Contacting google/building support for ALSO selling unbranded. - Nexus One General

Seems to me like Google could sell both with the carriers in a traditional fashion and also sell unlocked/unbranded phones online. Same as SE selling its X10 via carrier but also selling unbranded in Sony Style. Nokia and others have done this as well.
With this thought in mind I was wandering around Google trying to find a good spot to leave such a suggestion and couldn't find anything which didn't say to me, "message going to don't care and I would be totally wasting my time". So the first question is, where would be the best place to start bending Googles ear? What do you think of finding what seems to be the most likely place and trying to get folks from the various android forums to go there and put in their two cents? While many folks might not have been interested in the N1 that doesn't mean they don't want to see an N2 come along that might be a form factor that suits their needs better. Im spitballing here guys, throw down with your opinions. I say lets be heard!
Those of you who are not getting my concept have no fear, Paul will be along to say it better than I did soon enough.

Google jumped feet first into the the retail business. Before this I don't think they ever sold a tangible product(?) in retail.
From the movements they are making it seems they don't want to be retailers.

I think the biggest problem is having customer support and technical support. Since apple and Sony have their own support departments its easy for them to sell online.

Google jumped in with both feet, true. Technical support has largely been hashed out, lesson learned. I think Google wanted in and I think they still want in. The trick is trying to show them they can have their cake and eat it too. Making the effort costs us nothing, not making the effort makes us the sheep that the carriers bring to the slaughter.

krabman said:
Google jumped in with both feet, true. Technical support has largely been hashed out, lesson learned. I think Google wanted in and I think they still want in. The trick is trying to show them they can have their cake and eat it too. Making the effort costs us nothing, not making the effort makes us the sheep that the carriers bring to the slaughter.
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Click to collapse
How about an online petition and a never ending email campaign to Google pointing them to the petition?

Thats kinda the concept that I am thinking of attn1 but I don't know how to go about it. Google has built a sales apperatus, its built a store front, its built a support mechanism, all we are asking is that they not shelve those tools that are already in place as they venture forth on a new direction. They are paid for, they work, the support themselves. There is no reason I can think of off hand why they cannot do this and several benefits to Google. But first you have to get their ear...

attn1 said:
How about an online petition and a never ending email campaign to Google pointing them to the petition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Start it and it shall be signed.

Technically they have done this before.
The T-Mobile G1 was also sold by Google as the ADP1 (Android Developer Phone 1) and the Magic/myTouch 3G was sold by them as the ADP2. But, you had to register as an Android developer to order one.
Originally I thought the Nexus One was simply going to be the ADP3 with a more open ordering process. The fact that they are handing out free N1s at developer conferences and to their employees indicates it will continue to have that status whether or not it continues to have "direct to consumer sales" status.
Since they still need ways for developers to get unlocked phones for new development they will likely continue to sell the N1 in some capacity even if/when they hand over standard sales to the carriers. It may be that you would need to register as a developer, though, but I doubt they would stop selling it entirely as then the Magic/ADP2 would be the most up to date phone that they provide their developers and that isn't a great situation...

Related

a thread of hope!!!

