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I just jumped ship

I just jumped ship from nexus one one to nexus s I love it you will too... its nice people ...
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

Should've waited for a dual core-core android by HTC.just saying...
Sent from my Sexy Nexy One using XDA App.

Yea, it's nice, but where am i gonna dig up $529?

Root it and provide system dumps

I just bought one out right with no contract, and I will see how I like it for the next few days.
First impression is that its def a finger magnet. Overall, the phone is much snappier than my OC N1 running Rod's latest MIUI ROM. Gingerbread has some nice improvements but I am already missing the MIUI slide screen. Someone please port it over ASAP .
The screen, while being the S-AMOLED, isnt a night and day difference from the N1 screen.
More on the phone as I continue to use it.....

tuan209 said:
I just bought one out right with no contract, and I will see how I like it for the next few days.
First impression is that its def a finger magnet. Overall, the phone is much snappier than my OC N1 running Rod's latest MIUI ROM. Gingerbread has some nice improvements but I am already missing the MIUI slide screen. Someone please port it over ASAP .
The screen, while being the S-AMOLED, isnt a night and day difference from the N1 screen.
More on the phone as I continue to use it.....
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Would love to know more about the VOIP integration.

GHOST99K said:
Should've waited for a dual core-core android by HTC.just saying...
Sent from my Sexy Nexy One using XDA App.
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There is always something to wait for. I have never found the single core on my N1 to be lacking, so I highly doubt I will find the significantly faster single core in my Nexus S lacking. If dual cores are a big deal 6 months from now I will sell the Nexus S and trade up.
Mokurex said:
Yea, it's nice, but where am i gonna dig up $529?
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Sell your N1, then you will only have to come up with $150-$180.

dskyers said:
I just jumped ship from nexus one one to nexus s I love it you will too... its nice people ...
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
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So?
This needs to be moved to the Nexus S forum

Mactagonist said:
I have never found the single core on my N1 to be lacking, so I highly doubt I will find the significantly faster single core in my Nexus S lacking.
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I don't think the Hummingbird is "significantly faster" than Snapdragon. Sammy has better GPU performance, which is what is mostly noticed. Both are clocked at 1GHz. I do believe Hummingbird performs slightly better than Snapdragon (can't recall why I have that belief, though), but when comparing strictly processor performance, it's minimal. The GPU is the big difference.
wondercoolguy said:
So?
This needs to be moved to the Nexus S forum
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Seriously! Take it over there...

SoberGuy said:
I don't think the Hummingbird is "significantly faster" than Snapdragon. Sammy has better GPU performance, which is what is mostly noticed. Both are clocked at 1GHz. I do believe Hummingbird performs slightly better than Snapdragon (can't recall why I have that belief, though), but when comparing strictly processor performance, it's minimal. The GPU is the big difference.
Seriously! Take it over there...
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@soberguy Well another point to the single core issue is not things that are taking place right now but things that are taking place over the next year. Developers are going to start making high thing that will require dual core for maxium performace. Also.....where are the moderators to move this

wondercoolguy said:
@soberguy Well another point to the single core issue is not things that are taking place right now but things that are taking place over the next year. Developers are going to start making high thing that will require dual core for maxium performace. Also.....where are the moderators to move this
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Oh no trust me, you and I agree. I'm not getting the S with dual core around the corner. I think it's a complete waste of money. The S has some advantages over the 1, but to me, they aren't worthwhile with dual core coming very, very soon.
I just wanted to point out that Hummingbird and Snapdragon are both 1GHz, and I don't think that Hummingbird is significantly faster than Snapdragon. GPU is a different story; we all know that has been HTC's achilles heel for some time now (go back to their WinMo days and the driver fiasco...).
You and I agree, bud. The S isn't worth it, and this thread is in the wrong damn forum.

