Related
sorry , i'm really apologize
what is it ?
yeah, I have seen it the whole day now, but I will not touch it until I now what it is and what it does
Scary stuff :wink:
It's Novosec Smartfilter 1.1, cracked, and it should not be here. Mods, could you take this off?
For anybody interested in testing this software and is unsure of the operator code for their service provider, which is needed to make this work, go to this link where you will find a list of provider codes.
http://www.techbitz.co.uk/mobile/secrets/servicecodes.htm
This is an interesting piece of software, it comes with little information but once it is working it does what it says. I tested it by putting my home number on block, tried ringing my xda from my (blocked) home number and got the response, "it has not been possible to connect your call, please try later", if my answer service was enabled it would have switched over to that. You can have lots of different profiles with diferent numbers blocked or allowed, you can also block unknown numbers, witheld numbers etc.
Its a great post and a great software i suggest keeping it plz. We need such posts...
thanks
Compleet list of Operator codes
If you try it on my phone it activates the the ignor button is that correct?
Looking for the compleet list look here:
http://www.funsms.net/service_provider_code_list.htm
:wink:
Greatings and keep up the good work 8)
Hey all...
this program looks like just wut I need (some old lady won't stop calling me)
Im in the US...and all i seen on the Service Provider List were PCS....I have Tmobile...is there a way for me to utilize this prog?
ThanX
Hi all,
It's nice s/w ... However there are 2 missing features:
1. How can you add a number not in your contact list ?
2. There is no context menu either in contact list or calls history like"Add to Smart Filter" .... CallerFirewall has this one.
one minor comment ... Magic Button actually close the application instead of only keep it in the back ground. I think the author should have developed it to use system thread instead of normal application thread.
The display of a blocked call as a missed call is great idea ... I thought I won't be informed in any way but found it useful ... at least to apologize later when I 'm reachable
Yeah does anyone have it working on TMobile US?
Actually got mine to work....just put in 1 in country code and left provider blank.
COPYRIGHT INFRIGEMENT
COPYRIGHT INFRIGEMENT
Dear webmasters of xda-developers.com,
:arrow: REMOVE THE FILE ABOVE IMMEDIATELY.
You haven't responded to any of our emails. This is your last chance. In case this file is not removed within the next 24 hours we have to report an offence to the police in order to close your site.
If you are going to provide any of our software (which is under copyright) in future we will proceed this necessary step without any further notice.
It is not our problem, that your users can upload anything. You have to ensure that your site will not infringe our copyrights.
In addition to this we will proceed against the user who uploaded this file.
Maik Stohn
NOVOSEC
[email protected]
Re: COPYRIGHT INFRIGEMENT
stohn said:
COPYRIGHT INFRIGEMENT
Dear webmasters of xda-developers.com,
:arrow: REMOVE THE FILE ABOVE IMMEDIATELY.
You haven't responded to any of our emails. This is your last chance. In case this file is not removed within the next 24 hours we have to report an offence to the police in order to close your site.
If you are going to provide any of our software (which is under copyright) in future we will proceed this necessary step without any further notice.
It is not our problem, that your users can upload anything. You have to ensure that your site will not infringe our copyrights.
In addition to this we will proceed against the user who uploaded this file.
Maik Stohn
NOVOSEC
[email protected]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL!
Here is free speech forum!
If you don't like the forum, please go away! Or filing legal action again the India guy who posted the software!
Who cares your copyright!
Copyright means everybody has Right to Copy!
Hello,
FREE SPEECH, hopefully not a WAREZ SITE!
Maik Stohn
NOVOSEC
Maik - A PR genius
Message e-mailed to the brainiac:
Maik,
You aren't the brightest, obviously. Somebody posted your software to a site that has very targeted very significant traffic... of all people that carry an expensive device and are interested in software enhancements, incidentally the market you are trying to pursue.
Oh so let's see what your PR genuis does... (PR = public relations, an entirely foreign concept to you, no doubt):
So you go on there and post threatening messages. Instead of turning the challenge into an opportunity (ie. implementing better copy protection, releasing a new version, getting user feedback, etc) your minimal amount of cranial content came up with just posting threats. I had looked at your site and entertained the possibility of trying out your product but after reading that abnoxious post I decided otherwise.
I advocate against funding beligerent dimwits who go put threats on a community board that's supported by a bunch of guys at no cost and in their spare time. Again, in case the general tone of my message didn't convey my personal sentiments... I think you are a complete moron.
Good Day.
you tell him wayandrs :twisted:
The more we speak about it, the more it will be downloaded, any proper feedback on this software - any bugs :lol:
I'm very sorry about it, but now I'm realy sure.
The main intention of this board is to tell developers to kick the XDA/MDA platform.
I wonder what NAH6.com will say about hosting
XDA-(WAREZ)-DEVELOPERS.COM
Maik
to wayandrs:
You are right. I'm not the brightest. I should be glad that my software is here for free. It doesn't matter if I can't pay my bills. But I have to be glad that you take my work and use it. How can I use this scheme to build a house? Please teach me.
