Hey guys very very important question , it's about the sar rating when we make calls . Sar represents radiation hazards to the brain and , most phones have predetermined valuethat is approved before they are sold for safety . Please can somebody do a test about this
htc hd2 running on winmo is safe but running on builds like the ones here we are not sure
i hope that the forum members and the developers for tons can find out and let us know.
Very very important !!!
im taking a guess here, but wouldn't it depend on your radio rom not the build?
can someone confirm or dispute this?
primaraly your looking at hardware such as antana and shielding. im doubtfull that diferent radio packages are going to boost things to unacceptable levels, otherwise mfg's wouldnt cook them up.
both winmo and android runs on the same radio regardless of wich one is booted.
does that make you feel more warm and fuzzy on the inside?...... or is it from to much radiation?
Once again, cell phone radiation poses absolutely no dangers to the tissues of your body.
You want to know why?
There is not enough energy in the radio waves.
There is less energy coming off of your cell phone's radio transmitter than there is coming off of your computer screen that you interpret as visible light.
Learn2highschoolphysics
enneract said:
Once again, cell phone radiation poses absolutely no dangers to the tissues of your body.
You want to know why?
There is not enough energy in the radio waves.
There is less energy coming off of your cell phone's radio transmitter than there is coming off of your computer screen that you interpret as visible light.
Learn2highschoolphysics
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right
But if it does still, you won't die because of this radioation. It will only make you sterile if you carry your phone always near of your balls.
But then again if there are safety requirements about this than it is only
Logical to know that if a device exceeds a safe limit then it means
It could pose a health issue.
With that in mind , I hope that a test could be done to resolve the worry.
The radiation also has to with the antenna and battery consumption during
When the phone is searching for signal etc.
Thank you for the reply some of you have given.
ok, first, try educating your self before posting the same drivel in a bunch of diferent threads.
had you spent as much time searching how sar is tested as you did posting , you would have found that its tested @ the hardwares max output.
hmm... the software comes no wheres near pushing the hardware to the limit.
the radio software is the same in both WM mode and in Android mode
therefore this would lead to the conclusion that if it passed federal standards for sar emissions when run @ full hardware output, and we arnt driving it that hard, that we are at a level LOWER than what it was tested...
fariez44 said:
I hope that a test could be done to resolve the worry.
The radiation also has to with the antenna and battery consumption during
When the phone is searching for signal etc.
Thank you for the reply some of you have given.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please fwd me your bank info, and each specific condition you would like it tested.
its not cheep
http://www.metlabs.com/Services/Wir...ywgP2vhaUCFSBugwodfX3aOw.aspx?_kk=SAR+testing
http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/03/01/miller.html
http://www.rfexposurelab.com/
Well thanks for the information , I was looking for an explanation as such
It seems you resolved my doubts and thanks once again.[/B]
Need to take care of ourselves
I keep seeing people who claim to have headaches in the morning whenever they use specific builds. We also know some builds provide better cell signal and wifi capabilities. I strongly guess there is a difference between radiation levels of different builds.
If someone leads us to measure the SAR levels of builds under this forum to get an "XDA approval", we can surely all donate to her/him. Then we also can prefer the builds acording to their radiation levels.
Someone with knowledge please help us to determine:
- methods of measurement
- rules and standards of approving the builds
- safety classification according to SAR levels
Radiation is no joke. We are the only big enough developer community to provide this standardization to custom builds.
Radio waves are not ionizing, and thus do not carry enough energy to pose any danger whatsoever.
It is physically impossible.
enneract said:
Radio waves are not ionizing, and thus do not carry enough energy to pose any danger whatsoever.
It is physically impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The effect of mobile phone radiation have been studied by a lot of scientists. There are thousands of articles about this topic. I agree that there are contradicting results but no single one claims as you said: "it is physically impossible" Or no scientist refused to do the research assuming that the high school physics is enough to finish the argument.
In fact a lot of researchers came into the conclusion that there is a corelation between cancer and mobile phone radiation.[1,2,3]
It has been basicly studied for the short and long term hazards. Long term hazards have not been completely studied yet due to the short history of word wide mobile phone usage. Short term hazards have been proven such as decrease in cognitive functions and prolonged response times. [4]
1. http://journals.lww.com/epidem/page...=2004&issue=11000&article=00003&type=abstract
2. http://oem.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/64/9/626.pdf
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19285839
4. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=69BCBB4C4AC1B054C0B953A974547C77.d03t01
baybenbey said:
I keep seeing people who claim to have headaches in the morning whenever they use specific builds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Id bet that has wayyyy more to do with screen settings, size, brightness resolution refresh rate comparative brightness of the room( dark room more eye strain) than radiation.
