Related
Having contacted SE about poor battery life, abysmal in call volume and the persistent screen lock after call ending, they have suggested that I should return my handset for remedial action - however, should no fault be found I shall have to stand the costs.
As a significant number of x10 owners have experienced the same or similar, symptoms as myself I do not agree that the handset is faulty and have suggested to SE that they monitor the various forums dedicated to their handset (which, I have pointed out, should be a world beater)
OR we could all send our handests into SE for service?
Think we should find the email adresses of the main SE men and deluge them with messages.......................................
Yeah, the mature way to deal with a problem. Moan and moan.
The problems will be fixed with the updates to the best of their ability.
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yetep said:
Yeah, the mature way to deal with a problem. Moan and moan.
The problems will be fixed with the updates to the best of their ability.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fine. They still advertised a completely unrealistic battery life. I know all mobile companies do this, but usually not to such a ridiculous degree. Come on. They deserve some scorn for that.
You can say that they ran into some unforeseen problems. I'll even buy that excuse, no questions asked. That still doesn't explain their initial claims about battery life. It's a valid complaint that doesn't deserve to be brushed off as mere whining.
But even so does it merit every single one of us calling/emailing one number / email address?
This is similar to the other thread about 2.2/2.3 instead of 2.1... as the saying goes.. "I want" gets people nowhere.
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yetep said:
But even so does it merit every single one of us calling/emailing one number / email address?
This is similar to the other thread about 2.2/2.3 instead of 2.1... as the saying goes.. "I want" gets people nowhere.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps not, but Sony should be made aware of this issue. I'm sure they are already, but they seem to be taking their time doing something about it.
This is less of an "I want" issue and more of an "I bought" issue. I bought a phone with the advertised battery life. I didn't get it. I'd say the people in that boat have reason to complain.
The 2.2 stuff I don't really care about. I'm still perfectly happy with 1.6.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Contact SE about the problems every one is experiencing may be the only way certain issues get addressed. You can not assume that SE has identified every issue.
A few phone calls each to SE customer support should make sure they don't take us for granted.
yetep said:
But even so does it merit every single one of us calling/emailing one number / email address?
This is similar to the other thread about 2.2/2.3 instead of 2.1... as the saying goes.. "I want" gets people nowhere.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a better suggestion to ensure that our voices are heard and that SE focus their efforts on the developments that matter most to us, rather than leaving them to get on with it in the hope that they don't just develop what they think we might want?
fm1776 said:
The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Contact SE about the problems every one is experiencing may be the only way certain issues get addressed. You can not assume that SE has identified every issue.
A few phone calls each to SE customer support should make sure they don't take us for granted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, if a few phonecalls worked, the G2 would have gotten 2.1 months ago .. phone calls dont mean anyhting .. especially since people like SE have released 3 patches already for there x10, and the carriers aren't releasing them, and the locked phones, wont accept "check for system upgrades" .. not only SE's fault, defn' carriers fault aswell .... either way ... lame they throw out 415 hours of standby using gps, wifi, all the others they threw in there, realisticallyit is getting more more than 20-25 hours with using the Rachael UI .. that is brutal.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Contact SE about the problems every one is experiencing may be the only way certain issues get addressed. You can not assume that SE has identified every issue.
A few phone calls each to SE customer support should make sure they don't take us for granted.
bulltronStudios said:
lol, if a few phonecalls worked, the G2 would have gotten 2.1 months ago .. phone calls dont mean anyhting .. especially since people like SE have released 3 patches already for there x10, and the carriers aren't releasing them, and the locked phones, wont accept "check for system upgrades" .. not only SE's fault, defn' carriers fault aswell .... either way ... lame they throw out 415 hours of standby using gps, wifi, all the others they threw in there, realisticallyit is getting more more than 20-25 hours with using the Rachael UI .. that is brutal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, no is forcing anyone to call. Some will, like myself. And, others like yourself will not.
My original Motoral flip phone held a longer charge than this X10. SE should have waited a bit longer to release this thing. But, instead they rushed to market knowing many of the issues and had no problem accepting everyones money. Now they can accept some unpleasant complaints from the owners.
fm1776 said:
Well, no is forcing anyone to call. Some will, like myself. And, others like yourself will not.
My original Motoral flip phone held a longer charge than this X10. SE should have waited a bit longer to release this thing. But, instead they rushed to market knowing many of the issues and had no problem accepting everyones money. Now they can accept some unpleasant complaints from the owners.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think calling, or not calling is the way, either way, its not gonna fix the issue, maybe it Q4 when 2.1 drops for x10... they will be fixed, and i agree whole heartedly that SE has absolutely no issue taking money while delivering a sub-par UI and drivers ... and making the customer wait out the fixes while tethered to their power sources
Well yeah... to quote the sale of goods act :
A product must be advertised accordingly with the actual product sold. It must not be shown of different specification without being included in the advertisement for that product.
So yeah I changed the words a bit to make them easier to understand for everyone, but a LEGAL route is going to be a better route rather than a complaint route.
Theyve had their time and I agree I'm fed up with it but effing and moaning is going to get us nowhere.
However, I know I personally don't have the cash to take them to court over something I find fairly feeble anyways. And the "*" next to battery life for example does refer the reader to a statement along the lines of "Subject to software configuration and data use." The battery life they claim will be running basic basic android, with all antenna off and phone on standby so that'll be the argument.
However, one word of advice for those that call is to use big, fancy words. The turkeys that answer their phones in the callcentre won't understand and therefore get scared at, things like "sale of goods act" and "quoted advertisement material".
Enjoy. Ill keep tabs on this post to see what happens from here. Never know, I might get involved.
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Think about it this way.. the more people who phone, the more calls will be answered.. the more agents they need answering phones.. the more it costs them.
also.. the more MI they get from the calls that is reported back from the call centres to the management team who make the decisions..
