Database Users

Flash 10.1 will NOT work on Galaxy 3

Hello everyone. First off, be clear of one thing: FLASH will not work on our phones even when Froyo is out. Flash was an improvement in Froyo, but it is not going to be in all phones just because they have Froyo..
I see a lot of people complaining that the Froyo releases of the Galaxy 3 do not have Flash 10.1. I opened this topic to inform everyone who doesn't know that Flash is currently only supported on ARMv7 processors, namely the ARM Cortex A8 processors.
The Galaxy 3 has an ARMv6 processor, which is not currently supported by Flash. Adobe has mentioned that Flash might be supported on lower end processors in the near future, but right now it can only run on phones having an ARM Cortex A8 processor.
So right now, Flash is a no-go on our phone, even when the final Froyo update is released.
You can check the requirements for Flash on the following link:
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/systemreqs/#mobile
Also, check out this link which mentions that ARM might be supported on ARM11 (ARMv6) devices in the future:
http://androidandme.com/2010/08/news/flash-player-10-1-could-appear-on-some-arm11-devices/
For those who wonder why the HTC phones have Flash, just found out that the Flash Player on HTC has been developed by HTC themselves. It is not the actual Adobe Flash Player 10.1..

So we can only hope that until final FROYO relese Adobe will mode Flash to work on our hardware

aantdesign said:
So we can only hope that until final FROYO relese Adobe will mode Flash to work on our hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not likely. Adobe has said they might make it work on these processors, but it surely isn't at the top of their agenda right now.

But on the other side, if We ask at loud and if we do it in weaves, they will change their mind and support our hardware

addicted2088 said:
Not likely. Adobe has said they might make it work on these processors, but it surely isn't at the top of their agenda right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get this information from?
This is crucial, especially to the people in countries, where this phone has been released for sale recently, such as India. The biggest selling point of this phone, has been the technical ability to upgrade from Eclair to Froyo, as such, the importance of Flash cannot be underestimated. Whilst there are many owners who are not too bothered about this, the vast majority have assumed that purchase of the Apollo, would mean, for their internet phone usage, a very much improved experience, mirroring , albeit on a small scale, a view familiar to the desktop computer.
I hope you may be wrong. Samsung should clarify this, before many others spend too much money.

workaround
Where do you want to use flash ?
a) WEB:
Because you can use SKYFIRE which converts at their servers flash to html5 and you can watch converted flash video at your mobile
b) SD card applications:
I had on my XPERIA X1 (which has slower CPU) flash player and many many flash games. It was working without any lags.
c) what if you install flash player 10 like 3th party application ?
d) do you want to launch complicated Flash www pages at your mobile ? With this stupid resolution ? I think that:
- it has no sense (I hate to read anythink on this display)
- sooner or later the pages will be converted to html5 and we will be able to have them.
So please for what reason do you need flash ?

nastyba said:
Where do you want to use flash ?
a) WEB:
Because you can use SKYFIRE which converts at their servers flash to html5 and you can watch converted flash video at your mobile
b) SD card applications:
I had on my XPERIA X1 (which has slower CPU) flash player and many many flash games. It was working without any lags.
c) what if you install flash player 10 like 3th party application ?
d) do you want to launch complicated Flash www pages at your mobile ? With this stupid resolution ? I think that:
- it has no sense (I hate to read anythink on this display)
- sooner or later the pages will be converted to html5 and we will be able to have them.
So please for what reason do you need flash ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Live score updates would be one feature I use on a regular basis. Many sites require Flash to be viewed properly, and Skyfire is somewhat limited in being able to do so.
The resolution of the phone is a factor, but with many video presentations and live transmissions in the 320/240 mode, the Apollo is more than capable of being able to used for displaying web video. LaolaTV, TVU networks, and Justin TV are examples of this.
An otherwise very capable phone, I would just like to squeeze a bit more of it's potential.

The main requirement of flash is a VFPU(vector floating point unit).it is a physical device that should be present in the chip for flash to work.the older arm processors(arm1136) does not support it(thats why adobe said they wont support older processors). Our processor(arm1176) supports it but it is optional.so it all depends on whether samsung implemnted vfpu in this chip. Considering what they did with 3d graphics my hopes are pretty low.
Flash isnt essential but it would have been nice to have it.i didnt know about these things before i bought the phone.but considering the fact that no device. Anywhere near this price range supports it,i am happy with the phone.
Sent from my GT-I5801 using XDA App

ROLY5573 said:
Where did you get this information from?
This is crucial, especially to the people in countries, where this phone has been released for sale recently, such as India. The biggest selling point of this phone, has been the technical ability to upgrade from Eclair to Froyo, as such, the importance of Flash cannot be underestimated. Whilst there are many owners who are not too bothered about this, the vast majority have assumed that purchase of the Apollo, would mean, for their internet phone usage, a very much improved experience, mirroring , albeit on a small scale, a view familiar to the desktop computer.
I hope you may be wrong. Samsung should clarify this, before many others spend too much money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out this site:
"androidandme.com/2010/08/news/flash-player-10-1-could-appear-on-some-arm11-devices/"
ARM11 is ARMv6, which is there in our phones. So right now it's not gonna work in our phones.
Also check out these mobile system requirements mentioned on Adobe's site:
"adobe.com/products/flashplayer/systemreqs/#mobile"

ROLY5573 said:
Live score updates would be one feature I use on a regular basis. Many sites require Flash to be viewed properly, and Skyfire is somewhat limited in being able to do so.
The resolution of the phone is a factor, but with many video presentations and live transmissions in the 320/240 mode, the Apollo is more than capable of being able to used for displaying web video. LaolaTV, TVU networks, and Justin TV are examples of this.
An otherwise very capable phone, I would just like to squeeze a bit more of it's potential.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, also SPB TV works or Orange streaming TV (for orange customers), without any problem. I think that it's pricing policy - producers don't want to squeeze the maximum from the cheap phones.

nastyba said:
I agree, also SPB TV works or Orange streaming TV (for orange customers), without any problem. I think that it's pricing policy - producers don't want to squeeze the maximum from the cheap phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Adobe releases Flash for free, it doesn't really matter to them if it's used in cheap or costly phones. The ARMv6 processor is not necessarily used only in cheap phones. Rendering Flash content is a processor intensive job, so it is not an easy job to port it to lower end processors.

