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Ok, I will try to keep this short...I just thought this was kinda weird.....
I called to return my phone today, and when they asked if I had any other issues with it (besides the back cover not lining up with the phone) I said yes..and I described how the screen does not let you have two fingers on the same axis and gave them this example: when I was playing 'Prince of Persia' and it had the direction buttons on the lower left of the screen and across on the lower right of the screen were the other 'action buttons' and when I press both they either both do not work or only one will work. Now the rep said 'Oh, well that is because the nexus one does not have multi touch...it has pinch to zoom' ...in my mind I was like "wth?" haha, but is this just their excuse for the Synaptic touch sensor? It seems more as though they are trying to justify it instead of owning up to it...well my response was refering to the Htc incredible and the Supersonic which have new touch sensors that work better and I said I had wished the nexus one had the same...the rep said she was not aware of an update for the problem, but it is not out of the question...(I wondered if she realized I was talking about hardware not software, although hardware can be updated as well just not as easily...)...
Umm I'm not sure how much that tech actually knows, because I was playing a game on my N1....idr the name of it but it was a first-person shooter, and I was able to use the on-screen movement controls AND look around by dragging my finger across the screen at the same time.
I think that's because they are on two different horizontal axes.
N1 can detect TWO touch points at the same time, and thats according to the touch sensor manufacturer. I think the game, Prince of Persia, is not efficient enough for detecting two points at the same time. We should wait till 19th May and see what Google brings for gaming scene on android...
yeah the update is right around the corner, so i would be curious to see if it fixes that issue.
but i would not expect some customer service rep to know a damn thing about the Y-axis issue or what model the touch screen is synaptics clearpad 2000. you're giving them way too much credit. they just know it has pinch to zoom, and that's the end of it.
anyway that game should work OK using 2 touch points, but i havent tried it to know for sure. i have seen that there are other games that use 2 points and they work fine. i guess the game crosses the Y-axis is when it would not work, but i didnt know any type of those games exist yet. i admit it sucks that this limitation is present.
The error occurs if the two fingers are on the same axis ...i.e. horizontal / vertical from each other ...but if it is diagonal it should work...even slightly diagonal should work unless the two points get close to each others axis....this is not a software issue and I surely would love to see it fixed with a software update but I doubt this will be so...only time will tell.....now I would not blame it on Prince of Persia...check other games with the same control layout and see how it works...or even try something without the same layout and just use one control and touch your finger on the same axis of the control and you will see the error occur....
It sucks, a BRAND NEW 2010 phone, over $500....and yet cannot even use proper multitouch...even my old iphone 2g works better in the multitouch aspect....(sad and disappointing) ...it has all these nice specs but the multi touch aspect kills it for me...
People expecting the N1 to not have any quirks make me laugh
ap3604 said:
People expecting the N1 to not have any quirks make me laugh
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so you are fine that a piece of hardware made 3 years ago out performs this new one? That is something that you normally expect eh?....hmm " " ....
erebusting said:
so you are fine that a piece of hardware made 3 years ago out performs this new one? That is something that you normally expect eh?....hmm " " ....
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Well actually I am.. but that's because I don't play poorly made games on my phone, at least not ones that require multi touch, and even then.. it doesn't really mess up though :/
If there are games that are actually made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.. then maybe I will then know your pain. Other than that, apps and etc. are pretty fine.
erebusting said:
so you are fine that a piece of hardware made 3 years ago out performs this new one? That is something that you normally expect eh?....hmm " " ....
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yes i am totally fine with it. maybe i live in reality but this minor design issue is NOTHING to worry about. i think some people are not well adjusted to the world....
RogerPodacter said:
yes i am totally fine with it. maybe i live in reality but this minor design issue is NOTHING to worry about. i think some people are not well adjusted to the world....
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your eggagerated response is funny, you live in 'reality' where you would pay top dollar for something supposedly top notch, but I think in REAL reality you would want the best for your money....basically would you pay $2.00 for a Ferrari/MaxTouch sensor or $2.00 for a pinto/Synaptic touch sensor ...... why not get the most for your money? are you just trying to make yourself feel better about the phone your are now basically stuck with?
Eclair~ said:
Well actually I am.. but that's because I don't play poorly made games on my phone, at least not ones that require multi touch, and even then.. it doesn't really mess up though :/
If there are games that are actually made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.. then maybe I will then know your pain. Other than that, apps and etc. are pretty fine.
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wth are you talking about...'made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.'...? this is a hardware issue, how does it matter how good or bad the game is made, the hardware supersedes the software in this case....
I guess the real thing is, as long as you are all happy with your non multi touch phone/ the 'pinch to zoom' phone...
haha
yes i am totally fine with it. maybe i live in reality but this minor design issue is NOTHING to worry about. i think some people are not well adjusted to the world....
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your eggagerated response is funny, you live in 'reality' where you would pay top dollar for something supposedly top notch, but I think in REAL reality you would want the best for your money....basically would you pay $2.00 for a Ferrari/MaxTouch sensor or $2.00 for a pinto/Synaptic touch sensor ...... why not get the most for your money? are you just trying to make yourself feel better about the phone your are now basically stuck with?
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I don't know why you think the nexus price is any different than any other smartphone. its actually cheaper than most smartphones.
my response is not exaggerated at all. I'm happy with my phone 100%.
RogerPodacter said:
I don't know why you think the nexus price is any different than any other smartphone. its actually cheaper than most smartphones.
my response is not exaggerated at all. I'm happy with my phone 100%.
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well that is not what the discussion was about now any ways right(the price)...the price is another issue, but for being the same price as about any other smartphone while some of those smart phones can do proper multitouch and with the same or better specs, why would you want to limit yourself if you could choose the best...
disregard the exaggerated comment because it just brings up another discussion for another day
just answer this...
wouldnt you want the best you can get for the hard earned money you spend?
