are modders/kangers who are good with comparing code created by smarter individuals than ourselves and then applying the differences to create newer/better/different roms etc. this is especially true to those of who work specifically on skin roms (touchwiz, sense, etc) because..the rom already exists, we just package a bunch of these mods in, clean it up and throw it out.
now that is an over simplification, and its actually a harder process than i make it sound, but its true.
now for folks who build aosp and kernels, id be more inclined to consider them a developer...linux adept individuals who build os/roms from scratch or at least with heavy contributions by themselves...again thats not the case for everyone, as just building a kernel from someone's source with some undervolt or overclock tweaks isnt much different than hacking a stock rom.
the same can be said for someone who compiles aosp from again, someone else source and makes minimal changes to it (theme, shoving some apps in, changing launchers)
no less than adrynalyne, doesnt even really consider himself a developer and is constantly brushing aside that tag
in the earlier stages of android (g1 through say the early og inc/evo4g days) the individuals who worked on roms and kernels were generally people who were either self taught with linux, went to school for something in the computer field, or worked in it.
since then (myself included) individuals who gradually got into rooting, and running custom roms and themes etc have come on the scene. i personally have no computer background and hadnt heard of linux until i got an android phone...eventually wanting to put different themes on my phone got me into understanding the structure of a rom (like many others have started out) and from there I got more involved.
the problem with this is, there is generally a mindset or chip on the shoulder that a lot of newer folks carry, and imagine themselves more important or greater than they really are...some of these individuals (and even those from the beginnings, cant execuse all of them) are great at self promoting and gathering supporters...just look at a certain other samsung phone on verizon, where an individual has become incredibly popular for releasing *throms* with little mods..but i digress
to me, a great majority of said folks can be snakes, begging for donations or notoriety or their own little version of fame
anyway, ive gotten off the beaten path and covered stuff that wasnt asked by the op...hope ive made *some* sense in some parts anyway
theres something to be commended for wanting to help out and get involved...but the term chopper coined says it well: "lurk, learn, and stfu"
hang around, gradually learn stuff, and keep quiet while doing so

it's teh interweb forums... if you take this **** that serious you have a problem.

Thanks for the post, @nitsuj17! I think you explained it very well... I also like the Chopper quote, and have tried my best to do that.
@droidstyle - That's a cop-out and a lame excuse if you ask me.

I think most are dicks because they get pissed of by others that are too f*cking lazy to search for answers. Most people just create stupid threads to ask the same stupid questions over and over again.
99% of your questions have already been answered on the forum...

@nitsuj17 I thought that phrase was coined by times_infinity; chopper the dog says "good day."
Has anyone seen John Connor?

skynet11 said:
@nitsuj17 I thought that phrase was coined by times_infinity; chopper the dog says "good day."
Has anyone seen John Connor?
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Click to collapse
afaik it was chopper in irc one day and a bunch of guys put it in their profiles...at least as i recall it

Oic... Now that you mention it, it does sound like a "chopper-ism"
Has anyone seen John Connor?

@gfosco: it's all Sergei's fault
Has anyone seen John Connor?

skynet11 said:
@nitsuj17 I thought that phrase was coined by times_infinity; chopper the dog says "good day."
Has anyone seen John Connor?
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Click to collapse
lolololololol. I found where I first said it
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=14941301&highlight=xda+developers#post14941301
Still a classic read to this day. Scroll back in the thread for even better times.
good day.

skynet11 said:
@gfosco: it's all Sergei's fault
Has anyone seen John Connor?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO...
Sent from your mothers bedroom

gfosco said:
@droidstyle - That's a cop-out and a lame excuse if you ask me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
point is I have never for the most part noticed any dev or member being a **** to somebody that didn't deserve it. I'm sure the devs don't mind anybody trying to develop, but you better come correct. meaning;
ask before you kang somones work.
properly credit the devs work your using.
don't take another devs rom add a bunch of market add-ons and call it your own.
don't start a bs poll trying to get more recogniton and compare yourself to a well respected dev that has pretty much taken the fascinate to a new level.
I'm pretty sure the member you are referring to didn't follow along these lines and that's why he/she gets super trolled

chopper the dog said:
lolololololol. I found where I first said it
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=14941301&highlight=xda+developers#post14941301
Still a classic read to this day. Scroll back in the thread for even better times.
good day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah! I remember that one! Classic flaming at its best!
Has anyone seen John Connor?