Stohn, believe it or not, it can be a good idea to have a program out that has no restrictions so that a potential user can fully evaluate it and discover its usefulness, if it is found to be useful I know many people that will then buy the full retail version because they can be sure that the software fits the purpose. Crippled and time limited software prevents this evaluation process. I know that some people will never pay for something they can get for free, that is a fact of life but there are also many that will pay because they are thankful that their tasks are made easier by the programmer/author of the software.
cruisin-thru said:
Stohn, believe it or not, it can be a good idea to have a program out that has no restrictions so that a potential user can fully evaluate it and discover its usefulness, if it is found to be useful I know many people that will then buy the full retail version because they can be sure that the software fits the purpose. Crippled and time limited software prevents this evaluation process. I know that some people will never pay for something they can get for free, that is a fact of life but there are also many that will pay because they are thankful that their tasks are made easier by the programmer/author of the software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stohn,
I agree with, and respect your right to protect your intellectual property. My own livelihood depends upon it, as I develop web-based applications which are in use by thousands of people. However, the way you have publically handled this scenario is, IMHO, not the best way to have done it. Similar incidences that have occured in the past have taught me that privately contacting the parties concerned meets with positive results.
just take a look at PocketZenPhone to see what we mean by free software http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=6162 - this is free and being developed/ improved daily (even hourly) by the developer (Zendrui) from the feedback the users are providing to him; of which, I am one (very happy one, as well)... I have little doubt that Zendrui will come to a point where he will provide features in a Pro version that we would gladly pay money for.
Perhaps providing a lite version would be a way of collecting useful feedback about your product, which can then be built into a Pro version. This has been done for years, and has likely been done so because it works; for the users and developer alike.
To use a collective term such as Warez, or even hint that we all are interested in this line of illegal activity is very dangerous for you, and opens you up to legal proceedings for slander. Sure, we are hackers, but not crackers, warez junkies or any other descriptive for which your comment was intended.
We meet here because we like the technology, we like to see how it works, what makes it tick, and to see how much further we can utilise the technology that we hold in our hands.
Hello!
I´m interrested in Android as well as in the tm G1.
Now the G1 is announced here in Germany for the second of february.
My problem at the moment is, that I have read and heard, that google is collecting data (everything)! So if you read the "terms and conditions", what do you think about that or don´t you care? I mean they have the rights over everything you load/send/post/get....and more!
How do you handle that fact personally for you?
Greetings!
Carter
That's just the nature of the emphasis on cloud computing. Personally my stance is simply to not conduct any business on my G1 that I would mind Google knowing/datamining. Regardless of what companies claim in their privacy policies, the very best way to 100% guarantee your data will be misused is simply to not willingly give it out.
Edit: also keep in mind that the (potentially) datamining portions of Android generally revolve around those apps and services which are closed-source apps provided by Google that are not a part of the Android Open Source Project. These include for example the Market, GMail, GTalk, and so forth.
ok, I get your point, but what is the G1 without Gmail/Calendar etc.
And thats all google.
Because of the poor response on my question I think that the majority doesn´t care about google´s data collecting hype.
In my eyes their acting is scary....imagine the details they know about you and many many other people....
just my opinion...
Greetz!
They don't collect any personal information. Not only that but they don't have people looking at these records. A computer does all the work, and is only used to find keywords.
Look at this site's search (the one on xda not google) it works by taking every word and putting it in a database and when you search the word it shows the corresponding posts. so post1 has wordA and post2 has wordA and wordB, and when you search for wordB you only get post2. The same concept is in place for google... except it goes one step further. The spider takes out words that are not needed. Well they have been using this for your GMail for sometime as well. It is why they have excellent spam control and it is why google is so awesome. They use the same process to check emails when you click links. Basically they are just trying to find out who uses what sites for what reasons. If they figure out all this they can better help you and the company you were visiting.
Chances are if you are on a site that is doing something illegal Google already knows it exisists.
someone can always watch if they want, on a g1 or PC, or anything connected. Just don't do anything dumb.
i think its obscene and absurd how gung hoe they are with it. If you want access to the playstore gawdam they better have every member of your family and every person you've ever met profiled as well as around the clock location tracking with a serial # and every keystroke on your device. And dont you dare make any attempts to disable any of their spyware or you can kiss YouTube apps and the play store goodbye. Its pathetic what they've done to Android and its users. And the reason it pisses me of the most is because I don't even really use free apps. They're all either paid for or open.
so after posting an excerpt of my letter to Dan Morrill, the author of the absolutely idiotic statement regarding what they're doing, i received several PMs asking me to post the whole thing. It's so long it wont fit in a single post, so read it all. if you dont want to read a wall of text, stop here and go to a new thread.
Mr. Morrill,
First, I would like to bid you a good day, as I'm sure this letter is going to effect it. Yes, that is a bold statement to make at the onset, but writings such as these have a way of eating their way into your psyche and leaving a lasting impression that could very well sour your appetite at lunch time.
Perhaps I should introduce myself. My name is XXXXXXXXXXXXX, and I am an amateur developer on the Android platform. I am also a user of many of the custom Android builds that have come out since the release of the source development kit, including the build made by Steve "Cyanogen" Kondik. Ah, yes, now you see what this letter is going to be about.
So lets start with the basics. Google is a multi-billion dollar corporation that released a supposedly open-source platform onto the mobile device market. Now, I say mobile device as opposed to mobile phone, simply because there are products being released, such as the Zii EGG, which do not support telecommuniations, yet are still running on the Android platform. Now, in any reasonable programmers mind, the reason for making a platform open source, regardless of what the Public Relations people spin it as, is to alleviate some of the burden on the actual in-house development teams. The source code created by thousands of bright minds is doubtless going to yield a much stonger end result than that of a small development squad. Its simple mathematics. Well, that point alongside the fact that the original linux developers made no secret of their intentions by open-sourcing their operating system, which paved the way for Android many many years later.
