Database Users

Will we wait for the HTC Hero patch in June?

http://www.coolsmartphone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15484
I wanted to run a 2nd poll following the news that the Hero firmware patch for 2.x had been pushed back yet again....
Do we have an opinion? Do we care much because we have a cool bunch of cooks anyway?
Let's see....

I think it's pointless jumping ship now, after waiting for so long.
It will be more interesting to see if Fro-yo will help to ease this situation with future updates.

there are a serveral options that arent in the poll
no - Ill buy another android device no HTC for me anymore
no - Ill flash a custom rom
for me well i just flashed senseHero 2.1 and im happy with it xD
and next time i guess i will buy a nexus 2 or nex 3 becouse then you will get the newest software i hope

jbr7rr said:
there are a serveral options that arent in the poll
no - Ill buy another android device no HTC for me anymore
no - Ill flash a custom rom
for me well i just flashed senseHero 2.1 and im happy with it xD
and next time i guess i will buy a nexus 2 or nex 3 becouse then you will get the newest software i hope
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed these options should be added.
Good point (below)

Is it really the best place to post such polls at? It's a DEVELOPMENT forum.

kyods said:
Is it really the best place to post such polls at? It's a DEVELOPMENT forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
also i would vote for "no i will get a non-htc device before", i think that is an option that should be listed. at least to make people think about that there are ways to show your dis-appreciation (just made that word up) for htc. show them that they suck, buy competitors phones.
edit: now i read the posts between the first and the last, guess i am not the only one thinking this way

Kudos to kyods there

I will wait,not that im waiting for the update i just dont have the "time" to buy a new device every 6/12 months.
But i am a little dissapointed with Android,i thought that beeing open-source would make it easier to keep it updated...i know the main problem is kernell,in other words HTC,but same thing happends with other brands.
All i hope is the few true developers for our Hero stay aboard...

My contract isn't up till next feb so I will hang on for the next gen of devices (4"+ screens, 1.5GHz 2nd Gen processors, Better touch sensors, more RAM e.t.c) and stick with loading custom ROMs on my hero until then

Why would anyone need an "official" GSM rom?
Take the fresh Sprint leak, use the GSM leaked kernels and voila.
It'd be the exact same thing.

adwinp said:
Why would anyone need an "official" GSM rom?
Take the fresh Sprint leak, use the GSM leaked kernels and voila.
It'd be the exact same thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The GSM leaked kernels are crap, the are test kernels that suck the life out of the battery.
We need an official kernel to improve the ROM's any more

i'll just use cooked roms, they are often better than the official ones anyway.

jbr7rr said:
there are a serveral options that arent in the poll
no - Ill buy another android device no HTC for me anymore
no - Ill flash a custom rom
for me well i just flashed senseHero 2.1 and im happy with it xD
and next time i guess i will buy a nexus 2 or nex 3 becouse then you will get the newest software i hope
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, too. These options should be added.

Yes i will wait since i'm already pretty happy with my Hero as it is, but my next phone will not be a HTC...

adwinp said:
Why would anyone need an "official" GSM rom?
Take the fresh Sprint leak, use the GSM leaked kernels and voila.
It'd be the exact same thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1, no need to wait, aHero is fine for me and I prefer Vanilla Android than SenseUI.
Maybe this update, if it comes one day, will bring new/better/improved drivers, kernel patches or whatever, so I'll wait but ... it's HTC: they'll invest more time in new device than supporting "older" ones

VillianROM
Who needs an official build when we have Nathan, VillianROM is all I need in my life. I only want cooked Roms

All we need from the official HTC update is the kernel.
Ontopic: I will stick with my Hero, since it's a very good phone.

All this screwing around on HTC's part has learnt me one thing. I'm never buying a HTC android device again. They could've release an update months ago. All they want is for us to get tired of waiting and buy a Desire or Legend. Not me.
I'll wait for the upgrade. Buy a new android device in fall. And it will be a Samsung or Motorola.

its annoying, but sensehero 2.1 makes it bearable.

As I am in a contract with my hero, I will wait, but once my contract is up I probably wont be getting another HTC phone. I don't like waiting for updates when they are available, its really annoying, and to be honest, does not make me feel very valued as a customer.
If I am not valued by HTC, then I will not be giving them any more of my money.
simples.

Early Froyo Development

So I've been messing around trying to see what I can get going on the froyo front and I'm running into some problems....
first off, froyo isn't a huge fan of the galaxy s hardware...in AVD, when I create the profile in terms of the captivate hardware and it is buggy even in emulation...this doesn't bode well for actual hardware use. Maybe I'm just really bad at development but I dunno...
So secondly, on the phone itself I thought i'd try to just send over the image to see if the phone would even accept it. While the bootloader seems to be fine and not too worried about accepting an image (the touchwiz 2.1) it doesn't want to accept the buggy froyo.
So i've given it some shots, but its gonna take someone or a group of people who're smarter than me to see why the bootloader isn't really unlocked and why the avd doesn't like the galaxy s hardware specifications

I brought up the possibility of not being able to run Froyo without it being officially released by Samsung first on the Phandroid forums and repeatedly was assured that it'd only be a matter of time until Froyo was released on it.
This is disappointing

Intervenient said:
I brought up the possibility of not being able to run Froyo without it being officially released by Samsung first on the Phandroid forums and repeatedly was assured that it'd only be a matter of time until Froyo was released on it.
This is disappointing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well it should work without it being specifically released (see aria, and every old HTC) but for some reason it's not. I'm probably just doing something wrong... i was a WM dev then an iPhone dev, I'm just learning the whole android development stuff

Read up on behold 2 development on androidforums.com and Eugene_ 373's forum on androidspin.com its very similar in structure to the galaxy s brand of phones. You can't expect Samsung phones and HTC phones to be in anyway simular. They use different file systems and partitions. So it is not a cut and paste job you need to do some heavy hacking.

psychoace said:
Read up on behold 2 development on androidforums.com and Eugene_ 373's forum on androidspin.com its very similar in structure to the galaxy s brand of phones. You can't expect Samsung phones and HTC phones to be in anyway simular. They use different file systems and partitions. So it is not a cut and paste job you need to do some heavy hacking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you think it can be done? Will we see Froyo before Samsung releases it?

