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"FAIL"-phone slower than other phones? Despite Snapdragon?

Looks like HTC has done it again and delivered a phone that should run crazy fast on paper BUT the actual performance is sub-par compared to other phones:
HTC Nexus One (FAILphone):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvzxZ8tOBcQ
HTC Magic and HTC Liquid Benchmark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O36LA6EhZg4

I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.

Do you work for Apple?

How does it do on PiBenchmark? That would provide more relevant results with its Snapdragon processor.

andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
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doesn't the liquid come with an underclocked snapdragon?

I have a Magic that is rooted and tweaked to all hell and have played with the nexus. There is no doubt that the Google phone out performs any other phone that HTC has released. Ive seen it first hand. Its very fast and can handle so many things going on at the same time it makes my tummy tickle.

You are an idiot. Get your panties out of a bunch because you are pissed at the price and that it has no AT&T 3G. Should we all be pissed that the Droid only works on Verizon? Should we all be pissed that the iPhone only has AT&T 3G? The Nexus One is designed to be on T-Mobile. Sure, it will technically work on any GSM provider, but that isn't what it was intended to do. Google must have some deal with T-Mobile since they offers the most android phones.
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU

staulkor said:
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU
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I thought neocore tested the graphics chip with 3d benchamarking?

andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
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It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?

What are you, 15 years old? Get off of mommy's computer and stop *****ing because you can't use the N1 on your network and get 3G.

Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.

Maedhros said:
Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.
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Actually ... it goes nicely with HTC's track record of under-performing hardware.

We have too many variables that makes comparing these results difficult. The HTC Magic and Liquid are running 1.6, while the Nexus is running 2.1. There are dramatically different levels of overhead on different Android system versions. There could be way more overhead on Android 2.1 than on 1.6. Additionally, you forgot to mention that the Nexus One is running at a resolution 2.5 times that of the HTC Magic.
Just because you're not going to buy the Nexus (because you recently purchased another handset and are trying to justify your purchase, or because it doesn't support your carrier's 3G frequencies, or otherwise) doesn't mean you are obliged to spam these forums with "OMG THIS PHONE IS FAIL"

the resolution used on the n1 is far higher than on the older devices remember

coolVariable said:
It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?
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The only FAIL here are your posts. You sound like a Droid owner, pissed that your phone is about to lose top dog status. Just crawl back into your parents basement, fire up your xbox, and shoot some 12 year olds. It will help you get over the fact that you are a huge FAIL.

lol @semantics now thats funny man

I have had this phone for three weeks now and one thing its not is SLOW. Its way faster than my 3GS and my Mytouch.

I got 27.4 FPS on my G1.
I'm pretty sure the N1 isn't slower then the G1. That would be stupid.

I don't give a damn, I'm buying this joint day 1!! LOL

my theory:
1. Neocore is designed to work with android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1
2. The Liquid A1 has the same processor (albeit underclocked) and the same screen resolution as the N1 so you would expect them to perform similarliy. They dont perfrom the same so you must look at the differences between the phones. The biggest to me is the fact that the Liquid A1 has Android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1, the sweet spot for Neocore.
3. The N1 had Android 2.1 and Open GL ES 2.0, specs that are not supported by Neocore. How can Neocore accurately test the N1 when it does not support its specifications? The slowness is not due to poor hardware, rather it is due to old software trying to run on the latest hardware.

[CLOSED/G2] Crazy boot-up time & Specs

Is this something we can bring back into the original desire?
Also, anyone concerned about the 800mhz vs the 1ghz on the desire?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpWPMens9C8
Holy crap. It's seriously like 3-4 seconds.

I think the 800MHz CPU is gonna be as effecyive as a 1GHz one tbh. Remember the Moto Milestone (or Droid, depending)? Had a 550MHz CPU and was still stupidly fast. It even holds it's own in the current world of mobiles
EDIT:
Yeah, much newer Qualcomm CPU

TheGrammarFreak said:
I think the 800MHz CPU is gonna be as effecyive as a 1GHz one tbh. Remember the Moto Milestone (or Droid, depending)? Had a 550MHz CPU and was still stupidly fast. It even holds it's own in the current world of mobiles
EDIT:
Yeah, much newer Qualcomm CPU
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Is it dual core as well? Or simply a 45nm die shrink of the existing architecture?

