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"FAIL"-phone slower than other phones? Despite Snapdragon?

Looks like HTC has done it again and delivered a phone that should run crazy fast on paper BUT the actual performance is sub-par compared to other phones:
HTC Nexus One (FAILphone):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvzxZ8tOBcQ
HTC Magic and HTC Liquid Benchmark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O36LA6EhZg4

I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.

Do you work for Apple?

How does it do on PiBenchmark? That would provide more relevant results with its Snapdragon processor.

andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
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doesn't the liquid come with an underclocked snapdragon?

I have a Magic that is rooted and tweaked to all hell and have played with the nexus. There is no doubt that the Google phone out performs any other phone that HTC has released. Ive seen it first hand. Its very fast and can handle so many things going on at the same time it makes my tummy tickle.

You are an idiot. Get your panties out of a bunch because you are pissed at the price and that it has no AT&T 3G. Should we all be pissed that the Droid only works on Verizon? Should we all be pissed that the iPhone only has AT&T 3G? The Nexus One is designed to be on T-Mobile. Sure, it will technically work on any GSM provider, but that isn't what it was intended to do. Google must have some deal with T-Mobile since they offers the most android phones.
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU

staulkor said:
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU
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I thought neocore tested the graphics chip with 3d benchamarking?

andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
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It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?

What are you, 15 years old? Get off of mommy's computer and stop *****ing because you can't use the N1 on your network and get 3G.

Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.

Maedhros said:
Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.
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Actually ... it goes nicely with HTC's track record of under-performing hardware.

We have too many variables that makes comparing these results difficult. The HTC Magic and Liquid are running 1.6, while the Nexus is running 2.1. There are dramatically different levels of overhead on different Android system versions. There could be way more overhead on Android 2.1 than on 1.6. Additionally, you forgot to mention that the Nexus One is running at a resolution 2.5 times that of the HTC Magic.
Just because you're not going to buy the Nexus (because you recently purchased another handset and are trying to justify your purchase, or because it doesn't support your carrier's 3G frequencies, or otherwise) doesn't mean you are obliged to spam these forums with "OMG THIS PHONE IS FAIL"

the resolution used on the n1 is far higher than on the older devices remember

coolVariable said:
It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?
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The only FAIL here are your posts. You sound like a Droid owner, pissed that your phone is about to lose top dog status. Just crawl back into your parents basement, fire up your xbox, and shoot some 12 year olds. It will help you get over the fact that you are a huge FAIL.

lol @semantics now thats funny man

I have had this phone for three weeks now and one thing its not is SLOW. Its way faster than my 3GS and my Mytouch.

I got 27.4 FPS on my G1.
I'm pretty sure the N1 isn't slower then the G1. That would be stupid.

I don't give a damn, I'm buying this joint day 1!! LOL

my theory:
1. Neocore is designed to work with android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1
2. The Liquid A1 has the same processor (albeit underclocked) and the same screen resolution as the N1 so you would expect them to perform similarliy. They dont perfrom the same so you must look at the differences between the phones. The biggest to me is the fact that the Liquid A1 has Android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1, the sweet spot for Neocore.
3. The N1 had Android 2.1 and Open GL ES 2.0, specs that are not supported by Neocore. How can Neocore accurately test the N1 when it does not support its specifications? The slowness is not due to poor hardware, rather it is due to old software trying to run on the latest hardware.

Overclock?

Is anyone aware of over clocking on the hummingbird? 45nm process cpu should be an advantage.
Posted from a T-mobile G1 cyanogen ROM. This platform has reached its limits, my contract has reached its end, t-mo and HTC have failed to produce a suitable replacement. Epic here I come!
5years+ with t-mo.

Overclocking a 1GHz processor is hardly worth it, unless its used with underclocking for battery life.
I'm really sad there won't be any Cyanogenmod for any of the Samsung phones. I'm hoping he has a change of heart.... Otherwise I'm just looking for a good rom.
T-Mobile has horrible coverage in my area. Need me some epic!

We can go from 1000 MHz to 1300 MHz with 65nm CPU.Since its a 45nm CPU we should be able to get 300 to 1000 more MHz with a kernel with voltage increase. The galaxy s 2 has 2000 MHz CPU with 45nm processor.

Cyanogen
Is it confirmed that cyanogen won't do samsung? This seems to be the most widely distributed Android superphone ever.

