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Apple did a good job selling it's next product, as usual. it announced a product and with it a firm release date in the very near future.
In contrast, Google screwed up the FroYo release as much as they possibly can. Google I/O announced FroYo on May 20th, with no firm date for release. That was just a few days short of three weeks ago.
Okay, so I am not worried about it to the point that I am ready to go all iPhone on your butts, I am just pointing out that Google has a lot to learn about rolling out a product.
They absolutely do.
Google is acting like a bunch of freaking amateurs.
I'm not the least bit interested in the iPhone, but I am jealous that they guys running Apple seem more professional and capable than do the folks running Google/Android.
It's embarrassing.
attn1 said:
Apple did a good job selling it's next product, as usual. it announced a product and with it a firm release date in the very near future.
In contrast, Google screwed up the FroYo release as much as they possibly can. Google I/O announced FroYo on May 20th, with no firm date for release. That was just a few days short of three weeks ago.
Okay, so I am not worried about it to the point that I am ready to go all iPhone on your butts, I am just pointing out that Google has a lot to learn about rolling out a product.
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Click to collapse
+1
Honestly, I feel the same way. Google I/O was great, but it was all just fluff. We didn't get anything solid. Nothing. Google can take some lessons here about giving people something they can hold on too. "Few Weeks" is not enough. I think one of the main reasons that people aren't out in front of Google with pitch forks and torches is that they "leaked" a 2.2 early release so we have a taste of it and something to play with.
All in all, I agree with you 100%, Google has a lot to learn.
On the flip side -
Apple introduced iAds today like they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, hold the phone (lousy pun intended - deal), those little banners consume data. No biggie data is unlimit- whoa wait. Not it's not. Not anymore on Apple's carrier of choice in the USA.
I don't care how little data those little banners use - to promote a system that not only allows their use but encourages it at the expense of a user locked into a tiered data plan is reprehensible. Does anyone else see an ethical problem with this?
Then there is the practical issue - a user is at the hairy edge of his allotment without buying more data - well except for those pesky little banners that put him over the top. Nice job, Steve Jobs, you butthole.
Likewise, I think any Android PAID app should have all ad banners removed. I know this is a common practice, but it should be a rule. No app with banners should be available at all without a paid counterpart without banners, IMO.
Well sure we don't have a solid release date yet... but we also get more updates then 1 per year. Think on the bright side. At least Froyo 2.2 is already out, if not officially. I don't understand your complaining. Android can already do what the iPhone is just not catching up to.
If our Androids ran on Apple time... we wouldn't see 2.2 until next January. Again, be happy you don't have to wait that long. Be lucky we get what we get. Plus 2.1 runs great anyway.
player911 said:
we wouldn't see 2.2 until next January. .
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at the rate Google is going.....
player911 said:
Well sure we don't have a solid release date yet... but we also get more updates then 1 per year. Think on the bright side. At least Froyo 2.2 is already out, if not officially. I don't understand your complaining. Android can already do what the iPhone is just not catching up to.
If our Androids ran on Apple time... we wouldn't see 2.2 until next January. Again, be happy you don't have to wait that long. Be lucky we get what we get. Plus 2.1 runs great anyway.
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No, not complaining, stating some facts.
Apple = Solid release dates announced
Google = Vague mentions to releases that are coming "soon".
What should Google do? Follow the Apply model? Announce it 4 months ago, which is what Apple did, then wait until you release a new phone (which actually have hard dates) to launch the new OS... so if Google did this, we would be waiting until the Nexus2 to get FroYo. Sounds great guys! Not...
Take a nap or something.
pjcforpres said:
What should Google do? Follow the Apply model? Announce it 4 months ago, which is what Apple did, then wait until you release a new phone (which actually have hard dates) to launch the new OS... so if Google did this, we would be waiting until the Nexus2 to get FroYo. Sounds great guys! Not...
Take a nap or something.
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Click to collapse
They should have STFU until they had a hard release date.
Period.
And they sure as hell shouldn't have released it to the freaking press who didn't pay a dime for their Nexus.
Old MuckenMire said:
They should have STFU until they had a hard release date.
Period.
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Click to collapse
Stop whining please.
It makes the rest of us Nexus One owners look bad.
Talderon said:
No, not complaining, stating some facts.
Apple = Solid release dates announced
Google = Vague mentions to releases that are coming "soon".
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Click to collapse
Simple facts...
Apple= Announcing new phone!
Google= Software update
Two different things. Google gave a firm date for the Nexus One.
And when has Apple ever given a firm date for a software update/bug fix? Oh, wait, they haven't... they have only ever given firm dates for new phone releases, and then said the exact same stuff Google has, that the new OS will be available shortly for other models.
ap3604 said:
Stop whining please.
