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Ok, I will try to keep this short...I just thought this was kinda weird.....
I called to return my phone today, and when they asked if I had any other issues with it (besides the back cover not lining up with the phone) I said yes..and I described how the screen does not let you have two fingers on the same axis and gave them this example: when I was playing 'Prince of Persia' and it had the direction buttons on the lower left of the screen and across on the lower right of the screen were the other 'action buttons' and when I press both they either both do not work or only one will work. Now the rep said 'Oh, well that is because the nexus one does not have multi touch...it has pinch to zoom' ...in my mind I was like "wth?" haha, but is this just their excuse for the Synaptic touch sensor? It seems more as though they are trying to justify it instead of owning up to it...well my response was refering to the Htc incredible and the Supersonic which have new touch sensors that work better and I said I had wished the nexus one had the same...the rep said she was not aware of an update for the problem, but it is not out of the question...(I wondered if she realized I was talking about hardware not software, although hardware can be updated as well just not as easily...)...
Umm I'm not sure how much that tech actually knows, because I was playing a game on my N1....idr the name of it but it was a first-person shooter, and I was able to use the on-screen movement controls AND look around by dragging my finger across the screen at the same time.
I think that's because they are on two different horizontal axes.
N1 can detect TWO touch points at the same time, and thats according to the touch sensor manufacturer. I think the game, Prince of Persia, is not efficient enough for detecting two points at the same time. We should wait till 19th May and see what Google brings for gaming scene on android...
yeah the update is right around the corner, so i would be curious to see if it fixes that issue.
but i would not expect some customer service rep to know a damn thing about the Y-axis issue or what model the touch screen is synaptics clearpad 2000. you're giving them way too much credit. they just know it has pinch to zoom, and that's the end of it.
anyway that game should work OK using 2 touch points, but i havent tried it to know for sure. i have seen that there are other games that use 2 points and they work fine. i guess the game crosses the Y-axis is when it would not work, but i didnt know any type of those games exist yet. i admit it sucks that this limitation is present.
The error occurs if the two fingers are on the same axis ...i.e. horizontal / vertical from each other ...but if it is diagonal it should work...even slightly diagonal should work unless the two points get close to each others axis....this is not a software issue and I surely would love to see it fixed with a software update but I doubt this will be so...only time will tell.....now I would not blame it on Prince of Persia...check other games with the same control layout and see how it works...or even try something without the same layout and just use one control and touch your finger on the same axis of the control and you will see the error occur....
It sucks, a BRAND NEW 2010 phone, over $500....and yet cannot even use proper multitouch...even my old iphone 2g works better in the multitouch aspect....(sad and disappointing) ...it has all these nice specs but the multi touch aspect kills it for me...
People expecting the N1 to not have any quirks make me laugh
ap3604 said:
People expecting the N1 to not have any quirks make me laugh
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so you are fine that a piece of hardware made 3 years ago out performs this new one? That is something that you normally expect eh?....hmm " " ....
erebusting said:
so you are fine that a piece of hardware made 3 years ago out performs this new one? That is something that you normally expect eh?....hmm " " ....
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Well actually I am.. but that's because I don't play poorly made games on my phone, at least not ones that require multi touch, and even then.. it doesn't really mess up though :/
If there are games that are actually made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.. then maybe I will then know your pain. Other than that, apps and etc. are pretty fine.
erebusting said:
so you are fine that a piece of hardware made 3 years ago out performs this new one? That is something that you normally expect eh?....hmm " " ....
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yes i am totally fine with it. maybe i live in reality but this minor design issue is NOTHING to worry about. i think some people are not well adjusted to the world....
RogerPodacter said:
yes i am totally fine with it. maybe i live in reality but this minor design issue is NOTHING to worry about. i think some people are not well adjusted to the world....
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your eggagerated response is funny, you live in 'reality' where you would pay top dollar for something supposedly top notch, but I think in REAL reality you would want the best for your money....basically would you pay $2.00 for a Ferrari/MaxTouch sensor or $2.00 for a pinto/Synaptic touch sensor ...... why not get the most for your money? are you just trying to make yourself feel better about the phone your are now basically stuck with?
Eclair~ said:
Well actually I am.. but that's because I don't play poorly made games on my phone, at least not ones that require multi touch, and even then.. it doesn't really mess up though :/
If there are games that are actually made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.. then maybe I will then know your pain. Other than that, apps and etc. are pretty fine.
