HTC reports 32gb microSDHC 2.0 as supported, which *should* allow contiguous fat 32, but some have claimed the phone itself can only format the first (presumed) 16gb.
Further, there is *nothing* released regarding architecture (i.e. SPI and/or 4 bit modes, voltage, min/max read/write speeds, 'n such). Not even which class *may* exceed their capabilities.
Am I the only one upset over this lack of disclosure, or have we all been lulled into submission by this great new device? and, oh, yes, it is kinda great... but I digress.
I need engineering details specific to the HTC Droid Incredible, beyond the marketing strategies and press releases, if anybody's got 'em yet. Much appreciated ...
Not to be so negative or cynical but what are you going to build a phone? Are you trying to get attention? Please explain in detail what you need this info for I am really interested and if its for ANDROID then I won't ask you to move your post. But if this has nothing to do with ANDROID then please do not post in here. Read the title of the section it says Droid Incredible ANDROID development not Droid Incredible Development. Last I checked SD card readers are not specific to Android. There is a general section where this could go and live in peace.
That was incredibly hostile.
I think that this is a perfectly valid question, even given that it's in the Development forum.
Maybe Developing a workaround is not to be considered development?
Maybe it just requires some modifications to the related kernel module? In my opinion, that has a lot to do with ANDROID the operating system that you so vehemently barked at him about.
Not to be so negative or cynical but what are you going to build a phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Think about what you just said, and think about where we are. There was no need for your remark.
tdavis42 said:
1. Not to be so negative or cynical but what are you going to build a phone? Are you trying to get attention?
2. Please explain in detail what you need this info for I am really interested and if its for ANDROID then I won't ask you to move your post. But if this has nothing to do with ANDROID then please do not post in here.
3. Read the title of the section it says Droid Incredible ANDROID development not Droid Incredible Development.
4. Last I checked SD card readers are not specific to Android. There is a general section where this could go and live in peace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. We had nine phones at my last count, two of which are Increds, of which mine is reportedly 13th sold locally, so... no, I've no desire to build a phone. And, to 'show off' via the 'net is *almost* as stupid as arguing needlessly w/in forums.
2. Uhmm...No; I'd tell you why, but then they'd kill us both.
(Just kidding) But, anybody that wishes to develop for the droid OS on this Incred I' m poking' the virtual keys on *should* have enough creative thought w/in to think of many reasons: This post is exactly where it belongs.
3. Answered above. But, further, perhaps you should consider my questions nearly so well as I review forum hierarchies prior to posting them.
4. Uhmm.. remove the cover carefully, and you should find the exact same slot w/in your Incred as I'm considering w/in mine. Now, beyond using cables, there are a number of wireless methods that make cards inserted there accessible...
But, my questions remain: What speeds are consistently available for microSDHC read and write in the HTC Android Incredible, and under which conditions were they measured? Is this device capable of SPI and/or 4 bit mode(s)? Can this device format the full 32gb internally, and is the entire volume available?
Now, if you have the answers, I'm anxiously awaiting your response. And, if you don't have the answers, remember that I don't either; just gettin' started here. Either way? Kindly quit peein' all over my post
DHowett said:
snipped.... I think that this is a perfectly valid question, even given that it's in the Development forum.
Maybe Developing a workaround ...snipped... just requires some modifications to the related kernel module? In my opinion, that has a lot to do with ANDROID the operating system ...snipped
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm brand new to this current flavor of OS, beyond following along conceptually, but you're thinkin' about the relationship between devices and the OS/Apps developed to operate/run 'em in the right way ...
I usually get the cheapest tires that will serve my needs, 'cause I'm poor as the dirt I drive on, but wouldn't it be wisest to select a speed/load rating that barely exceeds the limits of the vehicle, and a size/pattern that suits the driving conditions?
Not the best analogy, but ... continuing w/ it anyhow:
If you were really hopin' to tweak performance, then you'd need all the details you could get, like suspension design and torque 'n such.