addicted2088 said:
As Adobe releases Flash for free, it doesn't really matter to them if it's used in cheap or costly phones. The ARMv6 processor is not necessarily used only in cheap phones. Rendering Flash content is a processor intensive job, so it is not an easy job to port it to lower end processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and HTC wildfire ? I din't mean this no motivation for Adobe but for Samsung to support the cheaper phone. They just implement some widgets, youtube as a start, but later they do not care about old models.

nastyba said:
and HTC wildfire ? I din't mean this no motivation for Adobe but for Samsung to support the cheaper phone. They just implement some widgets, youtube as a start, but later they do not care about old models.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC has been giving Flash support for their Eclair phones, but it doesn't work that great. If you check the Wildfire review on GSMArena, Flash has trouble playing videos on all sites, and only simple games run nicely.
Flash can run on ARMv6 processors, but it hasn't been developed properly for it yet. And no one except HTC gives support for Flash in their Eclair running phones, so it's not only Samsung's fault. Plus, even Samsung gave Flash on the high-end Galaxy S AFTER it was upgraded to Froyo.
Let's see, it's bound to come out for ARMv6 processors sometime, as budget Android phones are only gonna increase in popularity.

U are right
ROLY5573 said:
Where did you get this information from?
This is crucial, especially to the people in countries, where this phone has been released for sale recently, such as India. The biggest selling point of this phone, has been the technical ability to upgrade from Eclair to Froyo, as such, the importance of Flash cannot be underestimated. Whilst there are many owners who are not too bothered about this, the vast majority have assumed that purchase of the Apollo, would mean, for their internet phone usage, a very much improved experience, mirroring , albeit on a small scale, a view familiar to the desktop computer.
I hope you may be wrong. Samsung should clarify this, before many others spend too much money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my GT-I5500L using XDA App

ROLY5573 said:
Live score updates would be one feature I use on a regular basis. Many sites require Flash to be viewed properly, and Skyfire is somewhat limited in being able to do so.
The resolution of the phone is a factor, but with many video presentations and live transmissions in the 320/240 mode, the Apollo is more than capable of being able to used for displaying web video. LaolaTV, TVU networks, and Justin TV are examples of this.
An otherwise very capable phone, I would just like to squeeze a bit more of it's potential.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really hope you know that HTML5 isn't finnished yet, and will take more 2 years to be finnished. Till there, yes we need flash...

addicted2088 said:
HTC has been giving Flash support for their Eclair phones, but it doesn't work that great. If you check the Wildfire review on GSMArena, Flash has trouble playing videos on all sites, and only simple games run nicely.
Flash can run on ARMv6 processors, but it hasn't been developed properly for it yet. And no one except HTC gives support for Flash in their Eclair running phones, so it's not only Samsung's fault. Plus, even Samsung gave Flash on the high-end Galaxy S AFTER it was upgraded to Froyo.
Let's see, it's bound to come out for ARMv6 processors sometime, as budget Android phones are only gonna increase in popularity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now it's clear

welty said:
I really hope you know that HTML5 isn't finnished yet, and will take more 2 years to be finnished. Till there, yes we need flash...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what about LG OO or other 200€ devices ?

Is there any other app that makes flash possible on our phones?

skyfire
flash doesnt work on p500 either....

Hey
It is possible, to install a Flash Lite on 2.2? Because we don't have any flash, and can't watch videos through skyfire. But no - I won't come back to 2.1

Manage expectations, getting better every day.

It's easy to get caught in the excitement of a new device and/or other purchase. I too became the victim of setting unreal expectations and have a love hate relationship with my new XOOM.
Day 1: This thing is great!
Day 2: I am returning this thing tonight.
Day 3: Wow, this thing really does a lot of things very well.
Day 4: TBD
So what have I learned:
1.) DO NOT get consumed by everything you read on any forum or review site. Example: yesterday when I read a few threads about the possible video limitations I was immediately returning the device that evening. Then I took a breath, went home, converted a few videos and you know what...I was more than pleased with the results. Get Handbrake, adjust the settings properly and the videos look & sounds exceptional.
2.) The XOOM is a damn fine reader and web browser. Sure a few things are annoying and missing (Flash & User-Agent) but they are minor and there is a solution to get around these temporary limitations. The Kindle app, Pulse and Google Books are excellent. I waited for flash on my DroidX and I will wait for it here.
3.) Sure there are not many "Tablet" apps but you know what there are plenty of "Phone" apps that work just as well. Skype, PDF Readers, Mail, Maps, Twitter, Facebook, etc., etc., etc.. There is still a lot there. You can only have so many first choice apps anyway. I am pleased to use the apps that are available and will await the upgrades when the change to Android 3.0.
4.) This battery is AMAZING; at least for me. Three days now, after quite a bit of web browsing, watching a few movies, trying quite a few apps, etc., etc. The battery is still ~ 35%. I can only browse the web over wifi for maybe an hour before the batter is ready to roll over on my DroidX. This battery life has exceeded my expectations by leaps and bounds.
5.) I could go on. Rather than taking a look at the shortcomings I am trying to take the opposite approach. This is a nice device and I find it especially exciting because if this is a rushed product I cannot wait to see what is coming in time. I have been in software development and product development for over 10 years and I have seen truly "rushed" projects...this may have been "pushed" but by my standards not "rushed". There is a lot to like here.
Anyway, take a breath and enjoy what this device does well; which is many things. Everyday, it seems to get a little better.

Thank you.
I'm extremely sick of the "IT DOESN'T HAVE FEATURE X THAT I KNEW IT DIDN'T HAVE???? RETURNING NOW!"
It's not a magic steve jobs reality distortion machine so people immediately fault everything about it.

emittee said:
2.) The XOOM is a damn fine reader and web browser. Sure a few things are annoying and missing (Flash & User-Agent) but they are minor and there is a solution to get around these temporary limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The User-Agent thing isn't the Xoom or Honeycomb's fault. Rather, it's websites that do not distinguish between the "Android" UAString and the "Android Mobile" UAString.
If it bothers you for a particular site, why not try brining it to the attention of the site's admin so they can fix it on their end?

