One of the popular mods on XDA is Data Throttle Removal (AKA DTR), as described in this thread:
[MOD] Uncapped Data For Your ROMS (Skyraider, Virtuous, OMGB, ETC). In fact, some people consider it so vital that I have seen them delay upgrading their rom (even if the upgrade contains bugfixes) because they are waiting for a new DTR to be created.
The premise of this mod is simple:
1. Throttle code was discovered in our services.jar file.
2. It has been hypothesized that Verizon uses this code to throttle our 3G data speeds.
3. It is further hypothesized that flashing this mod disables the throttle, thereby returning your 3G speeds to their full potential.
In reading the forums, I see a lot of different values being thrown around. Quoting that original thread, for example, it is claimed that "Verizon starts to throttle data speeds after 5gb of data. That doesn't mean you get charged more, Verizon just slows you down. This mod will prevent that, and only that."
Looking at the code itself, however, pokes some holes in the original premise:
ihtfp69 said:
Examining the code, if this throttling service was engaged, it would put an icon in the notification bar. You would know it was on. This is code built in by Google. It is not an add on from Verizon. Personally, I would leave it alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at your framework-res.apk should show you the icon that is being mentioned. In the stock Froyo framework, for example, it can be found at /res/drawable-hdpi/stat_sys_throttled.png
And here's what it looks like in stock Froyo:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
As for the 5gb claims, I cannot find any source on where that figure comes from. While Verizon has publicly stated that they reserve the right to throttle data (even on unlimited plans), they only state that it may be done to "the top 5% of Verizon Wireless data users."
Source:
http://support.vzw.com/terms/products/broadbandaccess_nationalaccess.html
http://support.vzw.com/terms/products/vz_email.html
While a VZW network specialist may be misinformed (or lie), here's what one had to say when this topic was broached by AdhvanIt:
AdhvanIt said:
Just FYI. According to the VZW network specialist that I talked to the other day, consumers are notified if their data is to be throttled due to high data usage. Mine has not been throttled and I've used 5.2GB of data, with my cycle not ending until the 22nd. He said my usage wasn't nearly high enough to have my data throttled. Its the top 5% of users that get throttled.
Edit: when i asked, he also told me that data was throttled from the line itself, not from the device. Not saying the DTR is all placebo effect, but confirming why its never done anything for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The VZW network specialist's statement echoes the VZW official release on their website, and AdhvanIt's data usage shows that the 5gb figure is not necessarily a hard threshold.
The argument that VZW would not throttle in this method also has merit. As mentioned by ihtfp69, the throttle is Google code, not VZW code. Furthermore, by placing the burden of throttling on the device alone, VZW leaves itself easily exposed to exactly the kind of hack that people are trying to achieve. Maybe they are indeed that lazy, but I have a difficult time believing that. They have complete control over your services: why would they leave this one task up to the phone?
Actually, given that this mod came over to us from the EVO, it would mean that both Sprint and Verizon were relying on this throttle. Why would two phone giants who have different networks, policies, and plans, rely on the same throttle that was coded as part of Android itself?
But perhaps those arguments are a bit too hypothetical to address in a meaningful way. Besides, as ihtfp69 further states:
ihtfp69 said:
If ppl are think they are getting better throughput with this mod, then go for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there's the rub. I see a lot of anecdotes but very few hard numbers. When I do see numbers here and there, they are generally extremely small samples: 1 or 2 speed tests done before and after the mod. Such a small sample is statistically insignificant, especially since we know that 3G speeds fluctuate based on location, time of day, population, etc.
In my own testing, I have not been able to find any difference between a stock services.jar file and one that has been modified with DTR. I make this statement based on 70 recorded speed tests, split evenly between stock and DTR. Forty recordings were taken throughout a single morning at my office, where my signal hovers around -84 dBm (the building itself interferes with reception). The thirty remaining recordings were taken throughout a single evening at my house, where my signal hovers around -74 dBm. I flashed back and forth between stock and DTR every few tests to ensure that neither testing condition was clumped into a single time window or boot cycle.
Office:
Home:
If I hadn't run so many trials, I could have easily seen a difference that was purely chance, but falsely attributed to DTR. This is true even across multiple readings. For example, my first few readings at the office:
Stock:
Test #1: 1,155 kbps
Test #2: 1,090 kbps
Test #3: 1,008 kbps
DTR:
Test #1: 557 kbps
Test #2: 1,406 kbps
Test #3: 1,404 kbps
Someone might look at these figures and think that DTR had delivered a 40% increase in max achievable speed. Looking back at the full chart, however, over the course of many trials, it is clear that the differences were natural fluctuations.
Of course, you could reasonably retort that I am seeing no difference because I am not being targeted by Verizon's throttling.
The question then becomes, why do you believe that you are being throttled? Is it solely a dissatisfaction with "stock" 3G speeds, or do you have reason to believe something more?
When you are not using DTR, do you see the throttle icon present in your notification bar? If the services.jar file really is the culprit, you should.
Have you ever been notified by VZW that you are being throttled?
How much data do you use in an average billing cycle?
Do you have more substantiation than a small handful of readings?
I would love to find out that DTR is truly effective, but I have yet to see convincing evidence.
I have to agree. I tested over a few days & came to same conclusion. No increase at all just standard fluctuations.
sent from dinc
byrong said:
One of the popular mods on XDA is Data Throttle Removal (AKA DTR), as described in this thread:
[MOD] Uncapped Data For Your ROMS (Skyraider, Virtuous, OMGB, ETC). In fact, some people consider it so vital that I have seen them delay upgrading their rom (even if the upgrade contains bugfixes) because they are waiting for a new DTR to be created.
The premise of this mod is simple:
1. Throttle code was discovered in our services.jar file.
2. It has been hypothesized that Verizon uses this code to throttle our 3G data speeds.
3. It is further hypothesized that flashing this mod disables the throttle, thereby returning your 3G speeds to their full potential.
In reading the forums, I see a lot of different values being thrown around. Quoting that original thread, for example, it is claimed that "Verizon starts to throttle data speeds after 5gb of data. That doesn't mean you get charged more, Verizon just slows you down. This mod will prevent that, and only that."
Looking at the code itself, however, pokes some holes in the original premise:
Looking at your framework-res.apk should show you the icon that is being mentioned. In the stock Froyo framework, for example, it can be found at /res/drawable-hdpi/stat_sys_throttled.png
And here's what it looks like in stock Froyo:
As for the 5gb claims, I cannot find any source on where that figure comes from. While Verizon has publicly stated that they reserve the right to throttle data (even on unlimited plans), they only state that it may be done to "the top 5% of Verizon Wireless data users."