In addition to that, all of the applications included in the "stock", or unmodified and officially released Android, builds are free. Any user with internet access can use any of these functions through the internet, with the blessings of your employer, free of charge. Yet, somehow, this has caused a sort of hiccup between your supposed idea of free development and that of the general public. Now, before you warp your mind into "this guy doesnt know what he's talking about" mode, think about the principles that your company was founded upon. You wanted to beat out the corporate giants and look out for the little guy. Oh yes, I've done my homework on Google over the years. The benevolent company trying to provide free services for the masses that the "evil-empire" corporations would deny free access to. Ironically enough, this letter is being written to you on Google Docs, another of your free services. Quite troublesome, it would seem.
And now, lest I digress further, I'll shift to the meat of the topic. In your statement regarding the cease and desist letter to Mr. Kondik, you claim that the sales of your free software to be used on mobile platforms being provided to the end user by custom developers for free would hurt the bottom line. Perhaps you should re-examine your own words. Free software being given to the masses by developers whom you claim to encourage is huring your profit share because you cannot sell the use of it to large corporations. Pardon me if I fail to understand the rationale behind such a contradictory and obviously ridiculous statement. But just so that you can understand my position on the matter, lets look at a related position. Google produces an internet browser, Chrome. Mozilla, a competing franchise, produces Firefox, their own browser. Developers for firefox have created applications which borrow on Google's proprietary code to access the functionality of the various features and programs. Are these developers charged for being able to include such features? No. Are these developers caused to halt their activities through threats of legal action for providing end users access to the capabilities that Google readily offers for free? No. So where is the disparity between allowing a competitor to do such things and tying the hands of developers of YOUR open source platform from doing the same?
Before I go further, let me give you a little background on myself to illuminate things. I used to work for XXXXXXXXXXXXXX. I worked in one of their call centers with well over a thousand people, almost a quarter of whom purchased the G1. More than 50% of those users had custom builds running on their phones. How would I know this? I personally installed it on over 300 and gave instructions to many more who wanted to do it themselves. This was one call center. But your apparent attitude on the situation makes it apparent that providing these people with custom software that includes the Google-based programs that were ORIGINALLY ON THE DEVICE AT PURCHASE, is illegal. I'm sorry sir, but that notion is preposterous. All of the Android-based mobile platforms on the market today include the software that caused you to send Mr. Kondik a cease and desist letter. This means that every single end user who purchased one of the devices paid that bottom line you spoke of. Any other rationale is impossible. Non-supporting devices will not run Android, and as such, the only way to use the device is to have purchased one. This brings us to the logical conclusion that those applications, such as GMail and Google Talk are PAID FOR. The situation is equitable to this situation: Joe purchases a computer from a major distributor, say Dell. Dell gives Joe a complimentary piece of free software (available on the Dell website) which updates his drivers on the Dell website, included with his purchase. Joe decides he doesnt particularly like the operating system on the computer, and installs an operating system more to his liking, that also happens to include the Dell software. But lo-and-behold, that free software shouldnt be free to Joe, even though he paid Dell's bottom line through his original computer purchase.
Your flaw is that you are obviously trying to "spin" the situation. Unfortunately, its a thin disguise and everyone can see through it, clear as crystal. These people that I speak of? Developers. The developers whom you claim to encourage. This brings me to my next point. Developers are essentially software hackers. They take the code from a program, rip it apart, improve on it, and then put it back out on the market for other developers to toy with. Perhaps, in your travels as a computer programmer, you have come across a copy of the much fabled "hacker's manifesto". Free access to data. That is what it was about at its core philosophy. You claimed to provide developers with that free access through Android, and then punish the people whom you claim to support.
Have you ever seen "The Devil's Advocate", Mr. Morrill? Al Pacino has an excellent line in which he is describing the way God imbued man with instinct, saying "Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow." Is this not what you've done here? You've given us, the developers, what you claim to be an open-source platform, written for mobile platforms that contain previously installed versions of the software, and also containing applications that each and every possible user would have purchased through buying the device on which they run. Then you tell us that it is illegal for us to modify any portion of that software which you see fit at any given point in time. Perhaps you should have just kept it closed-source, so that anything innovative wouldnt stir controvversy, as it would have truly been illegal. You give us a gift and then set the rules in opposition as it suits you.
Now, if I havent struck a nerve yet, perhaps I will in my own belief on the subject. You FEAR us. The android development team put out an initial platform. The developers, using the source code given to us, have turned out platforms on several different versions that utilize more functionality with greater performance, more flexibility and a wider range of features than ANYTHING that the official releases have even come close to. Mr. Kondik's releases are a prime example of this. He has created a version of the platform which utilizes every aspect of the platform infinitely better than the official releases. He has also included functionality from FUTURE releases, constantly and consistently improving on such, in a timeframe that should have your development team in absolute hysterics. That, sir, is what I believe this is about. Fear and shame. Never did you imagine that the Android development community would be able to surpass the Godly heights of the original development team, but we have and continually do so. It's his popularity that earned him the letter. He posed the biggest threat to your team by sharing a creative vision with anyone willing to install it that your team couldn't possibly compete with. But what about all of the other major developers? As of right now, I can count over a hundred different custom builds that include much of the same functionality and applications that Mr. Kondik's software includes. Are you going to attempt to stop them too?