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wth are you talking about...'made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.'...? this is a hardware issue, how does it matter how good or bad the game is made, the hardware supersedes the software in this case....
I guess the real thing is, as long as you are all happy with your non multi touch phone/ the 'pinch to zoom' phone...
haha
yes i am totally fine with it. maybe i live in reality but this minor design issue is NOTHING to worry about. i think some people are not well adjusted to the world....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your eggagerated response is funny, you live in 'reality' where you would pay top dollar for something supposedly top notch, but I think in REAL reality you would want the best for your money....basically would you pay $2.00 for a Ferrari/MaxTouch sensor or $2.00 for a pinto/Synaptic touch sensor ...... why not get the most for your money? are you just trying to make yourself feel better about the phone your are now basically stuck with?
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I don't know why you think the nexus price is any different than any other smartphone. its actually cheaper than most smartphones.
my response is not exaggerated at all. I'm happy with my phone 100%.
RogerPodacter said:
I don't know why you think the nexus price is any different than any other smartphone. its actually cheaper than most smartphones.
my response is not exaggerated at all. I'm happy with my phone 100%.
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well that is not what the discussion was about now any ways right(the price)...the price is another issue, but for being the same price as about any other smartphone while some of those smart phones can do proper multitouch and with the same or better specs, why would you want to limit yourself if you could choose the best...
disregard the exaggerated comment because it just brings up another discussion for another day
just answer this...
wouldnt you want the best you can get for the hard earned money you spend?
I understand this phone is great...I believe it should have been at least a little bit better than what it came out to be...
i can't think of two (one isn't really worth the think) reasons for a multi-touch sensor. pinch/zoom seems to work well for maps and pictures. not being a gamer means a good deal of drama is lost on me i suppose.
as far as the price of the n1, and being 'stuck' with the phone... that's laughable. anyone can sell their n1 TONIGHT on ebay or craigslist for 100% of what they paid for it from google, and then some in certain cases. smart phones co$t MONEY. beit an iphone, n1, n97, or whatever is going to be badass next summer. i _LIKE_ the idea of buying off contract, using a NO CONTRACT carrier, and selling/leaving when i want.
should a N1 come out for att/whoever without contract, with a sweet keyboard like the G1, i'd switch overnight. water proof ? i'm there. 12 mp camera with HD and a gig of rom space ? sweet.
this is more a rant thread than a progress in motion thread. if you feel you've been wronged or led by false advertising, sell your phone. get one that does everything you have to have. i don't recall anyone saying "holy **** it haz multi-touch i gotta haz it !!!!!" when the n1 was released.
that was much longer than i expected. shoulda just said "lol" and left it.
erebusting said:
wth are you talking about...'made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.'...? this is a hardware issue, how does it matter how good or bad the game is made, the hardware supersedes the software in this case....
I guess the real thing is, as long as you are all happy with your non multi touch phone/ the 'pinch to zoom' phone...
haha
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Click to collapse
When I said made with quality, I was saying how much quality are put into Android's games. I was referring nothing to hardware issues.
Most Android games (to me) are horrible little 2D games that get boring in a few minutes. I don't even really "want" to play them, so therefore I don't need a complicated multi touch system until 'quality' games are made. Games that are worth playing for more than a few seconds, sadly to say, iPhone type games. Google is trying, though.
The only application that "plays" the games I want to play is GameBoid, where the multi-touch works perfectly. I can hold down a directional input, along with B, or A, and reform actions that result in those two presses perfectly. Such as running.
You seem to love to whine though, you did pay a lot for this phone though, I guess I would be pissed if this really mattered to me as well. Right now I'm like "whatever, who cares". It does what I want..
I don't know why you think the nexus price is any different than any other smartphone. its actually cheaper than most smartphones.
my response is no
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well that is not what the discussion was about now any ways right(the price)...the price is another issue, but for being the same price as about any other smartphone while some of those smart phones can do proper multitouch and with the same or better specs, why would you want to limit yourself if you could choose the best...
disregard the exaggerated comment because it just brings up another discussion for another day
just answer this...
wouldnt you want the best you can get for the hard earned money you spend?