Source:
http://support.vzw.com/terms/products/broadbandaccess_nationalaccess.html
http://support.vzw.com/terms/products/vz_email.html
While a VZW network specialist may be misinformed (or lie), here's what one had to say when this topic was broached by AdhvanIt:
The VZW network specialist's statement echoes the VZW official release on their website, and AdhvanIt's data usage shows that the 5gb figure is not necessarily a hard threshold.
The argument that VZW would not throttle in this method also has merit. As mentioned by ihtfp69, the throttle is Google code, not VZW code. Furthermore, by placing the burden of throttling on the device alone, VZW leaves itself easily exposed to exactly the kind of hack that people are trying to achieve. Maybe they are indeed that lazy, but I have a difficult time believing that. They have complete control over your services: why would they leave this one task up to the phone?
Actually, given that this mod came over to us from the EVO, it would mean that both Sprint and Verizon were relying on this throttle. Why would two phone giants who have different networks, policies, and plans, rely on the same throttle that was coded as part of Android itself?
But perhaps those arguments are a bit too hypothetical to address in a meaningful way. Besides, as ihtfp69 further states:
And there's the rub. I see a lot of anecdotes but very few hard numbers. When I do see numbers here and there, they are generally extremely small samples: 1 or 2 speed tests done before and after the mod. Such a small sample is statistically insignificant, especially since we know that 3G speeds fluctuate based on location, time of day, population, etc.
In my own testing, I have not been able to find any difference between a stock services.jar file and one that has been modified with DTR. I make this statement based on 70 recorded speed tests, split evenly between stock and DTR. Forty recordings were taken throughout a single morning at my office, where my signal hovers around -84 dBm (the building itself interferes with reception). The thirty remaining recordings were taken throughout a single evening at my house, where my signal hovers around -74 dBm. I flashed back and forth between stock and DTR every few tests to ensure that neither testing condition was clumped into a single time window or boot cycle.
Office:
Home:
If I hadn't run so many trials, I could have easily seen a difference that was purely chance, but falsely attributed to DTR. This is true even across multiple readings. For example, my first few readings at the office:
Stock:
Test #1: 1,155 kbps
Test #2: 1,090 kbps
Test #3: 1,008 kbps
DTR:
Test #1: 557 kbps
Test #2: 1,406 kbps
Test #3: 1,404 kbps
Someone might look at these figures and think that DTR had delivered a 40% increase in max achievable speed. Looking back at the full chart, however, over the course of many trials, it is clear that the differences were natural fluctuations.
Of course, you could reasonably retort that I am seeing no difference because I am not being targeted by Verizon's throttling.
The question then becomes, why do you believe that you are being throttled? Is it solely a dissatisfaction with "stock" 3G speeds, or do you have reason to believe something more?
When you are not using DTR, do you see the throttle icon present in your notification bar? If the services.jar file really is the culprit, you should.
Have you ever been notified by VZW that you are being throttled?
How much data do you use in an average billing cycle?
Do you have more substantiation than a small handful of readings?
I would love to find out that DTR is truly effective, but I have yet to see convincing evidence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think this is all placebo. The code was written by Google and not VZW. and it would be easier for VZW just to limit your connection on there end rather then send a code to turn it on, on the phone.
PLUS VZW knows that we can hack our phone and delete the code our self's so of course they would have a back up plan.
Great Busting of that myth. I figured that it was useless to an extent
Thanks for another great writeup byrong!
I have been assuming these modifications didn't do anything but never tested much between the two.
I'm inclined to agree with you. Logically, why would VZ throttle from the handset rather than from inside the network? However...
I have two brothers with the droid x and I have an incredible. One brother has complained of awful speeds lately, and they are pretty bad for him. I just started to notice it too. Now, I've begun to do some testing switching ROMs and such to see what happens. I normally run CM7 and about an hour ago was pulling .11Mbps where I have in the past had at least 1Mbps.
First, I tried the stock 2.2 PB31 zip file. I went through the initial wizard steps, started the market, added a secondary gmail account (not the one I normally use with my phone), and downloaded the speedtest app. No restoring, nothing. In that environment, I was getting bad speeds (can't recall if the .11 was back at CM7 or with stock sense). I wanted to try a ROM that included the throttle patch/fix/whatever. I did a full wipe and installed magnolia.
Same process as with stock, didn't install anything, just speedtest. Bam. 1.5+MBps consistently across 2-3 tests.
I'm flashing CM7 clean and will test it without installing anything. Now, I absolutely agree that a handset-side throttle makes no sense whatsoever, but something is going on that I can't account for...I'll have to try flashing something like skyraider, testing, then flashing the throttle remover and see how that goes, but CM is taking forever to boot...
UPDATE: OK, so CM7 finally booted and I was pulling 1-1.5Mbps. I restored my nandroid from earlier tonight before I went ROM crazy and I'm at 2.4Mbps down. Weirdnes...
johantheolive said:
UPDATE: OK, so CM7 finally booted and I was pulling 1-1.5Mbps. I restored my nandroid from earlier tonight before I went ROM crazy and I'm at 2.4Mbps down. Weirdnes...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that goes to show what many people experience and mistake for increased speed with the mod, thanks for sharing
I completely agree with you byrong, great write up and data.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
POQbum said:
I think that goes to show what many people experience and mistake for increased speed with the mod, thanks for sharing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but how do I account for pulling such miserable speeds at one point and adequate an hour later, in the same location? I tested this morning and am doing 2Mbps+. Something's not right somewhere, whether it's network congestion or throttling, but then again that's not really related to these client side 'fixes'. It's only been prevalent since the iphone release, which was when VZ came out with throttling the upper percentile of users...
johantheolive said:
I agree, but how do I account for pulling such miserable speeds at one point and adequate an hour later, in the same location? I tested this morning and am doing 2Mbps+. Something's not right somewhere, whether it's network congestion or throttling, but then again that's not really related to these client side 'fixes'. It's only been prevalent since the iphone release, which was when VZ came out with throttling the upper percentile of users...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could be any number of moment-to-moment variables that affect how RF signals propogate.
Simple stuff like weather can affect speed. It's likely there might had been a few users pulling a lot of data at that particular time to reduce that.
Without seeing what's actually causing the slowdowns it's easy to try and pin the problem on something it's not, but there's definitely a lot of variables when it comes to data speed over 3G on your phone so it could easily be something you haven't even thought of that was limiting the speed at that time.
Thanks guys - glad you appreciate the write-up.