Take two or three flights and you'll already have been exposed more than a small transmitter will give in its lifetime.
I have to admit I keep getting headaches with some phones when having long phonecalls. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the screen (always off during calls) or heating up of the phone (all about the same temperature while in use). In the past I would have laughed, but since I paid attention on when and where those headaches started, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the phone radiation. Yes, the general radiation levels are pretty low, but still, they are concentrated at our heads and some of us might be more receptive than others.
First I noticed it with my old HTC Trinity. When I moved to an area with generally low reception, I kept getting headaches during phonecalls, while not having them in other areas where the reception was fine. Those headaches always started on the side of the head, where I held the phone. When switching to a bluetooth headset (which has much lower radiation levels) the headaches were gone.
Another example was the Nokia N73 which I had to use for a job I did. I never had a phone before and after which had such an excellent reception. Areas where I couldn't even get a signal with other phones, were no problem for the N73. I could make and receive phone calls without any problems (1-2 bars). For 3 days I had the phone around my neck with a lanyard. So it was resting on my chest all the time. And I can say for a fact that I got a weird feeling at exact that point. When removing the phone from the lanyard or replacing it with a dummy unit or switching it off, it stopped ...
There are various other phone where I can reproduce that. Unfortunatly.
I'm pretty sure too, that different builds have different radiation levels and the radio rom is not the only thing affecting those. When running WP7 on the HD2 I got headaches very fast (after 5 minutes) being on the phone. With Android (at least the ROM I use) and WM 6.5 those headaches only start after 1+ hour on the phone and even then much less. The radio rom might limit the maximum output, but the specific reception control still comes from within the OS.
So since I seem to be pretty sensitive on this, I'm cool with Android on the HD2. I don't get any more headaches than with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or other "low-SAR-phones"). However with WP7 on the HD2 I had serious problems having long conversations over the phone, comparable to my experience with the HTC Trinity in low reception areas. But I don't think that any of those levels are life threatening - it's just an inconvinience (at least for me). But being a gadget fan and geek that's a little bit of a letdown, having to admit that those things might actually be harmful in one way or another.
baybenbey said:
The effect of mobile phone radiation have been studied by a lot of scientists. There are thousands of articles about this topic. I agree that there are contradicting results but no single one claims as you said: "it is physically impossible" Or no scientist refused to do the research assuming that the high school physics is enough to finish the argument.
In fact a lot of researchers came into the conclusion that there is a corelation between cancer and mobile phone radiation.[1,2,3]
It has been basicly studied for the short and long term hazards. Long term hazards have not been completely studied yet due to the short history of word wide mobile phone usage. Short term hazards have been proven such as decrease in cognitive functions and prolonged response times. [4]
1. http://journals.lww.com/epidem/page...=2004&issue=11000&article=00003&type=abstract
2. http://oem.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/64/9/626.pdf
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19285839
4. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=69BCBB4C4AC1B054C0B953A974547C77.d03t01
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yet, every study focusing on the overall cancer rate in comparison to cell phone adoption has found no correlation. There are numerous experimental problems with actually studying the supposed effect directly (in fact, there was a new york times article earlier this week written by an oncologist enumerating those problems, and why the research, either way, on this subject is fundamentally flawed).
However, the fact remains that if you are scared of this latest nonsensical boogeyman, you should also avoid exposure to all EM radiation of radio and higher energies - you know, radio waves, microwaves, infrared and visible light - goodluck!
I have to admit I keep getting headaches with some phones when having long phonecalls. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the screen (always off during calls) or heating up of the phone (all about the same temperature while in use). In the past I would have laughed, but since I paid attention on when and where those headaches started, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the phone radiation. Yes, the general radiation levels are pretty low, but still, they are concentrated at our heads and some of us might be more receptive than others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously there is no way that you can get a headache from listening to a speaker placed a few millimeters from your ear for an extended period of time. Obviously, no bloody idiot would think that.
Re-read my post ;-) the speaker has nothing to do with the headaches...