Speaking of the thread chopper the dog linked above ^^^, where are jptech and navenedrob nowadays?
Has anyone seen John Connor?

I voted for all of them!
Seriously, though, nitsuj is pretty right. I'd stay in troll character, but I am playing with my new Touchpad.

I play a **** on TV.......u left that one out! and boom goes the dynamite! hmmm maybe a new sig!

Please no!
Has anyone seen John Connor?

Well said. Thank you for the thoughtful insight.
nitsuj17 said:
im sure this will be a long ramble, so bare with me
first and foremost there several issues here:....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

This is the dynamic of the interactions in any walk or at any stage in life whether it's middle, high school, your job, your friends or any social circle. Why would you think it would be any different here.? We're a bunch of regular guys that have two things in common: our love for android and disdain for apple. The rest is natural human behavior
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium

Should DEV assign MODDER for their ROM?

Hi Everybody,
Yes, me speaking about true DEVELOPERS in here(which is not make a rom based on other).Should they assign someone(MODDERS) who can make their rom more beautiful a.k.a retheme and place it under the ori one?
What goods in this?
1.to reduce(zero maybe) qtty retheme rom threads in DEV sec cause the modder
finally know & have the right place to share their talent.
2.ppl also know the right place to try any rom & give a feedback to DEV(bugs, etc)in the right thread
3.to reduce gaps between DEV & MODDER if their are working together.
4.thread based other roms also can totaly prohibit cause modder now can placed a rom under DEV wing.
5.to encourage these modders learn to make own rom if they insist to open new thread in DEV sec.
Again,why retheme roms threats not belongs in DEV sec?
People will complains any bugs in a false threads which it should be in ori rom thread.THIS IS NOT HELPING DEVELOPMENT AT ALL...
BTW,this are some suggestion only & forgive me if this will offend somebody cause im sincerely but no good with words

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zmuhammx said:
Hi Everybody,
Yes, me speaking about true DEVELOPERS in here(which is not make a rom based on other).Should they assign someone(MODDERS) who can make their rom more beautiful a.k.a retheme and place it under the ori one?
What goods in this?
1.to reduce(zero maybe) qtty retheme rom threads in DEV sec cause the modder
finally know & have the right place to share their talent.
2.ppl also know the right place to try any rom & give a feedback to DEV(bugs, etc)in the right thread
3.to reduce gaps between DEV & MODDER if their are working together.
4.thread based other roms also can totaly prohibit cause modder now can placed a rom under DEV wing.
5.to encourage these modders learn to make own rom if they insist to open new thread in DEV sec.
Again,why retheme roms threats not belongs in DEV sec?
People will complains any bugs in a false threads which it should be in ori rom thread.THIS IS NOT HELPING DEVELOPMENT AT ALL...
BTW,this are some suggestion only & forgive me if this will offend somebody cause im sincerely but no good with words
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partially dis-agree.
I dis-agree with the fact that modders should be assigned. Everybody and anybody should be free and distribute their mods (obviously giving credits etc and with permission of the original devs)
I agree with the fact this is not development.
I agree with the fact , that all mods should be placed under the original ROM
I was wondering , how would this concept work , if the modded ROM is based on two or more ROMS ?
I really don't think it is practical enough ? I really don't know...
Edit : B.Jay , I just ROFLed

B.Jay said:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol classic
Sent from my X8 using Tapatalk