I understand this phone is great...I believe it should have been at least a little bit better than what it came out to be...
i can't think of two (one isn't really worth the think) reasons for a multi-touch sensor. pinch/zoom seems to work well for maps and pictures. not being a gamer means a good deal of drama is lost on me i suppose.
as far as the price of the n1, and being 'stuck' with the phone... that's laughable. anyone can sell their n1 TONIGHT on ebay or craigslist for 100% of what they paid for it from google, and then some in certain cases. smart phones co$t MONEY. beit an iphone, n1, n97, or whatever is going to be badass next summer. i _LIKE_ the idea of buying off contract, using a NO CONTRACT carrier, and selling/leaving when i want.
should a N1 come out for att/whoever without contract, with a sweet keyboard like the G1, i'd switch overnight. water proof ? i'm there. 12 mp camera with HD and a gig of rom space ? sweet.
this is more a rant thread than a progress in motion thread. if you feel you've been wronged or led by false advertising, sell your phone. get one that does everything you have to have. i don't recall anyone saying "holy **** it haz multi-touch i gotta haz it !!!!!" when the n1 was released.
that was much longer than i expected. shoulda just said "lol" and left it.
erebusting said:
wth are you talking about...'made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.'...? this is a hardware issue, how does it matter how good or bad the game is made, the hardware supersedes the software in this case....
I guess the real thing is, as long as you are all happy with your non multi touch phone/ the 'pinch to zoom' phone...
haha
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When I said made with quality, I was saying how much quality are put into Android's games. I was referring nothing to hardware issues.
Most Android games (to me) are horrible little 2D games that get boring in a few minutes. I don't even really "want" to play them, so therefore I don't need a complicated multi touch system until 'quality' games are made. Games that are worth playing for more than a few seconds, sadly to say, iPhone type games. Google is trying, though.
The only application that "plays" the games I want to play is GameBoid, where the multi-touch works perfectly. I can hold down a directional input, along with B, or A, and reform actions that result in those two presses perfectly. Such as running.
You seem to love to whine though, you did pay a lot for this phone though, I guess I would be pissed if this really mattered to me as well. Right now I'm like "whatever, who cares". It does what I want..
I don't know why you think the nexus price is any different than any other smartphone. its actually cheaper than most smartphones.
my response is no
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well that is not what the discussion was about now any ways right(the price)...the price is another issue, but for being the same price as about any other smartphone while some of those smart phones can do proper multitouch and with the same or better specs, why would you want to limit yourself if you could choose the best...
disregard the exaggerated comment because it just brings up another discussion for another day
just answer this...
wouldnt you want the best you can get for the hard earned money you spend?
I understand this phone is great...I believe it should have been at least a little bit better than what it came out to be...
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Click to collapse
I've owned so many phones in my life, and every single one of them had some type of issue, defect, missing feature, or whatever. if the only complaint about the nexus is this one minor issue, than I say its a winner.
great so the original iPhone could do it, but it couldn't do pics with a flash, or copy/paste, or mms. so what scenario is better/worse? I say the nexus is the better situation by leaps and bounds.
if this issue is important to you then you should switch phones. for me its not that important. my Nokia n97 had a faulty camera lens issue that scratched itself when opening. every phone has its quirks. if the nexus ones quirk is this Y axis issue, then I proclaim we all are winners with such a minor issue.
erebusting said:
so you are fine that a piece of hardware made 3 years ago out performs this new one? That is something that you normally expect eh?....hmm " " ....
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and it took the iphone how long until they got copy and Paste? that wait winMo had since the ipaq days
or wait MMS?
hm whatever? does it do bluetooth file transfers yet? without needing alternative programs?
even myk750 from sony does bluetooth lol
habs101 said:
and it took the iphone how long until they got copy and Paste? that wait winMo had since the ipaq days
or wait MMS?
hm whatever? does it do bluetooth file transfers yet? without needing alternative programs?
even myk750 from sony does bluetooth lol
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lol that is not the point, I was just saying that when I heard it was able to do multi touch I thought it was going to be like the iPhone's multitouch ...since that tech is now older tech I thought it was implied that it would have equal or better multi touch especially since everything else is definately better...The iPhone was a competitor for a while there and you would think they would have beefed up the multitouch (or at least made it on par) since they beefed up every other aspect....
haha damn, this IS becomming a 'rant' thread...sorry on my behalf for that didn't mean for it to come to that ...I am irritating myself right now with this thread... I just wanted to bring up what the rep had said it was kind of odd to hear that....but the issue she was referring to is something that bugs me..
Now in reference to the gba emulator comment, I haven't tried it but the SNES emu works fine (it has the directional pad diagonally across from the buttons, so it does not suffer from the so called 'y axis' error)
BTW I have some Nexus Cases, anyone interested ?
erebusting said:
wth are you talking about...'made with quality for Android, that multi-touch is really required on.'...? this is a hardware issue, how does it matter how good or bad the game is made, the hardware supersedes the software in this case....
I guess the real thing is, as long as you are all happy with your non multi touch phone/ the 'pinch to zoom' phone...
haha
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Well, go get the best you can get for your money, i guess. Some people are satisfied with their nexus ones (nexii?)
erebusting said:
lol that is not the point, I was just saying that when I heard it was able to do multi touch I thought it was going to be like the iPhone's multitouch ...since that tech is now older tech I thought it was implied that it would have equal or better multi touch especially since everything else is definately better...The iPhone was a competitor for a while there and you would think they would have beefed up the multitouch (or at least made it on par) since they beefed up every other aspect....
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The iphone and the nexus are not competitors, strictly speaking. The devices are competing in different classes. If you feel that they are, you could probably do some research, which would give you a good idea of how they compare.
Less ranting please.
ok, i'm tired of seeing all of these threads about how much the nexus sucks or there's blah blah blah issue with it. listen, if you own this phone, you own the top piece of tech on the globe.
the g1 forum was never like this (and apparently they're ****ed cause they will never see a 2.x officially, so they actually have a reason to ***** but they don't), so what is the issue? there are threads saying the droid incredible is the nexus killer.. yea right. if i decided to travel the world, my nexus one will support that. if i decided to make a call in a freakin lambo at 120 miles per hour with the top down, my nexus one will support that. if i wanted to have the first cell phone in the world that actually has flash, my nexus one will support that. the droid incredible wasn't even rooted yet, and the situation is looking pretty grim. the iphone, wow, i shouldn't even waste my time talking about that piece of garbage. anyone that uses that crap, i look at them in disgrace and shame. sorry, i don't want something so basic that my grandmom can even use it.
so my point is, if you want a real phone, then get a nexus one. if you already own one and like it, my respect goes to you. if not, please don't waste space on this forum and find a phone that better suit your needs.