Not that I'm focused on gaining root, but I suspect the answer would be most easily discovered by those w/ the greatest understanding of exactly what the Snapdragon can do w/in the architecture of the Incred, and every possible detail about Droid 2.1 Linux kernel.
And, the answers to my questions may prove most important to them, too
LegionTHEFecalExcretion said:
Think about what you just said, and think about where we are. There was no need for your remark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets play nice guys
microsd speed (htc support)
Official position is that class 2 devices are guaranteed, but that the HTC Droid Incredible may exceed class 4 ... no specific details are provided to techs beyond this statement, but response time was INCREDibly fast.
cowcreekgeek said:
But, my questions remain: What speeds are consistently available for microSDHC read and write in the HTC Android Incredible, and under which conditions were they measured? Is this device capable of SPI and/or 4 bit mode(s)? Can this device format the full 32gb internally, and is the entire volume available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC website lists the external expansion as:
Expansion Slot
microSD™ memory card (SD 2.0 compatible)
Up to 32 GB card support. No pre-installed card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, Verizon is distributing the phone with a 2gb card.
The SD 2.0 standard is listed as (Not on HTC's site):
SD 2.0 offers FAT32 formatting as well as a maximum capacity of 32GB - sizes of 4GB and above are not compatible with existing SD 1.0/1.1 standards. Any SD card that are 4GB and above in capacity will be dubbed SD High Capacity (SDHC), although the transfer rates of the new format maxes out at a paltry 6MB/s.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The classes that are available and supported are defined by the SD Association which defines them as:
Speed Class 2 guarantees a minimum transfer speed of 2 mega bytes per second (MB/s)
Speed Class 4 guarantees a minimum transfer speed of 4 MB/s
Speed Class 6 guarantees a minimum transfer speed of 6 MB/s.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So since HTC has stated the device supports SD 2.0, it is already saying it supports the related standards so it supports up to the defined Class 6 speeds of 6 MB/s which is defined by the standard. That is most likely the only answer you will end up with unless an independent lab does tests and releases that info. I'm sure HTC isn't going to bother defining it more than it simply being SD 2.0 compatible. Not sure I've seen any other mfg do so.
You of course end up with a can of worms with regards to the "source" of the cards you buy, whether they are in fact what they are labeled as etc... There is a lot of forged and fraudulent cards out there.
BTW, up to 32GB support does not mean the device can format that.... just that it supports it. That would be one continuous Fat32 block of space sans the amount you lose when you format any memory device. Not having had the chance to play with one, I'm not sure what that total would be, but I'm sure it is calculable.
Just keep in mind that Class Ratings = Write Speeds. Read Speeds varies by the SD controller card and by the phone's processor. Also I tend to stick with brands more than class ratings and SanDisk has always treated me well whether it's been MicroSDHC Cards or Duo Pro Memory Sticks. Sometimes Kingston's cards are cheaper with more or less the same results. I need to leave the house now but I will post more tonight on the subject if someone doesn't beat me to it =p.
Excellent points, and thank you for your input. Although I follow your logic, I'm not entirely certain that HTC's claim to "support" 2.0 requires they read/write @ full speed.
In regard to card org's standards? I can't afford the required fee to gain access to complete specifications (playin' by the rules can be frustrating, in that I know *exactly* where the pdf I wish most to read resides).
In regard to card quality/performance? I've bookmarked a few programmers' comments, remembering one who discovered a transcend card's failure to properly respond to SPI mode access, despite claiming full compliance.
An aging but still excellent comparison of many SD/sdhc cards w/in a specific NIKON camera is with lookin' at:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-9597
I've played w/ a few benchmark tools, but have not found comfort in their findings when measuring two Increds (one w/ microSD, the other w/o) under various, but identical, scenarios. I may have to temporarily focus on building a different app, if I can' t find another way to compile the data req'd.
God knows I can't afford to buy one of each card, just to figure all this out.