It makes the rest of us Nexus One owners look bad.
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Click to collapse
Dude you're responsible for yourself. I'm not going to shut up because you are insecure.
player911 said:
Well sure we don't have a solid release date yet... but we also get more updates then 1 per year. Think on the bright side. At least Froyo 2.2 is already out, if not officially. I don't understand your complaining. Android can already do what the iPhone is just not catching up to.
If our Androids ran on Apple time... we wouldn't see 2.2 until next January. Again, be happy you don't have to wait that long. Be lucky we get what we get. Plus 2.1 runs great anyway.
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I am just saying that Apple has their act together when it comes to product launches. Google does not. People had a much better understanding of what's coming and when with Apple's Keynote than they did at Google's. It left a lot less speculation and release anxiousness on the table. That makes for happier customers.
No doubt I'd rather be using the version of FroYo we are already looking at than iOS4. That wasn't my point.
Since Apple is now in the ad business (some vague 60% number thrown out there), why not get into the hardware business google?
HTC is a good manufacturer but lacks the innovation needed. Sony designs well but moves at a snails pace and makes horrible decisions.
....10char
Old MuckenMire said:
Dude you're responsible for yourself.
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Very true. And on the flip side of that - Your responsible for yourself as well. So act like an adult instead of getting everyone tense on the forum with childish behavior.
I wouldn't be upset really. Tom Petty did say it best when he said "waiting is the hardest part". However if Froyo isn't finished, then we need to sit back and chill for a little while longer. I would be really mad if we get it (example) July 4th weekend and absolutely nothing has been added or changed.
Looks like we are all in wait and see mode..
Google needs to get it's act together on android. Microsoft is going to come after them, not apple not RIM. Microsoft and Google are aiming for OEMs and OEMs have already complained about google's way of releasing android updates.
I was shocked when Andy Rubin said that they don't have road-maps for version release. Google needs to look at Mozilla for their planning.
ap3604 said:
Very true. And on the flip side of that - Your responsible for yourself as well. So act like an adult instead of getting everyone tense on the forum with childish behavior.
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Rather than try and start a flame war, just post your opinion like I did and move one. If you cannot handle an opposing opinion, the internet may not be for you. If you're getting tense reading my posts, take a valium, but I will post any way I want(within forum rules of course).
attn1 said:
piss off, pantload.
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It's ok attn1... I know if I was always screaming "the sky is falling the sky is falling" about the release of Froyo I'd be a little tense too
Originally Posted by BlueScreen
HTC, Sprint, and Google hope you are enjoying the latest update to a device that set the standard for all mobile devices to follow nearly a year ago(EVO 4G). Important to note that a water down version of Gingerbread be introduced first because of EVO 4G mass popularity. Functionaliity had to be first and for most. Repeating mistakes made by other carriers was not going to be acceptable by the EVO community. This update addresses some of the pressing concerns by the EVO community. Once we are satisfied no major issues are associated with current upgrade we will proceed with 2.3.4 If no major issues other than Netflix you can expect June 9th 2.3.4 OTA update.
2.3.4 will include:
1) Landscape for home screen
2) Gingerbread keyboard option
3) Further performance improvements
4) Video chat (Google)
5) Sense UI update
Like EVO 3D we are listening to what the expectations are from the community.
BSOD
P.S. Netflix will be updated and streaming ASAP as this issue is being resolved. Expect an update with in 24hrs at the latest Monday June 6th.
^^^^^^ that would be awesome!!!!
nasseem said:
Originally Posted by BlueScreen
^^^^^^ that would be awesome!!!!
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Yeah! That would be! So would unicorns!
the non-flaming version: who the hell is BlueScreen? And why should I care?
(edit: I remember that guy now, bah. that guy will say anything to get a rise.)
(EDIT/PS, I do appreciate the OP posting the info, I don'r go to the site he posts on. So a thanks to you. Not actually bashing you.)
That's good news... if it's true. thanks for the info.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
i dont believe one word of it. sorry
billbowers said:
That's good news... if it's true. thanks for the info.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i seem to recall this bluescreen guy making numerous "predictions" that seem to always fall through and he comes up with some excuse like, "they used a different test device than mine" blah blah blah yet people still buy it and believe him for some unknown reason.
edit" like this BS "insider info" http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-3d/302508-evo-4g-successor-evo-3d-bsod-thread.html what a tool, please if you have a shred of intelligence, you will not believe a word of this unless it comes from a more reliable source
i hope its true
would be great. but im about 99.9% sure this is BS.
why is everyone so negative (or at least people who decide to comment). This post is for people who want the update, not people who want to bash our phones' manufacturer.