Jeez this whole discussion sounds like one of those stupid news lead-ins like 'find out whats killing your kids... ...right after the break'
Surely there are worthier things to worry about than the radiation from cel phones. Just tune in to Fox News, you'll find plenty of ridiculous crap to worry about. Ask yourself this : if you know for sure that when you're 70 you'll have cancer from using cel phones all your life, will that be enough to make you stop using them now? I'll take the cancer over going back to pagers and pay-phones.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
What's the problem discussing possible downsites of customizing our devices? It's not black and white, you know. We can discuss this stuff, and use phones accordingly to our findings and knowledge.
And as said before: It's not (only) about cancer (or any other long term damage this might cause). There are obviously short term effects for some people, why not try minimizing those?
I think it's no difference between WinMo or android builds radiation because the hardware it's the same whit its limitations....even if this wasn't true the livel of sar are not so high to damage our brain(it's possible some biological effect)...so take it easy...only God knows...perhaps
It is really weird that some people here, agrssively oppose individuals who are sharing their concerns by stating some scientific findings about the hazards of SAR. What is the purpose of trying to insult and silence people on the discussion of such a potential risk? Weird!
In the previous references I shared, more than one study of 10+ year of mobile phone usage statistics point out an increased incidence of brain cancer. There are many studies with this result.
And secondly, I found few articles which completely refuses the hazards and defends the safety of mobile phone radiation by agressively opposing(like some people here) the related scientific data. Most of them are suspiciously published from Finland(Country of Nokia). These articles are written in an ideologic and biased manner and falsify all the findings which prove the cancer corelation as nocebo effect or false positive. Or they study the effects of SAR on skin epitheliel cells(relatively resistant against radiation) instead of brain glial cells(sensitive to radiation) and -no surprise- in the end there is no serious harmfull effect... These articles urge to come into the conclusion that SAR is as lovely as blessing of God! Take a look at the discussion section of wikipedia on this topic. All editors complain biased and frequent editing of the page by someone who is adding suggestive sentences to defend the safety of SAR. Hmm...
According to some people here, by looking at the relative wavlength and frequency, microwaves are supposed to be less harmfull than visible light. In fact we can cook a chicken in a microwave oven but not in a sunny beach. SAR can not be found safe by comparing only wavelength/frequency. Who tries to do that obviously misses 3 major points which are:
- distance from source
- intensity of rays
- duration of exposure.
Anyway, even the fanatic SAR defenders in scientific community do not defend it by such a point of view.
One of the popular mods on XDA is Data Throttle Removal (AKA DTR), as described in this thread:
[MOD] Uncapped Data For Your ROMS (Skyraider, Virtuous, OMGB, ETC). In fact, some people consider it so vital that I have seen them delay upgrading their rom (even if the upgrade contains bugfixes) because they are waiting for a new DTR to be created.
The premise of this mod is simple:
1. Throttle code was discovered in our services.jar file.
2. It has been hypothesized that Verizon uses this code to throttle our 3G data speeds.
3. It is further hypothesized that flashing this mod disables the throttle, thereby returning your 3G speeds to their full potential.
In reading the forums, I see a lot of different values being thrown around. Quoting that original thread, for example, it is claimed that "Verizon starts to throttle data speeds after 5gb of data. That doesn't mean you get charged more, Verizon just slows you down. This mod will prevent that, and only that."
Looking at the code itself, however, pokes some holes in the original premise:
ihtfp69 said:
Examining the code, if this throttling service was engaged, it would put an icon in the notification bar. You would know it was on. This is code built in by Google. It is not an add on from Verizon. Personally, I would leave it alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at your framework-res.apk should show you the icon that is being mentioned. In the stock Froyo framework, for example, it can be found at /res/drawable-hdpi/stat_sys_throttled.png
And here's what it looks like in stock Froyo:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
As for the 5gb claims, I cannot find any source on where that figure comes from. While Verizon has publicly stated that they reserve the right to throttle data (even on unlimited plans), they only state that it may be done to "the top 5% of Verizon Wireless data users."
Source:
http://support.vzw.com/terms/products/broadbandaccess_nationalaccess.html
http://support.vzw.com/terms/products/vz_email.html
While a VZW network specialist may be misinformed (or lie), here's what one had to say when this topic was broached by AdhvanIt:
AdhvanIt said:
Just FYI. According to the VZW network specialist that I talked to the other day, consumers are notified if their data is to be throttled due to high data usage. Mine has not been throttled and I've used 5.2GB of data, with my cycle not ending until the 22nd. He said my usage wasn't nearly high enough to have my data throttled. Its the top 5% of users that get throttled.