Intervenient said:
Do you think it can be done? Will we see Froyo before Samsung releases it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I and pretty much everyone that has followed the behold 2 debacle on androidforums.com have major doubts but I still believe there is potential. That's as much as I can say because some people on here don't like the fact that I don't have the same blind optimism as they do.
Also here are some posts that might help
http://forum.androidspin.com/showthread.php?p=12840#post12840
http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-behold-2/
http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-behold-2/63246-dev-needed-2-1-running-behold-2-a.html
Also I still might get a captivate if some good dev work is done. I don't need froyo before Samsung releases it and most of the added function provided by hacked and rooted roms can be added on to samsung roms. I am not getting a new phone for another month so if it looks like there is a lot of dev work done to this phone by then I will stay Samsung even though it might not get gingerbread.

psychoace said:
I and pretty much everyone that has followed the behold 2 debacle on androidforums.com have major doubts but I still believe there is potential. That's as much as I can say because some people on here don't like the fact that I don't have the same blind optimism as they do.
Also here are some posts that might help
http://forum.androidspin.com/showthread.php?p=12840#post12840
http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-behold-2/
http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-behold-2/63246-dev-needed-2-1-running-behold-2-a.html
Also I still might get a captivate if some good dev work is done. I don't need froyo before Samsung releases it and most of the added function provided by hacked and rooted roms can be added on to samsung roms. I am not getting a new phone for another month so if it looks like there is a lot of dev work done to this phone by then I will stay Samsung even though it might not get gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just doing a quick Twitter search for "iphone captivate" yields 80% of the peope tweeting something along the lines of leaving their iPhone 4 for a captivate. Lets hope the Dev's share the same thoughts.

Hey I would just like to know if the Galaxy S has something. Can you go into Apps managment and look for an app called "device managment"? If it's there and at 40+ mb's then that is a recovery rom. It is a duplicate of your starting rom. You can clear it most likely to regain space but after a reboot it will come back. There is another partition on the phone that stores the rom and the phone will run a check on boot up to make sure it's there. If not then it replaces it. It can be hacked out permanently but I know the Galaxy S doesn't really have any issues about storage space.

psychoace said:
I and pretty much everyone that has followed the behold 2 debacle on androidforums.com have major doubts but I still believe there is potential. That's as much as I can say because some people on here don't like the fact that I don't have the same blind optimism as they do.
Also here are some posts that might help
http://forum.androidspin.com/showthread.php?p=12840#post12840
http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-behold-2/
http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-behold-2/63246-dev-needed-2-1-running-behold-2-a.html
Also I still might get a captivate if some good dev work is done. I don't need froyo before Samsung releases it and most of the added function provided by hacked and rooted roms can be added on to samsung roms. I am not getting a new phone for another month so if it looks like there is a lot of dev work done to this phone by then I will stay Samsung even though it might not get gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very much apperciated, and the links were helpful on how this all will go down. This greatly changes on if I'll keep my Captivate. I know you should be happy with the phone you have, not the one you'll get, but I don't think I can stomach having a phone that won't be supported come Q4.

If the galaxy phones sell well it will be supported. They do have some phones that have gone from 1.5 to 2.1. Just don't expect any haste out of there crew

The fact that there will be an official release of 2.2 is whats keeping most devs from putting time into it. I know I wouldn't want to put a lot of effort into something just to have an official release come out before development is done.

Phlip00ws6 said:
The fact that there will be an official release of 2.2 is whats keeping most devs from putting time into it. I know I wouldn't want to put a lot of effort into something just to have an official release come out before development is done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true...
I was just messing around with the sdk and whatnot and thought what the hell I have a spare I might as well try
but i guess it's above my head. I'm gonna keep reading up on it though, I'm not the best coder (my expertise lies in c++) but I can surely give it a shot

Phlip00ws6 said:
The fact that there will be an official release of 2.2 is whats keeping most devs from putting time into it. I know I wouldn't want to put a lot of effort into something just to have an official release come out before development is done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tell that to Cyanogen and Avalaunchmods and Herver who are all making FroYo ROMs for the Evo.
This sucks. I was kinda looking into replacing my 9700 with the Captivate and keeping at&t and Sprint both...

Phlip00ws6 said:
The fact that there will be an official release of 2.2 is whats keeping most devs from putting time into it. I know I wouldn't want to put a lot of effort into something just to have an official release come out before development is done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wrong.
See above post and also thing about the nexus one. 2.2 was released via cyanogen before it was officially released to the public.
And why would you want the official release from Samsung, which would still have the ATT junk and TW3.0, I want STOCK.

andy2na said:
wrong.
See above post and also thing about the nexus one. 2.2 was released via cyanogen before it was officially released to the public.
And why would you want the official release from Samsung, which would still have the ATT junk and TW3.0, I want STOCK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah being able to remove the bloatware and using launcher pro and some of the stock Android apps like music is nice but still having to leave any TouchWiz stuff there is annoying. It will be the same on the official release just with 2.2 so I don't see why there wouldn't already be development for a custom ROM for captivate based off the stock Froyo 2.2 straight from Google. In fact this reminds me that I need to keep reading up and playing around so I might be able to do something even though it would only be for future development.