Great post! And the battery life really is awesome (didn't quite expect that coming from an overclocked Droid 1, although being able to swap out batteries has made up for that)

jm9843 said:
The User-Agent thing isn't the Xoom or Honeycomb's fault. Rather, it's websites that do not distinguish between the "Android" UAString and the "Android Mobile" UAString.
If it bothers you for a particular site, why not try brining it to the attention of the site's admin so they can fix it on their end?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is an article describing what I am talking about and how to get around it. Just need to use about:debug.

emittee said:
Here is an article describing what I am talking about and how to get around it. Just need to use about:debug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know about that already but it is a work around. The permanent "fix" is for websites to treat the "Android" UAString differently than they treat the "Android Mobile" UAString.

Good post. The initial shock is due to it being an unfinished product. The potential is definitely there. They gave promises and then didn't deliver on those but said i promise a little bit later. Having the devices we know the potential and will get to see it come to fruition. It's not "early adopter" it's unfinished retail product that we paid for later promises. They will come have to be patient, but we can surely ***** in the meantime
The hardware is capable, just need software finished to utilize it properly.
Once we start getting more honeycomb apps it will help quench our desire while waiting for system updates.

jm9843 said:
Yes, I know about that already but it is a work around. The permanent "fix" is for websites to treat the "Android" UAString differently than they treat the "Android Mobile" UAString.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, sorry misunderstood what you wrote.

emittee said:
Correct, sorry misunderstood what you wrote.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not a problem. I just didn't want the idea perpetuated that this is a Xoom/Honeycomb problem.

Well it is, kind of. Google just made up a new user string (afaik) and now everyone expects that all webmasters jump into their cars to get to work to adjust the website for it...
Just give it some time...

Bonuman said:
Well it is, kind of. Google just made up a new user string (afaik) and now everyone expects that all webmasters jump into their cars to get to work to adjust the website for it...
Just give it some time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. The user string just happens to say Android... as it should. Websites grab the word android and redirect to the mobile site.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

For me there is really only one complaint, no Flash. I know most people say that you don't need it and it's really not that useful but PlayOn is an app that lets you stream Netflix and Hulu if you have Flash. So right now I could be watching Hulu and Netflix if only the Xoom had Flash. UGGG!

What's the big deal with Flash anyway?

I mean..c'mon...is it really that important?
Or does everyone want Flash support soley because you can't have Flash on an iPad?
(aka the Neener Neener Neener Factor?) ("N3F" for short)
Like it or not, there are more iPads in the hands of consumers than there are any other type of tablet device.
An article from January 19 says that Apple sold nearly 15 million iPads in 2010.
That is 15 million mostly non-geeky people
(people who you would think NEED Flash more than your average geek on XDA).
Yet they are all okay with not having Flash.
Before having Flash, I would rather have a streaming NetFlix app, a good DLNA/uPnP app and since I'm on a mini-rant, I would like a really good video player.
The best I've tried so far is Act1...but it's still lacking in a few areas.

It's more a principle thing. First, you buy the device that is supposed to be flash enabled. It was not so waiting #1. Second, Adobe apparently announced the release of flash for today. So far, nothing again; waiting #2. If I buy a banana split with cream then I want my cream whether it's necessary or not
And c'mon, do you really really really have to drag the iPad vs. Xoom discussion in here again? I couldn't care less if other devices support flash or not. That doesn't make me feel better or worse. I only care about the Xoom.

My primary purpose for the tablet is email and web. I have been running the leaked flash since it came out. You get a smoother web experience with flash, in my opinion and use, because it seems to be everywhere. I don't want to have to open other apps or click other links for popups to get what should be there any way. I don't really follow the "I don't get all the flash adds" with my iPad. If it is an issue just turn the extension to "on demand". I like sitting down reading a web page and seeing the video link and then just clicking it to watch it. I don't like adding steps to a device I want to remove steps.
Is flash the ultimate solution? Doesn't appear to be, however until it is phased out to sites I visit daily then I need a tablet that can use it. I really tried to take back the Xoom and get an iPad 2, but it just won't do everything I want.
Flash is not a big deal to everyone, as not everyone buys a tablet for the same reason.

samtran0331 said:
I mean..c'mon...is it really that important?
Or does everyone want Flash support soley because you can't have Flash on an iPad?
(aka the Neener Neener Neener Factor?) ("N3F" for short)
Like it or not, there are more iPads in the hands of consumers than there are any other type of tablet device.
An article from January 19 says that Apple sold nearly 15 million iPads in 2010.
That is 15 million mostly non-geeky people
(people who you would think NEED Flash more than your average geek on XDA).
Yet they are all okay with not having Flash.
Before having Flash, I would rather have a streaming NetFlix app, a good DLNA/uPnP app and since I'm on a mini-rant, I would like a really good video player.
The best I've tried so far is Act1...but it's still lacking in a few areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree totally, I mean I like knowing I have flash handy, but I don't wake up in the morning mourning the absence of flash, its more like " hey dude u wanna see the ultimate facepalm? Check it out" apart from those vids, I can't really say flash is a major part of the tablet experience... that's my view anyway
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

I wouldn't say they (Ipad owners) are OK with it they don't have a choice. Its like living communist china. You live there because you don't have a choice not because you want to. How many downloads do you think flash for IPad would have the first day?
Anyway I'm kinda with you its not really that important but it is something thats nice to have. I'm just board waiting for 5pm so I can start smoking and drinking #winning.

Don't use it. Jeez. You don't even have to install the application. Who cares if 15 million people don't need Flash? If I wan't Flash I'll install Flash and I will use Flash. The iPad uses HTML5 as well, which can also be utilized Android. We have the best of both worlds... and until Flash is phased out of the internet, when it is needed, it will be used.
Was this thread made to show how advertising Flash as an amazing feature is stupid?
Was this thread made to show your own hate for Flash?
Was this thread made to prove that Flash isn't needed?
Was this thread made to "bash" Android fans who bash the fact that the iPad lacks Flash?
... or could it have even been to show that the iPad is selling millions and we should all be envious haters?
Really, if you don't get the point of Flash, and you don't like Flash -- just don't use the thing.

Its all abouth the kiddies being able to watch porn on their phones
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

nirvashone said:
Its all abouth the kiddies being able to watch porn on their phones
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I already have porn I mean flash on my phone. Also I think if you don't like porn you are either really old or well I don't want to call you names its against the rules.