the end has not come, this community is smart it will find a work around for all of this, i am sure. don't throw out ur g1 or say to hell with google (yet) they have not issued a formal public statement about this yet so be patient and pray and tell Google what they are doing to us all and most of all support our devs we will find a way!!!
Hah, I thought there would be some useful information in this thread. Anywho, Google's already damaged it's reputation, I've already decided I'm no longer supporting their OS. Oh and now I look like a twat for telling everyone how great it is >.<
AdrianK said:
Hah, I thought there would be some useful information in this thread. Anywho, Google's already damaged it's reputation, I've already decided I'm no longer supporting their OS. Oh and now I look like a twat for telling everyone how great it is >.<
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Click to collapse
lol i put in general 1 because that's where it belongs and 2 because i did not want people to think it was something of developmental use sorry about that. and like i said they have not made on official statement yet so say maybe they just wont want anyone to include the apps like the blog post seems to be trying say.
Hope! Only if Google takes the stick out.
Official Google response
HTML:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/note-on-google-apps-for-android.html
the problem from my perspective is that Google has a little known problem of Premature Release, probably in every sense of the term. the Android OS SHOULDN’T have been release as it stood. way too many short comings. so people that needed more phone functionality looked other places. guess what? Cyanogen filled that need. if Google wanted to keep their apps closed source then the Android OS should have stayed in RD for at least another year to make it a more robust OS that could compete with the Win Mo, and iFunk phones. for those of us that jumped on the wagon early, we were willing to wait for the Community to catch it up. now that Google has taken that away from us, i will not only be looking for a replacement to the G1, but will also, be using word of mouth to condemn their product, what they did and what they will probably continue to do. yep, I'm a schmuck for saying all those great things to early - premature release, it's contagious.
i will be looking for a replacement to my G1. funny, I now have a bad taste in my mouth (premature release, haha). any suggestions? Maybe the HTC Touch Pro II. yep, thats right, you heard it here first. i will be sporting one of those other evil imperial phones mentioned earlier. right after i honor my contractual obligation to my cell provider. BTW, shouldn't paying for the device, cell connectivity, and data plans in and of itself license the apps on the device? it came pre-bundled with those apps when I took it out of the package. another instance of Corporate America fleecing the American middle class!
GOOGLE - wanna see market share run out the door? keep doing what you are doing. keep releasing inferior products to the public, see how that goes.
this world is going to crap! AIG, Blackwater, Iraq, Enron, WorldComm, George W. Bush President for 8 years, Mike Vick able to play in the NFL, Google releases an Open Source OS and then closes it??? WTF? Time for a good ole rebellion against the Man and the Machine. Let your voice be heard!!!
I’m done.!
Frogzilla said:
Official Google response
HTML:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/note-on-google-apps-for-android.html
the problem from my perspective is that Google has a little known problem of Premature Release, probably in every sense of the term. the Android OS SHOULDN’T have been release as it stood. way too many short comings. so people that needed more phone functionality looked other places. guess what? Cyanogen filled that need. if Google wanted to keep their apps closed source then the Android OS should have stayed in RD for at least another year to make it a more robust OS that could compete with the Win Mo, and iFunk phones. for those of us that jumped on the wagon early, we were willing to wait for the Community to catch it up. now that Google has taken that away from us, i will not only be looking for a replacement to the G1, but will also, be using word of mouth to condemn their product, what they did and what they will probably continue to do. yep, I'm a schmuck for saying all those great things to early - premature release, it's contagious.
i will be looking for a replacement to my G1. funny, I now have a bad taste in my mouth (premature release, haha). any suggestions? Maybe the HTC Touch Pro II. yep, thats right, you heard it here first. i will be sporting one of those other evil imperial phones mentioned earlier. right after i honor my contractual obligation to my cell provider. BTW, shouldn't paying for the device, cell connectivity, and data plans in and of itself license the apps on the device? it came pre-bundled with those apps when I took it out of the package. another instance of Corporate America fleecing the American middle class!
GOOGLE - wanna see market share run out the door? keep doing what you are doing. keep releasing inferior products to the public, see how that goes.
this world is going to crap! AIG, Blackwater, Iraq, Enron, WorldComm, George W. Bush President for 8 years, Mike Vick able to play in the NFL, Google releases an Open Source OS and then closes it??? WTF? Time for a good ole rebellion against the Man and the Machine. Let your voice be heard!!!
I’m done.!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I was also telling all my iFriends how great android was, as the previous iPhone user they're going to laugh in my face *sigh*
Time for an eBay listing :-(
Frogzilla said:
Official Google response
HTML:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/note-on-google-apps-for-android.html
the problem from my perspective is that Google has a little known problem of Premature Release, probably in every sense of the term. the Android OS SHOULDN’T have been release as it stood. way too many short comings. so people that needed more phone functionality looked other places. guess what? Cyanogen filled that need. if Google wanted to keep their apps closed source then the Android OS should have stayed in RD for at least another year to make it a more robust OS that could compete with the Win Mo, and iFunk phones. for those of us that jumped on the wagon early, we were willing to wait for the Community to catch it up. now that Google has taken that away from us, i will not only be looking for a replacement to the G1, but will also, be using word of mouth to condemn their product, what they did and what they will probably continue to do. yep, I'm a schmuck for saying all those great things to early - premature release, it's contagious.
i will be looking for a replacement to my G1. funny, I now have a bad taste in my mouth (premature release, haha). any suggestions? Maybe the HTC Touch Pro II. yep, thats right, you heard it here first. i will be sporting one of those other evil imperial phones mentioned earlier. right after i honor my contractual obligation to my cell provider. BTW, shouldn't paying for the device, cell connectivity, and data plans in and of itself license the apps on the device? it came pre-bundled with those apps when I took it out of the package. another instance of Corporate America fleecing the American middle class!
GOOGLE - wanna see market share run out the door? keep doing what you are doing. keep releasing inferior products to the public, see how that goes.
this world is going to crap! AIG, Blackwater, Iraq, Enron, WorldComm, George W. Bush President for 8 years, Mike Vick able to play in the NFL, Google releases an Open Source OS and then closes it??? WTF? Time for a good ole rebellion against the Man and the Machine. Let your voice be heard!!!
I’m done.!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the moment i lose hope ill go underground and stating making making bombs for the rebellion.jk but seriously we have nothing more than a vague blog post and are we just kind of reading into and thinking they are going to start being heavy handed like the others. but we don't know for sure yet so like i said just wait before we all start jumping ship.
Some people seem to be mistaken. Android, although owned by Google, are not one in the same. Android is open source, not googles apps. I agree it sucks and Android is almost useless without google apps, but you can't really hate Android for what their parent company is doing. I am sure we will figure something out.
DISTRIBUTING google apps is illegal. When we purchased our device we also bought the right to USE the non-open apps. NOT the right to distribute them. So it is NOT illegal to make "roms" for personaly use right? So if rom developers made roms for "personal use" and someone happened to get a hold of the rom and made a torrent, then the developer would not be in the wrong correct?
CBowley said:
Some people seem to be mistaken. Android, although owned by Google, are not one in the same. Android is open source, not googles apps. I agree it sucks and Android is almost useless without google apps, but you can't really hate Android for what their parent company is doing. I am sure we will figure something out.
DISTRIBUTING google apps is illegal. When we purchased our device we also bought the right to USE the non-open apps. NOT the right to distribute them. So it is NOT illegal to make "roms" for personaly use right? So if rom developers made roms for "personal use" and someone happened to get a hold of the rom and made a torrent, then the developer would not be in the wrong correct?
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Click to collapse
or if just made backups or alternatives then i think google will honestly will leave us be. as long we are no trying to get leaked apps left and right its all the leaked builds and apps that are pissing them off. if was htc i would be pissed about all the hero roms being about long before the phone was available its like posting warzs almost.
There are already far too many threads on this subject that I've left open. Please keep discussion in those threads. Thanks!

Media Jackassishness re: Google Giving Up On 'Revolutionary' Android Sales Model?

