Database Users

Hermes (8525) max microSD size

First of all, just want to take a moment to introduce myself, this looks like a great community.
I just bought a 8525 from Amazon (its being shipped now), I am a programmer (web developer, database guy @ work, and lots of java, C# and C++ for projects I am working on) This will be my first PDA phone (my current phone is an SE s710a, for which I downloaded the sdk, and used it to make some simple java apps, but became board with it, as it was pretty limited) and I am very interested in getting into programming for the neat little device that will be in transit to me shortly.
Anyway, before all that I have to get the right hardware, I am pretty sure from what I have been reading and searching through that the max microSD card size currently available is 2 GB. And I know the Hermes supports it (with possible slower speed / boot time, yadda, yadda) however in everything I have read, I have not seen one place where a max supported (architectural) size is listed for the microSD slot.
So, does anyone know if the memory address bus on the Hermes will support more then 2 GB if such a card is (or already is) made? (I am truly sorry if I missed an obvious place where this information is offered)
Thanks,
Brian

i had read that the max possible on a micro sd would be 12gb, but I don't remember where I read that.

I would expect to have MicroSD the same limitations as SD cards, since it has only a smaller footprint. This would mean 4 GB for standard MicroSD (as in Hermes) and up to 32 GB for SDHC (not for Hermes, needs a special hardware). I'm not sure though.

Thanks for the responses, at least I feel better that I was not missing the obvious. Seems odd to me though that the information is so elusive. Most other phones I am aware of make note of the max supported card size, but I am new to HTC products, so maybe they just don’t.
Thanks,
Brian

Porting The Iphone OS

soo.... i see very little discussion about this.
has anybody here looked into actually porting the iphone os
heres a link to get you going if you havent
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/07/13/iphone-os-x-architecture-the-mach-kernel-and-ram/

i know people say you cant...
hardwares not the same. man i asked a stupid question to fast. sorry. next time i will think.
i just think it would be fun. i probably would not use it very long since it wouldnt be very functional on anything other than its true hardware. since i doubt anybody has the kinda time it would take to get a full working version.

Easiest way to do this is wait till July 11th, save up $199 and go buy an Iphone if you want one that badely!

Unfortunately, because of the different processor architechture, you'd need to basically rebuild the core/kernel...
And, since it's virtually impossible to even get into the kernel, that seems like it could take a long time
The kernel is not part of the software image that crackers have been looking at. Instead, it sits on its own encrypted disk image, which appears to require massive brute force efforts to decrypt. If it is ever unlocked, it will likely have to involve a workaround crack, because it is scrambled with a long enough key that makes simply guessing the password virtually impossible.
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That is a typically badly written, lousily research roughly draughted article.
Saying that "other phones are limited to 2gig" and having the N95 with SDHC support there - ie. it can take 4/8/16/32gig as and when they become available.
And so what if the other phones have less memory - they don't need it! Symbian has been designed from the ground up for mobile devices.
Symbian are trying to catch up on functionality???? Where does that load of rubbish come from? The Symbian and iPhone browsers have the same underlying engine, and the S60 browser is about as fully featured as any.

clonmult said:
That is a typically badly written, lousily research roughly draughted article.
Saying that "other phones are limited to 2gig" and having the N95 with SDHC support there - ie. it can take 4/8/16/32gig as and when they become available.
And so what if the other phones have less memory - they don't need it! Symbian has been designed from the ground up for mobile devices.
Symbian are trying to catch up on functionality???? Where does that load of rubbish come from? The Symbian and iPhone browsers have the same underlying engine, and the S60 browser is about as fully featured as any.
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Symbian does hang quite alot (N95 release build for example...)
Also, most devices have SDHC now, which is up to 32 (maybe 64GB soon). And, a large number of WM devices have more RAM than 64MB anyway...
WM has far more functionality than the iPhone OS, and both S60 and WM have developers
And now this thread has turned into yet another iPhone flame

l3v5y said:
Symbian does hang quite alot (N95 release build for example...)
Also, most devices have SDHC now, which is up to 32 (maybe 64GB soon).
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That is partly true my device only supports SDHC cards(even with the hack at this point in time) up to 4gb(if there was a 5gb card that be the max it supports, not even 6gb shows up in full).