I have a couple of theories as to why there's a lot more... scrutiny here than in other forums. Most G1 users were able to buy their phones under contract, and as such the proverbial stakes may be lower because they didn't pay as much as N1 owners who probably paid full price (like myself).
The bigger theory, though, is that Google trumped this phone up to be the first 'super phone'. There's nothing super about not being able to handle more than 2 touch inputs, making gaming a hard task. There's nothing super about the GPU, or the jittery scrolling in some websites and on the home screen.
When you say a phone has a 1ghz processor in it, and you claim it to be a superphone, you don't expect to run into performance issues. I know I sure didn't. I've since grounded myself to the realities of hype and marketing, but it still gets under my skin that I'm still playing the same 'upgrade every other day to try to get the phone to actually be what I bought it for' game I've done with past Windows Mobile devices.
All in all I like my N1 a lot. I think it's one of the best phones out right now, and will be for some time to come, but they could have saved themselves a lot of grief by coming up with a better touch screen sensor. You just don't take shortcuts with a 'superphone'.
Purchasing an amazing smartphone like the N1 and b*itching about an annoyance is like getting married and getting pissed when your wife leaves crumbs on the counter or doesn't tuck in the sheets: grow up, get over it, and start appreciating it for all the great things that it does for you.
And please... dont use the excuse "but but... I paid $500 for my phone so I expect it to be be perfect and not have anything wrong with it". This is a idiotic since nothing is perfect (even the EVO 4g will have something wrong with it). Try telling this stupid argument to your future wife and see what happens "Honey... I spent $500 on you so I want you to be perfect and not have any quirks".
The N1 is amazing for me. So much that I can see myself using it beyond 2 years. It fulfills every single one of my needs. After years of searching I have finally found my "perfect" phone. Its that good.
I appreciate the sentiment, ap. For the most part I agree, but every person has different needs. One of the big things I use my phone for is gaming when I ride the metro to work. I also work on my book with my phone when I commute to work.
Imagine my surprise when I buy SuperGNES and realize I can't use the gamepad as advertised because the betweens are 15mm within the same axis so I couldn't do a running jump in Super Mario World. Yet my girlfriend can do this fine on her 2 year old iPhone 3G. And I have the superphone.
Or picture the look on my face when try to type really fast on the Android keyboard as I work on my book but letters don't register that did on the iPhone I used to have. I could hold down one key, and press another and not have the first one register on the N1, my superphone. This isn't a HTC Touch Cruise I'm using.
If I go to www.textsfromlastnight.com, the scrolling is choppy and not aesthetically pleasing. I hate to use the iPhone again, but the scrolling on that is fine. Websites seemingly at random do not perform well on the N1, my superphone.
Don't get me wrong, though. I do like my phone. But some of its shortcomings are not ones I'd expect, given the hardware specifications. I also did not expect Google to skimp on the touchscreen sensor on its flagship device.
If your phone does everything you want it to do, then that's great, and I'm happy for you. Not everyone can say that, though, and that's criticism I feel Google exposed itself to by calling the N1 a superphone, a class that's supposed to be above everything that came before it.
halorin said:
I appreciate the sentiment, ap. For the most part I agree, but every person has different needs. One of the big things I use my phone for is gaming when I ride the metro to work. I also work on my book with my phone when I commute to work.
Imagine my surprise when I buy SuperGNES and realize I can't use the gamepad as advertised because the betweens are 15mm within the same axis so I couldn't do a running jump in Super Mario World. Yet my girlfriend can do this fine on her 2 year old iPhone 3G. And I have the superphone.
Or picture the look on my face when try to type really fast on the Android keyboard as I work on my book but letters don't register that did on the iPhone I used to have. I could hold down one key, and press another and not have the first one register on the N1, my superphone. This isn't a HTC Touch Cruise I'm using.
If I go to www.textsfromlastnight.com, the scrolling is choppy and not aesthetically pleasing. I hate to use the iPhone again, but the scrolling on that is fine. Websites seemingly at random do not perform well on the N1, my superphone.
Don't get me wrong, though. I do like my phone. But some of its shortcomings are not ones I'd expect, given the hardware specifications. I also did not expect Google to skimp on the touchscreen sensor on its flagship device.
If your phone does everything you want it to do, then that's great, and I'm happy for you. Not everyone can say that, though, and that's criticism I feel Google exposed itself to by calling the N1 a superphone, a class that's supposed to be above everything that came before it.
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Interesting points made about some of the short comings of the N1. Coming from a BlackBerry Pearl 8120 to this phone is quite a step up. It is hard for me to find negatives with the phone, besides being spoiled by the BB battery life of 2-3 days with moderate use compared to the N1 ~24hrs.
I am not sure about your experience while typing. I installed Swype and find it easier and faster to type e-mails and forum posts, and SMS compared to a physical keyboard and the default keyboard on the N1.
Coming from most phones the N1 will be a HUGE step up, and rightfully so. I'd say that the N1 is about 90% of what I thought it would be, which in its own right is pretty damn goood.
The keyboard issue I'm talking about refers to the current limitation where if you press more than one spot on the same axis within about 15 mm the input will flatten to one. There's something called multitouch visualizer on the market that shows this. It's the same hinderance that makes same axis multitouch on games not work well. Using Swype will make this a non-issue, I would imagine since it's just the one touch sliding around.
Android 2.2 is rumored to fix some of this, but it's a head scratcher that Google would use such a low-end touch screen on their breakout device.
halorin said:
Coming from most phones the N1 will be a HUGE step up, and rightfully so. I'd say that the N1 is about 90% of what I thought it would be, which in its own right is pretty damn goood.
The keyboard issue I'm talking about refers to the current limitation where if you press more than one spot on the same axis within about 15 mm the input will flatten to one. There's something called multitouch visualizer on the market that shows this. It's the same hinderance that makes same axis multitouch on games not work well. Using Swype will make this a non-issue, I would imagine since it's just the one touch sliding around.
Android 2.2 is rumored to fix some of this, but it's a head scratcher that Google would use such a low-end touch screen on their breakout device.