I understand this phone is great...I believe it should have been at least a little bit better than what it came out to be...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've owned so many phones in my life, and every single one of them had some type of issue, defect, missing feature, or whatever. if the only complaint about the nexus is this one minor issue, than I say its a winner.
great so the original iPhone could do it, but it couldn't do pics with a flash, or copy/paste, or mms. so what scenario is better/worse? I say the nexus is the better situation by leaps and bounds.
if this issue is important to you then you should switch phones. for me its not that important. my Nokia n97 had a faulty camera lens issue that scratched itself when opening. every phone has its quirks. if the nexus ones quirk is this Y axis issue, then I proclaim we all are winners with such a minor issue.
erebusting said:
so you are fine that a piece of hardware made 3 years ago out performs this new one? That is something that you normally expect eh?....hmm " " ....
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and it took the iphone how long until they got copy and Paste? that wait winMo had since the ipaq days
or wait MMS?
hm whatever? does it do bluetooth file transfers yet? without needing alternative programs?
even myk750 from sony does bluetooth lol
habs101 said:
and it took the iphone how long until they got copy and Paste? that wait winMo had since the ipaq days
or wait MMS?
hm whatever? does it do bluetooth file transfers yet? without needing alternative programs?
even myk750 from sony does bluetooth lol
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lol that is not the point, I was just saying that when I heard it was able to do multi touch I thought it was going to be like the iPhone's multitouch ...since that tech is now older tech I thought it was implied that it would have equal or better multi touch especially since everything else is definately better...The iPhone was a competitor for a while there and you would think they would have beefed up the multitouch (or at least made it on par) since they beefed up every other aspect....
haha damn, this IS becomming a 'rant' thread...sorry on my behalf for that didn't mean for it to come to that ...I am irritating myself right now with this thread... I just wanted to bring up what the rep had said it was kind of odd to hear that....but the issue she was referring to is something that bugs me..
Now in reference to the gba emulator comment, I haven't tried it but the SNES emu works fine (it has the directional pad diagonally across from the buttons, so it does not suffer from the so called 'y axis' error)
BTW I have some Nexus Cases, anyone interested ?
erebusting said:
wth are you talking about...'made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.'...? this is a hardware issue, how does it matter how good or bad the game is made, the hardware supersedes the software in this case....
I guess the real thing is, as long as you are all happy with your non multi touch phone/ the 'pinch to zoom' phone...
haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, go get the best you can get for your money, i guess. Some people are satisfied with their nexus ones (nexii?)
erebusting said:
lol that is not the point, I was just saying that when I heard it was able to do multi touch I thought it was going to be like the iPhone's multitouch ...since that tech is now older tech I thought it was implied that it would have equal or better multi touch especially since everything else is definately better...The iPhone was a competitor for a while there and you would think they would have beefed up the multitouch (or at least made it on par) since they beefed up every other aspect....
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Click to collapse
The iphone and the nexus are not competitors, strictly speaking. The devices are competing in different classes. If you feel that they are, you could probably do some research, which would give you a good idea of how they compare.
Less ranting please.
About a week ago, I sent an email to all the HTC brass inquiring about the 30FPS cap that most of us are familiar with. An hour later, I received a "canned response", from one of their customer service reps assuring me that this was done "on purpose" to maximize battery life as well as enhance the user experience.
Story short, Keith Nowak, presumably a high ranking HTC exec, sent me back an email with a lengthy explanation of why the cap was in place. I was originally going to write a story about it for the blog I work for, however, it just doesn't seem worth it now since the information he's given me is basically the same thing that some of us have speculated. Interestingly enough however, he did retract the battery saving and user experience comments that I was first given.
Anyways, check it out:
Hi Adam-
My apologies for the delay in responding, we were investigating this issue, and I wanted to be sure I understood all of the facts before I responded.
Regarding the 30 FPS limitation on the HTC EVO 4G. This is simply a limitation of the hardware used in the device. The HDMI output that delivers HD content is, as you would expect, very resource intense, and as such, puts a limit on the output that can be used for the main display. However, even though there is a 30 FPS limitation, this is roughly equivalent to what most video content (TV and movies) is filmed in (24-30 FPS), meaning that in the vast majority of cases, this is not going to pose any issues for end users.
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
I am not sure where information regarding “enhancing the user experience” or “maximize battery life” – but if it came from HTC, please let me know, and we will address the issue, as this is not correct information.