(continued in post #2)
I assume you have been on the internet before. I assume you know that it spans the globe and has absolutely no limits or boundaries. It is freedom at its peak. Anyone, anywhere can express anything they want. The beautiful thing is that it enables people to communicate, and thereby collaborate in real-time. An internet community with thirty thousand people doesnt have to find a meeting room with enough chairs. This is the problem you're facing. You have attempted to cut the head off of a snake that you created. Unfortunately, on the internet, when you cut off the head of a snake, the body doesnt die. A thousand more heads spawn in its place, angrier, defiant and more intent on their purpose. Perhaps that should be a wake up call.
Mr. Morrill, I hope that in reading this letter, you have come to realize the gravity of your position. You have not only hurt yourselves, but angered an entire community, consisting of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people. These are the people who write the applications that are sold on the Android Market. These are the people who have the time to spare to ensure that you still have a job by creating works of digital art, using the code that you claim to be "open source". Are you so obtuse as to believe that these people are going to slip silently into the night when their creativity is stifled by the whims of a multibillion dollar corporation? I think not, sir.
You simply cannot give freedom to the masses and then attempt to bind their hands, as you are attempting to do in this case. This has ended in cataclysmic failure for every culture and every authority that has attempted to do so in history. We live in a global society of ingenuity. People WILL find a way. The creative power of the developers of the android community will inevitably break you. History has shown ample evidence that a creative mind cannot be beaten down. No army of lawyers, no amount of cease and desist letters will stop the tide of creativity.
It's like a bear. The choice you had was to embrace this creativity and nurture it or to poke at it with a stick. Mr. Morrill, are you aware of the consequences of poking a bear with a stick? Some thought on that will bring you to an obvious, and quite unpleasant, conclusion.
Had you simply left well enough alone, the damage might have been minimal, but at this point you could be looking at a 2009 reenactment of the Boston Tea Party, with the Android platform playing the part of the British tea. The damage to your "bottom line" was so infinitesimally small as to equate to a mouse burping on a rush hour subway car in New York City. As stated previously, it is simply my belief that your development team was offended by the fact that amateur developers would put them to shame. Does Android come with a complimentary set of swim trunks? Perhaps you might invest. I hear Boston Harbor gets cold in the winter.
In closing, perhaps you should let the immortal words of Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto echo through your mind as you contemplate the statements made in this letter:
"I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve".
Mr. Morrill, the giant is awake now, and his resolve is beyond your wildest dreams. I truly hope you are prepared to reap the consequences of what you have put in motion.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
amazing. your right they do fear us and they have woken a sleeping giant. what i dont get is the fact that these roms are making this phone better. as you said you gave over 300 people instructions how to do this at the call center. if anything these devs are helping google make sales, and google doesnt even have to make a better product. they make they same thing tht has been out since 0ct.22.2008 and the devs make it better. you sir are a god among men.
Wow, great letter, really looking forward to hearing the response to this - If you'd post it that is ;-)
You misspelt "purchased" in the eighth paragraph btw
yeah, this was the pre-spell-checked rough draft. the copy that i sent him was clean as a whistle.
Interesting letter. Not to mock you or anything, but it reminds me a lot of Keith Olbermann.
I am a RSA for TMO, and one of the major selling points was that Android was (is?) Open Source. That was a big deal to many customers.
I don't think the folks over a Google realize how tech savvy even the dumbest tech user is.
Had probably a 60 year old man come in the other day and he had put Hero on his G1 by himself.
(No offense to any oldsters.)
The world is changing, and Google just jumped in front of that subway train you mentioned.
this was truly a great letter. i would love to see the response (if you even get one) to this. i feel inspired to go do something now...
Android users, this is your call to arms.
Before you go and write long winded threatening letters to someone, maybe you should look into what you are writing about first. The person you are writing the letter to is an employee of a company that tells him what to do. I doubt after all of the help he has given developers and "hackers" in the Android irc channel, that he was just planning on striking everything down. My guess, and that of many others who know of him (havent chatted a lot, but he is social with us) would be that he was told to write that post. I dont want cyanogen roms to go away either, but I think you are going at it the wrong way. Hate the company, not the developers.
And after re-reading the post, you mention installing this on devices that already have it. The exact same arguement I used but you must also realize that an HTC hero does not get these Google Apps. It is an HTC branded phone and instead gets HTC branded apps. The "With Google" phones are the only ones that come with these apps pre-installed. Even then, apparently (I just found this out today) that your license to these apps does not allow you to copy them OFF of the device they came on. So that cut down another idea we had: copy the apps from the rom to SD, flash image, copy apps back.
Once again, I do not disagree with you or your anger, I just disagree with who you are directing it at.
irrelevant. "i was just doing what i was told" is never an excuse. it doesnt work in the justice system, and it doesnt work here. i could elaborate more, but i really dont want to invoke Godwin's Law this early in the conversation. he opened his mouth. he made himself the target. everyone is a nice and helpful person until they show their true colors.
perhaps its just me, but i'm one of those people that actually hold to my ideals. if i'm fighting for something and my boss tells me to do otherwise, i'm going to tell him to pack sand. if I get fired, i can always find a new job, but I can do so with my integrity intact. he had a choice. everyone always has a choice.
also, to your second post, the HTC branded phones arent the subject of controversy. the apps are "free". i quote free because it isnt true in this case. how is distributing the official Gmail app for free any different than accessing the same capabilities through another means? if I were to delete the official GMail app off of my phone entirely and instead access my gmail account through a browser, wouldnt that have the same effect on Google's "bottom line"? I'm still using the same service and not paying for it. Similarly, with the hero, if you have access to GMail through any email application or browser, are you not violating the same concept? You're still using the core of google's intellectual property for free. Their only real solution is to make the Google apps paid applications that everyone has access to if they want to shell out the cash, or simply drop the whole thing.