It's true that there is no point moaning an whinging on here.. or to the SE call centres.. but if people phone and email and do it more and more, with a real request or a point to make, or a "fault" to report etc.. then the bigger impact it has on SE, both from a financial perspective, and also from a strategic decision making perspective..
The furore around the X10 is bigger and more veciferous than any other phone out there.. and that noise must be concerning for SE..
Maybe the best thing to do is sell this X10 and leave SE for another provider that takes after sales more serious.
What do you think about the HTC EVO 4G due out this month?
i'm so glad i checked here before i got rid of my hd2 for one of these sounds VERY familiar to the xperia x1 1st days until the software update (which took a age)
not very construtive i know but thx guys for making my mind up.
Mobbs said:
i'm so glad i checked here before i got rid of my hd2 for one of these sounds VERY familiar to the xperia x1 1st days until the software update (which took a age)
not very construtive i know but thx guys for making my mind up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the kind of thing that is the most likely to make Sony get their act together. This is supposed to be their flagship phone. If they can't go to the effort of making this work as advertised out of the box then perhaps they should rethink their business model.
I personally like the phone and enjoy using it. I'd recommend it to people (in Canada) who are okay with its current limitations. That being said, if Sony can't fix their issues with their flagship mobile product I don't think I'll be returning as a customer when it's time for me to get a new phone.
Battery life issues seem to be sporadic...
Remember the golden rule of the internet people... *****ing always sounds louder than praise. There's a bunch of users here... maybe 100 or so, but that barely makes even a percentage point of the phone's owners....so things are obviously going to be exaggerated.
My Xperia, for example, can go two or three days without a charge, and that's with using it everyday and having email poll every 5 minutes, and Facebook every 30.
iead1 said:
My Xperia, for example, can go two or three days without a charge, and that's with using it everyday and having email poll every 5 minutes, and Facebook every 30.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I seriously doubt that...regardless what firmware are you running??
And if you're actually in Japan help the cause out man, Sony definitely cares more about their Japanese customer base than the Canadian one, ruffle some feathers over there for the greater good!
I also get 2-3 days out of one charge. Of course depending on usage.
I sometimes only get 1 day.. but then I have used it heavily (several hours.. both streaming music, GPS, wifi etc. )...
My normal pattern gets me 2 days straight without charging. I commute 2 hours each day listening to audiobooks and streaming music.
Firmware: R1FB001,
Baseband: 1.0.21
Helix launcher, no taskkillers, weather and calendar widgets, two mailaccounts gmail and one IMAP that polls every 30min.
If I do not use it much I get 3 days.
Regards // R
I sent SE an email, somebody answered and told me it was redirected to another department and i'll be contacted soon.
More than 3 weeks and nobody answered
This is real customer support this days
I just got a response from HTC regarding an email that I sent that had to do with pretty much all of the EVO's issues, grounded screen, fps, etc. I'd like to attach the email, however their is a confidentiality Note at the end of it stating that I could get into some legal trouble if I share it with others...Not exactly sure how that works, but I don't want any problems so i'll just sum up what was said.
Regarding the screen issues, I was told that they are under investigation and changes have been made and they are researching any other changes that may be necessary. He said they do have software updates coming out soon but he couldn't specify the exact date... so from all this I assume that within the next month or so all screen issues will be resolved. Their will be an update that takes care of the grounding issues and newer model EVOs wont have issues with the screen coming out of place..
Anybody holding out on the EVO because of its screen problems just wait a month and most likely it will be good.
As for the FPS cap, all he did was confirm that it was a hardware limitation and that they are aware that it has an impact on gaming performance. However, he also stated that they have reports of the FPS rate causing sluggish screen responses (which in all honesty, it doesn't) but they haven't been able to replicate....He did't address as to whether or not any changes would be made or not..
I think that it is finally safe to say beyond a reasonable doubt that the fps cap is hardware related, no more need to waste time over whether it is or isn't. I don't know much about phone development, so i'm not sure if you can remove the cap if it's hardware related, but I assume since HTC was testing to see if it had any effect on the overall performance of the device and since they were trying to replicate any issues the cap might have caused, then that might be a signal that it is fixable. Why would they even worry about it otherwise?
I just wanted to update you all because I know a lot of EVO users have been having numerous concerns. I started a new thread because all of the previous ones are becoming to overcrowded with egomaniacs.
hope this helps even the least bit.
P.S the email that I received actually seemed to be very genuine and wasn't nearly as generic as most of the previous emails many of us have been receiving.
yeah we really needed another thread on this.
starplaya93 said:
I think that it is finally safe to say beyond a reasonable doubt that the fps cap is hardware related
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, no. We won't know for sure until more research is done and the kernel source is released. Everything else is pure speculation.
As for the responses, you apparently got the same canned responses people have been getting on the other thread. I'm not sure if creating a whole new thread for this was necessary.
well the person I emailed was the HTC product support manager and he and htc in general have no reason to lie about it being a hardware issue. It doesn't save nor create any extra hassle for them if they lie to us. We are their customers and the EVO is their product, they know it best... So being that THEY HAVE NO REASON TO LIE TO US, we can conclude what both sprint and HTC managers have told us about the cap is true...
and I didn't post this thread to necessarily be a replacement for the other, I just wanted a fresh start so I people could avoid reading through all of the useless bickering and get updated.
No hostility is necessary, I was just simply trying to do the members of this forum a favor.
starplaya93 said:
he and htc in general have no reason to lie about it being a hardware issue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, yeah they could lie... And have a really good reason to. Imagine if they told you it was a software issue, would you back off? But your willing to back off if it is a hardware limitation.