NeonMonster said:
I'm really sad there won't be any Cyanogenmod for any of the Samsung phones. I'm hoping he has a change of heart.... Otherwise I'm just looking for a good rom.
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Where did you get this? You should post a source link if you're going to make such statements.
There are already developers working on CM6 for the Vibrant and the Captivate: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=729364
Once a member of the team has an Epic, we'll have a port also.

shep211 said:
We can go from 1000 MHz to 1300 MHz with 65nm CPU.Since its a 45nm CPU we should be able to get 300 to 1000 more MHz with a kernel with voltage increase. The galaxy s 2 has 2000 MHz CPU with 45nm processor.
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Are we going to be able to get past 1.6 ghz ?
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

I bet we will pretty easily, but nobody really knows at this point. The only similar processors are in the iPad, iPhone 4 and DROID X, and all those devices are locked down pretty hard. I think the Galaxy is going to show whether or not this chip can actually be overclocked.
I wouldn't be too suprised to see 2ghz, although I think the most anybody would actually want on their phone is about 1.6.

karnovaran said:
Where did you get this? You should post a source link if you're going to make such statements.
There are already developers working on CM6 for the Vibrant and the Captivate: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=729364
Once a member of the team has an Epic, we'll have a port also.
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Argh. Made me have to go searching through his twitter timeline.... -__-;;;
Everyone is asking about CM on new Samsung phones.. I don't have any plans for it myself, but I'd love to see it.
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http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/18500141823
Now, I know that doesn't mean CM WON'T be on the Epic, (Which i'm glad some devs are taking on porting it to the Galaxy lineup) but what I said, was referring to when he stated he "didn't have any plans for it".
Maybe I took that statement too literally, but if that is untrue, having CM on the Epic would make it just about perfect!

bycoo222 said:
Are we going to be able to get past 1.6 ghz ?
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
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Seems like 1.6 might be pushing the limits.
I for one will attempt to fork CM my self for the Epic once we have root and recovery.

Kcarpenter said:
Seems like 1.6 might be pushing the limits.
I for one will attempt to fork CM my self for the Epic once we have root and recovery.
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Why is 1.6 ghz pushing the limit? I did some research and it seems the Motorola droid can go to 1.3 or 1.5 ghz without issues and is potentially going to be OCed to 1.8ghz in the not too distant future, if it hasn't been already. Now if you take into account that the Droid uses the old TI OMAP 3430 processor, which is a Cortex A8 architecture processor made on the 65nm process and the Hummingbird processor in the Galaxy S phones is also a cortex A8 but made at the 45nm process, it sounds like 1.6ghz is definitely doable, maybe on the high end for reasonable every day use, but 2 ghz definitely sounds feasible to me at this point. However only time will tell. This definitely justifies the idea of a 2 ghz phone being released before the end of the year though. It will just require high binned processors.

Cyanogen strikes me as the type of guy where if the phone was sitting in front of him he would be helpless to resist tinkering with it.
We may want to start a pool to buy him one.

ben7337 said:
Why is 1.6 ghz pushing the limit? I did some research and it seems the Motorola droid can go to 1.3 or 1.5 ghz without issues and is potentially going to be OCed to 1.8ghz in the not too distant future, if it hasn't been already. Now if you take into account that the Droid uses the old TI OMAP 3430 processor, which is a Cortex A8 architecture processor made on the 65nm process and the Hummingbird processor in the Galaxy S phones is also a cortex A8 but made at the 45nm process, it sounds like 1.6ghz is definitely doable, maybe on the high end for reasonable every day use, but 2 ghz definitely sounds feasible to me at this point. However only time will tell. This definitely justifies the idea of a 2 ghz phone being released before the end of the year though. It will just require high binned processors.
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I think 2 ghz is feasible as well since the are already pushing the new cpu to 2 ghz in the galaxy s 2. It really all depends on the cooling system in the epic 4g. If it can cool the cpu enough i see no reason why we cant hit 2 ghz. I just hope they didnt screw up the cooling with the added keyboard. It would suck to see all galaxy s lines running at 2 ghz but the epic held back by the changes for the keyboard.