TheGrammarFreak said:
I think the 800MHz CPU is gonna be as effecyive as a 1GHz one tbh. Remember the Moto Milestone (or Droid, depending)? Had a 550MHz CPU and was still stupidly fast. It even holds it's own in the current world of mobiles
EDIT:
Yeah, much newer Qualcomm CPU
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Ye me also thinks it's all about drivers and implementation, offloading more onto GPU. When drivers suck, performance sucks too, jerky scrolling and so on... but the youtube videos suggest it's insanely smooth

Nope no dualcore.
I suspect it's just underclocked to favor batterylife.

kennethpenn said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpWPMens9C8
Holy crap. It's seriously like 3-4 seconds.
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this is a must have device

Apparently according to GSMarena i thinnk it waas the benchmarking scores are high even for a 1ghz and it being 800mhz , im guna wait for linpack scores before i buy i new phone (how sad does that sound ) ) its this desire HD or Milestone 2

Yea. It's probably because it's got a new GPU.
Or.. We think there is a new GPU.

This is really impressive. I don't know if it is full boot (or maybe something like hibernation on PC) but it still looks amazing!

Seen the Engadget post a while ago. Wish I had waited a while before upgrading ;(

Helloooooo to my next phone
Im really pleased we have a HTC with qwerty and android finally, was a bit dissapointed that I only saw it available as the G2 yesterday but looked today and theres the press announcement

Wow! Been thinking about ditching my blackberry bold for the torch, but I think I'll get this instead.
Bit of a WM fan but android looks good, still loads of apps/hacking etc.
Oh please god i hope Orange get this (or O2)
Upgrade due in October. Yay!

Qualcomm says 7X30 uses the same Scorpion core, so it's probably underclocked, meaning we could setcpu it back up to 1ghz.

Zaim2 said:
Qualcomm says 7X30 uses the same Scorpion core, so it's probably underclocked, meaning we could setcpu it back up to 1ghz.
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Well for me if it's fast enough no need to overclock it and there must be a reason to be underclocked so don't really mind..im really curious about the new display,don't really see the point to push a phone to it's limits just to see the numbers ) my nexus that i teribly love it just works fine and snapier than ever,i will change it in favor of keyboard but i'm still thinking of keeping it rather than sell it and buy the z...Good phone!
Edit:Anyone have any ideea the multitouch is it better?i realy want a better multitouch since new games are developed for android like "nova,sandstorm etc etc" wich are super cool games but the crappy multitouch on my nexus make them difficult to play.

looks frickin awesome. kind of makes me happy that i couldn't afford an unsubsidized Nexus One xD

It seems to take much longer to boot in another video.
(The Engadget size comparison video, where the Z is booting)

kennethpenn said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpWPMens9C8
Holy crap. It's seriously like 3-4 seconds.
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Can they remove battery and then put it back and do the test?

Someone said it boots so quick because it doesn't actually boot - it resumes from hibernation. So removing the battery will have no change I don't think. But a full reboot will still be slow.
So it begs the question - what is the point of this fast resume anyway? Who puts their phones in hibernation...

wywywywy said:
Someone said it boots so quick because it doesn't actually boot - it resumes from hibernation. So removing the battery will have no change I don't think. But a full reboot will still be slow.
So it begs the question - what is the point of this fast resume anyway? Who puts their phones in hibernation...
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I think it's you when you power off you actually do hibernate without knowing and then it boots in 2 secs, so it makes sense... In such case, an actual reboot would take longer than shutdown and bootup.
When you install new application and it asks you to reboot, then it might take longer than 2 secs.. if reboot also takes 2 secs then it would be even more impressive!

Desire z processor is not that power

All people calming that desire z processor @800mhz scores better in benchmarks than overlooked snapdragon ,this is not true when Iam on desire z Rom I underclocked my hd2 to 806.4 mhz (same as dz) and I got 1512 score from the first time same as Dz with its perfect GPU , SO OUR CPU PERFORMS BETTER ( you can try it yourself ) Iam not a liar ,I think the improved performance is in THE ROM itself not in the processor
Sent from my HTC HD2 T8585 using XDA App

You have to remember that the benchmarks (quadrant, linpack etc) are all synthetic, like 3dmark back in the day for pc graphics cards. There are so many things that can affect your scores both adversely and positively that they should only be used as a very rough guideline and nothing more. Direct comparisons are all but pointless.