SoberGuy said:
I don't think the Hummingbird is "significantly faster" than Snapdragon. Sammy has better GPU performance, which is what is mostly noticed. Both are clocked at 1GHz. I do believe Hummingbird performs slightly better than Snapdragon (can't recall why I have that belief, though), but when comparing strictly processor performance, it's minimal. The GPU is the big difference.
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It is hard to know until you have both GalaxyS/2.2 with NexusS/2.3 running side by side, as they have the same CPU/GPU combination and the only difference is the OS.
It could well be that 2.3 uses the GPU for something what 2.2 was doing with CPU alone. And this could turn out as the biggest difference.
I am sure that N1 GPU as such is plenty fast enough, as it is used by the most of the current WP7 phones. Nobody seems to be complaining about the "jerkiness" of the WP7 interface. It is actually a matter of the time and effort sank into UI and the underlying graphics drivers. As a consequence, it can also happen, that N1 graphics drivers get less optimized as the ones in NS. We will see.

Even if dual core “around the corner” I honestly don’t think we will see optimized software for at least 6 months.... Look at the desktop computing world.. It took nearly a year for dual core to make a difference back when it was intel core solo vs core duo (or amd64 vs X2)... The software just took a lil longer to catch up. Even now, its taking awhile for a quad core to be worth it over a dual core

SoberGuy said:
Oh no trust me, you and I agree. I'm not getting the S with dual core around the corner. I think it's a complete waste of money. The S has some advantages over the 1, but to me, they aren't worthwhile with dual core coming very, very soon.
I just wanted to point out that Hummingbird and Snapdragon are both 1GHz, and I don't think that Hummingbird is significantly faster than Snapdragon. GPU is a different story; we all know that has been HTC's achilles heel for some time now (go back to their WinMo days and the driver fiasco...).
You and I agree, bud. The S isn't worth it, and this thread is in the wrong damn forum.
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actually the cpu on the snapdragon is faster for computational tasks thanks to its FPU. hummingbird is on par to much slower in terms of computations (its linpack is like 14 lol)
the gpu is what separates the hummingbird from the snapdragon which is why hummingbirds seem better due to its overall performance

flybyme said:
actually the cpu on the snapdragon is faster for computational tasks thanks to its FPU. hummingbird is on par to much slower in terms of computations (its linpack is like 14 lol)
the gpu is what separates the hummingbird from the snapdragon which is why hummingbirds seem better due to its overall performance
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Excellent post, Sir. I always had the impressions, for some reason, that Hummingbird was a touch better, but the GPU made it really excel. It's great to hear that Snapdragon is actually a bit better, but is in fact held back due to the GPU. This makes me reconsider my next purchase significantly. I was thinking of holding off on HTC, as they'll continue to use Qualcom. Perhaps I'll stick with HTC, depending on when they have a dual core available for AT&T frequencies.

Ima gonna puke with all this crap about nexus s. It sucks people its made by samsung. Plastic shell cheap ****. Gps problems will come out soon and u ppl will be crying why I brought it! It's a galaxy s phone so I won't be surprised if tons of **** is wrong with it. Get the new LG phone instead or muizu m9
Sent from my N1 from XDA app

norazi said:
Even if dual core “around the corner” I honestly don’t think we will see optimized software for at least 6 months.... Look at the desktop computing world.. It took nearly a year for dual core to make a difference back when it was intel core solo vs core duo (or amd64 vs X2)... The software just took a lil longer to catch up. Even now, its taking awhile for a quad core to be worth it over a dual core
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But that was the first time people had seen dual core on any device. Now it's been around a while and people know what they are dealing with.

mac208x said:
soon and u ppl will be crying why I brought it!
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Hopefully they cry on the nexus s forum.....

So, I don't know if I'm the only one, but the only mention of dual core in a device that I've seen is the new Motorola Stingray tablet they were using to show off Maps 5. I don't even think Ginger supports Dual core. I honestly don't think we'll see anything dual core until Honeycomb.
Is there really any reason for NEEDING a dual-core processor in your phone? The only reason I can see for having it is to brag about it.

tuan209 said:
The screen, while being the S-AMOLED, isnt a night and day difference from the N1 screen.
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Must be worse than the screen on the SGS then as the SGS I had had a clearly far better screen than the N1.

Just what you always wanted - 2400 page processor manual!