HTC has lied to us before. I want to say Mogul with the GPS chip, but I don't remember which phone it was. So many ROMs and phones ago..
HTC LIE?!?! ROFL. Everyday that goes by they're breaking the law by not releasing the Kernel Source for every phone they have out...
HTC is above the law and the truth.
VoXHTC said:
HTC LIE?!?! ROFL. Everyday that goes by they're breaking the law by not releasing the Kernel Source for every phone they have out...
HTC is above the law and the truth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a law requiring them to release a kernal source? Considering how out of touch the legal system is with technology, I can't imagine that.
This sucks if it is hardware though. It doesn't explain the 60fps boot-up stuff though, usually hardware is hardware, if it can do 60fps at all, it should be able to do it within the OS with the proper drivers/etc.
It's just like the AT&T Tilt when they claimed the phone didn't have the "hardware" to do the 3d. When it turned out (if I recall) they were just too cheap to buy the drivers from Broadcom and co.
I can't help but think that maybe this is a hold-back feature (limiting 3d gaming) simply so they can release an almost identical phone (different shell, model. carrier?) 6 months down the road as "new" without doing much R&D on it. It's a tactic that Apple has thrived with for years on their iPhone.
KyleK29 said:
There's a law requiring them to release a kernal source? Considering how out of touch the legal system is with technology, I can't imagine that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short answer: Yes. Many companies have successfully been sued for millions for not complying with the GPL license. This isn't much of a "technology" issue as it is a licensing issue.
MordyT said:
I want to say Mogul with the GPS chip, but I don't remember which phone it was. So many ROMs and phones ago..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah- When Sprint first released the Mogul (PPC-6800), they said the GPS would not be available for use. The Internal GPS was locked blah blah blah, then HTC released a firmware that unlocked the GPS along with Rev A and other stuff.
Wow, that was... 3 years ago now??
Aridon said:
yeah we really needed another thread on this.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, that was assholish
KyleK29 said:
There's a law requiring them to release a kernal source? Considering how out of touch the legal system is with technology, I can't imagine that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they agreed to the GPL by using the linux kernel. Nowhere in the GPL does it say 'you can release your modified source whenever you feel like it, as long as you do it EVENTUALLY.' HTC is violating the GPL every second that the kernel source remains unreleased.
Also, this whole hardware/software based cap issue is tending to be rather heated. People just need to chill. It all boils down to, noone has any proof that it is either hardware or software based.
There are many interpretations from that HTC email that you talked about in the OP. My personal interpretation is that there was a hardware limitation that caused them to create a software based cap on the framerate. Which would still imply that it was a hardware limitation, but the only solution they could come up with at the time was to cap the framerate. Now I could be wrong, but that is how I take the vagueness of their responses.
Keep in mind too, these are their customer service emails. They aren't going to go into detail with you about why they did what they did and how they did it. They are just going to try to make you feel like you got as much info as you needed to remain satisfied.
F**k em
People are you flippin serious ? We overclock our hardware all the time with software . Even hardware ( the screen) has software. We just need the kernel source and asop Rom. We overdrive our lcd's from 60 to 75 and even 90fps on laptops. Iam sure we will drain battery and gain more heat.
The Droid Incredible is the same hardware minus the different screen and it does not have that issue. The cpu/gpu is the same. So the screen is the only thing it could be hardware and there is no way they put a 30hz screen. If the screen was 30hz they would have to put a software cap on the gpu to lock it at 30fps to match the screen. Then why if thats the case are some people getting higher then 30fps when the screen is off? It should always be at 30fps no matter what. I think they put a software cap to save battery and they got caught with their pants down. I bet they didnt think people would find out so quick and was hoping this would give them time to fix battery life issues. I read somewhere that 4g is a tack on patch on 2.1 and the 4g isn't really supported until 2.2 (Froyo). Thats kinda why 4g eats the battery so bad.
The only other thing it could be is because of the Hdmi, i will go into that one later.
Here's another response I got from HTC:
Thank you for your reply. Your feedback is very important to us. The touch screen is pressure sensitive. For example, by applying direct focused pressure, and swiping your finger in quick strokes, the pages will scroll more quickly. If you apply, light pressure, and scroll lightly, the pages will not scroll as fast. It takes time to get to know the device, but hopefully, these tips will help you better navigate on the device. Since the HTC EVO 4G employs a unique HDMI output to deliver video in HD quality to an external display, the hardware graphics driver interface on the HTC EVO 4G uses significant resources for the HDMI output and therefore displays graphics at 30 frames per second on the integrated display. This is hardware, and not software, limitation. It’s important to keep in mind that content including most movies and television, are created to run at between 24 and 30 frames per second. The 30FPS is a hardware limitation. We have found that some games may be impacted by this limitation. Thank you again for contacting HTC. I appreciate the time you have taken, to share your experience with us today. I want to apologize for any inconveniences you may have experienced. In order to help improve our service I’d like to invite you to take a survey at http://survey.htc.com/worldwide
I ask about the FPS and this is the response that I got from HTC
Dear -----------------,
Dear Mr(s) ------------------- Thanks for contacting our Technical Support center, where we will give you the best service's quality and the answers for all your questions. Right now we know about this issues with this models nad we are working in order to launch a hot-fix to solve it, as soon as we launch it you will be able to donwload it from our website, thanks for all you information, we recommend you visit regularly the htc page for new updates www.htc.com/www, click on support,select your phone and click on download software.
roybotnik said:
Yes, they agreed to the GPL by using the linux kernel. Nowhere in the GPL does it say 'you can release your modified source whenever you feel like it, as long as you do it EVENTUALLY.' HTC is violating the GPL every second that the kernel source remains unreleased.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, we get engadget, etc to cover the 30fps cap but there is very little coverage on the GPL violations. We won't get any straight answers on these issues until the source is released, that is what we should be pushing for.
