For those of you who haven't seen the video, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0&feature=share
DeadSOL said:
For those of you who haven't seen the video, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeC25BM9E0&feature=share
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Click to collapse
Just makes you wonder how can the Samsung lawyers let this charade go this far! For crying out loud, if a couple of guys can collect this amount of evidence in a matter of few days, I'd say there is something wrong with this whole trial.
Actually this video (as some of you would have probably already seen) would be more relevant: especially @4:14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj-KS2kfIr0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I remember that 1994 Steve Jobs interview when he basically admits he steals ideas, but that was when Apple were really struggling so didn't have investors and shareholders that would have shot him in the kneecaps if he said the same thing recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
---------- Post added at 01:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 AM ----------
caslca said:
Just makes you wonder how can the Samsung lawyers let this charade go this far! For crying out loud, if a couple of guys can collect this amount of evidence in a matter of few days, I'd say there is something wrong with this whole trial.
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American courts, American company.
Do you think Johnny Foreigner is ever gonna get a fair trial against a huge American company like Apple? I mean big business always funds election campaigns over there so companies like Apple have basically bought shares in USA plc.
caslca said:
Just makes you wonder how can the Samsung lawyers let this charade go this far! For crying out loud, if a couple of guys can collect this amount of evidence in a matter of few days, I'd say there is something wrong with this whole trial.
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Click to collapse
The lawyers are horrible. It is easy to defend that. All they need is to get a hand on any documents that show Apple researching Windows OS because everyone knows everyone, including Apple researches other companies.
The recent Samsung documents telling the designers how the Galaxy S should differ from the iPhone are a real blow to the whole case, in my opinion. That's what has to stand the brunt of the attack now.
Also, one of Samsung's documents was rejected by the court. I think they brought it in too late. That's why they leaked it to the public. Ah, Samsung. What are you doing to yourselves?!
Has the whole world gone mad or just America? **** Apple. They will repeat history.. come and go.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
I hate this trial just as much as anyone, but Samsung made absolutely NO effort in differentiating their 1st gen Galaxy S (mainly i9000 model) from the iPhone. The first thought that came into my head when they revealed the phone was "why does it look like an iphone inside and out?" I know the needs to take down Goliath and all, but the first Galaxy S was just downright blatant mirror image of the iPhone...even down to the touchwiz icons and UI.
With that being said, the US patent system needs a complete overhaul to stop these frivolous suits and the Supreme Court needs to set precedence once and for all.
Todays consumer are smart. They know what they are buying. A small boy will differentiate sammy from apple. Grow up apple
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
I hate this trial just as much as anyone, but Samsung made absolutely NO effort in differentiating their 1st gen Galaxy S
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Korean, japanese and russian companies all have the same principle: first copy a device, then optimize and extend it so much with the gained experience that it becomes superior to the original.
The Chinese unfortunately are not quite there yet - mainly due to lack of hightech but it won't be long.
I know the needs to take down Goliath and all, but the first Galaxy S was just downright blatant mirror image of the iPhone
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Sadly only from looks. It was sooooo sloooooow even though it's based on good hardware, mainly because Samsung decided to go with their RFS and other software issues.
For those of you who haven't seen the video
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Click to collapse
The main problem with the video is that they exclude software, where Apple (partially more or less involuntarely since they base on FOSS software) has contributed lots of patches and extensions to existing standards and helped push new ones. Google's Chrome for instance would at least have had a much harder start if not for Apple's Safari and the resulting changes in the Webkit engine.
Apple has definitely made worthwhile contributions to the advancement of technology. For example they may have stolen the mouse from IBM but if they hadn't, IBM probably wouldn't have done anything with it.
These days however they are just plain being lame. Google should sue them for having web search in the safari browser. It's about the same level of idiocy as what Apple have dropped too.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
dr.m0x said:
Apple has definitely made worthwhile contributions to the advancement of technology. For example they may have stolen the mouse from IBM but if they hadn't, IBM probably wouldn't have done anything with it.
These days however they are just plain being lame. Google should sue them for having web search in the safari browser. It's about the same level of idiocy as what Apple have dropped too.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
The universal search patent is especially retarded.
This has always been my bugbear with patent law. Nokia's recent sign up for ms means apple now have legal rights to all of Nokia's patents and are now using Nokia patents against Samsung and htc, and indirectly claiming them as apple's (which from a legal standpoint they are!). However, the simple solution would be to do what LG and Sony already do and that is pay the damned patent license. Yes it increases overall handset cost but not significantly.
It's sad when you consider the patents would have only added on about $5 to the cost of each handset. I doubt anyone would have said "oh man, the s3 is great, but its $5 bucks over my budget".
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
andyl66 said:
Nokia's recent sign up for ms means apple now have legal rights to all of Nokia's patents and are now using Nokia patents against Samsung and htc, and indirectly claiming them as apple's (which from a legal standpoint they are!).
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Wrong. It may very well be the case that Apple are suing over technology that overlaps with others patents, but it should not be doing so because it does not have the right to sue over patents it has licensed from others. From a legal standpoint they are anything but Apple's patents.
Even Intellectual Property licensed with the explicit intention of allowing a third-party to sue over the IP, isn't valid for a suit (big case on that in recent years).
Licensing means I say "Okay you can use my spatula when you need it in exchange for your mother's bra". It doesn't mean if on some other occasion someone else has it you can scream "Thief!! That spatula doesn't belong to you, give it back!" At the end of the day it's still my spatula so I can still give it to whomever else I want, and if someone steals it, that's my concern not yours.
Same thing: the patents are still Nokia's. The absolute best Apple could do is pressure Nokia into suing. You cannot sue on someone else's behalf except in exceptional cases like the would-be plaintiff is under-age, or dead.