I'm not as concerned about 2.2 as 3.0...
If someone can get 2.2 running on this, then it bodes well for getting 3.0 running on this as well.

TexUs said:
I'm not as concerned about 2.2 as 3.0...
If someone can get 2.2 running on this, then it bodes well for getting 3.0 running on this as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. I'd love to see Gingerbread on this phone.

[Q] Desire Z or Moto Milestone 2????

Hi all,
my first post here.
am really confused b/w Desire Z and Milestone 2. I neeeeeed a keyboard. tired of X10's onscreen keyboard rite now.
am not worried about the CPU clock speeds of OMAP and MSMs though.And not really worried about the Blur or sense stuff.
Any statistics on the GPU performance? saw the FPS on Desire Z's MSM7230 reached around 55. how much is Moto scoring in that area?
Has anyone here got a chance to play with both of these?
regards
Aj700

Another thing you should think about. Is that the milestone's bootloader is heavely locked. So all the costum roms, will only be with the kernels released officialy by motorola. So you will newer be able to upgrade proberly with custom roms, after they abandon the phone
You can see that in the Milestone forums. We are still waiting on the 2.2 upgrade. And they where actually considering not to release the 2.2 upgrade. Even though there are bugs in the pressent 2.1 firmware. (Very poor 2d framerate for instance)

ClausG76 said:
Another thing you should think about. Is that the milestone's bootloader is heavely locked. So all the costum roms, will only be with the kernels released officialy by motorola. So you will newer be able to upgrade proberly with custom roms, after they abandon the phone
You can see that in the Milestone forums. We are still waiting on the 2.2 upgrade. And they where actually considering not to release the 2.2 upgrade. Even though there are bugs in the pressent 2.1 firmware. (Very poor 2d framerate for instance)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a completely fair point. I have the original Milestone, and actually wouldn't mind sticking with it if it weren't for their bootloader. Nothing wrong with the hardware itself, and the TI core is awesome. Still wont ever buy another device from Motorola unless they change their policies. Sure, HTC also has some restrictions, and you hear people complain about slow updates once in a blue mood, but they are easily the right choice, as the lesser of two evils.

ClausG76 said:
So all the costum roms, will only be with the kernels released officialy by motorola. So you will newer be able to upgrade proberly with custom roms, after they abandon the phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, does that also mean HTC Sense cannot be loaded onto a Milestone 2, or just that Motorola 'Motoblur' improvements won't be possible unless direct from Motorola?
(Excuse my ignorance, I've read through pages on the Milestone 1 forum, but don't understand much of it since I've been Windows Mobile up to now.)

icewall said:
That's a completely fair point. I have the original Milestone, and actually wouldn't mind sticking with it if it weren't for their bootloader. Nothing wrong with the hardware itself, and the TI core is awesome. Still wont ever buy another device from Motorola unless they change their policies. Sure, HTC also has some restrictions, and you hear people complain about slow updates once in a blue mood, but they are easily the right choice, as the lesser of two evils.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was under the impression that the rooting exploits which worked on Droid variants will work on Milestones too. So its not as u guys suggest. And above all, I am not sure I will get a OTA update from Moto here, as I have never seen a moto phone at stores here. Moto doesnt looks interested in markets here????
AFAIK diff b/w msm8255 (inside HD) and msm7230( in Z) is only the cpu frequency. If it crosses 1GHz then it goes into 8series.
but for the reduced CPU clock we get a phy keyboard with Z. And the reduced 256MB ram and display sizes should help with little less power consumption. may be thats why they included a lesser 1300mAh battery.
well then HTC desire Z is the chosen one form me, if am gonna buy a new one!

Despite this forum is young, this has been discussed previously
The Droid2/Milestone2 is a natural contender for the Desire Z
More news: The "DROID2 PRO" or "DROID2 WORLD EDITION" (Moto A956) will be 1.2GHz - more info and some benchmarks here:
http://www.droid-life.com/2010/09/2...marks-and-system-info-hello-1-2ghz-processor/
The Mileston2/Droid2 beats the Desire Z in every aspect (faster processor, 8 GB RAM, dual LED flash, slightly smaller and lighter... etc) BUT it is motorola, not HTC
HTC has more community support and developers/hackers devoted
Root, bootloader, whatever you name it, HTC will have it first
BUT as I stated in another thread, the Desire Z's 800MHz processor has me wondering if those supposedly "gingerbread (android 3.0) minnimum hardware specs" will be a major issue for a future upgrade to android 3.0
.