Edit: when i asked, he also told me that data was throttled from the line itself, not from the device. Not saying the DTR is all placebo effect, but confirming why its never done anything for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The VZW network specialist's statement echoes the VZW official release on their website, and AdhvanIt's data usage shows that the 5gb figure is not necessarily a hard threshold.
The argument that VZW would not throttle in this method also has merit. As mentioned by ihtfp69, the throttle is Google code, not VZW code. Furthermore, by placing the burden of throttling on the device alone, VZW leaves itself easily exposed to exactly the kind of hack that people are trying to achieve. Maybe they are indeed that lazy, but I have a difficult time believing that. They have complete control over your services: why would they leave this one task up to the phone?
Actually, given that this mod came over to us from the EVO, it would mean that both Sprint and Verizon were relying on this throttle. Why would two phone giants who have different networks, policies, and plans, rely on the same throttle that was coded as part of Android itself?
But perhaps those arguments are a bit too hypothetical to address in a meaningful way. Besides, as ihtfp69 further states:
ihtfp69 said:
If ppl are think they are getting better throughput with this mod, then go for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there's the rub. I see a lot of anecdotes but very few hard numbers. When I do see numbers here and there, they are generally extremely small samples: 1 or 2 speed tests done before and after the mod. Such a small sample is statistically insignificant, especially since we know that 3G speeds fluctuate based on location, time of day, population, etc.
In my own testing, I have not been able to find any difference between a stock services.jar file and one that has been modified with DTR. I make this statement based on 70 recorded speed tests, split evenly between stock and DTR. Forty recordings were taken throughout a single morning at my office, where my signal hovers around -84 dBm (the building itself interferes with reception). The thirty remaining recordings were taken throughout a single evening at my house, where my signal hovers around -74 dBm. I flashed back and forth between stock and DTR every few tests to ensure that neither testing condition was clumped into a single time window or boot cycle.
Office:
Home:
If I hadn't run so many trials, I could have easily seen a difference that was purely chance, but falsely attributed to DTR. This is true even across multiple readings. For example, my first few readings at the office:
Stock:
Test #1: 1,155 kbps
Test #2: 1,090 kbps
Test #3: 1,008 kbps
DTR:
Test #1: 557 kbps
Test #2: 1,406 kbps
Test #3: 1,404 kbps
Someone might look at these figures and think that DTR had delivered a 40% increase in max achievable speed. Looking back at the full chart, however, over the course of many trials, it is clear that the differences were natural fluctuations.
Of course, you could reasonably retort that I am seeing no difference because I am not being targeted by Verizon's throttling.
The question then becomes, why do you believe that you are being throttled? Is it solely a dissatisfaction with "stock" 3G speeds, or do you have reason to believe something more?
When you are not using DTR, do you see the throttle icon present in your notification bar? If the services.jar file really is the culprit, you should.
Have you ever been notified by VZW that you are being throttled?
How much data do you use in an average billing cycle?
Do you have more substantiation than a small handful of readings?
I would love to find out that DTR is truly effective, but I have yet to see convincing evidence.
I have to agree. I tested over a few days & came to same conclusion. No increase at all just standard fluctuations.
sent from dinc
byrong said:
One of the popular mods on XDA is Data Throttle Removal (AKA DTR), as described in this thread:
[MOD] Uncapped Data For Your ROMS (Skyraider, Virtuous, OMGB, ETC). In fact, some people consider it so vital that I have seen them delay upgrading their rom (even if the upgrade contains bugfixes) because they are waiting for a new DTR to be created.
The premise of this mod is simple:
1. Throttle code was discovered in our services.jar file.
2. It has been hypothesized that Verizon uses this code to throttle our 3G data speeds.
3. It is further hypothesized that flashing this mod disables the throttle, thereby returning your 3G speeds to their full potential.
In reading the forums, I see a lot of different values being thrown around. Quoting that original thread, for example, it is claimed that "Verizon starts to throttle data speeds after 5gb of data. That doesn't mean you get charged more, Verizon just slows you down. This mod will prevent that, and only that."