NeonMonster said:
Argh. Made me have to go searching through his twitter timeline.... -__-;;;
http://twitter.com/cyanogen/status/18500141823
Now, I know that doesn't mean CM WON'T be on the Epic, (Which i'm glad some devs are taking on porting it to the Galaxy lineup) but what I said, was referring to when he stated he "didn't have any plans for it".
Maybe I took that statement too literally, but if that is untrue, having CM on the Epic would make it just about perfect!
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Ha, no worries. I saw that tweet too and came away thinking, "he's not going to rush out and buy the phone, but he's more than willing to help another developer port CM to it."
I don't think there should be any concern about whether or not CM will be ported. The big question will be what complications arise from the extra features of the Epic, like the keyboard, 4G radio, LED, etc.

karnovaran said:
Ha, no worries. I saw that tweet too and came away thinking, "he's not going to rush out and buy the phone, but he's more than willing to help another developer port CM to it."
I don't think there should be any concern about whether or not CM will be ported. The big question will be what complications arise from the extra features of the Epic, like the keyboard, 4G radio, LED, etc.
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There is cm6 for the evo so there should be no issue with 4g by the time the epic is out. cm6 for the evo is in beta but runs good on my evo.

Pops_G said:
Cyanogen strikes me as the type of guy where if the phone was sitting in front of him he would be helpless to resist tinkering with it.
We may want to start a pool to buy him one.
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Thats a good idea. I am going to ask him if we got him a epic if he would work on cm6 for us. I can pitch in $50 or more.

shep211 said:
Thats a good idea. I am going to ask him if we got him a epic if he would work on cm6 for us. I can pitch in $50 or more.
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Yeah! I was actually thinking this too awhile ago.
If we got a donation up and running, I could donate maybe 20-30 bucks toward getting him a Epic IF he promises to make a super awesome rom for it!

ben7337 said:
Why is 1.6 ghz pushing the limit? I did some research and it seems the Motorola droid can go to 1.3 or 1.5 ghz without issues and is potentially going to be OCed to 1.8ghz in the not too distant future, if it hasn't been already. Now if you take into account that the Droid uses the old TI OMAP 3430 processor, which is a Cortex A8 architecture processor made on the 65nm process and the Hummingbird processor in the Galaxy S phones is also a cortex A8 but made at the 45nm process, it sounds like 1.6ghz is definitely doable, maybe on the high end for reasonable every day use, but 2 ghz definitely sounds feasible to me at this point. However only time will tell. This definitely justifies the idea of a 2 ghz phone being released before the end of the year though. It will just require high binned processors.
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Well put.

THere will not be 2ghz phones for a very long time. Apple choose to clock the iPhone 4 at around 700mhz even though it is fully capable of doing 1GHz. There are going to be power consumption concerns, the galaxy and droid x cna get away with 1ghz because of the large batteries but smaller phones will probably need to be underclocked. A phone running at 2ghz will use significantly more than twice as much power as the galaxy s, and that just isn't practical on a phone.
Snapdragon seems to be able to achieve higher clock speeds, but it also seems to be less efficient per clock, judging by how the droid x and galaxy s are both faster than the identically clocked EVO and N1. So maybe we will see snapdragons in the 1.5ghz+ range, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be significantly, if at all, faster than the 1ghz OMAP/Hummingbird processors we have already.

drizek said:
I bet we will pretty easily, but nobody really knows at this point. The only similar processors are in the iPad, iPhone 4 and DROID X,
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I thought the ONLY thing similar was the initial clock speed, other than that they were a TOTALLY different architecture, as evidenced by 3d performance (iPad = 20 million tringles/second, Galaxy S = 90 million triangles/second.)
I think the processor differencve was like comparing P4 tech to core I7 tech, which leads me to wonder why would you overclock it since the performance is alredy 4 times that of the pther phones.

Like what some of the earlier posters said, would like the ability to underclock the Hummingbird to extend the battery life. Since its performance is way better than the Snapdragon, its like having a HTC Incredible/EVO but have extra 10/20/30% battery life.

Evo shift 4g

I would love to have the htc evo shift 4g if it does happen to have a 800mhz processor. The keyboard is something that I would love to have. I read alot of people saying they'll trade in their evos. what're my options for getting the shift but not paying too much money in extra..?
A drop of Chuck Norris's semen was placed on the IPhone. We now have the Htc Evo.

Pay full retail or sell your evo, you won't have any luck unless you're close to an upgrade
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

Okay thank you. But is the shift worth more or less then the evo
A drop of Chuck Norris's semen was placed on the IPhone. We now have the Htc Evo.

the screen is smaller also at 3.6"

phistyle said:
the screen is smaller also at 3.6"
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Yeah I know
A drop of Chuck Norris's semen was placed on the IPhone. We now have the Htc Evo.

Crossrocker said:
Okay thank you. But is the shift worth more or less then the evo
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That's pure opinion
The Shift has a smaller screen, it has a keyboard but its a pretty gimped keyboard, but the internals are a little better.

really every thing i read about the shift4g is a fail phone smaller screen slower cpu idk its a downgrade for me

Actually the 800mhz proc is rumored to be the same as the g2( Desire Z) which is actually a very nice proc.