So the end of this thread is flash is cool to have, let's be honest, having more is good and that's what is provides for us android users, more freedom
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

zone23 said:
Well I already have porn I mean flash on my phone. Also I think if you don't like porn you are either really old or well I don't want to call you names its against the rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1!
If I want to watch porn I'll do it on the big screen. Also, there's always Skyfire that has a flash alternative... but I shouldn't give the "kiddies" too many bad ideas!

somehow flash isn't important on the day of the iPad1 release?
i feel like some people were born yesterday.
hi OP, you must be new to the internet.

That's kind of a dumb question. Actually it is a very dumb question. Maybe you live under a rock?
Most websites are built around flash. Without the flash player you would not get a nice browsing experience like the website designer wanted you to have. Yeah yeah.. ads this... ads that. It's called set the flash player to on demand. You can activate it when you need it, so you are in control. Isn't that what being an Android user is all about? Being in control of your device.
It's like 2D vs. 3D. There is quite a difference between the two, just like there is with being able to use flash on websites. Yes, one can go without the flash player (Apple products), or one could enjoy the browsing experience like it was meant to be. Technology is advancing, and its here to make life easier and more enjoyable, especially in the handheld mobile department. It's awesome to be able to go to fox.com and watch full episodes of the Sunday shows on demand on my Xoom whenever I feel like it. Or any other website with tv shows like that. Apple/iPad will NEVER have that kind of desktop user experience... EVER!!!
Hands down.

diablo2224 said:
That's kind of a dumb question. Actually it is a very dumb question. Maybe you live under a rock?
Most websites are built around flash. Without the flash player you would not get a nice browsing experience like the website designer wanted you to have. Yeah yeah.. ads this... ads that. It's called set the flash player to on demand. You can activate it when you need it, so you are in control. Isn't that what being an Android user is all about? Being in control of your device.
It's like 2D vs. 3D. There is quite a difference between the two, just like there is with being able to use flash on websites. Yes, one can go without the flash player (Apple products), or one could enjoy the browsing experience like it was meant to be. Technology is advancing, and its here to make life easier and more enjoyable, especially in the handheld mobile department. It's awesome to be able to go to fox.com and watch full episodes of the Sunday shows on demand on my Xoom whenever I feel like it. Or any other website with tv shows like that. Apple/iPad will NEVER have that kind of desktop user experience... EVER!!!
Hands down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple will integrate flash.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

kalfou said:
Apple will integrate flash.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reply stands solid regardless of the comment about Apple products. Why people skip the whole point and focus on something else is beyond me. That was extra, not the main point. Geez.
I doubt Apple and Adobe will ever be on the same page. If they do, so what? By then Flash will be old news to the mobile world. Everyone will have it already in all shapes and forms, whether its the lite or the full version. In short.. no one will give a crap by that time because every OS will have already been with Flash for the longest time.

diablo2224 said:
That's kind of a dumb question. Actually it is a very dumb question. Maybe you live under a rock?
Most websites are built around flash. Without the flash player you would not get a nice browsing experience like the website designer wanted you to have. Yeah yeah.. ads this... ads that. It's called set the flash player to on demand. You can activate it when you need it, so you are in control. Isn't that what being an Android user is all about? Being in control of your device.
It's like 2D vs. 3D. There is quite a difference between the two, just like there is with being able to use flash on websites. Yes, one can go without the flash player (Apple products), or one could enjoy the browsing experience like it was meant to be. Technology is advancing, and its here to make life easier and more enjoyable, especially in the handheld mobile department. It's awesome to be able to go to fox.com and watch full episodes of the Sunday shows on demand on my Xoom whenever I feel like it. Or any other website with tv shows like that. Apple/iPad will NEVER have that kind of desktop user experience... EVER!!!
Hands down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, I doubt my fat a$$ could fit under a rock.
I live in a house...and I'm actually a web developer and have been a web developer for about 16 years now.
I've done everything from PHP to CFM to JSP to ASP to ASP.Net....
And...at a former job--spent about 3 years developing....<drum roll>....Flash sites!

diablo2224 said:
My reply stands solid regardless of the comment about Apple products. Why people skip the whole point and focus on something else is beyond me. That was extra, not the main point. Geez.
I doubt Apple and Adobe will ever be on the same page. If they do, so what? By then Flash will be old news to the mobile world. Everyone will have it already in all shapes and forms, whether its the lite or the full version. In short.. no one will give a crap by that time because every OS will have already been with Flash for the longest time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just saying Apple will provide flash on their OS. It's just a matter of time, weather they look for other sources or not, or even create their own interfaces... chill man, u gonna have a heart attack
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Flash is minor, I ain't no fanboy or whatever u like to call these people who only purchase certain items from one company...
All I'm sayin is when ur mum is on her iPhone and comes across a broken part of da page where flash should be, u think she gonna stress like us geeks? She ain't, she just gonna forget it and move on...
The end of this *****ing is Apple is the best... if u don't give a ****.
Android is the best if you have time to play around.
Is rather play around kos I have time to.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Set your UA String to desktop and check out many websites in all their glory, it's pretty cool . ESPN, Yahoo, ABC, CBS, etc... It's just cool having the FULL web at your fingertips.
Also, some business websites require flash and that is why some people NEED it.

My look at it.
is flash god's gift? No it is not
is flash a good system? not really
ok.. I get it.. but here's the problem, there are lots of sites out there that use flash, benefit from it, and use it poorly and some use it pretty well
I WANT the option, I had an iphone for a while, and I remember looking for an address to a diner, or a menu for example, or just a lot of things, and it just did not work! it was stupid! now on my Captivate I get the option, yes its a little slow and sluggish, but i can at least get my info that I want.
long story short, I dont care for it too much, but this is the internet and even if we dont like things, with Jobs telling me that I can't have flash, tells me that I cant use the internet to the fullest potential.
I just hope that HTML5 kills Flash, but untill then, I need it.

