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signed up for the beta hope that our androids have full flash support next

This is a TERRIBLE thing.
Flash should be boycotted.
Its only effect is to hinder the advancement of open web standards and keep us locked in 90's type content.
Flash appeared in 1996 to take advantage of missing web functionality and provide more interactivity (not to play videos). Nowadays, it doesn't actually provide anything useful -- videos can be played by MEDIA plugins and don't need to be flash-packaged. Interactivity can be provided by TONS of different mechanisms. There is NO USE for flash.
The only reason why ANYONE still uses it is because certain websites are TOO STUPID to ditch it! I.e., they got used to using it when it *was* useful, and never bothered to learn the RIGHT WAY to do things when it became possible to ditch it!
I VERY VERY STRONGLY suggest that you do NOT use flash plugins. LET FLASH DIE!!!

lbcoder said:
This is a TERRIBLE thing.
Flash should be boycotted.
Its only effect is to hinder the advancement of open web standards and keep us locked in 90's type content.
Flash appeared in 1996 to take advantage of missing web functionality and provide more interactivity (not to play videos). Nowadays, it doesn't actually provide anything useful -- videos can be played by MEDIA plugins and don't need to be flash-packaged. Interactivity can be provided by TONS of different mechanisms. There is NO USE for flash.
The only reason why ANYONE still uses it is because certain websites are TOO STUPID to ditch it! I.e., they got used to using it when it *was* useful, and never bothered to learn the RIGHT WAY to do things when it became possible to ditch it!
I VERY VERY STRONGLY suggest that you do NOT use flash plugins. LET FLASH DIE!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that is pretty much along the same thing that Steve Jobs said about not implementing Flash to iPhone/iPad/iTouch devices. Although I agree with it but like you said yourself there are so many websites that won't ditch it. When something better comes around (not saying that there isn't already) then I'm sure that they will look forward to that as well. Until then... I want HULU!
Plus, I know that Netflix is wanting to implement their movie streaming services to Android sometime soon too! Can't wait!

I will be notified when its up

lbcoder said:
This is a TERRIBLE thing.
Flash should be boycotted.
Its only effect is to hinder the advancement of open web standards and keep us locked in 90's type content.
Flash appeared in 1996 to take advantage of missing web functionality and provide more interactivity (not to play videos). Nowadays, it doesn't actually provide anything useful -- videos can be played by MEDIA plugins and don't need to be flash-packaged. Interactivity can be provided by TONS of different mechanisms. There is NO USE for flash.
The only reason why ANYONE still uses it is because certain websites are TOO STUPID to ditch it! I.e., they got used to using it when it *was* useful, and never bothered to learn the RIGHT WAY to do things when it became possible to ditch it!
I VERY VERY STRONGLY suggest that you do NOT use flash plugins. LET FLASH DIE!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Calm down. I do agree with you that flash slows down web browsing with ads but that is why I downloaded AdFree from the market. HTML-5 is slowing taking over and Android 2.0+ is compatible with that already (or just need a simple plug-in). Anyway, we can use our phones to enjoy the FULL internet experience.

Signed up and ready!
And flash can die when I can have the ENTIRE web experience given to me by something else.
Until then, LONG LIVE FLASH!!!

This is a TERRIBLE thing.
Flash should be boycotted.
Its only effect is to hinder the advancement of open web standards and keep us locked in 90's type content.
Flash appeared in 1996 to take advantage of missing web functionality and provide more interactivity (not to play videos). Nowadays, it doesn't actually provide anything useful -- videos can be played by MEDIA plugins and don't need to be flash-packaged. Interactivity can be provided by TONS of different mechanisms. There is NO USE for flash.
The only reason why ANYONE still uses it is because certain websites are TOO STUPID to ditch it! I.e., they got used to using it when it *was* useful, and never bothered to learn the RIGHT WAY to do things when it became possible to ditch it!
I VERY VERY STRONGLY suggest that you do NOT use flash plugins. LET FLASH DIE!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally, someone in the android community that understands this. Flash is not only guilty of the above, it also murders puppies.

lbcoder said:
This is a TERRIBLE thing.
Flash should be boycotted.
Its only effect is to hinder the advancement of open web standards and keep us locked in 90's type content.
Flash appeared in 1996 to take advantage of missing web functionality and provide more interactivity (not to play videos). Nowadays, it doesn't actually provide anything useful -- videos can be played by MEDIA plugins and don't need to be flash-packaged. Interactivity can be provided by TONS of different mechanisms. There is NO USE for flash.
The only reason why ANYONE still uses it is because certain websites are TOO STUPID to ditch it! I.e., they got used to using it when it *was* useful, and never bothered to learn the RIGHT WAY to do things when it became possible to ditch it!
I VERY VERY STRONGLY suggest that you do NOT use flash plugins. LET FLASH DIE!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash isn't gonna die any time soon.
It's like mp3. It's an awful lossy format that sounds terrible, yet, because it's so small everyone uses it, despite the fact formats such as OGGVORBIS give much better sound quality in a smaller file. Also, it's completely open source, which is always nice

Meltus said:
Flash isn't gonna die any time soon.
It's like mp3. It's an awful lossy format that sounds terrible, yet, because it's so small everyone uses it, despite the fact formats such as OGGVORBIS give much better sound quality in a smaller file. Also, it's completely open source, which is always nice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mp3 is open source.
flash, though the specifications are free, is NOT OPEN.
It is closed -- only decodable by a piece of proprietary garbage.
mp3 does NOT have this problem.