Well, whatever the case may be, we all know that Apple is a crap company and it's trying to threaten our beloved Android. I love the fact that Android is open-source. I love the fact that Android-based devices are popping up everywhere. Nikon has made an Android-based camera. Isn't it lovely when all your devices use the same software? Isn't it amazing that we can legally hack these devices and modify them? Thank you Google for being such a friendly company!
This section is for the discussion of the SGS3, not for apple nonsense.
Closed.
Related
I know this isn't a news section, as I have been posting news a lot - but I just love the fact that HTC did this! However, forgive me for my lack of relevance to the Nexus One in this post.
I don't have to time to post the entire article, but here is the link: http://gizmodo.com/5537316/htc-coun...eed&utm_campaign=Feed:+gizmodo/full+(Gizmodo)
Happy days?
Good.
(10 characters)
Eclair~ said:
I know this isn't a news section, as I have been posting news a lot - but I just love the fact that HTC did this! However, forgive me for my lack of relevance to the Nexus One in this post.
I don't have to time to post the entire article, but here is the link: http://gizmodo.com/5537316/htc-coun...eed&utm_campaign=Feed:+gizmodo/full+(Gizmodo)
Happy days?
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Click to collapse
Considering Apple is about 40X larger than HTC, I'm sure Apple is just shivering in their boots. Unless Google goes to bat with HTC, I fear this is going to be a lose-lose situation.
There are a lot of angles and too many unknowns to make much of this now. Down the road things should get interesting.
jlevy73 said:
Considering Apple is about 40X larger than HTC, I'm sure Apple is just shivering in their boots. Unless Google goes to bat with HTC, I fear this is going to be a lose-lose situation.
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Aw, well that sucks.. this thread was quite pointless, this news isn't as interesting as it previously was before. I would rather it be locked, or removed entirely if possible.
As long as this "lose lose situation" doesn't negatively effect Android, I'm fine with however they settle this feud..
Their best defence is a counter suit?
nevermind.....
I'm so happy HTC did this....
Mi|enko said:
Their best defence is a counter suit?
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That's pretty common with suits like this where one party is obviously just taking a shot at a single competitor.
It's basically just a way to point out to Apple that nit-picking enforcement on their entire patent library works both ways and with the number and type of patents that technology companies apply for (tons and generic, respectively), you're bound to be stepping on the toes of someone.
Hopefully both companies will look at the cost it would take to play this out in court, decide to shake hands, drop the lawsuits, and work it out in their licensing offices.
You can bet your ass that none of this will affect any of Apple's iProducts.
binary visions said:
You can bet your ass that none of this will affect any of Apple's iProducts.
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I should remove that from the title, I shouldn't have tried to be so dramatic with the thread name..
Eclair~ said:
I should remove that from the title, I shouldn't have tried to be so dramatic with the thread name..
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Click to collapse
Oh, I wasn't really trying to target the thread title; my point was more that Apple will drop their suit or work out a settlement LONG before they actually go to court over these patent charges if HTC has some valid claims against Apple because it'd be stupid to lose the profit margins on their products over trying to do damage to a competitor.
Their flooding of the market with their products does FAR more damage to the competition than any amount of suing would.
binary visions said:
Oh, I wasn't really trying to target the thread title; my point was more that Apple will drop their suit or work out a settlement LONG before they actually go to court over these patent charges if HTC has some valid claims against Apple because it'd be stupid to lose the profit margins on their products over trying to do damage to a competitor.
Their flooding of the market with their products does FAR more damage to the competition than any amount of suing would.
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Don't you worry about the Thread title, you posted it in General (which in general, Nexus one is still part of HTC and partly concerns it).
Now regarding this, from my side of view (as a paralegal in IP law), HTC actually has a big chance of getting this situation settled, and they can even make some money out of "if ever apple will settle this" which i am sure they will.
In the world of Patents this is how we look at it:
Even if the product of HTC (i.e. first smartphone touchscreen in the U.S. as what they claim to be from T-mobile released in 2002) has not been patented to their rights, but it was publicly published at the time. This can make the apple patent as "invalidated", which apple cannot use to file a lawsuit agaist HTC (basically the case will be dismissed). And this is if HTC proves the USPTO court enough evidence.
Now, i believe HTC has now patents over this touchscreen but not in the U.S. and they are using this to hold off apple importing all their touchscreen based products.
oh man, how i wish we are handling this case!
Most of us are now aware that the sale of Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablets have been blocked in Europe (at least for now) by an injunction in favor of Apple's lawsuit...now it appears they are suing Motorola in Europe as well.
(Source: FOSS)
Can the end of the Xoom in Europe be near at hand?
Read my analysis of the Apple/Samsung situation at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=16511779#post16511779
That's why I bought my wife a xoom now.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
>Can the end of the Xoom in Europe be near at hand?
That'd be true in two months, regardless.
>Read my analysis of the Apple/Samsung situation
Honestly, you're ranting. That's fine, if it makes you feel better, although not sure why you should feel worse. It's big companies fighting it out. Let them.
Give the judge the benefit of the doubt for competence. If the suit was frivolous, Apple wouldn't have secured an injunction. Whatever legal merit the suit has, frankly, we don't know. Getting upset about it doesn't make us understand it any better.
I will never ever purchase an apple product ever
inspiron41 said:
I will never ever purchase an apple product ever
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My rant:
Likewise. I bought the second Gen iPod when they were a decent company. Then they got in their mind that they can take over the world (which they might) but I think that is very indecent to innovation. I have never had such a hatred to one company and always will.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
It's interesting to me how Apple and Apple fanboys tout their products as the best in the world, yet they feel the need to sue every mobile electronics maker in the world.
It's about time Apple tried to sue someone with a strong patent portfolio. As long as Motorola don't roll over, Apple *are* going to get a bloody nose, because suing over patents nowadays seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the merit of your case.