Best-
Keith Nowak
HTC
infamousjax said:
Hi Adam-
My apologies for the delay in responding, we were investigating this issue, and I wanted to be sure I understood all of the facts before I responded.
Regarding the 30 FPS limitation on the HTC EVO 4G. This is simply a limitation of the hardware used in the device. The HDMI output that delivers HD content is, as you would expect, very resource intense, and as such, puts a limit on the output that can be used for the main display. However, even though there is a 30 FPS limitation, this is roughly equivalent to what most video content (TV and movies) is filmed in (24-30 FPS), meaning that in the vast majority of cases, this is not going to pose any issues for end users.
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
I am not sure where information regarding “enhancing the user experience” or “maximize battery life” – but if it came from HTC, please let me know, and we will address the issue, as this is not correct information.
Best-
Keith Nowak
HTC
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Click to collapse
That is a downright lie. It is something he is simple overemphasizing about vsync issues with the Epson panel, which will be fixed because the devs here are hard at work.
Sure, it is a dirty hack, but the current method works fine. Completely, smooth and superb 'image quality,' and it makes it LESS choppy.
Hmm, they should just release all their sorce code so the devs here can tear it apart.
..yeahhh..i'm not one to be quick to call bs, but come on! I'm running ffolkes Novatek kernel on Fresh 0.5.3 and again, maybe it is just some "hack"..but bottom line is the difference is night and day! The response time is outta this world!
Sounds to me like he has no tech background, and that response was something that he was told to say. I wouldn't imagine at his position he would know the insides of phones and how they work or can be manipulated.
OP, you should reply back asking why use/waste all the resources on a feature that won't be used on a daily basis (maybe once or twice a month, if at all).
OP, if you do reply back. Consider including a link to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjTo602sQM
That is nothing but improvement in display quality right there.
Video is from this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713311
infamousjax said:
We have seen reports of a hack that purports to “fix” this, but after investigation, it turns out that this hack is simply allowing data to be pushed through the display interface at a higher speed than it can reasonably handle – resulting in, as you would expect, a choppy, unacceptable image of very poor quality.
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Click to collapse
Bull****. I made the video proving it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjTo602sQM
Tell Keith to salvage his credibility he needs to produce an honest answer. Ask him if he wants to see my run Youtube, or an mp4 video, or anything else, to drop me a line. I'll be happy to continue demonstrating how wrong he is.
The topic on HTC's forum is on page 10. Let's make sure it stays on the front page so support realizes it's a huge customer issue.
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/94/t/3186.aspx
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
This makes me sad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilx_cpGZczM
TorxT3D said:
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
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Really? Are you being serious? They are trying to help us, how? First, according to them, they are tying up all the resources due to HDMI, which may be a great feature, but is not going to be used by many at all. Second, yeah, they have been doing a great job so far, RIGHT. I guess that's why the Evo had the light leaks, screen separations, other issues as well with the phone so far like bad wifi signal and poor battery.
If they really want to help, they would have released the source code already.
KERKEDAGAIN said:
..yeahhh..i'm not one to be quick to call bs, but come on! I'm running ffolkes Novatek kernel on Fresh 0.5.3 and again, maybe it is just some "hack"..but bottom line is the difference is night and day! The response time is outta this world!
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Click to collapse
where can i get this "hacked" kernel from and will it kill the camera ?
The last HTC rep I spoke to has assured me that they're working on a fix for the 30FPS cap.
TorxT3D said:
c'mon, lets not start grilling and roasting htc execs. These people are trying to help us and have been very informative on assisting us with this NEW device.
chances are, like said above, he probably forwarded the email directly to the engineering department (probably to someone we cant directly connect with) and got this answer.
i say, to knock it off with all the pushing and shoving of the FPS issue, and lets not end up on their bad side. Theyve been doing a great job so far. If the devs simplify and figure out a better way for us to maximize FPS, then so be it... Its not worth calling people liars and dishonesty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I am all for better FPS - but even with 30 fps can you honestly tell me you can tell the gears moving better? I can't tell. I have tried both. I went back to another ROM and its not enabled. I can't tell. I get smooth movement. I am not overclocked and my quadrant on 2.1 with no JIT, etc. is around 590.
I get 30fps on gears and 25.1FPS on NeoCore but without seeing those numbers I could not tell the difference between the two in regards to better frames. I have ran both. The only difference for me is the Froyo 2.2 EVOA which is smoother in screen transitions and can multi-task much better in regards to updating and installing severals apps at a time. Otherwise video has yet to create a margin that is noticeable to me.