gtrab said:
Despite this forum is young, this has been discussed previously
The Droid2/Milestone2 is a natural contender for the Desire Z
More news: The "DROID2 PRO" or "DROID2 WORLD EDITION" (Moto A956) will be 1.2GHz - more info and some benchmarks here:
droid-life.com/2010/09/22/droid-2-global-benchmarks-and-system-info-hello-1-2ghz-processor/
The Mileston2/Droid2 beats the Desire Z in every aspect (faster processor, 8 GB RAM, dual LED flash, slightly smaller and lighter... etc) BUT it is motorola, not HTC
HTC has more community support and developers/hackers devoted
Root, bootloader, whatever you name it, HTC will have it first
BUT as I stated in another thread, the Desire Z's 800MHz processor has me wondering if those supposedly "gingerbread (android 3.0) minnimum hardware specs" will be a major issue for a future upgrade to android 3.0
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
on Gingerbread side I am confident that it will definitely come to Desire Z. even if not official OTA update comes out, its the same CPU core(ARMv7) on HD and on the same chipset family (MSMs) so that should be more than enough for this wonderful community to port it across.
Thanks for pointing to the benchmark results. I ran a quick search for the same benchmark on MSM series and saw this smartphonebenchmarks.com/forum/index.php?/topic/83-msm8255-adreno-205-in-htc-desire-hd-gets-quadrant-benchmark-tested/
this is huge improvement.
you can see more benchmarks here. smartphonebenchmarks.com/
So with the kind of community tweak and fixes Samsung Hummingbird is getting, if it comes to the new gen MSMs we are looking at here, we may see more performance. feel free to say if I am wrong.
regards
Aj700

I used HTC device for over 8years, voice quality never improved, that why I jump to motorola, I need a phone more then a PDA.

It's been said before and I'll say it again. Despite the Droid/Milestone 2 looking like the tastier hardware, their software development and support leaves a lot to be desired.
Most Milestone owners will tell you they won't buy Moto again, despite their awesome hardware, because Moto do not give a sh*t about supporting their phones or bug fixing. Add in the fact the bootloaders are locked down, meaning noone else can fix their mistakes, and it starts to look like their is only one choice - the Desire Z.
I really, really want the Droid 2 World Edition that's coming out - that chrome and white just looks the business in my opinion. But I know I'll be sorry if I buy it.
http://phandroid.com/2010/09/22/dro...d-with-its-own-silver-and-white-color-scheme/

colala said:
I used HTC device for over 8years, voice quality never improved, that why I jump to motorola, I need a phone more then a PDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You must not have upgraded phones in 8 years then, I can tell a huge difference between my Kaiser to my Leo.
Even then, I've yet to use a Motorola phone that doesn't have horrid battery life

aj700 said:
I was under the impression that the rooting exploits which worked on Droid variants will work on Milestones too. So its not as u guys suggest. And above all, I am not sure I will get a OTA update from Moto here, as I have never seen a moto phone at stores here. Moto doesnt looks interested in markets here????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting has nothing to do with custom ROMs and upgradeability. Rooting gives you root, and that's all. Nothing else. You can run apps requiring a superuser (screenshot apps, MarketEnabler,...) and that's it.
Second step in case of Motorola phones with locked bootloader is using a custom userland. That is - you can change anything in phone but the kernel. So you can put a 2.2 UI on top of a 2.1 kernel - but you won't have the JIT and many other cool stuff. And when Google releases 3.0, you won't have that either if some functionality will depend on new kernel. This is the main problem - you can make a semi-cyanogenmod, where you place all UI improvements into a update package, but that's all, it's not 2.2. It's 2.2 UI running on Android 2.1 on Motorola 2.1 kernel.
The last step are full custom ROMs, uncluding custom/new kernels, not made and/or signed by Motorola. This is impossible to do on Motorola phones, which means when Motorola stops providing updates for your phone you won't get any updates from anyone. No community updates, no Motorola updates.
This plus the support speed of Motorola (2.1 released in April, reboot bug fixed in September) makes Motorola a very, very, very, very bad choice. Also ask all DEXT owners what do they think about Motorola support for their phones (aka no Android 2.1 for DEXT).
Simply, Motorola is the evil company in the Android world, and no one should buy their phones. They made their point in non-US markets with DEXT and Milestone and get a lot of bad publicity thanks to this. US market is learning this now with Droid 2 and Droid X, they already got their first batch of bugs specific to Motorola phones which are going to be fixed slooowly (the SMS bug).
So, if you really want the better phone, get the Desire Z. It's not the hardware, but the support which really matters. What is all the better specs of Milestone 2 worth if it is plagued with bugs all over the place.

faugusztin said:
Rooting has nothing to do with custom ROMs and upgradeability. Rooting gives you root, and that's all. Nothing else. You can run apps requiring a superuser (screenshot apps, MarketEnabler,...) and that's it.
Second step in case of Motorola phones with locked bootloader is using a custom userland. That is - you can change anything in phone but the kernel. So you can put a 2.2 UI on top of a 2.1 kernel - but you won't have the JIT and many other cool stuff. And when Google releases 3.0, you won't have that either if some functionality will depend on new kernel. This is the main problem - you can make a semi-cyanogenmod, where you place all UI improvements into a update package, but that's all, it's not 2.2. It's 2.2 UI running on Android 2.1 on Motorola 2.1 kernel.
The last step are full custom ROMs, uncluding custom/new kernels, not made and/or signed by Motorola. This is impossible to do on Motorola phones, which means when Motorola stops providing updates for your phone you won't get any updates from anyone. No community updates, no Motorola updates.
This plus the support speed of Motorola (2.1 released in April, reboot bug fixed in September) makes Motorola a very, very, very, very bad choice. Also ask all DEXT owners what do they think about Motorola support for their phones (aka no Android 2.1 for DEXT).
Simply, Motorola is the evil company in the Android world, and no one should buy their phones. They made their point in non-US markets with DEXT and Milestone and get a lot of bad publicity thanks to this. US market is learning this now with Droid 2 and Droid X, they already got their first batch of bugs specific to Motorola phones which are going to be fixed slooowly (the SMS bug).
So, if you really want the better phone, get the Desire Z. It's not the hardware, but the support which really matters. What is all the better specs of Milestone 2 worth if it is plagued with bugs all over the place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so even with the new SuperOneClick root method, it's still not possible to get custom ROMs on the Droid 2/World Edition? Is this correct?