Its a G2. Bamm.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Exactly why im consedering it!
A drop of Chuck Norris's semen was placed on the IPhone. We now have the Htc Evo.

The speed difference isn't going to matter.
No matter if the 800mhz cpu in the shift is faster than the 1ghz cpu in the Evo, or vice versa, neither cpu is going to have an actually noticeable speed difference.
Now, if the 800mhz processor is better on battery life, then that's whats worth anything.
I see it as, at its theoretical best, a very small step up from the Evo.
If you have an Evo I wouldn't waste my time getting that phone.
If you want a keyboard I would get the Epic with the full keyboard.
If you want more power I would just wait til summer.

CheesyNutz said:
really every thing i read about the shift4g is a fail phone smaller screen slower cpu idk its a downgrade for me
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I'm always hearing that the Shift is underpowered. It has the 2nd generation snapdragons. Have you seen the OC's on the G2? It gets as high as 1.9ghz (1.7ghz stable). That is insane. The newer adreno 205's are probably 10% lower in performance compared to the Galaxy S SGX gpus. It is still close. Check out the benchmarks. My upgrade isn't till July, but I wanna wait for either a tegra 2 or adreno 220.

toprock23 said:
I'm always hearing that the Shift is underpowered. It has the 2nd generation snapdragons. Have you seen the OC's on the G2? It gets as high as 1.9ghz (1.7ghz stable). That is insane. The newer adreno 205's are probably 10% lower in performance compared to the Galaxy S SGX gpus. It is still close. Check out the benchmarks. My upgrade isn't till July, but I wanna wait for either a tegra 2 or adreno 220.
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Now now, while I'm not saying it doesn't out perform the Evo's snapdragon, let's not confuse ability to overclock with performance.

mattykinsx said:
The speed difference isn't going to matter.
No matter if the 800mhz cpu in the shift is faster than the 1ghz cpu in the Evo, or vice versa, neither cpu is going to have an actually noticeable speed difference.
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Its definitely noticeable..mostly the GPU..and this isn't only about games its about hardware acceleration enabled software and etc...
Now, if the 800mhz processor is better on battery life, then that's whats worth anything.
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EVO=65nm
Shift=45nm
aka Shift processor uses less power..
I see it as, at its theoretical best, a very small step up from the Evo.
If you have an Evo I wouldn't waste my time getting that phone.
If you want a keyboard I would get the Epic with the full keyboard.
[/QUOTE[
Yup I can't understand why HTC went with a 4 row kb on it...I mean is making it 5 row that hard?!?!? I mean it would cost them like 5 cents more at best probably and make thousands more happy...
But Epic is sweet..
If you want more power I would just wait til summer.
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Tegra 2 phones would be cool...
toprock23 said:
I'm always hearing that the Shift is underpowered. It has the 2nd generation snapdragons. Have you seen the OC's on the G2? It gets as high as 1.9ghz (1.7ghz stable). That is insane. The newer adreno 205's are probably 10% lower in performance compared to the Galaxy S SGX gpus. It is still close. Check out the benchmarks. My upgrade isn't till July, but I wanna wait for either a tegra 2 or adreno 220.
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The Galaxy S GPU is around 40%-100% more powerful actually...
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Has anyone already jumped the samsung ship for the new shift?

I have to go and pay my bill up to date tomorrow. I am very seriously thinking about the evo shift for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject or actually bought it? I'm interested in what you have to say.

herbthehammer said:
I have to go and pay my bill up to date tomorrow. I am very seriously thinking about the evo shift for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject or actually bought it? I'm interested in what you have to say.
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I'm not really sure what those obvious reasons are. The EVO Shift 4G has a slower processor, worse GPU, smaller screen, LCD instead of SAMOLED, and on all other points save Android 2.2 just about comes even with the Epic 4G. It's an attractive phone, and it probably has reasonable build quality (haven't had one in my hands yet) but I fail to see why it would be worth switching from an Epic 4G for.