You need to realize that we don't have the only phone that hTc makes, and from what I hear about older hTc phones, they are keeping us way more updated than their older phones and just about every other phone on the market (with the exception of the nexus, for obvious reasons).
Just take the news, whether you choose to believe it or not, and enjoy your day. We don't need all of this bashing crap.
I'll step down from my soapbox now...
The update will be awesome. It sounds right on track from an email that I got from hTc that said they should have the update by the end of the second quarter, which is June. So, I hope it is true.
I also hope that they fix the bluetooth stack (Wiimote) so that I can get off of CM and back to Sense
I see he's moved over here from another forum.....smh
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
The spelling and grammar were the most convincing parts IMHO!
Seriosly tho, I would guess no sense update or 2.3.4 until post Evo/Sensation launch. Why cannibalize your own sales?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
FattySparks said:
why is everyone so negative (or at least people who decide to comment). This post is for people who want the update, not people who want to bash our phones' manufacturer.
I'll step down from my soapbox now...
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Click to collapse
so you're saying that we should never call out what is likely total BS, from a known BS'er? (BSOD, not the OP) that people can just post whatever they want, and as long as it's something you want to hear, if we disagree, we are "negative"?
as far as I know, part of the function of this XDA community is to provide good information, and point out things that are rumor at best, complete horseshite more often than not.
i'd rather not come to June 9th, and have people actually wonder why BSODs "information" didn't happen.
Well, for me is not make sense that they released a new update yesterday and them release another one on june 9.
I don't take anything this dude says serious.
Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk
If it was true that would be awesome. But until then I'm not holding my breath,We already have sweet roms in the dev section anyway..
Sent from my Synergy Powered EVO
it would be sweet if the update could be rooted. then with a stable gb core combines with the devs that come up with awesome roms - perfect.
cos now i like a lot of others are stuck.
regards,
asmd.
nasseem said:
Originally Posted by BlueScreen
HTC, Sprint, and Google hope you are enjoying the latest update to a device that set the standard for all mobile devices to follow nearly a year ago(EVO 4G). Important to note that a water down version of Gingerbread be introduced first because of EVO 4G mass popularity. Functionaliity had to be first and for most. Repeating mistakes made by other carriers was not going to be acceptable by the EVO community. This update addresses some of the pressing concerns by the EVO community. Once we are satisfied no major issues are associated with current upgrade we will proceed with 2.3.4 If no major issues other than Netflix you can expect June 9th 2.3.4 OTA update.
2.3.4 will include:
1) Landscape for home screen
2) Gingerbread keyboard option
3) Further performance improvements
4) Video chat (Google)
5) Sense UI update
Like EVO 3D we are listening to what the expectations are from the community.
BSOD
P.S. Netflix will be updated and streaming ASAP as this issue is being resolved. Expect an update with in 24hrs at the latest Monday June 6th.
^^^^^^ that would be awesome!!!!
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Click to collapse
um... is this guy saying that that is what officials are saying... or just his words? looks to me like nothing official... here's why:
HTC, Sprint, and Google hope you are enjoying the latest update to a device that set the standard for all mobile devices to follow nearly a year ago(EVO 4G)....... Functionaliity had to be first and for most.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct grammar: "HTC, Sprint, and Google; 'Hope you are enjoying the latest update to a device that set the standard for all mobile device industries to follow nearly a year ago(EVO 4G)........ Functionaliity has to be first and foremost'."
That's just a few of the instant 'red flags'.... I would say not legit.
2.3.4 before the 3D seems like an unwise move from a marketing stand point, especially with 3D coming out. Then again, the biggest allure besides GB is 3D, processing power, and Sense 3, so maybe an immidiate update is not as crazy as we think.
Still, I wouldn't bet on it.
XDA App - EVO - 2.3 unrooted. Help!
FattySparks said:
why is everyone so negative (or at least people who decide to comment). This post is for people who want the update, not people who want to bash our phones' manufacturer.
You need to realize that we don't have the only phone that hTc makes, and from what I hear about older hTc phones, they are keeping us way more updated than their older phones and just about every other phone on the market (with the exception of the nexus, for obvious reasons).
Just take the news, whether you choose to believe it or not, and enjoy your day. We don't need all of this bashing crap.
I'll step down from my soapbox now...
The update will be awesome. It sounds right on track from an email that I got from hTc that said they should have the update by the end of the second quarter, which is June. So, I hope it is true.