Reno_79 said:
You have to remember that the benchmarks (quadrant, linpack etc) are all synthetic, like 3dmark back in the day for pc graphics cards. There are so many things that can affect your scores both adversely and positively that they should only be used as a very rough guideline and nothing more. Direct comparisons are all but pointless.
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Iam talking to people who take quadrant as a prove for performance , I know that its results are not accurate
Sent from my HTC HD2 T8585 using XDA App

I think you should use Quadrant Advanced to compare cpu scores, I know I/O scores help our HD2 a lot.

Even software affects quadrant cpu scores so it is not reliable. Quadrant benchmarks h264 decoding performance as part of cpu benchmark and for example having stagefright driver enabled inflates cpu score by double! Disable stagefright and your cpu will score 400 instead of 800. (in quadrant "advanced") if you use better software decoder it will affect cpu score by large amount. And rebenchmarking produces higher results because of caching. Mips calculating benchmarks are better (like the one in setcpu)
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

That might be true but the Desire Z/G2 has a co-processor for apps that we don't have.
Sent from my HTC HD2 T8585 using XDA App

psykick5 said:
That might be true but the Desire Z/G2 has a co-processor for apps that we don't have.
what is the coprocessor , desire z have same scorpion core like hd2 only with 45n.m tech
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I'd say it has a better processor... it just got overclocked to 1.4 Ghz.
http://www.androidcentral.com/t-mobile-g2-overclock-gets-even-better-and-released

wow that makes me want it

RobertsDF said:
I'd say it has a better processor... it just got overclocked to 1.4 Ghz.
http://www.androidcentral.com/t-mobile-g2-overclock-gets-even-better-and-released
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Your battey will say thank you. Your chipset too. This phone is not made for such things. That won't last very long I think. But it is quite impressive, seems to be veeeeery fast

JanssoN said:
Your battey will say thank you. Your chipset too. This phone is not made for such things. That won't last very long I think. But it is quite impressive, seems to be veeeeery fast
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+1.. imagine, a 75% overclock?? i wonder if the carpet has any burn marks on them when he lifts the phone up, or if his face has any burn marks that's why he's not showing it up on the cam.. lol.. because a 75% OC on a very small device where there is not enough room to breathe, the whole phone would be like a big heatsink if used for a period of time.. and i guess that's also the reason why HTC slapped the 800mhz cpu instead of the 1ghz.. i'm our HD2 can achieve such high of an OC, but it wouldn't be adviceable as it would melt/crack the solder joints on the GPU and/or processor of the phone at that kind of heat.. and i believe that the GPU and apllication coprocessor that they're talking about on the G2 is just a marketing ploy to justify it's price tag.. maybe to cope up with the build price since there are moving parts (hinge) and the hard keyboard.. even the guy at the tmobile store told me that the G2 isn't fast at all.. he said it's nothing close to evo or the nexus one as some people and websites claims.. funny when he asked my what kind of phone do i have.. i pulled my HD2 and showed it to him.. he was surprised to see Android on it and asked me if he could play with it.. so i let him.. and after playing with it for a while, he advised me to wait for the new phone device that's supposed to come out before the end of the year.. he even told me that getting a G2 would be the same as downgrading as he feels that my HD2 is way way faster than the G2.. i told him i'm thinking about getting the vibrant because the port for our HD2 is nothing close to being perfect and that it's still running from the SD card.. again he discouraged me and told me to wait for the next phone device to come.. so i guess that's what i will do..