Mayank77 said:
I partially dis-agree.
I dis-agree with the fact that modders should be assigned. Everybody and anybody should be free and distribute their mods (obviously giving credits etc and with permission of the original devs)
I agree with the fact this is not development.
I agree with the fact , that all mods should be placed under the original ROM
I was wondering , how would this concept work , if the modded ROM is based on two or more ROMS ?
I really don't think it is practical enough ? I really don't know...
Edit : B.Jay , I just ROFLed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for reply,
This sugestion for DEV only & they will decide it.For exp:B.Jay decided no mods for his rom & we must respect that.(ppl doing it anyway even not in here)
For some DEV who would like to see their rom much prettier but dont have time to do it(focus on bugs & their had their real life too)can make announcement in their thread & invite somebody who can.
There is misunderstood in here cause me suggest for RETHEME roms only.Based on two or more roms,porting,works on stock kernel also considered a DEVELOPMENT(me not mention cause they usually came up with "package")& usually have diff bugs.The one im talking is the pure one which is a DEV 100% own it.The main point in this is DEV will know the bugs even if ppl on retheme roms and make space for these modder to share their talent legally in here.We have to admit,ppl would bother to have ICS if the ui is the same as GB,Like it or not beauty is the first impression.
Again,DEV can decide which is best for their roms.Im not pushing anybody in here just to share what I think sincerely.

I kinda understand your point...what you're talking about is a collaboration or a deal between the devs and modders...the only example which pops into my head when i see this thread is like nAa and D_d...nAa develops the roms while D_d designs the themes for the roms i know its not 100% accurate with what you're suggesting, but im just giving the best example i can

Well, to avoid this I always thought that the Dev could UPLOAD THEIR OWN version of their ROM that's modded and themed.
e.g:
GingerDX v30
Original: DOWNLOAD
Sony Style: DOWNLOAD
ICS Style: DOWNLOAD
Sense: Download
Sent from my R800i using xda premium

IrishStuff09 said:
Well, to avoid this I always thought that the Dev could UPLOAD THEIR OWN version of their ROM that's modded and themed.
e.g:
GingerDX v30
Original: DOWNLOAD
Sony Style: DOWNLOAD
ICS Style: DOWNLOAD
Sense: Download
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not bad!!!
the idea is great but developer will have to leave behind private life, family and girlfriend if he wanna do it by yourself! But if all developers have "their own Dark dogs" it may be possible!

Let me make one thing clear....dark dog is a rcognized themer !!! makes his own themes for minicm......soft modders JUST take a theme of achep and sony sekhon and others.....

Rahat34 said:
Let me make one thing clear....dark dog is a rcognized themer !!! makes his own themes for minicm......soft modders JUST take a theme of achep and sony sekhon and others.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said!

RohinZaraki said:
I kinda understand your point...what you're talking about is a collaboration or a deal between the devs and modders...the only example which pops into my head when i see this thread is like nAa and D_d...nAa develops the roms while D_d designs the themes for the roms i know its not 100% accurate with what you're suggesting, but im just giving the best example i can
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rohin,
since im new in here,me not sure if this kind of tag-team has practicing in here.Only i can see so many retheme roms based on other which is can divine by 2
1.No developement at all-update only a look but bugs still in there.people complain bugs but modder cant do nothing to fixs it.
2. has developement- bugs fixing just because modder actually has knowledge to make own rom but make a easy way by used other or someone just pop up with fixing.
Conclusion is:anything at all should go to ORIGINAL rom thread.All complain,bugs,fixing,thanks,anything belongs to ORIGINAL DEV.
My suggest only for this purpose:
1.modder with or without rom knowledge-they have spot for them & maybe they can learn some with a DEV.Dev also can learn something from these modder.
2.Anything will go to right place(what i saying above)
3.If somebody not happy with idea ORI DEV got all,learn make ur own & retheme anyway u like.
Many great DEV has left us cause feel disappoint of these trend but not given us a childish excuse like"oh! im feeling so tired stick my nose to many my based rom thread for find what wrong with my rom"
Cheers

IrishStuff09 said:
Well, to avoid this I always thought that the Dev could UPLOAD THEIR OWN version of their ROM that's modded and themed.
e.g:
GingerDX v30
Original: DOWNLOAD
Sony Style: DOWNLOAD
ICS Style: DOWNLOAD
Sense: Download
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If dev have time & knowledge, they will.If modder are sincerely enough to help dev & just loved to share their work,i believe there no reason dev will say no

As a recognised themer myself, I can safely say that sometimes TRULY theming a ROM can be just as painful and time-consuming as developing it.
BUT it is not development nonetheless.
Also what is NOT development is picking up init.d scripts from Android General section, packing it in a developers ROM and re-distributing it as a new one under your name.
This discussion can go on and on but I am sure you get the point.
This thread is quite interesting, because I really feel a bit disappointed by all the "ROMs" that flood the Development section, when the amount of real developing is very low.
Let me also say, I am not talking specifically about X8 section, it is a general phenomenon in pretty much all Sony forums.