Trade the best phone on sprint for a midrange phone? GREAT IDEA. /s

Electrofreak said:
I'm not really sure what those obvious reasons are. The EVO Shift 4G has a slower processor, worse GPU, smaller screen, LCD instead of SAMOLED, and on all other points save Android 2.2 just about comes even with the Epic 4G. It's an attractive phone, and it probably has reasonable build quality (haven't had one in my hands yet) but I fail to see why it would be worth switching from an Epic 4G for.
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I don't believe the processor is slower. Just because it has a slower clock speed doesn't make it slower.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

True...but its slower. Hummingbird is the fastest mobile processor until the dual cores come out.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Electrofreak said:
I'm not really sure what those obvious reasons are. The EVO Shift 4G has a slower processor, worse GPU, smaller screen, LCD instead of SAMOLED, and on all other points save Android 2.2 just about comes even with the Epic 4G. It's an attractive phone, and it probably has reasonable build quality (haven't had one in my hands yet) but I fail to see why it would be worth switching from an Epic 4G for.
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the only really good thing with the sliding keyboard is that it has no spring for it to kick out/back in. so less of a chance of it snaping/breaking anything. but its annoying to slide it. quadrant score on my store demo got 1298. beat our demo Evo by 200. so its not too bad actually for speed

I could swap phones with my old lady. She's got my evo. She doesn't really care about bigger badder better. Stuff I didn't like with the evo was its battery life, the radios were kinda deaf, and it wasn't very tolerant to temperature in the summer. Taking samsung out of the picture really narrows down the choices.
Yes, I'm impatient waiting for the real samsung update. That's my issues of obvious reasons. Plus, there's a lot of community development for htc compared to epic. Which will come first, official froyo or final (not beta or rc) cyanogen? That is the 164,000 dollar question. No 4g love either yet. I know, I'm ungrateful and too picky...

My wife traded her transform for one today, it pulled a 1634 in quadrant and over 34 in linpack before we left the parkinglot... maxed at 59fps too. 100% stock obviously.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

I'm due 4 an upgrade in Feb..it was going to be an evo but damn that phone flys!
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

nope itll take something better than the epic for that
id love an epic with no 4g

it seems largely based off the g2 to me...so it should be similar?
And even though its 800mhz, its still better than the Evo's at 1ghz.
Also, it should be a whole lot more dev friendly since htc likes to use the same stuff, so it should be easy to OC it to a stable 1.6ghz like the g2 or a 2ghz unstable bull
But I think that'd still be a major downgrade from the epic.
The only upside in my opinion is the better development its guaranteed to have,or atleast easier development since its basically already been worked on so much as the Desire Z
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

muyoso said:
Trade the best phone on sprint for a midrange phone? GREAT IDEA. /s
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I'm going trade my epic in tomorrow for a sanyo m1 lol
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

No, but I am jumping ship for the atrix!
Boo

raylusk said:
I don't believe the processor is slower. Just because it has a slower clock speed doesn't make it slower.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Trust me, it's slower. I'm a tech blogger and I've written about Hummingbird and Snapdragon. Google "Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon" and click the first link.
The Hummingbird beats Snapdragon MHz for MHz in processing power due to some heavy tweaking by the engineers at Intrinsity (which is now owned by Apple, the bastards!)
The MSM7630 in the HTC Knight is Qualcomm's 2nd-Gen "low-end" Snapdragon. It's not really a Snapdragon per se (Qualcomm chose to omit that brand from the MSM line of SoCs), but it's got the Scorpion CPU inside which is the backbone of the Snapdragon platform. It features a better graphics GPU than its Snapdragon predecessors, an Adreno 205 instead of an Adreno 200, which just about doubles graphics performance from what I've seen. However, it still doesn't come close to the PowerVR SGX540 our Epic 4G is rocking, which is still nearly twice as powerful as the Adreno 205. One other improvement the MSM7630 has is that it's manufactured on the 45 nm feature size, whereas the first-gen Snapdragons like the one in the EVO 4G are running on a 65 nm process, and are significantly less power efficient. The Epic 4G however already is on the 45 nm process and achieves about the same level of power efficiency.
From a hardware standpoint, going from an Epic 4G to an HTC EVO Shift 4G is a downgrade in every way.