Guys like this bug me. If they turned a glass of milk upside down, they'd lack the analytical skills required to figure out how milk got on the floor. Yet here is another such columnist on InformationWeek running his mouth like a whale scooping up plankton.
Here's the article, which is as misleading as any I've seen in a while:
Google Giving Up On 'Revolutionary' Android Sales Model?
I'd set him straight but I am fresh out of the crayons required to draw him an appropriate picture.
I read that earlier but I must have missed something because I don't see why the guy is a jackass. It seems to me like he is suggesting some evidence that points to Google no longer exclusively selling their phone. But at the end he theorized that nothing would change and Google would maintain its strategy. Please correct me if I'm wrong though as I am not a strong reader and I only briefly read it right before class...
I too don't see why he is a jackass?
If the Nexus One was sold in stores, it would be a great thing. There's a lot of people who just will not buy a phone they can't see in person. Even I was skeptical at first, and I'm sure a lot of us were.
Either way, it would be a great thing if N1's started popping up in stores. Sales would go through the roof. The inability for people to see it in person is the ONLY reason the phone hasn't sold over a million.
Personally I think Google did it all wrong. The ONLY reason for an online store is to be able to sell the phone to ANYONE in the world. Making a phone online only for the USA only was completely idiotic.
They should have picked the most popular frequency on the GLOBE and sold that to whoever the hell wanted it world-wide.
.
I agree, no reason to call him a jackass. He did however make the mistake of saying that the verizon nexus one was the Incredible. I guess he should have known better than to make that mistake, but I don't see why the OP is so angry lol.
I have my news widget picking up "Android" and "Nexus One" tags..
All I have to say is Im absolutely amazed at the sheer number of articles with misleading headlines that reveal absolutely no information whatsoever.
This article; as useless as it is...is nobel prize worthy compared to whats out there.
Paul22000 said:
Personally I think Google did it all wrong. The ONLY reason for an online store is to be able to sell the phone to ANYONE in the world. Making a phone online only for the USA only was completely idiotic.
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Click to collapse
And again I have to ask this. UK, Hongkong and Singapore does not qualify under " other countries" huh? Or is the world just made of the US?
Granted not everyone in the world can order it online, but please please get your facts right before sprouting "US Only" comments.
xManMythLegend said:
All I have to say is Im absolutely amazed at the sheer number of articles with misleading headlines that reveal absolutely no information whatsoever.
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Click to collapse
And that is exactly what makes this kind of behavior jaskass-ish.
There are a good reasons Google did not make the the N1 available in stores.
They wanted an unbranded, pure Android phone available, and the only way to do that was do sell it themselves. A phone with the same specification, same feature set and close to the same experience as possible, regardless of wireless service provider. Where wireless standards are the same regardless of carrier, they wanted a phone that the user could use regardless of what carrier he chose to use, allowing him to negotiate the best deal. Maybe this isn't such a great thing in the US, but it is to many places in the rest of the world. Ask a Canadian about the flexibility of being able to use an unsubsidized N1 on his/her choice of Rogers, Telus or Bell.
If you wonder why Google thinks this is important, look at every other Android phone on the market - even others made by HTC and marketed by carriers. UIs "updated", features missing, new ones locked in. When they are done with all of these changes, they hardly resemble the N1.
The best example of the worst example of Android is the Backflip, a unit which Motorola stuffed on Motoblur, and AT&T neutered further by locking in it's own applications in place of arguably better counterparts supplied by default in Android. It was introduced with Android 1.5 after Android 2.1 had already rolled out. These things are a big deal because now instead of free GPS, you get to pay a subscription fee for a carrier branded GPS if you want it. Instead of integrated Google services, you get something else. We can go around all day long about what UI is better, but the bottom line is that we can say without judgement that HTC Sense and Motoblur do not represent the default Android UI.
The Nexus One remains the lone current quintessential example of what Android really is. Google needs that more than it needs a sales leader, and this is what analysts like that don't get because they choose to remain ignorant about why Android is different, why they think the Nexus One is a failure, and why they think Google must be ready to pull the plug. No facts, misinformation and misdirection and a general lack of understanding of the subject matter is what characterizes jackass-ish behavior whenever a columnist just poops out a column such as that.
Not every success can be characterized by sheer sales volume. Even HTC understood that as their Chief declared the Nexus One a success.
musashiken said:
And again I have to ask this. UK, Hongkong and Singapore does not qualify under " other countries" huh? Or is the world just made of the US?
Granted not everyone in the world can order it online, but please please get your facts right before sprouting "US Only" comments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is 4 countries the ENTIRE world?
And the official www.google.com/phone listed US only at launch.
Paul22000 said:
How is 4 countries the ENTIRE world?
And the official www.google.com/phone listed US only at launch.
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Click to collapse
I DID not say anything about the ENTIRE World. YOU were going on about selling one phone ONLY to the US. And where in www.google.com/phone states that US is the only country??
I go order the phone without a plan and I get to choose 4 countries as delivery destination. How is that only US? Even articles during launch time mentioned the 4 countries.
And for your information, I'm not in the USA and I got my phone off that site the legal way straight to my country without going through any hoops.
musashiken said:
I DID not say anything about the ENTIRE World. YOU were going on about selling one phone ONLY to the US. And where in www.google.com/phone states that US is the only country??
I go order the phone without a plan and I get to choose 4 countries as delivery destination. How is that only US? Even articles during launch time mentioned the 4 countries.
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Click to collapse
His original point was that the phone would have sold much better if Google made it available globally. They didn't, and greater availability would have meant greater numbers. That's a fact. I don't understand the need to argue the point, even though part of my point was that sheer numbers don't seem to be Google's motivation or their measure of success.
I am glad you got your N1 through their website. I hope you're happy with it.
And my point is that he shouldn't just say it's only for the USA. Some people get touchy on that, you know like "hey there are other countries in the world you know, even small dots on the map. Stop that America-is-big-so-no-need-to-mention-others ****". He could have just said "selling a phone only to a mere 4 countries in the world??? OMGWTFISTHIS****" And I would have just agreed wholeheartedly.
musashiken said:
And my point is that he shouldn't just say it's only for the USA. Some people get touchy on that, you know like "hey there are other countries in the world you know, even small dots on the map. Stop that America-is-big-so-no-need-to-mention-others ****". He could have just said "selling a phone only to a mere 4 countries in the world??? OMGWTFISTHIS****" And I would have just agreed wholeheartedly.