I'm a skeptic, but I am completely open to being proven wrong on this topic (or any issue, really).
najaboy said:
Could be any number of moment-to-moment variables that affect how RF signals propogate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
POQbum said:
Without seeing what's actually causing the slowdowns it's easy to try and pin the problem on something it's not, but there's definitely a lot of variables when it comes to data speed over 3G on your phone so it could easily be something you haven't even thought of that was limiting the speed at that time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well stated, gents.
Our brains are amazing pattern recognition systems. The problem is that they try way too damn hard. It's why many people have superstitious beliefs and why Airborne continues to sell
Im not sure if it works or not but Im willing to try.
My company says they throttle at 100MB (yes, 100MB) so Im willing to try this out.
riahc3 said:
Im not sure if it works or not but Im willing to try.
My company says they throttle at 100MB (yes, 100MB) so Im willing to try this out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If, after such a clear and concise debunking, you're still not sure, there are some folks in Nigeria that are willing to make you a very rich individual.
I've had a slightly different experience. Before the DTR, I couldn't get above approx 1mbps down, however after I get about 3 on 3g, and 9 on my wifi.
Maybe it's just a freak occurrence, though.
omgjosho,
Thanks for chiming in. I'm very much interested to hear from people who believe they've seen results from DTR. In the interest of gathering more data, could you answer the following?
byrong said:
When you are not using DTR, do you see the throttle icon present in your notification bar? If the services.jar file really is the culprit, you should.
Have you ever been notified by VZW that you are being throttled?
How much data do you use in an average billing cycle?
Do you have more substantiation than a small handful of readings?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're the second person I've seen point to Wi-Fi speeds, but no carrier would have any interest in throttling your Wi-Fi. On the contrary, they would want to encourage Wi-Fi as it shifts demand for data off of their network.
Anything done on Wi-Fi is meaningless to Verizon. It doesn't count towards your monthly data usage.
byrong said:
omgjosho,
Thanks for chiming in. I'm very much interested to hear from people who believe they've seen results from DTR. In the interest of gathering more data, could you answer the following?
You're the second person I've seen point to Wi-Fi speeds, but no carrier would have any interest in throttling your Wi-Fi. On the contrary, they would want to encourage Wi-Fi as it shifts demand for data off of their network.
Anything done on Wi-Fi is meaningless to Verizon. It doesn't count towards your monthly data usage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah. Mostly a misread on my part then. I use somewhere between 500mb and 1gb a month. I've never noticed the throttling icon.
I understand what you're saying about the wifi part, but if it's a software data cap, theoretically it may not differentiate between wifi and 3g and cap the data throughput completely. I look at the DTR more like uncapping a cable modem as opposed to preventing the provider based throttle. So maybe I misunderstood. Simply posting the empirical evidence I had, the only difference was the 10 minutes it took to nandroid and flash the DTR. I was standing in the same spot in my house with the same amount of signal. *shrug*
omgjosho said:
I use somewhere between 500mb and 1gb a month.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's almost impossible to believe that Verizon is throttling you with that kind of data usage. That's less than 35mb per day: practically insignificant on their network. A couple email attachments, picture messages (not to mention video), some YouTube... the average person can consume that much data no problem.
If you were being throttled for that kind of usage, then almost every Verizon smartphone user would be actively throttled on a regular basis. The internet would be lit up like a Christmas tree with all of the complaints that people would post.
The top 5% of users may be throttled, but as AdhvanIt has shown, Verizon doesn't even consider >5gb of data in a billing cycle to reach the top 5%
I keep reading and reading, looking for the origins of all of this. I see people trying to use this mod on T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon, and Cricket. To add to the reading list, here's the oldest thread I've found so far:
Dec 7 - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=863923
I don't know when this quote was added to the original post, since it has been edited, but:
sino8r said:
SO FAR, THIS HAS ONLY BEEN KNOWN TO WORK ON T-MOBILE USA AND CANADA BELL... ALL OTHER CARRIERS SEEM TO HAVE THESE FILES JUST BECAUSE IT'S A STANDARD IN ANDROID 2.2.1 AND SEEM TO BE CONTROLLED COMPLETELY OTA UNLIKE TMOBILE AND BELL...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And in that thread it is stated that the mod no longer even works on T-Mobile: that it is "extinct."
It looks like Dec 26 is when people brought it to the Evo / Sprint world: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888372
I read through all of that second thread and from the very beginning people were doubting the effectiveness of the mod on the Sprint network, or frankly even the need for it. There are numerous posters in there showing 20-30gb of data usage with no throttle from Sprint even on stock services.jar
omgjosho said:
I've never noticed the throttling icon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which again, in and of itself, should indicate that the services.jar throttle function was not the cause of your speed fluctuations.
omgjosho said:
I understand what you're saying about the wifi part, but if it's a software data cap, theoretically it may not differentiate between wifi and 3g and cap the data throughput completely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theoretically.... I guess. But now we're moving beyond the realm of "ambiguous data" straight into "wild theory." Not even the developers of this mod ever claimed that it would influence Wi-Fi.
omgjosho said:
Simply posting the empirical evidence I had, the only difference was the 10 minutes it took to nandroid and flash the DTR. I was standing in the same spot in my house with the same amount of signal. *shrug*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But that's the thing: 10 minutes could certainly be an influencing factor. As noted by the other members, there are a lot of variables that go into 3G speeds: distance to tower, users connected to tower, time of day, weather, reception, geographical region, and so on.
Additionally, there are variables within the phone itself. Maybe before you flashed the DTR, your phone was using background internet services that slowed your speed test. Just one possible influence.
This is why I flashed back and forth between stock and DTR in my own testing: I wanted to minimize the potential influence of other variables by spreading the readings across time, location, and other conditions. I'm not saying your data is meaningless, just that it lacks the controls to consider it conclusive. I'm also not sure how many readings you took, so it's hard to judge the mathematical probability that the differences were chance.
I'm not particularly disagreeing with you here, as I'm near positive you've done much more research on the subject than I.
Truth be told, I got rid of the patch simply because I'm too lazy to update it when they release it, and it occasionally caused my 3g connection to take a dump. I'd prefer stability over faster speeds any day.
The thing is, until someone, anyone, can provide a test like byrong did except showing different results, then byrong is correct by default.
As far as I know, NO ONE has done this test other than him.
I've seen "one speed test shows dtr is faster".
I've seen "one speed test shows dtr is slower for me".
You have to do several tests, alternating, between dtr and non-dtr before you can say it works or not.
Is there actually throttle code in the phone? Yes.