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The N1 is new to me in a lot of aspects. This is my first touch screen phone, first Android phone, first phone that supports 3G/HSPDA, first with GPS support.
Hmm, I'll have to find that app regarding the sensor in the marketplace; read about it before in other threads.
2.2 should be coming out this month or next month? I'm assuming N1 would be on top of the list to get the update and I think the new myTouch 3G 3rd gen is getting it too?
It's a shame that the Nexus One got stuck with the clearpad touchscreen, but it's a relatively low volume phone and HTC probably either had enough stock or an existing contract with a supplier that lined up well with their projected sales numbers. I'm sure the designers would have loved to have used a better part, but typically the bean counters are the ones that get to make those decisions.
To my understanding, 2.2 should be out sometime next month. Keep in mind that I am no way trying to bash the Nexus One. I'm just objective about it. All in all it's an amazing phone. It's arguably pound for pound the best phone out, and it's certainly the best one I've ever owned.
It's just not a 'superphone'. Not to me, for the reasons I stated above; reasons I feel are valid.
halorin said:
To my understanding, 2.2 should be out sometime next month. Keep in mind that I am no way trying to bash the Nexus One. I'm just objective about it. All in all it's an amazing phone. It's arguably pound for pound the best phone out, and it's certainly the best one I've ever owned.
It's just not a 'superphone'. Not to me, for the reasons I stated above; reasons I feel are valid.
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Hah, I know you're not bashing the phone Just picking out somethings that stuck out that is either a flaw or we prefer something else.
Be interesting to see what is included in 2.2 that might be derived from CM5.0.6
Well, there are a few things already in ROMs that are supposed to be in 2.2, namely the trackball color change business. I want to say some of the OpenGL upgrades are already floating around, but I may be wrong on that. I hope I am. There's always talk of JIT compiling, a concept I don't know a lot about other than it's a different way for the processor to handle stuff that's supposed to be faster. I hope/think that's in 2.2.
The biggest concern for me is (shocker) the supposed multitouch changes.
While i do love the phone and it is a sexy piece of hardware... i am still bitter about the quality of the touch screen...
the fact that i cannot really play games because the multi-touch is kind messed up is a real downer for me... i really hope this issue gets somewhat fixed in the froyo update but i do not have my hopes up... emulators and stuff was something i was really looking forward to on my phone but the touch screen sort of put the nix on that....
t0mmy said:
ok, i'm tired of seeing all of these threads about how much the nexus sucks or there's blah blah blah issue with it. listen, if you own this phone, you own the top piece of tech on the globe.
the g1 forum was never like this (and apparently they're ****ed cause they will never see a 2.x officially, so they actually have a reason to ***** but they don't), so what is the issue? there are threads saying the droid incredible is the nexus killer.. yea right. if i decided to travel the world, my nexus one will support that. if i decided to make a call in a freakin lambo at 120 miles per hour with the top down, my nexus one will support that. if i wanted to have the first cell phone in the world that actually has flash, my nexus one will support that. the droid incredible wasn't even rooted yet, and the situation is looking pretty grim. the iphone, wow, i shouldn't even waste my time talking about that piece of garbage. anyone that uses that crap, i look at them in disgrace and shame. sorry, i don't want something so basic that my grandmom can even use it.
so my point is, if you want a real phone, then get a nexus one. if you already own one and like it, my respect goes to you. if not, please don't waste space on this forum and find a phone that better suit your needs.
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You are my hero.
Agree completely. People need to slap themselves real hard and remind themselves what kind of piece of technology they own. STOP *****ing. Christ, N1 forum is becoming a collection of spoiled crybabies.
Wake up!
JHaste said:
While i do love the phone and it is a sexy piece of hardware... i am still bitter about the quality of the touch screen...
the fact that i cannot really play games because the multi-touch is kind messed up is a real downer for me... i really hope this issue gets somewhat fixed in the froyo update but i do not have my hopes up... emulators and stuff was something i was really looking forward to on my phone but the touch screen sort of put the nix on that....
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You can play SuperGNES in landscape with the d-pad and the buttons at diagonally opposite corners and play pretty much without issues. I'm able to do running jumps in Super Mario World. I don't know why SuperGNES and Snesoid both do not have LR button capabilities, but I'm no designer. I haven't tried other emulators.
DarkDvr said:
You are my hero.
Agree completely. People need to slap themselves real hard and remind themselves what kind of piece of technology they own. STOP *****ing. Christ, N1 forum is becoming a collection of spoiled crybabies.
Wake up!
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I disagree. I don't think I need to slap myself because I expect a 'superphone' to be able to handle more than two touch inputs reliably.
halorin said:
I disagree. I don't think I need to slap myself because I expect a 'superphone' to be able to handle more than two touch inputs reliably.
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+1 agree with this
halorin said:
I disagree. I don't think I need to slap myself because I expect a 'superphone' to be able to handle more than two touch inputs reliably.
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Why is everyone so fixed on the multi-touch? Seriously. Let's face the facts for a second. Besides playing console-ported games with 2 controls on left and right of the screen, there is no other place where you need that.
Fact: pinch-to-zoom works flawlessly (as in "without any issues") everywhere you need it - maps, browser, gallery. If it doesn't for you - talk to your doctor about fixing your hand coordination. Where else do you need multitouch in the real world? Nowhere.
Besides, we need to stop being hipocritical. We found ONE problem with Nexus that still remains and we freak out. I cannot even start listing the difficiences of other "SUPERPHONES" like iPhone. They can't do **** in comparison. Yet I don't see so much hate and dissapointment over their devices as we have here. Think about it. Apple fanboys are actually less hipocritical about their devices, albeit somewhat ignorant. Yet they can appreciate their devices and value them for things they can do, and we, informed and educated, hate our devices (far more advanced) for tiny flaws. So who's better off here?
The reason for my rant is for us to face the facts and be just. No device is perfect, humans created it, and we are not perfect. Everything has flaws. You cannot focus on one _insignificant_ flaw and forgo all the good stuff. People would never marry if that were the case =) Look at the whole picture, value something (or someone) for it's good qualities, don't hate it for the flaws.
halorin said:
You can play SuperGNES in landscape with the d-pad and the buttons at diagonally opposite corners and play pretty much without issues. I'm able to do running jumps in Super Mario World. I don't know why SuperGNES and Snesoid both do not have LR button capabilities, but I'm no designer. I haven't tried other emulators.