DeeBG said:
Just keep in mind that Class Ratings = Write Speeds. Read Speeds varies by the SD controller card and by the phone's processor. Also I tend to stick with brands more than class ratings and SanDisk has always treated me well whether it's been MicroSDHC Cards or Duo Pro Memory Sticks. Sometimes Kingston's cards are cheaper with more or less the same results ...(snipped)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, and so very true ... I've already seen wild variances that seem to depend more upon sizes of file(s) and buffer settings than class ratings. In fact, some slower cards have seemed to outperform their betters under certain conditions, presuming benchmark results prove to be accurate.
Speaking of those memory stick pro duos? I bought all but the last one in stock from each of several local clearance stores (for literally pennies in some cases), w/ the intention of stacking under SPI mode. Still haven't gotten around to it, but our Sony's haven't req'd us to delete pictures for a very long time
For "bang for your buck", I would recommend this SanDisk 16GB MicroSDHC. This is probably the one I will be buying myself, so if you want to wait a week I can give you guys real Incredible performance details. However, be warned that it is a Class 2 device. It seems to have been designed with phones in mind (and specifically mentions working well on HTC devices). Saves you a few $ by not including an SD adapter or USB reader. I was impressed by the speeds noted by the user in their PC configuration, but of course I will keep an eye out for better deals and any proven information.
In some scenarios, I've seen a class 2 sandisk perform better than a class 6 dane-elec, but I'm thinking a bit forward about all this ... lookin' to run (or, at minimum, support) app(s) from the card. And, there may be a few more tricks comin' soon.
Thread moved.
Related
First of all, just want to take a moment to introduce myself, this looks like a great community.
I just bought a 8525 from Amazon (its being shipped now), I am a programmer (web developer, database guy @ work, and lots of java, C# and C++ for projects I am working on) This will be my first PDA phone (my current phone is an SE s710a, for which I downloaded the sdk, and used it to make some simple java apps, but became board with it, as it was pretty limited) and I am very interested in getting into programming for the neat little device that will be in transit to me shortly.
Anyway, before all that I have to get the right hardware, I am pretty sure from what I have been reading and searching through that the max microSD card size currently available is 2 GB. And I know the Hermes supports it (with possible slower speed / boot time, yadda, yadda) however in everything I have read, I have not seen one place where a max supported (architectural) size is listed for the microSD slot.
So, does anyone know if the memory address bus on the Hermes will support more then 2 GB if such a card is (or already is) made? (I am truly sorry if I missed an obvious place where this information is offered)
Thanks,
Brian
i had read that the max possible on a micro sd would be 12gb, but I don't remember where I read that.
I would expect to have MicroSD the same limitations as SD cards, since it has only a smaller footprint. This would mean 4 GB for standard MicroSD (as in Hermes) and up to 32 GB for SDHC (not for Hermes, needs a special hardware). I'm not sure though.
Thanks for the responses, at least I feel better that I was not missing the obvious. Seems odd to me though that the information is so elusive. Most other phones I am aware of make note of the max supported card size, but I am new to HTC products, so maybe they just don’t.
Thanks,
Brian
anybody has experience with one of these?
does it slow down the htc hero??
i have a lot of music on my hero and i notice everytime the hero needs to access the sd card it lags a bit, i notice it when i open albums and when i open my music library it lags for a little like if it scans the whole sd card first,
so im thinking the more space the sd card has the more it will lag for these things, anybody got one and can share their experience?
More space != more lag
If you have a faster card it MIGHT have a better chance at faster access. So a class 2 card might seem slow compared with a class 6 card. I haven't seen a definitive test performed on the Hero and the different card classes throughput though.
A card with equal throughput (class speed) will require approximately equal lag time whether the card is a 2gb, 32gb, or anything in between.
Since this is on the topic of sd card, where's the cheapest place to get these?
I've found 8gb class 6 cards on Amazon, but as for 16gb and 32 gb class 6, it seems a little ridiculous in price difference.
HTC Hero? (Sprint) - What type and size MicroSD storage cards can I use?