Oh well... I just gave you guys my interpretation on the situation. Everybody has their two cents and thats fine, lets just all agree to disagree... If the devs here have been busting their ass's to fix the cap and have got nothing, then thats just more proof that it is a hardware cap...
In the end it won't matter I suppose. when htc releases the kernel, regardless if its a software or hardware cap, we should be able to fix it.
We should all just wait it out and see what happens. The phone hasn't even been out for a month. Patience is a virtue I suppose...
It's getting pretty obvious that it's a hardware cap. With that said, why on earth would they do a hardware cap just for hdmi when most people will never even use it once? It's not like we'll use hdmi every minute of every day. Bad decision on HTC's part. "Hey, let's take away 50% of the graphics power and put it into hdmi, even though people won't use it everyday or even ever."
Sorry but as a programmer/developer I'm not happy with this, do you know how much code we'd have to add/change for a gimped EVO? I planned on developing some apps for android, but now I have to make special versions for the evo because of hardware fps caps... or I could just say "Because of hardware fps issues, it doesn't work with EVO, sorry EVO users!" I'm definitely not gonna program all my games and graphics applications to run at 30fps when everyone is running at 60fps, except the gimped EVO.
I'll be exploring other options like the droid x, droid 2, galaxy s.
Thanks HTC!
The phone has been out for two weeks. Lack of development on something we need the source code on to fix means jack ****.
Many device have too wait longer just for root much less anything significant.
Taken from the official Sprint thread here:
http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/43883?start=540&tstart=0&reqsorting=dec
"Good news - an update will be released tomorrow 9/30. It will be rolled out over a 4 day period so not everyone will get it on day 1.
I will have the standard MR information (fixes included, rollout schedule, etc) available tomorrow morning and will post it in a new featured thread."
AWESOME!
yea, the day after the 30 days is up for people that bought on the first day, so not really that awesome, lets just pray it fixes the problem. I'm not really optomistic to be honest. Just to convenient to hold off like this.
Second update since release. I do have to admit, it's kind of nice to see Samsung actually supporting a phone for once.
This is great news! And we are getting Cyanogen Mod 6! I couldn't be happier. :-D
robl45 said:
yea, the day after the 30 days is up for people that bought on the first day, so not really that awesome, lets just pray it fixes the problem. I'm not really optomistic to be honest. Just to convenient to hold off like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I understand where you're coming from, I agree with styckx that it's just good to see them doing something about it. I do wish they'd acted on this more quickly, but better to roll out a fix now than wait months to release one or not release one at all.
It's crazy to hear people complain about updates from Samsung from my perspective. I'm a Touch pro 1 owner that basically received no updates from Sprint/HTC. And previous to that was the Mogul that went months without an advertised feature (Rev A/GPS). I'm way more wary about HTC than Samsung.
Epic ordered finally here. Was waiting for 10/1.
fooo1 said:
It's crazy to hear people complain about updates from Samsung from my perspective. I'm a Touch pro 1 owner that basically received no updates from Sprint/HTC. And previous to that was the Mogul that went months without an advertised feature (Rev A/GPS). I'm way more wary about HTC than Samsung.
Epic ordered finally here. Was waiting for 10/1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It stems from Samsung's history, mainly with the T-Mobile Behold 2. They advertised that it would be getting Android 2.x then never delivered on their promise and stranded users with 1.6. While HTC has probably been the best manufacturer in terms of supporting their Android phones.
I had a launch day Hero, and I don't think support was the fastest for that either. Most everything I did through XDA and androidforums.<---alot faster than waiting for the manufacturer/carrier to roll out and update.
Just my thoughts...
Chris
cswee1932 said:
I had a launch day Hero, and I don't think support was the fastest for that either. Most everything I did through XDA and androidforums.<---alot faster than waiting for the manufacturer/carrier to roll out and update.
Just my thoughts...
Chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read a lot about Samsung after purchasing my Samsung Moment. I found they had a nice history of let downs and lack of support. Then the Moment went on and on without a mention of a fix, or patch, or anything. That was a complete lemon of a phone (data lock ups and unfixable GPS) that Samsung all but abandoned less than a year after launch and still to this day the Moment forums are mainly filled with people trying to fix data lock ups and the GPS. It's ashame really.
Epic was going to be my last run with Samsung, and despite some bumps in the road I've been pleased so far as they are at least taking initiative with this phone it seems. I personally think they have no choice. It's one thing to piss off 1 carriers customers, and another to piss off multiple carriers customers by not supporting a phone.
Hope the support continues.
so you guys are excited that they put out an update that fixed nothing and screwed up the phone? thats great, all it meant is I had to go and uninstall the mediahub crap so my battery life didn't suffer, the gps issue remains, the upload issue will likely remain after this update as well. so that really equates to them doing nothing in my eyes.
I've never experienced a upload cap on my phone. Does anyone know if this update includes other fixes other than just the 3g upload cap?
crajee16 said:
I've never experienced a upload cap on my phone. Does anyone know if this update includes other fixes other than just the 3g upload cap?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you ran the Speed Test app on 3G? I've yet to see anyone get over a stable 150kbps (sure it bounces upwards towards 200 on occasion but then levels out). From working in hosting it shows exact throttling behavior, as it uploads it jumps past the 150 mark to around 170-180 and then down to a stable 150 almost immediately. It's hard to believe this to be some sort of coincidence since it's able to be replicated in many different 3G markets across the country.
punzada said:
Have you ran the Speed Test app on 3G? I've yet to see anyone get over a stable 150kbps (sure it bounces upwards towards 200 on occasion but then levels out). From working in hosting it shows exact throttling behavior, as it uploads it jumps past the 150 mark to around 170-180 and then down to a stable 150 almost immediately. It's hard to believe this to be some sort of coincidence since it's able to be replicated in many different 3G markets across the country.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, mine actually goes to like 6000+ for a little while, then dips down to under 50 kbps. Yes, under 50! I have some SpeedTest results that have come in under 20 kbps upload!