OP.... yes I don't think flash is that big of a deal either.
Also, the 'iPad' sold a bunch of units in 2010. Guess what? Its 2011! The only thing available back then was the ipad. Now we have the xoom. Which is way better! Lol.
Sent from the most 'Epic' phone in the world! ...Using XDA Premium app

Careful what you wish for re:ICS

I, as with many on this forum, have been anxiously awaiting the release of ICS for my Atrix4G.
Well, I now have a completely different attitude about the update. I will NOT be installing it onto my phone. Why?
My wife owns an Atrix2...a few days ago we received the official OTA update for ICS. It installed beautifully. I was very excited to get to play around with it and looked forward to trying out all the new features, which, are nice.
BUT...It became obvious very quickly that Adobe Flash was not supported with this update. I could not believe it, in fact I REFUSED to believe it so I spent most of the night trying to work around that fact. I found some work arounds, but nothing that really worked.
I tried a couple APK files for Flash 11, and although it did technically install it, the results were mixed. Some flash objects worked fine, but most did not. It seems flash video (streaming tv etc...) were the worst, most of which lock the browsers up. (tried stock, dolphin, opera, firefox)
I know this is not a big deal to many of you, but for my wife and I, we use our phone browsers quite a bit, and embedded flash content is a big part of that experience. To not have it is a major fail for us. I would never had installed the OTA had I realized the degree to which it would impact the delivery of that particular content.
After spending most of my evening reading up on this topic ( I really wish I would have read about these issues before hand) I am very aware of the argument Adobe is making. It is up to the content providers to stop using flash and move to a better delivery mechanism. I get that. But it comes at the cost of usability for the user.
Unfortunately for me, by accepting this update, my device has been "downgraded", in my wife and I's opinion. And to us, that is all that matters. As non-technical consumers we don't care or need to know about "legacy compatibility" or "resource intensity". What we care about are the blank boxes on the majority of the websites we visit where there should be content and now there is either an error message, or a completely locked browser. That is what is important to us.
You may not feel the same, everyone has different opinions and needs for their phones. Our was the ability to reliably surf the web and experience all the features that my desktop can. Until this update, those needs were met perfectly. That is no longer the case, and it is a shame, no matter who is a fault.
So, in summary, after experiencing ICS on the Atrix 2, I will NOT be installing it on my Atrix4G. At least not until either Adobe, the content providers, Moto or Google get back on the same page, because what it happening now just plain sucks. The rest of the update is nice, but to my Wife and I, flash content honestly is a big deal.
Hope this helps someone, as I am sure it would have made me think twice had I read his before updating mine.
Flame away.

Pretty sure adobe have stopped supporting flash now so ICS and JB don't have it
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app

ChrisSkeeles said:
I, as with many on this forum, have been anxiously awaiting the release of ICS for my Atrix4G.
Well, I now have a completely different attitude about the update. I will NOT be installing it onto my phone. Why?
My wife owns an Atrix2...a few days ago we received the official OTA update for ICS. It installed beautifully. I was very excited to get to play around with it and looked forward to trying out all the new features, which, are nice.
BUT...It became obvious very quickly that Adobe Flash was not supported with this update. I could not believe it, in fact I REFUSED to believe it so I spent most of the night trying to work around that fact. I found some work arounds, but nothing that really worked.
I tried a couple APK files for Flash 11, and although it did technically install it, the results were mixed. Some flash objects worked fine, but most did not. It seems flash video (streaming tv etc...) were the worst, most of which lock the browsers up. (tried stock, dolphin, opera, firefox)
I know this is not a big deal to many of you, but for my wife and I, we use our phone browsers quite a bit, and embedded flash content is a big part of that experience. To not have it is a major fail for us. I would never had installed the OTA had I realized the degree to which it would impact the delivery of that particular content.
After spending most of my evening reading up on this topic ( I really wish I would have read about these issues before hand) I am very aware of the argument Adobe is making. It is up to the content providers to stop using flash and move to a better delivery mechanism. I get that. But it comes at the cost of usability for the user.
Unfortunately for me, by accepting this update, my device has been "downgraded", in my wife and I's opinion. And to us, that is all that matters. As non-technical consumers we don't care or need to know about "legacy compatibility" or "resource intensity". What we care about are the blank boxes on the majority of the websites we visit where there should be content and now there is either an error message, or a completely locked browser. That is what is important to us.
You may not feel the same, everyone has different opinions and needs for their phones. Our was the ability to reliably surf the web and experience all the features that my desktop can. Until this update, those needs were met perfectly. That is no longer the case, and it is a shame, no matter who is a fault.
So, in summary, after experiencing ICS on the Atrix 2, I will NOT be installing it on my Atrix4G. At least not until either Adobe, the content providers, Moto or Google get back on the same page, because what it happening now just plain sucks. The rest of the update is nice, but to my Wife and I, flash content honestly is a big deal.
Hope this helps someone, as I am sure it would have made me think twice had I read his before updating mine.
Flame away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have the latest adobe flash sideloaded on my installation of CM10, and it works like it should for me. I have yet to try it on the ICS leak, but all i did was install the .apk i found from Adobe's website, and lo and behold, it works

Well it took you only a year to figure out that Adobe dropped support for flash in mobile... This is one of the most delayed rants ever. In any case, No need to worry if you're using official updates only, since Motorola cancelled the ICS OTA for the Atrix 4G..

Wait, you'll ditch the entire ICS/JB because of something as crappy as Adobe Flash? Dunno, makes no sense to me. Flash is trash and the fact you guys visit so many flash sites is just plain unfortunate.
Also, Adobe has dropped support for Flash on Android long time ago. Has nothing to do with ICS or JB or Motorola or anything.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31311769&postcount=368
So I don't really see your point...

ravilov said:
That makes no sense whatsoever..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if Flash content is not part of your everyday mobile web experience, then I am sure it would not make sense to you.
But it is to us. I don't care if flash sucks or not. The fact that it is still a major delivery system on most websites that I visit makes dropping ICS sound sensible to me.
The majority of news stations (that I visit anyway) that have streaming content still use flash. That is not in my control. What was in my control was the OTA update that I now regret installing.

ChrisSkeeles said:
The fact that it is still a major delivery system on most websites that I visit makes dropping ICS sound sensible to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be if flash support had anything to do with ICS. Like I said above (sorry, edited my post), flash is no longer available on Google Play, whoever got it has it, others must make do with other methods. So if you were still on GB and didn't have flash installed, you'd be just as screwed now.