I also hope that they fix the bluetooth stack (Wiimote) so that I can get off of CM and back to Sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think the conversation may have went a bit over your head and ability to comprehend. no one was "bashing" htc but bsod. he is a know bull**** slinger. this "info" is just more made up bs, it is NOT info from htc or google but from some pompous attention whore
HTC announced the June 6th update. Why not announce the June 9th update....makes no sense- literaly. But thanks for the info OP.
via EVO.
lol...
Sent from my Evo using XDA Premium App
Just saw this article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...d-Google-cancel-Nexus-Prime-phone-launch.html
Wonder why they are delaying? Perhaps it's just not ready?! I was pretty anxious for announce
is this being reported anywhere else? the article cites no source.
austin420 said:
is this being reported anywhere else? the article cites no source.
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http://moconews.net/article/419-ice...-google-and-samsung-delay-nexus-prime-launch/
http://phandroid.com/2011/10/07/ice-cream-sandwich-and-nexus-prime-announcement-reportedly-delayed/
http://www.tekgadg.com/tekgadg/2011/9/19/nexus-prime-delayed-till-december-molly-wood-says.html
Many think it's out of respect for Steve Jobs. He might have his funeral around that time.
lynyrd65 said:
Many think it's out of respect for Steve Jobs. He might have his funeral around that time.
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Makes sense. Just hope it's not something else. One report is speculating the announce being pushed back to December.
some of articles all link back to this one
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42445/samsung-nexus-prime-launch-pulled
but it states no source either except, "believe us or else". although im not saying its not true, no one has cited a source.
engadget also has the news including company statement
http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/07/samsung-and-google-postpone-ice-cream-sandwich-and-galaxy-nexus/
Talk about disappointment!
-- update --
people are saying it's out of respect for Jobs..that makes sense.
Google's CEO worked on Apples board so it's out if respect for Steve Jobs & they didn't want to destroy the new iPhone 4s with better phone & OS with all its goodies
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
theres now rumor that the new unveiling will be in london on the 27th of oct.
Androidcentral says why:
http://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-officially
Update: Google's explained why the delay. Works for us.
"We believe this is not the right time to announce a new product as the world expresses tribute to Steve Jobs's passing."
Honestly, it makes sense to me and I don't blame them. I'm just happy I got to see a video of it.
I think it's actually a poor business decision. The business of business is business and business is war. Take every opportunity you can get, and they just gave Apple a big one.
I don't see Apple pushing back the iPhone 4S release.
CapsLockKey said:
I don't see Apple pushing back the iPhone 4S release.
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Steve wouldn't want that. Lol. But true about the war. You don't stop. For NOBODY! Lol. Just kiddin. Can't wait for it
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
CapsLockKey said:
I don't see Apple pushing back the iPhone 4S release.
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Click to collapse
1) Lackluster 4S launch.
2) Jobs (R.I.P)
3) Delay release?
It would be too much for Apple fans. Really though, we can only speculate.
CapsLockKey said:
I don't see Apple pushing back the iPhone 4S release.
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This is a valid point. One would think that Apple had some idea that Jobs was on his way out. It did strike me as a bit strange that they announced this lackluster new device and announced the death of their CEO the very next day. I dunno.
So you are saying steve waited until they release his device to die? Or you are saying they waited one day to give the announcement that he die?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
The Nexus was suppose to compete directly with the Iphone 5.
I hear that the Iphone 5 was suppose to have the newer LTE chip which runs cooler and uses less power. My opinion is the Nexus Prime was suppose to compete directly with the iphone 5. If the iphone has the newer chip which is currently being developed it would own the Nexus Prime.
TBH, if Steve Jobs was healthy, would he delay the release of a phone if someone else iconic passed away? Let's say Bill Gates passed away, would Jobs do the same favor? I think not, he would probably do it to steal the thunder.
dead78 said:
This is a valid point. One would think that Apple had some idea that Jobs was on his way out. It did strike me as a bit strange that they announced this lackluster new device and announced the death of their CEO the very next day. I dunno.
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I was just at an AT&T Store, they're going to sell that damn Iphone4S next week, with or without Jobs.
dead78 said:
This is a valid point. One would think that Apple had some idea that Jobs was on his way out. It did strike me as a bit strange that they announced this lackluster new device and announced the death of their CEO the very next day. I dunno.
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Click to collapse
Nothing strange about that. Jobs wasn't in good health at all. The disappointment at the release of the iphone4s instead of the iphone5 was enough to nearly kill HEALTHY Apple nerds.
http://liliputing.com/2011/11/adobe-flash-doesnt-support-android-4-0-yet.html
d1001541 said:
http://liliputing.com/2011/11/adobe-flash-doesnt-support-android-4-0-yet.html
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Click to collapse
Yet!!!!!!!!
I believe the keyword is 'yet'.....