Even my 3G speed is horrible. Never over 500 download. I'm looking forward to this. Luckily I am usually either in a WiFi zone or a 4G zone.
punzada said:
From working in hosting it shows exact throttling behavior, as it uploads it jumps past the 150 mark to around 170-180 and then down to a stable 150 almost immediately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may seem to be throttling behavior. Ultimately though, those of us aware of how a data radio and associated software *actually works* know full well that it's because the dwarf hamsters spinning in their wheels are, in fact, unionized. Because of the upload tragedy of 2009, in which millions of poor hamsters perished on the Touch Pro 2 because of faulty speed governors installed in the cages, strict regulations were put in place for the Epic, dictating that no hamster may run unsupervised in their wheels, and that they must trade off shifts every 128kB with their spotting partners. It's this switching that causes the fluctuations you observe during the speedtest runs. You may have noticed a bit more heft in the Epic vs say, the Captivate. You might mistakenly believe it's the keyboard, when in fact it is the added weight of the supervisory hamsters.
Another shortfall in communications speed arises because Samsung, to save weight from the added hamsters, decided to use smoke signals as a databus between the CPU and the baseband processor. This was chosen over the "flashing mirrors" approach due to cost and weight issues. This compounds the upload cap problem because as the phone rests in your pocket, it accumulates moisture. The soot particles from the smoke then seed rainclouds, which can interrupt the dataflow between baseband and CPU as the receiver operators duck for cover at a nearby tavern.
So, you see, this is clearly a compound problem. Obviously, this week's update will include a staff of more hamsters, more wheels, and dehumidifiers, all so your phone can shuttle data more efficiently. This is a brilliant feat of engineering, I might add. So, expect your phone to weigh more by the end of the week, though how much more, nobody knows. And please, do post the truth about how the phone's internals really work, punzada... anything else would be a blatant disservice to the hard-working bit-crunchers in your phone.
^^ wat
Also from that thread:
Desi,
I'm on the phone right now with tier 2 support to try to find out what's in the update because this is my last day if I'm going to return the phone and I'm being told that they don't see anything about the battery life, GPS, or this data upload issue in this release.
I know you said that you're putting that information up tomorrow, but I have to make a decision today.
The tech is saying there is NO FIX FOR THE CAP ISSUE FROM SAMSUNG yet or anything to improve the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Desi's (admin) reply:
Joe,
The 3G upload issue is definitely in the release.
I doubt the GPS issue is since I just forwarded input from this forum over to engineering for further analysis.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess we will have to see if it actually fixes anything. But it seems like tier 2 is at least finally aware of (or admitting to) the problem with the upload. Doesn't sound like there will be anything for the battery or GPS though.
GlassGorilla said:
I guess we will have to see if it actually fixes anything. But it seems like tier 2 is at least finally aware of (or admitting to) the problem with the upload. Doesn't sound like there will be anything for the battery or GPS though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery and GPS are (for me, anyway) easy workarounds. 3G upload cap is what it is; there's no getting around it other than using wi-fi or 4G (which I can also usually do, but not everyone can).
I'll be happy to have that upload cap fixed if for no other reason than people will quit using it as an excuse to post "should I return my Epic for an Evo?" threads here and elsewhere.
My feeling is the amount of pressure on Sprint had an affect on how hard they pushed samsung.
That and the fact that until a few days ago users were being told for weeks running that no one but they were reporting the problem exacerbated the problem.
So it s a cause for celebration that they are pushing out a fix, but I don't think it is at all established that this would have occurred so soon if it where not for all the noise.
As far as GPS, not only are there problems, but the "advice" given by Sprint: use the unrelated "wireless networking" is an absolute laughable and patronizing dodge.
As others have noted, working around with cold starts or manual resets does fix the main issue.
I have been in contact with the moderator of eh Sprint forum privately some time ago, and he put me in with ADP (ADP, not ADS) on this issue. They are diagnosing it, and have not come to any conclusion other than they have seen the issue themselves.
aero1 said:
My feeling is the amount of pressure on Sprint had an affect on how hard they pushed samsung.
So it s a cause for celebration that they are pushing out a fix, but I don't think it is at all established that this would have occurred so soon if it where not for all the noise.
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Click to collapse
Well. Apparently we have a voice, which is a good thing.
I'm hopeful, but I am not holding my breath. I think it is likely the vast majority of Epics were pre-ordered or bought on launch, 08/31. 30 days would be 09/30. The announcement could be an attempt to get people who bought on launch that were going to return it on the last day to keep their phones, and then when the update doesn't "may increase" or "possibly enhance" or whatever the legal gymnastics statement said, those people can't return the phone any more and Sprint isn't really under any obligation to fix it.
Whether it's an angleshoot or a genuine attempt to fix it, I am anxiously awaiting the first reports tomorrow.
GlassGorilla said:
I think it is likely the vast majority of Epics were pre-ordered or bought on launch, 08/31. 30 days would be 09/30. The announcement could be an attempt to get people who bought on launch that were going to return it on the last day to keep their phones, and then when the update doesn't "may increase" or "possibly enhance" or whatever the legal gymnastics statement said, those people can't return the phone any more and Sprint isn't really under any obligation to fix it. .
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Click to collapse
Sprint is serious exposed to class action liberality, which involves not just awards, but legal costs, and more importantly really bad press.
I have a written note from ecare from last week saying no one has reported this issue. Hundreds of users seem to have been told the same thing. Not that the speeds are normal, but that they were low speeds but unique to the customer. That presents a legal liability for Sprint right here.
