Related
I would like to see what people think.
wth!!! that is retarded!!
How can the government even grant most of these patents? You invent the wheel, sure it makes life MUCH simpler for everyone, you deserve a patent. You start using latex instead of sheep skins for condom production - bravo - grant a patent. On the other hand, all these iPhone patents do is stifle innovation and overload the legal system. Plus, most of these "patents" are so vague that they're virtually guaranteed to have precedent by someone other than Apple patent holders. Really hope Google steps into this frey and not only helps HTC to squash Apple's claims, but also publically lay into the patent office for granting these things in the first place.
Good god almighty, those are ****ing stupid patents to grant.
bundys said:
How can the government even grant most of these patents? You invent the wheel, sure it makes life MUCH simpler for everyone, you deserve a patent. You start using latex instead of sheep skins for condom production - bravo - grant a patent. On the other hand, all these iPhone patents do is stifle innovation and overload the legal system. Plus, most of these "patents" are so vague that they're virtually guaranteed to have precedent by someone other than Apple patent holders. Really hope Google steps into this frey and not only helps HTC to squash Apple's claims, but also publically lay into the patent office for granting these things in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I hope this goes toward deconstructing the patent system and exposing for what it truly is--not a protection for intellectual property, but a tool for naked corporate greed.
Steve Jobs is a big fat ****....
He's going after android. Check this http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/...lawsuit?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget
Steve Jobs is an idiot. He cant handle any competition, he knows his device is inferior and cant handle that. He is shaking in his boots right now with the rapid growth of android. I really hope Google/HTC give him a big F you and put him in his place.
What's the point of this poll?
Who the heck in this forum is going to vote Yes?
No one will, except of course for DMaverick and pr0cl1v1ty.
Am I the only thinking that this would be the perfect time for google to start showing Ads on TV with the theme of look what our device can do that the iphone cant?
I would pay good money to see the look on Steve Jobs face the first time he sees this.
HTC should sue Apple for being stupid.
Software patents need to go, but how much you wanna bet that this is about Apple pre-emptively suing HTC before HTC sue *them*? I bet this is a face-saving measure. They'll cross-license and that will be the end of it.
I do agree that Apple has at least something to hold against HTC *cough* Android *cough* what comes to the patent infringements. In addition I also think that this is some laughable and needless muscle flexing on Apple's part and to think that it wouldn't be regarded as a proxy attack at Android and Google is just preposterous.
Come whatever may since this is going to get really ugly but I think Apple is not going to be the one coming out on top.
What an easy way to get money by licensing the patents...see what Nokia is doing on Apple...so now even Apple settles a deal with Nokia Apple may not need to get a penny out from its pocket...
Steve Jobs will talk **** about Android but he's too scared to sue Google so he sues HTC..haha thats a good one Steve, how about you go back into hiding
jp_macaroni said:
HTC should sue Apple for being stupid.
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Better yet, HTC should pull out the big guns (Microsoft) to sue them
Checkers or Chess?
Not cool Apple....especially since you stole from xerox etc(oh and Steve spoke of blatantly stealing from others)....but if you want to get to the root of it all Apple feels extremely threatened by Google/Android....Google is all about innovation and in Androids infant stages they blew Google off. Remember how much Apple used google maps to sell the iPhone when it was 1st introduced(the irony)....Now Android is growing up and its more of a competitor. But if you go against one you have to go against all of the companies with custom versions of Android in one way or another....I think the company that everyone keeps forgetting about is Palm...They were the catalysts for the mobile OS's we love today....The only reason HTC is in the crossfire is because of the Sense UI. But if you attack Sense UI, then you must attack Blur, Rachael, Dell's custom UI, and TouchWiz....(Thats HTC, Motorola, Sony Ericcson, Dell and Samsung) So instead of Apple focusing on bringing innovative products and services it chooses to contend with Google in a very risky game of chess. I personally feel many of Apple's policies slow innovation and impede competition.(app store**cough**) Apple I hope you get taught a humbling lesson.
If you read the breakdown of all the patents that they claim have been infringed upon, you can easily see that these would not only apply to Android, but a large variety of desktop operating systems and mobile oses as well.
engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/
I am sorry but what apple is doing with their iphone and mobile OS platform is just not good for growth long term; i will however give them the benefit of the doubt as far as short term growth but long term they are only hurting themselves unless they really can get the government to uphold all these patents...
personally i think these patents are so pathetic and i do not think the government had any clue what they were patenting when they actually allowed apple to get the patents that they did... the government nor did anyone else have any clue what the mobile world would like like it does now, 3 years ago when those patents were first granted... i mean, can you imagine the money the guy who patented urinal cakes makes if he invented and patented those things right after urinals were invented? some technology is better left unprotected by uncle same for the good of advancement... how the hell can you have a patent on a screen that registers multiple touches to it? that is the most unorthodox thing i think i have ever heard in my life... apple put out a great product, no doubt but they are going about every wrong direction in keeping their product and legacy alive... continue to innovate rather than play defense behind lawyers... i would rather buy from a continuously innovative company that promotes the growth of their products rather than a company who puts out 1 good product and then attacks everyone else to keep their product at the top, and thats just a matter of respect for a business...