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
e.mote said:
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
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Click to collapse
So you're saying is it would be OK to live in a dictatorship country if it was pretty and had good weather?
Sure Apple makes good products, however there are very good if not better alternatives. Apple improves on one product in the market and makes it incredible. Then other companies start making the products better as well and Apple sues them. Happened to mp3 players and iPods, now happening for tablets and iPads. It hurts innovation and I know Google and Microsoft also sue companies but not as much and not as narrow minded/take over the market mentality that Apple has. Now don't get me wrong I have owned Apple before, and yes their products are well made and innovative. But so are a lot of other brands.
But I do agree on the grander scheme of things if we arn't just talking tech toys that yes it is not a good idea to be narrow minded on anything. I believe that's what you were trying to get at.
e.mote said:
If there's a rant to be made, it's people's propensity to paint things in good/evil terms ("XYZ is EVIL!"), get more partisan ("I hate THEM! They're the ENEMY!"), and become more blindered in their views ("I'll never buy anything from XYZ!"). It's a self-reinforcing cycle.
Obviously, I'm not just talking about something as trivial as whatever brand of tech toys you espouse. The descent to frothing fanaticism is widespread enough that it is damn annoying and frightening at the same time.
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Click to collapse
You are saying this as if it is a new phenomenon.
======short version========
Put simply, it is easier to deal with absolutes and it is easier to convey opinion to others in absolutes.
======long version========
It is human nature to ally with a particular group, society, or set of ideals and denigrate the things that differ from the ideal you are allied with. Countries, religions, sports teams, type of car.... the list is as long as there are comparable objects. It is possible for people to see in shades of right rather than absolutes but this provides no stable platform on which to hang a set of beliefs.
- It is far easier to say "Motorola is incompetent and I will never use them again" than it is to say "Motorola made some serious mistakes with the Xoom but they did do some things right."
- It is easier to say "Motorola is out to screw early Xoom adopters." than it is to say "Motorola is not communicating well with early Xoom adopters."
- It is easier to say "thou shall not kill" than it is to say "thou shall not kill unless it is needed to preserve other life"
- It is easier to say "Other religions are wrong" than it is to say "other religions are different."
- and it is easier to say "Apple is evil" than it is to say "Apple's stance on the similarity between the iPad and Xoom is not reasonable."
Absolutes allow a person to place an idea, group, or company into a position within opinion that requires less thought and little debate. This is comforting to most, requires less consideration, and makes life easier to deal with. The more you deal with a specific idea/group/company the more details you learn and the less likely you are to paint your opinion on the subject with such broad strokes. No one wants to try and know everything in such detail however.
So while it would be better if mankind as a whole took an effort to see the merit in differing opinions on subjects, it is not the nature of man. To try and remove the polarizing nature of the psyche would possibly lead to less conflict but it would also to moral and ethical confusion.
There have been and are individuals who have evolved past this need but those individuals are not common, indeed the most notable have been quite extraordinary.
Here is one take on the patent issue that underlies the various recent legal spats. The commentary delves into more detail than the usual regurgitated pap, and the arguments made are reasonable, at least based on the material as presented.
http://thisismynext.com/2011/08/11/broken-patent-system/
http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and...obile-devices/news/376718/1621537#post1621537
DaniWeb can reveal exactly what it is that Apple thinks Samsung has copied, and we hope you are sitting down because the actual community design images contained within that certification are basic to say the least.
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Click to collapse
so, what do you think is going to happen? i own a xoom and i am planning to buy a new one to my girlfriend but now i am afraid of that samsung and motorola can cut off their support on these devices.. i dont want to own a device which has no support of new updates/market or accesorries ..
besides i am in turkey and my xoom has been boutgh from the usa by the man who has sold it to me.. so i do not have a bill but only a serial number, i can check the warranty from the motorola web page but what is going to happen if they decide to "erase" the samsung galaxy tab 10.1 and motorola xoom from the market and give everyones money back?
_delice_doluca_ said:
so, what do you think is going to happen? i own a xoom and i am planning to buy a new one to my girlfriend but now i am afraid of that samsung and motorola can cut off their support on these devices.. i dont want to own a device which has no support of new updates/market or accesorries ..
besides i am in turkey and my xoom has been boutgh from the usa by the man who has sold it to me.. so i do not have a bill but only a serial number, i can check the warranty from the motorola web page but what is going to happen if they decide to "erase" the samsung galaxy tab 10.1 and motorola xoom from the market and give everyones money back?
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Click to collapse
I don't think you need to worry. Get the Xoom for your girlfriend. If you root it (or even if not) you will continue to have plenty of support for your tablet from this community as well as from Google/Moto. I just think that Apple is not allowed to take over the world. We have to take a stand some time, somewhere.
nooomoto said:
It's interesting to me how Apple and Apple fanboys tout their products as the best in the world, yet they feel the need to sue every mobile electronics maker in the world.
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What is really funny is apple was invented by steve jobs stealing open source programming from someone else, patenting it and putting his name n it, then just having a slick campaign that if u dont buy apple ur not individualistic and being different is cool (as long as it is done in groups...). Then says his product cant be hacked on a tv commercial... Within 48 hours they pulled the commercial because four major hacks came out... So they steal, prey on peoples need to be "cool" and their fear of being hacked... But then turn around and start suing all their competitors. This is not new for them and it is a business tactic now... A pathetic way to slow up progress of their competitors... And their iphone sucks... No expandable memory, no battery pull ability, no open source, poor reception, charges for wifi tethering and it isnt built in, no flash.... Etc etc..