I think we will all know in a few days.
You guys should probably take a chill pill on the conspiracy theories already. I'm sure it would cost Sprint much less money and hassle just to fix this software issue rather than go out of their way to "conveniently" tell you that there's a "fix" that doesn't really exist but they used their "legal gymnastics" to trick you into holding onto your phone past the 30 day mark. They are a company that wishes to exist more than 2 more years, why would they go out of their way to screw you and guarantee you leave in two years when a couple of patches could save them and Samsung a ton of customers?
Its not like fixing this issue requires the recall and replacement of every phone, and them fixing this problem is not an incredibly inconvenient issue. You know why they're telling you the day before your 30 days that the update is coming? Because telling you after you return the phone wouldn't do anyone much good. Why didn't they tell you sooner? Because these things, while not impossible or some ludicrous endeavor, do take time.
I'm not even meaning to take their side really. Sure, they should have caught the issue before launch, and they should have addressed the issue in public... but if you're only gonna sign onto networks willing to do either of those things then you're not going to be purchasing a cell phone in America. I mean, Steve Job's stance on Antennagate is still "Shut up whiny babies, this issue doesn't exist, but I'll give you a free case if you shush and go back to fellating me..."
Hi All,
I thought I would just share my encounter with Samsung Customer Centre in Sydney.
I spoke with a rep this morning, below is my lose recollection of the conversation:
Me: "Hi, I was wondering when the Samsung Galaxy S will be upgraded to Froyo"
Samsung Rep: “It should be soon, but we really don’t know”
Me: “Well the websphere has been showing that the upgrade was meant to be end of August, then end of September and now sometime in October, so there’s still no news”
Samsung Rep: “No, what they are doing is working with the carriers to test the firmware, if there are any bugs the carriers are sending it back to Samsung US to fix, then Samsung US will send it back to the Australia carriers to retest. It can take some time”
Me: “So you’re saying that Froyo is in it’s testing cycles”
Samsung Rep: “Yeah”
So what we can see here is that release could be imminent as they are now going through User Acceptance Testing. This leads me to believe that whatever Froyo Firmwares are floating around out there, are likely to be as close to final as they will ever be.
For all the people out there who have installed the current Froyo builds who are expecting to see more, I don’t think that’s going to happen, but if some of the issues on the phones feel like bugs there is still hope to get them fixed.
I suspect Samsung will get out Froyo soon and once the angry mobs are abated, will then use their pressure free time to really optimise it.
Cheers,
Irwin Proud
I seriously hope that is not true, if what is floating around are the "final" ones, then we are in a deep crap load of doo doo here.
so many devices dead due IMEI damage, and many more dead due Internal SD overkill, and all the bugs people have reported... the future suddently just looks darker
I think the IMEI problem is a bug, so I'm sure it's being worked on. I actually think it could be a hardware problem, as I had to have my mainboard replaced after an Odin flash that caused the IMEI number to corrupt. I got a call from the Samsung repairer a couple of weeks ago and he was saying it was happening to more phones.
I think it'll work well (not great), it just won't be the powerful beast that it should be. Samsung may not have had the best judgement when they decided to make 8 phones with the same architecture, but slightly different specs. It means that they have to split their resources across the different phones just to do the one Android 2.2 update for them.
I agree with the canook there p), It seems that Samsung is using us XDA ppl to be unpaid guinie pigs. NOT HAPPY JAN!
Is JIT even enabled in the leaked Froyo's?
ickyboo said:
Is JIT even enabled in the leaked Froyo's?
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From what I've been reading, apparently it is, it's just not optimised for hummingbird.
So in other words, blame the carriers. Something I've done for years. Greedy b all of them. Can just hope the mobile market approaches the "freedom" seen for the net and not the other way around.
my insider also told me the same thing back in 1 month ago..
and last week he still insisted it is currently under carrier testing and most probably will be done by next week...
so far all the soruces i got from him was true and accurate(like the date SGS released by optus and vodafone, galaxy tab details,etc)
Why is everyone lusting so much for the Froyo? Unless its the people that are experiencing the gps issue and lag. My SGS is perfect so far, none of the problems stated above, so for me when the update comes its welcome but until then am i missing anything much really?
Cheers
Vlad
dovla_sa said:
Why is everyone lusting so much for the Froyo? Unless its the people that are experiencing the gps issue and lag. My SGS is perfect so far, none of the problems stated above, so for me when the update comes its welcome but until then am i missing anything much really?
Cheers
Vlad
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Flad, i guess you are your phone for
Calls only? Can't imagine that you didn't experience any lagg with normal usage.that, our your standards are low.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
My main issue is that Samsung releases a full GPS fix in Froyo, so I can use the phone as advertised. I can live with a little lagg now and again.
I just hope they sort it, or my phone is going back!
Logicalstep
In regards to the GPS problem, whenever I was on google maps before, it would never give me my location and then after I updated the google maps app it found the locations perfectly.
But CoPilot Live has always worked well on my SGS.
Logicalstep said:
My main issue is that Samsung releases a full GPS fix in Froyo, so I can use the phone as advertised. I can live with a little lagg now and again.
I just hope they sort it, or my phone is going back!
Logicalstep
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For me the speed of the phone is good enough, I only install a dozen extra apps and they work fine enough.
The color is fine in my phone running Froyo JPK. Wifi, 3G, FM radio, video playback, work fine.
The GPS keeps being a Guessing Positioning System. It smoothes the path for 15 seconds or so, and when you turn 90º, it keeps showing that you're traveling along the previous street for several seconds. Then it starts moving the position to the new street, doing a curve... But this takes so much time that you may be on the next intersection before the dot is in the correct street. Then if you turn 90º again, the dot overshots the corner, continues along the second street, does a smooth curve heading slowly to the 3rd street...
dovla_sa said:
Why is everyone lusting so much for the Froyo? Unless its the people that are experiencing the gps issue and lag. My SGS is perfect so far, none of the problems stated above, so for me when the update comes its welcome but until then am i missing anything much really?