Well, i know for sure that iOS and WP doesn't support flash, so not sure what are you going to do. Android just went with everyone else about Flash. In reality, Flash is a resource hog. Im kind of happy that they removed Flash, even though it was a selling point for Android.

ravilov said:
It would be if flash support had anything to do with ICS. Like I said above (sorry, edited my post), flash is no longer available on Google Play, whoever got it has it, others must make do with other methods. So if you were still on GB and didn't have flash installed, you'd be just as screwed now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do not have flash installed and you are still on GB, you can still install it via APK (there are plenty of those around) and it will work just as good as if you installed it before Aug 15th (the Google Play cutoff).
Unfortunately this is not the case if you are on ICS, regardless if you had previously installed it on GB, it just does not work well on ICS at all.
What it boils down to is until the web content providers migrate away from Flash and move to a delivery system that is cross compatible between Android, iOS, PC Web, the mobile web user is going to have a large void in accessible content. Especially if you visit mainstream sites much like me and my wife.
Remember, not everyone uses their device for the same reasons, nor do they visit the same sites. What may seem trivial to one may not be to another.
With respect to Atrix4G being cancelled. I am sorry that I missed that announcement. The last I read they changed it from 3rd QTR to "To be determined" or something like that, which was the same timeline they gave the Atrix2, and it now has it.

Wasn't adobe flash still supported in ICS?

What do you use flash for? Homestar Runner?
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app

Where's my Shockwave support ???

Milky Cow said:
Wasn't adobe flash still supported in ICS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The statements that I read from Adobe were that it would work for ICS 4.0.x. I have 4.0.4 and it does not work, for what it is worth.

ChrisSkeeles said:
The statements that I read from Adobe were that it would work for ICS 4.0.x. I have 4.0.4 and it does not work, for what it is worth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool. I guess we have modifiable, open-sourced iPhones now.
Thing is, most sites that want attention, especially from mobile users, create apps or mobile-friendly sites. Even my University caught on to that. Mobile tech is where the money's at and my opinion is that Adobe will have to rely on their Creative Suite software for income in the very near future.

Try looking for Adobe 10.3 or older. The APKs are floating all over the xda forums. Not sure it'll help but it's been known to work best for situations like when CM7 didn't have good flash support unless using 10.3 or older.

Flash is heavily used by most of the on-demand/catchup services in the UK, only the BBC have provided an alternative.
I am still somewhat pissed it is no longer supported, resource hog or not I would rather have something that works than sitting there without something because of battery life etc. Gps, high resolution screens, 3g and games all use resources and battery, if we took apple's approach to flash, we would still have nokia 3310s
Sent from my MB860

mysticdrew said:
Try looking for Adobe 10.3 or older. The APKs are floating all over the xda forums. Not sure it'll help but it's been known to work best for situations like when CM7 didn't have good flash support unless using 10.3 or older.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for that suggestion, I will do just that.

I have mixed feelings about Flash. I love it for animations, yet hate it for everything else. Except games, I'm fine with Flash games.

Blame Adobe. They are a crap company who makes overpriced software and regularly takes a dump on any platform that is not Windows or Mac.

What he really wants guys is to all of you look at his point of view what you all are not really doing.
Like 2 or 3 said before in old post of this thread resource hog or not (Battery eater) some people like flash and use it as their everyday, sometimes I used Adoble Flash in my Atrix many times and it worked really well, shame I don't have my Atrix anymore.

Why don't Operating Systems give you choice any more?

I can get on board with Windows Phone 8 or even IOS but the only thing I cannot stand is how they don't allow you to have choice. On Android even though it doesn't come as standard any more, I can still download the APK and install Flash Player myself. Average users can just use the OS and never install flash but I'm still allowed to install it as it's a personal need.
Now Windows Phone 8 is out and it is another OS that doesn't allow you to install software they haven't approved. It just pisses me off so much, especially seeing as they don't have BBCiPlayer yet which uses flash. I mean everyone will tell you these days that flash sucks, no one uses it and yet every site I seem to go to does, even Youtube has lots of flash only content you cannot play with HTML5. I mean is HTML5 even going to become the new standard? I don't see people picking it up very fast.
I just don't get why people don't want choice any more, they seem quite happy to defend being controlled and told how to use their phone. I find IOS harder to use than Android and many people I meet do, I mean things like sharing files between your device and your PC which should be so easy has become so hard. You used to be able to just plug in your phone and it would show as a HDD, now however with IOS and I'm sure Windows Phone 8, you cannot do that. I find it funny because people actually do find these so called user friendly devices harder to use. It's like Windows 8 now and how their new Metro UI has tried to make things look so simple that they've hidden all the options. Things once simple to do, you have to right click and then search in settings to find they've removed the feature to keep the UI looking clean.
I'm just sick of it, the least Microsoft could do is allow third party software to be installed as an option for advanced users. This would at least make up for the lack of functionality on a new OS... no BBCiPlayer? No problem, use the Desktop site which I always do on Android anyways as it has far more functionality and content than the app, the same goes for Youtube.

HTML5 is the new standard. It is adobe's policy and attempts to try to maintain the monopoly over the market-share, combined with pure ignorance from established web developers that still keep it alive.
Installing third party software on a phone is kinda dangerous. Your phone is not a desktop PC, it has limited uses, and it should be regarded as such...
Oh and there is really no reason not to have your functional app on the marketplace. If your app is that awesome and yet you can't get it from the marketplace, then there is something wrong with it.
Don't forget about piracy.

Firstly the phone has limited uses? I've got the same Nokia phone that I've had since 2003 and it works fine. I've had the GS2 for a year and a half now and loaded countless custom roms and third party software and the phone is perfectly fine. Also on that point like I've said I've loaded countless amounts of third party software on Android from torrents or other sites and my phone has been fine. I've put lots of different firmware types on my phone and it has been fine. I don't see anything dangerous about it other than being an idiot enough to load some virus onto your phone.
Apps don't get to the market half the time not because there is anything wrong with it but because Microsoft or Apple simply don't want it on their platform. There is nothing wrong with saying you can flick this switch to open you phone but then have a warning saying you void your warranty or whatever if you brick your phone. Why don't they do this? I just think it all comes done to being scared of piracy more than anything and tbh that isn't a good enough excuse.
HTML5 isn't the new standard because 90% of the sites I go to still use flash and not HTML5. I just don't get why they'd say you can never install this on your phone, why not? All these fanboi claims of how bad it is has led to the downfall. I don't know what machines these people are using, I guess they're made up ones because I've never had a problem with flash, it has always run fine and never crashes all the time like people say... not on my GS2 and not on my Desktop. I'd say Flash is one of the most stable things on my system, I mean games crash far more often, surely ban games then for being unstable and poorly coded? Frigging barely any games are multithreaded even now, BAN THEM ALL!