yrsmart said:
That is partly true my device only supports SDHC cards(even with the hack at this point in time) up to 4gb(if there was a 5gb card that be the max it supports, not even 6gb shows up in full).
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I'd guess therefore that your device doesn't have the SDHC hardware (SDHC uses longer address bytes), and has instead had the drivers patched to recognise SDHC cards rather than be truly SDHC compliant.

a thread * not* about rooting: detailed specifications, microsdhc access methodology

HTC reports 32gb microSDHC 2.0 as supported, which *should* allow contiguous fat 32, but some have claimed the phone itself can only format the first (presumed) 16gb.
Further, there is *nothing* released regarding architecture (i.e. SPI and/or 4 bit modes, voltage, min/max read/write speeds, 'n such). Not even which class *may* exceed their capabilities.
Am I the only one upset over this lack of disclosure, or have we all been lulled into submission by this great new device? and, oh, yes, it is kinda great... but I digress.
I need engineering details specific to the HTC Droid Incredible, beyond the marketing strategies and press releases, if anybody's got 'em yet. Much appreciated ...

Not to be so negative or cynical but what are you going to build a phone? Are you trying to get attention? Please explain in detail what you need this info for I am really interested and if its for ANDROID then I won't ask you to move your post. But if this has nothing to do with ANDROID then please do not post in here. Read the title of the section it says Droid Incredible ANDROID development not Droid Incredible Development. Last I checked SD card readers are not specific to Android. There is a general section where this could go and live in peace.

That was incredibly hostile.
I think that this is a perfectly valid question, even given that it's in the Development forum.
Maybe Developing a workaround is not to be considered development?
Maybe it just requires some modifications to the related kernel module? In my opinion, that has a lot to do with ANDROID the operating system that you so vehemently barked at him about.

Not to be so negative or cynical but what are you going to build a phone?
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Think about what you just said, and think about where we are. There was no need for your remark.

tdavis42 said:
1. Not to be so negative or cynical but what are you going to build a phone? Are you trying to get attention?
2. Please explain in detail what you need this info for I am really interested and if its for ANDROID then I won't ask you to move your post. But if this has nothing to do with ANDROID then please do not post in here.
3. Read the title of the section it says Droid Incredible ANDROID development not Droid Incredible Development.
4. Last I checked SD card readers are not specific to Android. There is a general section where this could go and live in peace.
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Click to collapse
1. We had nine phones at my last count, two of which are Increds, of which mine is reportedly 13th sold locally, so... no, I've no desire to build a phone. And, to 'show off' via the 'net is *almost* as stupid as arguing needlessly w/in forums.
2. Uhmm...No; I'd tell you why, but then they'd kill us both.
(Just kidding) But, anybody that wishes to develop for the droid OS on this Incred I' m poking' the virtual keys on *should* have enough creative thought w/in to think of many reasons: This post is exactly where it belongs.
3. Answered above. But, further, perhaps you should consider my questions nearly so well as I review forum hierarchies prior to posting them.
4. Uhmm.. remove the cover carefully, and you should find the exact same slot w/in your Incred as I'm considering w/in mine. Now, beyond using cables, there are a number of wireless methods that make cards inserted there accessible...
But, my questions remain: What speeds are consistently available for microSDHC read and write in the HTC Android Incredible, and under which conditions were they measured? Is this device capable of SPI and/or 4 bit mode(s)? Can this device format the full 32gb internally, and is the entire volume available?
Now, if you have the answers, I'm anxiously awaiting your response. And, if you don't have the answers, remember that I don't either; just gettin' started here. Either way? Kindly quit peein' all over my post