It has nothing to do with gears moving faster and if you had applied the 30 fps breaking kernel you would see that everything in the os is snappier including scrolling, touch lag etc..
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
jblazea50 said:
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
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Works just fine on the new OTA...
jblazea50 said:
If they really want to help, they would have released the source code already.
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Seriously. We need to just stop asking for a 30FPS cap fix and just keep asking for the source code because honestly, with the source code the devs could just fix most, if not all of this crap already.
jblazea50 said:
you could just try to play a simple game like doodle jump and you'll notice the difference immediately
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I do - I enjoy that game for a while now. I have it loaded on every ROM along with Robo Defense.
What is the BIG difference?
I notice little things about everything so when improvement is made I make comments. But there hasn't been much improvement in that area.
The camera much snappier and the pictures are much better in daylight. I took some great pictures to test at High Resolution and I am impressed with the camera. Before it was just so-so but now some of the pictures of the same images are greatly improved upon for sharpness and color saturation.
See so I do notice differences - perhaps not in the FPS but in other things
I know this has been said again and again, but I just have to put my opinion out there..
To realize what provoked this thread see here and a benchmark test on youtube where the evo gets pwnt by the nexus one and droid x on so many levels.
HTC claims that the reason EVERY other android phone can get twice as much frames per second as us is because they don't have an HDMI port..
Did they really think that was gonna fly?
I'd gladly never use my hdmi port to have smooth as butter 60FPS.. and to set the record straight we DO notice the difference.
At the very least they could have imposed the limit only when content is being output via hdmi!
I cannot understand how they thought we'd sit back and allow this.
Android is the home of nerds, enthusiasts, overclockers, benchmarkers and rom chefs.
This isn't the typical iphone userbase, we notice a lack of performance and inefficiency.
Both of which our phones are in no short supply of..
Our tests and kernel tweaks have proved that this DEFECT can be bypassed, so why are they still going on about hardware limitations?
How come our PREMIUM phones that we have to pay an extra 10 bucks per month just to own, can't even catch up to the very first android phone (G1) in terms of 2D FPS?
How come everybody else is capable of 60fps while we with our "revolutionary multimedia phones" can't even churn out anything past 30FPS without tweaks, and hacks, and best of all voiding our warranties.
It's ****ing blasphemy I tell you.
How about a rom that allows for disabling of hdmi?
I don't know just how ingrained it is with the snapdragon CPU or more likely the gpu, but it's surely possible.
I mean how many of us would've gotten these phones if we knew it was either hdmi or 60fps?
Hdmi has nothing to do with the cap.
This belongs here:
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=699290
topdnbass said:
HTC claims that the reason EVERY other android phone can get twice as much frames per second as us is because they don't have an HDMI port..
Did they really think that was gonna fly?
I'd gladly never use my hdmi port to have smooth as butter 60FPS.. and to set the record straight we DO notice the difference.
At the very least they could have imposed the limit only when content is being output via hdmi! <-That should be a poll option
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Aridon said:
Hdmi has nothing to do with the cap.
This belongs here:
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=699290
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Click to collapse
HDMI is their excuse isn't it, Droid X has HDMI will it always be limited to 30FPS?
Personally, I'd rather loose battery life and HDMI (never going to use that ****) output for no lag and better performance.
At least give us the option, HTC.
For the most part HDMI out, is a "feature for friends".
I don't think that many of us are ACTUALLY using this often.
I mean it's nice to have and i'm sure it can come into handy one day, but not at this expense!
Hdmi has nothing to do with the cap.
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Click to collapse
According to Keith Nowak it has very much to do with hdmi..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713677
I have sifted through that convoluted thread.. but see no indication that anything else is causing the cap..
So then? What IS causing it.
topdnbass said:
For the most part HDMI out, is a "feature for friends".
I don't think that many of us are ACTUALLY using this often.
I mean it's nice to have and i'm sure it can come into handy one day, but not at this expense!
According to Keith Nowak it has very much to do with hdmi..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713677
I have sifted through that convoluted thread.. but see no indication that anything else is causing the cap..
So then? What IS causing it.
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Click to collapse
are you implying i have no friends?
Indeed.
Screw implying.