Cheers
Vlad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly why I am eager for Froyo to be released for the SGS. My phone isn't as stable as others' handsets, the lag is a pain in the arse and there are features such as JIT, that will make my SGS experience much more pleasant, and Chrome to Phone, that will make more productive use of my time.
ro4sho said:
Flad, i guess you are your phone for
Calls only? Can't imagine that you didn't experience any lagg with normal usage.that, our your standards are low.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
The only lag i have experienced is when adding app shortcuts. Which is not deal breaker for me at all.
And why would someone buy basically "hyper-phone" for calls only? Think about it little bit before making a statement like that.
And speaking about the standards, what that has to do with anything?
GPS works just as it did on my iPhone with Copilot.
Cheers
Vlad
ikenley said:
From what I've been reading, apparently it is, it's just not optimised for hummingbird.
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Click to collapse
Well thats bloody great! grrrrr.. Thats the only thing I wanted out of Froyo. Looks like i'll be staying on Eclair til maybe sometime next year when they sort out the optimizing. Man I'm lusting at the Desires as their JIT works and it more then doubled the Quadrant scores (yeh yeh i know Quadrant is a **** benchmarker)
Thank god for Cyengenmod team as I think they will do a proper release once Froyo source is out.
Since getting my phone back from the Samsung repairer after the IMEI corrupted, i've been reluctant to flash these beta roms using Odin.
So I'm more than happy waiting till it's official. I came from the Nexus One with Froyo, I went for the Galaxy because of it's superior specs, especially 4" screen and 2GB Nand.
I've also really appreciated some of the improvements that TouchWiz has brought to the experience.
But Froyo on the Nexus One was a game changer, it completely opened up the phone and made it fly. I would rather wait for Samsung to get JIT optimised, clean up their system and smoothen the entire interface before releasing Froyo. It's more their lack of engagement with their customers that's the problem.
Has anyone used Fennec, with their nightlies? That's the way to engage your community and get buy in for the wait.
Development cycles are not perfect and when you fix one bug a new one opens up, all I say is let us know its getting there.
dovla_sa said:
The only lag i have experienced is when adding app shortcuts. Which is not deal breaker for me at all.
And why would someone buy basically "hyper-phone" for calls only? Think about it little bit before making a statement like that.
And speaking about the standards, what that has to do with anything?
GPS works just as it did on my iPhone with Copilot.
Cheers
Vlad
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Because i have tested quite a bunch of I9000s and they all experienced a lot of lagg. Opening applications took 10 seconds. You can try searching youtube for samsung i9000 lagg and compare the footage with your phone.
ro4sho said:
Because i have tested quite a bunch of I9000s and they all experienced a lot of lagg. Opening applications took 10 seconds. You can try searching youtube for samsung i9000 lagg and compare the footage with your phone.
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Click to collapse
I have had my phone for over two months and can honestly say that I have never experienced a lag of more than 2secs when opening any app on my phone.
Whilst I am looking forward to FroYo, I will definately be waiting until I have heard a few reactions from more experienced users before rushing to download.
ikenley said:
Since getting my phone back from the Samsung repairer after the IMEI corrupted, i've been reluctant to flash these beta roms using Odin.
So I'm more than happy waiting till it's official. I came from the Nexus One with Froyo, I went for the Galaxy because of it's superior specs, especially 4" screen and 2GB Nand.
I've also really appreciated some of the improvements that TouchWiz has brought to the experience.
But Froyo on the Nexus One was a game changer, it completely opened up the phone and made it fly. I would rather wait for Samsung to get JIT optimised, clean up their system and smoothen the entire interface before releasing Froyo. It's more their lack of engagement with their customers that's the problem.
Has anyone used Fennec, with their nightlies? That's the way to engage your community and get buy in for the wait.
Development cycles are not perfect and when you fix one bug a new one opens up, all I say is let us know its getting there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did a quick review thingy in the Apps thread about Fennec, and I must say, I'm quite impressed with latest build as last build i tried was a month ago and it just crashed alot and wouldn't actualy run. GPS problems aside I havn't really had any
ro4sho said:
Because i have tested quite a bunch of I9000s and they all experienced a lot of lagg. Opening applications took 10 seconds. You can try searching youtube for samsung i9000 lagg and compare the footage with your phone.
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Click to collapse
10 seconds to launch an app? Never had that. Not sure on which firmware is that but my JM2 bog standard have never needed so much to open a app.
Copilot opens up for me in around 4 seconds. And thats after the reboot before killing all the apps that are running in the background.
Hello fellow DVP owners, I've been following all the issues we've had pretty closely and stalking DellCares twitter quite a bit. I know everyone has been focused alot on the issues with it but this is the first official word we've had that Dell is looking to address some of the issues.
emed795 Hi Erik, just wanted to let you know that DVP memory and other issues to be addressed in future sw update. No ETA yet. Thanks, AB 6:00 PM Jan 13th via CoTweet
im_thatoneguy Software update for DVP camera in progress, no ETA on it yet. Let us know how troubleshooting steps worked for you. SV 5:39 PM Jan 6th via CoTweet
Hopefully WiFi is also included in this update........
Saw the Twitter post. Hmm, well, another promise. Hope they do something. Of course, we'll have to go through the long, long wait, but this sort of goes with Dell's MO--problems addressed (in part) in the future. At least in my experience with them. It'd be nice to avoid problems at the get-go, but as they say, "Remaking the world, now that is folly."
At least they're not being adamantly silent about it.