DHowett said:
snipped.... I think that this is a perfectly valid question, even given that it's in the Development forum.
Maybe Developing a workaround ...snipped... just requires some modifications to the related kernel module? In my opinion, that has a lot to do with ANDROID the operating system ...snipped
Click to expand...
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I'm brand new to this current flavor of OS, beyond following along conceptually, but you're thinkin' about the relationship between devices and the OS/Apps developed to operate/run 'em in the right way ...
I usually get the cheapest tires that will serve my needs, 'cause I'm poor as the dirt I drive on, but wouldn't it be wisest to select a speed/load rating that barely exceeds the limits of the vehicle, and a size/pattern that suits the driving conditions?
Not the best analogy, but ... continuing w/ it anyhow:
If you were really hopin' to tweak performance, then you'd need all the details you could get, like suspension design and torque 'n such.
Not that I'm focused on gaining root, but I suspect the answer would be most easily discovered by those w/ the greatest understanding of exactly what the Snapdragon can do w/in the architecture of the Incred, and every possible detail about Droid 2.1 Linux kernel.
And, the answers to my questions may prove most important to them, too

LegionTHEFecalExcretion said:
Think about what you just said, and think about where we are. There was no need for your remark.
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Lets play nice guys

microsd speed (htc support)
Official position is that class 2 devices are guaranteed, but that the HTC Droid Incredible may exceed class 4 ... no specific details are provided to techs beyond this statement, but response time was INCREDibly fast.

cowcreekgeek said:
But, my questions remain: What speeds are consistently available for microSDHC read and write in the HTC Android Incredible, and under which conditions were they measured? Is this device capable of SPI and/or 4 bit mode(s)? Can this device format the full 32gb internally, and is the entire volume available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC website lists the external expansion as:
Expansion Slot
microSD™ memory card (SD 2.0 compatible)
Up to 32 GB card support. No pre-installed card.
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Click to collapse
Of course, Verizon is distributing the phone with a 2gb card.
The SD 2.0 standard is listed as (Not on HTC's site):
SD 2.0 offers FAT32 formatting as well as a maximum capacity of 32GB - sizes of 4GB and above are not compatible with existing SD 1.0/1.1 standards. Any SD card that are 4GB and above in capacity will be dubbed SD High Capacity (SDHC), although the transfer rates of the new format maxes out at a paltry 6MB/s.
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The classes that are available and supported are defined by the SD Association which defines them as:
Speed Class 2 guarantees a minimum transfer speed of 2 mega bytes per second (MB/s)
Speed Class 4 guarantees a minimum transfer speed of 4 MB/s
Speed Class 6 guarantees a minimum transfer speed of 6 MB/s.
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So since HTC has stated the device supports SD 2.0, it is already saying it supports the related standards so it supports up to the defined Class 6 speeds of 6 MB/s which is defined by the standard. That is most likely the only answer you will end up with unless an independent lab does tests and releases that info. I'm sure HTC isn't going to bother defining it more than it simply being SD 2.0 compatible. Not sure I've seen any other mfg do so.
You of course end up with a can of worms with regards to the "source" of the cards you buy, whether they are in fact what they are labeled as etc... There is a lot of forged and fraudulent cards out there.
BTW, up to 32GB support does not mean the device can format that.... just that it supports it. That would be one continuous Fat32 block of space sans the amount you lose when you format any memory device. Not having had the chance to play with one, I'm not sure what that total would be, but I'm sure it is calculable.

Just keep in mind that Class Ratings = Write Speeds. Read Speeds varies by the SD controller card and by the phone's processor. Also I tend to stick with brands more than class ratings and SanDisk has always treated me well whether it's been MicroSDHC Cards or Duo Pro Memory Sticks. Sometimes Kingston's cards are cheaper with more or less the same results. I need to leave the house now but I will post more tonight on the subject if someone doesn't beat me to it =p.

Excellent points, and thank you for your input. Although I follow your logic, I'm not entirely certain that HTC's claim to "support" 2.0 requires they read/write @ full speed.
In regard to card org's standards? I can't afford the required fee to gain access to complete specifications (playin' by the rules can be frustrating, in that I know *exactly* where the pdf I wish most to read resides).
In regard to card quality/performance? I've bookmarked a few programmers' comments, remembering one who discovered a transcend card's failure to properly respond to SPI mode access, despite claiming full compliance.
An aging but still excellent comparison of many SD/sdhc cards w/in a specific NIKON camera is with lookin' at:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-9597
I've played w/ a few benchmark tools, but have not found comfort in their findings when measuring two Increds (one w/ microSD, the other w/o) under various, but identical, scenarios. I may have to temporarily focus on building a different app, if I can' t find another way to compile the data req'd.
God knows I can't afford to buy one of each card, just to figure all this out.