Is the phone capable of throttling? Yes.
Does the dtr mod make the phone incapable of throttling? Yes.
Is the throttle code ever used? No. And unless you can provide a test like byrong's showing otherwise, then your opinion is not very valid.
I think android has the code as a generic function that providers could use if they wanted to.
As for the cable-box analogy, cable providers sell many different speeds. The cable box throttles you to your paid speed. Verizon sells 1 speed total, they have no need to throttle you with the device, everyone is the same.
Related
For starters i love this phones hardware. Almost all of the hardware specs of this phone are excellent. The 1ghz CPU by qualcom is a very good choice, but not quite a bleeding edge chip. Having a dedicated gpu would have been a better choice for the resolution and processing requirements of the other parts of the phone (gpu's can accelerate alot more than games).
512MB ram is a good choice and certainly enough for most needs. However ram is super duper cheap these days and i'd much rather have 1gb of good system ram than 1gb of extra storage space(which is what the evo gives us). the 4.3 inch screen is certainly sufficient, and in this space i dont think there really are much better panels resolution and aperture wise available.
I have certainly enjoyed playing with the 8MP camera in video and snapshot mode, but it also has its flaws. Being very sensitive to light the framerate (in video mode) can go from whats looks like(because i have no way of actually checking) lower 20's to less than 10 frames per second. Also while the 8MP sensor allows for nifty resolution it does not make for the cleanest image(in both video and snapshot mode). Due to lower quality optics being used and very little logic. I've found that flash also seems not to fire in correct sync with the (non mechanical IE FAKE)shutter of the camera sensor. Causing blurred images even with the flash on, I even attempted to circumvent this problem by manually setting the iso mode in the camera options to no avail. Also i really love the back facing camera and i would love it if i could actually use it for something.
I dont like fring its ugly and buggy, i dont like QIK. I dont know what it is, i just know i wont like it(J/K). It honestly never even occured to me that skype was not available for android yet (dont even mention that verizon peice of garbage). And it looks like we get it either until the end of the year. If even then (for video). I have had some opportunity to try out video on evo. And while some videos look good they are often not the right ratio and leave the screen largely empty. Some videos had obvious framerate & sound sync issues. Even on youtube. Let me go ahead and say i have not even played with HDMI, fm radio, or bluetooth. None of these do i really use, However i do like lots of extras and you cant go wrong with any of those. I tried only a few games out primarily raging thunder 2. I was not impressed by this games performance in the slightest. I would expect a 1ghz phone to be able to outperform atleast a Nintendo DS. I believe this part calls for a facepalm. I believe im supposed to thank HTC and their infinite wisdom for the 30FPS cap on the phone.
As for the 4G. I live in north dallas inbetween several major urban area in small residential housing area. Before signing up for my evo one quick trip to the sprint website and a little bit of address information would have me believe that im lit up like a christmas tree for miles all directions with 4G connectivity. Only after purchasing and bringing the phone home to realize i have no 4g connectivity at all do i back to the sprint website and go back to my coverage map. Yup see there i am all green, oh wait what is that? when i zoom in all the sudden the maps starts looking like swiss cheese. As i zoom all the way down my exact house do i see im not covered at all. Upon further testing i found that many areas that say they have 4G do not infact have 4G at all. After finding a 4G tower less than a mile away from my home. I drive to the tower to test my phones capability. Speedtest avarage download being 4300kbps or 430Kilobytes per second or about 4mbps. And upload averaging almost exactly 1000kbps or 100 Kilobytes per second or 1mbps. Well bellow the stated peak limit of 10mbps for downloads, and 1.8mbps peak of uploads. Mind you im sitting right beside this tower. I get much further from my home wifi. As i start driving, toward my house. I lose coverage in less than half a mile. Upon further consideration of this 4G technology i dont think its ever gonna work(right). I cant imagine them putting up enough towers to blanket a city yet alone suburbs or rural. There just is'nt enough real estate. I want to love this device, however this phone needs alot of love, and up against the onslaught on new phones just over the horizon, it needs it quick. Otherwise this could easily end up a dead end long before it ever reachs maturity. I have only owned my phone for 10 days. I will return it(if major upgrades dont happen soon) and go back to a peice of crap metroPCS phone for another six months while i wait for either this phone to get its act together or jump on one of the new LTE phones from the competition. Also i'd like to ask, what would you guys prefer a new single network connection combining all voice and data functions like the new LTE network verizon/metropcs is designing with possibly less bandwidth or a multiple network IE seperate voice and data connections with possibly more bandiwidth. Please consider all the known implications before replying. Lets keep this critiquing unbiased as possible please. If theres anything major please feel free to let me know.
And all i wanted was video conferencing.
Metathias
How did you locate the 4g tower closest to you?
notmike said:
How did you locate the 4g tower closest to you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I drove around till i got 4g signal Then meandered my way around following signal strength til i could see it. Never got full bars for 4g until i had line of sight. It was a big tower too. Still only covered about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile.
4g upload is capped at 1mb
where is the map you can zoom on? can't seem to find it.
supdawg said:
4g upload is capped at 1mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where does it say that? Mine is 1.3-1.6 normally
I can't believe I read...
that entire message. I must be off to wash my eyes!
Don't post stuff like this without an industry source. As far as I know, this is not true. I often get 1.7 in downtown Chicago.
supdawg said:
4g upload is capped at 1mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Read it.
GumboChief said:
Don't post stuff like this without an industry source. As far as I know, this is not true. I often get 1.7 in downtown Chicago.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's been mentioned by Sprint, Most Blog Sites, and Many other People. It has been shown on upload tests through SpeedTest, DSLReports, etc that its capped at 1MB or very close to it.
Please provide a screen shot of 1.7Mb/s upload as I have not seen that either and I have fast 4G where I live.
Here is from the developers site about cap.
http://developer.sprint.com/site/global/home/4g/wimax_experience/wimax_experience.jsp
Next time I am on Michigan & Randolph, I will run a test. I dont have it in my current log as I blanked my phone last week for whitslack rom.
mrmomoman said:
It's been mentioned by Sprint, Most Blog Sites, and Many other People. It has been shown on upload tests through SpeedTest, DSLReports, etc that its capped at 1MB or very close to it.
Please provide a screen shot of 1.7Mb/s upload as I have not seen that either and I have fast 4G where I live.