Meltus said:
Flash isn't gonna die any time soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... not if complete **IDIOTS** keep using it!!!

lbcoder said:
... not if complete **IDIOTS** keep using it!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you a anti-flash movement or something? geez leave it alone.. one guy on a XDA forum will not make a piece of software die so stop crying.
Too many people use it so instead of being close minded and say it's terrible blah blah open your mind and think, why not have flash AND others like plugins so everyone can enjoy or chose to use what they want. It's called best of both worlds.

lbcoder said:
mp3 is open source.
flash, though the specifications are free, is NOT OPEN.
It is closed -- only decodable by a piece of proprietary garbage.
mp3 does NOT have this problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"If you decide to sell your music in MP3 format, you are responsible for paying Fraunhofer a percentage of each sale because you are using their patents."
OggVorbis is completely free, which is what i was trying to explain
lbcoder said:
... not if complete **IDIOTS** keep using it!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure if that was aimed at me, but if so, well done for completely missing the point of my post...

lbcoder said:
This is a TERRIBLE thing.
Flash should be boycotted.
Its only effect is to hinder the advancement of open web standards and keep us locked in 90's type content.
Flash appeared in 1996 to take advantage of missing web functionality and provide more interactivity (not to play videos). Nowadays, it doesn't actually provide anything useful -- videos can be played by MEDIA plugins and don't need to be flash-packaged. Interactivity can be provided by TONS of different mechanisms. There is NO USE for flash.
The only reason why ANYONE still uses it is because certain websites are TOO STUPID to ditch it! I.e., they got used to using it when it *was* useful, and never bothered to learn the RIGHT WAY to do things when it became possible to ditch it!
I VERY VERY STRONGLY suggest that you do NOT use flash plugins. LET FLASH DIE!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Translation:
" Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh. :'( "
A few people on a forum not downloading flash for Android will change absolutely nothing.
We are accessing the content, not publishing it........

Meltus said:
"If you decide to sell your music in MP3 format, you are responsible for paying Fraunhofer a percentage of each sale because you are using their patents."
OggVorbis is completely free, which is what i was trying to explain
I'm not sure if that was aimed at me, but if so, well done for completely missing the point of my post...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YOU are missing the point. This ISNT ABOUT distributing. This is about USING. MP3 encoders and decoders are available, FOR FREE. *ANYONE* can use it. Distributing commercial content in that format is subject to licensing fees. So what?
The point is that ADOBE is TERRIBLE at supporting their product -- flash. They took the better part of a DECADE TO SUPPORT AMD64, and that is only on linux.
Their software is terrible and buggy.
Only a MINORITY of web users are *ABLE* to use flash content (whether due to use of a platform adobe doesn't support, or due to DEFECTS in flash plugin).
It is also a HORRIBLE resource hog!
And to top it all off, there is NO REASON to use it! Everything it does can be done BETTER with things that are STANDARD. And FYI: These standard things actually WORK and use VERY LITTLE RESOURCES.
So please explain HOW it is to anyone's benefit to keep using this CRAP!
To kill it requires that EVERYBODY DOES NOT USE IT. Already right now MOST PEOPLE do NOT USE IT.
The more people do NOT use flash, the more web developers will realize that they are shooting themselves in the foot by using it!
If developers use the SUPERIOR ALTERNATIVES, then those sites will work for EVERYBODY, and flash will finally die.
Which means that people won't need to wait for adobe to support new platforms (without exception, this takes YEARS), or fix bugs (again, typically takes YEARS).
Also realize this: flash sites ***ARE VANISHING***. I can't think of ONE SINGLE SITE that still requires flash, except for youtube -- and it is going to vanish from there very soon... as soon as they decide on the appropriate video format (going to be ON8, theora, or h264).

Flash runs amazingly for me, until something better can do everything it does and better, Ill keep using it.
End of story.

lbcoder said:
Also realize this: flash sites ***ARE VANISHING***. I can't think of ONE SINGLE SITE that still requires flash, except for youtube -- and it is going to vanish from there very soon... as soon as they decide on the appropriate video format (going to be ON8, theora, or h264).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're saying that only YouTube uses Flash? Are you on crack?
One word... PORN. There are millions of sites out there that uses Flash based content too.
Then there are other sites such as Hulu. Huge site that is generating revenue off of their adds and soon as a paid membership service.
There are streaming sites like local news stations that deliver real time content to your hands.
Then there are Flash games as well.
Many cell phones are beginning to support Flash content because it is so common on websites. The more people that stare at their cell phones the more hooked they are on the service that their cellular company provides. Which mean more customers, more money, more profit. Notice that many of the phones these days are getting thinner but the screens are getting wider? Do you think it's because people just want to have a nice bright 4" screen on their hip or in their pocket? People use these new devices for multimedia and web browsing and not just for texting and making phone calls. Web browsing isn't complete if you can only browse wap and mobile friendly web pages. Flash is also a smaller file that is easy to stream... which is cheaper for cellular providers. Sure they may have to upgrade their network for the 34,000,000 subscribers that are watching last nights episode of Lost on their phones (hypothetical)... but they are investing in all of that anyway. Why do you suppose that is? For situations such as this. Should Flash disappear it would be an awful waste of research, development, sales and technology. Yes, there are alternatives... but are they more convenient than what we already have in place that works? If it's not broke, don't fix it. If Flash was going to become obsolete it'll more than likely be replaced by mp4. I can see your point of view but I can see how this multimedia evolution is progressing.
text> html colors > jpeg > gif > flash > mp4? > 3Dmp4 > Virtual Reality > Brain Implants