I will admit, when the iphone first came out, that was the gadget to have and it was hands down the best phone and to some extent still is... apple has controlled every aspect of the phones growth and has more/less been very opposing to the group of jailbreakers and iphone hackers that have tried to bring 3rd party software to the phones (remember those updates that bricked a lot of peoples phones?). But with that said there comes a time where a company needs to let go, they did great at getting the phone, and to a certain extent, the entire mobile market really moving but after awhile they need to let things go and realize that they have already created a legacy and the users need to take the phone and platform the direction they want to go.
Simplicity is the key to get something started, complexity is the key to keep that same thing interesting...
Apple's only biting because HTC (with Google) are producing sales stealing devices. As far as I am aware, this is the first time Apple has filed patent breaches without first negotiating with the infringing party.
In legal circles, this is truely the response from a very immature, emotional, foot stomping little boy.
GO HTC!! GO Android!! GO you good thing!!
Honestly, I voted that I do agree with some of the patents that they had been granted, not all. Maybe through this mess we'll see some great innovation; interfaces that we've never considered before, alterations to common ideals of the way our phones operate. Google has brought us a good thing. From the perspective of apple, it would be intelligent to stop the source (htc), if there were infringing content being distributed (to be decided I guess). Google provides the best mobile OS available, HTC distributes it. It will end well for the consumer though, I promise.
"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
- Steve Jobs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU
What a f-tard.
From what I can gather, the claims at its core appear to be about android and wm. I would like to see Google and Microsoft join forces on this one and get behind HTC.
Cut and paste....
Microsoft says Android infringes on its patents, licenses HTC (update: talking to other Android manufacturers as well)
By Vladislav Savov posted Apr 28th 2010 at 12:40PM
The lawyers up in Redmond seem to have been woken from their slumber with the sudden realization that -- oh look! -- Google's Android OS infringes on Microsoft's boatload of software patents. How specifically it does so is not identified, but Microsoft believes that elements from both the user interface and the underlying operating system are in violation of its rights. This is very much in keeping with the Windows maker's crusade to assert patent claims over Linux, which in the past has garnished it with cross-licensing deals with Amazon and Xandros, as well as a settlement from TomTom. Lawsuits are not yet being discussed here, but lest you think this is a small-time disturbance, longtime Windows Mobile / Windows Phone partner HTC has already decided to shorten its list of troubles by ponying up for a license from Microsoft that covers its Android phones -- it would be pretty insane if Microsoft sued one of its biggest and most important hardware manufacturers for patent infringement, after all. Even still, it's now an unfortunate fact that HTC is having to pay Microsoft royalties to use Google's operating system. Strange days, indeed.
Update: Microsoft deputy general counsel of intellectual property Horacio Gutierrez just sent us a statement saying that the company's been "talking to several device manufacturers to address our concerns relative to the Android mobile platform." We're taking that to mean the same as above: Microsoft isn't too interested in suing any of its Windows Mobile / Windows Phone partners, so it's trying to work out patent license deals with those companies in advance of any nastiness. It's an interesting strategy: patents forbid anyone from making, using, or selling your invention, so Redmond can protect its partners while still leaving open the possibility of a lawsuit with Google itself down the line. In fact, we'd almost say it seems like Microsoft's agreement with HTC is as much of a threat to Google as Apple's lawsuit -- Redmond's basically saying you can't sell an Android device without paying a license fee, and we'd bet those fees are real close to the Windows Phone 7 license fee. Clever, clever -- we'll see how this one plays out. Here's Horacio's full statement:
Microsoft has a decades-long record of investment in software platforms. As a result, we have built a significant patent portfolio in this field, and we have a responsibility to our customers, partners, and shareholders to ensure that competitors do not free ride on our innovations. We have also consistently taken a proactive approach to licensing to resolve IP infringement by other companies, and have been talking with several device manufacturers to address our concerns relative to the Android mobile platform.
Via Engadget. -----> http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/28/microsoft-says-android-infringes-on-its-patents-licenses-htc/
Seems like interesting times ahead.
It doesn't matter, HTC cooperated nicely with Microsoft. Microsoft brokered a deal licensing their technology to HTC. Engadget (I read this on Phandroid) also states though, in another article, that this could raise the price of Android phones.
m.gizmodo.com/site?t=NhIoa9.xgxKeRWKcnVfXQw&sid=gizmodo
Eclair~ said:
this could raise the price of Android phones.
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Wonderful (sarcasm).. if this did happen, I hope it happens later in the summer..
I would be curious to know if htc was aware that this was coming before they took a pass on Palm? The deal with Microsoft didnt happen overnight but certainly if they knew it was coming that juicy patent portfolio palm is sitting on would have been more enticing. That ship has now sailed with the HP aquisition announced today so its just an odd tidbit to speculate about at this point I guess.
krabman said:
I would be curious to know if htc was aware that this was coming before they took a pass on Palm? The deal with Microsoft didnt happen overnight but certainly if they knew it was coming that juicy patent portfolio palm is sitting on would have been more enticing. That ship has now sailed with the HP aquisition announced today so its just an odd tidbit to speculate about at this point I guess.