Here is from the developers site about cap.
http://developer.sprint.com/site/global/home/4g/wimax_experience/wimax_experience.jsp
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For those getting > 1mb, that may change in the future. I know 4G is capped at 1mb here.
supdawg said:
For those getting > 1mb, that may change in the future. I know 4G is capped at 1mb here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My speedtest was on June 17th, when going to see my eye doctor. I am really curious to check, now.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
So I know a lot of members here have 4G. I have experienced some 4G and have seen several videos and am just not impressed by the speeds. After some research on my end I found out just how fast WiMAX goes in other places such as Sweden which lead me to believe this is a Sprint issue for sure. Are you guys happy with your 4G speeds or do you want them to increase? Personally Sprint said something like 10x faster than 3G but I have only seen 2-3x faster.
Also - crazy story. The WiMAX network in Sweden was shut down after many people started complaining about headaches after it was turned on. It was reported that people some were hypersensitive to the WiMAX frequency that it operates on.
I'm ok with the speeds I get; however, I'm disappointed with the lack of consistency. In St. Louis I get anywhere from 2.5-3 Mbps down, but just across the river in Edwardsville, IL I was getting around 9 Mbps down on the tower on campus. I know the network load can't be that heavy in St. Louis to have such degraded performance.
werxen said:
Also - crazy story. The WiMAX network in Sweden was shut down after many people started complaining about headaches after it was turned on. It was reported that people some were hypersensitive to the WiMAX frequency that it operates on.
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Click to collapse
Do you have any links to this? I'm doing an industry analysis on cellular telecommunications and another on Sprint and this would definitely be good information on external threats.
Wow... Yeah here's the link:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1038429/swedish-town-blighted-wimax
I had another video or something... I forget where I found it originally but that is pretty much the same thing. Anyway as far as I can remember WiMAX has been permanently shut down in Sweden pending further investigation last I heard.
That is nuts. I know there's a Wal-Mart in Granite City that has a radio right outside its doors and the hundreds of people that pass through there each day have no problems.
I have two things to ponder on this:
1. Since this is such a small town in Sweden, I wonder if they just haven't acclimated to having cellular freqencies in their area...which I find unlikely.
2. Or, since this IS such a small town, they don't want the WiMax radio making their quaint little town "ugly" and orchestrated a phony mass effect after they started the services. I wouldn't throw this out of the window...small town people are crazy.
You have to think of how strange of an anomoly this actually is. Millions of people have been exposed to these frequencies for years, and for such a small sample of people out of the population congregated so densly together is really really really odd. I mean, the people who developed these systems have been exposed to WiMax for years. I would think any negative effects would have been brought up by now.
topdawgn8 said:
...small town people are crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHAHA
That's only funny because it's true
topdawgn8 said:
That is nuts. I know there's a Wal-Mart in Granite City that has a radio right outside its doors and the hundreds of people that pass through there each day have no problems.
I have two things to ponder on this:
1. Since this is such a small town in Sweden, I wonder if they just haven't acclimated to having cellular freqencies in their area...which I find unlikely.
2. Or, since this IS such a small town, they don't want the WiMax radio making their quaint little town "ugly" and orchestrated a phony mass effect after they started the services. I wouldn't throw this out of the window...small town people are crazy.
You have to think of how strange of an anomoly this actually is. Millions of people have been exposed to these frequencies for years, and for such a small sample of people out of the population congregated so densly together is really really really odd. I mean, the people who developed these systems have been exposed to WiMax for years. I would think any negative effects would have been brought up by now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bring up good points. The only thing I can think of is how much data is being transferred using WiMAX. While my knowledge is not sophisticated enough in wireless technologies to make an accurate assumption on what exactly is going on, I do remember that the WiMAX they had in Sweden was transferring data at ridiculous speeds - somewhere like 50mbits. Could the actual throughput speed cause a variation in frequencies or is speed not a factor in it at all? That is the only thing I can really think of...
What I also know is that Sweden has LTE technology and they have had no complaints about that - on a side note lets not dive into conspiracy theories. Also, Sweden is very technologically advanced when it comes to internet and wireless technologies. My friend gets 100/100mbit connections to his home for $15 USD. *rage face*
I'm ok with the downstream speeds. Upstream could use a boost--I mean I can almost hit 1 up with 3g.
My biggest issue is how poorly wimax penetrates buildings. I can regularly get 10/1 in Astoria if I'm on the street. Walk 20 feet into a bar and I'm only getting 1 down. Meanwhile I can get 1.5+ down on 3g without moving an inch.
Yeah, I'm going to recind my second statement. Apparently there is 3% of the population that are sensitive to EMR as per the WHO.
As for the throughput being an issue, I don't think this is the case. The EMR is there regardless of whether or not it is in an active data transfer (think of it as your wifi router at home, constantly broadcasting.) Then again, maybe I'm wrong, our phones as a mobile host may "wake" an idle tower upon request.
Just a few things...
In Sweden they are using 5.8GHz for their Wimax, here in the US it's 2.4GHz. The higher the frequency the more data you can pack within a single wave. The US has tighter MPE (Maximum Permissible Exposure) Limits. So here in the US power limits are lower. Wifi also shares part of the 2.4GHz spectrum. Notice you do not get that great range. Most WiFi units only put out in the range of 50-150mW of power. The standard antenna has about 1-2db gain(if you are lucky). Now on a tower the antennas they are using average about 20-30db gain, and transmitters (depending on the height) from 10-100W. In essence Wimax is WiFi on steroids. Until more towers go online you are going to have crappy reception. Unless the tower is within about a block or two your reception is going to suck in most structures. Another thing to point out, as your reception goes down, your transmission speed does as well (to not drop bits, and have to retransmit the packet).
Eh. I understand why people would want INCREDIBLY FAST 4G speeds... but honestly, I think our 4G is pretty good. There is nothing I can do on my phone that requires anything faster than what I get. I dont know about you, but I get pretty good speeds. I've downloaded 170MB roms for my EVO with 4G and I was damn impressed.
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Yeah it's an Epic but I'm pretty sure the Evo get's the same speeds. I just never ran speed test on my EVO. This was inside a building in King of Prussia, PA.
So far I am not impressed. I also live in the St. Louis area. I've tested my 4G speeds in several areas around here as well as Kansas City and I consistently get between 1.5-1.7M download speed, hardly the 10X faster Sprint likes to advertise.
Don't get me wrong, the 4G is nice, but not fast enough to justify the battery drain. My browser is plenty fast on 3G and I can get a day out of my charge compared to 5-6 hours with my 4G radio turned on.
Not that bad for me in the Orlando area, note the signal strength.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Wow impressive speeds indeed. I wish they would figure out a way to get lower frequencies on these phones. I think that makes the biggest impact on overall speeds.
was getting 7-8mbps myself.