Q. What type and size MicroSD storage cards can I use?
Currently the MicroSD card supports 2.0 SDHC compatibility up to 32gb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check this thread out:
http://androidforums.com/sprint-htc-hero/11343-sd-cards-you.html
Excerpt:
This is what HTC told me [when I asked what class card to purchase]:
"Good Morning Frank,
Thank you for taking the time to contact HTC America Technical Support via E-Mail with your inquiry about what class of SD card to use in your Sprint HTC Hero. My name is A.J. and I will be happy to assist you today.
If you are looking to purchase an SD card that the device will read at its full native speed you will need to purchase a class 2. The device will read a class 4 but not at its native speeds.
Frank, if you have any future questions about your device please feel free to visit HTC - Touch Phone, PDA Phone, Smartphone, Mobile Computer and send us another e-mail. You may also enjoy HTC Smartphone Wiki - HTC, which has a plethora of information on HTC devices, including the Sprint HTC Hero! I would also like to invite you to participate in a customer satisfaction survey located at HTC Online Survey I hope you have a great day!
HTC America Technical Support
A.J."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it looks like the HTC Hero will read class 2, 4 and 6, but not at the native speeds for 4 and 6. So it seems like a moot point of "what class to buy" if the data bus isn't going to take advantage of a faster card.
simplyphp said:
HTC Hero? (Sprint) - What type and size MicroSD storage cards can I use?
Check this thread out:
http://androidforums.com/sprint-htc-hero/11343-sd-cards-you.html
Excerpt:
So it looks like the HTC Hero will read class 2, 4 and 6, but not at the native speeds for 4 and 6. So it seems like a moot point of "what class to buy" if the data bus isn't going to take advantage of a faster card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am becoming more and more disappointed with HTC and sprint. Too many factors being left on the table for my taste.
well is that a hardware or software aspect of the hero?
ch_ee_ko said:
well is that a hardware or software aspect of the hero?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a hardware aspect, like our cpu and ram.
has this been verified by any benchmarks or can it be? i'm thinking about jumping off on a bigger card, just haven't seen anything definitive about it
i've heard severa people report speed increases by using class 4 or 6 cards. Might not be native speeds but faster than class 2... just a thought.
Currently I'm using a kingston class 4 and the speed difference in loading music or pics off the card is not noticable. I got it for APPS2SD and Linux Swap whenever someone decides to utilize it in a rom.
Can someone post a link to a 32GB card? I can only find dual 16s from Tropam.
I thought San Disk wasn't releasing the 32 GB stuff until next year because they are hit/miss on full storage capacity still.
EDIT:
this year I guess...lol.
Kcarpenter said:
Can someone post a link to a 32GB card? I can only find dual 16s from Tropam.
I thought San Disk wasn't releasing the 32 GB stuff until next year because they are hit/miss on full storage capacity still.
EDIT:
this year I guess...lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tbh i can't find one either... maybe they aren't even released yet? i will keep looking
on my question though...
is there, or can there be, an app that reads/writes test files from the microsd card and tells you how long it took to read/write.... you know, a benchmark... seems the only way to be able to tell if there is a real diff between the classes
from wikipedia
"In February 2009 Sandisk also announced a 32 GB version for the second half of 2009,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroSD#cite_note-4 but as per end December 2009 it is not listed yet."
The Hero has no problem significantly exceeding the capabilities of a Class 2 card.
Using the C2 card the phone came with, Windows 7 reports reads maxing out at about 3 MB/s. Using a C6 card that I bought, Win7 reads at 10 MB/s and writes at 6.5 MB/s.
if anyone experienced in java wants to take a crack at it, maybe they could write a native app to benchmark r/w speeds of our sd cards. I think that would be rather handy to have even if it was limited in usefulness.
jonnythan said:
The Hero has no problem significantly exceeding the capabilities of a Class 2 card.
Using the C2 card the phone came with, Windows 7 reports reads maxing out at about 3 MB/s. Using a C6 card that I bought, Win7 reads at 10 MB/s and writes at 6.5 MB/s.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wait what? doesn't that test take the actual phone out of the loop?
skanndelus said:
wait what? doesn't that test take the actual phone out of the loop?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, because it's using the phone's hardware. I'm not taking the card out of the phone - I'm plugging the phone into the computer.