Given the talk about lockdowns for the T-Mobile G2, is there any reason to suspect the HTC DeeZire Z wont also have lockdowns preventing custom ROMs?

jfwfreo said:
Given the talk about lockdowns for the T-Mobile G2, is there any reason to suspect the HTC DeeZire Z wont also have lockdowns preventing custom ROMs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's hard to tell at this stage..but the device is not T-Mo, so there's hope!

skulk3r said:
so even with the new SuperOneClick root method, it's still not possible to get custom ROMs on the Droid 2/World Edition? Is this correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct. Root gives you only what it says - a root user, a ability to run the su command, ability to use applications requiring superuser privileges.
With all Motorola phones after Motorola Droid 1, you need a ROM with a kernel signed by Motorola private key. That means, you can right now change everything, except the kernel. In case of Milestone 1, you can put 2.2 UI on top of 2.1 kernel. When they will release 2.2 for Milestone 1, you will be probably able to put 3.0 UI on top of 2.2 kernel - but all the improvements at kernel level won't be available to you. For example in case of MotoFrenzy it means "Video Recorder + camera focus/audio" not working. And you will have problems like this every time you use a older kernel with newer UI.
Until someone comes up with a solution (get the key from Motorola, any of the solutions guys at http://and-developers.com/ are trying), any Motorola phone released after Droid 1 is a bad choice, as you are getting only updates from Motorola, and they don't have a good record in this area. Once you are left behind, you are left behind forever, no community support.
Of course HTC G2/Desire Z has it's own set of problems with this unwritable memory causing only a temporary root working, but this case is more likely to be breaked, as it's not key signing, just a hardware lockout, which will be IMHO solved with the first official update if not sooner (because at first update they will have to unlock the memory which is now locked).

faugusztin said:
Simply, Motorola is the evil company in the Android world, and no one should buy their phones...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you haven't tryed Sony Ericsson
at least there are "ROMs" for the motos,
but SE = no SPL, no bootloader, no ROMs for any of their android phones,
not even the xperia x2 got hard SPL
.

is it really a big deal worrying about when a company will stop supporting the phone?? ive been considering a milestone 2 or desire z myself so im interested in a comparision between the two. what difference does it make if motorola stop updates after a year...how often does the average user on here change phones? once a year...maybe 18months..2 years maximum. by then theres another super duper king dong phone out twice as fast lol. so its kind of pointless not buying a phone because motorola/htc/sony etc will stop providing upgrades in a year or two time. we wont have the phone by then! itll be someone elses problem lol. and if u do still have the phone, if they havent solved the major bugs within a year then theres no real hope and u might aswell ditch it and move on anyway.
its more relevant to make the comparison using information available today. most people just want a phone that works out the box, will run a few apps, make calls and wont crash every 10mins which is the better based on the performance, usuability and stablility right now? is the milestone 2 a buggy unusable mess that desperately needs custom roms and fixes? or can the average user quite happily make good use of it in everyday situations without worrying about roms, fixes and patches?

I made a comparison (desire z vs milestone 2)
The milestone 2 beats the D-Z on every aspect, except not being HTC...
Which one will I get ?? Easy:
The first one available with NAM bands
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

looked at afew milestone 2 videos and it actually looks laggy on the touchscreen changing from screens.

anothadave said:
is it really a big deal worrying about when a company will stop supporting the phone?? ive been considering a milestone 2 or desire z myself so im interested in a comparision between the two. what difference does it make if motorola stop updates after a year...how often does the average user on here change phones? once a year...maybe 18months..2 years maximum. by then theres another super duper king dong phone out twice as fast lol. so its kind of pointless not buying a phone because motorola/htc/sony etc will stop providing upgrades in a year or two time. we wont have the phone by then! itll be someone elses problem lol. and if u do still have the phone, if they havent solved the major bugs within a year then theres no real hope and u might aswell ditch it and move on anyway.
its more relevant to make the comparison using information available today. most people just want a phone that works out the box, will run a few apps, make calls and wont crash every 10mins which is the better based on the performance, usuability and stablility right now? is the milestone 2 a buggy unusable mess that desperately needs custom roms and fixes? or can the average user quite happily make good use of it in everyday situations without worrying about roms, fixes and patches?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's pretty much the philosophy that most phone companies are selling their phones on today - and it's not incorrect! In fact, for most users, having the phone "just work" (even with some minor performance issues) is okay..in fact, the phone can still be great! (just look at the iPhone)
but xda-devs is a forum where a lot of the "hard-core" phone or "enthusiasts" go to try and squeeze everything out of their devices -which is why rooting and custom ROMs are in demand. My Touch HD would have been binned about 6 months ago were it not for the custom ROMs and mods that came out and made it a completely new and interesting device every 2 weeks. So that's why being able to flash a custom ROM on my future device is important - and that's why Desire Z is winning me over the Milestone 2..plus, 800MHz will /probably/ be overclocked to 1GHz+ and the performance benchmarks so far have been amazing