Are they going to stop people from creating custom GMail apps too? Cause if so, they've got a big fish to fry, cause they'd have to go after everyone who wrote a gmail plugin for firefox as well. any way you look at it, they're not going to stop the development community from going on, its simply too big.
If Dell gives you a "free" copy of vista on your laptop, and then you buy a compaq with linux installed on it. Does that mean you have the right to install your "free" vista on the compaq also? It was free! How about you write a new windows shell and you bundle your free windows vista with it. And you also throw in your free copy of Office that came with it.
I understand their point and I realize these examples are not EXACT enough to matter, but the point does. They give you the apps for A SPECIFIC device and they give them to you with rules. Rules that we do not like.
I feel that they instead of C&D'ing him, should have had a little sit down with him. Said "hey, we realize you are doing a lot of good for us by promoting our product and giving those who want more what they ask for when we cannot, but we have some rules for you. A, you must make every attempt you can to make sure the roms you distribute go on authorized "With Google" devices. B, not release stuff you do not have permission to release." This would allow google to control what he releases enough to fit within the rules (keeps carriers from saying "hey, he can release your apps without paying, why cant we?"). They would also benefit from the many thousands of users who flock to these custom roms but realize they are unusable in their bare forms.
And so you do not have to, I will be the first to pull the term nazi out of my hat in this one
I agree completely. As i said in the letter, they could have nurtured creativity (i.e. having a sit down with him and saying "hey look, we know that this is going to non-google devices and we cant have that, so make an attempt to not let it happen") or poke it with a stick. They chose the stick, and now they get to reap the backlash.
I also understand your initial examples, and while they do hold true for the circumstance, windows isnt lauded as being an open-source platform. In addition, i havent heard of microsoft going after people who create custom shells that utilize windows information, so long as they put a disclaimer on it saying that you're only allowed to use them if you're running an authorized copy of the OS. The same should have been done here, as you suggested.
Also, microsoft has specific anti-piracy safeguards in place to keep you from installing that software on your compaq that didnt come with it. Can you get around it? sure. Piracy happens, but its also illegal. But google has no such safeguards on the apps. Is it because they lacked the foresight to see this coming? Absolutely. If they didnt want the apps installed on non-branded/non-approved devices, then perhaps they should have made it impossible to do so. Sure, people would eventually find a way around it, but then they'd have a legitimate piracy gripe. As it is now, they dont. You dont hand a kid a cookie, let him eat half and then snatch it away because he shared the chocolate chips. You keep him away from the cookies from the get-go.
It really is a sad state of affiars. If something is going to be free, such as GMail, then Google shouldnt care how the users access it. How big of a chunk of their profits do you think its really going to hurt if people with the hero get a free copy of the gmail app? I bet their legal team made for handling this "issue" than it would cost them in ten years. If the apps in question were paid apps, then I would completely understand. People shouldnt get something free that they should have to pay for, which is one of the reasons that XDA has such a strict "warez" policy. But thats not the case.
The simplest solution would have been to realize that "oops, we did tell them it was open source, maybe we should clarify a bit and see if we can come to a reasonable understanding". But alas...
Also, to your point that the apps came with a specific device, what about those that purchased a device with those apps? We have a right to be using them as we see fit. When I bought my phone, I never signed anything that said that I couldnt theme the application if I wanted to. Google never made me sign a contract. And they couldnt, it would be ridiculous. What about people that purchased them on ebay or craigslist without a contract? They still bought the device and are the owner, and they certainly didnt have to agree not to modify any content. Is google going to go after every developer and every themer now too? Are they going to go after every end user who modified their content? It's just as illegal as making a rom that allows it to happen in the eyes of the law. Apple is attempting to do the same sort of crap with people jailbreaking the iphone. They're saying that even though you bought it, apple technically still owns it, so anything you do to it is illegal. Theres a huge legal debate going on over it right now and apple looks like theyre probably going to lose.
The safeguard they have in place is lack of root access. If you have root access yo have exploited a bug and are acting out of the designed use of the phone. You would not be able to backup or otherwise access these app files. Also, you would not be able to flash the new rom without root, which you gained by exploiting a bug.
Absolutely. But at the same time, the whole "exploiting a bug" argument is similarly null. If the bug never existed, two things would be true:
1. There would be no custom roms for end users, which Mr. Morrill says he supports and looks forward to seeing more of. This would be true since the idea of creating custom software would be idiotic as nobody would be able to install it. The only people utilizing the open-source framework would be major development houses, such as what creative is doing with the plazma stem-cell android that they're putting on the EGG. Application development has nothing to do with open source. The iPhone is not open source, but you can still develop apps for it.
2. The claim that they have about the free distribution of their intellectual property would hold merit, as it would be legitimate software piracy, instead of an unintended side effect of faulty design.
The first point is what makes this a farce. We, as developers, found a way to get custom software onto our devices, something which we were never intended to do. One of two things should have happened at that point: they should have let us continue to do it, which they did (closing the loophole could have been done, they could have found a way to prevent downgrading, seeing as there are no other OS options for the device) or they could have stopped it there and said that exploiting the bug is illegal. Its been a year since the device came out. This has been going on for a YEAR. You mean to tell me that this is an issue NOW and wasnt a year ago when it first started? Its only an issue because they're not the only game in town anymore. Ridiculous. Someone got their feathers ruffled and wanted to take out the little guy.