Too little too late and still no mention of an international release. I've given up on that phone and everyone should at least until MWC. There are alternatives if you can't wait and if you can there will be stuff at MWC.
Peew971 said:
Too little too late and still no mention of an international release. I've given up on that phone and everyone should at least until MWC. There are alternatives if you can't wait and if you can there will be stuff at MWC.
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The phone works fine for me, can even use wifi with a workaround so I'm quite happy with it. With the DVP being one of only 2 options for T-Mobile US users there really isnt much of a choice if you want a WP7 phone. You guys in Europe have more options to choose from, but if the issues are resovled it will be one of the best WP7 devices. And again MWC may bring new devices but I doubt they will be US bound so again the DVP still looks like a good buy to me. Even the camera can be made to produce good pictures with some adjustment of the settings, so this update will definitely be a plus.
efjay said:
The phone works fine for me, can even use wifi with a workaround so I'm quite happy with it. With the DVP being one of only 2 options for T-Mobile US users there really isnt much of a choice if you want a WP7 phone. You guys in Europe have more options to choose from, but if the issues are resovled it will be one of the best WP7 devices. And again MWC may bring new devices but I doubt they will be US bound so again the DVP still looks like a good buy to me. Even the camera can be made to produce good pictures with some adjustment of the settings, so this update will definitely be a plus.
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Click to collapse
What has the tech world come to when we pay for a premium product and we are forced to accept work arounds to get it to work. I understand that some fixes are always needed but most are usually software related (WP7 being new) but this device seems to have more issues that are directly related to the unit itself.
I have to say every time I hold one I am drawn to it but I have a hard time with a unit that costs this much and has these kinds of issues.
I hope that Dell can get the fixes out there quick so that we can get more of these in people's hands.
gshocker said:
What has the tech world come to when we pay for a premium product and we are forced to accept work arounds to get it to work. I understand that some fixes are always needed but most are usually software related (WP7 being new) but this device seems to have more issues that are directly related to the unit itself.
I have to say every time I hold one I am drawn to it but I have a hard time with a unit that costs this much and has these kinds of issues.
I hope that Dell can get the fixes out there quick so that we can get more of these in people's hands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your point but is there a perfect device? Even the phone to rule all phones (iphone) has issues (bumper anyone?), the WP7 OS itself has a reproducable bug on every handset with the MP crashing, yet we still use it. Problem with the Dell was the high expectations of the device since it was first leaked, then we had to deal with the release delays, shipping issues, virtually no communication from Dell and then after finally getting the device bugs that affected what could be considered fundamental functions. Probably led many to either give up and purchase something else or return it after receiving it and feeling it didnt live up to the expectation.
However the fact that I am happy to use a workaround does not mean I have accepted the faults and overlook them, I and others have contacted Dell and told them about the issues and as any decent company would they have responded with an upcoming fix (more than we can say for HTC and the pink camera bug on the HD7). This is what I would expect of any company and since Dell has responded I'm OK with a workaround till the fix is released. If there was another bug free device available to me I would have switched to that, but there isnt on my carrier so I still use it as I personally have no other option on T-Mo US. This whole saga could have gone better and will obviously be a factor in any future decision about purchasing a Dell smartphone but for now I feel satisfied with the choice I made, all things considered.
I think I am willing to be a bit more forgiving, given that I used to be a Software Developer. I understand the qualms of getting bugs fixed ASAP, but the SDLC doesn't allow it all the time. I am also willing to cut Dell some slack because the guys in the Mobility team have been awesome. Sure, customer service at Dell, as a whole, sucks monkey balls, but once they have you transferred to the right team, they're quite helpful. I think a huge issue for a lot of people is that they don't like talking to people from India, and then that's where all the bashing starts. I guess it depends on your tolerance level?!
If it is a concession, I spoke to someone in the Mobility team yesterday evening and they confirmed that these issues (camera, bluetooth, WiFi, etc.) are known and have been escalated. She did not know about how soon the update would roll out.
I think if they continue to communicate with us early adopters and roll out a software update to address some of these core issues, they'll at least have one happy camper on their side.
I am pretty patient with my devices these days, and with purchasing a first gen device (from a company with little experience in mobile) I am even more forgiving. Worst case scenario, I sell the phone and buy something else, lesson learned. From my experience with Dell (currently and past) they get fixes out, it just takes some time.
I won't be making any of those decisions on this phone until we see the issues with memory and camera fixed (WiFi is much less of an issue for me because I'm in a "4G" zone.) For now, I love the form factor, and I get more questions and "wow's" than anyone else when they see me pull the thing out with the giant DELL logo on the back (teh sex).
I'm generally happy; I have very few problems. The worst one was Monday the phone locked up while charging overnight so my alarm didn't go off.
I'm much more irritated by Dell's almost total silence on what issues they're aware of, which are being investigated, etc, etc. Heck, the twitter feed is the only confirmation we have that they even consider the RAM reports from the WP7 API an issue to investigate!
Still, the device is very responsive and performs very well as I suck its battery dry on Xbox Live, so I'll hang on to it and wait patiently for updates.
Thanks for pestering Dell for us!
efjay said:
The phone works fine for me, can even use wifi with a workaround so I'm quite happy with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you describe the workaround and what it fixes for you?
xthing said:
can you describe the workaround and what it fixes for you?
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I disable 3G in the Cellular settings, but I have had 1 crash with that turned off so it may not be a consistent fix.
That just made my week. Hopefully it comes soon.
efjay, I've been trying your workaround and I think it's working. Thank you!
Saitek009 said:
That just made my week. Hopefully it comes soon.
efjay, I've been trying your workaround and I think it's working. Thank you!
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Good to hear, don't know why it doesn't work for me anymore but hopefully Dell's fix won't be long.