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so you CAN play NES emulators with no problem. i thought i read that you cant do this because of the stupid touch screen limitation. damn false info.
halorin said:
I disagree. I don't think I need to slap myself because I expect a 'superphone' to be able to handle more than two touch inputs reliably.
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I disagree. You need to slap yourself.
If you don't think the phone is a good value, sell it on Ebay. You'll get the bulk of your money back and you can go whine about your expectations about your new phone elsewhere. *****ing about what it isn't/doesn't have is pointless.
DarkDvr said:
Why is everyone so fixed on the multi-touch? Seriously. Let's face the facts for a second. Besides playing console-ported games with 2 controls on left and right of the screen, there is no other place where you need that.
Fact: pinch-to-zoom works flawlessly (as in "without any issues") everywhere you need it - maps, browser, gallery. If it doesn't for you - talk to your doctor about fixing your hand coordination. Where else do you need multitouch in the real world? Nowhere.
Besides, we need to stop being hipocritical. We found ONE problem with Nexus that still remains and we freak out. I cannot even start listing the difficiences of other "SUPERPHONES" like iPhone. They can't do **** in comparison.
The reason for my rant is for us to face the facts and be just. No device is perfect, humans created it, and we are not perfect. Everything has flaws. You cannot focus on one _insignificant_ flaw and forgo all the good stuff. People would never marry if that were the case =) Look at the whole picture, value something (or someone) for it's good qualities, don't hate it for the flaws.
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I think you are undervaluing the intentions people have for their phones simply because they aren't yours. While I may not be as fanatical as some others have been, I'm going to take notice of the idea that my two year old iPhone 3G does something better than my new Nexus One because someone between HTC and Google decided that the touchpad sensor they chose was enough.
If the flaws of the phone were enough of a problem for me, I'd sell it on Craigslist and get something else. Just because they aren't that glaring for me doesn't mean I'm going to be ignorant of them, though.
Also, it's been well documented that the touch sensor on the N1 can misbehave in a variety of cases, even with just one touch. I've personally experienced this. Touches refuse to accurately register until you turn off the screen and turn it back on sometimes. Play around with the multitouch application for a while and you more than likely will see some anomalies.
I think I stand somewhere in the middle of 'This phone is perfect, why complainomg' and 'This phone is broken and flawedomg'.
It's hard to make the argument you're trying to make about no phone being perfect when phones like the Evo 4G and the Droid Incredible are basically the same phone except they didn't get cheap touch sensors. I'd wager to guess they'll be around the same price as the N1 as well, if not cheaper also.
I'll agree that some people take their complaints too far, but you almost make it sound like people should have nothing to complain about at all, which I disagree with.
I had been having ALOT of trouble with scrolling in text messages as well as websites absolutely sucking, and always jumping around when i wasnt touching the screen. I noticed in another forum that people who were having this problem (including me) have almost constant 3g data connections (the light in the tool bar is always lit). Initially I tried rebooting, and using advanced task kill to see if i could kill whatever the data hog was, but it didnt help.
I then discovered that by going to the settings in advanced task killer and setting security to low, that by killing everything (aka the tons of htc.* crap) that my 3g light no longer was lit like a christmas tree, and that scrolling actually worked. Everything on this phone seems snappier now, but maybe that is just a placebo effect. Either way im just happy I can actually read my older text messages again Give it a try if you cant scroll. Maybe someone wiser than I can figure what specific app is ****ing up the data connection. I dont think it is anything I installed, since I was already killing those with the normal security settings.
P.s. **** htc. If I wasn't stuck on my parent's plan I would jump ship on this p.o.s.
Root and remove the ****.
Jump ship to what? This phone has the best hardware specs of any US device to date...
Yeah, root and remove the sprint crap. I even removed Sense UI, and I have never had a lag problem. Even using 'overclock widget' to downscale dramatically when the phone is "turned off ".
-------------------------------------
Sent from my Evo...
Negrito said:
Jump ship to what? This phone has the best hardware specs of any US device to date...
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other than the screen size and 4g it's got the same specs as phones that came out months ago.
madsquabbles said:
other than the screen size and 4g it's got the same specs as phones that came out months ago.
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Click to collapse
HDMI, 8mp rear camera, front camera, and kickstand are the reasons I got it. Not screen size or 4g.
The only phone with similar specs (out right now) is the N900. It lacks the HDMI, has lower mp cameras (but they are likely better), has the outstanding 32gb of internal storage, and is every bit as hackable. Unfortunately, Nokia has essentially abandoned that phone otherwise I would be all over it.
bump
dever76 said:
Btw, I have 2 Evo's, they are going back before the 30 days is up.
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I frequent 3-4 boards and I'll never get why people must rub in everyones face how the "EVO sucks" and how they're going to "return it". IF I was going to return my phone I wouldn't waste anymore time in forums, MUCH less take the time to tell everyone how much the EVO sux.
dever76 said:
You should see the Samsung Galaxy S videos and benchmarks. It's got the Evo beat pretty much everywhere.
www DOT gsmarena DOT com/samsung_i9000_galaxy_s-review-478.php[/url]
Btw, I have 2 Evo's, they are going back before the 30 days is up.
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Cool story.
dever76 said:
You should see the Samsung Galaxy S videos and benchmarks. It's got the Evo beat pretty much everywhere.
www DOT gsmarena DOT com/samsung_i9000_galaxy_s-review-478.php[/url]
Btw, I have 2 Evo's, they are going back before the 30 days is up.
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Samsung isn't the manufacturer you want to go to if you are upset with HTC's build quality (Samsung's current Android phone hardware track record is extremely checkered).
spiicytuna said:
I frequent 3-4 boards and I'll never get why people must rub in everyones face how the "EVO sucks" and how they're going to "return it". IF I was going to return my phone I wouldn't waste anymore time in forums, MUCH less take the time to tell everyone how much the EVO sux.