lbcoder said:
YOU are missing the point. This ISNT ABOUT distributing. This is about USING. MP3 encoders and decoders are available, FOR FREE. *ANYONE* can use it. Distributing commercial content in that format is subject to licensing fees. So what?
The point is that ADOBE is TERRIBLE at supporting their product -- flash. They took the better part of a DECADE TO SUPPORT AMD64, and that is only on linux.
Their software is terrible and buggy.
Only a MINORITY of web users are *ABLE* to use flash content (whether due to use of a platform adobe doesn't support, or due to DEFECTS in flash plugin).
It is also a HORRIBLE resource hog!
And to top it all off, there is NO REASON to use it! Everything it does can be done BETTER with things that are STANDARD. And FYI: These standard things actually WORK and use VERY LITTLE RESOURCES.
So please explain HOW it is to anyone's benefit to keep using this CRAP!
To kill it requires that EVERYBODY DOES NOT USE IT. Already right now MOST PEOPLE do NOT USE IT.
The more people do NOT use flash, the more web developers will realize that they are shooting themselves in the foot by using it!
If developers use the SUPERIOR ALTERNATIVES, then those sites will work for EVERYBODY, and flash will finally die.
Which means that people won't need to wait for adobe to support new platforms (without exception, this takes YEARS), or fix bugs (again, typically takes YEARS).
Also realize this: flash sites ***ARE VANISHING***. I can't think of ONE SINGLE SITE that still requires flash, except for youtube -- and it is going to vanish from there very soon... as soon as they decide on the appropriate video format (going to be ON8, theora, or h264).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wtf are you having a go at me for? i agree with you.
My point was, that like flash, there are better audio formats available that can do the job much better than mp3s, but because the majority of people don't really care and are not very knowledgeable on the subject, they see no reason to change. It's the same with flash. They don't know that there are any alternatives and, so they see no point in using anything different.
For developers, flash may not be the best thing to use, but EVERYONE has heard of it. From a marketing point of view, it's best to use a brand that you have heard of than one you haven't.
Why are you actually getting so worked up about this? You seem to be the ONLY person who actually cares, and next time, please actually READ my posts before you have a massive rant at me when i actually ****ing agree with you.
Also, only a minority of web users can use Flash? wtf? I'd quite confidently say the majority of web users are either on Windows or on a Mac. Both of which have fantastic flash support.

Flash won't be replaced till there is something to replace it with. Please don't say HTML 5 cause thats a complete joke. As hulu just said in a press release. HTML is nice and cool but for our statistics and our video quality HTML 5 is many years behind flash. Just take a look at youtube and thier HTML5 experment. With the power and money of google behind them their HTML5 site looks like crap compared to their flash site.
Also HTML 5 severly lacks in vector graphics which was the main selling point about flash for years. Then take into account cross platform bugs and development and HTML 5 is just gonna be a flashy form of HTML 4. Flash is so powerfull it will always have a home. Hell now you can make iphone and ipad apps with it, even after Stevo gave the no no.

maxpower097 said:
Flash won't be replaced till there is something to replace it with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is just the point... there is NO NEED to replace it. It doesn't do ANYTHING USEFUL!
Please don't say HTML 5 cause thats a complete joke. As hulu just said in a press release. HTML is nice and cool but for our statistics and our video quality HTML 5 is many years behind flash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you trying to say that VP6 is better than h264 and VP8? Because that just makes you look like a flashtard.
Just take a look at youtube and thier HTML5 experment. With the power and money of google behind them their HTML5 site looks like crap compared to their flash site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on your statement here, I just took a look, and you know what? It is EXACTLY THE SAME. The ONLY difference is that when you come across a webm/VP8 or h264 transcoded video, they don't need to load that flash bloat garbage.
Also HTML 5 severly lacks in vector graphics
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does this apply to html5 at all? If the image is a vector graphic, it is up to the browser to handle it. If YOUR browser doesn't handle vector graphics properly, don't whine about html5, whine about your browser, or better yet, CONTRIBUTE to it.
which was the main selling point about flash for years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which remains unnecessary. Vector graphics are cool and all, but hardly worth subjecting yourself to the intense BLOAT.
Then take into account cross platform bugs and development and HTML 5 is just gonna be a flashy form of HTML 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? You seem to be SERIOUSLY CONFUSED.
Multi-platform support has ALWAYS been one of the MANY MANY SERIOUS weaknesses of flash. They take YEARS TOO LONG to support new platforms -- if EVER (see apple). Their new platform support is always buggy and slow. The multi-platform nature of HTML5 is its STRENGTH and will ENSURE that it is selected more consistently than that terrible flash thing.
Flash is so powerfull it will always have a home.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now you're REALLY dreaming.
Flash is NOT powerful. It is WEAK. It is SLOW. It is UGLY. It brings about INCOMPATIBILITY. It never did ANYTHING useful for ANYBODY. The ONLY reason why anyone uses it now (or has EVER used it) is because they don't/didn't know any better.

Manage expectations, getting better every day.

It's easy to get caught in the excitement of a new device and/or other purchase. I too became the victim of setting unreal expectations and have a love hate relationship with my new XOOM.
Day 1: This thing is great!
Day 2: I am returning this thing tonight.
Day 3: Wow, this thing really does a lot of things very well.
Day 4: TBD
So what have I learned:
1.) DO NOT get consumed by everything you read on any forum or review site. Example: yesterday when I read a few threads about the possible video limitations I was immediately returning the device that evening. Then I took a breath, went home, converted a few videos and you know what...I was more than pleased with the results. Get Handbrake, adjust the settings properly and the videos look & sounds exceptional.
2.) The XOOM is a damn fine reader and web browser. Sure a few things are annoying and missing (Flash & User-Agent) but they are minor and there is a solution to get around these temporary limitations. The Kindle app, Pulse and Google Books are excellent. I waited for flash on my DroidX and I will wait for it here.
3.) Sure there are not many "Tablet" apps but you know what there are plenty of "Phone" apps that work just as well. Skype, PDF Readers, Mail, Maps, Twitter, Facebook, etc., etc., etc.. There is still a lot there. You can only have so many first choice apps anyway. I am pleased to use the apps that are available and will await the upgrades when the change to Android 3.0.
4.) This battery is AMAZING; at least for me. Three days now, after quite a bit of web browsing, watching a few movies, trying quite a few apps, etc., etc. The battery is still ~ 35%. I can only browse the web over wifi for maybe an hour before the batter is ready to roll over on my DroidX. This battery life has exceeded my expectations by leaps and bounds.
5.) I could go on. Rather than taking a look at the shortcomings I am trying to take the opposite approach. This is a nice device and I find it especially exciting because if this is a rushed product I cannot wait to see what is coming in time. I have been in software development and product development for over 10 years and I have seen truly "rushed" projects...this may have been "pushed" but by my standards not "rushed". There is a lot to like here.
Anyway, take a breath and enjoy what this device does well; which is many things. Everyday, it seems to get a little better.