And i would go nuts over 50mbps. Not for phone, but for clear network. Have it setup atm, but only getting 3-5mps on it. Unfortunately the house i'm located can't get signal from at&t nor verizon, or any other dsl supplier. They blame each other for it too, if i call verizon, they say i'm in the at&t's area, and they should be doing it, if i call at&t, they say the opposite.
But yea, for a phone you don't need 50mbps, nor would you need more than 3-5mbps. Unless you are downloading gigabytes of torrents on your phone.
For anyone who cares to light a fire under Sprint's feet in a very, very public forum that's all but certain to get the attention of Sprint's upper management, check out one of today's lead stories on Slashdot: http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10...nt-Epic4G-3G-Upload-Speeds-Limited-To-150kbps
In some really high signal areas I'm able to go up to 175-180 kbps. This leads me to believe there is no software cap on the phone. The modem driver is just so poorly written. It takes up too many resources and slows down my phone when running Speed Test.
Good. I have a feeling the only hope we have of Sprint or Samsung addressing this issue is for there to be enough public outcry.
arashed31 said:
In some really high signal areas I'm able to go up to 175-180 kbps. This leads me to believe there is no software cap on the phone. The modem driver is just so poorly written. It takes up too many resources and slows down my phone when running Speed Test.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can tell the phone is TRYING to hit speeds higher than that... but there is a cap limiting it. No matter how fast your download is, the upload always maxes at an AVERAGE of 150.
I'm amazed by how dumb a lot of the commenters on slashdot are. They seem to think that 150 KBits/sec = 150KB/sec...
RE: Nexus S vs i9000m pointer review
this originally came from a PM
thequinox said:
I've seen you're a pretty active in the forums so I was wondering if I could borrow a minute of your time.
I noticed in your posts that you've said you preferred your SGS over your NS. Could you tell me why? I am thinking of moving over from Rogers to Wind and grabbing myself a NS.
I mean, really they are the same phones, so is it the TouchWiz experience you miss? Or did you use your phone for a lot of multimedia?
I'm a very technical person, so you don't have to dumb down your answer. I hope you can get back to me. Thanks for your time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WIND is way worth it ($40 all you can eat), at least in the GTA area
not sure how is the reception over around your area, but it should definitely considered.
I was on FIDO until just a couple of weeks ago, heck i still need to cancel my FIDO account, but the plan was simply too sweet to resist so i made the jump
..and no i definitely did not switch carrier because of the phone, it's rather the other way around.
After being "forced" to WIND (peer pressure), no, not really, i'm paying at least $60 less with 2 PHONES with ALL features, than 2 phones on FIDO with LESS options, and DATA only in 1 phone, it'd have been stupid not to take the WIND plan
but that was my best and worst move at the same time.
I totally forgot about the PHONEs that i can use on an AWS network, you need both 1700+2100 to properly get 3G, it wont work if you only have 1 band
So, i was screwed in that regard, I really like my SGS even with all its flaws it still beats the SNS
They are yes essentially the same phone with minor differences, yet the one that is killing me the most is the lack of microSD support, and no MKV, DivX, AVI support on hardware
yes 2.3 is nice, but it's more buggy than 2.2
yes it has flash for the camera, but it's totally useless for outdoor pictures, it might be okay if you are in a party room
yes it has NFC, but... no one in America is using it at all, this new feature it is completely wasted, until some form of Advertising Media Marketing, makes use of them, and make Movie Posters interactive, or until supermarket starts tagging their boxes and cans with NFC tags to scan the prices... which basically means, it's absolutely useless, as there will be no retailers willing to spend that kind of money on useless electronic tags, when the good old bar code is so much more efficient.
i'll trade NFC over microSD any time.
playing movies, animes, foreign films with subtitles and without Hardware decoding on the SNS really sucks, performance and video quality wise
oh by the way no hardware support for 720p on the SNS
same mic recording audio gain bug found on the SGS, in the SNS
GPS works on the SNS, but the same i'll say about the SGS, never had any problem with the GPS on the SGS
battery life on the SNS is better than the SGS, even tough it uses a crappier battery
very little accessories available for the SNS on ebay, etc
LauncherPRO has always been my main launcher, don't like stock android, and totally despise TWlauncher
what i miss the most in the SNS that was also build in in SGS is the front facing chat phone calls, yes the SNS has FFC, but it has no support to use FFC for normal phone calls
it only works via 3rd party apps like Fring, Yahoo, Tango, etc.... which totally kills the point of having a FFC for regular phone calls
that was possible in the SGS
... there are alot more i can go on for, but those are the basic main issues that annoys the most, coming from a SGS experience
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thank you gamer , nice review .. thumbs up
i m cooo with my sgs
The SGS does support UMTS video calls (what you call normal phone call) but Bell charges an extra $5/month for it so nobody has it. Plus, who can you call with that feature? Your other friend with a SGS?
no one said SGS doesn't
it is the SNS that is missing the stock video dialer to use that feature
and you can call anyone with a video chat capable phone, it doesn't need to be SGS
the old "dumb" phones (nokia, samsung, LG) that are video capable works as well
yeah, as long as they pay $5/month
I think this technology was popular in Japan but I have never seen someone using it in Canada
Wind Mobile
Thanks for the reply AllGamer.
I find myself in EXACTLY the same situation as you! Haha. I live in Edmonton and I just HAD to try out this $40 all you can eat plan from wind. I've got an i9000m unlocked and on Rogers and I love it. The GPS is it's main flaw though, it's pretty terrible and sure I get pissed at it when I try and use it, but it's not a big enough deal for me to want a new phone right now. I also hate TouchWizz and use ADW exclusively.
Anyway, I bought this cheap Alcatel with the $40 plan from wind here to try out their network. I figure if I don't like it I can return the phone and just be out the one month plan fee, and if I do like it I can use the phone in the interim until I get an AWS compatible phone. I just had to jump on it now because the $40 Holiday Miracle plan expires tomorrow.
I've only had the phone half the day now, and the reception doesn't seem too bad. I'll have to move around the city and stuff a lot more to get a real sample though. If Wind is able to deliver I should be able to save at least %50 every month once I ditch my Rogers plan.
I ran some speed tests here at work and I didn't really care for the results though. This is the only place I've tested, so it could be this tower or something, I'll have to test more to know for sure. Anyway, I'm getting:
Rogers w/GT-i9000m:
Down - Up
1884 - 1148
2944 - 1237
2567 - 1244
3291 - 1242
*Wind w/OT-981A:
Down - Up
1749 - 159
1280 - 156
1575 - 159
1529 - 159
I can live with 1.5Mpbs down, that's not to bad, but the upload is terrible! I called customer support to ask if they had some sort of upload cap in place, but they said they've never heard anything like that. I'll try some other places around the city and post back the results.