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Internet Drama Queens
spiicytuna said:
I frequent 3-4 boards and I'll never get why people must rub in everyones face how the "EVO sucks" and how they're going to "return it". IF I was going to return my phone I wouldn't waste anymore time in forums, MUCH less take the time to tell everyone how much the EVO sux.
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Click to collapse
THIS. Sorry if this comes off as rude but seriously, it's getting tiring hearing people try to say this phone sucks and rubbing it in EVO owners' faces. It's a great phone even despite its downfalls. There are plenty of us who don't have all of the glaring problems. If you want a Galaxy S or a Droid X or a Droid 2 or a Droid Incredible then stop wasting your own time visitng the EVO forum and return your phone already. I swear, it's like people need to justify the fact that they bought something that they ultimately ended up not liking.
Point blank: If you don't like the phone and you want to return it, then DO it, instead of declaring it in every post and trying to rain on satisfied customers' parade.
As to the actual topic:
I'll try this in a second. I wasn't really having much lag or scrolling issues in the first place though. I think some EVOs are just defective.
I do have a question though: Did anyone notice that the amount of touch/scrolling lag seems to depend on the app that you're using? For example when I scroll in the app menu, it lags quite a bit before it starts scrolling. But in Handcent and Touiteur, I barely have any lag at all. The scrolling is also smoother in those apps as opposed to, say, the Engadget app which has some highly noticeable jerkiness to the text when you scroll really slow.
Is this an issue that the developers of the app control?
Edit: I did notice that things were a wee bit snappier accross the board but scrolling still seems about the same for me.
spiicytuna said:
I frequent 3-4 boards and I'll never get why people must rub in everyones face how the "EVO sucks" and how they're going to "return it". IF I was going to return my phone I wouldn't waste anymore time in forums, MUCH less take the time to tell everyone how much the EVO sux.
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Click to collapse
I'm of the belief that people come to these forums because they do have an attachment to the EVO, and while they are upset about something, they are looking for reasons to keep the phone.
They want convincing evidence that they were correct in making the decision to purchase the EVO.
dever76 said:
You should see the Samsung Galaxy S videos and benchmarks. It's got the Evo beat pretty much everywhere.
www DOT gsmarena DOT com/samsung_i9000_galaxy_s-review-478.php[/url]
Btw, I have 2 Evo's, they are going back before the 30 days is up.
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Click to collapse
Where does it have the Evo beat????
from the link you so kindly provided....
Code:
Key features
* Quad-band GSM and tri-band 3G support
* 7.2 Mbps HSDPA and 5.76 Mbps HSUPA support
* 4" 16M-color Super AMOLED capacitive touchscreen of WVGA (480 x 800 pixel) resolution
* Android OS v2.1 with TouchWiz 3.0 UI customization
* 1GHz Cortex A8 Hummingbird CPU; 512 MB of RAM
* 5 MP autofocus camera with face, smile and blink detection
* 720p HD video recording at 30fps
* Wi-Fi 802.11 b, g and n support
* GPS with A-GPS connectivity; Digital compass
* 8/16GB internal storage, microSD slot
* Accelerometer and proximity sensor
* Standard 3.5 mm audio jack
* microUSB port (charging) and stereo Bluetooth v3.0
* Stereo FM radio with RDS
* 1500 mAh Li-Ion battery
* Great audio quality
* Slim waistline at only 9.9mm thickness
* Document editor
* File manager comes preinstalled
* Secondary video-call camera
* Swype predictive text input
* Excellent choice of preinstalled applications
Main disadvantages
* No free GPS navigation solution
* No Flash support for the web browser
* No flash for the camera
* No dedicated camera key
* The all-plastic body is a real fingerprint magnet
* Feeble loudspeaker
Only thing it has is its internal storage which means nothing to me, I have 2 16GB, and 3 or 4 8GB cards. Space is erroneous in this day and age. Oh, and the Super AMOLED screen. That i have no argument for, even though its the same resolution, but .3" smaller.... And no word on a Froyo update for it yet. Awesome!
So yeah... I feel like you're kidding yourself.
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Now playing on iTunes: GZA/Genius - Hip Hop Fury (feat. RZA, Hell Razah & Royal Fam)
As for lag, I have none. However, my phone wasnt stock for very long. I have removed Rosie, and all the Sprint apps. I use LauncherPro Beta for my home replacement. I have OC Widget set to underclock when the screen is off, and have AutoKiller running at 'Extreme' (I think since we have so much ram the lesser presets dont really do much). Also with my setup Im sure i could go at least 12 hours off the charger with moderate to heavy use.
__________________
Now playing on iTunes: Masta Killa - High Price Small Reward (feat. GZA/Genius)
All you guys who say your Evo has no lag: I have a friend who also has and Evo and swears there is no touch/scroll lag on it at all... I checked it out, it's 100% there. Later that day, I played around with his MacBook Pro - same thing. The mouse is lagging 0.1-0.2 seconds behind my movement... I guess his claim of "no lag at all" was simply because he's used to it on his computer
frifox said:
All you guys who say your Evo has no lag: I have a friend who also has and Evo and swears there is no touch/scroll lag on it at all... I checked it out, it's 100% there. Later that day, I played around with his MacBook Pro - same thing. The mouse is lagging 0.1-0.2 seconds behind my movement... I guess his claim of "no lag at all" was simply because he's used to it on his computer
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His Macbook Pro lags? One, i doubt that, and two are you saying that those of us "claiming" not to have lag are just making it up? Because my Evo runs flawless. I know there are better setups than mine, even an overclocked one, but I like how my phone is and truthfully there is NO lag. Not when scrolling, nor on the keyboard (which is where i usually noticed lag on my Hero, even when it was overclocked).
__________________
Now playing on iTunes: Raekwon - Spot_rusherz
I'm running froyo v8 and there is no lag.
Negrito said:
So yeah... I feel like you're kidding yourself.
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Now playing on iTunes: GZA/Genius - Hip Hop Fury (feat. RZA, Hell Razah & Royal Fam)
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You are forgetting the hummingbird processor which is more powerful than the snapdragon in the evo. Internal storage is important when the memory card is under the battery. As you said, the screen is better than the evo's 65k color screen. It also doesn't have the 30fps limit "feature". You are fooling yourself if you don't think the galaxy s is at least a competitive phone, if not better.