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Flash is a dying breed anyways. Considering the fact that they have canceled development altogether for mobile devices I don't we will ever see an official ICS flash app.
i don't understand what's going to happen to movies in my local news site or reviews on engadget or the best dunks of the week on espn? those aren't disappearing overnight so i think we still need flash at least for a little bit.
morphiend said:
i don't understand what's going to happen to movies in my local news site or reviews on engadget or the best dunks of the week on espn? those aren't disappearing overnight so i think we still need flash at least for a little bit.
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Click to collapse
It will be moved to HTML5 right before your very eyes.
It will happen what is already here for iOS. In flash for desktop and in an Apps for mobile device
Looks like i am not going to upgrade my devices to ICS anytime soon, i use a lot of flash sites.
Well, I know what I'm not installing until Flash is available, if it will be available.
It's already been responded to that flash support will be added for ICS. I'd guess before the first transformer has ICS probably...
ExploreMN said:
It will be moved to HTML5 right before your very eyes.
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I would love to think that was true, but I think not every web will move at once from flash to whatever.
Regards.
johnchad14 said:
It's already been responded to that flash support will be added for ICS. I'd guess before the first transformer has ICS probably...
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Click to collapse
Aye matey.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/21/flash_android_4/
Rome wasn`t built in a day......
ICS will have Flash Support by the end of the year.
Adobe has one last project up their sleeves before they bid mobile Flash adieu: an update that includes support for Ice Cream Sandwich.
Earlier reports mentioned that Google believed Flash support for Android 4.0 was forthcoming, but an Adobe representative has confirmed to Pocket-lint that Ice Cream Sandwich will indeed get Flash support by the end of 2011...
....After that update goes out though, mobile Flash will ride off into the sunset. Adobe made it clear in their announcement that the app would only see security updates and critical bugfixes going forward. With all that manpower freed up, Adobe plans to refocus their mobile efforts on AIR and HTML5, the latter of which they have called “the best solution for creating and deploying content in the browser across mobile platforms.”....
Source: Tech Crunch
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Nice.... Same info from a diff source
Rome wasn`t built in a day......
A little more research goes a long way
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Is it just me, or has the tendency for people to erupt in anger and/or frustration with the first rumor become more prevalent? Seems like people don't have even 5 minutes worth of patience to find out the real story.
I mean, seriously: did anyone really think Google (or Adobe) would let ICS go out the door without Flash support? That they'd drop it JUST LIKE THAT? Come on, get real folks.
wynand32 said:
Is it just me, or has the tendency for people to erupt in anger and/or frustration with the first rumor become more prevalent? Seems like people don't have even 5 minutes worth of patience to find out the real story.
I mean, seriously: did anyone really think Google (or Adobe) would let ICS go out the door without Flash support? That they'd drop it JUST LIKE THAT? Come on, get real folks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I regularly lurk over in apple forums and I don't recall ever seeing the kind of kneejerk reaction there that I see here. After all, apple is perfect. Even if someone starts a rumor that says apple plans to kill 30 million puppies in celebration of the 30 million ipads sold, people over there would still be like "ya, those puppies deserve it!"
Just an observation.
goodintentions said:
I regularly lurk over in apple forums and I don't recall ever seeing the kind of kneejerk reaction there that I see here. After all, apple is perfect. Even if someone starts a rumor that says apple plans to kill 30 million puppies in celebration of the 30 million ipads sold, people over there would still be like "ya, those puppies deserve it!"
Just an observation.
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Click to collapse
True enough, but that's an entirely DIFFERENT phenomenon...
miketoasty said:
Flash is a dying breed anyways. Considering the fact that they have canceled development altogether for mobile devices I don't we will ever see an official ICS flash app.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, but that's not so good if they keep developing for websites, that'll mean we can't use those sites.
wynand32 said:
Is it just me, or has the tendency for people to erupt in anger and/or frustration with the first rumor become more prevalent? Seems like people don't have even 5 minutes worth of patience to find out the real story.
I mean, seriously: did anyone really think Google (or Adobe) would let ICS go out the door without Flash support? That they'd drop it JUST LIKE THAT? Come on, get real folks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want to check out the nexus forum for kneejerk reactions !!!
mind you it was the same on here when the TF was first rolled out and expect the same when the TF Prime arrives !
Is root going to be possible for this phone?
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
gk1984 said:
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
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Thank you for answering I happy to hear it I heard this is great now except for the camera app.
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
gk1984 said:
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
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Click to collapse
Keep in mind, Essential said repeatedly, week after week, while the phone was delayed 90 days beyond when they first said it would be released, that it would be "coming soon."
And they said recently that Oreo would come in the next couple months, which they described as "soon."