I'm probably the only person on this planet that would ever download a 20.5-meg, 2426-page document titled "S5PC110 RISC Microprocessor User's Manual", but if there are other hardware freaks out there interested, here you go:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=repository&id=644&c=samsung_s5pc110_microprocessor_user_manual_1.00
As you may or may not know, the S5PC110, better known as Hummingbird, is the SoC (System on a Chip) that is the brain of your Epic. Now, when you have those moments when you really just gotta know the memory buffer size for your H.264 encoder or are dying to pore over a block diagram of your SGX540 GPU architecture, you can!
( Note: It does get a little bit dry at parts. Unless you're an ARM engineer, I suppose. )

Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol

now we can overclock the gpu
/sarcasm

cbusillo said:
Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol
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Hah, because I know exactly squat about Android development. Hardware is more my thing, though if I find some spare time to play around with the Android SDK maybe that can change.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

This actually is really exciting news. RISC architectures in general, especially the ARM instruction set is great and honestly it would so the works a lot of good kicking the chains of x86
Sent from my Nexus S with a keyboard

Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.

sauron0101 said:
Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.
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Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..

gTen said:
Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..
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No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.

Well, I got the Epic knowing Tegra 2 was coming in a few months with next-gen performance. I was badly in need of a new phone and the Epic, while not a Cortex A9, is no slouch.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

sauron0101 said:
No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
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Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.
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The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..

gTen said:
Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
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AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf

Electrofreak said:
AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf
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I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/

gTen said:
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
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Here are some additional benchmarks comparing the Galaxy Tab to the Viewsonic G Tablet:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4062/samsung-galaxy-tab-the-anandtech-review/5
It's possible that the Tegra 2 isn't optimized yet. Not to mention, Honeycomb will be the release that makes the most of dual cores. However, there are lackluster performance gains in terms of graphics - most of it seems to be purely CPU gains in performance.
I'm not entirely sure that Neocore is representative of real world performance either. It's possible that it may have been optimized for some platforms. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if Neocore gave inflated scores for the Snapdragon and it's Adreno graphics platform. Of course, neither is Quadrant.
I think that real world games like Quake III based games are the way to go, although until we see more graphics demanding games, I suppose that there's little to test (we're expecting more games for Android next year).
Finally, we've gotten to a point for web browsing where its the data connection HSPA+, LTE, or WiMAX that will dictate how fast pages load. It's like upgrading the CPU for a PC. I currently run an overclocked q6600 - if I were to upgrade to say a Sandy Bridge when it comes out next year, I don't expect significant improvements in real world browsing performance.
Eventually, the smartphone market will face the same problem that the PC market does. Apart from us enthusiasts who enjoy benchmarking and overclocking, apart from high end gaming, and perhaps some specialized operations (like video encoding which I do a bit of), you really don't need the latest and greatest CPU or 6+ GB of RAM (which many new desktops come with). Same with high end GPUs. Storage follows the same dilemna. I imagine that as storage grows, I'll be storing FLAC music files instead of AAC, MP3, or OGG, and more video. I will also use my cell phone to replace my USB key drive. Otherwise, there's no need for bigger storage.

gTen said:
I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/
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Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.

Electrofreak said:
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.
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I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?

gTen said:
I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
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I'm one of Taylor's (unofficial) tech consultants, and I spoke with him regarding that article. Though, credit where it's due to Taylor, he's been digging stuff up recently that I don't have a clue about. We've talked about Honeycomb and dual-core tablets, and since Honeycomb will be the first release of Android to support tablets officially, and since Motorola seems to be holding back the release of its Tegra 2 tablet until Honeycomb (quickly checks AndroidAndMe to make sure I haven't said anything Taylor hasn't already said), and rumors say that Honeycomb will have dual-core support, it all makes sense.
But yes, the whitepaper is the one he used to base that article on.
gTen said:
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?
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Android 2.2 was used in all of their tests according to the footnotes in the document. While I believe that Android 2.2 is capable of using both cores simultaneously, I don't believe it is capable of threading them separately. But that's just my theory. I'm just going off of what the Gingerbread documentation from Google says; and unfortunately there is no mention of improved multi-core processor support in Gingerbread.
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html
As for FPS and the dithering... they don't really go there; the whitepaper is clearly focused on CPU performance, and so it features benchmark scores and timed results. I take it all with a pinch of salt anyhow; despite the graphs and such, it's still basically an NVIDIA advertisement.
That said, Taylor has been to one of their expos or whatever you call it, and he's convinced that the Tegra 2 GPU will perform several times better than the SGX 540 in the Galaxy S phones. I'm not so sure I'm convinced... I've seen comparable performance benchmarks come from the LG Tegra 2 phone, but Taylor claims it was an early build with and he's seen even better performance. Time will tell I suppose...
EDIT - As for not being able to access the .pdfs, what are you talking about?! XDA app / browser and Adobe Reader!