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Interesting thought for sure.
The HP deal is huge. WebOS is an amazing platform and now it has the financial backing it desperately needed. I'm mostly excited about WebOS's integration into the HP tablets. I might pick one up if they a good job with it.
Competition is definitely heating up with iPhone 4.0, HP WebOS, Blackberry 6.0 and Symbian 3! Hopefully Android will come out of top!
I hope they all do well, means more options for us.
Sick of these bloated American companies practising lawsuits and claims instead of making better products, don't be evil Microsoft!
And Just as I was typing this, my windows 7 suddenly started to shutdown as if it knew what I was typing... (restart after update reminder popped up, while typing... lol)
man, i'm so sick of everyone attacking Android. Just because it's awesome, innovative, open, and growing because everyone wants it the big companies can't do anything other than try to stall it's growth through litigation.
I'm fed up with all these stupid ass patent infringement cases. I wish the Gov't would step in and clean up how tech patents are granted.. That would allow for more innovation which is good for us (consumers) which are supposed to be what this is all about. Not protecting BIG CORPORATIONS and fattening their pockets.
The government doesnt step up and do anything because they are employees of the various huge companies whose contributions gave them the money to get elected, in other words they are owned by them. Big companies love these things because basically in the patent world you dont need to be right, you just need to have more money. Make no mistake, its not android they are attacking, its google. Everyone fears google, a company who is in a position to become the most powerful private entity that ever existed. This is how their search engine gets stripped out of phones, apple makes kissy face with microsoft, and on and on, you can see it everyhwere.
One last one, America does not have a monopoly on bloated greedy companies.
This debate reminds me of an article I read about the apple lawsuit a month or so ago.
The Ugly Nexus One:
http://www.maclife.com/article/news/ugly_nexus_one_if_apple_wins_patent_suits
I love the power crank.
Oddly enough, I read a theory someone postulated that Microsoft is doing this to, in some way, provide HTC some shielding from the Apple suit a la "No, we're infringing on THESE guys's patents, and we're paying them for it". Definitely an interesting theory, and it wouldn't make sense for Microsoft to deliberately try to harm their largest developer of Windows Phones. Only time will tell, I suppose...
ChillRays said:
This debate reminds me of an article I read about the apple lawsuit a month or so ago.
The Ugly Nexus One:
http://www.maclife.com/article/news/ugly_nexus_one_if_apple_wins_patent_suits
I love the power crank.
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Funny thing is that's exactly what 2 of my home screens look like, random groupings of icons, with space for new widgets or apps.
I still can’t believe that you can patent software under US law. Its crazy. You can’t in Europe (well you can, but it has to be part of a patent for hardware).
Cases like this illustrate how stupid unproductive it is. How can one company be allowed claim an exclusive right to software doing something in a certain way…?
BigDamHero said:
I still can’t believe that you can patent software under US law. Its crazy. You can’t in Europe (well you can, but it has to be part of a patent for hardware).
Cases like this illustrate how stupid unproductive it is. How can one company be allowed claim an exclusive right to software doing something in a certain way…?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts exactly
MaximReapage said:
Oddly enough, I read a theory someone postulated that Microsoft is doing this to, in some way, provide HTC some shielding from the Apple suit a la "No, we're infringing on THESE guys's patents, and we're paying them for it". Definitely an interesting theory, and it wouldn't make sense for Microsoft to deliberately try to harm their largest developer of Windows Phones. Only time will tell, I suppose...
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Click to collapse
You know I posted that theory on engadget, and if that's the case then by all means good move HTC and way to go Microsoft. I would like to know the fee for said licensing though.
And better yet I would love to know if in fact Linux does infringe on Microsoft's patents. I've read that Microsoft has always went around to smaller companies using Linux and bullied them into paying license fees, but that one company stood up to them and Microsoft backed down. Because Microsoft hasnt ever made it public which code that Linux actually infringes and if is ever released then it will more than likely be yanked from Linux thereby Microsoft would have no way of making money off all these companies when it SHOULDN't be anyway.
I know this forum has a lot of talented guys that know OS's especially Microsoft and Linux. What's your guys take on this?
Another question a person might ask considering the kissy face microsoft has been making with apple lately is why did they not pursue licensing agreements with apple on some of that IP? MS has nearly 11000 active patents in its portfolio including a broad range of touch input patents. Here is an example..... cut and paste...
Multi-touch uses, gestures, and implementation with the following abstract:
A tablet PC having an interactive display, which is touchscreen enabled, may be enhanced to provide a user with superior usability and efficiency. A touchscreen device may be configured to receive multiple concurrent touchscreen contacts. The attributes of the multiple concurrent touchscreen contracts may be mapped to operations performed on the computing device. As a result, a user can trigger the execution of the toggle accessibility aid operation and the screen rotation operation with greater convenience. Moreover, the tablet PC may be configured to map an operation to a hand gesture or input.... end cut and paste.