I ran some benchmark program called ATTO or something last night, and it was consistently giving me 5 MB/s with the Class 6 card and 2.5-3 MB/s with the Class 2.
jonnythan said:
No, because it's using the phone's hardware. I'm not taking the card out of the phone - I'm plugging the phone into the computer.
I ran some benchmark program called ATTO or something last night, and it was consistently giving me 5 MB/s with the Class 6 card and 2.5-3 MB/s with the Class 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That makes sense.. but HTC still refuses to say that it will take advantage of it.. but an "in Phone" app to seal the deal would be great.
jonnythan said:
No, because it's using the phone's hardware. I'm not taking the card out of the phone - I'm plugging the phone into the computer.
I ran some benchmark program called ATTO or something last night, and it was consistently giving me 5 MB/s with the Class 6 card and 2.5-3 MB/s with the Class 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right, it's still in the phone, but the phone isn't reading or writing the card, your computer's OS is, while the card is mounted... acting like a usb flash drive... someone correct me if i am wrong...
was the ATTO prog on your pc/mac or on your phone?
thanks
skanndelus said:
right, it's still in the phone, but the phone isn't reading or writing the card, your computer's OS is, while the card is mounted... acting like a usb flash drive... someone correct me if i am wrong...
was the ATTO prog on your pc/mac or on your phone?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The contention is that the card-reading hardware in the phone is incapable of read/write speeds greater than "class 2" speeds. The OS has no card writing speed limitations built-in.
Ask questions now. It goes back together tonight!!
Samsung 031 K4X4G303PC-7GD8 EEG095G1
SanDisk SDIN5C2-4G 0352S0S07A
Seems to answer that question (from a hardware point anyway)
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Looks juicy...
j0nkatz said:
Ask questions now. It goes back together tonight!!
Samsung 031 K4X4G303PC-7GD8 EEG095G1
SanDisk SDIN5C2-4G 0352S0S07A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SDIN5C2-4G .... I am guessing that means 4 GB....?
Doing a little bit of googling got me this....
http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store...=500201&langId=-1&storeId=500201&listIndex=-1
Still looking for the data sheet, If anyone can find it, PLEASE POST IT!!!
What does Android report for the internal memory?
j0nkatz said:
Ask questions now. It goes back together tonight!!
Samsung 031 K4X4G303PC-7GD8 EEG095G1
SanDisk SDIN5C2-4G 0352S0S07A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, it looks like we have 4G if the reference in the part number is what it appears to be
in searching for documents for a full descript on that part number, i found something that may serve the developers trying to root this phone, but it's not good news
"The entire iNAND (including the Boot Area Partitions, General Purpose Area Partition, and User/Enhanced User Data Area Partition) may be write-protected by setting the permanent or temporary write protect bits in the CSD."
a general descript on the chip
"1.1. General Description
iNAND is an Embedded Flash Drive (EFD) designed for mobile handsets and consumer electronic devices. iNAND is a hybrid device combining an embedded thin flash controller and standard MLC NAND flash memory, with an industry standard e.MMC 4.411 interface.
Empowered with a new e.MMC4.41 feature set such as Boot and RPMB partitions, HPI, Background Operations and HW Reset the iNAND e.MMC is the optimal device for reliable code and data storage.
