Database Users

4G... not really 4G

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/111455/4g-is-a-myth-and-confusing
Plus the fact it's not even close to my area of living

yeah cell providers called it that cause it sounded good, and for them was technincally the 4th generation of mobile internet - but it is not what 4G officially stands for.... there IS NO real 4g networks anywhere, as the standards are in their infancy.

Old news. ITU said this a while back. It's funny, I talked to Verizon at their Chicago LTE launch event and they laughed and said, it's all marketing anyway, so who cares.
ITU has no teeth, so no one really cares.

WiMax and LTE are 4G networks that aren't being used as that yet. All that's needed is a firmware upgrade to make it true 4G.
Tmobile on the other hand will never have 4G with their current network.
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xHausx said:
WiMax and LTE are 4G networks that aren't being used as that yet. All that's needed is a firmware upgrade to make it true 4G.
Tmobile on the other hand will never have 4G with their current network.
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Mmm... No. If you want to equate it to something, LTE and 802.16e WiMax that Sprint and Verizon are pushing out is like 802.11b Wi-Fi. Real 4G (LTE-Advanced and 802.16m WiMax) would be more like 802.11n.
Basically, just ask yourself these questions to tell if it's 4G:
1) Do I see speeds of around 100mbps average?
2) Is all traffic being done via IPv6?
3) Are calls being made as VoIP?

Pretty sure that article is way off. I agree that it's not true 4g, but tmobile's hspa+ doesn't even get close to 12mb. Most of the time it barely reaches 4-5mbs.

yeah verizon and sprints networks are more like 3.5 g or 3.25 g. t mobiles is still 3g but since everyone else is slapping 4g stickers on their network they thought they would too, especially since the average consumer doesnt know what the f 4g is anyway. and meanwhile at&t is still trying to get 3g working lol.

Cal3b said:
yeah verizon and sprints networks are more like 3.5 g or 3.25 g. t mobiles is still 3g but since everyone else is slapping 4g stickers on their network they thought they would too, especially since the average consumer doesnt know what the f 4g is anyway. and meanwhile at&t is still trying to get 3g working lol.
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You got me laughing with the AT&T still getting 3g to work well lol and there drop calls lol.

I don't know about the rest of you all, but I live in the central valley, CA and 4G is widely available throughout the region. I average from 6-10mbs down when I do a speedtest. But I only enable 4G when I really need it, otherwise my battery dies rather quickly.

drmacinyasha said:
Mmm... No. If you want to equate it to something, LTE and 802.16e WiMax that Sprint and Verizon are pushing out is like 802.11b Wi-Fi. Real 4G (LTE-Advanced and 802.16m WiMax) would be more like 802.11n.
Basically, just ask yourself these questions to tell if it's 4G:
1) Do I see speeds of around 100mbps average?
2) Is all traffic being done via IPv6?
3) Are calls being made as VoIP?
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Technically LTE and 801.16 in their current implications are called Pre-4G, however, the networks are being built as 4G networks. They are just not being utilized as such and the standards for both types of 4G aren't even finalized yet. They are fully packet switched networks with support for IPv6. The only place where the networks fall short is bandwidth, true 4G requires 100MB nominal speeds with at least 1GB peak. That can't happen until the standards are finalized.
T-Mo's HSPA+ is 3.5G and will never be 4G. There was a wired (I think) article just today saying they were thinking about chipping in on WiMAXs spectrum for their next generation network, aka 4G.
Edit: From the article:
One network representative, who asked not to be identified, claimed that ITU's 4G line-in-the-sand is being misconstrued. The organization previously approved the use of the term "4G" for Sprint's WiMAX and Verizon's LTE networks, he said -- though not for T-Mobile's HSPA+ network.
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Epic - Evo,last of the wimax 4g headsets?

Not sure if you guys been reading about Sprint and how they will switch over to LTE sometimes in 2011. But in any case look like the number of wimax headsets are going to be limited to only a 2 or 3 headsets (HTC-Knight). What you guys think about this and does it only mean we're going to have to hold on to our Epic a bit longer till the new LTE headsets are available?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/09/clearwire_sprint_wimax/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/212878/sprint_ceo_says_wimax_bet_paid_less_than_hoped.html

Sprint isn't going to drop Clearwire and their WiMAX network. They plan on integrating the Nextels 800 MHz spectrum, the 1.9 GHz network and Clearwires 2.5 GHz network. They will then roll out handsets that can take advantage of all of these network bands.
Source: http://www.wirelessweek.com/News/20...elligence-Network-Upgrades-Wireless-Networks/
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Bummer...
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I hope they go for LTE, I'm switching to Verizon as soon as they get an LTE device anyway. Wimax is dying because no one is adopting it around the world and it sounds better on paper than it performs in real life. Sprint is losing so much money I don't know how they're going to survive.