[Frustration]Motorola Still has not learnt the lesson

Yes, i am really frustrated.....
Motorola still has not learnt the lesson.......
being a loyal and long android user, i always preferred for latest os on my devices .....
being an European android user i always feel ditched with motorola.....
locked bootloader with milestone and worst support from moto.....
and now Asus is able to give custom 3.1 to transfomer users and still Euro xoom owners has no luck to see 3.1 on our stock android xoom.....
how many years do moto need to provide the update where one XDA dev can do it in 1 day???
WTF?
only where i am happy is that we have the support of this greatest community but still ignored and ditched my Moto always.......
i can get 3.1 by unlocking xoom and with support of awesome XDA but moto voids the warranty and they don't want to provide the update themselves....so what is it?
when will Moto learn the lesson or do they deliberately ignore Non-US area?
*if anyone feel that my frustration is meaningless and moto is great, always welcome to delete this thread....sorry and thank you

chowdarygm said:
Yes, i am really frustrated.....
Motorola still has not learnt the lesson.......
being a loyal and long android user, i always preferred for latest os on my devices .....
being an European android user i always feel ditched with motorola.....
locked bootloader with milestone and worst support from moto.....
and now Asus is able to give custom 3.1 to transfomer users and still Euro xoom owners has no luck to see 3.1 on our stock android xoom.....
how many years do moto need to provide the update where one XDA dev can do it in 1 day???
WTF?
only where i am happy is that we have the support of this greatest community but still ignored and ditched my Moto always.......
i can get 3.1 by unlocking xoom and with support of awesome XDA but moto voids the warranty and they don't want to provide the update themselves....so what is it?
when will Moto learn the lesson or do they deliberately ignore Non-US area?
*if anyone feel that my frustration is meaningless and moto is great, always welcome to delete this thread....sorry and thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have MOTO but 4 of my friends do I can see the frustration even in the atrix users due to being locked up tight I'm sure many devs feel the same in there forum .
That's why I took my frustrations to the company direct HTC but I know thousands have to MOTO with no response it seems people say they will u lock end quart 4 this year maybe .. I think you can try your best to get them to do something I support anyone who wishes to make these huge companies see the consumer is what is most important ..
Xda is amazing I've been using 2.3.3 or a ginger based rom for a while people on HTC fb still asking for ota updates for the EVO 4g ..
So either keep on going after MOTO or hope the devs can make something happen..
Oh and nothing will happen till you get them to really hear your voice best of luck ..
virus kingdom port b112

I'm still on the fence with regards to buying a tablet, but the lack of European support from Motorola isn't doing them any favours as far as my decision is concerned.

The lack of support for euro xoom is pathetic, this is my first Motorola for years and I would not have brought it if I had realised this was the situation.

madpete said:
The lack of support for euro xoom is pathetic, this is my first Motorola for years and I would not have brought it if I had realised this was the situation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while buying this, i convinced my wife that moto will have better support than acer or Asus.... but i am wrong now....moto is the worst i have ever used...

chowdarygm said:
while buying this, i convinced my wife that moto will have better support than acer or Asus.... but i am wrong now....moto is the worst i have ever used...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try taking all this that you all dislike and send it all to MOTO Idk that's what i did to start with HTC it pissed me off we pay so much pay monthly fees and they do what give us no feedback as to why there system of updates is horrible
virus kingdom port b112

My situation:
Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1
Still no UK price or confirmed spec, desperately waiting for some news on this. Have a feeling that it's going to be too expensive but who knows?
Motorola Xoom
Love the build quality and that's got my interest, not sure that I'll be satisfied with the display. There appears to be limited Euro support (bad Motorola!) and not so much activity in the dev section for Euro Xooms. Quite expensive.
Asus Transformer
Ex TF owner due to what I consider poor build quality, but I still haven't dismissed buying another so long as I can get a good one. Good spec, decent price in comparison. Asus appear to be quite supportive with updates, dev section looks quite active.
What to do!

UKseagull said:
My situation:
Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1
Still no UK price or confirmed spec, desperately waiting for some news on this. Have a feeling that it's going to be too expensive but who knows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Galaxt tab 10.1v in stocks in germany for 500 euros.....200 euro cheaper than xoom

I think the 10.1v is the older version with the 8 megapixel camera, thanks for the link though.

For European, choose Samsung... or HTC. And of course ASUS
chowdarygm said:
Yes, i am really frustrated.....
Motorola still has not learnt the lesson.......
being a loyal and long android user, i always preferred for latest os on my devices .....
being an European android user i always feel ditched with motorola.....
locked bootloader with milestone and worst support from moto.....
and now Asus is able to give custom 3.1 to transfomer users and still Euro xoom owners has no luck to see 3.1 on our stock android xoom.....
how many years do moto need to provide the update where one XDA dev can do it in 1 day???
WTF?
only where i am happy is that we have the support of this greatest community but still ignored and ditched my Moto always.......
i can get 3.1 by unlocking xoom and with support of awesome XDA but moto voids the warranty and they don't want to provide the update themselves....so what is it?
when will Moto learn the lesson or do they deliberately ignore Non-US area?
*if anyone feel that my frustration is meaningless and moto is great, always welcome to delete this thread....sorry and thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

It is kind of odd bc Samsung seemed to be the opposite when I was with them.

The update has only been available in the states for 5 minutes, so what's the big deal?
Also as the stock Android device, isn't Google responsible for the Xoom updates, not Moto?
It's the same process of all manufacturers to roll out updates by region.
It could be a lot worse, take Samsung for example, it took them about 7 months just to roll out Froyo to their Galaxy S handsets, then another 6 months for Gingerbread.