^ What he said ^
All in all WP8 was a huuuge disappointment. At least for me

Venekor said:
Firstly the phone has limited uses? I've got the same Nokia phone that I've had since 2003 and it works fine. I've had the GS2 for a year and a half now and loaded countless custom roms and third party software and the phone is perfectly fine. Also on that point like I've said I've loaded countless amounts of third party software on Android from torrents or other sites and my phone has been fine. I've put lots of different firmware types on my phone and it has been fine. I don't see anything dangerous about it other than being an idiot enough to load some virus onto your phone.
Apps don't get to the market half the time not because there is anything wrong with it but because Microsoft or Apple simply don't want it on their platform. There is nothing wrong with saying you can flick this switch to open you phone but then have a warning saying you void your warranty or whatever if you brick your phone. Why don't they do this? I just think it all comes done to being scared of piracy more than anything and tbh that isn't a good enough excuse.
HTML5 isn't the new standard because 90% of the sites I go to still use flash and not HTML5. I just don't get why they'd say you can never install this on your phone, why not? All these fanboi claims of how bad it is has led to the downfall. I don't know what machines these people are using, I guess they're made up ones because I've never had a problem with flash, it has always run fine and never crashes all the time like people say... not on my GS2 and not on my Desktop. I'd say Flash is one of the most stable things on my system, I mean games crash far more often, surely ban games then for being unstable and poorly coded? Frigging barely any games are multithreaded even now, BAN THEM ALL!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, a phone has limited uses, you can't replace your PC with your phone no matter how much you want that.
Second, downloading apps from torrent is illegal. You have quite a lot of gutts to post such misery on a developer's forums, and i, as a developer, take great offense to that, so please get my sincere GTFO.
Third, Custom roms are something that android needs to survive, without it there would be no android. Windows Phone doesn't need that.
About HTML5, yes it is the standard, but people aren't forced to adapt by the standards instantly, they have a lot of time. But as this time runs out, flash will become extinct, therefore there is no reason to implement flash on new phones, as in 3 year's time, flash will be gone.
If your games have worse stability than flash I suggest you:
Get new RAM, your existing one is damaged.
Reinstall your Operating system, and don't pirate it.
Check your error logs, you will see flash is very unstable.

A ton of websites use HTML5.
Not a lot of websites use the new HTML5 video and audio elements.
A lot of the websites that do use them, either fall back to flash / Silverlight or use flash / Silverlight, first, and fall back to the HTML5 video and audio elements.
The websites that I work with, that use video and audio, do Silverlight, first, and fall back to HTML5 video and audio.
The biggest reasons are...
1: Very little native full-screen support (Chrome has it, but that's about it)
2: Firefox and Opera don't support MP4 / MP3 (we have to produce video is MP4 and WebM and audio in MP3 and OGG)
3: Our live broadcasts use the SmoothStreaming technology (only iOS and Android 3+ support that for HTML5 video - Silverlight supports it and supports most computers)
It is worth noting that I COMPLETELY agree with the point of this thread, though.
The iPhone started a trend of consumerizing smartphones.
As such, a lot of big business is still using Blackberry and Windows Mobile.
I would not be surprised, at all, if, in the next five years, we started seeing another separation of consumer versus professional.
The last few years have really tried to re-integrate the two and it hasn't worked, very well.
JJ

If 90 percent of the sites you visit still use flash then you're going to some low-quality porn sites... Also, WP8 does have disk mode, it also syncs through media player in the same way WinMo did.

mcosmin222 said:
Yes, a phone has limited uses, you can't replace your PC with your phone no matter how much you want that.
Second, downloading apps from torrent is illegal. You have quite a lot of gutts to post such misery on a developer's forums, and i, as a developer, take great offense to that, so please get my sincere GTFO.
Third, Custom roms are something that android needs to survive, without it there would be no android. Windows Phone doesn't need that.
About HTML5, yes it is the standard, but people aren't forced to adapt by the standards instantly, they have a lot of time. But as this time runs out, flash will become extinct, therefore there is no reason to implement flash on new phones, as in 3 year's time, flash will be gone.
If your games have worse stability than flash I suggest you:
Get new RAM, your existing one is damaged.
Reinstall your Operating system, and don't pirate it.
Check your error logs, you will see flash is very unstable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"downloading apps from torrent is illegal"
Uh... Not really. He never said what apps he was downloading. Torrents != piracy.

SilverHedgehog said:
"downloading apps from torrent is illegal"
Uh... Not really. He never said what apps he was downloading. Torrents != piracy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Preach, preacha!!!
I would agree that a majority of torrents are copyrighted material, but certainly not everything.
Almost every Linux distribution utilizes torrent as their main means of downloading.
JJ

Venekor said:
On Android even though it doesn't come as standard any more, I can still download the APK and install Flash Player myself. Average users can just use the OS and never install flash but I'm still allowed to install it as it's a personal need.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my Jelly Bean I can't do this.

How is having Flash choice?
Can I get Flash from Microsoft or Flash from Apple or Flash from Google? nope, all versions of flash were done by one company. That's not competition or freedom, that is lock in. If Adobe didn't like your OS and phone you didn't get Flash.
HTML5 is like a universal language for all web enabled devices, we're better without these proprietary closed and restricted plugins.