You straight up got no friends bro!
Sorry, better luck next time.
Sent from my Evo 4G
I don't really understand why I'd use hdmi. This thing isn't pushing out .mkv files is it?
And you better believe I'm not spending extra money on a fancy mini hdmi cord. F that.
Take out the hdmi, give me a freaking Ethernet port instead Haha. Id prolly use that at least once, which will be more than I ever use hdmi.
(Actually come to think of it 4g to wired Ethernet tether for devices that don't support usb tether would be rather slick.)
Now that HTC fixed the grounding issue on the phone with the OTA update, my attention is now completely on the FPS issue. This is really frustrating. I have 5 days left to return my phone and I am really trying to figure out what to do. I don't want to go to Verizon because it's more expensive and I'm still in contract until Oct if I return the Evo. $50 ETF isn't a huge deal though. I've never been an apple fan and have never personally owned an iPhone but when you put the Evo next to Apple's latest, the screen choppiness really shows. It makes me mad. It makes me feel like the Evo is still behind the iPhone (when on paper is was not at all).
Look, I'm not sitting here saying that 30FPS is making my phone crappy and less enjoyable. The thought of getting duped by HTC is what bothers me. HTC sold us something on paper, and delivered something else. Isn't that called bait and switch?
Another problem is that none of the Sprint sales people, HTC customer service reps, or Best Buy/RS employees know enough about FPS to realize what it has done to our "wicked fast" phone. They look at us like we're crazy. I was describing the grounding issue to my local RS sales guy and he was giving me a look like I was being a baby about it.
Even though the 30 fps cap is still there the new update has gotten rid of all the screen lag I've had in sense and the browser.
donatom3 said:
Even though the 30 fps cap is still there the new update has gotten rid of all the screen lag I've had in sense and the browser.
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The motion blur you see when you swipe screens or scroll in the browser is a result of 30FPS. I still have it after the update. Use a nexus one or droid and you'll see the difference. It's very noticeable side-by-side. Sure, I don't see it when I'm using my phone. My brain gets used to it. The problem is that phones that have been out for 12 months have better screen motion than we do with our "wicked fast" phone.
meh at least we don't have to deal with this:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=954054
Wow! Seems pretty widespread... That really sucks. On top of that, they have to deal with the manipulations as Apple tries to dodge the complaints.
Great another post of so me one whining go return the phone, please return your phone and get a box of tampons
BrianDigital said:
Great another post of so me one whining go return the phone, please return your phone and get a box of tampons
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I'll make sure to get you an English 101 book while I'm out shopping.
coolguy949 said:
I'll make sure to get you an English 101 book while I'm out shopping.
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Hardy har, atleast I used one comma hey look htc just released a patch to fix the cap. Soley based off your whiney post
This is a public forum. People complain on it. Get used to it.
ahh fanboys make me smile
directly from an htc engineer, not some exec who doesnt really know what hes talking about.
there are two interface adapters, one for the lcd and the other for the hdmi port. the lcd uses mddi 1.1 while the rgb is used for hdmi. the mddi 1.1 operates at 30fps and no software update will fix it. changing the refresh rate is all that can be done, and this causes tearing which weve seen. sorry guys, but unless the hardware changes (it wont) were stuck at 30fps. keep in mind, however, that most movies and tv shows are shot at 24fps
hilarious considering there are two threads that bypass the fps cap on both the epson and novatec panels.
Im so sick of hearing "most movies are shot at ... fps". Most movies also have a constant frame rate that doesnt stutter or surge. Not to mention the input lag.
There are times when I am scrolling that I can literally count the frames, that is just unacceptable.
cnstarz said:
hilarious considering there are two threads that bypass the fps cap on both the epson and novatec panels.
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its been done by changing the refresh rate; like the post says its a dirty hack and theyre not sure what is causing the cap. this is whats causing the cap.
kellybrf said:
its been done by changing the refresh rate; like the post says its a dirty hack and theyre not sure what is causing the cap. this is whats causing the cap.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but this has been posted many many times... in the appropriate threads. Hardly any new information. Also, sometimes even HTC engineers don't know what the heck they are talking about.
zeuzinn said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but this has been posted many many times... in the appropriate threads. Hardly any new information. Also, sometimes even HTC engineers don't know what the heck they are talking about.