To play on their gay commercials... If you don't have an iphone, well you probably have a better smart phone... Even blackberry and nokia kick iphone ass... Rant over
rockhumper said:
What is really funny is apple was invented by steve jobs stealing open source programming from someone else, patenting it and putting his name n it, then just having a slick campaign that if u dont buy apple ur not individualistic and being different is cool (as long as it is done in groups...). Then says his product cant be hacked on a tv commercial... Within 48 hours they pulled the commercial because four major hacks came out... So they steal, prey on peoples need to be "cool" and their fear of being hacked... But then turn around and start suing all their competitors. This is not new for them and it is a business tactic now... A pathetic way to slow up progress of their competitors... And their iphone sucks... No expandable memory, no battery pull ability, no open source, poor reception, charges for wifi tethering and it isnt built in, no flash.... Etc etc..
To play on their gay commercials... If you don't have an iphone, well you probably have a better smart phone... Even blackberry and nokia kick iphone ass... Rant over
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Though I enthusiastically agree with what you are saying...could I ask you not to use the term "gay" as a negative? I'd go with "To play on their ridiculous/boring/really irritating commercials..."
Anyway...it's FRIDAY!
okantomi said:
Though I enthusiastically agree with what you are saying...could I ask you not to use the term "gay" as a negative? I'd go with "To play on their ridiculous/boring/really irritating commercials..."
Anyway...it's FRIDAY!
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Click to collapse
Totally agree on using better negative terms...I would actually call them "smug and arrogant" more than anything else.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
whenever I see someone with an iphone or ipad, I automatically assume this person is 100% gullible and I can convince them to literally buy ANYTHING as long as I make it sound especially hip.
MitchRapp said:
whenever I see someone with an iphone or ipad, I automatically assume this person is 100% gullible and I can convince them to literally buy ANYTHING as long as I make it sound especially hip.
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That's a pretty extreme statement.
Apple has the best marketing in the tech world. They also have some decent products, with plenty of objective reasons to choose Apple over the alternatives.
However, remember that marketing is simply making people aware of a product and its features.
I find when talking to people that decisions on platform aren't made over which commercial was the coolest, but rather the features and/or familiarity with the brand.
I would argue that very few people are so superficial as to choose a platform based on "hip"-ness.
The real problem here is not Apple. Whatever you think of iOS, they are just a company using every tool at their disposal to succeed. If roles were reversed any company would do the same.
The problem is a hopelessly broken, pitifully antiquated Patent system that allows absurd patents to be approved.
This problem is compounded by the abuse of "patent troll" companies that never developed a technology or released a product, but simply bought patents and create lawsuits.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Apple have won there patent suit against samsung which is due to pay out $1.05 billion.
link
What does this means for android?
A sad day in tech
A monopoly for apple in US?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda app-developers app
yor1001 said:
Apple have won there patent suit against samsung which is due to pay out $1.05 billion.
link
What does this means for android?
A sad day in tech
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Click to collapse
I would think it means almost nothing for android. As far as for Samsung it probably just means more money spent on appeals in court.
JMHO
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium HD app
I'm trying to figure out if this means licensing deals will be worked out now or if features will be stripped from products.
It would kind of suck if zooming on photos and multi-touch is now removed. Combine that with the universal search and I would think we'd all have grounds to get our money back for products not being what we paid for at the time of purchase. Hmmmm.
bbeelzebub said:
I'm trying to figure out if this means licensing deals will be worked out now or if features will be stripped from products.
It would kind of suck if zooming on photos and multi-touch is now removed. Combine that with the universal search and I would think we'd all have grounds to get our money back for products not being what we paid for at the time of purchase. Hmmmm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take comfort in the fact that google wont let those features go without a fight
Sent from my GT-P7500 using xda app-developers app
bbeelzebub said:
I'm trying to figure out if this means licensing deals will be worked out now or if features will be stripped from products.
It would kind of suck if zooming on photos and multi-touch is now removed. Combine that with the universal search and I would think we'd all have grounds to get our money back for products not being what we paid for at the time of purchase. Hmmmm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Current devices will continue to have that functionality. They won't remove it from your product
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
Hopefully Samsung wins on Appeal...
Apple suing to stifle competition is why I looked at Android.
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I think now one thing we can do is go to apple store if we encounter any issues with Galaxy Tab and Galaxy S phones and ask them to fix the damn issue. Let's see if they say that it's not an iPhone or ipad, tell them their bosses at Cupertino think otherwise
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
krips2003 said:
I think now one thing we can do is go to apple store if we encounter any issues with Galaxy Tab and Galaxy S phones and ask them to fix the damn issue. Let's see if they say that it's not an iPhone or ipad, tell them their bosses at Cupertino think otherwise
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
As ridiculous as that seems, I'd think it a good laugh if I saw a dude rock up in an apple store demanding help since the "stolen copied Apple-tech" has a problem.
I'm just glad most of these ridiculous patent wars are in the US only and the rest of us can still enjoy imports without too much hassle.
As far as the patents go, Apple would probably patent the fact that their devices use a battery if they could, its stifling competition to the detriment of all consumers. Competition is healthy and stimulates innovation
Thought this was funny
http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/8/2...dollar-lawsuit-it-is-all-good-advertising-for
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nakedninja42 said:
Thought this was funny
http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/8/2...dollar-lawsuit-it-is-all-good-advertising-for
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
As someone who values an iOS device over Android I guess I'm going to have the unpopular opinion here. But Samsung released a document that told it's employees how they needed to copy the iPhone. I mean come on. Are people that fanboyish that they're just going to ignore this huge piece of evidence? It's literally a guide on how to best copy the iPhone. As someone who's used an iPhone since they came out, used a Galaxy S, Motorola XT860, Galaxy Tab, Galaxy Tab 10.1, HP TouchPad, HTC One S, and currently using a Galaxy S 3 until the new iPhone comes out, I can easily say that I can see how they would think they're copying features.