Has anyone already jumped the samsung ship for the new shift?

I have to go and pay my bill up to date tomorrow. I am very seriously thinking about the evo shift for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject or actually bought it? I'm interested in what you have to say.

herbthehammer said:
I have to go and pay my bill up to date tomorrow. I am very seriously thinking about the evo shift for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject or actually bought it? I'm interested in what you have to say.
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I'm not really sure what those obvious reasons are. The EVO Shift 4G has a slower processor, worse GPU, smaller screen, LCD instead of SAMOLED, and on all other points save Android 2.2 just about comes even with the Epic 4G. It's an attractive phone, and it probably has reasonable build quality (haven't had one in my hands yet) but I fail to see why it would be worth switching from an Epic 4G for.

Trade the best phone on sprint for a midrange phone? GREAT IDEA. /s

Electrofreak said:
I'm not really sure what those obvious reasons are. The EVO Shift 4G has a slower processor, worse GPU, smaller screen, LCD instead of SAMOLED, and on all other points save Android 2.2 just about comes even with the Epic 4G. It's an attractive phone, and it probably has reasonable build quality (haven't had one in my hands yet) but I fail to see why it would be worth switching from an Epic 4G for.
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I don't believe the processor is slower. Just because it has a slower clock speed doesn't make it slower.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

True...but its slower. Hummingbird is the fastest mobile processor until the dual cores come out.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Electrofreak said:
I'm not really sure what those obvious reasons are. The EVO Shift 4G has a slower processor, worse GPU, smaller screen, LCD instead of SAMOLED, and on all other points save Android 2.2 just about comes even with the Epic 4G. It's an attractive phone, and it probably has reasonable build quality (haven't had one in my hands yet) but I fail to see why it would be worth switching from an Epic 4G for.
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the only really good thing with the sliding keyboard is that it has no spring for it to kick out/back in. so less of a chance of it snaping/breaking anything. but its annoying to slide it. quadrant score on my store demo got 1298. beat our demo Evo by 200. so its not too bad actually for speed

I could swap phones with my old lady. She's got my evo. She doesn't really care about bigger badder better. Stuff I didn't like with the evo was its battery life, the radios were kinda deaf, and it wasn't very tolerant to temperature in the summer. Taking samsung out of the picture really narrows down the choices.
Yes, I'm impatient waiting for the real samsung update. That's my issues of obvious reasons. Plus, there's a lot of community development for htc compared to epic. Which will come first, official froyo or final (not beta or rc) cyanogen? That is the 164,000 dollar question. No 4g love either yet. I know, I'm ungrateful and too picky...

My wife traded her transform for one today, it pulled a 1634 in quadrant and over 34 in linpack before we left the parkinglot... maxed at 59fps too. 100% stock obviously.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

I'm due 4 an upgrade in Feb..it was going to be an evo but damn that phone flys!
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

nope itll take something better than the epic for that
id love an epic with no 4g

it seems largely based off the g2 to me...so it should be similar?
And even though its 800mhz, its still better than the Evo's at 1ghz.
Also, it should be a whole lot more dev friendly since htc likes to use the same stuff, so it should be easy to OC it to a stable 1.6ghz like the g2 or a 2ghz unstable bull
But I think that'd still be a major downgrade from the epic.
The only upside in my opinion is the better development its guaranteed to have,or atleast easier development since its basically already been worked on so much as the Desire Z
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

muyoso said:
Trade the best phone on sprint for a midrange phone? GREAT IDEA. /s
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I'm going trade my epic in tomorrow for a sanyo m1 lol
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