I really want to like Wind, or more, my wallet really likes to want Wind XD
Anyway, I kind of got off topic here, the reason I asked the initial question is because if I do move to wind I'll have to part with my SGS. The SNS seems like the logical way to go, but I've heard bad things about the quality control and as you know, living in Canada, we can't exactly easily exchange it at Best Buy.
I don't think the MicroSD would be a huge deal, but I don't really like not having it either. I agree, the multimedia support would be a pain to give up. If Samsung did one thing right, it's the great codec support on the SGS. As for the rest of TW and the crippled samsungafied Google apps... they can go.
One of the reasons I really liked the SGS was the multimedia support, but I found I didn't really use it. One of the reasons is all my stuff is in 720 MKV and while the SGS can play those files locally, Allshare is incapable of streaming anything in an MKV container. This is a huge drag and as a result I never gave it much use. The 720p camera recording is also nice but again, I have no way of outputting 720p. It would be nice if it had mHDMI out, but now I'm just dreaming XD. BTW, does the SNS support video out through composite like the SGS?
I already have a pretty good feel of what I'm getting into if I get a SNS, but I like hearing real world things from users. You can't tell everything from specs, it really is about the experience. My biggest fear is getting a defective one. Pop into the SNS forums here on XDA and it becomes apparent quite quickly that there are problems with a lot of them.
*Update: I just noticed the the Android SpeedTest.net app is not pulling the Wind phone's location properly. My SGS on Rogers is testing with a server right here in Edmonton. The Alcatel is trying to use a server in... Virginia . That could certainly lead to some extra latency XD. Edmonton isn't available in the server list, so I'll try and find a more reliable way of comparing. Perhaps a different app will let me manually input a server IP to test with.
Do you find Wind's Fair Usage Policy unfair? Isn't unlimited, unlimited, not capped?
Wind Mobile said:
To ensure our customers enjoy optimal data usage on our network, we have a Fair Usage Policy. Our Fair
Usage Policy is that if you exceed 5 gigabytes of data usage within a given billing cycle, we may slow your
speed so that all WIND customers can better share the network and enjoy quality access to the Internet.
If we elect to do so, we will slow your speeds from a maximum speed of 7.2 megabits per second to a
maximum speed of 512 kilobits per second for downloads and 128 kilobits per second for uploads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think when my Telus contract is up (November, 2012) I will have a lot of choices at a lot less money.
Ian
re: wind fair usage policy
yes, it's not really unlimited data, it's 5 GB
they won't really cap you off if you go over, i think they do it on a case by case basis, as in they'll look at the ports you have been using the most, and if any of those falls into File sharing then they will most likely cap you
w98seeng said:
Do you find Wind's Fair Usage Policy unfair? Isn't unlimited, unlimited, not capped?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@thequinox
re: speedtest.net
in the GTA i constantly get 2.8 Mbps down, and 800 Kbps up in many areas of the city
very decent if you ask me
same results using both SNS and XT720
re: video out on the SNS
yes, it is supported, and using the same cable as the SGS (Nokia something something, forgot model #)
re: manufacture issues...
is very hard to say, i got lucky i guess
if you don't want to run the risk, go to your local phone shops, usually those chinese or indian cell phone stores in the malls sells them at a bit high ($700-$800) but at least you can check out the phone in person, and not have to run the risk of buying it from Best Buy USA
Wind Mobile in Edmonton
Yes, no one's unlimited plan is ever unlimited, but 5GB is pretty decent if you ask me. The cap doesn't seem like it would really hurt though, as I can't get uploads higher than 0.15Mbps anyway.
I found out what was going on with the speed test. Apparently Wind's data access comes from Ontario, and SpeedTest.net determines where you are based on IP location. If you connect with WiFi it will give you a server in your area, then you can just switch to 3G and complete the test with that server. I did this and tested with an Edmonton server... 1.75Mbps down and 0.14 up. About the same. Again, respectable download, abysmal upload.
I still need to run speed tests in more areas, but this part of the city is where I live and work, so it matters the most to me. I can't help but feel there is a cap here. I never get more or less than 0.15Mpbs up.
Another issue I've seen is my data just cutting out. I'll have full bars but just no 3G access. Sometimes a power cycle brings it back, sometimes I just have to wait. Seems to only happen when I'm at home though, so it must be something wrong with the AP i'm near.
A Google search shows I'm not alone in this upload problem. A shame
in the case of WIND mobile i switched more due their unlimited talk plans, and unlimited long distance, and unlimited word wide SMS, also all their HOME ZONES in different Cities that attracted me the most
the unlimited internet was just the cherry on top of the icing
on FIDO/ROGERS i was paying just about the same for the 6 GB data package
so i might be 1 GB down from data, but i gained a lot more on the useful stuff
thequinox said:
but 5GB is pretty decent if you ask me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely, I agree. I have a 500MB plan and I never go over 175Mb/month. My only problem is when a company says one thing and the fine print says another.
I would just like a little honesty in corporate policies.
my average is aprox 3 GB a month
A bit unrelated but cud anyone help
I have the Motorola Xt720 that Wind provides, but now i see they have the newer Samsung Nexus S, and i'm considering swapping phones, but should I?
I have looked at the pros and cons, but the 2 phones are better and worse than each other on different fields and to me seem to balance out oddly. like the xt720 has sd card while the SNS doesn't but has a significantly bigger internal memory, which means more apps and stuff, i find that on my moto that i constantly run low in internal memory due to too many apps. SNS runs 2.3 and the xt720 runs 2.1; however, if i root my xt720 i could update it to 2.2 (which i hear is less glitcher than 2.3), but I'd void my warranty. the camera on the xt720 is much better, not sure about the video though. The SNS i see covers more video format though, and seems to have a longer battery life. I find myself having to constantly charge my Motorola if i use it moderately and it easily over-heats which leads to more battery consumption. but that SD card thing for the SNS is the real con for me, i have a few vidoes, but I am heavy on music. But at the same time i want more apps...