Looking at the code itself, however, pokes some holes in the original premise:
Looking at your framework-res.apk should show you the icon that is being mentioned. In the stock Froyo framework, for example, it can be found at /res/drawable-hdpi/stat_sys_throttled.png
And here's what it looks like in stock Froyo:
As for the 5gb claims, I cannot find any source on where that figure comes from. While Verizon has publicly stated that they reserve the right to throttle data (even on unlimited plans), they only state that it may be done to "the top 5% of Verizon Wireless data users."
Source:
http://support.vzw.com/terms/products/broadbandaccess_nationalaccess.html
http://support.vzw.com/terms/products/vz_email.html
While a VZW network specialist may be misinformed (or lie), here's what one had to say when this topic was broached by AdhvanIt:
The VZW network specialist's statement echoes the VZW official release on their website, and AdhvanIt's data usage shows that the 5gb figure is not necessarily a hard threshold.
The argument that VZW would not throttle in this method also has merit. As mentioned by ihtfp69, the throttle is Google code, not VZW code. Furthermore, by placing the burden of throttling on the device alone, VZW leaves itself easily exposed to exactly the kind of hack that people are trying to achieve. Maybe they are indeed that lazy, but I have a difficult time believing that. They have complete control over your services: why would they leave this one task up to the phone?
Actually, given that this mod came over to us from the EVO, it would mean that both Sprint and Verizon were relying on this throttle. Why would two phone giants who have different networks, policies, and plans, rely on the same throttle that was coded as part of Android itself?
But perhaps those arguments are a bit too hypothetical to address in a meaningful way. Besides, as ihtfp69 further states:
And there's the rub. I see a lot of anecdotes but very few hard numbers. When I do see numbers here and there, they are generally extremely small samples: 1 or 2 speed tests done before and after the mod. Such a small sample is statistically insignificant, especially since we know that 3G speeds fluctuate based on location, time of day, population, etc.
In my own testing, I have not been able to find any difference between a stock services.jar file and one that has been modified with DTR. I make this statement based on 70 recorded speed tests, split evenly between stock and DTR. Forty recordings were taken throughout a single morning at my office, where my signal hovers around -84 dBm (the building itself interferes with reception). The thirty remaining recordings were taken throughout a single evening at my house, where my signal hovers around -74 dBm. I flashed back and forth between stock and DTR every few tests to ensure that neither testing condition was clumped into a single time window or boot cycle.
Office:
Home:
If I hadn't run so many trials, I could have easily seen a difference that was purely chance, but falsely attributed to DTR. This is true even across multiple readings. For example, my first few readings at the office:
Stock:
Test #1: 1,155 kbps
Test #2: 1,090 kbps
Test #3: 1,008 kbps
DTR:
Test #1: 557 kbps
Test #2: 1,406 kbps
Test #3: 1,404 kbps
Someone might look at these figures and think that DTR had delivered a 40% increase in max achievable speed. Looking back at the full chart, however, over the course of many trials, it is clear that the differences were natural fluctuations.
Of course, you could reasonably retort that I am seeing no difference because I am not being targeted by Verizon's throttling.
The question then becomes, why do you believe that you are being throttled? Is it solely a dissatisfaction with "stock" 3G speeds, or do you have reason to believe something more?
When you are not using DTR, do you see the throttle icon present in your notification bar? If the services.jar file really is the culprit, you should.
Have you ever been notified by VZW that you are being throttled?
How much data do you use in an average billing cycle?
Do you have more substantiation than a small handful of readings?
I would love to find out that DTR is truly effective, but I have yet to see convincing evidence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think this is all placebo. The code was written by Google and not VZW. and it would be easier for VZW just to limit your connection on there end rather then send a code to turn it on, on the phone.
PLUS VZW knows that we can hack our phone and delete the code our self's so of course they would have a back up plan.
Great Busting of that myth. I figured that it was useless to an extent
Thanks for another great writeup byrong!
I have been assuming these modifications didn't do anything but never tested much between the two.
I'm inclined to agree with you. Logically, why would VZ throttle from the handset rather than from inside the network? However...
I have two brothers with the droid x and I have an incredible. One brother has complained of awful speeds lately, and they are pretty bad for him. I just started to notice it too. Now, I've begun to do some testing switching ROMs and such to see what happens. I normally run CM7 and about an hour ago was pulling .11Mbps where I have in the past had at least 1Mbps.