Thank you.
I'm extremely sick of the "IT DOESN'T HAVE FEATURE X THAT I KNEW IT DIDN'T HAVE???? RETURNING NOW!"
It's not a magic steve jobs reality distortion machine so people immediately fault everything about it.

emittee said:
2.) The XOOM is a damn fine reader and web browser. Sure a few things are annoying and missing (Flash & User-Agent) but they are minor and there is a solution to get around these temporary limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The User-Agent thing isn't the Xoom or Honeycomb's fault. Rather, it's websites that do not distinguish between the "Android" UAString and the "Android Mobile" UAString.
If it bothers you for a particular site, why not try brining it to the attention of the site's admin so they can fix it on their end?

Great post! And the battery life really is awesome (didn't quite expect that coming from an overclocked Droid 1, although being able to swap out batteries has made up for that)

jm9843 said:
The User-Agent thing isn't the Xoom or Honeycomb's fault. Rather, it's websites that do not distinguish between the "Android" UAString and the "Android Mobile" UAString.
If it bothers you for a particular site, why not try brining it to the attention of the site's admin so they can fix it on their end?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is an article describing what I am talking about and how to get around it. Just need to use about:debug.

emittee said:
Here is an article describing what I am talking about and how to get around it. Just need to use about:debug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know about that already but it is a work around. The permanent "fix" is for websites to treat the "Android" UAString differently than they treat the "Android Mobile" UAString.

Good post. The initial shock is due to it being an unfinished product. The potential is definitely there. They gave promises and then didn't deliver on those but said i promise a little bit later. Having the devices we know the potential and will get to see it come to fruition. It's not "early adopter" it's unfinished retail product that we paid for later promises. They will come have to be patient, but we can surely ***** in the meantime
The hardware is capable, just need software finished to utilize it properly.
Once we start getting more honeycomb apps it will help quench our desire while waiting for system updates.

jm9843 said:
Yes, I know about that already but it is a work around. The permanent "fix" is for websites to treat the "Android" UAString differently than they treat the "Android Mobile" UAString.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, sorry misunderstood what you wrote.

emittee said:
Correct, sorry misunderstood what you wrote.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not a problem. I just didn't want the idea perpetuated that this is a Xoom/Honeycomb problem.

Well it is, kind of. Google just made up a new user string (afaik) and now everyone expects that all webmasters jump into their cars to get to work to adjust the website for it...
Just give it some time...

Bonuman said:
Well it is, kind of. Google just made up a new user string (afaik) and now everyone expects that all webmasters jump into their cars to get to work to adjust the website for it...
Just give it some time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. The user string just happens to say Android... as it should. Websites grab the word android and redirect to the mobile site.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

For me there is really only one complaint, no Flash. I know most people say that you don't need it and it's really not that useful but PlayOn is an app that lets you stream Netflix and Hulu if you have Flash. So right now I could be watching Hulu and Netflix if only the Xoom had Flash. UGGG!

I'm done with all Android phones and tablets not released from Google.

FYI: This is a venting post, written spur of the moment. Probably rambling from point to point without proofreading or organizing thoughts. Don't even know if it will make sense to anyone.
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues. IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that. The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011. Google should be ashamed for letting these manufacturers get away with running an outdated version on a device that is completely cabable of running the newest iteration. Had an official means of updating to Jellybean been available I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away. For example, there has yet to be a legitimate Spotify (which I use daily), twitter, Facebook tablet app. Even the official apps they do have for "tablets" are weak in the user interface compared to iPad apps.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.

You have a very good point on it, I couldn't agree more with it.
But regarding the distribution of Android, I think that if the OS had to be the same on every phone/tablet, there wouldn't have a reason to exist so many different devices, it would be like Apple's iOS and its devices.
What makes the platform interesting is the fact that anyone can use it and alter some elements of it, a thing that you don't have in the strict control that Apple has on iOS.
Sent from my MB525 using xda app-developers app

I agree with you in certain points - as for update procedures in general.
I am still very annoyed by the update politics of the Transformer, since the officially offered upgrades caused so
many troubles for me, as random reboots and freezing ,......
On top of it, skilled people in this forum then manage to get nice kernels and ROMs done which are just
much better in performance and stability compared to stock, that you really do wonder who the heck ASUS is hiring
I found finally a stable combo for me based on ICS but failed so far for JB.
I am at the moment testing different JB EOS and kernel combos but experience still issues.
This can become indeed kind of boring....
Your view comparing the great support of Apple on the other hand I don't share completely. It is basically the same as for their Desktop/Laptops.
It is really so much easier to only support a handfulll of devices than thousands of different combinations. Sure, you have a point that
you benefit when you choose one of their devices. But bluntly I become afraid of the growing power of Apple, since I really embrace choice.
Their are always people who prefer a certain different device because it helps their needs ( look at all the different screen sizes for Android and
then check Apple), me I prefer e.g. HW keyboard for a mobile phone.
But then I prefer as well Linux and the choice to put together your preferred OS over a non-customizable MacOSX ...
BTW: I own as well Apple devices and this is not supposed to become a flame thread, please

At the end of the day its down to us as individuals what we buy.
The reviews are not always impartial but certainly a good starting point, but i find researching any product i buy before hand a must now a days.
Great example was when i had bought my gtab - if i had read about it properly i would have know Samsung are one of the worst for updates.....but then again none of the manufacturers promise any future upgrades - maybe again we are just expecting something that we were never told we were going to get??
Never had an issue with my TF but i agree you should not have to rely on a developers site to get "improved" versions of the software - but if i had an Ipad i would have no doubt jailbroken it to improve my ipad experience aswel, just like ive done in the past with ipod touches etc. Would i get another TF - yes - im looking to get the Infinity as i still feel that the Asus TF fits my needs and is still one of the best supported tablets out there.
So the moral of the story is nothings perfect, the infos out there......we just need to be a little more astute as individuals and put the time into looking at the pros and cons before we buy. We spend the money and make the choice - not Google, Asus or Apple.:good:

ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's more or less impossible unless you managed to corrupt the first few EMMC blocks that contain the apx mode code. Which you have to know what you're doing to wipe.
Boot into apx mode, install the naked apx driver, then use Easyflasher to flash back to stock

ultmontra08 said:
In my haste to, you know, have the newest version of Android running on my Transformer, I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer. There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I would not have spent so much of my time rooting and testing ROMs to make sure I have a consistent user experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need to update Android unless it's a big jump like going from Honeycomb to Ice Cream Sandwich going to all that trouble to Root, Install a custom Recovery, Install a custom ROM for a minor update like Jelly Bean is silly what could you possibly need from Jelly Bean that Ice Cream Sandwich can't already do I bet the only reason is "It's the latest" and Asus are officially going to release Jelly Bean for the Transformer.
ultmontra08 said:
There are tons of great ROMs built by the awesome development community, but I'm just sick of having to try out multiple ROMs just to find one that works without issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately if you want to use something other then the stock ROM it's a process of trial and error I tried Android Revolution HD ROM for example (popular ROM) and had problems with my Transformer not responding in sleep mode and random reboots I found that Cyanogenmod was stable for my device every device is different so the trial and error process is unavoidable.
ultmontra08 said:
IMO, the fault is split between Google and the hardware manufacturers. Google should force manufacturers to ship phones and tablets with stock Android. It is Google's system and they should have the control to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ultmontra08 said:
I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google Android is licensed as an open source operating system so Google doesn't have any power to tell manufactures they can't make their own version of Android to sell with their hardware or when you receive updates that's all the manufacturer.
ultmontra08 said:
since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Asus have actually been great with Android updates for the Transformer just a bit slow.
ultmontra08 said:
The manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves for not being able to release an update to the latest OS within a few weeks of the release, jellybean, and on a tablet that was only launched in the US in April 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't understand that it takes time to develop and test a new operating system on a device the process isn't as simple as you think it is you wouldn't want to suddenly get an update from Asus and then be complaining that it's unstable would you?.
ultmontra08 said:
there has yet to be a legitimate twitter, Facebook tablet app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are using a Tablet the screen is wide enough to be able to acceptably use a web browser for these tasks so you don't really need a specific App developed, it's really only necessary for Mobile due to small screens.
ultmontra08 said:
I look at Apple; the structure and consistency they have in regards to software updates. The first gen iPad received updates until iOS 5 for two years. Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you prefer Apple feel free to switch but while having a range of hardware options does have it's down falls it gives you and developers more freedom and choice where as Apple will always have a small limited choice range.

Just get a Windows Phone or Windows 8 tablet. I am too, one of those who are totally sick about Android.
You know, I bought Asus Transformer TF101 right on launch and YOU HAVE NO idea how excited I am. But things started to change after using it for a day, lags, crashes, limited apps.
I've been waiting and waiting for months before ICS came, but a lot of issues are still left unresolved. Asus firmware is very prone to crashes.
I've been flashing ROM after ROM and wasted so many days on this... No way I will ever get an Android again.

LastBattle said:
Just get a Windows Phone ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Talk about limited apps...

Eh, the way I look at it, ill have this tablet forever and by the time its so scratched and old I can give it to my kids and I can get the latest and greatest NEXUS having learned my lesson buying non NEXUS.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda app-developers app

im on jb rom from team EOS, this is the only jb rom i use until now. using nova launcher makes it almost perfect buttery smooth (perfect without Widgets on the screen) .
it's easy to find good rom without having to try all of them. just read people's comment. go to last page and see how many complaints user's has.

Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.

ultmontra08 said:
I totally destroyed it and cannot get it to be recognized in any USB form on my computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried Wheelie?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1676845

Android Revolution HD and be done with it. Why the need for the latest and greatest when you can use what works? I used to be an HTC fanboy, until I got the mytouch 4g slide. I hated that phone so much. I love Sense, but just the phone was.... eh. I'm very happy with my Galaxy S3. I feel like I should have opted for the Nexus, but I'm happy with my purchase.
I still have a G1 sitting on my dresser with a charged battery just in case I feel like rockin it oldschool. I'm an OG Android user. Been using android ever since the release of the G1. I do love vanilla android, but what Samsung did with TouchWiz is just short of amazing. I used to run MIUI on my HTC Vision, I ran it for a few hours on my S3, and had to go back to TouchWiz!!
And what was posted earlier, why are you using apps on a tablet when the browser works perfectly for all those websites? Apps are more of a phone thing, screen sizes sub-5"

The update from Honeycomb to ICS was a huge one and we got it, it was not bug free but good enough to get developers working. JB is not that big update unless you need Google Now.