Electrofreak said:
Trust me, it's slower. I'm a tech blogger and I've written about Hummingbird and Snapdragon. Google "Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon" and click the first link.
The Hummingbird beats Snapdragon MHz for MHz in processing power due to some heavy tweaking by the engineers at Intrinsity (which is now owned by Apple, the bastards!)
The MSM7630 in the HTC Knight is Qualcomm's 2nd-Gen "low-end" Snapdragon. It's not really a Snapdragon per se (Qualcomm chose to omit that brand from the MSM line of SoCs), but it's got the Scorpion CPU inside which is the backbone of the Snapdragon platform. It features a better graphics GPU than its Snapdragon predecessors, an Adreno 205 instead of an Adreno 200, which just about doubles graphics performance from what I've seen. However, it still doesn't come close to the PowerVR SGX540 our Epic 4G is rocking, which is still nearly twice as powerful as the Adreno 205. One other improvement the MSM7630 has is that it's manufactured on the 45 nm feature size, whereas the first-gen Snapdragons like the one in the EVO 4G are running on a 65 nm process, and are significantly less power efficient. The Epic 4G however already is on the 45 nm process and achieves about the same level of power efficiency.
From a hardware standpoint, going from an Epic 4G to an HTC EVO Shift 4G is a downgrade in every way.
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do you think it would be possible for you to do the same type of review on the camera for the epic against the evo and the iphone 4g? I read your last blog on the processors, and I must say dude im prety technical and you blew me away with your analysis!

boominz28 said:
do you think it would be possible for you to do the same type of review on the camera for the epic against the evo and the iphone 4g? I read your last blog on the processors, and I must say dude im prety technical and you blew me away with your analysis!
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Eh, I'm not a photo guy, I don't do cameras. I don't know jack about all that stuff and I'm afraid I wouldn't do a very good job. :-\
I have been getting bugged to do a review of Cortex-A9 (specifically Tegra 2, Orion, OMAP 4400 etc) as well as the 2nd/3rd gen Snapdragons, but I'm working on my CCNA and MSCITP certifications right now and I'm trying not to let myself get too distracted; once I start researching and writing all of my spare time gets flushed down the crapper!
flawlessbmxr said:
the only really good thing with the sliding keyboard is that it has no spring for it to kick out/back in. so less of a chance of it snaping/breaking anything. but its annoying to slide it. quadrant score on my store demo got 1298. beat our demo Evo by 200. so its not too bad actually for speed
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the5ifty said:
My wife traded her transform for one today, it pulled a 1634 in quadrant and over 34 in linpack before we left the parkinglot... maxed at 59fps too. 100% stock obviously.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
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The problem is that you guys are using Quadrant and Linpack. Snapdragon CPUs always perform better in Quadrant because it isn't a well-built benchmark. Linpack is fooled by Snapdragon's Virtual Floating Point extension.
I'd like to see the scores it gets on Smartbench 2010, a new benchmark tool that I'm still not sure I trust completely but definitely seems to be more accurate than Quadrant.

herbthehammer said:
I could swap phones with my old lady. She's got my evo. She doesn't really care about bigger badder better. Stuff I didn't like with the evo was its battery life, the radios were kinda deaf, and it wasn't very tolerant to temperature in the summer. Taking samsung out of the picture really narrows down the choices.
Yes, I'm impatient waiting for the real samsung update. That's my issues of obvious reasons. Plus, there's a lot of community development for htc compared to epic. Which will come first, official froyo or final (not beta or rc) cyanogen? That is the 164,000 dollar question. No 4g love either yet. I know, I'm ungrateful and too picky...
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Have you guys read any posts from the senior members/devs? QUADRANT IS A JOKE. It caters toward snapdragon SoC's quadrant means nothing in R/L speeds.
sent from my brain telepathically :-D

herbthehammer said:
I have to go and pay my bill up to date tomorrow. I am very seriously thinking about the evo shift for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject or actually bought it? I'm interested in what you have to say.
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if you're gonna trade-in, trade-in for an upgrade like a Tegra 2 chipset phone. Not a downgrade to a HTC Swift.
FYI, Sprint has no Tegra 2 phones in their stables right now.

Go with the Evo 4g , or something other than a Samsung phone I just swapped it for my wife's Evo and I don't regret it!support wise is a lot better (meaning custom roms, etc...). The only thing I miss is the SAMOLED thats it. The Evo Shift feels very smooth just like a G2 and once someone ports that Desire Z rom its going to be very nice!

For me, the most important downgrade would be the lack of a front-facing camera on the Shift. When I am deployed, it would be much nicer to be able to video-chat with my wife when I can find a wifi spot with my Epic.

Epic 4g vs tegra 2...

So I like many of you am thinking of jumping to tegra 2 within the.next year. I personally build pcs for myself and have always been a loyal fan of geforce gpu cards and nforce boards. So when I learned of tegra 2 I nearly creamed my pants. But after modding my phone running midnight I've turned this into a beast. Scoring 1100/2700 in smartbench and 2000 in quadrant I went looking for any benches tegra 2. I found a quadrant bench of the bionic and it scored around 2200. I know benches mean nothing but these scores are pretty close. What do you guys think are gonna be some advantages you see speed wise with tegra? Im trying to determine if the jump would be worth it...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Tegra 2 will murder Epic's gpu,i would say its 3-4 times more powerfull.But who want Tegra without Super Amoled?lol,not me.