First, I tried the stock 2.2 PB31 zip file. I went through the initial wizard steps, started the market, added a secondary gmail account (not the one I normally use with my phone), and downloaded the speedtest app. No restoring, nothing. In that environment, I was getting bad speeds (can't recall if the .11 was back at CM7 or with stock sense). I wanted to try a ROM that included the throttle patch/fix/whatever. I did a full wipe and installed magnolia.
Same process as with stock, didn't install anything, just speedtest. Bam. 1.5+MBps consistently across 2-3 tests.
I'm flashing CM7 clean and will test it without installing anything. Now, I absolutely agree that a handset-side throttle makes no sense whatsoever, but something is going on that I can't account for...I'll have to try flashing something like skyraider, testing, then flashing the throttle remover and see how that goes, but CM is taking forever to boot...
UPDATE: OK, so CM7 finally booted and I was pulling 1-1.5Mbps. I restored my nandroid from earlier tonight before I went ROM crazy and I'm at 2.4Mbps down. Weirdnes...
johantheolive said:
UPDATE: OK, so CM7 finally booted and I was pulling 1-1.5Mbps. I restored my nandroid from earlier tonight before I went ROM crazy and I'm at 2.4Mbps down. Weirdnes...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that goes to show what many people experience and mistake for increased speed with the mod, thanks for sharing
I completely agree with you byrong, great write up and data.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
POQbum said:
I think that goes to show what many people experience and mistake for increased speed with the mod, thanks for sharing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but how do I account for pulling such miserable speeds at one point and adequate an hour later, in the same location? I tested this morning and am doing 2Mbps+. Something's not right somewhere, whether it's network congestion or throttling, but then again that's not really related to these client side 'fixes'. It's only been prevalent since the iphone release, which was when VZ came out with throttling the upper percentile of users...
johantheolive said:
I agree, but how do I account for pulling such miserable speeds at one point and adequate an hour later, in the same location? I tested this morning and am doing 2Mbps+. Something's not right somewhere, whether it's network congestion or throttling, but then again that's not really related to these client side 'fixes'. It's only been prevalent since the iphone release, which was when VZ came out with throttling the upper percentile of users...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could be any number of moment-to-moment variables that affect how RF signals propogate.
Simple stuff like weather can affect speed. It's likely there might had been a few users pulling a lot of data at that particular time to reduce that.
Without seeing what's actually causing the slowdowns it's easy to try and pin the problem on something it's not, but there's definitely a lot of variables when it comes to data speed over 3G on your phone so it could easily be something you haven't even thought of that was limiting the speed at that time.
Thanks guys - glad you appreciate the write-up.
I'm a skeptic, but I am completely open to being proven wrong on this topic (or any issue, really).
najaboy said:
Could be any number of moment-to-moment variables that affect how RF signals propogate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
POQbum said:
Without seeing what's actually causing the slowdowns it's easy to try and pin the problem on something it's not, but there's definitely a lot of variables when it comes to data speed over 3G on your phone so it could easily be something you haven't even thought of that was limiting the speed at that time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well stated, gents.
Our brains are amazing pattern recognition systems. The problem is that they try way too damn hard. It's why many people have superstitious beliefs and why Airborne continues to sell
Im not sure if it works or not but Im willing to try.
My company says they throttle at 100MB (yes, 100MB) so Im willing to try this out.
riahc3 said:
Im not sure if it works or not but Im willing to try.
My company says they throttle at 100MB (yes, 100MB) so Im willing to try this out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If, after such a clear and concise debunking, you're still not sure, there are some folks in Nigeria that are willing to make you a very rich individual.
I've had a slightly different experience. Before the DTR, I couldn't get above approx 1mbps down, however after I get about 3 on 3g, and 9 on my wifi.
Maybe it's just a freak occurrence, though.
omgjosho,
Thanks for chiming in. I'm very much interested to hear from people who believe they've seen results from DTR. In the interest of gathering more data, could you answer the following?
byrong said:
When you are not using DTR, do you see the throttle icon present in your notification bar? If the services.jar file really is the culprit, you should.
Have you ever been notified by VZW that you are being throttled?
How much data do you use in an average billing cycle?
Do you have more substantiation than a small handful of readings?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're the second person I've seen point to Wi-Fi speeds, but no carrier would have any interest in throttling your Wi-Fi. On the contrary, they would want to encourage Wi-Fi as it shifts demand for data off of their network.