Designed specifically for mobile multimedia applications, iNAND is the most mature on board SD/MMC device since 2005, providing mass storage of up to 32GB in JEDEC compatible form factors, with low power consumption and high performance - an ideal solution for multimedia handsets of 2.5G, 3G, 3.5G and 4G."
both above quotes from http://omapworld.com/iNAND_e_MMC_4_41_IF_data_sheet_v1_0[1].pdf
This might be it.
http://omapworld.com/iNAND_e_MMC_4_41_IF_data_sheet_v1_0[1].pdf
There's a 4G, 8G, and 16G version of that chip. So I would guess that is GB.
http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store...proto=&rohs=&sel=M&storeId=500201&topSellers=
Crap I'm slow!
larryccf said:
well, it looks like we have 4G if the reference in the part number is what it appears to be
in searching for documents for a full descript on that part number, i found something that may serve the developers trying to root this phone, but it's not good news
"The entire iNAND (including the Boot Area Partitions, General Purpose Area Partition, and User/Enhanced User Data Area Partition) may be write-protected by setting the permanent or temporary write protect bits in the CSD."
a general descript on the chip
"1.1. General Description
iNAND is an Embedded Flash Drive (EFD) designed for mobile handsets and consumer electronic devices. iNAND is a hybrid device combining an embedded thin flash controller and standard MLC NAND flash memory, with an industry standard e.MMC 4.411 interface.
Empowered with a new e.MMC4.41 feature set such as Boot and RPMB partitions, HPI, Background Operations and HW Reset the iNAND e.MMC is the optimal device for reliable code and data storage.
Designed specifically for mobile multimedia applications, iNAND is the most mature on board SD/MMC device since 2005, providing mass storage of up to 32GB in JEDEC compatible form factors, with low power consumption and high performance - an ideal solution for multimedia handsets of 2.5G, 3G, 3.5G and 4G."
both above quotes from http://omapworld.com/iNAND_e_MMC_4_41_IF_data_sheet_v1_0[1].pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweet! Now all we need is a fix
Found it! Capacity for the SDIN5C2-4G is 3,957,325,824 bytes.
http://omapworld.com/iNAND_e_MMC_4_41_IF_data_sheet_v1_0[1].pdf
Page 24 in that PDF.
We have it!!!
j0nkatz said:
this might be it.
http://omapworld.com/inand_e_mmc_4_41_if_data_sheet_v1_0[1].pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
confirmed confirmed confirmed!!!!
Page 28
part number capacity
sdin5c2-4g 4gb
hopefull that "...may be write-protected by setting the permanent or temporary write protect bits in the CSD" will tell the developers where to look to see if they root the phone
Great job TC and thanks! So now that it's confirmed we have 4GB of space, what will it take for the phone OS to see it? An OTA update? Is it an artificial or actual limitation of Android OS? Hmmmm.....tantilizing to see what google/htc/t-mo does now as the ball's in their court.
Great find. Thanks for playing doctor on your phone so the rest of us didn't have to!
Great! I knew this phone had 4GB of memory, it was just hidden from the user.
...and of course the Samsung chip is the RAM...
K4X4G303PC-XXXXXX 512 MOBILE DDR SDRA X16 FBGA
http://translate.google.com/transla...G303PC&hl=en&rlz=1C1AVSX_enUS392US392&prmd=iv
Grrr... I'm glad you all are happy that you have what we've paid for but... for us trying to root this bastard... this might be more tough than we imagined. We never faced anything like this before. This is interesting for sure... but a little I TOLD YOU SO! is in order, hahaha!
Great Detective work
I knew from the start it had 4gb. when the free memory was way to close to 2gb. but anyway now we have to find out out to write to the 1gb partion
Every WP7 forum has a thread like this, figured I'd start one.
I want to add a 32gb mSD to my DVP. Could those of you who took the plunge post:
1) Brand
2) Size and class
3) Place of purchase and cost
4) If/Any observed issues after change
Thanks
I guess it would be good to add the result of this test: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=907945
Therefor we may have a consistent list with workable cards...
alabij said:
Every WP7 forum has a thread like this, figured I'd start one.
I want to add a 32gb mSD to my DVP. Could those of you who took the plunge post:
1) Brand
2) Size and class
3) Place of purchase and cost
4) If/Any observed issues after change
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MS has already said that cards on the market at this time, do not meet the requirements for WP7. Sansdisk says they will have WP7 certified cards in the very near future...suspected end of January/February. Why would we even want to invest and track those that are not certified at this time?