Negrito said:
His Macbook Pro lags? One, i doubt that, and two are you saying that those of us "claiming" not to have lag are just making it up?
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Yes, his MacBook Pro lags, but only the mouse tracking, not the whole system... tho I ended up fixing it by installing appropriate drivers and now mouse is as snappy as any other Windows based computer. now he DOES see the difference
No, I'm not saying that all make up those claims, not at all... just saying not all those "claims" are true, as was the case with my friend's Evo.
k2snowboards88 said:
You are forgetting the hummingbird processor which is more powerful than the snapdragon in the evo. Internal storage is important when the memory card is under the battery. As you said, the screen is better than the evo's 65k color screen. It also doesn't have the 30fps limit "feature". You are fooling yourself if you don't think the galaxy s is at least a competitive phone, if not better.
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Weird, I thought 1ghz, and 1ghz were the same regardless of the maker... And i said storage is erroneous to ME. Also, if i need sixty billion colors i'll watch a blu ray on my HDTV.... not while trying to browse the web on a 4 inch display.... Also i never said it wouldnt be a competitor...
Quick question where can i check out one of these Galaxy phones? Thats right there not available. So until they come out and everyone has had a chance to play with it and find its flaws, just like the Evo and every other electronic device trying to live up to its own hype, then we shall see who is competing with who.
EDIT: Also if we are just comparing specs, then why not throw the HD2 in the ring? Should that be a competitor too?
frifox said:
Yes, his MacBook Pro lags, but only the mouse tracking, not the whole system... tho I ended up fixing it by installing appropriate drivers and now mouse is as snappy as any other Windows based computer. now he DOES see the difference
No, I'm not saying that all make up those claims, not at all... just saying not all those "claims" are true, as was the case with my friend's Evo.
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Ahh ok. I was going to say... My Blackbook is over two years old and still runs like a beast, but that could be the 4GB of RAM and the 7200rpm HD.
For the record though, mine arent claims, and i seriously believe that if Sprint didnt load all those crappy apps, and HTC would optimize Sense no one would have lag. With out the Sprint apps or Sense UI how could this phone not be blazing fast. I cant wait to play with a fully functional Froyo ROM. The improvements should yield a user noticeable difference.
Thought this would fit in the development thread. Please move to general if felt needed. http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/09/htc-says-evo-4gs-30fps-cap-on-video-output-cant-be-increased/#comments
"HTC says EVO 4G's 30fps cap on video output can't be increased
By Chris Ziegler posted Jul 9th 2010 5:31PM Even though we've seen evidence of a hack that circumvents it, we've been able to corroborate a story over at AndroidGuys this week that the HTC EVO 4G's 30fps cap on screen output is a terminal condition -- so says HTC, anyhow. The official story is that the cap was necessitated by the phone's support for HDMI-out, and there's no way the company could craft a software update to nix the limitation. Of course, as usual, we have every faith that the xda-developers community is going to magically take care of this in a way that's easy enough for at least power users to install -- but until then, you'll just need to deal with a frame rate that's just barely perceptible to the human eye. We suspect you'll manage."
Not really breaking news IMO, they have been saying that.
I can see where people might get excited by your thread title only to be disappointed tho lol
Rippley05 said:
Not really breaking news IMO, they have been saying that.
I can see where people might get excited by your thread title only to be disappointed tho lol
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Agreed, changed to recent news. Dont want to mislead anyone.
Wrong section....
Well that's a shame.
Guess we won't have their engineers to help us on this one
More work for us..
When we truly fix this cap, we should all get together one day, knock on peter chou's door and hold out our phones running silky smooth gears.
They've been saying that since day one.. Are we seriously getting trolls here or is it just a coincidence that someone feels the need to reiterate this every day?
I'll sit here and enjoy the 46FPS on my novatek panel for now, hopefully at 60FPS soon enough.
I wonder if its possible to fix this issue but break HDMI output?
I mean I could care less about hooking my phone to my TV to watch anything in HD...
Or am I missing something
Housoft said:
They've been saying that since day one.. Are we seriously getting trolls here or is it just a coincidence that someone feels the need to reiterate this every day?
I'll sit here and enjoy the 46FPS on my novatek panel for now, hopefully at 60FPS soon enough.
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Just sharing the most recent news my man. And I dont think HTC ever confirmed this. They claimed to have been "working on it". I figured the devs would like to see what HTC recently said. Move the thread if you have the power to then!!
I've wondered if it could be fixed by killing power to the HDMI-out. Seems like HTC woulda been able to include an HDMI-out toggle and enable 60fps w/ HDMI toggleOFF if that were the case though.
old news and wrong section
Housoft said:
I've wondered if it could be fixed by killing power to the HDMI-out. Seems like HTC woulda been able to include an HDMI-out toggle and enable 60fps w/ HDMI toggleOFF if that were the case though.
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That seems like the logical thing to do. However, you have to remember we're talking about HTC.
On another note, I would love to get rid off the HDMI port to have full 60fps. I know for sure that I'll never ever use that stupid feature in my life from a phone.
jblazea50 said:
That seems like the logical thing to do. However, you have to remember we're talking about HTC.
On another note, I would love to get rid off the HDMI port to have full 60fps. I know for sure that I'll never ever use that stupid feature in my life from a phone.
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If HTC turns out to be right and the screen *must* be limited to 30fps in order to enable HDMI, then it seems to me like the development community has a pretty clear (if difficult) plan in front of them. Once 60fps is figured out, then including a settings-style toggle between 30FPS/HDMI and 60FPS/No HDMI would be the solution. Hell, auto-toggle it when an HDMI cable is plugged in or yanked, too. And if we ever get an always-on HDMI out for the whole interface, that switching system could still work. Well, in theory.
directly from an htc engineer, not some exec who doesnt really know what hes talking about.
there are two interface adapters, one for the lcd and the other for the hdmi port. the lcd uses mddi 1.1 while the rgb is used for hdmi. the mddi 1.1 operates at 30fps and no software update will fix it. changing the refresh rate is all that can be done, and this causes tearing which weve seen. sorry guys, but unless the hardware changes (it wont) were stuck at 30fps. keep in mind, however, that most movies and tv shows are shot at 24fps
hilarious considering there are two threads that bypass the fps cap on both the epson and novatec panels.