Looks like I'm not the only one that sees clear violation: http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/25/3267843/apple-vs-samsung-juror-speaks
nop
mick1mouse said:
Every phone manufacturer does an extensive study on their competitors' products.
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Haha there are those rose coloured Android goggles. I've never seen a company break a product down and say "we need to copy these features" like Samsung did.
L33t Masta said:
Haha there are those rose coloured Android goggles. I've never seen a company break a product down and say "we need to copy these features" like Samsung did.
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Click to collapse
Microsoft with Windows, also based on Apple designs. The problem is not the copying of designs (yes its unoriginal, its bad karma, we know) but instead the fact that Apple was able to patent such basic design ideas like a rectangular screen with rounded edges. That technically makes all touchscreen devices and laptop computers infringing devices. The patent office should not have allowed the patents to get approved in the first place. Even though App,e patented the idea, it doesn't mean they were the first to think of it.
Who should hold IP over an idea - the person or persons who thought of it first, or those who filled out the paperwork? Hell, even calculus was thought up by two people at the same time, without knowledge of the other.
Patents like this (if exercised when the devices first started appearing) can only inhibit technological advancement, as it removes competition. Competition fosters growth.
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spitzaf said:
Microsoft with Windows, also based on Apple designs. The problem is not the copying of designs (yes its unoriginal, its bad karma, we know) but instead the fact that Apple was able to patent such basic design ideas like a rectangular screen with rounded edges. That technically makes all touchscreen devices and laptop computers infringing devices. The patent office should not have allowed the patents to get approved in the first place. Even though App,e patented the idea, it doesn't mean they were the first to think of it.
Who should hold IP over an idea - the person or persons who thought of it first, or those who filled out the paperwork? Hell, even calculus was thought up by two people at the same time, without knowledge of the other.
Patents like this (if exercised when the devices first started appearing) can only inhibit technological advancement, as it removes competition. Competition fosters growth.
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Indeed! At to put perspective further, Apple even copied (Xerox) to get where they are. The game is not "who copied who", but rather who gets the patent first.
Apple is playing a dangerous game of "patenting" and sueing everyone. Making the competition unable to input basic idea in their products, I honeslty think it's a matter of time before Apple Gets sued by everyone they've copied over the years, and they copied a lot of people!
L33t Masta said:
As someone who values an iOS device over Android I guess I'm going to have the unpopular opinion here. But Samsung released a document that told it's employees how they needed to copy the iPhone. I mean come on. Are people that fanboyish that they're just going to ignore this huge piece of evidence? It's literally a guide on how to best copy the iPhone. As someone who's used an iPhone since they came out, used a Galaxy S, Motorola XT860, Galaxy Tab, Galaxy Tab 10.1, HP TouchPad, HTC One S, and currently using a Galaxy S 3 until the new iPhone comes out, I can easily say that I can see how they would think they're copying features.
Looks like I'm not the only one that sees clear violation: http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/25/3267843/apple-vs-samsung-juror-speaks
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Copying isn't the real issue, it's the patent office. For example one of the design patents Apple was granted was for a rectangle with rounded corners. I think that anyone that's used a tray in a cafeteria knows that this is a silly patent. Yet Samsung had to defend this in court.
The patent office has publicly stated that they are under budget and overwhelmed with patent applications and that they do little research on prior art these days. They have stated that the will grant patents and let the courts sort it out. This is their way of sending a political message to Washington for more money. What results are judgements like we saw last Friday.
I believe that Samsung took a calculated risk when they copied Apple's alleged patents. They were a distant second place in the phone market behind Apple and saw what was happening to RIM and Nokia. Copying Apple not only thrust Samsung into first place, by a wide margin, it netted them $6 billion. That's a good leverage on the $1B judgement.
In any event, Samsung is now the number one phone maker an the threat of these kinds of lawsuits in the future are minimal since the Samsung products are now superior and we find Apple copying Android.
Gotta wonder about the jury.
Does anyone buying a Samsung tab REALLY think they're buying an iPad?
I'm no Apple basher. Even though I've never used any of their products (other than an Airport Express for my WAP), I'm sure they make great products.
But mistaking a Samsung, or any other, device for an Apple device?
Really?
Puuuuuuuleeeeeese!
Jacksmyname said:
Gotta wonder about the jury.
Does anyone buying a Samsung tab REALLY think they're buying an iPad?
I'm no Apple basher. Even though I've never used any of their products (other than an Airport Express for my WAP), I'm sure they make great products.
But mistaking a Samsung, or any other, device for an Apple device?
Really?
Puuuuuuuleeeeeese!
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Yes, the awards by the jury presumed EVERY Samsung phone purchased was a lost sale for Apple. My understanding is that this decision alone is grounds for appeal.
Must Watch...!!!
This was extracted from TED talks.
Jacksmyname said:
But mistaking a Samsung, or any other, device for an Apple device?
Really?
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I've been saying this along, does Apple think its customer base is not smart enough to differentiate between Apple and Samsung products? "Oh NOOOOs I just bought a Samsung when I thought I was getting the iPhone!" The entire design patent is a joke, next lawsuit is against Applebees for using similar name and rectangle tables with rounded edges!
I'm not a fanboi, I just hate stupidity!
http://mashable.com/2012/08/25/verdict-benefit-samsung-apple/
What do ya'll think? Does this make you think twice about any purchase's you make??
boom boom pow!
samsung must learn the lesson...
"invent uniquely"
That actually makes a lot of sense, 1 billion dollars isn't much considering how many phones Sammy sold/will sell on the back of emulating apple.
Best advertising campaign indeed, people will now see that apple are bending them over and banging them without even having the courtesy of using lube when it comes to price.
I kinda knew that somehow apple would be their own downfall and it will be something like this, there is always a case of being too smart for your own good.
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Makes total sense.