And who says that the themers aren't devs to?
Its very hard....

What about GPL and Open Source?
Not taking any sides here, just gonna play Devil's Advocate for a bit and see if anyone can answer..
Under GPL, open source code can be used, changed and redistributed WITHOUT the permission of the code creator..
nAa, paul-xxx and all the other devs here have done exactly that.. Taken the GPL code, changed it, and are redistributing it WITHOUT prior consent of the REAL code dev..
Don't you all think it's a bit much then that they require us to seek their permission to change code they didn't even write? Same goes for the kernels.. This is GPL code..
Anyone can compile code, in fact it's really easy.. You don't even have to understand code to compile it.. So remember, porting is not coding, it's compiling..
I wonder how many lines of real code belong to the devs here.. My guess is very little..
Let me know your thoughts on this please devs..
CtrlAltDel.

got your point.. and u can be wright,
but when person x ask permission from person y that can be interpreted as respect person y's earlier work, so its not so bad, isn't it!?

What about GPL and Open Source?
It's actually a violation of GPL. (asking permission to use the code)
You can be prosecuted in a court of law for breaking GPL or trying to change code written under the GPL to another licence..
This is what is happening here and people should be made aware of this..
I would never ask nAa permission to change his kernel for example.. There is no legal requirement to.. In fact, if I ask for his source code, he must supply it whether he likes it or not.. He could face legal implications if he didn't..
I could then redistribute MY kernel anywhere (even charge for it) as long as I supply MY source code to the public.. This is how open source works..
MY FINAL THOUGHT ON THIS..
We should kick ass in the open source world, not kiss ass!
CtrlAltDel

CtrlAltDelIrl said:
MY FINAL THOUGHT ON THIS..
We should kick ass in the open source world, not kiss ass!
CtrlAltDel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree, but this is totally of topic man!

iridaki said:
As a recognised themer myself, I can safely say that sometimes TRULY theming a ROM can be just as painful and time-consuming as developing it.
BUT it is not development nonetheless.
Also what is NOT development is picking up init.d scripts from Android General section, packing it in a developers ROM and re-distributing it as a new one under your name.
This discussion can go on and on but I am sure you get the point.
This thread is quite interesting, because I really feel a bit disappointed by all the "ROMs" that flood the Development section, when the amount of real developing is very low.
Let me also say, I am not talking specifically about X8 section, it is a general phenomenon in pretty much all Sony forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For all due respect,
Me agreed that retheme also need a hard work indeed.in fact typing this also is hard for me& taking 1/2 hrs to finish it
That why me brough up this because me see Retheme also same important as make a rom.me try to see win-win situations in here.
1.A make a thread for his fresh new rom,he/she also would like to see it grow & alive
2.then B came up,open new thread with much beautiful rom based on A's.
3.ppl will definitely go to B thread & left A thread dying.
4.even worse,C came up with rom based on A's or B's
Now u think, are its fair for A since He/She has start it first?
True,make a diff also can called it DEV but are this kind DEV we want?
By hurting other ppl feeling?
So what me suggest is,A make some space for B and C.Ppl will stick to A's thread and it will grow as it should be without hurting anyone.
Meantime,if B or C still not happy with it they should learn to make own rom & do whatever they like.
God bless all.
p/s: Retheme me talking here is make own theme not based on other totherwise,I also can be a modder