Good point lol I know samsung sucks at updates but I think if they get the sgs2 right ill be looking forward to it. Samoled is amazing. I want a 42 inch samoled tv. Wow I just really thought about that and it sounds amazing.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

lviv73 said:
Tegra 2 will murder Epic's gpu,i would say its 3-4 times more powerfull.But who want Tegra without Super Amoled?lol,not me.
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The Tegra 2 GPU is not 3-4 times more powerful...if anything the GPU is where the Epic is closest to the Tegra 2..(of course the Tegra 2 GPU supports some nice new protocols but in terms of raw power)
RushAOZ said:
So I like many of you am thinking of jumping to tegra 2 within the.next year. I personally build pcs for myself and have always been a loyal fan of geforce gpu cards and nforce boards. So when I learned of tegra 2 I nearly creamed my pants. But after modding my phone running midnight I've turned this into a beast. Scoring 1100/2700 in smartbench and 2000 in quadrant I went looking for any benches tegra 2. I found a quadrant bench of the bionic and it scored around 2200. I know benches mean nothing but these scores are pretty close. What do you guys think are gonna be some advantages you see speed wise with tegra? Im trying to determine if the jump would be worth it...
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Here is the things to consider besides quadrant being flawed:
1) The Tegra 2 right now is not optimized and is not using the dual core..its only using 1 core..Dual Core support and optimizations will come with Honeycomb..
2) The Hummingbird is also not optimized and will be optimized in Gingerbread
3) The GPU on the Epic dithers at 24bit while Tegra 2 still does 16bit dithering...
4) The GPU on the Epic is FPS locked...so its definitely capable of more..
Its kinda hard to say what the performance will be of both once the smoke clears..but the Tegra 2 is 40nm and is based of Cortex A9 which give it a lot of advantages..the disadvantages would lie in whether or not applications would support dual core and if they will when and how efficiently..
I estimate though Tegra 2 would definitely win on CPU processing from 25%-100% depending on whether or not it can use both cores..and in terms of GPU it would be around the same to 50% better depending if there is dual core support or not...(assuming that we unlock the FPS and find a way to make it dither the same amount of bits)
Edit: Forgot to add a conclusion~~
Conclusion is that a Tegra 2 is definitely an upgrade BUT until Honeycomb comes into play we would definitely be competitive...beyond that we won't be a slouch(I mean people still use EVOs even though ours is superior by a good margin)..but its no question Tegra 2 will surpass us..
Oh and on the Nvidia tibit...I am pretty pissed at them after what they did with the laptops..they have been serving faulty chipsets for laptops for YEARS and bribing manufacturers to use them..which has me pretty pissed...even though I hear latest chipsets 400+ series are ok..but I probably won't be buying a nvidia laptop for a while..desktop gpus are ok with me though..
RushAOZ said:
Good point lol I know samsung sucks at updates but I think if they get the sgs2 right ill be looking forward to it. Samoled is amazing. I want a 42 inch samoled tv. Wow I just really thought about that and it sounds amazing.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Usually TVs tend to be Passive Matrix OLED and not Active Matrix OLED..anyways..that said I have seen an OLED TV at CES 2011..Don't now exact size it was as I viewed from a distance and had a person distracting me..I think it was 32"-46" somewhere there..and I'll tell you this IT WAS OUT OF THIS WORLD...or more precisely in this world..it was like looking through a glass window and they could pop out any time..thats how realistic it looked...I mean those 3rd TVs are suppose to "come out" but I think thats over-rated..look at an OLED TV and thats where its at..it was simply amazing...

Check out Galaxy S2.

I want the atrix on sprint. Seriously though has spelrint even announced any dual cores coming out this year?
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!

musclehead84 said:
I want the atrix on sprint. Seriously though has spelrint even announced any dual cores coming out this year?
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!
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I'm sure i wasn't the only one that noticed that none of the big CES phones were for sprint.... I don't think sprint even had a showing at CES

Were waiting for the 12th for they're announcement. The attic does sound amazing... but I don't like Motorola at all. I hate the droids and every moto phone I've had screwed me one way or another. I just hope that sprint nails the best version of the sgs2. Epic 2 4g
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I thought it was Feb 7th?

ort84 said:
I thought it was Feb 7th?
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it Is 8)
http://www.androidcentral.com/whats-sprint-conjuring-feb-7

I'm personally waiting for orion to make the jump to dual core. The tegra 2 is a nice upgrade for a non-hummingbird
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

What in your opinion is going to be the best dual core processors? Example tegra, Orion,nvida etc.
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!