The patent application filing date is May 12, 2006, or a few months before Apples famous multi touch patent application. So, a simple cost versus profit business decision or part of a grander strategy in light of this latest?
These patent infringements are stretching. They're trying to patent intuitive processes/gestures and not the actual technology. If it flies in court, it will be because the lawyers involved are too stupid to see the difference.
It's like establishing the first road by using the same path over and over, and then claiming to have patented the action of driving on a road and suing all other road builders. That's going to piss off mightily the guy who just spent time and money to develop asphalt, and rightfully so.
Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and his butt-boy Steve Ballmer need to unpucker their asses and shut the hell up.
BigDamHero said:
I still can’t believe that you can patent software under US law. Its crazy. You can’t in Europe (well you can, but it has to be part of a patent for hardware).
Cases like this illustrate how stupid unproductive it is. How can one company be allowed claim an exclusive right to software doing something in a certain way…?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right.
It's because here in the US, lawyers and judges are by and large too stupid to understand any technology more complex than a toaster. There are exceptions, but they're vastly outnumbered. The worst part is, they seem to multiply like rabbits, they're all hungry and they'll take any idiotic argument they can to court for the off chance of a big payday.
I think actually the license agreement will be to use Microsoft's FAT/FAT32 file system that is on the SD card. FAT and FAT32 is a widely used file system but is microsoft property, is was ignored by microsoft for years and then they realised that they could make money from it, as cameras, photo frames, phones and linux has it.
So the reason there quiet about it is because if it's only the filesystem then no one can dismiss the linux violates the patents news story.
What exactly did Android do to piss Microsoft off ?
hey guys I came across this article on msn give it a read and leave your comments. ANDROID RULES!!!! Typical Apple bulls**t!!!
By Tony Bradley
What If Steve Jobs Is Right?
Apple has been engaged in heated legal battles around the world claiming that Android smartphones and tablets infringe on its patents. Android loyalists see the legal attacks as a desperate, oppressive move by Apple to stifle competition, but perhaps the success of Android is a function of the ways it "borrows" Apple intellectual property.
According to leaked excerpts from the Steve Jobs biography which will be officially released tomorrow, Jobs is quoted saying, "I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this."
Jobs is also credited with stating, "I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong."
Sleeping With the Enemy
It doesn't take too much imagination to understand how Android could be a knock-off of iOS. Apple and Google were buddies--allies against Microsoft in that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sort of way. Google's CEO--now Chairman--Eric Schmidt was a personal friend of Steve Jobs and sat on the Apple board of directors.
Seeing Google and Schmidt as partners against Microsoft--more importantly partners that didn't compete directly in key areas like mobile devices and operating systems--Apple and Jobs would have felt comfortable sharing details of iOS. Schmidt was in a position to get confidential information on the strategy and vision for the future of the iPhone and possibly even the embryonic concepts of the iPad.
I am not suggesting Schmidt set out to infiltrate Apple in an act of corporate espionage. It is possible, however, that Schmidt saw the genius of the Apple roadmap, but disagreed on certain aspects of implementation--like the "walled garden" approach of Apple--and decided to build a more open version of the same thing with Android.
Perhaps Schmidt "stole" from iOS without even being conscious of it.
An Inside Job
When it comes to Samsung, things get even stickier. Not only is Samsung using Android as the operating system in its flagship smartphones and tablets, and now portable music players, but Samsung devices are identical in form and design as well. The Samsung smartphones and tablets are virtually identical hardware to Apple mobile devices, running an operating system that seems to "borrow heavily" from Apple software concepts.
Like Schmidt with the iOS software, Samsung was in a somewhat unique position to know intimate details of the Apple hardware and architecture. Samsung is a key supplier of chips and displays for Apple smartphones and tablets, and may have had inside knowledge that it employed in developing its own competing devices.
Maybe the reason that Samsung is the number two maker of smartphones behind Apple, and the reason that the Samsung Galaxy Tabs seem to be the only Android tablet enjoying some sense of success in the market is because they so closely mirror the Apple iPhone and iPad.
No Surrender
There is some additional evidence to support the quotes from the Steve Jobs biography. Intellectual property and patent analyst Florian Mueller recently uncovered information from legal filings in the case between Apple and Samsung in Australia that demonstrate that Apple is not interested in collecting a licensing fee. It wants the infringing products banned, and its intellectual property protected, and it has no intention of selling it to Samsung, HTC, or anyone else for a few dollars per unit.
A blog post from Mueller outlines in detail some of the passages from testimony that show Apple's commitment to defending its patents. Mueller sums up with, "Apple is prepared to give Android device makers a license to "some lower level patents" but it wants to reserve various design elements and functionalities exclusively for iOS."
What If?
I am not a lawyer, nor am I a patent attorney. I am admittedly speculating.
In general, I agree that patent litigation is getting out of hand. It has become a standard operating procedure and part of the normal business model for hardware and software makers.