DeeBG said:
Just keep in mind that Class Ratings = Write Speeds. Read Speeds varies by the SD controller card and by the phone's processor. Also I tend to stick with brands more than class ratings and SanDisk has always treated me well whether it's been MicroSDHC Cards or Duo Pro Memory Sticks. Sometimes Kingston's cards are cheaper with more or less the same results ...(snipped)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, and so very true ... I've already seen wild variances that seem to depend more upon sizes of file(s) and buffer settings than class ratings. In fact, some slower cards have seemed to outperform their betters under certain conditions, presuming benchmark results prove to be accurate.
Speaking of those memory stick pro duos? I bought all but the last one in stock from each of several local clearance stores (for literally pennies in some cases), w/ the intention of stacking under SPI mode. Still haven't gotten around to it, but our Sony's haven't req'd us to delete pictures for a very long time

For "bang for your buck", I would recommend this SanDisk 16GB MicroSDHC. This is probably the one I will be buying myself, so if you want to wait a week I can give you guys real Incredible performance details. However, be warned that it is a Class 2 device. It seems to have been designed with phones in mind (and specifically mentions working well on HTC devices). Saves you a few $ by not including an SD adapter or USB reader. I was impressed by the speeds noted by the user in their PC configuration, but of course I will keep an eye out for better deals and any proven information.

In some scenarios, I've seen a class 2 sandisk perform better than a class 6 dane-elec, but I'm thinking a bit forward about all this ... lookin' to run (or, at minimum, support) app(s) from the card. And, there may be a few more tricks comin' soon.

Thread moved.

OMG

I Just seen the Elocity A10 listed on tiger.
64GB $699
32GB $599
4GB $449 the 16GB not even listed on tiger
WLAN N
Claiming true multi touch this time for A10's
still ships with 2.2 froyo
Looks like the same pointless 1.3mp cam and still front facing(yes I know web cam)
with all the extra space you would think they would switch to full size SD
I truly have nothing against the elocity. I have an A7 with the 1.3 dex mod loving it, but wife wants it so I'm gonna spring for a Enspert Identy tab E201U. Looks promising and very comparable.

The tablet eLocity A10 and prices, and mt discussed already here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=941603

A10 models starting to show up.
I just saw all 3 models of eLocity A10 on Tiger Direct for pre-order today. Amazon has it up but only on adding to wishlist when it becomes available. I am soo tempted right now to take my A7 back and get this A10 for just an extra 100 dollars to spend. I wonder if it is even worth it. If SteamTV can't release a fix for the sdram issue or at least add upgrade to gingerbread, I'm going to A10.

Poradicus said:
I just saw all 3 models of eLocity A10 on Tiger Direct for pre-order today. Amazon has it up but only on adding to wishlist when it becomes available. I am soo tempted right now to take my A7 back and get this A10 for just an extra 100 dollars to spend. I wonder if it is even worth it. If SteamTV can't release a fix for the sdram issue or at least add upgrade to gingerbread, I'm going to A10.
Click to expand...
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What "sdram issue" ?

Sorry meant SD Mirco card where it wouldn't work properly with A7.

Poradicus said:
Sorry meant SD Mirco card where it wouldn't work properly with A7.
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What issue? I don't have any issues with sdcard...