dieselg5 said:
I hope they go for LTE, I'm switching to Verizon as soon as they get an LTE device anyway. Wimax is dying because no one is adopting it around the world and it sounds better on paper than it performs in real life. Sprint is losing so much money I don't know how they're going to survive.
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Sprint is doing way better from an investment standpoint then a couple years ago. And people are adopting it around the world, and they are also going to implement LTE. Source is for international roaming for WiMAX.
Source: http://www.globaltelecomsbusiness.c.../25192/Sprint-agrees-WiMax-roaming-deals.html
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Haha. Verizon LTE sucks. In their tests they were getting less than 10mbps with no congestion. Don't pass on wimax just yet clearwire and sprint are releasing new markets all the time. It will take just as long for verizon to roll out their LTE and everyone will get IMO 2-3mbps until they can figure out what they are doing.
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knx2 said:
Haha. Verizon LTE sucks. In their tests they were getting less than 10mbps with no congestion. Don't pass on wimax just yet clearwire and sprint are releasing new markets all the time. It will take just as long for verizon to roll out their LTE and everyone will get IMO 2-3mbps until they can figure out what they are doing.
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Yup. Don't count wimax out just yet.... http://www.pcworld.com/article/188205/watch_for_wimax_2_in_2011.html
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/04/samsung-showing-off-330mbps-wimax-2-mobile-broadband-over-at-cea/

From what I've been seeing, the only thing that Sprint has to do if they do decide to ditch WiMAX for LTE is change out a couple of cards at the servers and roll out a software update.

rkjg24 said:
From what I've been seeing, the only thing that Sprint has to do if they do decide to ditch WiMAX for LTE is change out a couple of cards at the servers and roll out a software update.
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And i'm sure we will still be paying the extra $10 a month lol

Tired of everyone saying lte is going to be the world standard. It does have a lot of backing but has not been proved in the real world. Wimax has been proved and works well.
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knx2 said:
Haha. Verizon LTE sucks. In their tests they were getting less than 10mbps with no congestion. Don't pass on wimax just yet clearwire and sprint are releasing new markets all the time. It will take just as long for verizon to roll out their LTE and everyone will get IMO 2-3mbps until they can figure out what they are doing.
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Less then 7mbps? What was WiMax on it's low range, because Verizon's LTE was 7-33mbps. 7 was the low. I've read some reports of Verizon's LTE service hitting in the 50mbps on the download and in the 20's for upload.
Personally, I'd rather have Sprint change over to LTE ASAP. This way, since AT&T and VzW will both be on LTE, we can get better coverage due to roaming.
BTW, isn't Sprint's Wimax locked at 2-6mbps with possible busts to 10 or 12 mbps? If you think about it 2-6mbps is 3G already is, so why pay the extra $10 for marketing?

dieselg5 said:
I hope they go for LTE, I'm switching to Verizon as soon as they get an LTE device anyway. Wimax is dying because no one is adopting it around the world and it sounds better on paper than it performs in real life. Sprint is losing so much money I don't know how they're going to survive.
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So you know, the reason why wimax is so slow on sprint is:
1) They cap it
2) They are not using their full spectrum in the 2.5ghz band...in that band from what I read they got 30mhz spectrum and right now only using 10mhz...Verizon only has 20mhz spectrum and using it all for LTE...but they opted to use the extra 10mhz in a way that will give better speed but lower capacity...hence the tiered plans...
crabjoe said:
Personally, I'd rather have Sprint change over to LTE ASAP. This way, since AT&T and VzW will both be on LTE, we can get better coverage due to roaming.
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You do know that AT&T and Verizon are going FD-LTE while sprint would end up going TD-LTE...so they will only be able to "roam" if the equipment supports both and on the right bands...
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As sprint is using only 10mhz for wimax, my guess is they will use the remaining 20mhz for TD-LTE..if you read the news sprint is working with some companies to create a better way of pickign up signals on multiple bands..aka if they end up full switching to TD-LTE it would end up seamless...you wouldn't even notice it..
I personally think going wimax was not a bad idea..its just that sprint messed it up completely...2 things that come to mind are:
1) EVO was a failure..simply because they could not keep it in stock..sprint should have had multiple manufacturers making 4g devices and say released the Epic and EVO together...instead they lost millions by having HTC fail to deliver the stock.
2) Completely failed utilizing their partners..I mean they got comcast and many other cable providers as a partners...they could have used that and made airwave boxes built into the cable and offer quadruple play with cell phones.