wow i dont know where to start. i really dont want to turn this into an ios vs android flame war. but youre completly out of your mind. first of all you have to look at it from the carriers, hardware manf, and googles point of veiw.
now hardware manuf. , and carriers have it in their best interest to not release updates for all the previous gen devices from a year or two ago, even if they are capable of running the new versions. this way the new devices look more attractive to current and potential customers.
another thing is that you cant really compare the updates from iphone-iphone3g-iphone3gs-iphone4-iphone4s-iphone5-and probably in a couple months the iphone5s that wont do anything more exciting than the last model did. same thing with the ipads. before you know it you have a drawer full of iphones that look the same and dont really do anything different.
then you have android. approx 800,000 new android devices are activated every day. EVERY EFFIN DAY. now thats insane.
how many devices that didnt originally come with ios can now run ios better than they ran their org stock os? for example there are tons of devices that came stock with windows mobile/symbian/webos etc etc and they can now run many different versions of android.
my htc HD, my htc HD2, my hp touchpad, and those are just the ones ive owned. theres tons of others that were given new life because of android and the dev community.
another thing that doesnt make sense is how you can blame google, and the hardware manufacturers and the carriers for 3rd party apps that they have no involvement in. there are millions of developers making millions of apps for millions of devices. its not googles job to make sure they run perfectly on every device. thats the deveolpers fault if facebook app works better on one device than it does on another.
you see iphone and ipad apps dont really have that problem because all the devices are exactly the same. screen size/resolution doesnt change very much at all, and new features are a bore. "oh yay the new iphone can make face time calls over a cell connection and isnt limited to wifi anymore" so what they should have been able to do that years ago.
its also not googles or the hardware manuf. fault if you knowingly go against their waranty terms and screw up your device. thats the risk you knew was there. and its part of the learning process. things like unlocking bootloaders, building custom roms, modifying hardware, cross compiling drivers and kernels, overclocking, and overall getting he most out of your device, is not for kids.
yes the typical ios fanboy just wants to get his facebook updates and be able to locate the nearest starbucks, or genius bar, just by asking siri.
but the android dev comunity and the devices they work on are doing it right. why should you be told what you can and cant do with your device? why should you pay more for a device that only does less. why should you sleep on the sidewalk for 7 days to be first in line to get the new lame updated iphone that costs double and doesnt do double.
the hp touchpad is a great example of an awesome device that was on sale for 99-150 dollars from hp. it currently runs ICS like a champ, and will be getting JB roms that rock. i also have a tf101 asus that runs JB eos like WHOA! overclocked on both cores, awesome tegra2 chip. expandable memory, AND A NORMAL HEADPHONE PORT AND USB PORT. even a nice little hdmi port. its an old device already and it still blows he doors off any current gen ipad.
then theres the newer mk802 devices and hackberry A10 boards that will do anything a high end smartphone will do for 50 bucks and hooks right up to your tv. LETS see apple tv or roku do that.
bottom line is that you dont understand how this really works, and youre getting frustrated and giving up instead of learning and becoming better and the tech.
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------
redrol said:
Using the EOS build 74 with KAT 1.4 and nothing else yields a Transformer that works perfectly for me minus the GPS. I know that people with the dock have a different set of issues but honest, my TF with EOS and KAT runs better than any stock ROM. The difference is amazing. Web browsing is very very fast, I can play all my 720P videos via SMB streaming with BSplayer.
So after more than a year my TF works as I expected it to out of the box.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i just updated with eos jb rom today and its so much faster than the stock asus ics rom. i was really surprise, because its still got a ways to go.
---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 PM ----------
Then you devices that are put out by Android manufacturers, new models are frequent and in the furry to try and saturate the market with tablets, they forget about the one that came out the day before. Too many screen sizes, different processors, causes developers to shy away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just to clarify a couple of things. There's no such thing as Android Manufacturers. well i guess with the exception of googles devices that they release is as close as you could come to calling them and android manufacturer, but the rest are not Android manufacturers. and when you think about it the screen sizes are usually pretty consistent even across different hardware manuf. you had 2.8"/3.5"/3.8"/ 4.2's were common for a while. now youre seeing mini tablet/phones in the 4.7-5+ range. but there arent that many sizes to worry about development wise. same with tablets. 7"-8"-9.7"-10.1" etc etc. same with the cpu and gpu arcitecture. you got your arms, your tegras, your mali 400's, etc etc theres an android device for everyone for anything.
i also love how my buddies iphone 5 wont display netflix properly or pandora correctly on the new screen size/dimension. maybe the iphone5s ver. 2.1 will have fixed that. in a couple years.
I know the general public will probably never care that their phone/tablet doesn't receive the newest Android update, they call their phones "droids". That's because they don't know what they are missing since the manufacturers do not care about updating the firmware and they are running terrible skinned versions of the OS. I enjoy using my Galaxy Nexus on Verizon, but even that does not get updated from Google. Google needs to reassess how they distribute the OS and to who. Maybe it needs to be a little closed and vertical. It could help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the general public doesnt care that their phones arent getting the newest rom/kernel versions although alot of them do. android seems to realease new versions as the hardware advances. they grow with the advancing power and abilities of devices. you wouldnt really expect a first generation tmobile g1 to run the latest jellybean version would you? its almost as if the hardware cannot really come out faster than the os to support it. everytime you hear of a new android version theres a whole new generation of way better spec'd devices that shortly follow. sorta opposite of apple, they release devices that are barely on par with devices that were released over 6 months ago or longer. if carriers dont want o update devices in order to entice customers to upgrade then i understand that. theyre in business to make a profit. i really dont see how restricting and limiting android would help in any way at all. thats the great thing about android. its just linux with a few things on top. and that is the nail in the coffin right there. unlimited customization and hackability.

haxin said:
YOU EITHER MASTER TECHNOLOGY OR TECHNOLOGY WILL MASTER YOU!! thats all for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMEN!

Why don't Operating Systems give you choice any more?

I can get on board with Windows Phone 8 or even IOS but the only thing I cannot stand is how they don't allow you to have choice. On Android even though it doesn't come as standard any more, I can still download the APK and install Flash Player myself. Average users can just use the OS and never install flash but I'm still allowed to install it as it's a personal need.
Now Windows Phone 8 is out and it is another OS that doesn't allow you to install software they haven't approved. It just pisses me off so much, especially seeing as they don't have BBCiPlayer yet which uses flash. I mean everyone will tell you these days that flash sucks, no one uses it and yet every site I seem to go to does, even Youtube has lots of flash only content you cannot play with HTML5. I mean is HTML5 even going to become the new standard? I don't see people picking it up very fast.
I just don't get why people don't want choice any more, they seem quite happy to defend being controlled and told how to use their phone. I find IOS harder to use than Android and many people I meet do, I mean things like sharing files between your device and your PC which should be so easy has become so hard. You used to be able to just plug in your phone and it would show as a HDD, now however with IOS and I'm sure Windows Phone 8, you cannot do that. I find it funny because people actually do find these so called user friendly devices harder to use. It's like Windows 8 now and how their new Metro UI has tried to make things look so simple that they've hidden all the options. Things once simple to do, you have to right click and then search in settings to find they've removed the feature to keep the UI looking clean.
I'm just sick of it, the least Microsoft could do is allow third party software to be installed as an option for advanced users. This would at least make up for the lack of functionality on a new OS... no BBCiPlayer? No problem, use the Desktop site which I always do on Android anyways as it has far more functionality and content than the app, the same goes for Youtube.