So essentially I have 3 choices:
-Keep my xt720 the way it is and get on with life
-Root my Xt720 and upgrade to 2.2 or
-Get the Samsung Nexus S
I'm really confused D': , and would really appreciate help on the subject, also if there is an x-factor that I'm missing (either good or bad) i want to know about it. What do you guys think? oh, and in case anyone was wondering i have the irresistable plan
I know all Atrix users are having problems with slower data connections than using, say the iPhone 4. So I went ahead and did a quick video of, iPhone 4 and Verizon LG Vortex to show the speed difference. Clearly you can see that the Atrix is very slow in uploading, but overall was pretty close in download speeds with the iPhone 4. I have been averaging around 2.2 Mps down and .31 upload. Overall when using the Atrix phone to look up anything in the Market place or web browsing, and or using a app that requires data, it feels much faster overall. Could be that the Dual-Core is helping in this. My next video will be, comparing on the phone browsing and using data apps to compare.
Here is the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA72kfo856w
Ya shouldn't run both ATT phones at the same time.
zephxiii said:
Ya shouldn't run both ATT phones at the same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why its a fair real work comparison that way. No one is going to be the only one running a connection at any give time.
Sent from my Delorean using a flux capacitor!
compumasta said:
Why its a fair real work comparison that way. No one is going to be the only one running a connection at any give time.
Sent from my Delorean using a flux capacitor!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are interested in testing the device's ultimate speed, you shouldn't be running the test at the same time right next to each other period. That causes channel interference (if on same carrier) which degrades performance, not to mention you are cutting available air interface resources in half in on the same channel/sector. That is not going to tell you jack **** about how the device performs (as far as above average potential) in comparison to another device on the same network...it only really shows how each device handles data in a crappy signal situation....interestingly ATT was better than VZW.
It has been demonstrated that the Atrix lacks HSUPA and will generally not perform as well as iPhone4 (or other HSUPA enabled device) until this problem is resolved.
zephxiii said:
If you are interested in testing the device's ultimate speed, you shouldn't be running the test at the same time right next to each other period. That causes channel interference (if on same carrier) which degrades performance, not to mention you are cutting available air interface resources in half in on the same channel/sector. That is not going to tell you jack **** about how the device performs (as far as above average potential) in comparison to another device on the same network...it only really shows how each device handles data in a crappy signal situation....interestingly ATT was better than VZW.
It has been demonstrated that the Atrix lacks HSUPA and will generally not perform as well as iPhone4 (or other HSUPA enabled device) until this problem is resolved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you misunderstood what he's saying. In the real world, you could be standing next to someone else using an AT&T phone, so that interference isn't unexpected. How the device handles that kind of interference is absolutely relevant information.
Ririal said:
I think you misunderstood what he's saying. In the real world, you could be standing next to someone else using an AT&T phone, so that interference isn't unexpected. How the device handles that kind of interference is absolutely relevant information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the real world, he probably isn't running a speedtest right when you are.
It's still pointless as if you are trying to compare device speeds on the network, you need to give them ideal conditions....otherwise you aren't comparing the devices really. This is obvious because it isn't showing the Atrix's crippled network interface.
zephxiii said:
In the real world, he probably isn't running a speedtest right when you are.
It's still pointless as if you are trying to compare device speeds on the network, you need to give them ideal conditions....otherwise you aren't comparing the devices really. This is obvious because it isn't showing the Atrix's crippled network interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not even sure I understand what you're arguing. Someone next to you is not using a data connection if they're not running a speedtest? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. The speed of the phone next to you is irrelevant. A phone pulling down 1000Mbps as opposed to 100Mbps won't magically decrease the surrounding signal. In modern devices, channel interference like that isn't really a problem anyway.
Ririal said:
I'm not even sure I understand what you're arguing. Someone next to you is not using a data connection if they're not running a speedtest? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. The speed of the phone next to you is irrelevant. A phone pulling down 1000Mbps as opposed to 100Mbps won't magically decrease the surrounding signal. In modern devices, channel interference like that isn't really a problem anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on that statement, it looks like you really don't understand how WCDMA (or CDMA based) networks work. Channel noise, noise floor, neighboring interference etc. plays a huge part in network performance. So yes, even though signal receive strength may be very good, performance can suffer from channel noise...and I see it all the time in cell overlap areas (I live in one even).
And when you have two devices like that operating right next to each other using the same ARFCN, especially if one is in the upload portion of the test, it's going to create additional noise that the other device is going to have to fight through....then throw on top that both devices are fighting for whatever is left of free resources on the site..which is basically cutting whatever is left in half....if they are on the same sector/channel.
zephxiii said:
Based on that statement, it looks like you really don't understand how WCDMA (or CDMA based) networks work. Channel noise, noise floor, neighboring interference etc. plays a huge part in network performance. So yes, even though signal receive strength may be very good, performance can suffer from channel noise...and I see it all the time in cell overlap areas (I live in one even).
And when you have two devices like that operating right next to each other using the same ARFCN, especially if one is in the upload portion of the test, it's going to create additional noise that the other device is going to have to fight through....then throw on top that both devices are fighting for whatever is left of free resources on the site..which is basically cutting whatever is left in half....if they are on the same sector/channel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the theory, I've just never seen it affect a device in practice to any noticeable degree. I might get 3.15 down with no other devices nearby, and 3.14 down with several others running at once (GSM and CDMA devices).
Living in an area with several carriers fighting for the airways can impact performance, but again, I've never seen a big enough difference to care. Maybe you've just been in areas with outdated hardware or poor filtering. This is all from personal experience, however, and I live in Chicagoland where there is no shortage of service from any carrier.
I know some have said that having all 3 devices and running the test can affect the performances when running data. I was hoping to try to run a test that could show what would happen if you were out and happen to be close to other smartphones that might be accessing data.
I will post another video showing how the data performance is, by running the speed test one at a time. I did try that today, and I can say that whether I had all three running at the same time or run speed test one at a time, the speeds didn't not change much; maybe only .04 difference. So having all three running the speed test would only affect around .04 to .06 difference in download speed.
I will also do a test to compare the speed to open browser and going to websites.
Also when I was doing the speed test today with my Atrix, I was using it as a mobile hot spot to provide internet to my Samsung Galaxy Tab, and the download speeds on the Atrix was very good. I got around 3.0 Mbps down and .29 Mbps upload; which is very slow compared to my iPhone 4. Hopefully soon this will be fixed.
So in real world situations if others around me are using their phones/data I shouldn't judge how my phone performs based on that? Individual testing is fantastic, but I'm rarely the only person in the room with an AT&T smartphone so it's not practical. Everyday use throughout the day (speedtest app or not) is the only real way to judge data performance in my book.
Besides, the speedtest app can go from 1.2 to 3.4 to .08mbps in 3 consecutive tests. It's all over the place.
For browsing the Atrix should open pages quicker because the processor will help out along with the network speeds.