gTen said:
I personally think going wimax was not a bad idea..its just that sprint messed it up completely.
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I agree with you. It looks like sprint is learning from their mistakes though. They finally are contracting out work, and going to have multiband handsets. I can't wait to see how they incorporate the existing iden network, well the frequency anyways. Maybe for voice?
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mxcoldhit said:
I agree with you. It looks like sprint is learning from their mistakes though. They finally are contracting out work, and going to have multiband handsets. I can't wait to see how they incorporate the existing iden network, well the frequency anyways. Maybe for voice?
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Aren't they selling the iden network?

gTen said:
Aren't they selling the iden network?
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O didn't think they were. I thought they were going to incorporate the 800MHz network.
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I was just at starbucks that's 100ft from a 4G tower and I was getting 2mbits/1.2mbits down/up and outside I was getting 5mbits/1.2mbits with a clear line of sight. When I had a G1 I was getting 3-4 with a max of 6 mbits in the same spot. So no, wimax doesn't work that well in the real world. I use it more than most people and it sucks about 95% of the time. Using it while you're moving is a joke too.
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dieselg5 said:
I was just at starbucks that's 100ft from a 4G tower and I was getting 2mbits/1.2mbits down/up and outside I was getting 5mbits/1.2mbits with a clear line of sight. When I had a G1 I was getting 3-4 with a max of 6 mbits in the same spot. So no, wimax doesn't work that well in the real world. I use it more than most people and it sucks about 95% of the time. Using it while you're moving is a joke too.
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Was the antenna on the tower facing directly at you? how many bars did you have? what radio were you using? who provided the equipment for the tower in question? what were you using to speedtest? how far away was the server? what was the latency?
I am in NY, I get around 7mbp/sec on 2 bars, 4mb/sec on 1 bar...and as you can guess the there are a lot of interferences and a whole lot of people using 4g..so its as "real world" as it gets..

gTen said:
So you know, the reason why wimax is so slow on sprint is:
1) They cap it
2) They are not using their full spectrum in the 2.5ghz band...in that band from what I read they got 30mhz spectrum and right now only using 10mhz...Verizon only has 20mhz spectrum and using it all for LTE...but they opted to use the extra 10mhz in a way that will give better speed but lower capacity...hence the tiered plans...
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Capped? From what I hear, only the upstream is capped at 1mbps, download is wide open. Clearwire (CW) also hold around 150mhz of spectrum in the 2.5ghz frequency. The problem is 2.5ghz is terrible for building penetration and it's going to cost more to setup all these addition sites to get the any decent indoor coverage. Also, even though Sprint owns majority stakes in Clearwire, how does it help Sprint, when it now looks like Sprint is getting ready to ditch Clearwire for their LTE testing?
BTW isn't CW now trying to sell some of that 150mhz of spectrum they hold to try and stay a float? I don't know how much of it is up for sale, but I don't think all this talk of spectrum will mean much of anything to the average consumer since Sprint doesn't own it, it looks like Sprint is now trying to get away from CW, and VzW has LTE up and running well on what they spectrum have.
As for FD/TD LTE, my understanding is that TD-LTE is already interoperable with FD-LTE, so it looks like Sprint is on the right track if they go TD-LTE. The only issue I see with Sprint roaming on ATT/VzW is roaming contract issues and Sprint would have to make sure they have a 700mhz radio in any LTE device, in addition to whatever frequency they plan on using for their LTE setup.
One question ... doesn't FD-LTE give better upload speed?

I have used wimax in 3 different markets now. Portland, Oregon, Las Vegas, and Philadelphia. In all three markets I would sometimes get as little as 3 mbs down but normally would get between 6 and 8. This is right in the area verizon says their lte will reside but again there is zero real world experience to prove this.
As far as roaming on lte goes it is not likely to happen. Both because all the carriers use different frequencies and because the carriers are going to want to protect their advantage in deploying 4g. From my experience wimax works great and lte has not yet been tested.
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I'm in NYC as well. The antennas are omnidirectional, 3 bars, stock, clearwire?, tethered laptop and speedtest app on phone, NY so pretty close, anywhere from 70ms to 150ms. The second you step inside any building signal drops at least 1 to 2 bars. Wimax is a gimmick to me and I don't think it'll succeed once more reliable technologies (possibly LTE) become implemented.
gTen said:
Was the antenna on the tower facing directly at you? how many bars did you have? what radio were you using? who provided the equipment for the tower in question? what were you using to speedtest? how far away was the server? what was the latency?
I am in NY, I get around 7mbp/sec on 2 bars, 4mb/sec on 1 bar...and as you can guess the there are a lot of interferences and a whole lot of people using 4g..so its as "real world" as it gets..
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[Q] Metro PCS already has LTE

How is it Metro pcs already has 4G LTE, and AT&T does, Whats the hold up?