And the since it went up in May the website has said that the Stellar Grey and Ocean Depths colors would be "available soon." Even though in the AMA they admitted that they had no idea when those colors would be availalbe and in fact they don't even know how to get ceramic to be those colors, with their attempts so far failing (in other words, they said "available soon" for something they don't actually know how to make).
So Essential's idea of "soon" tends to be months and/or never. And, really, Essential seems to just say "soon" whenever anything is not ready, but they don't want people to go away, so instead they say "soon" to the point of meaninglessness, because they are unable to be honest about what's really going on.
I'm not saying they won't release the kernel source. I'm just saying their promises about when something might happen are empty and "soon" is just used as a delaying tactic.
cb474 said:
Keep in mind, Essential said repeatedly, week after week, while the phone was delayed 90 days beyond when they first said it would be released, that it would be "coming soon."
And they said recently that Oreo would come in the next couple months, which they described as "soon."
And the since it went up in May the website has said that the Stellar Grey and Ocean Depths colors would be "available soon." Even though in the AMA they admitted that they had no idea when those colors would be availalbe and in fact they don't even know how to get ceramic to be those colors, with their attempts so far failing (in other words, they said "available soon" for something they don't actually know how to make).
So Essential's idea of "soon" tends to be months and/or never. And, really, Essential seems to just say "soon" whenever anything is not ready, but they don't want people to go away, so instead they say "soon" to the point of meaninglessness, because they are unable to be honest about what's really going on.
I'm not saying they won't release the kernel source. I'm just saying their promises about when something might happen are empty and "soon" is just used as a delaying tactic.
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Click to collapse
The AMA said "a couple days" so it might be sooner than "soon"
I guess expected to much because Andy Rubin was involved. The whole internet is saying essential was released too soon, that they should have worked out all the bugs first.
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canynballa said:
I guess expected to much because Andy Rubin was involved. The whole internet is saying essential was released too soon, that they should have worked out all the bugs first.
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It really was. That and them being severely understaffed, not a good combination.
What really bugs me is releasing kernel is a matter of a clicking a button and they have yet to click that upload button. Very frustrating. I have tried reaching out to them on Facebook and Twitter but there has been zero word from essential or Andy since the AMA. Their silence is troubling
I had the phone and really like the build quality.
What disappointed me was that no source released, so no customs recovery.
No image so you could return the phone back to stock.
No cases.
I sent it back and will see what V2 looks like.
hellot1M said:
What really bugs me is releasing kernel is a matter of a clicking a button and they have yet to click that upload button. Very frustrating. I have tried reaching out to them on Facebook and Twitter but there has been zero word from essential or Andy since the AMA. Their silence is troubling
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I'm not Android technical but wasn't there mention of proprietary assets mingled it and would need to be removed? Also read somewhere that OnePlus released theirs but it was still hard to create kernels because of the way they released the source. I think it was someone on the AMA thread.
*edit*
C&P from the AMA below. Doesn't specifically mention kernel....
[–]AmirZ 8 points 11 days ago
So, ROM development. Can you commit to releasing ALL of your framework sources like Google does with AOSP and Nexus? One frustration with OnePlus is that their released sources are missing parts and thus work a lot worse than their real OS (OxygenOS).
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[–]EssentialOfficial 13 points 11 days ago
This actually turns out to be really hard technically. We're going to try to do more and more of this over time but ensuring you separate out any close source proprietary bits from the rest, but that things still work well is a big challenge. -Rebecca
flakko86 said:
The AMA said "a couple days" so it might be sooner than "soon"
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Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
gqukyo said:
I'm not Android technical but wasn't there mention of proprietary assets mingled it and would need to be removed? Also read somewhere that OnePlus released theirs but it was still hard to create kernels because of the way they released the source. I think it was someone on the AMA thread.
*edit*
C&P from the AMA below. Doesn't specifically mention kernel....
[–]AmirZ 8 points 11 days ago
So, ROM development. Can you commit to releasing ALL of your framework sources like Google does with AOSP and Nexus? One frustration with OnePlus is that their released sources are missing parts and thus work a lot worse than their real OS (OxygenOS).
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[–]EssentialOfficial 13 points 11 days ago
This actually turns out to be really hard technically. We're going to try to do more and more of this over time but ensuring you separate out any close source proprietary bits from the rest, but that things still work well is a big challenge. -Rebecca
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
cb474 said:
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
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Not good.
cb474 said:
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
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Click to collapse
Gotta have that special sauce... lol
cb474 said:
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol well to look at it in a more positive light, I think the issue is he has a tendency to over promise and leave use twiddling our thumbs. Considering they are a relatively new company and are severely understaffed, the overpromising can be forgiven. However, when missing the said dates, there is barely any follow-up as to why the dates were missed leading to major concern for the customers. I think saying anything is better than silence. Like at least tell us that such and such update promised on such and such date has been moved.