Ok, I am not going to keep replying to your endless wandering rebuttals. I feel you are wrong in who you are aiming your hate mail at and that is the end of the story.
Thats fine, and I do apologize for being excessively adamant about it. But I still feel I'm right. You only paint a target on yourself if you're prepared for people to shoot at you. Thats all I can say about it.
Darkrift said:
If Dell gives you a "free" copy of vista on your laptop, and then you buy a compaq with linux installed on it. Does that mean you have the right to install your "free" vista on the compaq also? It was free! How about you write a new windows shell and you bundle your free windows vista with it. And you also throw in your free copy of Office that came with it.
I understand their point and I realize these examples are not EXACT enough to matter, but the point does. They give you the apps for A SPECIFIC device and they give them to you with rules. Rules that we do not like.
I feel that they instead of C&D'ing him, should have had a little sit down with him. Said "hey, we realize you are doing a lot of good for us by promoting our product and giving those who want more what they ask for when we cannot, but we have some rules for you. A, you must make every attempt you can to make sure the roms you distribute go on authorized "With Google" devices. B, not release stuff you do not have permission to release." This would allow google to control what he releases enough to fit within the rules (keeps carriers from saying "hey, he can release your apps without paying, why cant we?"). They would also benefit from the many thousands of users who flock to these custom roms but realize they are unusable in their bare forms.
And so you do not have to, I will be the first to pull the term nazi out of my hat in this one
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About your dell giving you a "free" copy of vista. As long as that CD key is only used on one computer, you can use that CD key on ANY computer. Read their TOS. Your are wrong about a lot, but right about some. Changing the integrity of the windows shell is illegal, because that is microsoft property and NOT open source, but anytime you purchase an OS, or computer, you OWN that cd key of the software, all apps that come included as well. Could you try another example?
nice letter.
not so sure about the whole HTC (not "with google") phone thing- my magic is a HTC magic (32A) and it came will every single google app preinstalled on it.... not sure about hero though...
MontAlbert said:
nice letter.
not so sure about the whole HTC (not "with google") phone thing- my magic is a HTC magic (32A) and it came will every single google app preinstalled on it.... not sure about hero though...
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Hero did too.
Regards,
Dave
Read this link. Read it carefully. It's not just about Google being able to run whatever code they like on your devices, it's about Google DOING it, remotely, without any user intervention/confirmation.
What's next ? Let me throw some wild and far fetched guesses...
* Applanet like apps being killed off on the devices to fight piracy...
* Anything not from the market being wiped out from time to time, for the same reason...
* Users are hunted down and being prosecuted for piracy based on their devices content...
* The system is rigged/updated to block inappropriate content, such as pedophile sites...
* Users are being prosecuted for possessing and/or visiting inappropriate content/providers...
* The "inappropriate" extends to warez sites and regular porn sites, "bad" users are still prosecuted...
* The "inappropriate" extend to the "wrong" political sites, "bad" users are still prosecuted...
* .......
I bet you get the idea. And yea, i know i am taking it too far, but still
PS: Let me add something... the builds we are running on our HD2 are often partially illegal (gaps) etc... hint hint
maybe a little paranoid, ok, well maybe a lot
InfX said:
* The system is rigged/updated to block inappropriate content, such as pedophile sites...
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not sure why you mentioned this, anyone in their right mind would welcome this particular point.
kam333 said:
maybe a little paranoid, ok, well maybe a lot
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A lot, exaggerated to the max, of course. But that doesn't turn what Google does right.
kam333 said:
not sure why you mentioned this, anyone in their right mind would welcome this particular point.
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Thats EXACTLY why i mentioned it.
InfX said:
A lot, exaggerated to the max, of course. But that doesn't turn what Google does right.
Thats EXACTLY why i mentioned it.
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personally, i think google already knows tooooo much about its users, but in the case of malware, google is definitely the lesser of the 2 evils
let me ask you this, would you rather the big G have some remote access to your device or hackers collecting your personal info. Its the connected world, there's no turning back!!!
only real solution for anyone worried about companies interfering with their device... remove the sim card... for ever.
gnight & dont have nightmares
kam333 said:
would you rather the big G have some remote access to your device or hackers collecting your personal info.
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Guess what... neither of those
Also, there are terrorists under the bed,chemtrails in the sky, bromine in the water,drug dealers at the school gates, drunks on fones in cars, bondage freaks at work,human traffickers, religious zealots bent coppers paedo nursery workers racists fanatics and plain clothes Google operatives spreading FUD in forums cos its cheaper and gets more results than million pound lawsuits. Oh and bloody clowns.
Just a random outpouring,please continue.
Infx may sound paranoid, and no person of any kind of moral decency would condone anbody using pedophelia porn or any other form of content that causes any kind of harm to anyone. But those are matters for the authorities to deal with, not google. If the internet's morality policies were enforced by a huge internet based company, wouldn't that be considered some kind of a conflict of interests somehow? I mean imagine if Disney were the biggest internet company, we'd never see so much as a single cuss-word or titty. Big companies shouldn't be able to impose their own commercialized morals upon users, the internet will inevitably grow more and more watered down. I don't consider myself a paranoid person, but this type of issue stinks of denial of 1st amendment rights, one step closer to completely government/corporate filtered news-tainment, and corporate control of the masses.