Im so sick of hearing "most movies are shot at ... fps". Most movies also have a constant frame rate that doesnt stutter or surge. Not to mention the input lag.
There are times when I am scrolling that I can literally count the frames, that is just unacceptable.
cnstarz said:
hilarious considering there are two threads that bypass the fps cap on both the epson and novatec panels.
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its been done by changing the refresh rate; like the post says its a dirty hack and theyre not sure what is causing the cap. this is whats causing the cap.
kellybrf said:
its been done by changing the refresh rate; like the post says its a dirty hack and theyre not sure what is causing the cap. this is whats causing the cap.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but this has been posted many many times... in the appropriate threads. Hardly any new information. Also, sometimes even HTC engineers don't know what the heck they are talking about.
zeuzinn said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but this has been posted many many times... in the appropriate threads. Hardly any new information. Also, sometimes even HTC engineers don't know what the heck they are talking about.
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Ok, but is the OP right? I don't feel like wading through the other multiple threads. Is the current kernel fix a true fix, or is it a hack that doesn't really get us past the 30fps barrier?
I have a novatec panel and have no tearing. I read that epsons do have tearing tho.
zeuzinn said:
Sorry to burst your bubble but this has been posted many many times... in the appropriate threads. Hardly any new information. Also, sometimes even HTC engineers don't know what the heck they are talking about.
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I have to agree here. I work for a software company in tech support and sometimes I'm clueless about a feature of the software that I have been using for over 5 years. Funny thing is not all the programmers and developers know how to even navigate through the front-end of the software. So just because they are an "engineer" at HTC, don't mean crap to me.
the panels have nothing to do with it, theyre capable of a higher fps its the mddi adapter that is holding it back
and let me rephrase the htc engineer thing...its from an evo engineer who knows all about the phone
This is a dead horse being mercilessly beaten. Some of the kernels hit 50 fps, and really that's all that's needed. It feels absolutely smooth. If it's possible to 'correctly' remove the cap, then I have every confidence in the dev community to break it.
But, creating these threads are not productive, and offer nothing that hasn't been said before. If all we're left with is a dirty hack, I'd be happy.
eagle63 said:
Ok, but is the OP right? I don't feel like wading through the other multiple threads. Is the current kernel fix a true fix, or is it a hack that doesn't really get us past the 30fps barrier?
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Yes the fps is capped at 30 and yes the hack does work for novatec panels. Epson get tearing with the fps hack.
shep211 said:
Epson get tearing with the fps hack.
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Click to collapse
Not for long. *evil grin*
eagle63 said:
Ok, but is the OP right? I don't feel like wading through the other multiple threads. Is the current kernel fix a true fix, or is it a hack that doesn't really get us past the 30fps barrier?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hack does get us past the 30fps. Before the source was released they got close to 56fps on both Novatek and Epson LCD panels. Now with a new source the most they have been able to get is 40-50fps, but now with working camera and 4G. It's only a matter of time though. And if you know HTC, they are known for saying it's a hardware limitation when it's in fact, software.
The phone has only been on sale for little over a month and look at all the amazing work that has been done. This amazing community's work rivals the speed of light, so I wouldn't worry about it.
I may be misunderstanding what a midi adapter is...but...what I am thinking of has nothing to do with video?
halorin said:
This is a dead horse being mercilessly beaten. Some of the kernels hit 50 fps, and really that's all that's needed. It feels absolutely smooth. If it's possible to 'correctly' remove the cap, then I have every confidence in the dev community to break it.
But, creating these threads are not productive, and offer nothing that hasn't been said before. If all we're left with is a dirty hack, I'd be happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, this is new information. there is no mention on this forum of mddi or rgb interfaces (i checked...edit, except that i checked the wrong thing ) obviously theyve been able to do some things, but its beating a dead horse to try and remove the cap the correct way because its a hardware limitation. anyway, i put the information out there for the developers who know about these things, not for people to debate on if its right or not. tear down your evo if you want and youll find the parts, do the research and find it to be the case
kellybrf said:
no, this is new information. there is no mention on this forum of midi or rgb interfaces (i checked.)
Click to expand...
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It's not. Do more searching and you will find it. Heck, I even got that same information as a reply from HTC customer service more than 20 days ago!
kellybrf said:
no, this is new information. there is no mention on this forum of midi or rgb interfaces (i checked.) obviously theyve been able to do some things, but its beating a dead horse to try and remove the cap the correct way because its a hardware limitation. anyway, i put the information out there for the developers who know about these things, not for people to debate on if its right or not. tear down your evo if you want and youll find the parts, do the research and find it to be the case
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That has been 'known' now for about two weeks, A quick search would have revealed that this 'engineer' hasn't revealed anything that HTC hasn't claimed before
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6896671&postcount=982
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6897077&postcount=989
If it was a hardware cap it would be IMPOSSIBLE to have a software "dirty hack" bypass it.... What you are saying is IMPOSSIBLE! We have proven that it is not a hardware cap. It would be helpful since you are a EVO engineer at HTC. To hook us up with the people responsible for the coding of this fps limit. I am not flaming.
sablesurfer said:
I may be misunderstanding what a midi adapter is...but...what I am thinking of has nothing to do with video?
Click to expand...
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wow, been a long day. mddi, which explains why midi turned up no results
kellybrf said:
keep in mind, however, that most movies and tv shows are shot at 24fps
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The look of 24p is only considered superior because it's more film-like - which is purely a matter of conditioning on our part. We've become adjusted to an image with limited data and we somehow equate this with quality, as it's nearly analogous to the film experience which was considered greatly superior to video until recent years. (Even when the bulk of televisions default to 3:2 pulldown to display it. Ugh.)
That being said, I'd never use that excuse for a refresh rate on a monitor. I'm sorry, that argument simply doesn't carry any weight with me.
I'm more than happy with my phone and I don't play any games on it, so I'm not too upset if this news does end up being the final word - but the comparison to film and television simply isn't applicable.
Anyway, hasn't anyone ever watched sports in 720p at 60 fields per second and marveled at how smooth the action is?