No, but I am jumping ship for the atrix!
Boo

raylusk said:
I don't believe the processor is slower. Just because it has a slower clock speed doesn't make it slower.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Trust me, it's slower. I'm a tech blogger and I've written about Hummingbird and Snapdragon. Google "Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon" and click the first link.
The Hummingbird beats Snapdragon MHz for MHz in processing power due to some heavy tweaking by the engineers at Intrinsity (which is now owned by Apple, the bastards!)
The MSM7630 in the HTC Knight is Qualcomm's 2nd-Gen "low-end" Snapdragon. It's not really a Snapdragon per se (Qualcomm chose to omit that brand from the MSM line of SoCs), but it's got the Scorpion CPU inside which is the backbone of the Snapdragon platform. It features a better graphics GPU than its Snapdragon predecessors, an Adreno 205 instead of an Adreno 200, which just about doubles graphics performance from what I've seen. However, it still doesn't come close to the PowerVR SGX540 our Epic 4G is rocking, which is still nearly twice as powerful as the Adreno 205. One other improvement the MSM7630 has is that it's manufactured on the 45 nm feature size, whereas the first-gen Snapdragons like the one in the EVO 4G are running on a 65 nm process, and are significantly less power efficient. The Epic 4G however already is on the 45 nm process and achieves about the same level of power efficiency.
From a hardware standpoint, going from an Epic 4G to an HTC EVO Shift 4G is a downgrade in every way.

Electrofreak said:
Trust me, it's slower. I'm a tech blogger and I've written about Hummingbird and Snapdragon. Google "Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon" and click the first link.
The Hummingbird beats Snapdragon MHz for MHz in processing power due to some heavy tweaking by the engineers at Intrinsity (which is now owned by Apple, the bastards!)
The MSM7630 in the HTC Knight is Qualcomm's 2nd-Gen "low-end" Snapdragon. It's not really a Snapdragon per se (Qualcomm chose to omit that brand from the MSM line of SoCs), but it's got the Scorpion CPU inside which is the backbone of the Snapdragon platform. It features a better graphics GPU than its Snapdragon predecessors, an Adreno 205 instead of an Adreno 200, which just about doubles graphics performance from what I've seen. However, it still doesn't come close to the PowerVR SGX540 our Epic 4G is rocking, which is still nearly twice as powerful as the Adreno 205. One other improvement the MSM7630 has is that it's manufactured on the 45 nm feature size, whereas the first-gen Snapdragons like the one in the EVO 4G are running on a 65 nm process, and are significantly less power efficient. The Epic 4G however already is on the 45 nm process and achieves about the same level of power efficiency.
From a hardware standpoint, going from an Epic 4G to an HTC EVO Shift 4G is a downgrade in every way.
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do you think it would be possible for you to do the same type of review on the camera for the epic against the evo and the iphone 4g? I read your last blog on the processors, and I must say dude im prety technical and you blew me away with your analysis!

boominz28 said:
do you think it would be possible for you to do the same type of review on the camera for the epic against the evo and the iphone 4g? I read your last blog on the processors, and I must say dude im prety technical and you blew me away with your analysis!
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Eh, I'm not a photo guy, I don't do cameras. I don't know jack about all that stuff and I'm afraid I wouldn't do a very good job. :-\
I have been getting bugged to do a review of Cortex-A9 (specifically Tegra 2, Orion, OMAP 4400 etc) as well as the 2nd/3rd gen Snapdragons, but I'm working on my CCNA and MSCITP certifications right now and I'm trying not to let myself get too distracted; once I start researching and writing all of my spare time gets flushed down the crapper!
flawlessbmxr said:
the only really good thing with the sliding keyboard is that it has no spring for it to kick out/back in. so less of a chance of it snaping/breaking anything. but its annoying to slide it. quadrant score on my store demo got 1298. beat our demo Evo by 200. so its not too bad actually for speed
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the5ifty said:
My wife traded her transform for one today, it pulled a 1634 in quadrant and over 34 in linpack before we left the parkinglot... maxed at 59fps too. 100% stock obviously.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
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The problem is that you guys are using Quadrant and Linpack. Snapdragon CPUs always perform better in Quadrant because it isn't a well-built benchmark. Linpack is fooled by Snapdragon's Virtual Floating Point extension.
I'd like to see the scores it gets on Smartbench 2010, a new benchmark tool that I'm still not sure I trust completely but definitely seems to be more accurate than Quadrant.