Huggs, i totally agree, thata why i posted this, not because i am actualluly that paranoid (would i still use Internet if i was ?). What i tried to do in my post is to demonstrate a worst case scenario, how would google start with somethimg that should be totally accepted by everyone (fighting pedophily) yet slowly move to fighting things we no longer want it to fight (political opinions).
PS: This little remote control thing is the first step for a corporate giant to become a corporate government, a corporate dictator. And the onlu things corporations care for is money, not their users.
PPS: Just my personal opinion, feel free to disagree.
I like that idea: http://code.google.com/p/open-android-alliance/
InfX said:
Guess what... neither of those
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you really dont have a great deal of options
android, rim, ios & wp7 all have the ability to "spy" on their users to some degree,
mostly its just basic info such as: gps location, installed apps & how often they're used, crash logs, etc
some apps on ios have been caught out sending even more personal data. The point is, whilst i dont disagree fully with your concerns, i do see your post as somewhat hysterical.
There was no suggestion in the article you linked (or any other that ive read) that google is planning any of things you mentioned, so why mention them, as doing so only makes you a part of the current media trend of FUD as samsamuel put it.
this isnt about deny that all companies are in it 1st for the £$€, then customer welfare further down the list, im talking about being realistic. at this moment in time i cannot see google taking the path that you suggested, i also have far more immediate and real life things to focus on.
im all for a good conspiracy theory, fema detention camps springing up all over the usa (REX 84), the western so called "powers" planting the seeds of unrest in africa & the middle east so they can insert more puppets to secure natural resources (be it oil, gold, diamonds...), i could go on, but this isnt the place.
so let bring it back to google, you are in denial if you think cyber crime isnt going on, and with the rise of the smartphones we will see a rise of cyber crims trying to gain access. so i ask again who would you rather have access to your device?
if you still think or say neither, il know for sure you have lost the plot or you have taken my advice & binned your sim card cause thats the only other option you have.
@huggs, normally your post are quite informative & rational, that last post wasnt imho
no one was talking about censorship, the 1 point about google blocking access to child porn is something i would vote for, this has nothing to do with internet policing, you say thats down to the authorities, but they are not all seeing (no yet anyway) hence the use of informants by law enforcement the world wide, n thats all i would support. yes its possible that you give them a small mandate they will take it further but il worry about that IF the signs arise.
ppl who get there kick this way should have no rights, & should be actively hunted by whatever methods are available & taken out of the general population.
P.S.
Man i would love to have such a care free life that i need to start imagining then stressing about what may or may not happen, but i dont, my concerns are here & now, What you are talking about ISNT.
sorry for the lengthy post but your suggestions/posts are a subtle form of propaganda and a 1 line response really wouldn't cut it.
all the best
Kam
I say if we are doing something wrong and get caught that's our own fault.
How is it illegal? Isn't android open license ie freeware?
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
@kam333, i may be way less paranoid than you may think, mind the fact i've posted this as a VERY far-fetched and unrealistic speculation that only got slim to nil chance of actually happening, but it does demonstrate a possibility of undoubtedly good things becoming a base to slowly advance into nasty control-it-all direction. And, yea, your suggestion about binning the SIM card won't work. I still got WiFi
@dung8604, search the net about why Cyanogen mod no longer includes Google apps.
Well, I'm running a cooked rom without a Google account set up. So I can cross that off of the paranoid list.
I can't say I'm surprised by anything written in the article.
Did a quick search and from what i can tell, only Google apps are proprietary. Nothing about the OS itself though
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Seems Treve was right about CIq FBI law enforcement involve so here's the link check for your self
http://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2011/dec/12/fbi-carrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/
Edit:UPDATE the a video of Sen. Franken Questioning FBI Director Mueller about Carrier IQ in the Senate Judiciary Committee
http://youtu.be/WiQcYKmU-yg
This is how you know there is nothing wrong with it. After all, the government has our best interests in mind and would never do anything that could potentially harm is.
Tin foil hat firmly affixed for this one...
Very interesting. Thanks
OstrichSak said:
This is how you know there is nothing wrong with it. After all, the government has our best interests in mind and would never do anything that could potentially harm is.
Tin foil hat firmly affixed for this one...
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Well if u say so, then again they are great liars in my opinion. They spray the skies and say its nothing harmful, u have kids and some new "disease" is born but they said its not harmful.
another little article on this
http://venturebeat.com/2011/12/12/carrier-iq-fbi/
This stuff is just creepy. 2011 is 1984. No joke.
edit: this is the Carrie IQ rebuttal
http://venturebeat.com/2011/12/13/carrier-iq-fbi-rebuttal/
And everyone thought I was crazy when I said CIQ sounded like part of the alphabet soup :-/
Sent From My EViLizED-iCS-EVo4G
.Elite_The_King. said:
Well if u say so, then again they are great liars in my opinion. They spray the skies and say its nothing harmful, u have kids and some new "disease" is born but they said its not harmful.
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You must not have sensed the sarcasm. I was laying it on pretty thick.