HTML5 is the new standard. It is adobe's policy and attempts to try to maintain the monopoly over the market-share, combined with pure ignorance from established web developers that still keep it alive.
Installing third party software on a phone is kinda dangerous. Your phone is not a desktop PC, it has limited uses, and it should be regarded as such...
Oh and there is really no reason not to have your functional app on the marketplace. If your app is that awesome and yet you can't get it from the marketplace, then there is something wrong with it.
Don't forget about piracy.

Firstly the phone has limited uses? I've got the same Nokia phone that I've had since 2003 and it works fine. I've had the GS2 for a year and a half now and loaded countless custom roms and third party software and the phone is perfectly fine. Also on that point like I've said I've loaded countless amounts of third party software on Android from torrents or other sites and my phone has been fine. I've put lots of different firmware types on my phone and it has been fine. I don't see anything dangerous about it other than being an idiot enough to load some virus onto your phone.
Apps don't get to the market half the time not because there is anything wrong with it but because Microsoft or Apple simply don't want it on their platform. There is nothing wrong with saying you can flick this switch to open you phone but then have a warning saying you void your warranty or whatever if you brick your phone. Why don't they do this? I just think it all comes done to being scared of piracy more than anything and tbh that isn't a good enough excuse.
HTML5 isn't the new standard because 90% of the sites I go to still use flash and not HTML5. I just don't get why they'd say you can never install this on your phone, why not? All these fanboi claims of how bad it is has led to the downfall. I don't know what machines these people are using, I guess they're made up ones because I've never had a problem with flash, it has always run fine and never crashes all the time like people say... not on my GS2 and not on my Desktop. I'd say Flash is one of the most stable things on my system, I mean games crash far more often, surely ban games then for being unstable and poorly coded? Frigging barely any games are multithreaded even now, BAN THEM ALL!

^ What he said ^
All in all WP8 was a huuuge disappointment. At least for me

Venekor said:
Firstly the phone has limited uses? I've got the same Nokia phone that I've had since 2003 and it works fine. I've had the GS2 for a year and a half now and loaded countless custom roms and third party software and the phone is perfectly fine. Also on that point like I've said I've loaded countless amounts of third party software on Android from torrents or other sites and my phone has been fine. I've put lots of different firmware types on my phone and it has been fine. I don't see anything dangerous about it other than being an idiot enough to load some virus onto your phone.
Apps don't get to the market half the time not because there is anything wrong with it but because Microsoft or Apple simply don't want it on their platform. There is nothing wrong with saying you can flick this switch to open you phone but then have a warning saying you void your warranty or whatever if you brick your phone. Why don't they do this? I just think it all comes done to being scared of piracy more than anything and tbh that isn't a good enough excuse.
HTML5 isn't the new standard because 90% of the sites I go to still use flash and not HTML5. I just don't get why they'd say you can never install this on your phone, why not? All these fanboi claims of how bad it is has led to the downfall. I don't know what machines these people are using, I guess they're made up ones because I've never had a problem with flash, it has always run fine and never crashes all the time like people say... not on my GS2 and not on my Desktop. I'd say Flash is one of the most stable things on my system, I mean games crash far more often, surely ban games then for being unstable and poorly coded? Frigging barely any games are multithreaded even now, BAN THEM ALL!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, a phone has limited uses, you can't replace your PC with your phone no matter how much you want that.
Second, downloading apps from torrent is illegal. You have quite a lot of gutts to post such misery on a developer's forums, and i, as a developer, take great offense to that, so please get my sincere GTFO.
Third, Custom roms are something that android needs to survive, without it there would be no android. Windows Phone doesn't need that.
About HTML5, yes it is the standard, but people aren't forced to adapt by the standards instantly, they have a lot of time. But as this time runs out, flash will become extinct, therefore there is no reason to implement flash on new phones, as in 3 year's time, flash will be gone.
If your games have worse stability than flash I suggest you:
Get new RAM, your existing one is damaged.
Reinstall your Operating system, and don't pirate it.
Check your error logs, you will see flash is very unstable.

A ton of websites use HTML5.
Not a lot of websites use the new HTML5 video and audio elements.
A lot of the websites that do use them, either fall back to flash / Silverlight or use flash / Silverlight, first, and fall back to the HTML5 video and audio elements.
The websites that I work with, that use video and audio, do Silverlight, first, and fall back to HTML5 video and audio.
The biggest reasons are...
1: Very little native full-screen support (Chrome has it, but that's about it)
2: Firefox and Opera don't support MP4 / MP3 (we have to produce video is MP4 and WebM and audio in MP3 and OGG)
3: Our live broadcasts use the SmoothStreaming technology (only iOS and Android 3+ support that for HTML5 video - Silverlight supports it and supports most computers)
It is worth noting that I COMPLETELY agree with the point of this thread, though.
The iPhone started a trend of consumerizing smartphones.
As such, a lot of big business is still using Blackberry and Windows Mobile.
I would not be surprised, at all, if, in the next five years, we started seeing another separation of consumer versus professional.
The last few years have really tried to re-integrate the two and it hasn't worked, very well.
JJ

If 90 percent of the sites you visit still use flash then you're going to some low-quality porn sites... Also, WP8 does have disk mode, it also syncs through media player in the same way WinMo did.

mcosmin222 said:
Yes, a phone has limited uses, you can't replace your PC with your phone no matter how much you want that.
Second, downloading apps from torrent is illegal. You have quite a lot of gutts to post such misery on a developer's forums, and i, as a developer, take great offense to that, so please get my sincere GTFO.
Third, Custom roms are something that android needs to survive, without it there would be no android. Windows Phone doesn't need that.
About HTML5, yes it is the standard, but people aren't forced to adapt by the standards instantly, they have a lot of time. But as this time runs out, flash will become extinct, therefore there is no reason to implement flash on new phones, as in 3 year's time, flash will be gone.
If your games have worse stability than flash I suggest you:
Get new RAM, your existing one is damaged.
Reinstall your Operating system, and don't pirate it.
Check your error logs, you will see flash is very unstable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"downloading apps from torrent is illegal"
Uh... Not really. He never said what apps he was downloading. Torrents != piracy.