I'm surprised that you were in store and didn't test drive G2 for yourself, are you sure he is sale person?, he didn't sound like one.

justwonder said:
I'm surprised that you were in store and didn't test drive G2 for yourself, are you sure he is sale person?, he didn't sound like one.
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as a matter of fact i did.. that's actually one of the main reason why i went to the store, as i've been reading a lot of good things on G2.. i went there to compare the G2 with the samsung vibrant.. but through the end, i didn't like the G2's performance despite the fact that it's the only phone right now on TMo that supports the HSPA+.. and yes he's a sales person.. i was surprised as well when he told me about the upcoming desire HD.. but that didn't happen until i showed my HD2 to him and let him play with it for a while.. maybe he knows that i'm a phone enthusiast and that i might just end up returning the phone within the 30 days period after playing with the G2.. who knows?? i think the G2 is wayyy overrated.. it performs within it's specs, nothing special..

RobertsDF said:
I'd say it has a better processor... it just got overclocked to 1.4 Ghz.
http://www.androidcentral.com/t-mobile-g2-overclock-gets-even-better-and-released
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Desire Z overclocks to exactly same speeds. Record OC is 1470MHz.
So they are same CPUs, clocked at different speeds. Bigger screen = higher clock to handle bigger screen.
EDIT: Desire Z overclocks to 1.7GHz at 1400mv
EDIT: Desire Z overclocks to 1.9GHz at 1500mv

[Q] Droid 2 performance question

Hello all, just a quick question about the general performance of the D2...
I currently have an Evo, and i seem to get fairly consistently decent Linpack scores (35-40) even in Sense roms (OC'd to 1152). I also typically have around 200mb free memory after running a task killer.
I have been considering switching to VZW for a variety reasons, so I went and tried out a D2 at the Verizon store. Ran Linpack a few times and got nothing better than 10-12, which came as quite a surprise to me. Also could barely eek out 120mb free memory after running task killer.
So what id like to know is...what kind of numbers are you seeing on your D2 (Linpack, Quadrant, free memory, etc). Additionally, are you getting these numbers with a blur rom or vanilla?
Thank you very much for your input.

theshade89 said:
Hello all, just a quick question about the general performance of the D2...
I currently have an Evo, and i seem to get fairly consistently decent Linpack scores (35-40) even in Sense roms (OC'd to 1152). I also typically have around 200mb free memory after running a task killer.
I have been considering switching to VZW for a variety reasons, so I went and tried out a D2 at the Verizon store. Ran Linpack a few times and got nothing better than 10-12, which came as quite a surprise to me. Also could barely eek out 120mb free memory after running task killer.
So what id like to know is...what kind of numbers are you seeing on your D2 (Linpack, Quadrant, free memory, etc). Additionally, are you getting these numbers with a blur rom or vanilla?
Thank you very much for your input.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just remember that benchmarks are only just that... much of the performance is just everyday feel. But in my opinion, the Evo is the smoothest android out there right now

linpack is faster on snapdragon cores (evo 4g) because of a 128bit SIMD vs the droid 2's OMAP cores 64bit SIMD.
the two processors are pretty much the same, except the GPU is faster in the Droid 2 and the droid2 will have better battery life due to having a 45nm CPU vs the 65nm in the evo 4g snapdragon...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3908/motorola-droid-2-review-rebooting-the-droid

droid2andyou said:
linpack is faster on snapdragon cores (evo 4g) because of a 128bit SIMD vs the droid 2's OMAP cores 64bit SIMD.
the two processors are pretty much the same, except the GPU is faster in the Droid 2 and the droid2 will have better battery life due to having a 45nm CPU vs the 65nm in the evo 4g snapdragon...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3908/motorola-droid-2-review-rebooting-the-droid
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HTC GPU's are bad, but I'd give up graphics for overall performance that HTC offers. Just my 3 cents

Droid 2 omap is faster than the scorpion cpu used in the evo 4g
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App

Benchmarks are the stupidest thing one could base performance on. Instead of actually using the phone to see how it performs, you were too worried about benchmark numbers, and how much free ram the phone has after killing its tasks? If all you care about are those two things, why bother asking here? You already tested the phone with what matters to you.

I've heard that by design linpack does not score well on OMAP processors. If you are getting scores around 16 then you are doing well, but again it's just a benchmark

Some vids I made featuring the DX...