I don't agree with patent trolling, or using patent litigation as a strategic weapon to stifle competition. However, I do support the defense of patents and intellectual property that are legitimately being infringed upon. What if the Android OS and the devices it runs on actually infringe on patents held by Apple?
There is no denying that Android has been a tremendous success in smartphones. It has stumbled (repeatedly) out of the starting gate in tablets, but I imagine it will eventually make up ground and one day surpass Apple's iOS in that arena as well. But, it is possible that Android owes its success to concepts and technologies it does not have a legal right to make use of.
If a company came out with a new cola beverage that tasted just like Coca Cola, and its sales surpassed those of the iconic beverage giant we might put that company on a pedestal as a shining example of American ingenuity and commitment to excellence. But, if we later found out that the new cola only exists because its founders served on the board of Coca Cola and literally stole the secret formula for Coke, our opinion of that beverage and the success of that company would change dramatically.
The fact that Android is successful should not have any weight on determining whether it achieved that success by violating Apple patents. The impact an injunction against Android devices might have on the smartphone market should not be sufficient to excuse profiting from the theft of intellectual property.
It's easy to paint Apple as the bad guy and jump to the conclusion that its patent suits are just a sign of sour grapes over the success of Android. It seems apparent, though, that Steve Jobs was absolutely positive that Android is stolen and he had no intention of backing down or compromising with licensing agreements.
What if Steve Jobs is right?
Copyright (c) 2011
Apple's too full of themselves.
They aren't the originator of anything. They can't claim someone else stole from them because they have nothing under their belt that wasn't done before them.
Smartphones? Done before Apple did it.
Home computing? Done before Apple did it.
Digital media? Done before Apple did it.
Portable media players? Done before Apple did it.
Tablets? Done before Apple did it.
...only thing Apple deserves credit for is knowing how to pretty something up to be mainstreamed, professionally inflating figures to overbloat their successes, and knowing how to take advantage of masses of millions who don't research to learn anything. Without out-of-the-know and tech illiterate consumers, Apple would had fallen through long, LONG ago. Of course they want to kill Android; they're scared ****less... Android's claimed more marketshare per month for many, many consecutive month and single handed brought excellence to everything that iOS was mediocre at.
They can claim Android steals from iOS, but look at what iOS5 comes jam-packed with... tons of features that Android users have already had for ages.
If Steve Jobs is right, then mass scale theft is allegedly being commited. And there are two possible ways to confront it. Either the 200 million people who have bought Android devices are content with cooperating with mass scale theft... or it is not mass scale theft. While any sane person would agree to the second idea, that would make the Western economies collapse, as many product makers (Apple most prominently, but most market leaders would do the same) depend increasingly on patentable added-value.
thatsupnow said:
hey guys I came across this article on msn give it a read and leave your comments. ANDROID RULES!!!! Typical Apple bulls**t!!!
By Tony Bradley
What If Steve Jobs Is Right?
Apple has been engaged in heated legal battles around the world claiming that Android smartphones and tablets infringe on its patents. Android loyalists see the legal attacks as a desperate, oppressive move by Apple to stifle competition, but perhaps the success of Android is a function of the ways it "borrows" Apple intellectual property.
According to leaked excerpts from the Steve Jobs biography which will be officially released tomorrow, Jobs is quoted saying, "I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this."
Jobs is also credited with stating, "I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong."
Sleeping With the Enemy
It doesn't take too much imagination to understand how Android could be a knock-off of iOS. Apple and Google were buddies--allies against Microsoft in that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sort of way. Google's CEO--now Chairman--Eric Schmidt was a personal friend of Steve Jobs and sat on the Apple board of directors.
Seeing Google and Schmidt as partners against Microsoft--more importantly partners that didn't compete directly in key areas like mobile devices and operating systems--Apple and Jobs would have felt comfortable sharing details of iOS. Schmidt was in a position to get confidential information on the strategy and vision for the future of the iPhone and possibly even the embryonic concepts of the iPad.
I am not suggesting Schmidt set out to infiltrate Apple in an act of corporate espionage. It is possible, however, that Schmidt saw the genius of the Apple roadmap, but disagreed on certain aspects of implementation--like the "walled garden" approach of Apple--and decided to build a more open version of the same thing with Android.
Perhaps Schmidt "stole" from iOS without even being conscious of it.
An Inside Job
When it comes to Samsung, things get even stickier. Not only is Samsung using Android as the operating system in its flagship smartphones and tablets, and now portable music players, but Samsung devices are identical in form and design as well. The Samsung smartphones and tablets are virtually identical hardware to Apple mobile devices, running an operating system that seems to "borrow heavily" from Apple software concepts.
Like Schmidt with the iOS software, Samsung was in a somewhat unique position to know intimate details of the Apple hardware and architecture. Samsung is a key supplier of chips and displays for Apple smartphones and tablets, and may have had inside knowledge that it employed in developing its own competing devices.
Maybe the reason that Samsung is the number two maker of smartphones behind Apple, and the reason that the Samsung Galaxy Tabs seem to be the only Android tablet enjoying some sense of success in the market is because they so closely mirror the Apple iPhone and iPad.