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Click to collapse
He was being critical of their distribution, saying it should have been sold globally with the most popular global frequencies. He was mindful of the rest of the world. If he misspoke, it was not because he didn't think they rest of the world mattered - quite the contrary, it was just the opposite.
The fact that the N1 was only subsidized (and still is) by T-Mobile in the US makes it seem like Google's focus for distribution is only on a small part of the US market, an approach which he is very obviously critical of. He's on your side, so I still don't get the purpose of the argument, even if he was wrong about where it was initially available. Ask Canadian Telus and Bell customers how they felt about the confusion of the Google's announcement regarding the availability of the model compatible with AT&T and Roger's 3G networks. I am sorry if you feel like you're treated like a small dot on the map, but picking fights isn't a good way to get noticed, especially when the guy you're picking on is on your side.
xManMythLegend said:
I have my news widget picking up "Android" and "Nexus One" tags..
All I have to say is Im absolutely amazed at the sheer number of articles with misleading headlines that reveal absolutely no information whatsoever.
This article; as useless as it is...is nobel prize worthy compared to whats out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.cracked.com/article_18458_6-subtle-ways-news-media-disguises-bull****-as-fact.html
All I gotta say lol
Worldwide release would be nice, but google cant*yet-> too many features dont work outside the US (maps, voice,.....)
McFroger3 said:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18458_6-subtle-ways-news-media-disguises-bull****-as-fact.html
All I gotta say lol
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Click to collapse
He makes some good points, but generally I give any author the benefit of the doubt until I *know* he's talking out his arse. I am sure I miss a lot of "BS" calls because I don't know the subject written about any better than the author. A lot of those points are just reflective of common bad journalism practices. Good, honest, neutral journalism is getting harder to find every day, and even hard news seems to be wrapped up agenda driven entertainment news format.
This is partly our fault for passively putting up with it. Image what would happen if every time an author was full of it, readers who really knew better exposed the author for the BS artist he was - with cold, hard, irrefutable facts and not just emotional reaction.
rori1 said:
Worldwide release would be nice, but google cant*yet-> too many features dont work outside the US (maps, voice,.....)
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Click to collapse
Ah, I didn't even think of that. I am sure some disclaimer about those features up front could remedy that situation. It could still be a legal nightmare though.
attn1 said:
He was being critical of their distribution, saying it should have been sold globally with the most popular global frequencies. He was mindful of the rest of the world. If he misspoke, it was not because he didn't think they rest of the world mattered - quite the contrary, it was just the opposite.
The fact that the N1 was only subsidized (and still is) by T-Mobile in the US makes it seem like Google's focus for distribution is only on a small part of the US market, an approach which he is very obviously critical of. He's on your side, so I still don't get the purpose of the argument, even if he was wrong about where it was initially available. Ask Canadian Telus and Bell customers how they felt about the confusion of the Google's announcement regarding the availability of the model compatible with AT&T and Roger's 3G networks. I am sorry if you feel like you're treated like a small dot on the map, but picking fights isn't a good way to get noticed, especially when the guy you're picking on is on your side.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sheesh, fine my bad. I wasn't trying to be noticed, I wasn't trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to correct a little point made by someone and I wasn't even refuting the gist of his point and this is what I get. He couldn't just reply in the first place with something like "yeah whatever, u get my point right?" and proceeds to defend his "only-USA" statement.
In anycase, I'm all for Google's original sale model to just launch it online. Even though its main focus is on USA. It was mentioned somewhere it's just a test case or something for Google to gauge the market response. So as long they do something about the global market in the near future.
musashiken said:
Sheesh, fine my bad. I wasn't trying to be noticed, I wasn't trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to correct a little point made by someone and I wasn't even refuting the gist of his point and this is what I get. He couldn't just reply in the first place with something like "yeah whatever, u get my point right?" and proceeds to defend his "only-USA" statement.
In anycase, I'm all for Google's original sale model to just launch it online. Even though its main focus is on USA. It was mentioned somewhere it's just a test case or something for Google to gauge the market response. So as long they do something about the global market in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it appears that we really are on the same page and in agreement. I hope they are ready to move full on to the global market soon.
To Paul's other point, I wish there was a way for them to sell from some other retail outlet without compromising the phone with crappy branding. But without subsidy from a carrier, it could be a very difficult sell and quantities might not make it attractive to retailers. I am sure Google has examined this possibility very carefully, and perhaps it is something that could work where handsets are not commonly subsidized (Not in the US).
Well the thing about the global scene is that different countries have different legal systems so perhaps Google is having a slight problem overcoming those. I suppose a good way to start is to strengthen the presence of Google branch offices in the various countries.
It is true I am having some gripes with the lack of certain "advertised" features using N1 in my country. Like no navigation and access to paid apps. Of course all these can be remedied now through rooting and custom roms but that kinda beats the whole purpose.
I have to admit that I bought N1 due to its unique factor. ie. you are just one in a hundred to get it online. Having Google give up their model and start selling the N1 like a normal phone kinda takes out the unique branding of it.
musashiken said:
I have to admit that I bought N1 due to its unique factor. ie. you are just one in a hundred to get it online. Having Google give up their model and start selling the N1 like a normal phone kinda takes out the unique branding of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is kind of nice, but I'd like to see Android run the competing mobile phone OS's right into the ground.
It would be a win for open source software, for Linux and for the consumers. The only losers would be the greedy corps trying to bend us over at every turn to grab more money. Apple and Microsoft for software, and wireless carriers for "services" like navigation programs for GPS and SMS text messaging - when you're more than likely already paying more than a fair amount for the data you're using.
How many people know that you can send and receive free SMS text (no MMS) with Google Voice without paying for MMS in addition to data? And where you have maps, the Android 2.x GPS navigation works without a GPS navigation service subscription? Our phones can demonstrate that. Over a couple of years, all that adds up to a pretty healthy phone subsidy from where I sit.