On the plus side, during the AMA, VZW cert was promised and it was certified on the date promised. The recent security patch was released with bug fixes within a day of the Pixel. They have definitely improved thier presence on reddit which I think is a huge plus. They also have said on Twitter a couple hours ago that they are currently working on a Dev page for their website.
https://twitter.com/essential/status/912424863951810560
So calling them dishonest or not honorable or saying they aren't customer friendly I think is a bit of a stretch. I think they are still super swamped after getting knocked down from the initial release and are trying their darndest to get back on their feet so they can stay in the fight. Yes, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt but I think once Essential gets over this initial launch hurdle, promised timings will be a little more "on time" than they currently are.
flakko86 said:
Lol well to look at it in a more positive light, I think the issue is he has a tendency to over promise and leave use twiddling our thumbs. Considering they are a relatively new company and are severely understaffed, the overpromising can be forgiven. However, when missing the said dates, there is barely any follow-up as to why the dates were missed leading to major concern for the customers. I think saying anything is better than silence. Like at least tell us that such and such update promised on such and such date has been moved.
On the plus side, during the AMA, VZW cert was promised and it was certified on the date promised. The recent security patch was released with bug fixes within a day of the Pixel. They have definitely improved thier presence on reddit which I think is a huge plus. They also have said on Twitter a couple hours ago that they are currently working on a Dev page for their website.
https://twitter.com/essential/status/912424863951810560
So calling them dishonest or not honorable or saying they aren't customer friendly I think is a bit of a stretch. I think they are still super swamped after getting knocked down from the initial release and are trying their darndest to get back on their feet so they can stay in the fight. Yes, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt but I think once Essential gets over this initial launch hurdle, promised timings will be a little more "on time" than they currently are.
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That is a more generous way to look at it.
It's true the Verizon thing is the one thing I'm aware of where they made a promise about when something would happen and did it. I didn't say they never kept their promises. I said they have simply failed to keep them just about without exception. They didn't really promise a specific time on the security updates, as far as I'm aware, but it is good that they did it right away. Anyway, there have been so many promises they have not kept that I'm underwhelmed by the one instance where they did.
But, for me, the thing really is they have been called out repeatedly on tech sites and even in the AMA about their promises and not keeping them. Instead of owning up to that, they just do it again. They have been called out even more on how bad the camera is, especially in low light, and how it's inferior hardware can never live up to the hype. And yet to this day their website still says: "That’s why we put so much effort into developing one of the world’s best phone cameras." And: "This results in stunning images that are rich in color and detail, even in low light." (CNET critized them for keeping this on their website.) The camera was also brought up in the AMA. Rubin's response was hand waving jibberish about "computational photography," which is a technical term for bull**** (isn't, after all, all digital photography "computational"). Rubin also said, " We are pretty happy with the hardware design of the camera," even though the inferior sensors they are using was public knowledge by then. Rubin as recently as four days ago claimed in Time Magazine (http://time.com/4950677/andy-rubin-essential-interview/) that the reviewers received phones with incomplete camera software and that caused the problems, but there have been subsequent updates. This was long after the reviews had been out, the updates had been issued, and all the reviewers said it made little to no difference. This is not honesty. That is engaging knowningly in PR bull and trying to obfuscate something.
It's one thing to overpromise. It's another thing to overpromise and when you are called out on it double down on the overpromising. Further, there is zero way that the engineers within the company who worked on the camera didn't know that they were using sensors that are not as good as the best camera phones, so they knowingly claimed to make "one of the world's best phone cameras" when they knew that couldn't be true. They released the phone with that camera anyway, because there was nothing (much) more to be done.
Lastly, yes they are small and overworked. That seems clear. But even here, in promotional events, over and over, they have hyped the fact that being small makes them more effective and efficient, because there are not a lot of layers of bureaucracy to go through to make decisions and get things done. Yet clearly, being small in Essential's case means there are a lot of things they don't have time to do that well (and may never have time). And they have never said, oh, we're small, be patient. They have said over and over, being small makes us better. So if they weren't out there promoting the benefits of being small in contradiction to the reality, it would be easier to forgive them on this account.
When you add it all up, I just don't buy that it comes down to a simple tendency to overpromise. As they say, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think they are being knowingly dishonest or, at best, knowingly engaging in PR misdirection to try to mislead people about problems with the phone and company.
cb474 said:
That is a more generous way to look at it.