[sarcasm] THIS JUST IN...CarrierIQ useless when used in conjunction with aluminum hats. Basement dwellers rejoice!![sarcasm/]
My opinion:
If Carrier IQ doesn't have anything to hide, I would like to see the following information released from them:
a) Disclose EXACTLY what data they collect and display formatting and reports associated with them.
b) Disclose EXACTLY what improvements has come from the data collected.
c) Disclose EXACTLY what security measures they have been using to protect privacy
d) Disclose EXACTLY how many people have access from their side, and to what department they get delivered AND what security measures are being used in the process of delivery to the end user (companies that work with them)
e) Disclose EXACTLY WHY they don't have an Opt-Out option if they are really not doing anything shady.
f) Based on the YouTube video that proved that they are collecting more than anonymous information, they should prove beyond reasonable doubt to the public that their software doesn't collect / send this data to them.
This will not keep everyone (or myself) at peace but its a start in the right direction....
Going along the lines of what megabiteg said ..
I would add that - So, if 160+ million devices with CarrierIQ were set to communicate or "call home" all at once there would be no Denial of Service on whomever is collecting whatever.. /sarcasm
After all, at first it was said that no data was being transmitted, then it changed to no personal data was being transmitted, then the "blame game and finger pointing" began.. next week it will be no financial data is being transmitted.
So which is it?
The other question I have is for AV (AntiVirus/Security) vendors who make a lot of claims against Android and call it unsecured.. Why didn't your product (paid or free) catch and remove CarrierIQ as it was discovered months ago and by most "modern" standards is a Rootkit?
megabiteg said:
My opinion:
If Carrier IQ doesn't have anything to hide, I would like to see the following information released from them:
a) Disclose EXACTLY what data they collect and display formatting and reports associated with them.
b) Disclose EXACTLY what improvements has come from the data collected.
c) Disclose EXACTLY what security measures they have been using to protect privacy
d) Disclose EXACTLY how many people have access from their side, and to what department they get delivered AND what security measures are being used in the process of delivery to the end user (companies that work with them)
e) Disclose EXACTLY WHY they don't have an Opt-Out option if they are really not doing anything shady.
f) Based on the YouTube video that proved that they are collecting more than anonymous information, they should prove beyond reasonable doubt to the public that their software doesn't collect / send this data to them.
This will not keep everyone (or myself) at peace but its a start in the right direction....
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+1 on that man
OstrichSak said:
You must not have sensed the sarcasm. I was laying it on pretty thick.
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Okay I thought that the bottom line was like ur signature got it now I'm sorry man my bad
Jus read this earlier check it out what does this sound like to you elite
The Technology is Helping Repressive Regimes Spy
TrevE Supporter!
I think ciq is really just a front for the government to spy on citizens. No wonder why their statements are just bull****. I don't doubt it.
Support TrevE !!
infamousteeboy said:
Jus read this earlier check it out what does this sound like to you elite
The Technology is Helping Repressive Regimes Spy
TrevE Supporter!
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Ha I know what you mean. It is what it is you always have to protect your self especially from gov that sells your info for cash. I believe there is an app that shreds your text messages, using a third party app instead of the manufactures one to protect urself against ex.(tigerwoods) ex mistress, company, and etc, that u dont want them to find out. Always be one step ahead of what your intentions are.
Remember laws are not laws but simply codes and statues that "everybody" agreed upon. You should always defend your self.
I'm just saying.
Isn't all this irrelevant for those using custom ROMS?
lightiv said:
Isn't all this irrelevant for those using custom ROMS?
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Well thanks to Treve it is now but it wasn't before and I think the sense kernels and maybe some AOSP too out there right now aren't up to date with what treve recently discover so yup check it get his app then check to see if ur kernel is update or is it still sending that info man.
Some useful updates and information regarding the situation:
http://franken.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1891
This was an important remark from the US Senator:
"I appreciate the responses I received, but I'm still very troubled by what's going on," said Sen. Franken. "People have a fundamental right to control their private information. After reading the companies' responses, I'm still concerned that this right is not being respected. The average user of any device equipped with Carrier IQ software has no way of knowing that this software is running, what information it is getting, and who it is giving it to-and that's a problem. It appears that Carrier IQ has been receiving the contents of a number of text messages-even though they had told the public that they did not. I'm also bothered by the software's ability to capture the contents of our online searches-even when users wish to encrypt them. So there are still many questions to be answered here and things that need to be fixed."
I hope the Senator keeps the strong track he's fighting, we should all support him!
megabiteg said:
Some useful updates and information regarding the situation:
http://franken.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1891
This was an important remark from the US Senator:
"I appreciate the responses I received, but I'm still very troubled by what's going on," said Sen. Franken. "People have a fundamental right to control their private information. After reading the companies' responses, I'm still concerned that this right is not being respected. The average user of any device equipped with Carrier IQ software has no way of knowing that this software is running, what information it is getting, and who it is giving it to-and that's a problem. It appears that Carrier IQ has been receiving the contents of a number of text messages-even though they had told the public that they did not. I'm also bothered by the software's ability to capture the contents of our online searches-even when users wish to encrypt them. So there are still many questions to be answered here and things that need to be fixed."
I hope the Senator keeps the strong track he's fighting, we should all support him!
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Here's the a video of Sen. Franken Questioning FBI Director Mueller about Carrier IQ in the Senate Judiciary Committee
http://youtu.be/WiQcYKmU-yg
I dont think there is anything wrong with carrier IQ. Like if your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to be worried about* but with that being said, it is not right for our phone companies, service providers, CIQ, or even the FBI, to leave us in the dark like this. There really is so much in question and so many assumptions, I just dont see why they cant fill us in, and at least let us know what is going on while we sort out this whole mess...