The Class Action is great, what else can we do?

As someone else said, imagine what would happen if the iPhone's GPS didnt work, so why is Android held to a lower standard? Why are we supposed to accept whatever we are given, regardless of what we are promised? The SGS and iPhone 4 cost about the same amount, but we, as Android owners are supposed to just be grateful for anything that we get even when its less than promised?Samsung is already "rumored" to be planning our phone's successor. Thats bull****, we dont deserve to be treated like this. I love the Class Action Suit, but does anyone have any other creative ideas to not only help out current SGS owners but also ruin possible SGS 4G prospects? Samsung needs to be taught that we wont just be grateful for whatever we get, we demand what we are promised, we demand what we pay for; this is only reasonable.
A company should at least have some concern for their consumers, even if its barely recognizable. Samsung left us with a broken device we paid handsomely for, they have 0 concern for us. So I pray to whoever is listening up there that the SGS 4G fails miserably. If I knew how, Id make and circulate a Facebook page with just a couple of sentences outlining the case against Samsung. Even those who dont know much about Android would pay attention to a facebook page saying Samsung has ripped off SGS consumers, so avoid any Samsung phone at all costs, there are plenty of great alternatives. Maybe there is a more effective avenue, maybe we could even pursue multiple avenues. The goal is to bring attention to the shortcomings of the SGS we currently have, it deserves Samsung's attention. And now is the time, while the class action is getting attention, lets pile it on. Im happy to do what I can, im just not sure what to do. Any ideas?
kinda like the facebook page idea. I hate that Samsung doent give a **** about selling us a broken phone, even if they said they were really sorry itd be ok if they didnt fix it. Not only are they pricks, they're dicks too.
Well, debut day of Vibrant 4G or Successor is coming up. There will be people showing up to buy them. They will be watching its debut day. There will also be press and reviewers about its debut. Thus, if you have a crew of buddies willing to help you out in boycotting their Vibrant 4G or any of the coming Galaxy S product with picket signs and banners for in front of the local stores with drums and horns. Have your buddies call up local news and it will make it to some news since people will wonder what is going on... Resist if they give you and your buddies Vibrant 4G to shut you guys up. Too bad we just missed the CES. With all those press there, that would have been perfect! We need to organize into big group to do this more effectively even if lawsuit takes forever.
This will get them to know how angry we are about this "Froyogate"
Also, maybe somebody needs to make a boycott app for ALL Galaxy S product.
Report our problems on site like RipOffReport.com, scam.com, ScamBusters.org
Give the bad review that you think the product deserve on sites like amazon epinion, pricegrabber, cnet, etc.
http://www.examiner.com/technology-in-national/samsung-responds-to-froyogate-accusations
Corporations want to maximize their profits, both for themselves and their shareholders. Thus, this shouldn't come as a surprise.
A tipster has come forward and said that Samsung is holding back the Android 2.2 (Froyo) update from the T-Mobile Vibrant (Samsung Galaxy S variant) because they are afraid that such an update will impact sales of their upcoming Samsung Vibrant 4G Plus.
Reportedly, the new device is little different than the original Vibrant. In addition to the original Vibrant, the Vibrant 4G Plus has a front-facing camera, Android 2.2, and HSDPA+ 21 support.
Here's what the tipster said:
Some disturbing things have happened the last week or so concerning our “Vibrant”. Samsung has NOT allowed us to push the update OTA for 2.2 because they feel it will decrease the value of the upcoming Vibrant4G +. While from a marketing aspect i totally understand, as the Vibrant 4G is what the original Vibrant should have been in the 1st place. But to shun off and bold face lie to customers is NOT what T-Mobile is about.
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Click to collapse
Furthermore, if Froyo works in "Vibrant 4G" - another product of Vibrant, this means it should be already for distribution for the Vibrant 3G version with minor changes.
I like the sound of all of this. I can't stand the idea that samsung suffers no repercussions for selling so many broken phones. Froyo or no froyo, the phones gps is broken, samsung shouldn't have the option to not fix it, it's INSANE
I thought that if you demonstrate to T-Mobile that the official Samsung GPS Tool fails, they would consider it defective and send for a replacement. Don't crucify me if I'm wrong, I haven't dealt with either companies.
My Samsung Vibrant came hardware locked, with faulty GPS. Samsung told me it wasn't there problem (no warranty because I brought it into Canada without an "international warranty"). Have I thought about a class action suit? Nope. I dunno, maybe it's because I'm Canadian or something, but I've just tried to fix my own problems. It's not the first product that's let me down, and I don't expect some lawyer to make it all better. Eventually the awesome people on this forum came up with a fix for the hardware lock. Then they brewed up roms based on the 2.2 leaks. Then a hardware GPS fix, combined with new software updates and now my GPS locks on in under 15s.
So what have I learned from all of this? I won't be purchasing a Samsung phone again. They've lost a customer. I vote with my wallet, not by signing some e-petition, or joining a Facebook group.
Do you really think a class action would change anything? Even if you are successful, you'll probably just get a credit towards your next Samsung purchase, or a refund on the cost of the GPS chip.
Let them know how you feel, and that you won't purchase any of their products in the future, and will be advising friends/family to do the same. kobesabi has outlined some great ways to let them know.
OP, check out the hashtag thread. If everyone screams the same thing our voice is louder.
cwoodworth said:
I thought that if you demonstrate to T-Mobile that the official Samsung GPS Tool fails, they would consider it defective and send for a replacement. Don't crucify me if I'm wrong, I haven't dealt with either companies.
My Samsung Vibrant came hardware locked, with faulty GPS. Samsung told me it wasn't there problem (no warranty because I brought it into Canada without an "international warranty"). Have I thought about a class action suit? Nope. I dunno, maybe it's because I'm Canadian or something, but I've just tried to fix my own problems. It's not the first product that's let me down, and I don't expect some lawyer to make it all better. Eventually the awesome people on this forum came up with a fix for the hardware lock. Then they brewed up roms based on the 2.2 leaks. Then a hardware GPS fix, combined with new software updates and now my GPS locks on in under 15s.
So what have I learned from all of this? I won't be purchasing a Samsung phone again. They've lost a customer. I vote with my wallet, not by signing some e-petition, or joining a Facebook group.
Do you really think a class action would change anything? Even if you are successful, you'll probably just get a credit towards your next Samsung purchase, or a refund on the cost of the GPS chip.
Let them know how you feel, and that you won't purchase any of their products in the future, and will be advising friends/family to do the same. kobesabi has outlined some great ways to let them know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your feelings. And I think most people in here is of the mindset that we can fix our phones better than Samsung. What is going on here is a movement towards holding Samsung to their promises. They are in the OHA and therefor are legally bound to release the Source Code for the Vibrant. The second thing is that they promised multiple times throughout the last year that they would release Froyo to the US Galaxy S phones, and they didn't. If you vote by your wallet that is OK. How much do you spend on buying a new phone? With the current pricing around $500 without contract. If one person doesn't give Samsung their $500, Samsung doesn't care. If all the people on XDA doesn't give them $500, Samsung still won't care. However if we can get enough people to realize that Samsung is not a good company to buy from as they have TERRIBLE software support for their phones, if we could get 100,000 people at first, that is $50 million, which is still just a drop in the bucket for them, but that is surely more painful than $500. This is to try to make Samsung take responsibility for their products.