Samsung, Dell, HTC, LGE, Sandisk and MS have indicated optinal performance most likely will not be achieved. Why encourage less informed people to change cards when an optimal performance is not assured?
alodar1 said:
MS has already said that cards on the market at this time, do not meet the requirements for WP7. Sansdisk says they will have WP7 certified cards in the very near future...suspected end of January/February. Why would we even want to invest and track those that are not certified at this time?
Samsung, Dell, HTC, LGE, Sandisk and MS have indicated optinal performance most likely will not be achieved. Why encourage less informed people to change cards when an optimal performance is not assured?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow! I appreciate the rant but did you even read my post? It clearly states that "I" would like to take the plunge. Most of the people whom have upgraded their mSD in DVP forum didn't state where they got them from unlike the HD7 forum. Al I was doing was gathering info for me and for anyone else who wanted to do it.
alabij said:
Wow! I appreciate the rant but did you even read my post? It clearly states that "I" would like to take the plunge. Most of the people whom have upgraded their mSD in DVP forum didn't state where they got them from unlike the HD7 forum. Al I was doing was gathering info for me and for anyone else who wanted to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I read your post. And yes....it was a rant. Still has me scratching my head. With virtually no chance of optimal performance, why plunge? I have a Dell with NO SD card. I also have multiple cards around the house....admittedly nothing newer than 6 months. Adding a card from my HD2 immediately introduced lags and locks into the device. Shutting down, removing card, and restarting, no lag, no lock.
UI kind of think of changing SD cards in WP7 like the ending of Thelma and Louise. If we make it to the other side, we'll eat dinner at xxx.
Good luck though....
I just wanted to share my testing with all that are upgrading to Yuki-XBmod Mango Rom.
I was experiencing many problems with Mango on my HD2 and it was all associated to my SD card (patriot 16gb C4), although it worked decently in NODO. After doing some research I came across this great thread in XDA (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1150369) and decided to test some cards out for my self to see if I can get WP7 Mango running smoothly on my phone.
So I figured out that in order for the card to perform properly in WP7 you must have good random write speeds. If not, you will experience freeze, lag, random restarts, and overall headaches with WP7.
So, I did some research and found that Best Buy is selling PNY cards that are WP7 compatible.
Then after reading the above mentioned thread, I saw that the sandisk 32gb class 4 had great random speed results, so I decided to test both and my old patriot 16gb C4 to find out which card I would ultimately use as my HD2-WP7 SD card.
Here are the results, click on PDF to see my screen shots: (note all cards were formatted prior to testing)
Patriot Card:
It is obvious that the Patriot Card's random write speeds are ridiculously low, so this card is going to be re-formatted and will replace my 2gb card on my point & shoot camera. It scored great an sequential speeds (good for cameras), but as it is essential for WP7 to have good sequential write and read speeds, this is not a good choice for WP7 Phones.
PNY Card:
This card did very well. Scoring only higher to the Sandisk in sequential and 512K write and slightly higher (almost negligible) in 4k and 4kQD32, in the 1st run.
Sandisk:
This card (in my opinion did best) scoring higher in all read speeds, lagging only in sequential write speeds and 512K yet higher in random write. Being that random clocking is of most importance to WP7, I think that Sandisk 32gb class 4 will be the SD card I choose for my WP7 Windows Phone.
______________________Conclusion__________________ ______________
Both the PNY and Sandisk cards will work great in WP7 Phones, but I chose the Sandisk because it has higher read speeds. So that means once the program or data is loaded it will be able to read it faster. The most important factor for my decision was that the PNY costs 89.99 plus tax at best buy. The sandisk runs for 69.99 and I did a price match with a Comp USA printout and purchased the card for 59.99 plus tax. (30 dollars cheaper)
I highly recommend that anyone who is planning on switching to WP7, test their cards first with Crystal disk. If your random write speed is low, do not install WP7 until you get a better card.
I have also conveniently attached Crystal Disk so that you may test your cards and post the results. Please understand that the test will not work after you have already encrypted your card with WP7.