No Surrender
There is some additional evidence to support the quotes from the Steve Jobs biography. Intellectual property and patent analyst Florian Mueller recently uncovered information from legal filings in the case between Apple and Samsung in Australia that demonstrate that Apple is not interested in collecting a licensing fee. It wants the infringing products banned, and its intellectual property protected, and it has no intention of selling it to Samsung, HTC, or anyone else for a few dollars per unit.
A blog post from Mueller outlines in detail some of the passages from testimony that show Apple's commitment to defending its patents. Mueller sums up with, "Apple is prepared to give Android device makers a license to "some lower level patents" but it wants to reserve various design elements and functionalities exclusively for iOS."
What If?
I am not a lawyer, nor am I a patent attorney. I am admittedly speculating.
In general, I agree that patent litigation is getting out of hand. It has become a standard operating procedure and part of the normal business model for hardware and software makers.
I don't agree with patent trolling, or using patent litigation as a strategic weapon to stifle competition. However, I do support the defense of patents and intellectual property that are legitimately being infringed upon. What if the Android OS and the devices it runs on actually infringe on patents held by Apple?
There is no denying that Android has been a tremendous success in smartphones. It has stumbled (repeatedly) out of the starting gate in tablets, but I imagine it will eventually make up ground and one day surpass Apple's iOS in that arena as well. But, it is possible that Android owes its success to concepts and technologies it does not have a legal right to make use of.
If a company came out with a new cola beverage that tasted just like Coca Cola, and its sales surpassed those of the iconic beverage giant we might put that company on a pedestal as a shining example of American ingenuity and commitment to excellence. But, if we later found out that the new cola only exists because its founders served on the board of Coca Cola and literally stole the secret formula for Coke, our opinion of that beverage and the success of that company would change dramatically.
The fact that Android is successful should not have any weight on determining whether it achieved that success by violating Apple patents. The impact an injunction against Android devices might have on the smartphone market should not be sufficient to excuse profiting from the theft of intellectual property.
It's easy to paint Apple as the bad guy and jump to the conclusion that its patent suits are just a sign of sour grapes over the success of Android. It seems apparent, though, that Steve Jobs was absolutely positive that Android is stolen and he had no intention of backing down or compromising with licensing agreements.
What if Steve Jobs is right?
Copyright (c) 2011
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tldr........
Android never felt like iOS, so I'm really not sure how it could be considered stolen..
Out of the gate Android's product had different intentions, to be a customizable, to be used on a wide range of hardware, and to be flexible.
Apple's iOS is not customizable, in fact it's set up the way a certain individual likes it, even if you don't like it like that. It's only used on specific hardware, and it's in no way flexible.
Steve Jobs patented the action of inertial scrolling, or scrolling that seemed more natural for touch. Great concept, not a great thing to patent, as it's really the only way it can feel natural to a human, and the idea of "I released it first so you're stealing" is entirely childish. Did Apple really expect Google to incorporate scroll bars instead?
This is the only thing I can really think of where Apple has any sort of ground, as I said before, Android has always felt like an entirely different concept. This whole "Android is a stolen product" thing just seems like a childish way to snuff out the biggest competitor.
It has worked with Samsung. The Galaxy Tab was basically wiped from important markets with its Germany ban.
Android never die
android will kill apple , symbian and f**en windows phone . i'm sure
I like competition. It makes smartphones get better. When android has no real competitors I guarantee you there'll not be update.
This article (and many others) continually neglects the fact that Android (as a company) was founded in 2003, at the same time Apple was partnered with Motorola to put iTunes on the ROKR. Google was not involved with Android till 2005, and at that point there is no way they built a complete OS from Google's acquisition to the Nov 2007 release of Android. They had been working on this thing from the beginning, and I'm sure there were some external influences, but to say that it was stolen is downright wrong. Heck if that was true you could say Apple stole from Palm as iOS functions much the same as my old Palm Pilot did. And Apple has been taking design elements from Android (like notifications) that could be construed in the same way.
Steve Jobs I'm sorry that you are gone, you were an innovator in many things, and a marketing genius and I have tremendous respect for you as a business man. However you served up some great Kool Aid, and your overall megalomaniac attitude towards this just shows that you think you can bully anyone out of your "ideas" when in truth they weren't even yours.
Rogue Leader said:
This article (and many others) continually neglects the fact that Android (as a company) was founded in 2003, at the same time Apple was partnered with Motorola to put iTunes on the ROKR. Google was not involved with Android till 2005, and at that point there is no way they built a complete OS from Google's acquisition to the Nov 2007 release of Android. They had been working on this thing from the beginning, and I'm sure there were some external influences, but to say that it was stolen is downright wrong. Heck if that was true you could say Apple stole from Palm as iOS functions much the same as my old Palm Pilot did. And Apple has been taking design elements from Android (like notifications) that could be construed in the same way.
Steve Jobs I'm sorry that you are gone, you were an innovator in many things, and a marketing genius and I have tremendous respect for you as a business man. However you served up some great Kool Aid, and your overall megalomaniac attitude towards this just shows that you think you can bully anyone out of your "ideas" when in truth they weren't even yours.