Mrniceguy0921 said:
How is it Metro pcs already has 4G LTE, and AT&T does, Whats the hold up?
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it's a completely different network to set up and unlike metro pcs, att has a whole nationwide network to think about rather than just a few metropolitan areas.

Metro uses Verizon towers IIRC.
So it's possible they have a lease deal for LTE usage.
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MetroPCS LTE is horrible! I tried it and got the ATT Atrix at the same time. A speedtest showed only getting 1.5MB over Metro LTE and im getting over 2MB on ATT HSPDA+ without backhaul....
Mark

rjohnstone said:
Metro uses Verizon towers IIRC.
So it's possible they have a lease deal for LTE usage.
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Their LTE is actually VZW independent. They have had LTE before Verizon actually released LTE to anyone.

Do you have Wimax in your area?

I just wanted to know how many epic users actually have reliable wimax coverage where they live and work. I personally I am tired of the silence sprint has left us with in regards to expansion of Wimax or LTE coverage and rollout of the vision network. I'm tired of getting ATT EDGE speeds on EV-DO rev A and just barely being outside of Wimax coverage with no hope of an official rollout in sight.
So, is everyone mad and experiencing problems or am I the exception to the rule? I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma btw.
Edit: Poll added
Edit 2: No Wimax, Fast EV-DO added! Thanks Impaler!

No.
#simpleanswers

Recently moved from frederick md too westminster md. No 4g here but I had it in frederick.

4g here in lake Mary, FL
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4G in Daytona Beach and Holly Hill Florida.
Do you BONSAI?

plenty of 4g here in Atlanta.

Very spotted 4G coverage, sometimes 3G is as fast as 4G if not faster.
I'm in RI

Had it in Vegas since day one I've had this phone.outskirts of town coverage is spotty.
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I have very spotty 4g in San Diego but it there lol
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I first noticed 4G coverage on the east side of Madison, WI Friday May 6. My son and I have been using Sensorly to start mapping it. Looks like at least one other person. Anyway, I can see it spreading but its iffy, generally.
BTW, Madison is not on any official Sprint launch list as far as I can tell.

I live in Kentucky. We don't have 4g anywhere in the state. I did manage to pick up a 4g signal while standing outdoors in Covington, right across the river from Cincinnati, Ohio. That's probably as close as it will ever get before Clearwire goes bankrupt.

No Wimax at all, However have fast and stong ev/1x data.
You should add this to the poll...

davidrules7778 said:
No Wimax at all, However have fast and stong ev/1x data.
You should add this to the poll...
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this 10char

i live in the Quad Cities(iowa/illinois). we dont have sprint 4g, but we do have clear. i know its the same thing. but since its wimax and not lte i can get on it and use it anyways. we only have one tower and you have to be within ten miles for consistent outdoor coverage but when you do get signal it works pretty well and noticeably quicker than 3g.

davidrules7778 said:
No Wimax at all, However have fast and stong ev/1x data.
You should add this to the poll...
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I will try to PM a mod. I forgot that one.
Edit: Option Added! Thanks Impaler!

At my house, Weak Wimax, Fast/Decent EV-DO.
Everywhere Outside my neighborhood, Fast/Reliable Wimax, Fast/Decent EV-DO.
I'm in Jacksonville FL btw, Sprint's AMAZING here. So far I've only found 1 dead area (still doesn't drop calls, but will drop any internet connections such as Pandora. It lasts about 20 seconds in the car.

No 4g in Phoenix /mad
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No 4g out 3g in columbus, ms. our anywhere I can remember going in ms. I just use a verizon prl.
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p3dr0maz said:
No 4g in Phoenix /mad
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I read somewhere that LTE had the fastest 4G speeds in Phoenix, I instantly assumed WiMaX was there. :'(
(I'm from Phoenix.)

I have another question, has service changed drastically for the better for anyone recently? (wimax added or much faster evdo)

Anyway for the epic to roam on verizon 4 g?

Just curious if this can be done?
They recently put up a verizon 4g on in my city and was wondering if i can force the epic to roam into verizon 4g, kinda like the roamcontrol app.

markstibbyspot said:
Just curious if this can be done?
They recently put up a verizon 4g on in my city and was wondering if i can force the epic to roam into verizon 4g, kinda like the roamcontrol app.
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No. Totally different technologies.

impossible because Sprint 4g currently runs off a WiMax network which works pretty much as a country wide wifi network. Verizon's runs off of a LTE 4g network, which I THINK (not sure) runs off the same type of networking as 3g...could be wrong about LTE though

You are... but no its not possible OP
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