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Ok, but is the OP right? I don't feel like wading through the other multiple threads. Is the current kernel fix a true fix, or is it a hack that doesn't really get us past the 30fps barrier?
I have a novatec panel and have no tearing. I read that epsons do have tearing tho.
zeuzinn said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but this has been posted many many times... in the appropriate threads. Hardly any new information. Also, sometimes even HTC engineers don't know what the heck they are talking about.
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I have to agree here. I work for a software company in tech support and sometimes I'm clueless about a feature of the software that I have been using for over 5 years. Funny thing is not all the programmers and developers know how to even navigate through the front-end of the software. So just because they are an "engineer" at HTC, don't mean crap to me.
the panels have nothing to do with it, theyre capable of a higher fps its the mddi adapter that is holding it back
and let me rephrase the htc engineer thing...its from an evo engineer who knows all about the phone
This is a dead horse being mercilessly beaten. Some of the kernels hit 50 fps, and really that's all that's needed. It feels absolutely smooth. If it's possible to 'correctly' remove the cap, then I have every confidence in the dev community to break it.
But, creating these threads are not productive, and offer nothing that hasn't been said before. If all we're left with is a dirty hack, I'd be happy.
eagle63 said:
Ok, but is the OP right? I don't feel like wading through the other multiple threads. Is the current kernel fix a true fix, or is it a hack that doesn't really get us past the 30fps barrier?
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Yes the fps is capped at 30 and yes the hack does work for novatec panels. Epson get tearing with the fps hack.
shep211 said:
Epson get tearing with the fps hack.
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Not for long. *evil grin*
eagle63 said:
Ok, but is the OP right? I don't feel like wading through the other multiple threads. Is the current kernel fix a true fix, or is it a hack that doesn't really get us past the 30fps barrier?
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The hack does get us past the 30fps. Before the source was released they got close to 56fps on both Novatek and Epson LCD panels. Now with a new source the most they have been able to get is 40-50fps, but now with working camera and 4G. It's only a matter of time though. And if you know HTC, they are known for saying it's a hardware limitation when it's in fact, software.
The phone has only been on sale for little over a month and look at all the amazing work that has been done. This amazing community's work rivals the speed of light, so I wouldn't worry about it.
I may be misunderstanding what a midi adapter is...but...what I am thinking of has nothing to do with video?
halorin said:
This is a dead horse being mercilessly beaten. Some of the kernels hit 50 fps, and really that's all that's needed. It feels absolutely smooth. If it's possible to 'correctly' remove the cap, then I have every confidence in the dev community to break it.
But, creating these threads are not productive, and offer nothing that hasn't been said before. If all we're left with is a dirty hack, I'd be happy.
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no, this is new information. there is no mention on this forum of mddi or rgb interfaces (i checked...edit, except that i checked the wrong thing ) obviously theyve been able to do some things, but its beating a dead horse to try and remove the cap the correct way because its a hardware limitation. anyway, i put the information out there for the developers who know about these things, not for people to debate on if its right or not. tear down your evo if you want and youll find the parts, do the research and find it to be the case
kellybrf said:
no, this is new information. there is no mention on this forum of midi or rgb interfaces (i checked.)
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It's not. Do more searching and you will find it. Heck, I even got that same information as a reply from HTC customer service more than 20 days ago!
kellybrf said:
no, this is new information. there is no mention on this forum of midi or rgb interfaces (i checked.) obviously theyve been able to do some things, but its beating a dead horse to try and remove the cap the correct way because its a hardware limitation. anyway, i put the information out there for the developers who know about these things, not for people to debate on if its right or not. tear down your evo if you want and youll find the parts, do the research and find it to be the case
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That has been 'known' now for about two weeks, A quick search would have revealed that this 'engineer' hasn't revealed anything that HTC hasn't claimed before
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6896671&postcount=982
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6897077&postcount=989
If it was a hardware cap it would be IMPOSSIBLE to have a software "dirty hack" bypass it.... What you are saying is IMPOSSIBLE! We have proven that it is not a hardware cap. It would be helpful since you are a EVO engineer at HTC. To hook us up with the people responsible for the coding of this fps limit. I am not flaming.
sablesurfer said:
I may be misunderstanding what a midi adapter is...but...what I am thinking of has nothing to do with video?