Agreed, Samsung should be held to the agreements made regarding their source code. I also agree that people should be informed Samsung as a company, and their poor customer relation choices.
I just think a Class Action is the wrong way to do it
kobesabi said:
Well, debut day of Vibrant 4G or Successor is coming up. ... Resist if they give you and your buddies Vibrant 4G to shut you guys up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Riiiiiight...I promise I will do that!
AndroidPerson said:
As someone else said, imagine what would happen if the iPhone's GPS didnt work, so why is Android held to a lower standard? Why are we supposed to accept whatever we are given, regardless of what we are promised? The SGS and iPhone 4 cost about the same amount, but we, as Android owners are supposed to just be grateful for anything that we get even when its less than promised?Samsung is already "rumored" to be planning our phone's successor. Thats bull****, we dont deserve to be treated like this. I love the Class Action Suit, but does anyone have any other creative ideas to not only help out current SGS owners but also ruin possible SGS 4G prospects? Samsung needs to be taught that we wont just be grateful for whatever we get, we demand what we are promised, we demand what we pay for; this is only reasonable.
A company should at least have some concern for their consumers, even if its barely recognizable. Samsung left us with a broken device we paid handsomely for, they have 0 concern for us. So I pray to whoever is listening up there that the SGS 4G fails miserably. If I knew how, Id make and circulate a Facebook page with just a couple of sentences outlining the case against Samsung. Even those who dont know much about Android would pay attention to a facebook page saying Samsung has ripped off SGS consumers, so avoid any Samsung phone at all costs, there are plenty of great alternatives. Maybe there is a more effective avenue, maybe we could even pursue multiple avenues. The goal is to bring attention to the shortcomings of the SGS we currently have, it deserves Samsung's attention. And now is the time, while the class action is getting attention, lets pile it on. Im happy to do what I can, im just not sure what to do. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Send me all your grievances
[email protected]
Copy and paste them on RipoffReport
Samsung Forums
Facebook
Twitter #NeverAgain
Everywhere!!!!!!
Thanks for all the Support
BOYCOTT THE SAMSUNG 4G
I made a theme song
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_6815946
(To be honest I would have made this song at least a month ago before all of this but I was real busy all through December)
Here's one more thing we can do:
Post bad reviews of Samsung Galaxy phones on all online retailer web sites that sell them. Got an Amazon account? Post feedback there and drive this phone's rating down it gets Samsung's attention and warns potential buyers about buying a product that they will most likely be dissatisfied with once they realize that GPS is marginally functional and that it's running now outdated version of Android with no update in sight. Do the same on Tiger Direct, NewEgg and whoever else sells this phone.
Collectively we can definitely make Samsung take notice.
Lol the iphones attenna doesn't work.... no one sued over that
Although im all for the law suit
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
bbm21 said:
Lol the iphones attenna doesn't work.... no one sued over that
Although im all for the law suit
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me google that for you..what do you know...multiple lawsuits filed regarding antenna gate.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...on-suits-filed-over-iphone-4-antenna-flaw.ars
Also, people can also get creative on Youtube. Or something like MicBeast...the more sabateurs try to oppose him, the more view counts it gets and the more people pay attention to it.
kobesabi said:
Also, people can also get creative on Youtube. Or something like MicBeast...the more sabateurs try to oppose him, the more view counts it gets and the more people pay attention to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_6834100
I will be working on a YouTube video
exactly what kobesabi said
don't be fooled by the saboteurs
they had my thread closed
and I will not respond to any more of their BS
I am still going through with this class action
My original thread regarding the CA had nothing to do with this song
This came out of me complaining to people
about the constant issues I've had with my Vibrant
They would say "just shut up and make a song about it"
So I finally did
Agent Jones is one of those users that joined this forum for the sole intent and purpose of having my thread closed, and possibly having me banned from this forum. These are his posts see for yourself
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=56507152
please join me in having saboteurs like him banned from this forum
people like him
whose sole purpose is to silence anyone who opposes their best interest
have no place in any public forum
Acknowledgment & Fax Cover sheet to submit additional information.
Filling for: ***** has been received by the FCC. Thanks for your information. When inquiring about your complaint, be sure to reference this number: 11-C00273373 and, be sure to mention that you filed this complaint over the internet.
I have just joined the Facebook group NeverAgainSamsung: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_119358658137499
C'mon!
AndroidPerson said:
As someone else said, imagine what would happen if the iPhone's GPS didnt work, so why is Android held to a lower standard? Why are we supposed to accept whatever we are given, regardless of what we are promised? The SGS and iPhone 4 cost about the same amount, but we, as Android owners are supposed to just be grateful for anything that we get even when its less than promised?Samsung is already "rumored" to be planning our phone's successor. Thats bull****, we dont deserve to be treated like this. I love the Class Action Suit, but does anyone have any other creative ideas to not only help out current SGS owners but also ruin possible SGS 4G prospects? Samsung needs to be taught that we wont just be grateful for whatever we get, we demand what we are promised, we demand what we pay for; this is only reasonable.
A company should at least have some concern for their consumers, even if its barely recognizable. Samsung left us with a broken device we paid handsomely for, they have 0 concern for us. So I pray to whoever is listening up there that the SGS 4G fails miserably. If I knew how, Id make and circulate a Facebook page with just a couple of sentences outlining the case against Samsung. Even those who dont know much about Android would pay attention to a facebook page saying Samsung has ripped off SGS consumers, so avoid any Samsung phone at all costs, there are plenty of great alternatives. Maybe there is a more effective avenue, maybe we could even pursue multiple avenues. The goal is to bring attention to the shortcomings of the SGS we currently have, it deserves Samsung's attention. And now is the time, while the class action is getting attention, lets pile it on. Im happy to do what I can, im just not sure what to do. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love the facebook idea, we can have a vote "buy from samsung again, yes/no"...set that up and lets start a movement and make other consumers aware of what samsung had done.
Lot of good ideas here, maybe op can update with an organized list. I registered at scam and tipoff report so I'll start or add to samsung complaints, and th facebook thing sounds great. Let's keep it up
We egg sammys ceo house all day long )
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Originally Posted by p3droid