Choice, choice and (wait for it) more choice
This is exactly what open source offers us... Choice and plenty of it..
A good programmer doesn't make a good themer - I agree totally..
What one considers visually appealing can look like sh*t to another..
Thankfully we have choice so everyone is a winner..
Everyone here should be able to find the blend of features, performance and looks they desire..
If not, they are free to take any rom / kernel / theme and build their own.. This is one of the freedoms the GPL affords us.. We shouldn't ignore it.. We should relish it..
I agree with the idea of grouping MiniCM, GingerDX roms etc..
It would make finding similar roms much easier and would help bug tracking..
I've yet to see one proper bug report on XDA though..
Have fun,
CtrlAltDel

Looks like we were to hard at THOR2000 after al...

http://androidandme.com/2012/07/new...discuss-the-cyanogenmod-project-at-google-io/
Look what he says at 2:00 min.

-1
The same thing the official xda policy and most devs that read licensing say:
Linux kernel is GPL - must remain open
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thor refuses to release the kernel source.. XDA's policy is simple here: not to allow it on xda.

So, who to believe... XDA or CyanogenMod?

sRDennyCrane said:
So, who to believe... XDA or CyanogenMod?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean? Both xda and cyanogen mod agree that the kernel must be open source if redistributed. So believe either.. if this confuses you ask the one you believe more.
If you didn't watch the video do it he mentions the note about the kernel two or three times as well as having it on the slide.

I'm asking for clarification. Does Thor use a modified Android platform? The video says it's licensed under Apache and he can do whatever he wants. What exactly does Thor do that's different from the Apache licensed mods mentioned?

sRDennyCrane said:
I'm asking for clarification. Does Thor use a modified Android platform? The video says it's licensed under Apache and he can do whatever he wants. What exactly does Thor do that's different from the Apache licensed mods mentioned?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He keeps his source closed. AOSP. Android OPEN SOURCE Project. All that Apache and GPL stuff basically says Linux is open source, Android is open source, therefore what is done with Android must be open source. Thats an EXTREMELY simple version of it, but hopefully it gets the point across. Thor doesn't play by open source rules, his rom isn't welcome here.
I don't see why you care so much about his rom. Anyone that wants it knows how to get it. Anyone that doesn't know where its at knows how to use google.

sRDennyCrane said:
So, who to believe... XDA or CyanogenMod?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both. They said the same thing. Kernel must remain open per GPL2. Rest of the system can be closed.
The issue with Thor is the kernel, not the whole ROM.

terrormattie said:
http://androidandme.com/2012/07/new...discuss-the-cyanogenmod-project-at-google-io/
Look what he says at 2:00 min.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see that some people have a hard time to differentiate between the Android OS and Linux kernel which is used by the OS.
Learn this once and for all that the whole thing with Thor being banned from posting his ROMs here is because he bundles them with his custom built Linux kernels (which are on GPL) but doesn't provide source code to the kernel at all.
Android's Apache license does not change the kernel GPL license.

yaworski said:
I see that some people have a hard time to differentiate between the Android OS and Linux kernel which is used by the OS.
Learn this once and for all that the whole thing with Thor being banned from posting his ROMs here is because he bundles them with his custom built Linux kernels (which are on GPL) but doesn't provide source code to the kernel at all.
Android's Apache license does not change the kernel GPL license.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be patient with a newcomer to all this... all I've ever done was basic rooting and flashing a couple ROMs. The meat and potatoes are still pretty new to me. What IS the difference between the Linux kernal and the Android OS?

sRDennyCrane said:
Be patient with a newcomer to all this... all I've ever done was basic rooting and flashing a couple ROMs. The meat and potatoes are still pretty new to me. What IS the difference between the Linux kernal and the Android OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The kernel is the bootstrap code and drivers. The Android OS is the rest of the package.
A good comparison from the history of PCs is that the kernel is DOS 6.22 and Android is windows 3.1
Its not a perfect example but its close.

If there are any components that others hold copyrights for, then it is covered by gpl and the source needs to be provided. The owners of said copyrighted works could sue. Same reason that the manufacturers have to make kernel source available. Pretty sure apache only applies to the rest of android source, not the kernel source.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

Oh good grief, not this crap again...