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I agree, Steve Jobs was pretty amazing but when something does not go his way (For example A product that is going to kick Apple's ass) then he will just start a lawsuite and cry over it. R.I.P Though.
Steve Jobs made a fortune off of borrowed ideas. He was simply good at marketing ideas that were previously overlooked. The only truly innovative thing he ever "invented" was the Apple II, and that was largely thanks to Wozniak. He recognized good ideas when he saw them, but to say that he invented any of it is ridiculous.
He stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as he could, and before he even knew what he had, he patented it, and packaged it, and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now *pounds fists* he's selling it.
Too soon...
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iliketrains said:
Too soon...
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pfft! Nothing is too soon I could see if you knew him personally ya but chances are pretty good you don't
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thatsupnow said:
pfft! Nothing is too soon I could see if you knew him personally ya but chances are pretty good you don't
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Unless he's using the Kevin Bacon thingy theory on Steve Jobs, then he might, lol
Dousan said:
Unless he's using the Kevin Bacon thingy theory on Steve Jobs, then he might, lol
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Aahaha that's funny!
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For those of you who haven't seen the video, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0&feature=share
DeadSOL said:
For those of you who haven't seen the video, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0&feature=share
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Just makes you wonder how can the Samsung lawyers let this charade go this far! For crying out loud, if a couple of guys can collect this amount of evidence in a matter of few days, I'd say there is something wrong with this whole trial.
Actually this video (as some of you would have probably already seen) would be more relevant: especially @4:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj-KS2kfIr0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I remember that 1994 Steve Jobs interview when he basically admits he steals ideas, but that was when Apple were really struggling so didn't have investors and shareholders that would have shot him in the kneecaps if he said the same thing recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
---------- Post added at 01:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 AM ----------
caslca said:
Just makes you wonder how can the Samsung lawyers let this charade go this far! For crying out loud, if a couple of guys can collect this amount of evidence in a matter of few days, I'd say there is something wrong with this whole trial.
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American courts, American company.
Do you think Johnny Foreigner is ever gonna get a fair trial against a huge American company like Apple? I mean big business always funds election campaigns over there so companies like Apple have basically bought shares in USA plc.
caslca said:
Just makes you wonder how can the Samsung lawyers let this charade go this far! For crying out loud, if a couple of guys can collect this amount of evidence in a matter of few days, I'd say there is something wrong with this whole trial.
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The lawyers are horrible. It is easy to defend that. All they need is to get a hand on any documents that show Apple researching Windows OS because everyone knows everyone, including Apple researches other companies.
The recent Samsung documents telling the designers how the Galaxy S should differ from the iPhone are a real blow to the whole case, in my opinion. That's what has to stand the brunt of the attack now.
Also, one of Samsung's documents was rejected by the court. I think they brought it in too late. That's why they leaked it to the public. Ah, Samsung. What are you doing to yourselves?!
Has the whole world gone mad or just America? **** Apple. They will repeat history.. come and go.
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I hate this trial just as much as anyone, but Samsung made absolutely NO effort in differentiating their 1st gen Galaxy S (mainly i9000 model) from the iPhone. The first thought that came into my head when they revealed the phone was "why does it look like an iphone inside and out?" I know the needs to take down Goliath and all, but the first Galaxy S was just downright blatant mirror image of the iPhone...even down to the touchwiz icons and UI.
With that being said, the US patent system needs a complete overhaul to stop these frivolous suits and the Supreme Court needs to set precedence once and for all.
Todays consumer are smart. They know what they are buying. A small boy will differentiate sammy from apple. Grow up apple
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I hate this trial just as much as anyone, but Samsung made absolutely NO effort in differentiating their 1st gen Galaxy S
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Korean, japanese and russian companies all have the same principle: first copy a device, then optimize and extend it so much with the gained experience that it becomes superior to the original.
The Chinese unfortunately are not quite there yet - mainly due to lack of hightech but it won't be long.
I know the needs to take down Goliath and all, but the first Galaxy S was just downright blatant mirror image of the iPhone
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Sadly only from looks. It was sooooo sloooooow even though it's based on good hardware, mainly because Samsung decided to go with their RFS and other software issues.
For those of you who haven't seen the video
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The main problem with the video is that they exclude software, where Apple (partially more or less involuntarely since they base on FOSS software) has contributed lots of patches and extensions to existing standards and helped push new ones. Google's Chrome for instance would at least have had a much harder start if not for Apple's Safari and the resulting changes in the Webkit engine.
Apple has definitely made worthwhile contributions to the advancement of technology. For example they may have stolen the mouse from IBM but if they hadn't, IBM probably wouldn't have done anything with it.
These days however they are just plain being lame. Google should sue them for having web search in the safari browser. It's about the same level of idiocy as what Apple have dropped too.
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dr.m0x said:
Apple has definitely made worthwhile contributions to the advancement of technology. For example they may have stolen the mouse from IBM but if they hadn't, IBM probably wouldn't have done anything with it.