This was posted by p3droid on mydroidworld - many of us know him, or have at least heard of him. He knows what hes talking about, and this info is somewhat disturbing. This is just a copy/paste of his OP.
Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Background
​I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls​
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Motorola[/FONT][/FONT] working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Google[/FONT][/FONT] through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls​
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]HTC [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]devices[/FONT][/FONT])
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.​I think I posted my first angry message and [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]tweet[/FONT][/FONT] about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]program[/FONT][/FONT] that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.​The Rubber Meets the Road​
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.​3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]applications[/FONT][/FONT] can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).​The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers. "
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Just thought of a potential solution. We could have someone develop a program which accepts these apps and finds whatever sort of signature the carriers are checking for. It can keep it on our phone and ping back to the carriers when queried.
Just a rough idea. But I know there are people far more intelligent than me that can get this done. Or perhaps something more ingenious. I have faith. It will be a nuisance but if we support our strongest devs we will get through this until the carriers piss the **** off.
Isn't Google throwing out the baby with the bathwater here? If the main objective of the carriers is to prevent unauthorized tethering, isn't there a way to do that without blocking root access?
bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my gut reaction as well. However...... Having spoken with a friend and engineer in the industry (I cannot say her name so take this quote with as much salt as needed) it was explained to me like this.
" Most cell carrier's infastructure are having a tough time dealing with the current customer load as it is. In fact, if you look at events where the influx of people can shut down networks such as AT&T ( the South by South West music fest in Austin TX for example) the cell carries are currently not too worried about losing, what they believe to be, a few customers.
Especially when you figure in the fact that you modding your phone and placing it on thier network is looked upon as you violating their contract. And as it was YOU who violated the contract in thier eyes, the cell carrier can continue charging you for your contract as well as making you purchase an "approved replacement handset"
I am not sure if this is truly the outlook of the carriers or simply the way one employee understands the situation to be......but it wouldnt surprise me if this was exactly how the dev community was viewed by them.
BUT, being around and playing with my phones for a few years now has taught me one thing. There are people on these forums with everybit the brains and know-how as the engineers the carriers employ. And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
bongd said:
**** the carriers. There will be a revolt. There are enough intelligent people in our community to stop this from happening. I went with the Android OS because Apple is a POS and RIM just doesn't offer what I need in a smart phone. The carriers can try doing what they want but there will be an ugly battle.
Despite this being extremely upsetting news, thanks for sharing it. I'm hoping for the best and not going down without a fight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
cegna09 said:
responses like this make me laugh. A revolt? What, more petitions, more rants on forums? This is a momentum shift that the end user can't do much about. There is pressure from a bunch of angles to start locking down certain aspects of android. If you read the whole post you'd notice the part about how a bunch of these security measures are being baked into android at the google level. This is not just verizon making demands of their phone makers.
and as intelligent as some devs are here, we're going to see their advances slowing way down. People are so hopeful that the devs will crack the bootloader (even though they've driven most of them away), yet they ignore the fact that the droidX has been locked down since release, and little to no progress has been made there. (i'm well aware they are slightly different, so don't bring it up). Even look what they did with the last update to the atrix, they blocked known root methods. No matter what the devs manage to do, teh makers have teams of people that just have to look at the exploits, and close them up.
i'm not saying i agree with the way things are going, i'm just trying to remain focused on the facts and be realistic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
Okay tracking rooted users is new to me. but I thought the rest was normal procedure?
...Root exploit>carrier update (patches root)>new root exploit>new carrier update (patches new root)>newest root exploit...
How is the op any different than current procedure.? Is it just the addition of carriers tracking rooted users that makes this post notable? Because it seems like scaremongering to me. Should I really be that concerned? I already knew att doesn't like me to tether without a plan, and will do what it can to stop me. I dont have any more reason to believe att will stop service to my phone now than before I read this post.
Basically what started all this guys, was theft of services (free tethering) Everyone who has used the free tethering 'hacks' are largely responsible for this movement. Had everyone modded their phones responsibly, and not stolen services from the carriers because they thought they 'had that right' then this would probably not be happening to the extent that it is. I, for one, do not nor have i ever used a free tethering hack. I have unlimited data and use that freely on my phone. I use my pc for web browsing when i have a lot to do online. Below is a quote from a friend of mine on the Atrixforums.com site that is a very good view and quite accurate interpretation of whats happening.
das8nt said:
Yeah, I always knew something like this was going to come down the pipe... it was only a matter of time.
The third part, The Rubber Meets the Road, has been added. I've had some more time to think about this, and I've come to realize a few things. The following is my opinion on the whole subject. It might not be a very popular one, and posting it is not meant to start a large debate or anything, I just wanted to express my feeling on the matter. Please do not take offense to any of the points I'm trying to make; hopefully some of you know me well enough so far to know that I don't mean offense to anyone.
Opinion starts here...
They're right. The manufacturers, the carriers... they're right. We may not like it, but in the end they both have the full say in what happens. I'll give a few examples in a moment as to why I see it this way, but first I need to let you know where I'm coming from. I have a rooted phone; it's not my first rooted phone. I have tethered; though not often or very much at all, but I have tethered without a tethering plan on my account. I have installed ROMs, custom kernels, MODs, hacks... you name it, I've done it. I enjoy it if only because I can. Did I do it because it was needed? In some circumstances, I might argue, "yes;" in others, not in the slightest... it was just fun. The point to this being is that I have done most of everything that is being discussed in the Food For Thought post; and I've done it because I wanted to.
That brings me to a first example. You buy a car; a $20k car at that. Say you pay cash for it; it's yours. You don't even have to have full coverage insurance on it if you don't want to (some states.) You bought it as you daily driver, but you want to make some mods to it: aftermarket exhaust, lowering kit, cool-air intake.... and nitrous. You can do all of those things.; there's no one stopping you. What you can't do though, is maintain a factory warranty on your new car if you install those mods. When you alter the build of the car you are losing your right to claim that that car was manufactured improperly since it's no longer in the same state in which it was delivered to you. No big deal, right? Nothing ever goes wrong until the warranty expires anyway, we all know that. So, you take it to a drag track to see what it can do; how fast can it go? How quick can it hit the quarter mile line? You want to be know as the fastest, so you don't hold back... you kick in the nitrous.... but there's a problem. You didn't realize that the car was not meant to take that kind of load the way it was built. You blow your engine. Is the dealership or manufacturer going to warranty that engine? Would you really expect them to?
Second example. The same car you purchased, before you ever take it to the track, you want to drive it.... I mean really drive it; feel the true power and handling on the road. You take it out on the Interstate because that has the highest speed limits. You quickly get it up to to 70 mph, but that's not enough. You need more. You start to push it a little farther; no big deal... law enforcement doesn't usually care if you're only going a few mph over the limit, right? Well, you haven't been caught yet, so why not push it a little more? Before you know it you're at 95 mph and you see blue lights coming up quick behind you. Is that office going to let you off the hook because you own the car, have it modded and you feel you can do what you want with it? Would you expect them to?
Yes, we buy the phones. Yes, we own them. Yes, we can mod them how ever we can. What we can't do, though, is agree to a service contract and expect the provider of that contract to allow us to ignore their rules and exploit their services to the point that it costs them money. They are a business. They are not in the business for giving away free service, or replace products because the end user did not use them as intended; if they were they would not be in business very long. The carrier has the right to charge what they do, whether we like it or not. We, as users, have the right to find service elsewhere (most of us) or do with out. We agree to their terms when we allow them to provide us service. You do not have to sign a contract to agree to their terms; activating your phone on their network makes the agreement for you. Manufacturers have the right to lock their phones down, after all, they manufacture them. They are not in business to provide two or three phones for the price of one just because we broke the first couple trying to make them do things they were not intended to do. Again, if they were then they wouldn't be in business very long. If we do not like their practices we can buy from others.