I disagree actuallly, after testing myself, i dont believe that testing with this software can indicate the speed of the card.
I believe that there are other factors involved that we are un-ware of.
For example, my 16GB sandisk class 2 gave great randoom r/w speeds with this piece of software, but in practice, it was slow, and very buggy.
So i switcheed and bought a 8GB sandisk class 4, which in tests, was actually slower than then 16gb one, but performed perfectly, lightening fast, installing apps in under 30 seconds everytime.
This is why i dont think you can accurately depict the likelyhood of a card working based on these values alone.
You could argue that if its incredibly slow, (less than 0.1mb/s write) then there maybe be some impact on overall performance, but by that time, youve purchased the card anyway!!
Also, cards maybe the same brand, make and model, but that doesnt mean if someone buys that card, it will work for them.
Completely agree with stevemilw
Ive seen posts of people with 32GB Sandisk Class 4 cards that also do not work,
stevemilw, did you ever try using the HD2 as the card reader incase there was an unseen issue with the card reader its self?
OP, i admire your efforts in trying to make sense of this for people but the reality is that its still a guess, and until you try it there is no way of knowing if its going to work
stevemilw said:
You could argue that if its incredibly slow, (less than 0.1mb/s write) then there maybe be some impact on overall performance, but by that time, youve purchased the card anyway!!
Also, cards maybe the same brand, make and model, but that doesnt mean if someone buys that card, it will work for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cannot disagree with your arguments. That is why I mentioned at the beginning of this thread that these were my results. I agree about the fact that cards under .1mb/s random write, would most definitely fail in WP7. I also agree that cards that score really well in the test might also not perform well in WP7.
But if this thread at least prevents one person from going out and buying a class 10 card and spending lots of $$, for no apparent reason; Just to find out the card doesn't work on the phone, then I believe this post contributed to a good cause.
I opened this thread so that a dialogue may be started so that people may post their results on the random write speeds and real life performance on WP7 Mango.
This way we may weed out some cards that for sure will not work on our devices and find out why based on the testing and not a random persons saying my card did not work in WP7. With this tool we can figure out why the card did not work. (too much or too little speed)
Happy Testing!!!!
dazza9075 said:
Completely agree with stevemilw
Ive seen posts of people with 32GB Sandisk Class 4 cards that also do not work,
stevemilw, did you ever try using the HD2 as the card reader incase there was an unseen issue with the card reader its self?
OP, i admire your efforts in trying to make sense of this for people but the reality is that its still a guess, and until you try it there is no way of knowing if its going to work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very True, I have also seen posts of people with Sandisk 32gb C4 cards say they don't work.
The reason I started this thread is to ask, Why didn't it work?
If your card did not work please do not clutter this thread with words saying so. Please show us data and testing on the card so that reader in this forum may analyze and figure out why the card didn't work.
Hopefully we can find out what type of card is required for good WP7 operation.
there is already a thead on this, which Steve an I took part in, there appeared to be some link between results, in that Random 4K reads needed to be around 600IOPS and random 4k writes needed to be around 20IOPS MIN,lower than that created issues. Unfortunately it wasnt as simple as that as some had cards with huge IOPS figures but still had dodgy performace.
The only thing that we never confirmed (hence my post) was if the card readers could have had a performace impact/
The other issue you have now is that we will be unable to test those SD cards once used with Mango 7712+
now, if you want to have an accurate test then i would suggest setting up a step by step guide to make sure that as many variables are removed as possible
That would be something akin to, a deep full format of the SD using a specific program with specfic settings, then connect it to something that we all have (the HD2 itsself in MAGLDR USB storage mode is a good start, then connect it to a USB 2 socket on a motherboard, then run the program for x number of times with specific settings, take an average, and then report.
You will need to get them to write down the full make and model number,
Getting folk to do that is going to be your biggest problem, but its a good idea if you can get the support for it, if enough people do it then perhaps something might be useful out of it, but unless you make up strick guidelines that everyone follows then the results will be meaningless.