Apple accuses Samsung of patent infringing features and designs. Meaning you pay less for the same if you go with Samsung. And another thing brought to mind is Apple obviously didn't care to much about the said patents, they settled for 1.05 BILLION dollars, meaning Samsung doesn't have to change a damn thing.
Like the article says “Best billion dollar ad campaign Samsung ever had.”
IMHO the patents at question are generic to almost ALL mobile OS's, just Samsung can execute much better than any other company and Apple saw them as a threat so the only logical way to go about it was a lawsuit...
My advice to Samsung though, break contract with Apple and quit making iPhone parts! =P
Cdjones187 said:
Makes total sense.
Apple accuses Samsung of patent infringing features and designs. Meaning you pay less for the same if you go with Samsung. And another thing brought to mind is Apple obviously didn't care to much about the said patents, they settled for 1.05 BILLION dollars, meaning Samsung doesn't have to change a damn thing.
Like the article says “Best billion dollar ad campaign Samsung ever had.”
IMHO the patents at question are generic to almost ALL mobile OS's, just Samsung can execute much better than any other company and Apple saw them as a threat so the only logical way to go about it was a lawsuit...
My advice to Samsung though, break contract with Apple and quit making iPhone parts! =P
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Oh I'm sure Samsung was just waiting for your advice before they made their next move. Finally
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1 billion is all what apple can get! what else? they have nothing left in their pocket to accuse samsung...
Samsung has already changed their hardware and software design starting from s3.. Apart from the software patents nothing is going to hurt samsung.
Apple dug its own grave
Cdjones187 said:
My advice to Samsung though, break contract with Apple and quit making iPhone parts! =P
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No they should not. Keep in mind that Samsung now earns on both their own phones and iPhones, this is business and business is about squeezing out every last dime.
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Cdjones187 said:
Makes total sense.
Apple accuses Samsung of patent infringing features and designs. Meaning you pay less for the same if you go with Samsung. And another thing brought to mind is Apple obviously didn't care to much about the said patents, they settled for 1.05 BILLION dollars, meaning Samsung doesn't have to change a damn thing.
Like the article says “Best billion dollar ad campaign Samsung ever had.”
IMHO the patents at question are generic to almost ALL mobile OS's, just Samsung can execute much better than any other company and Apple saw them as a threat so the only logical way to go about it was a lawsuit...
My advice to Samsung though, break contract with Apple and quit making iPhone parts! =P
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Apple didn't settle for anything. Samsung made offers but Apple took it all the way to trial. The jury awarded 1.05 billion didn't they? Im not that familiar with patent law in the US, but it seems like they've been awarded that amount and it's tough **** if they don't like it.
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---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------
Cdjones187 said:
My advice to Samsung though, break contract with Apple and quit making iPhone parts! =P
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That's really bad advice. You might as well tell Apple to stop selling iPods. Selling components is one of Samsungs main businesses, they're obviously not going to stop doing that for one of their main customers.
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I agree that 1 bil $ is too low. Samsung came from nowhere to the top by copying Apple products. They made tens of billions on phones that look exacly like iPhones while their competitors like HTC and Motorola struggled trying to market their not-copied original designs. This is just a slap on the wrist. The verdict should have at least been for 20 bil $ in my opinion.
aydc said:
I agree that 1 bil $ is too low. Samsung came from nowhere to the top by copying Apple products. They made tens of billions on phones that look exacly like iPhones while their competitors like HTC and Motorola struggled trying to market their not-copied original designs. This is just a slap on the wrist. The verdict should have at least been for 20 bil $ in my opinion.
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Samsung became top smartphone company because they wasnt sleeping and was giving latest/best hardware smartphones not because "copying" apple..... ^^
EdgaBimbam said:
Samsung became top smartphone company because they wasnt sleeping and was giving latest/best hardware smartphones not because "copying" apple..... ^^
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Yep.. totally agree with you.
Samsung's main strategy is marketing. Here in India if you enter a mobile store the first thing they show is a Samsung phone in your budget. They do the same for television sets and refrigerators.
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How many iPhones and ipads have sold in the last few Years? To which Samsung supply chips for both, pretty sure the 1+bn dollar would have nearly been paid by apple them selves.
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aydc said:
They made tens of billions on phones that look exacly like iPhones
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You mean rectangular phones with a screen? Car manufacturers make billions as well using the round wheel on their cars instead of developing some other shape. And why is that? Because it's the most optimal shape. Tell me how to make a touchscreen phone without using a rectangular shape with a large screen covering most of the phone.
The problem in this case is apple getting a patent on a god damn generic thing. You wouldn't let someone patent the wheel would you? It's the same ****ing thing.
But yeah, nothing would please me more than this lawsuit blowing up in apples face.
Apoxx said:
You mean rectangular phones with a screen? Car manufacturers make billions as well using the round wheel on their cars instead of developing some other shape. And why is that? Because it's the most optimal shape. Tell me how to make a touchscreen phone without using a rectangular shape with a large screen covering most of the phone.
The problem in this case is apple getting a patent on a god damn generic thing. You wouldn't let someone patent the wheel would you? It's the same ****ing thing.
But yeah, nothing would please me more than this lawsuit blowing up in apples face.
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The galaxy S2 and S3 don't look like iPhones, but the original galaxy S looks near identical to the iPhone. Samsung themselves have proved its possible not to copy.
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even a five year old knows what the difference between a galaxy s and iphone , seriously if any company wants to copy a iphone , lol mold it into a exact replica of it , why bother to add two extra capacitive buttons on it
Well i remember going into an O2 shop with my daughter who was 10 at the time, and she picked up the galaxy s and said wow Samsung are making an iphone.......
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I think that Samsung infringed on Apple patents but that those patents were invalid. The jury were given a questionnaire that first set out whether those patents were infringed and then they were asked to discuss whether those patents were valid.. it's seems pretty backward to discuss it like that and I believe that the jury went in with prejudice that the patents were already valid without exploring the matter in more detail.