I guess what it all boils down to in my mind is that if modding and hacking had been used the right way, we, the modding community and it's followers, might not have this situation coming down on us. If we did it just to customize our phones the way we want them, I'm sure they would have allowed that and worked with us. Since the opposite has been true for the most part, it surprises me in no way that this is about to happen. Users have been 'jailbreaking' and 'rooting' their phones for years, with a vast majority of them being used to circumvent the rules. So, the rules are about to change... like it or not.
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bongd said:
I am being realistic. Nothing has been implemented yet, so how can we start brain storming? Nothing but ideas at this point, but it's a hard.
And by a revolt I don't mean one of those stupid petitions. We have people with varying specialties and occupations. Perhaps someone can find a legal clause that will help the battle, something in the ToS that would prevent the segregation of rooted versus non-rooted customers, etc.
Don't get all pissy on me about things. I'm not dreaming of anything outlandish. It's better than being a pessimist and taking it in the ass. Many people chose the Android platform for the freedom it provides. It enough customers are grossly outraged, it will NOT come to pass.
Look at Usage Based Billing. I work for one of the biggest ISPs in Canada and when we tried to introduce UBB we saw customers CHURN tremendously. We've received death threats for Christ sakes... and now ask me, cegna09, please ask if we've decided to go forward and bill customers under UBB?
In case that wasn't blatantly obvious and cynical enough, no, we haven't. It scared CEOs ****less and irritated the hell out of front line staff to the point where many of us feel no loyalty to the company anymore. It has shaken what little trust the consumers had in us and they've flocked for other providers. If Google wants to do this, they'd better be prepared for a ****storm of negative press. This is either fear mongering, exaggerations or a bad idea for Google and wireless carriers.
P.S. I type most of my posts at work so they're not always grammatically sound or eloquent. I don't give a **** though. Thanks for caring.
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The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
cegna09 said:
The world of mobile devices is a bit different though. I would wager a bet that 90% of users have no interest in rooting, modding, etc, or even a knowledge of what it is. They just don't care. So when 10%, or even if it's as high as 20%, of the user base shows dissatisfaction, i doubt it would sway them. In the mobile world you always have the choice to change platforms, carriers, etc. With ISPs (at least here in the US), you really have no choice over who you use for where you live.
And my point on the developers is just that's always easier to close exploits than to find them. And it looks like there is new modification to close exploits. I think it's going to start to turn into a 1 step forward 2 steps back game. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that way, but that's where i see it with the information presented.
The place you might have a chance of fighting is the recent ruling that made it legal to root/jailbreak phones. Though i bet AT&T and verizon's lawyers are hard at work finding ways around that.
Oh, and i never commented on your grammar.
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I'm sure there are a slew of celebrity lawyers on speed dial, and I know that the Apple jailbreaking case will be strongly referenced if there is a class action lawsuit.
I also recognize and appreciate the circumstances regarding closing and finding exploits. It's always a game of cat and mouse. And it sucks having to find exploits and holes. Sometimes it's easy but sometimes it's extremely tough. I'm hoping it's not the latter.
In any event, I'm going to hold out. I know that there'll be a work around or at least a ton of backlash. You bring up a good point that it's a very small percentage of users who root. But that small percentage is virtually all made up of power users. While we're small in numbers, we're more intelligent than the tweenies who just get Androids for texting and Facebook.
I know that petitions and things like that normally don't get done (I never bothered with the bootloader petition for example) but I know that more constructive and intelligent users will chime in with glorious ideas to keep this **** at bay. I sincerely hope it was a late April fools day joke or something. I don't mind Google data mining and harvesting all my consumer logistics as long as they don't clamp down on my phone. Win win situation. I don't mind their parasitic or insidious intentions at all.
kdspiv said:
And given enough time EVERYTHING can be cracked.
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Except Motorola's bootloaders.
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
RacecarBMW said:
Except Motorola's bootloaders.
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It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
Kueller said:
It only takes one disgruntled or sympathetic employee...Where are the social engineers?
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If only someone was willing to risk their job
phobos512 said:
jgc121 -
The two parts of the car arguments are invalid. First, loss of warranty, is invalid due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (federal law) and states that a manufacturer cannot automatically invalidate a warranty because of what an end-user has done. There's a burden of proof. It's a consumer protection.
On your friend's second point, exceeding the speed limit is illegal. It is not in the same class as modifying a device. There is no law being broken. You might argue that unauthorized tethering is theft, which I'd need to hear the argument for - who has sustained damages? How can those damages be quantified?
I do, however, agree that this has been brought upon by the end-users who do naughty things (unauthorized tethering, malware creation, piracy).
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If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
ok i can sorta understand them wanting to stop free tethering, but why root in general, some people like adding custome roms, or tweaking themes to make their phone that THEY purchased look the way they want it to. I really don't use tether, but locking down root, that's just ridiculous...smh
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
jgc121 said:
If you read how the car arguments are compared - you will understand my friends point. And just by rooting your device, you void your warranty - just like if you add nitrous to your car - warranty gone.... its the same thing. It is the same as modifying these devices, running 'unauthorized firmware' IS technically a warranty voiding action.
Also - these are not MY opinions - just opinions and information from others that im passing along - dont shoot the messenger buddy And tethering without a plan - the way its setup on the network - is theft. It costs them money, and they dont like it.
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Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
phobos512 said:
No; that's exactly my point. Modifying something you own does NOT automatically void the warranty. Read the act; it isn't complicated. I've been modding vehicles for 10 years - I know the law.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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I too have been modding vehicles for nearly 15 yrs now, I am an ASE certified technician with EPA certifications, and an Associates Degree in Business Management as well. (Feel free to pm me for proof) I am well aware of this act and the laws. You are missing the point of the previous posts.
A manufacturers warranty would never cover a blown engine due to N20 use.... it just wont. Its intended to cover the engine as it was from the factory. Any changes to the factory setup (within certain limits) are ok. Something like N20 - thats a deal breaker.
As i said before - the previous posts are not MY opinions.... just information i was passing along.
Not sure about that whole Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act..... didn't feel like reading up on it.... but in regards to the whole thing with AT&T and potentially other carriers shutting off all form of cell service to a person with a rooted/jailbroken phone by way of discovery with a special code in the software.... it won't happen unless they're using it in an illegal way (as in using a free tethering workaround, and abusing it to the point that it's easily distinguished that something fishy is going on).... plain and simple. As i mentioned in the other thread with the exact same article linked to in the Atrix forums (one of the other recent threads), the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was ammended in July 2010, and one of those ammendments was that jailbreaking/rooting a mobile phone to install unauthorized or unapproved applications on the phone is legal.
So.... in regards to the earlier comment someone made laughing at the idea of a "revolt"..... if AT&T starts shutting off service to people who rooted/jailbroke their phone for the sole purpose of either installing a modified ROM or allowing further customisation of the OS than the non-rooted/jailbroke device will allow, then yes, there WOULD be a revolt. That revolt would take the form of... what i believe would fall under a class-action lawsuit. If they can't prove that the person who's service they cut off was using their rooted/jailbroken device in a way that was hindering their service.... which would mostly be the free tethering workarounds and some of those morons downloading quite a few gigabytes of data in a month..... then they would technically be breaking federal law by doing so.

Want the bootloader keys? Lets all fight back!

To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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See above for my response to this!
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.
roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
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Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
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Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
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You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
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^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
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It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.
Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
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yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
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You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.
elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
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by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?

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