FloatingFatMan said:
Oh good grief, not this crap again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I know. I got sucked in by the title being clipped on the Iconia landing page...
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I'd have never even looked if there was any sort of heads up.
Too bad these threads aren't named, For examples...
"Thor-The Sequel"
"Another Thor Discussion"
"Thors-Revenge"
or simply, "Thor, We've done this all before, but why not one more time..."(Maybe that one should be reworked to be the anthem for these events???).
Really, this ones been settled (LIKE A ZILLION TIMES). Let it die.
And please for the love of God, PLEASE make the titles clear on this topic in the future. I swear that I will stay out and keep my trap shut.
Disclaimer: No disrespect intended, implied or infered by the above statements, towards Mr.Thor. That particular Dev is a fricken genius. The worn out, tired a$$, rode hard put up wet, stale like grannies panties topic is the target.

For all you blaming Thor... I did not see any of you on the Avengers movie, so your arguments are not valid...
The simple thing that some people cannot get is that Thor2000 was not expelled, banned or sued from the internet... And they are the same people that cannot understand what XDA is about or why they do not find modified versions of Angry Birds in the site...
It is simple; The XDA was created to encourage developers out of companies (not necessarily) to create and build software which they would share with others, so that the final outcome be improved and distributed widely... In order to maintain that open community they had to apply some basic and strict rules.. One of them is sharing so that it is indeed an open community and not a private company. Another is not to copy code from non-open-source software so that they keep the site legal.
Thor2000, even if one of my favorite developers, did not comply with the first rule, that is sharing. His very good roms and kernels are available to everyone for free but this is only the one side of sharing. The other side is someone take his kernel, modify it improve it, like he did since did not created his software from ground zero... However this is not possible because as other people mention he keeps his code closed. It is his right to do it but he just does not fit XDA for the purposes it was created.
So get over it... XDA is not the site that gives you free software... They were not hard to Thor2000. I bet that the same people who whine about THOR, they may search for a cracked version of navigation software in this site. I am not an expert at all, but after a few years I understood what open-source community actuallymeans ...

Well, here we go again.........
For you n00bs, the reason Thor2002ro left, was because there were issues of "somebody" using his kernel source, without giving proper recognition (as the story goes back in the old days, maybe just a legend). So Thor decided to create his own site, and things are relatively quiet. This was based on XDA requires kernel source to be "open" and links posted to kernel source if the kernel was modified. Not Ramdisk, but the kernel.
The reason this is in place, can anybody remember "carrier IQ"? A lot of things can be done to manipulate and transfer data via the kernel, if such wanted. That's the dark side of things. But in the spirit of Android itself, the kernel source must remain open. That's the way it is dictated.
Not to re-hash the same old thing again, but for you n00bs, read the GPL (general public license) regarding kernel source. No, you can find a lot about it. Just Google it and put your google search to good use.
Personally, I would like to see Thor come back to XDA. He's a heck of a Dev, and a pretty good guy. But as it stands, no links to kernel source, no posting kernels or roms containing such kernels at XDA. And that's pretty much the bottom line on things. You n00bs can read the rules if you wish.
As for me, I adhere to the rules at XDA, and yes, at times I have to enforce them. After all, I am an XDA Moderator, and I stand by the rules established and that's the way it is.
So let's not get into another "Thor bashing" contest. No need to.
MD

I agree with MD, and I really wish people would stop bringing this topic up. Thor's a good dev who made some choices incompatible with XDA and the GPL. End of.
MD, perhaps a good idea to lock the thread?

FloatingFatMan said:
I agree with MD, and I really wish people would stop bringing this topic up. Thor's a good dev who made some choices incompatible with XDA and the GPL. End of.
MD, perhaps a good idea to lock the thread?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry Mate, if I could, I would.
It's not a forum I am assigned to. I can however, do "other " things.
But for now, there is no need to. Some people, just don't understand the whole scope of things. Only just an ignorant part of it. They try to take things personally, yet they have no personal affiliation with it.
One day, in the future, things will be ok.
For now, we have rules.
MD

I for one appreciate all the explanations here... at least those done objectively and without drama. Some of us who are relatively new to this scene aren't "noobs", and just needed to be brought up to speed. Thanks!