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wow, been a long day. mddi, which explains why midi turned up no results
kellybrf said:
keep in mind, however, that most movies and tv shows are shot at 24fps
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The look of 24p is only considered superior because it's more film-like - which is purely a matter of conditioning on our part. We've become adjusted to an image with limited data and we somehow equate this with quality, as it's nearly analogous to the film experience which was considered greatly superior to video until recent years. (Even when the bulk of televisions default to 3:2 pulldown to display it. Ugh.)
That being said, I'd never use that excuse for a refresh rate on a monitor. I'm sorry, that argument simply doesn't carry any weight with me.
I'm more than happy with my phone and I don't play any games on it, so I'm not too upset if this news does end up being the final word - but the comparison to film and television simply isn't applicable.
Anyway, hasn't anyone ever watched sports in 720p at 60 fields per second and marveled at how smooth the action is?
Don't think this has been posted here yet so I thought I would share.
Droid-Life.com has the article, and here's the download link.
edit:
lol: "If you can't see the screen while wearing sunglasses, take them off."
Also, there seems to be a help app you can download a http://www.motorola.com/xoomhelp but it doesn't appear to be available yet.
So, no USB charging, it requires it's own unique power cable.
Also, it mentions the HDMI out, and says you can watch videos, display your pictures, and show videos you've recorded all via HDMI. It does not say that it outputs the screen to HDMI like the Adam. This is something I want, and so far it doesn't look too good..
Sirchuk said:
So, no USB charging, it requires it's own unique power cable.
Also, it mentions the HDMI out, and says you can watch videos, display your pictures, and show videos you've recorded all via HDMI. It does not say that it outputs the screen to HDMI like the Adam. This is something I want, and so far it doesn't look too good..
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Hmm... full HDMI out is a pretty critical feature for me.
Xevilious said:
Hmm... full HDMI out is a pretty critical feature for me.
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It seems like it's going to be exactly the same as it is on the Droid X, there are apps to allow clone mode output through HDMI on the X. Hopefully they will get a app for the Xoom not to far after it's release.
Low023 said:
It seems like it's going to be exactly the same as it is on the Droid X, there are apps to allow clone mode output through HDMI on the X. Hopefully they will get a app for the Xoom not to far after it's release.
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Huh, wonder why there isn't an app like that for the EVO. The EVO has the same issue, only Gallery and YouTube outputs via HDMI, and nobody has been able to make it do otherwise.
The Notion Ink Adam outputs the entire screen via HDMI, that's what I want for the Xoom.
I would bet this has all to do with HDCP.
It will be interesting to see how Netflix / Hulu Plus will be handled with this feature once they're available.
And also how the 'Speaker HD Dock' interfaces with this issue.
No usb charging isn't good..but since it has 10 hours of battery life i think i can deal with it.
Arun01 said:
No usb charging isn't good..but since it has 10 hours of battery life i think i can deal with it.
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In nearly all cases I have seen with smartphones, what they claim is always more than what you will get even in standby. It is like they test things in safe mode with nothing running. I hope at least 10 hours but I would not be surprised if it is much less. Although I want one bad, I think I am going to wait for the early adopters to report real world numbers first.
I love it when people report they get "Days" on new roms... I cant get "days" if i set ANY of my bloody phones on a table and left it to do NOTHING for the whole time lol.
Anyone able to upload the manual? THe link no longer works
Morkai Almandragon said:
I love it when people report they get "Days" on new roms... I cant get "days" if i set ANY of my bloody phones on a table and left it to do NOTHING for the whole time lol.
Anyone able to upload the manual? THe link no longer works
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Here you go.
BBruin66 said:
I would bet this has all to do with HDCP.
It will be interesting to see how Netflix / Hulu Plus will be handled with this feature once they're available.
And also how the 'Speaker HD Dock' interfaces with this issue.
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I'm half tempted to wait on buying a Xoom until after the Netflix information is available. I mean, it's not a huge deal... I have a PS3, which I use for all my Netflix, but in the off-chance that I buy a second TV, I would expect my Xoom to be my primary Netflix delivery device.
Morkai Almandragon said:
I love it when people report they get "Days" on new roms... I cant get "days" if i set ANY of my bloody phones on a table and left it to do NOTHING for the whole time lol.
Anyone able to upload the manual? THe link no longer works
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Here is the original manual:
http://safemanuals.com/user-guide-instructions-owner-manual/MOTOROLA/XOOM-_E
Enjoy