If you were reading into the trial, you would be more inclined to believe that there was substantial evidence of prior art for most if not all of Apple's patents.
Samsung didn't grow by copying Apple but by offering choice to consumers by flooding the market with differently model tiers and designs. The top tier of Galaxy phones sell well but only make up a fraction of Samsung mobile's sales.
hboos said:
I think that Samsung infringed on Apple patents but that those patents were invalid. The jury were given a questionnaire that first set out whether those patents were infringed and then they were asked to discuss whether those patents were valid.. it's seems pretty backward to discuss it like that and I believe that the jury went in with prejudice that the patents were already valid without exploring the matter in more detail.
If you were reading into the trial, you would be more inclined to believe that there was substantial evidence of prior art for most if not all of Apple's patents.
Samsung didn't grow by copying Apple but by offering choice to consumers by flooding the market with differently model tiers and designs. The top tier of Galaxy phones sell well but only make up a fraction of Samsung mobile's sales.
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Exactly, I disagree with Samsung getting to number 2 by copying. I think they earned it fair and square.
Apple's retaliation at loosing out on sales to companies which are making better phones than theirs. Seriously Apple, make a more OS unrestricted phone and people may just come back to you.
IOS is dated and too restrictive compared to Android. And people have woken up to this a long time before the 4S was introduced. Apple = sore loosers
peteri8706 said:
IOS is dated and too restrictive compared to Android. And people have woken up to this a long time before the 4S was introduced. Apple = sore loosers
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Apple is loosing appeal. Many collegues of mine asked me info about SGS [ 2 | 3] because they were grown tired of iPhone and iOS... here and there I read, expecially among fashion/rich youngsters, iPhone isn't cool anymore; reasons are questionable but who really cares?
Anyway there will always be iOS users and fanboys and it must be this way. We need competition to have always a better OS.
About the lawsuit... Samsung copied the whole first wave design and it gaines success only for that. The first SGS, at launch, had very bad performance due to the terrible file-system used. So the lawsuit was lecit.
The real earthquake was SGS2 with its unmatched -among Androids- fluidity... its design was vaguely inspired to iPhone, but not the key to success.
Too bad no one of the jury debated the rightfulness of those patents :\
This is on a few sites.......again its more same old but its all nice and very clear.
http://9gag.com/gag/5195630
This has already been posted at least once on this very forum page!
Secondly do you really think your smarter than a bunch of higher paid, highly successful lawyers, they would have seen all this and if they didn't choose to use it in court they would have had a very good reason for it.
(p.s. I am a lawyer and I hate it when others think they can to do my job better than me )
Now that's one touchy mother. He wasn't insulting anyone, sheesh
Yikes!
Hello, yeah I would like a taxi please for a XDA member.
Can I book it under the name Mr Attitude, yeah its just the one.....going to Thinks Highly Of Himself Street.
Joking aside, I guess there is loads of this on here but I care not to search through them all.
Will leave it at that, if no replies will take post down.
PS
Could you have not gone and given them a hand
Lennyuk said:
This has already been posted at least once on this very forum page!
Secondly do you really think your smarter than a bunch of higher paid, highly successful lawyers, they would have seen all this and if they didn't choose to use it in court they would have had a very good reason for it.
(p.s. I am a lawyer and I hate it when others think they can to do my job better than me )
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Ok but I want to know why not use all of this things thei have against them
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Going by what some say the Judge would not allow some picture evidence, not sure what it was.
mariusdroid said:
Ok but I want to know why not use all of this things thei have against them
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Patent law is a funny thing, especially US patent law. Apple are suing on Patents they have that are granted, not pending, therefore, it doesn't really matter if the product existed before the patent was granted or not. Those respective companies had their time to appeal against the granting of the patent before it was approved and they for what ever reason chose not to.
The only way that they would now be able to 'appeal' against these patents would be to say that the patent was negligently approved in the first place, this is a whole different legal issue and one that in the first instance would not involve Apple but the Patent Office.
voodoochild2008 said:
This is on a few sites.......again its more same old but its all nice and very clear.
http://9gag.com/gag/5195630
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From what I have read they used all those, but the dumb patent office in the US awarded Apple the patents, and that is what the jury of home boys voted on, even though prior use and art existed. If sanity prevails as the US patent office re evaluates these patents they will get dismissed. It is the only way to end this crap and move on, and for the US system to prove it works fair on the international stage. With regards to Google, maybe the concept was borrowed from Apple for Android but someone wrote the code and designed the UI that frankly bears no resemblance to IOS. Man has always got inspiration from others thats how we move on. Apple are scared stiff of Microsoft vs Apple all over again. Until the patents are nullified or amended, the likes of Samsung will just change a few things as they have with the S3. 2 thumbs and tilt to zoom. one thumb tilt to pan, bounce effect replaced with blue glow.
I know its so messed up over there, I don’t know if other countries are as bad.
Korea gave them both a slap on the wrist, UK was not having any of it, America 1 billion and change.
Other companies should have stepped up and questioned what Apple was doing, maybe the people who get paid the high money dropped the ball on this, either way I just hope they can get something out of all that talk about the trial and the mistakes made during it.
Think the best one was one guy saying they made their mind up on day one, he then goes on to say they took the full amount of time before making the decision.
Its funny in some ways this will cost Apple, even more so if they dont have the tech.
Samsung and others will need to up the game, make bigger changes to get round the US law, we know Samsung has the tech waiting to go and yet like most companies they give it to you bit by bit each year.
Now as other companies make changes this will in turn force Apple to keep up, no longer able to give out last years model with a few slight changes.
As posted the picture evidence i understand was to late for inclusion in the case .