After years if constantly flashing new ROMs and such. I for one am glad to be at WP8.
"Hello, my name is LudoGris and I am a flashaholic. I recently switched to Windows Phone 8 and have not had the urge to flash anything since. I am well on my way to being cured." ?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

LudoGris said:
After years if constantly flashing new ROMs and such. I for one am glad to be at WP8.
"Hello, my name is LudoGris and I am a flashaholic. I recently switched to Windows Phone 8 and have not had the urge to flash anything since. I am well on my way to being cured." ?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got a little laugh out of this one. Thanks. I agree a bit here. That's what happened to me when I went from pre WinMo 7 to iOS. Now I'm back on Android because of how tired I was of the inability to do something as simple as customize the homescreen. Really, I don't care which one I use and, honestly, I'd use different ones at different times depending on needs and even mood. I flash a little bit with my Android but really like to get settled on something and not have to worry about it. That doesn't work out that often on Android, unfortunately. That's why I relate to the comment on "flashaholic...being cured". I'd like to try out WinPhone 8 for a little bit, but the first thing to turn me off big is the same thing that bothers me on the Win8 desktop, the integration with the MS ecosystem. I'm tied to Google apps and don't feel like switching. It makes most sense for me to use a Google OS because of the strong integration with Google apps.
All that being said, it's just a phone, it's just a desktop, just let me get what I want to get done on the two and have a real life! LOL

The basic fault with the argument here is that the ability to sideload applications has been there in various ways since WP7 came along. It wouldn't help you with your problems though. IE9 on WP7 and IE10 on WP8 simply don't have any plugin support so you wouldn't be able to add any.
The complete architecture of Android is more open and geared towards customization. The effect of that is that we frequently have Apps that don't run (well) on different OS versions, have stuttering problems or have to wait for ages and ages until the customized code gets updates. Allowing for a lot of flexibility with the system makes updating and changing code really challenging. I've encountered numerous of those problems on my GS2. Of course it's running reasonably well after I put CM9.1 on there and didn't bother to change much else but that's hardly how I would use my primary phone (installing Twitter killed Video playback for me on the Stock ROM - for whatever reason).
So basically as a consumer the tradeoff comes down to having everything work as intended without much possibilities to make the system misbehave versus a customized system that I can break at times. It seems there is not much of a middle ground there. We'll have to see how this plays out in the end as Microsoft is indeed adding integration points for developers to use to the system that make it more flexible while still enforcing certain guidelines.
On the whole Flash vs. HTML5 debate. Actually HTML5 can't replace Flash and Silverlight in many use cases. There are not even any standard proposals for certain functionalities that have been part of those Plugins for ages. Webcam-Support, DRM'd Video/Audio, etc. For those reasons alone it will be quite a long time before HTML5 really could replace them. Another important part is that there has been lots of money invested in building sites on top of those technologies. Over 90% of all Web activity still originate on classic PCs/Notebooks that have Flash support so unless your target audience is particularilly Smartphone/Tablet focussed (e.g. Gadget Blogs, etc.) you simply don't feel much pressure to move away from something that works just fine right now.
However Apple led the charge to kill Flash, Microsoft chimed in and in the end even Adobe decided to jump onto that train - even though none of them had a clue how to replace the technology. This clearly showed when Microsoft decided to revive Flash in Windows 8's Metro IE. I still doubt we will see any renewed development of Flash for mobile operating systems and it remains to be seen how long it will keep running on Android given that it has been abandonned by Adobe. It all comes down to the fact that the industry decided to move away from Flash and for better or worse that is what is happening right now. As soon as mobile really becomes important for the web industry things will start changing, right now it simply isn't or it is far easier to simply write an App then messing with a website that's working right now.

Android doesnt let you customize as much as maemo5, but still people choose it.
C'est la vie, necafé?
Personally Im enjoying wp8 for what it is: a smartphone OS. If it was a laptop Id be inclined to agree that it would be too limiting, but its not.

Slai said:
Android doesnt let you customize as much as maemo5, but still people choose it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While people like to customize, they also want to have an OS that's actually supported.

LudoGris said:
After years if constantly flashing new ROMs and such. I for one am glad to be at WP8.
"Hello, my name is LudoGris and I am a flashaholic. I recently switched to Windows Phone 8 and have not had the urge to flash anything since. I am well on my way to being cured." ?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@LudoGris
Do you know if your device is gonna get software upgrades or have you been able to flash new software. I have the same version as you have but won't be able to flash something new on it.

itsa porno thing
Just go to the jack-shack its cheaper

I was like you : I thought using iOS or WP was a regression because of lack of freedom. I used to heavily flash my Android devices... then I discovered WP (7.5 first, then 8). I really like it because it's simple... and it's working ! No need to flash, no need to choose another launcher, no need to get lost in settings : it works ! It's stable, fluid and ergonomy is great.
I really like WP8 "launcher" AKA Metro. I think it has the best way to personalize information by choosing what is the more pertinent for each user.
I can live in a closed OS if it answer to all my needs... With WP8, it's the case !

zepretender said:
I was like you : I thought using iOS or WP was a regression because of lack of freedom. I used to heavily flash my Android devices...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We probably don't need another "me too" here, but I have to say, you've summed up my experience perfectly I was thrilled to flash AOKP's ICS and JB onto my old single-core Samsung Fascinate, and then I could get Nova Launcher with gestures and docks and more options than I can recall; but all those new features were slow, slow, slow. So I flashed the Devil kernel and tried different govenors, but of course YGWYPF and my battery life went down the tubes. I had replaced almost all the stock apps with better versions from the market, but my app collection grew to well over a hundred and I needed Titanium Backup to manage it all. So here I am doing like high-level IT support just to get my phone to work as a phone. It was very pretty but my wife was complaining about how I always missed her calls.
My new HTC 8X is such a revelation. There's nothing to do except use it, and it works perfectly. There's no lag ever; everything is right there or at most one or two clicks away, and the stock apps are just fine, thank you. Sure, I have my hit-list of missing features but none rise even to the level of annoyance, and I expect there will be improvement.
My only concern is developer interest. I read this about an IDC survey:
According to IDC, which surveyed almost 5,000 developers, Windows 8 and Windows Phone are in a lot of trouble. While iOS (iPhone, iPad), Android (handsets and tablets), and HTML5/mobile web fall well above that crucial 50 percent mark, Windows 8 and Windows Phone fall well short. Only 33 percent of developers said they were very interested in writing Windows 8 “Metro” apps. And only 21 percent were interested in doing so for Windows Phone.
(Fully 85 percent of responders were very interested in writing iPhone apps, and 83 percent were very interested in writing iPad apps. Android handsets and tablets came in at 76 percent and 66 percent, respectively, whereas HTML5/mobile web was at 66 percent as well.)
So we'll see. I think the new handsets from Nokia and HTC will help draw attention to how good the O/S is; but it seems Microsoft is trying now to make itself into a better Apple, only Apple was there first.