My European HTC Desire is still using Froyo
Philio25 said:
The update has only been available in the states for 5 minutes, so what's the big deal?
Also as the stock Android device, isn't Google responsible for the Xoom updates, not Moto?
It's the same process of all manufacturers to roll out updates by region.
It could be a lot worse, take Samsung for example, it took them about 7 months just to roll out Froyo to their Galaxy S handsets, then another 6 months for Gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

to everyone.... one thing i don't understand here....
motorola talk about difference in hardware and software based of regions bla bla bla bla.... how the hell Apple is able to rollout anything for every apple device at once.....i dont understand the point here.......can anyone explain me?
i read on moto forums that its google's fault in not releasing 3.1 for euro xoom and moto has not to be blamed!!!!!!!!! WTH
how is samsung and acer are able to already customise it and release it???
stupid reasons ....
i am starting to loose my patience now seeing how moto is treating and telling meaningless reasons....

Philio25 said:
The update has only been available in the states for 5 minutes, so what's the big deal?
Also as the stock Android device, isn't Google responsible for the Xoom updates, not Moto?
It's the same process of all manufacturers to roll out updates by region.
It could be a lot worse, take Samsung for example, it took them about 7 months just to roll out Froyo to their Galaxy S handsets, then another 6 months for Gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 3G US Xoom update has been out for 2 weeks now. The big deal is the update includes fixes for long lists of bugs for 3.01, which is not the most stable OS to start with. I don’t want my Xoom running on older and buggier software for any length of time more than necessary.
As a customer, I don’t care who is responsible for the update. I expect my device to be update in a timely manner like IOS/Windows desktop. If Motorola/Google cannot deliver on this, than I’ll simply choose a different manufacture or operating system for my next device.
Those updates are for new operating system, like you said Eclair and Gingerbread. We are talking about an update within Honeycomb, so its not a fair comparison.
Bottom line, I'm also frustrated with no 3.1 update outside of US, and no time line on when we will get it.

Did Motorola say that?
You bought the XOOM from Motorola, so no matter what... Motorola is responsible for the update!
chowdarygm said:
to everyone.... one thing i don't understand here....
motorola talk about difference in hardware and software based of regions bla bla bla bla.... how the hell Apple is able to rollout anything for every apple device at once.....i dont understand the point here.......can anyone explain me?
i read on moto forums that its google's fault in not releasing 3.1 for euro xoom and moto has not to be blamed!!!!!!!!! WTH
how is samsung and acer are able to already customise it and release it???
stupid reasons ....
i am starting to loose my patience now seeing how moto is treating and telling meaningless reasons....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

Xoom in Europe is different, its GSM not CDMA like the US.
The iPhone argument does not hold water either. The Verizon iPhone doesn't have 4.3 which has been out for months, the difference between the two phones is the same as the difference between US and non US, the radio.

FtL1776 said:
Xoom in Europe is different, its GSM not CDMA like the US.
The iPhone argument does not hold water either. The Verizon iPhone doesn't have 4.3 which has been out for months, the difference between the two phones is the same as the difference between US and non US, the radio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if it is only the radio, is it that difficult to change those lines of code and and send the update? how was it achieved very simply by our own devs in a day without access to advanced tools........
sorry guys, i am so frustrated now coz, my SGS2 is able to play 720p and 1080p butter smooth where as i am struggling to do basic things with moto 700 euro brick .....

Just like Samsung is horrible with updates in the U.S.
I'm in Canada so Motorola is horrible with updates as expected.
I guess short Moto's stock and become rich.

I'm a french user, got a Xoom Wifi only (MZ604), and i'm also hoping for a 3.1 update soon...
Wanna try to flash US stock image, but Motorola didn't release stock images for EU users, so i wont be able to relock it... and in case of problem, i'll got a brick without these images...
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

Share the news CM10 is out!!!

Hi all,
Wanted to share this exciting news and hope that our devs will start working on this.
http://androidcommunity.com/cyanogenmod-10-will-bring-jelly-bean-to-many-20120705/
Jelly Bean source is expected to be released by the end of the month.
Anyone hungry for more desert?
Sent from my MotoA953

that is really an exciting news
can't wait the release of jb!
Sent from my MotoA953 using xda app-developers app

yes!:laugh: cant wait!

And the code is out. Cranck up your machines and let the fun begin....
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/android-4-1-jelly-bean-source-code-released-to-aosp/

I read elsewhere the differences between JB and ICS weren't really large, so it should be "easy" (as easy as something as complex can be ) to port ICS working devices to JB.
I would love that, the longer my phone last, the happyer i am.

Looks like CM already started working on JB
http://androidcommunity.com/cyanogenmod-updates-their-status-on-cm10-jelly-bean-20120710/
which is a good new, I hope, one of our devs will take an interest on porting one to MS2, although it's a little premature for that.

Megalith27 said:
Looks like CM already started working on JB
http://androidcommunity.com/cyanogenmod-updates-their-status-on-cm10-jelly-bean-20120710/
which is a good new, I hope, one of our devs will take an interest on porting one to MS2, although it's a little premature for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it's a bit "premature", but we will probably get it in time.
If i'm not mistaken, we had ICS on our phones before the official version was available for MS4.... it speaks a lot of the "proficiency" and understanding of products of Motorola devs...

Ashareth said:
Yeah it's a bit "premature", but we will probably get it in time.
If i'm not mistaken, we had ICS on our phones before the official version was available for MS4.... it speaks a lot of the "proficiency" and understanding of products of Motorola devs...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moto now should do, as they promised. Unlock boot loaders fro mobiles, which they won't support ....
Sent from my MotoA953 using xda app-developers app

_panter said:
Moto now should do, as they promised. Unlock boot loaders fro mobiles, which they won't support ....
Sent from my MotoA953 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, according to this:http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-coming-soon-20120711/
Moto just promised to "try" to unlock BL what they were doing for the last couple of years but time will show, i guess...