It's true the Verizon thing is the one thing I'm aware of where they made a promise about when something would happen and did it. I didn't say they never kept their promises. I said they have simply failed to keep them just about without exception. They didn't really promise a specific time on the security updates, as far as I'm aware, but it is good that they did it right away. Anyway, there have been so many promises they have not kept that I'm underwhelmed by the one instance where they did.
But, for me, the thing really is they have been called out repeatedly on tech sites and even in the AMA about their promises and not keeping them. Instead of owning up to that, they just do it again. They have been called out even more on how bad the camera is, especially in low light, and how it's inferior hardware can never live up to the hype. And yet to this day their website still says: "That’s why we put so much effort into developing one of the world’s best phone cameras." And: "This results in stunning images that are rich in color and detail, even in low light." (CNET critized them for keeping this on their website.) The camera was also brought up in the AMA. Rubin's response was hand waving jibberish about "computational photography," which is a technical term for bull**** (isn't, after all, all digital photography "computational"). Rubin also said, " We are pretty happy with the hardware design of the camera," even though the inferior sensors they are using was public knowledge by then. Rubin as recently as four days ago claimed in Time Magazine (http://time.com/4950677/andy-rubin-essential-interview/) that the reviewers received phones with incomplete camera software and that caused the problems, but there have been subsequent updates. This was long after the reviews had been out, the updates had been issued, and all the reviewers said it made little to no difference. This is not honesty. That is engaging knowningly in PR bull and trying to obfuscate something.
It's one thing to overpromise. It's another thing to overpromise and when you are called out on it double down on the overpromising. Further, there is zero way that the engineers within the company who worked on the camera didn't know that they were using sensors that are not as good as the best camera phones, so they knowingly claimed to make "one of the world's best phone cameras" when they knew that couldn't be true. They released the phone with that camera anyway, because there was nothing (much) more to be done.
Lastly, yes they are small and overworked. That seems clear. But even here, in promotional events, over and over, they have hyped the fact that being small makes them more effective and efficient, because there are not a lot of layers of bureaucracy to go through to make decisions and get things done. Yet clearly, being small in Essential's case means there are a lot of things they don't have time to do that well (and may never have time). And they have never said, oh, we're small, be patient. They have said over and over, being small makes us better. So if they weren't out there promoting the benefits of being small in contradiction to the reality, it would be easier to forgive them on this account.
When you add it all up, I just don't buy that it comes down to a simple tendency to overpromise. As they say, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think they are being knowingly dishonest or, at best, knowingly engaging in PR misdirection to try to mislead people about problems with the phone and company.
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I remember reading somewhere that someone messaged customer service and the rep said they would try to release the patches within two weeks of google's release.
I agree with you about the camera and how they are handling it. I think the AMA question should have been worded a bit more differently like "You claim to have one if the best cameras in the world but you are using a 2 year old sensor that is known to have problems with capturing images in low light. Other competitors at this price range such as the Google Pixel and the Samsung Galaxy S8 have far superior sensors. Can you really optimize the software that much to compete with them?". Something like that. Anyways, I forgot which reviewer stated it but there's a lot of hubris coming out of this company and I think that's what's causing them to have that "do no wrong" attitude, and Im not a big fan of it.
As for them being a small company, while the downside is not being able to handle handle thousands of orders and customers efficiently especially with a rushed buggy product (of course they will never admit that cuz hubris), im finding more recently that they are starting to frequent Reddit more often and I was assured when I sent the big bug report out, which was responded to in less than a day, that the company monitors the essential subreddit religiously and the software team is and will be referencing that thread. They aren't wrong in their statement about them being a smaller company. They just gotta shoot the issues and suggestions straight to the top making decisions a lot more efficient than a larger company. All I'm saying is let the dust settle from the launch and see how they deal with it the upcoming months
Maybe they'll do better the second time around when they make another phone.
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That's how OnePlus was.... their OPO launch was pretty horrible. They're doing much better now. Still with some hiccups but definitely much better than when they launched their first phone.
canynballa said:
Maybe they'll do better the second time around when they make another phone.
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Yes, I agree, what will really be telling will be if they incorporate any of the criticisms of the Ph-1 into the Ph-2 (assuming there is a Ph-2).
I received this reply this morning. No dates, but it sounds encouraging.
Erich T (Essential Products)
Sep 27, 9:32 AM MST
Hi Mark,
Thank you for reaching out.
We are going to support the 3rd party developer community by releasing our kernel and factory images. These will be made available soon, but I don't have a confirmed date at this time.
I don't know at this point where they will be uploaded to, but please stay tuned to Essential.com, and our social media channels for announcements.
If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to reach back out to us. Have a great day!
Sincerely,
Erich
Essential Customer Experience Team