Anything done on Wi-Fi is meaningless to Verizon. It doesn't count towards your monthly data usage.
byrong said:
omgjosho,
Thanks for chiming in. I'm very much interested to hear from people who believe they've seen results from DTR. In the interest of gathering more data, could you answer the following?
You're the second person I've seen point to Wi-Fi speeds, but no carrier would have any interest in throttling your Wi-Fi. On the contrary, they would want to encourage Wi-Fi as it shifts demand for data off of their network.
Anything done on Wi-Fi is meaningless to Verizon. It doesn't count towards your monthly data usage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah. Mostly a misread on my part then. I use somewhere between 500mb and 1gb a month. I've never noticed the throttling icon.
I understand what you're saying about the wifi part, but if it's a software data cap, theoretically it may not differentiate between wifi and 3g and cap the data throughput completely. I look at the DTR more like uncapping a cable modem as opposed to preventing the provider based throttle. So maybe I misunderstood. Simply posting the empirical evidence I had, the only difference was the 10 minutes it took to nandroid and flash the DTR. I was standing in the same spot in my house with the same amount of signal. *shrug*
omgjosho said:
I use somewhere between 500mb and 1gb a month.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's almost impossible to believe that Verizon is throttling you with that kind of data usage. That's less than 35mb per day: practically insignificant on their network. A couple email attachments, picture messages (not to mention video), some YouTube... the average person can consume that much data no problem.
If you were being throttled for that kind of usage, then almost every Verizon smartphone user would be actively throttled on a regular basis. The internet would be lit up like a Christmas tree with all of the complaints that people would post.
The top 5% of users may be throttled, but as AdhvanIt has shown, Verizon doesn't even consider >5gb of data in a billing cycle to reach the top 5%
I keep reading and reading, looking for the origins of all of this. I see people trying to use this mod on T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon, and Cricket. To add to the reading list, here's the oldest thread I've found so far:
Dec 7 - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=863923
I don't know when this quote was added to the original post, since it has been edited, but:
sino8r said:
SO FAR, THIS HAS ONLY BEEN KNOWN TO WORK ON T-MOBILE USA AND CANADA BELL... ALL OTHER CARRIERS SEEM TO HAVE THESE FILES JUST BECAUSE IT'S A STANDARD IN ANDROID 2.2.1 AND SEEM TO BE CONTROLLED COMPLETELY OTA UNLIKE TMOBILE AND BELL...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And in that thread it is stated that the mod no longer even works on T-Mobile: that it is "extinct."
It looks like Dec 26 is when people brought it to the Evo / Sprint world: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888372
I read through all of that second thread and from the very beginning people were doubting the effectiveness of the mod on the Sprint network, or frankly even the need for it. There are numerous posters in there showing 20-30gb of data usage with no throttle from Sprint even on stock services.jar
omgjosho said:
I've never noticed the throttling icon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which again, in and of itself, should indicate that the services.jar throttle function was not the cause of your speed fluctuations.
omgjosho said:
I understand what you're saying about the wifi part, but if it's a software data cap, theoretically it may not differentiate between wifi and 3g and cap the data throughput completely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theoretically.... I guess. But now we're moving beyond the realm of "ambiguous data" straight into "wild theory." Not even the developers of this mod ever claimed that it would influence Wi-Fi.
omgjosho said:
Simply posting the empirical evidence I had, the only difference was the 10 minutes it took to nandroid and flash the DTR. I was standing in the same spot in my house with the same amount of signal. *shrug*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's the thing: 10 minutes could certainly be an influencing factor. As noted by the other members, there are a lot of variables that go into 3G speeds: distance to tower, users connected to tower, time of day, weather, reception, geographical region, and so on.
Additionally, there are variables within the phone itself. Maybe before you flashed the DTR, your phone was using background internet services that slowed your speed test. Just one possible influence.
This is why I flashed back and forth between stock and DTR in my own testing: I wanted to minimize the potential influence of other variables by spreading the readings across time, location, and other conditions. I'm not saying your data is meaningless, just that it lacks the controls to consider it conclusive. I'm also not sure how many readings you took, so it's hard to judge the mathematical probability that the differences were chance.
I'm not particularly disagreeing with you here, as I'm near positive you've done much more research on the subject than I.
Truth be told, I got rid of the patch simply because I'm too lazy to update it when they release it, and it occasionally caused my 3g connection to take a dump. I'd prefer stability over faster speeds any day.