Megalith27 said:
Well, according to this:http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-coming-soon-20120711/
Moto just promised to "try" to unlock BL what they were doing for the last couple of years but time will show, i guess...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm always "reassured" by people BUILDING/CREATING AND SELLING PRODUCTS when they explain to you they can "try" to do something that is super easy, and haven't made the slightest progress in 1 year and a half on it.
It makes you want to believe they are able to do more complex things on their products without botching it... not.

Megalith27 said:
Well, according to this:http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-coming-soon-20120711/
Moto just promised to "try" to unlock BL what they were doing for the last couple of years but time will show, i guess...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We can understand why we won’t be holding our breathes...

Looks like the ball had already started rolling on Defy front
Which is a good sign for Moto community and especially for us. Time to hold your breath.

Megalith27 said:
Looks like the ball had already started rolling on Defy front
Which is a good sign for Moto community and especially for us. Time to hold your breath.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or not.
It's not like we don't have our hands full finding new bugs on the CM9 port already... (yeah i know, there is not much, and most of them are known already ).
And there is still quite some functionality of CM9 to be merged too, like themes support and so on.
But yeah, it's a good thing people already started working on JB/CM/10 port (makes you wonder what the overpaid devs working for constructors/operators are doing in their days, since having access to far more than us, and not having to work with the locked bootloader restrictions, they still haven't ported most of their december 2011 devices to ICS... ).
Hell at that rythm, MS2 will have JB before the official ICS hits the MS4...

Ashareth said:
Or not.
It's not like we don't have our hands full finding new bugs on the CM9 port already... (yeah i know, there is not much, and most of them are known already ).
And there is still quite some functionality of CM9 to be merged too, like themes support and so on.
But yeah, it's a good thing people already started working on JB/CM/10 port (makes you wonder what the overpaid devs working for constructors/operators are doing in their days, since having access to far more than us, and not having to work with the locked bootloader restrictions, they still haven't ported most of their december 2011 devices to ICS... ).
Hell at that rythm, MS2 will have JB before the official ICS hits the MS4...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta love your optimism, buddy
But I think, Alex is doing an amazing job of taking ownership of CM9 and tiding things up. I read on his tweet that he has resloved the flash conflict issue, so we may be getting an update this weekend. (hopefully)
Regarding HW keypad, read your post on CM9 thread, I'll have a look into that when I'll be home and have all my tools. I use qwerty, so I fixed the file for my own convenience to be able to have caps lock on double press of shift button.
But, you're most certainly right, it's not like we will have JB working from day one and it's gonna take a lot of effort by our devs to make MS2 stand tall in front of the big boys lol afterall this is probably the best hw keypad device in the market.
And for now we just can watch closely how thing are developing for Defy

Megalith27 said:
Gotta love your optimism, buddy
But I think, Alex is doing an amazing job of taking ownership of CM9 and tiding things up. I read on his tweet that he has resloved the flash conflict issue, so we may be getting an update this weekend. (hopefully)
Regarding HW keypad, read your post on CM9 thread, I'll have a look into that when I'll be home and have all my tools. I use qwerty, so I fixed the file for my own convenience to be able to have caps lock on double press of shift button.
But, you're most certainly right, it's not like we will have JB working from day one and it's gonna take a lot of effort by our devs to make MS2 stand tall in front of the big boys lol afterall this is probably the best hw keypad device in the market.
And for now we just can watch closely how thing are developing for Defy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being optimistic is nice sometimes, and it's quite easy when people like Alex works so fast AND pretty much everything unlock around the same time (in a short time we had the camera, the 720p decoding (and encoding i think) and hwa unlocked for our phones ), but yeah, i know it'll take time, but i'm not in a hurry anyway, my phone is more than usable on a daily basis for what i do, everything else is "added benefits".
For the keyboard, if you can find how to change that, and explain to me how to do it, i would be glad.

do you think there will be ever some release for ms2?

mondkrater said:
do you think there will be ever some release for ms2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The code is very similar to ICS so the cyanogen team think any phone that can run CM9 will probably be able to run CM10, which is promising
Sent from my MotoA953 using xda app-developers app

Quarx on Defy front is on fire!!! He managed to make audio work with some help from other devs and also video recording.
I am saying by Friday he will have complete pre-alpha version of CM10 for Defy.
Hard to explain but I am kinda excited, although I get an impression that Defy sees more love from devs than our MS2 and can't find a reason why

Megalith27 said:
Quarx on Defy front is on fire!!! He managed to make audio work with some help from other devs and also video recording.
I am saying by Friday he will have complete pre-alpha version of CM10 for Defy.
Hard to explain but I am kinda excited, although I get an impression that Defy sees more love from devs than our MS2 and can't find a reason why
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's good news.
Quite some reasons actually for the far more active Defy :
- there is far less versions of it (he don't have like 3/4 versions just for the countries outside the US ), and from what i've read, the Defy is roughly the same everywhere, unlike the Droid2/Droid 2 Global/MS2
- there wasn't the "oops, you can't downgrade anymore" update on it i think
- it's a more "mainstream" phone than the Droid lines (strangely, the phones with hardware keyboards are "niche" phones, wonder why when they are similar in price, size and perfs to non hw ones )
But hey, good thing the MS lines of phones share so much hardware and similarities with other more active phones like Defy/Atrix, makes it easier for us having something working.