This post is not copyrighted or patented .
jje
Lennyuk said:
Patent law is a funny thing, especially US patent law. Apple are suing on Patents they have that are granted, not pending, therefore, it doesn't really matter if the product existed before the patent was granted or not. Those respective companies had their time to appeal against the granting of the patent before it was approved and they for what ever reason chose not to.
The only way that they would now be able to 'appeal' against these patents would be to say that the patent was negligently approved in the first place, this is a whole different legal issue and one that in the first instance would not involve Apple but the Patent Office.
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The US patent system is broken! A patent should not be granted if it already existed in the market.
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CuBz90 said:
The US patent system is broken! A patent should not be granted if it already existed in the market.
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yes, but that is an issue for another day, doesn't matter how or why it was granted, the fact in this particular case is that a patent (or patents) was (were) granted and apple are suing on them.
The Jury had a Maximum Bias mode on, doubt it would matter
http://gizmodo.com/5938219/why-the-apple-v-samsung-ruling-may-not-hold-up
Anyway, instead of innovating apple just copy pastes the same device while trying to slow down others and keep the applebois proud. yawn..
Well I hope other countries see how wrong America is, not so much on this case as its done/almost done now, I mean for the future and how the system over there is holding back others all because there is a very vague patent on something that makes inventing anything new like walking through a mine field.
S1 1ghz 5mp camera 720p recording 4inch screen.512 ram
S2 1.2ghz dual core 8mp camera 1080p recording 4.3 inch screen.1gig ram.
S3 1.4ghz quad core 8pm camera 1080p recording 4.8 inch screen.1 gig ram.
Iphone 620mhz no camera 3.5 inch screen..128 ram.
Iphone 3g 620mhz.2mp camera vga recording.3.5 inch screen.128 ram.
Iphone 3gs 833mhz.3mp camera vga recording 3.5 inch screen.256 ram
Iphone 4 1ghz.5mp camera..720p recording 3.5 inch screen.512 ram.
Iphone 4s 1ghz.dual core.8mp camera 1080p recording 3.5 inch screen.512 ram.
It took them 5 phones to make these changes, they went form a 620mhz cpu to 1ghz dual core.
From no camera to 8mp 1080p recording.
From 128ram to 512ram.
And from a 3.5 inch screen to a..................well 3.5inch screen.
I know its all been said but to me this is not a big leap over 5 years, Samsung has done more over 3 years.
Lennyuk said:
yes, but that is an issue for another day, doesn't matter how or why it was granted, the fact in this particular case is that a patent (or patents) was (were) granted and apple are suing on them.
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Yes, but if the Patents wouldn't have been wrongly granted in the first place then this wouldn't have happened. This wouldn't be allowed here in the UK.
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The Korean electronic manufacturers have a reputation for copying others hard work and research and then producing something similar more cheaply. This is an art they have done exceptionally well at. In more recent years, they have actually innovated rather than just copy.
Nevertheless, the root of the issues with Apple, are about things that should not be patented in the first place. It has got so silly, and I have no idea how this ever gets reversed. However, the key for court cases has to be, very simply, "did the other party achieve a market share through the use of that patent?". If double tapping the screen to zoom in makes Samsung more phone sales, then although the patent is stupid, it is permissable under US law to prosecute. But for any fine, it HAS to be relative to the loss of market share of that patent and that is where the focus of any decision needs to be.
You can be sure Samsung has the very best lawyers. But they are working in a biased country. If the jury consists of US citizens, where Apple is an American company, and Samsung is Korean, then how on Earth can it be impartial or non-biased? This is nothing to do with being racially descriminative, this is purely about patriotism. Hopefully a US judge can see past that in any appeal and over-ride any decision.
Lennyuk said:
This has already been posted at least once on this very forum page!
Secondly do you really think your smarter than a bunch of higher paid, highly successful lawyers, they would have seen all this and if they didn't choose to use it in court they would have had a very good reason for it.
(p.s. I am a lawyer and I hate it when others think they can to do my job better than me )
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You're way too serious
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jonstatt said:
The Korean electronic manufacturers have a reputation for copying others hard work and research and then producing something similar more cheaply. This is an art they have done exceptionally well at. In more recent years, they have actually innovated rather than just copy.
Nevertheless, the root of the issues with Apple, are about things that should not be patented in the first place. It has got so silly, and I have no idea how this ever gets reversed. However, the key for court cases has to be, very simply, "did the other party achieve a market share through the use of that patent?". If double tapping the screen to zoom in makes Samsung more phone sales, then although the patent is stupid, it is permissable under US law to prosecute. But for any fine, it HAS to be relative to the loss of market share of that patent and that is where the focus of any decision needs to be.
You can be sure Samsung has the very best lawyers. But they are working in a biased country. If the jury consists of US citizens, where Apple is an American company, and Samsung is Korean, then how on Earth can it be impartial or non-biased? This is nothing to do with being racially descriminative, this is purely about patriotism. Hopefully a US judge can see past that in any appeal and over-ride any decision.
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LOL
Patriotism.
Enviado do meu GT-I9300
Lennyuk said:
This has already been posted at least once on this very forum page!
Secondly do you really think your smarter than a bunch of higher paid, highly successful lawyers, they would have seen all this and if they didn't choose to use it in court they would have had a very good reason for it.
(p.s. I am a lawyer and I hate it when others think they can to do my job better than me )
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Click to collapse
You're a lawyer? I would expect more of an intelligent response from a lawyer who is moaning about someone thinking they can do your job better, as well as a far better formed sentence. I mean isn't one of the main points of being a lawyer (or wouldn't that be a solicitor in the UK?) being able to write properly in extensively complex and correct English?
Before you go *****ing about how my English isn't all that - I'm not the one claiming to be a lawyer in a most unbelievable manner...
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