Dexter_nlb said:
this is all a misunderstanding of how tablets are supposed to work, and caused by the fact that android 2.2 is made for a phone with external memory cards, and less to nothing of internal memory.
the current installation where apps are "moved" to internal storage is actually how vendors are trying to implement 2 types of storage.
comparing this to a mobile with just sdcard, and android 2.2 only supporting one storage type, the preferred storage becomes the "internal" and sdcard handling as you notice is now pointing to a location with the internal storage location.
the mountpoint at the internal storage location is planned based on the fact that users coming from an android based mobile knows alot about where to find data, which is in the storage location, so its put as mount at the storage so its easy to access, and not actually any bug at all.
so until better handling is presented (hopefully 3.0) people will continue to think that the handling is wrong or something is not wright here, but it is correct.
your internal storage of "just" 1.5GB is the preferred location, as tablets are not meant to have sdcards as preferred storage, if you chose not to put a sdcard into the tablet. so the choice was easy, use internal storage for android so ppl didnt need to buy additional cards.
but the lack of storage internally is a vendor decision, not a bug or not "the android way" a problem in any way..
imagine, those users without any sdcard, being unable to use the feature of android to a storage, and needed to use data storage for all files, that would look strange, if you didnt have the option available..
it could have been planned differently but vendors (all of the tegra2 vendors) has chosen this path, which could have been done differently but its all relate to apps and how they expect your device to work..
a long explanation, but remember 2.2 is not made for tablets, it made for small devices with external memory cards, which is long overdue and is followed up with the new android 3.0 which hopefully solves your problem.
conclusion,
Nvidia could have chosen a different way of using android, but they're still rather new to the platform and their design is not without problems yet (honeycomb will show that too), so if they used real planning and organized memory and sdcard handling like 2.2 was made for, you would have no problems at all. Remember Nvidia designed it this way, and they are the reason you have problems..Lack of knowledge of design and functionality, like BMW trying to make graphics card for a pc, coming from designing cars, their work would not be in a class like nvidia graphics, but probably ok..but far from good..
-
to answer you last question, usb to pc..
ill figure some idea out on the next update, as the tablet do support host/client usb port setup (recently confirmed), but i think you noticed the tablet don't have a port for connecting to your pc for now..
to enable the usb to pc connectivity you need a special usb cable, and software that changes the usb port mode. which can be solved, but disables the functionality of usb sticks etc, connecting to it.
Click to expand...
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Yet another in a line of many "problems" that could have been solved by reading the information that is already here.

16GB to 32GB Upgrade?

I am picking up a 16GB A500 from Staples today (only $300 w/the coupon, woot!), and would like to upgrade the internal memory to 32GB. I'm certain that the memory is soldered to the board, but am curious if the existing memory requires replacement or if there is an empty location for another 16GB memory chip.
Has anyone tried this, and/or are there any photos of a torn-down A500? TIA for any inputs.

There is no vacant slot for another flash chip. There are plenty of pics of the internals, and even some teardown videos if you care to google.

This like most all imbedded devices is what you have is what you get monotonous mentioned to be updated. So that software major ones willbforce youbto buy a new tablet sooner its the price we paybto have the next best thing

I recommend just putting in a 16GB or even 32GB microsd. They are a little weird the way you access them though. To save you some digging:
Your 16GB internal storage will come up under /sdcard/ while the external card is /mnt/external_sd (or something like that).

So if there isn't an open location on the board, that would require removing the current 16 GB chip and replacing it with a 32GB chip. No big deal.
I've already got a 16GB microSD, but some programs are stubborn about not moving to micro SD. This tab is a replacement for my gTab, I'll be rooting it soon and am not scared of internal upgrades.

ThatGeekGuy said:
So if there isn't an open location on the board, that would require removing the current 16 GB chip and replacing it with a 32GB chip. No big deal.
I've already got a 16GB microSD, but some programs are stubborn about not moving to micro SD. This tab is a replacement for my gTab, I'll be rooting it soon and am not scared of internal upgrades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're confused...
There is 16GB internal AND you can ADD a 16GB memory card which gives you 32GB total. That is not 32GB internal, per se, even though it's all contained within the device physically.
Changing from 16GB to 32GB would require physically tearing apart the A500 then putting in the 32GB chip, which is an on board chip, not a simple micro-SD card.
You could also just add a 32GB micro-SD card and end up with 48GB total.