Here are a few videos I made comparing the SPB Shell 3D launcher on my LG G2x to Go Launcher EX running on my Droid X. Enjoy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxm-wwxQDSg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE8rGYwCxx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKcUjPbepDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec0UWCoKzwo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTqF9fRXX1Q

Good job on the videos,
THANKS a lot for steering me clear of that $15 launcher, I totally agree that GO Launcher is better

GolfnWrx said:
Qualcomm has the fastest. If you compared the Droid X to a single 1GHz Snapdragon, you would also see that it is much smoother than the Droid X.
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Incorrect...Have you ever used an HTC Incredible next to a Droid X? The Incredible (1GHz snapdragon) lags considerably with the same programs installed, even in similarly clean OS environment when compared to the DroidX.
Also, your next comment about how the DroidX is slower than old generation 600mhz processors is also totally false.

I'm sorry, don't mean to hijack your thread
Crobs,
No I haven't seen a stock Incredible, what I have seen is an Incredible S, it runs over 30 MFLOPS and I think it's totally stock (may have custom ROM, it belongs to a guy at work). I also don't know what the difference is between an Incredible and an "S".
My son's Optimus running Cyogen 7 runs a Linpack score of 36 MFLOPS. NOTE: The old V6 CPU is actually an 800 MHz CPU that is clocked at 600 MHz, it is slowed down to conserve battery, I know my son is running at 800 MHz, so his battery is life is shortened.
The best I have run (I've tried several different ROMs) is 16...not even 1/2 of what either of them is scoring...right now I'm back to stock running 12 MFLOPS.
Also all of the ROM's I've tried have had issues, reboots, shutdowns, won't turn off, market doesn't work, WIFI, won't push email, etc....just random stuff, I need my phone to work, my son's phone works perfectly and is much faster than mine.
I will accept that you say the Droid-X can run with the Snapdragon, can you tell me which ROM is stable and will run 30+ MFLOPS? Because so far I haven't seen it, and I want to.
Thanks.

GolfnWrx said:
Crobs,
No I haven't seen a stock Incredible, what I have seen is an Incredible S, it runs over 30 MFLOPS and I think it's totally stock (may have custom ROM, it belongs to a guy at work). I also don't know what the difference is between an Incredible and an "S".
My son's Optimus running Cyogen 7 runs a Linpack score of 36 MFLOPS. NOTE: The old V6 CPU is actually an 800 MHz CPU that is clocked at 600 MHz, it is slowed down to conserve battery, I know my son is running at 800 MHz, so his battery is life is shortened.
The best I have run (I've tried several different ROMs) is 16...not even 1/2 of what either of them is scoring...right now I'm back to stock running 12 MFLOPS.
Also all of the ROM's I've tried have had issues, reboots, shutdowns, won't turn off, market doesn't work, WIFI, won't push email, etc....just random stuff, I need my phone to work, my son's phone works perfectly and is much faster than mine.
I will accept that you say the Droid-X can run with the Snapdragon, can you tell me which ROM is stable and will run 30+ MFLOPS? Because so far I haven't seen it, and I want to.
Thanks.
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You're right, I really wish I had 30+ MFLOPS so I could send texts, emails and browse the internet. Oh wait, any phone can already do that.

crobs808 said:
You're right, I really wish I had 30+ MFLOPS so I could send texts, emails and browse the internet. Oh wait, any phone can already do that.
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I have some code written to upload a program for ladder logic in our automated warehouse (ladder logic is what mechanical engineers think programming is).
On my G1 it took about 40 minutes to run. On my droid-x it runs a under 15 mins. If I use a laptop I can run it in about 5 mins, but that means I have to haul a laptop on a 60 foot climb to the top of the scafolding to the controller, it's not so easy, so if I can get it to run from a Linux phone it's easier, in fact I used to use my 40 minute G1 to do it instead of hauling a laptop up there.

I am very familiar with ladder logic. I am a QA Engineer for security software and one of the panels we integrate to uses ladder logic behind the scenes for configuration of access to doors and readers.
At any rate - it seems like you should be taking a Netbook up there with you, or a tablet.
My original point stands - you are trying to us a phone to do what a computer or tablet should be doing. I hear complaints on these forums all the time where people buy a phone then they are dissapointed that it cannot remote start their car....um, like come on you bought a PHONE! what did you expect.
Also, you need to stop going around to all the new posts and posting that Qualcomm is better than DroidX. If you don't like it just keep it to yourself - your comments aren't helping anyone.