herbthehammer said:
I could swap phones with my old lady. She's got my evo. She doesn't really care about bigger badder better. Stuff I didn't like with the evo was its battery life, the radios were kinda deaf, and it wasn't very tolerant to temperature in the summer. Taking samsung out of the picture really narrows down the choices.
Yes, I'm impatient waiting for the real samsung update. That's my issues of obvious reasons. Plus, there's a lot of community development for htc compared to epic. Which will come first, official froyo or final (not beta or rc) cyanogen? That is the 164,000 dollar question. No 4g love either yet. I know, I'm ungrateful and too picky...
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Have you guys read any posts from the senior members/devs? QUADRANT IS A JOKE. It caters toward snapdragon SoC's quadrant means nothing in R/L speeds.
sent from my brain telepathically :-D

herbthehammer said:
I have to go and pay my bill up to date tomorrow. I am very seriously thinking about the evo shift for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject or actually bought it? I'm interested in what you have to say.
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if you're gonna trade-in, trade-in for an upgrade like a Tegra 2 chipset phone. Not a downgrade to a HTC Swift.
FYI, Sprint has no Tegra 2 phones in their stables right now.

Go with the Evo 4g , or something other than a Samsung phone I just swapped it for my wife's Evo and I don't regret it!support wise is a lot better (meaning custom roms, etc...). The only thing I miss is the SAMOLED thats it. The Evo Shift feels very smooth just like a G2 and once someone ports that Desire Z rom its going to be very nice!

For me, the most important downgrade would be the lack of a front-facing camera on the Shift. When I am deployed, it would be much nicer to be able to video-chat with my wife when I can find a wifi spot with my Epic.

We pwned the tegra 2 in games **GO SAMSUNG**

Nexus S uses the same SGX 540/S5PC110 SOC.
http://androidandme.com/2011/03/news/tegra-2-benchmarks-motorola-atrix-4g-vs-lg-optimus-2x/
***notice on the optimus x2****
the test is not fair.
the fps limited on most devices is 60 fps
the optimus x2 has uncapped fps rate

Not exactly pwn'd but we held our own against the big boys and their fancy dual core's.

I wouldn't expect dual core to help in games at all. Overall phone performance running multiple apps could be a big difference. Not to mention nothing is coded to take advantage of dual core right now either.
I don't think dual core is going to help much right now, and I am in no rush to get one. However, when things start getting optimized for dual core I may become more interested.

Im sorry, where did we beat the Tegra 2 at all? I'm not seeing it.

I would definitely not get the atrix only cause Motorola locks them down to much. I would wait for a dual core till later in the year when some.better ones come out.
Sent From My Evo Killer!

noobnl said:
Nexus S uses the same SGX 540/S5PC110 SOC.
http://androidandme.com/2011/03/news/tegra-2-benchmarks-motorola-atrix-4g-vs-lg-optimus-2x/
***notice on the optimus x2****
the test is not fair.
the fps limited on most devices is 60 fps
the optimus x2 has uncapped fps rate
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Yeah, uh, noobnl, go back and look again man... we didn't pwn Tegra 2 in those tests. The Tegra 2 GeForce GPU has been proven to outperform our SGX540. Not by an insane amount, but consistently by a reasonable margin. The only reason we beat the Atrix in some tests was because it runs at a 540x960 display to our 480x800. The Optimus 2X did better than the Atrix because it's running at 480x800 as well.

I fail to see where we pwned the Tegra 2, or even come close, but it's cool to know that the Epic is still pretty competitive.

Could a CPU test be say zipping a large file and time how long it takes between phones?

herbthehammer said:
Could a CPU test be say zipping a large file and time how long it takes between phones?
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tegra would probably kill us in that test, but in games and things like that we are about even.

Do you think we'll get locked out of some new games that are "dual core only" even though or phones should handle them?