Guys/gals he seems to be aware about having to tear apart the iconia to add the memory in his first post he states that its soldered and later says hes not scared of internal upgrades
To answer your question from what I have seen you are correct you would have to de-solder and remove the 16gb chip and solder the 32 in its place . you are either very brave or have some good experience lol
let us know how the upgrade goes!

oxbeast1210 said:
Guys/gals he seems to be aware about having to tear apart the iconia to add the memory in his first post he states that its soldered and later says hes not scared of internal upgrades
To answer your question from what I have seen you are correct you would have to de-solder and remove the 16gb chip and solder the 32 in its place . you are either very brave or have some good experience lol
let us know how the upgrade goes!
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Click to collapse
I hear that, the impression that I got was that ThatGeekGuy was ready to dive in head first.
@ThatGeekGuy.. If I had the equipment I'd do exactly what you're trying to do, please let us know if you achieve what you set out to do!

Why not try 64gb?

nice Idea!
good luck
I would think about partitioning the chip and copying the OS onto it beforehand,
after all, even the recovery is on that chip

ehasoon said:
I hear that, the impression that I got was that ThatGeekGuy was ready to dive in head first.
@ThatGeekGuy.. If I had the equipment I'd do exactly what you're trying to do, please let us know if you achieve what you set out to do!
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Click to collapse
I see that in the post as well, but I mean if someone really understands the impact of that then they probably wouldn't be on this forum asking questions about it. They would know that there's not an open slot... maybe that's a bad assumption on my part.
Just seems that the knowledge/skills necessary with replacing the onboard memory did not match the question being asked...

I'm aware that the memory upgrade involves teardown of the unit, and is not a simple plug-in like an SD card. My main curiosity was if it would require simple soldering of an additional chip, or removal and replacement of the existing one. Many boards (mobos, latops, tablets) have upgrade locations on the board layout, and only populate them based on what options are ordered. On my gTablet, the layout was on the board to accomodate a GPS circuit that was never populated. Some enterprising folks here on XDA figured out the components and code required to get it functional.
If it is a remove and replace upgrade, it can definitely be more challenging. As wolfman mentioned, the ROM is in the current chip. Hmmm, more research before jumping off this bridge ....

ThatGeekGuy said:
I'm aware that the memory upgrade involves teardown of the unit, and is not a simple plug-in like an SD card. My main curiosity was if it would require simple soldering of an additional chip, or removal and replacement of the existing one. Many boards (mobos, latops, tablets) have upgrade locations on the board layout, and only populate them based on what options are ordered. On my gTablet, the layout was on the board to accomodate a GPS circuit that was never populated. Some enterprising folks here on XDA figured out the components and code required to get it functional.
If it is a remove and replace upgrade, it can definitely be more challenging. As wolfman mentioned, the ROM is in the current chip. Hmmm, more research before jumping off this bridge ....
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Click to collapse
Good deal! Just wanted to make sure!
best of luck!

ThatGeekGuy said:
I'm aware that the memory upgrade involves teardown of the unit, and is not a simple plug-in like an SD card. My main curiosity was if it would require simple soldering of an additional chip, or removal and replacement of the existing one. Many boards (mobos, latops, tablets) have upgrade locations on the board layout, and only populate them based on what options are ordered. On my gTablet, the layout was on the board to accomodate a GPS circuit that was never populated. Some enterprising folks here on XDA figured out the components and code required to get it functional.
If it is a remove and replace upgrade, it can definitely be more challenging. As wolfman mentioned, the ROM is in the current chip. Hmmm, more research before jumping off this bridge ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ThatGeekGuy, did you go thought with changing out your internal memory? I've been doing alot of research on how to crack the tablet open, swapping out the internal memory chip and adding a SIM card reader.

oxbeast1210 said:
Guys/gals he seems to be aware about having to tear apart the iconia to add the memory in his first post he states that its soldered and later says hes not scared of internal upgrades
To answer your question from what I have seen you are correct you would have to de-solder and remove the 16gb chip and solder the 32 in its place . you are either very brave or have some good experience lol
let us know how the upgrade goes!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He would also figure out how to boot up since his storage is blank
Sent from my ICONIA