Anybody know the specs on the supposed epic 2?
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!

RushAOZ said:
Were waiting for the 12th for they're announcement. The attic does sound amazing... but I don't like Motorola at all. I hate the droids and every moto phone I've had screwed me one way or another. I just hope that sprint nails the best version of the sgs2. Epic 2 4g
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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That is true of all phones except the razor. That was one well made phone, even see ones at least based off them these days. Those used to not break, remember when cell phones didn't break daily?

I'm sure soon the quadcore in the new ngp psp is going in a phone.
I just doubt seriously that it makes much of a difference at all as android at this point is not capable of running multiple threads from my understanding. The Nvidia GPU in the tegra 2 phones is pretty much on the same performance level as ours so thats not even a factor.
The rumor mill has GB offering up true multi core support on the phone, we will see how that goes, because the rumor mill had froyo supporting it too.
Multi core CPU's are awesome if you are endlessly running multiple cpu intensive tasks, on your phone I doubt you will be.

musclehead84 said:
What in your opinion is going to be the best dual core processors? Example tegra, Orion,nvida etc.
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!
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Orion! I mean hummingbird is te best single core...so why would samsung pass the crown? Lol but nah the tegra is probably gonna be the worst since its the first, but just because its the worst does not mean its bad at all lol
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Dungeon Defender on the Optimus 2X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C4TtJ4--i8

musclehead84 said:
What in your opinion is going to be the best dual core processors? Example tegra, Orion,nvida etc.
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!
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Hard to say really...there really is no benchmarks or live phones to tell..
The Tegra 2 seems to support more new specs/features on their GPU...the Orion will be bundled with the MALI-400 and the snapdragon has its Adreno which seems to be promising performance on par with our current Hummignbird but will have a 1.2ghz dual core which might help it in cpu (Though Tegra 2.5 will come this year too with 1.2ghz), the OMAP chose the SGX540 which is hard to say how they will utilize it..
See its kinda a mixed bag...as we don't have any phones to try out..
IF I were to guess out of all the Dual cores this year..the best performance would either be the Tegra 2.5 or the Orion..:/
xjman said:
I'm sure soon the quadcore in the new ngp psp is going in a phone.
I just doubt seriously that it makes much of a difference at all as android at this point is not capable of running multiple threads from my understanding. The Nvidia GPU in the tegra 2 phones is pretty much on the same performance level as ours so thats not even a factor.
The rumor mill has GB offering up true multi core support on the phone, we will see how that goes, because the rumor mill had froyo supporting it too.
Multi core CPU's are awesome if you are endlessly running multiple cpu intensive tasks, on your phone I doubt you will be.
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Multi-core support comes with Honeycomb :/..but yeh the 4 core CPU and a SGX543MP4+ does look rather sweet on that PSP..

I could write a monster post here, since comparing SoC architecture is a hobby of mine.
But, I'm tired, so I'm just going to drop links and say a few words.
http://briefmobile.com/lg-optimus-2x-benchmarked-defies-special-relativity
http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_90715.html
Obviously NVIDIA's stuff has to be taken with a grain of salt (it has a certain amount of marketing spin thrown in) but thus far has been fairly accurate when compared to actual performance numbers.
Samsung is using Tegra 2 (we've caught them accepting orders for large numbers of Tegra 2 processors) so Orion is either still in the works or has been placed on the backburner. TI is prepping their OMAP 4400, which hopefully will feature some tweaks (not something TI is known for however) to keep it competitive with the fairly hard-copy Tegra 2 ARM Cortex-A9.
And let's not forget Qualcomm. They may not be technically using Cortex-A9, but with their license to customize the ARM instruction set and CPU architecture as they see fit (something that NVIDIA, Samsung, and TI haven't paid to do), they have the ability to modify their SoCs to remain competitive, no matter what the other guys do. Their only major drawback is the time and money they need to spend on R&D.
Alright, I didn't want to write a book so I'm going to stop myself here. If you want to see me rattle on for pages about this stuff, read this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=907182

Mighty442 said:
Dungeon Defender on the Optimus 2X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C4TtJ4--i8
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Runs exactly the same as it does on my epic, I'm not sure the point with that?
gTen we will see if its there when its released. Until then all those dual cores don't do much.