These days however they are just plain being lame. Google should sue them for having web search in the safari browser. It's about the same level of idiocy as what Apple have dropped too.
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The universal search patent is especially retarded.
This has always been my bugbear with patent law. Nokia's recent sign up for ms means apple now have legal rights to all of Nokia's patents and are now using Nokia patents against Samsung and htc, and indirectly claiming them as apple's (which from a legal standpoint they are!). However, the simple solution would be to do what LG and Sony already do and that is pay the damned patent license. Yes it increases overall handset cost but not significantly.
It's sad when you consider the patents would have only added on about $5 to the cost of each handset. I doubt anyone would have said "oh man, the s3 is great, but its $5 bucks over my budget".
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andyl66 said:
Nokia's recent sign up for ms means apple now have legal rights to all of Nokia's patents and are now using Nokia patents against Samsung and htc, and indirectly claiming them as apple's (which from a legal standpoint they are!).
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Wrong. It may very well be the case that Apple are suing over technology that overlaps with others patents, but it should not be doing so because it does not have the right to sue over patents it has licensed from others. From a legal standpoint they are anything but Apple's patents.
Even Intellectual Property licensed with the explicit intention of allowing a third-party to sue over the IP, isn't valid for a suit (big case on that in recent years).
Licensing means I say "Okay you can use my spatula when you need it in exchange for your mother's bra". It doesn't mean if on some other occasion someone else has it you can scream "Thief!! That spatula doesn't belong to you, give it back!" At the end of the day it's still my spatula so I can still give it to whomever else I want, and if someone steals it, that's my concern not yours.
Same thing: the patents are still Nokia's. The absolute best Apple could do is pressure Nokia into suing. You cannot sue on someone else's behalf except in exceptional cases like the would-be plaintiff is under-age, or dead.
Well, whatever the case may be, we all know that Apple is a crap company and it's trying to threaten our beloved Android. I love the fact that Android is open-source. I love the fact that Android-based devices are popping up everywhere. Nikon has made an Android-based camera. Isn't it lovely when all your devices use the same software? Isn't it amazing that we can legally hack these devices and modify them? Thank you Google for being such a friendly company!
This section is for the discussion of the SGS3, not for apple nonsense.
Closed.
I hear apple is using a lot of Microsoft technology they ripped.....
Will Microsoft lay claim to their patents ?
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wmsforties said:
I hear apple is using a lot of Microsoft technology they ripped.....
Will Microsoft lay claim to their patents ?
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is a law that Microsoft and Apple can't sue each other.
TravisAntonio said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is a law that Microsoft and Apple can't sue each other.
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Its not a law but they do have a gentleman's agreement that they will not sue each. Only they know the ins and outs of the deal but they cross license each others tech. Long story short if they did start to scrap like apple vs Samsung then both will lose out in a very long and very expensive exchange of blows that will most likely do nothing but limit both companies progression and revenue.
Well, untill recently it look like Microsoft is trying to reap on apple
Creating a nice walled garden for themself
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lumpaywk said:
Its not a law but they do have a gentleman's agreement that they will not sue each. Only they know the ins and outs of the deal but they cross license each others tech. Long story short if they did start to scrap like apple vs Samsung then both will lose out in a very long and very expensive exchange of blows that will most likely do nothing but limit both companies progression and revenue.
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Thanks and that says it all, they will not sue each other.
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Wise decision not to sue
I think it's a great, mature thing to do. All the circus with Apple and Samsung is bad for both companies.
Apple & Google
Hi all
I think it's actually a case of Apple and Google. In this case Samsung are a proxy for Google.
The problem started when Eric Schmidt, who was on the Apple board, started developing Android as a touchscreen smartphone OS (not the original intention) having learnt about the plans for the iPhone through his role on the Apple board.
Steve Jobs felt very personally betrayed over this and famously said that he would spend Apple's last dollar to destroy Google's Android.
The more damage Apple can do to any manufacturer's ability to make money from Android, the more they damage Android itself.
God bless
andrew-in-woking
lumpaywk said:
Its not a law but they do have a gentleman's agreement that they will not sue each. Only they know the ins and outs of the deal but they cross license each others tech. Long story short if they did start to scrap like apple vs Samsung then both will lose out in a very long and very expensive exchange of blows that will most likely do nothing but limit both companies progression and revenue.
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http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/13/3...cross-license-agreement-includes-anti-cloning
cross license -> http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1292505/584.pdf
Apple and Microsoft simply have been competing and coexisting in the Desktop space for a very long time. They had to find a way to deal with the whole patent situation in a way that would not interfer too much with both there businesses which means cross licensing of basic functionalities while they both retain some exclusives.
This is actually the case in most established markets. Motorola and Nokia have a cross licensing agreement as well.
When Apple and later Google entered the Smartphone sector though they began competing with the established manufacturers. Having no networking IP themselves (or very little IP at all in Googles case) but lots of new ideas for the operating system and UI this pretty much led to disturbances in the balance of power in that market. It will take some more time before all companies involved figure out what is what again and then the whole patent business will vanish from the news while the money changes hands for patents as it always has.