I'm a bit torn on this issue. I'm very happy our phone held it's own (and it did), and I'm certainly aware that almost no app take advantage of the dual core yet. However as a very heavy multitasker, it'd be nice to get rid of that lag between 'switching' applications (which may or may no need to be reloaded into memory). Although I wonder if the nexus s/epic had 1gb of ram if I'd still feel the same way. I feel like additional RAM (which the atrix has) might be more valuable than the dual core. Just my 2 cents...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Toast95135 said:
Do you think we'll get locked out of some new games that are "dual core only" even though or phones should handle them?
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If I had to guess, we are absolutely going to get left out of new high end games. There are games out there now that are Tegra2 only, so even other dual cores will not be able to play them. Its looking like the market is going to be fragmented beyond belief by summertime. I hope developers don't continue to develop for specific SoC's, because that would harm the market more than it helps.

just like PCs. we wont see improvement till apps are made for dual core

I swear, Noobnl, you ALWAYS say you're leaving, then surprise everyone by making a new thread. LOL

muyoso said:
If I had to guess, we are absolutely going to get left out of new high end games. There are games out there now that are Tegra2 only, so even other dual cores will not be able to play them. Its looking like the market is going to be fragmented beyond belief by summertime. I hope developers don't continue to develop for specific SoC's, because that would harm the market more than it helps.
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I know it's disappointing, I'm hoping they only give them an exclusive for a little while. And I thought Android was supposed to be heading away from fragmentation . I honestly think they're going to kill Android by making the phone's lifespan extremely short if they keep heading in the direction they're going.

Well things to consider is the FPS cap and whether or not its being dithered as 16bit or 24bit :/..spec wise..we should be on par in the GFX department to the Tegra 2..
I personally dont see much reason to jump to dual cores yet..mostly wit quadcores coming en of the year..sure its an endless cycle..but at least by the more apps would exist that can actually take advantage of those cores...

muyoso said:
Im sorry, where did we beat the Tegra 2 at all? I'm not seeing it.
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You know muyoso... for someone who only comments on other peoples threads you have a lot of balls contradicting n00b who actually did something for the dev community and probably knows more then you.
I'm just saying....
10 char

Somedays I almost wonder if it is a condition that you have to be a **** to own this phone. I certainly hope not, otherwise I need to return mine.

Possible EVO 3D successors CPU?

Next Snapdragon CPU: 2.5GHz, 75% Less Power
Samsung made headlines last week when it promised a 2GHz smartphone CPU for 2012. It wasn’t long ago that such a thing didn’t even seem possible, and the news sparked plenty of conversations about how fast the industry is moving. However, it seems Samsung’s lofty promise has already been outdone by Qualcomm, which is planning new single, dual and quad core Snapdragons that will reach clock speeds 2.5GHz.
A leaked Qualcomm presentation details the company’s plans for its next-generation Snapdragon processors, the MSM8270, MSM8930 and MSM8960 processors, and the APQ8064. Electronista reports that these chips are expected to be as much as five times faster than their predecessors in raw CPU power with four times faster graphics and "console quality gaming." The slides, first posted by MobileTechWorld, also detail 1080p video playback on tablets and other large display devices, stereoscopic 3D capture and playback, and support for 7.1 Dolby, and a 20-megapixel camera.
All of the CPUs are expected to sample before the end of the year but don’t expect to see any products until 2012 at the earliest.
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Since both the EVO 4G and 3D are using the same brand of processor I think its safe to assume it will also use this next gen processor. I suppose this is good news for those who can't upgrade to the EVO3D this year. There is always something better around the bend.
I would love to see video game benchmark videos for this cpu.
source

the quad cores are a long ways away, but these new Dual cores, possibly running at 2.0 Ghz are going to be insane. The "console gaming" graphics are probably being a little overrated when described that way...
Anyways your in the wrong section, someone move this to Evo 3D discussion

Samzebian said:
the quad cores are a long ways away, but these new Dual cores, possibly running at 2.0 Ghz are going to be insane. The "console gaming" graphics are probably being a little overrated when described that way...
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This is with newest Adreno on the EVO3D
Samzebian said:
Anyways your in the wrong section, someone move this to Evo 3D discussion
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I made this thread to be read by those who still have the EVO4G that are not eligible for the upgrade when the EVO3D is released.

Funny cause my laptop has a 1.6 GHz.

I wonder how long the gap between Desktop CPUs and Phone CPUs will close.

Zabalba said:
I wonder how long the gap between Desktop CPUs and Phone CPUs will close.
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A while. Even though the numbers may be similar the architecture is no where near the same.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

Samzebian said:
the quad cores are a long ways away, but these new Dual cores, possibly running at 2.0 Ghz are going to be insane. The "console gaming" graphics are probably being a little overrated when described that way...
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Um, not all that far off...