The thing is, until someone, anyone, can provide a test like byrong did except showing different results, then byrong is correct by default.
As far as I know, NO ONE has done this test other than him.
I've seen "one speed test shows dtr is faster".
I've seen "one speed test shows dtr is slower for me".
You have to do several tests, alternating, between dtr and non-dtr before you can say it works or not.
Is there actually throttle code in the phone? Yes.
Is the phone capable of throttling? Yes.
Does the dtr mod make the phone incapable of throttling? Yes.
Is the throttle code ever used? No. And unless you can provide a test like byrong's showing otherwise, then your opinion is not very valid.
I think android has the code as a generic function that providers could use if they wanted to.
As for the cable-box analogy, cable providers sell many different speeds. The cable box throttles you to your paid speed. Verizon sells 1 speed total, they have no need to throttle you with the device, everyone is the same.
I have never rooted any of my Android devices because I've never really had any reason to. That and I was always nervous to do with my Droid Incredible even though I'm a computer guy.
However, I am considering rooting for this device because of some benefits I've read about such as:
1. Overclocking
2. Better battery life
3. Additional apps or functionality (I want to use Google Movies, Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc and I am guessing root might help get some of this sooner based on some of the other threads)
My concern is whether overclocking has any risk to the processor long term in the tab? For some reason, I seem to have something in my head from years back that overclocking computers/devices could cause processors to overheat or something. Maybe this is an old concern from when I was in college that was specific to PC hardware?
Also, aside from sticky threads, is there any thing on the wiki that talks a bit more about some of the apps used to manage ROMs and backups along with what is preferred and why? I read a good rooting guide thread in Android development forum but apps change all the time and I read different things in each thread that it can be hard to follow jumping in now.
If I missed a thread, feel free to point me to it.
Thanks.
Overclock always carries risks to hardware, especially without proper configuration. When overclocking you will use apps such as SetCPU or others, these apps typically have 'profiles' set up. On my LG G2x I have profiles set like:
Default 1.5GHz
Screen Off 400mhz
Battery Tempurate 48c Downclock to 800mhz
These settings will give you great performance, great battery life and a safety net assuming you leave your phone in direct heat. Sometimes if the battery gets too hot you'll damage your hardware, I've had this happen to my old Nexus One where I now have a very dark spot measuring about half an inch around on my display.
In consideration to rooted apps for Galaxy Tab... Hulu works without root by simply installing a modified Adobe Flash Player and adjusting your browser configuration to reflect a desktop user agent (You can easily find all this information using Google). Google Movies probably won't be available to rooted devices due to the agreement that Google signed with production companies, and whether root will allow you to run this application really depends on the way the content is delivered, however, I'm sure someone will figure it out.
Overclocking the Galaxy Tab probably will resemble the performance measures of other Tegra based devices. G2x can acheive 1.5GHz and Xoom 1.7GHz. Stability is really hit or miss as no two cpu's are created equal. I'm on my third Galaxy Tab and my third G2x and have not ran into an issue where I can't overclock to the speeds which kernel developers are building.
Edit: There is really only one overclock kernel available right now for the 10.1 and Pershoot is working hard to make it stable and powerful, the current 'preview' has quite a few stability issues.
So, hopefully this helps you out. Just an FYI though, really try and search. This has been repeated hundreds of times throughout various different forums. The general consensus is that rooting provides far too many benefits to be afraid of hurting your device, and so long as your are able to A. Unroot the phone for manufacture warranty B. Backup and restore using Nandroid, you will not have any issues that can't be resolved.
Heat is bad for electronics, and any time you increase the operating frequency or voltage of a microprocessor, you're going to be generating more heat. Modern hardware has thermal monitoring and throttling capabilities, and as such you're going to be able to simply fry your processor by pushing it too hard. However the additional stress is is accumulative and will shorten the life of your hardware.
That being said, I suspect that the operational life time of the chips in our tablets (and virtually any modern computer) is several orders of magnitude longer than their useful life time. I'm not entirely sure how long these processors last if operated at spec (it may be in a white paper somewhere), but I suspect it is on the order of many decades, if not centuries.
mesasone, true it will generate heat at full load but in all reality my G2x rarely throttles all the way up to 1.5GHz unless I manual set it to for benchmarking.
Thanks wesbalmer and mesasone. I've been reading threads all day for the last 6 hrs before posting but I'll search a bit more next time. This was helpful in reassuring me though.