SilverHedgehog said:
"downloading apps from torrent is illegal"
Uh... Not really. He never said what apps he was downloading. Torrents != piracy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Preach, preacha!!!
I would agree that a majority of torrents are copyrighted material, but certainly not everything.
Almost every Linux distribution utilizes torrent as their main means of downloading.
JJ

Venekor said:
On Android even though it doesn't come as standard any more, I can still download the APK and install Flash Player myself. Average users can just use the OS and never install flash but I'm still allowed to install it as it's a personal need.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my Jelly Bean I can't do this.

How is having Flash choice?
Can I get Flash from Microsoft or Flash from Apple or Flash from Google? nope, all versions of flash were done by one company. That's not competition or freedom, that is lock in. If Adobe didn't like your OS and phone you didn't get Flash.
HTML5 is like a universal language for all web enabled devices, we're better without these proprietary closed and restricted plugins.

After years if constantly flashing new ROMs and such. I for one am glad to be at WP8.
"Hello, my name is LudoGris and I am a flashaholic. I recently switched to Windows Phone 8 and have not had the urge to flash anything since. I am well on my way to being cured." ?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

LudoGris said:
After years if constantly flashing new ROMs and such. I for one am glad to be at WP8.
"Hello, my name is LudoGris and I am a flashaholic. I recently switched to Windows Phone 8 and have not had the urge to flash anything since. I am well on my way to being cured." ?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got a little laugh out of this one. Thanks. I agree a bit here. That's what happened to me when I went from pre WinMo 7 to iOS. Now I'm back on Android because of how tired I was of the inability to do something as simple as customize the homescreen. Really, I don't care which one I use and, honestly, I'd use different ones at different times depending on needs and even mood. I flash a little bit with my Android but really like to get settled on something and not have to worry about it. That doesn't work out that often on Android, unfortunately. That's why I relate to the comment on "flashaholic...being cured". I'd like to try out WinPhone 8 for a little bit, but the first thing to turn me off big is the same thing that bothers me on the Win8 desktop, the integration with the MS ecosystem. I'm tied to Google apps and don't feel like switching. It makes most sense for me to use a Google OS because of the strong integration with Google apps.
All that being said, it's just a phone, it's just a desktop, just let me get what I want to get done on the two and have a real life! LOL

The basic fault with the argument here is that the ability to sideload applications has been there in various ways since WP7 came along. It wouldn't help you with your problems though. IE9 on WP7 and IE10 on WP8 simply don't have any plugin support so you wouldn't be able to add any.
The complete architecture of Android is more open and geared towards customization. The effect of that is that we frequently have Apps that don't run (well) on different OS versions, have stuttering problems or have to wait for ages and ages until the customized code gets updates. Allowing for a lot of flexibility with the system makes updating and changing code really challenging. I've encountered numerous of those problems on my GS2. Of course it's running reasonably well after I put CM9.1 on there and didn't bother to change much else but that's hardly how I would use my primary phone (installing Twitter killed Video playback for me on the Stock ROM - for whatever reason).
So basically as a consumer the tradeoff comes down to having everything work as intended without much possibilities to make the system misbehave versus a customized system that I can break at times. It seems there is not much of a middle ground there. We'll have to see how this plays out in the end as Microsoft is indeed adding integration points for developers to use to the system that make it more flexible while still enforcing certain guidelines.
On the whole Flash vs. HTML5 debate. Actually HTML5 can't replace Flash and Silverlight in many use cases. There are not even any standard proposals for certain functionalities that have been part of those Plugins for ages. Webcam-Support, DRM'd Video/Audio, etc. For those reasons alone it will be quite a long time before HTML5 really could replace them. Another important part is that there has been lots of money invested in building sites on top of those technologies. Over 90% of all Web activity still originate on classic PCs/Notebooks that have Flash support so unless your target audience is particularilly Smartphone/Tablet focussed (e.g. Gadget Blogs, etc.) you simply don't feel much pressure to move away from something that works just fine right now.
However Apple led the charge to kill Flash, Microsoft chimed in and in the end even Adobe decided to jump onto that train - even though none of them had a clue how to replace the technology. This clearly showed when Microsoft decided to revive Flash in Windows 8's Metro IE. I still doubt we will see any renewed development of Flash for mobile operating systems and it remains to be seen how long it will keep running on Android given that it has been abandonned by Adobe. It all comes down to the fact that the industry decided to move away from Flash and for better or worse that is what is happening right now. As soon as mobile really becomes important for the web industry things will start changing, right now it simply isn't or it is far easier to simply write an App then messing with a website that's working right now.

Android doesnt let you customize as much as maemo5, but still people choose it.
C'est la vie, necafé?
Personally Im enjoying wp8 for what it is: a smartphone OS. If it was a laptop Id be inclined to agree that it would be too limiting, but its not.

Slai said:
Android doesnt let you customize as much as maemo5, but still people choose it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While people like to customize, they also want to have an OS that's actually supported.

LudoGris said:
After years if constantly flashing new ROMs and such. I for one am glad to be at WP8.
"Hello, my name is LudoGris and I am a flashaholic. I recently switched to Windows Phone 8 and have not had the urge to flash anything since. I am well on my way to being cured." ?
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@LudoGris
Do you know if your device is gonna get software upgrades or have you been able to flash new software. I have the same version as you have but won't be able to flash something new on it.

itsa porno thing
Just go to the jack-shack its cheaper

I was like you : I thought using iOS or WP was a regression because of lack of freedom. I used to heavily flash my Android devices... then I discovered WP (7.5 first, then 8). I really like it because it's simple... and it's working ! No need to flash, no need to choose another launcher, no need to get lost in settings : it works ! It's stable, fluid and ergonomy is great.
I really like WP8 "launcher" AKA Metro. I think it has the best way to personalize information by choosing what is the more pertinent for each user.
I can live in a closed OS if it answer to all my needs... With WP8, it's the case !

zepretender said:
I was like you : I thought using iOS or WP was a regression because of lack of freedom. I used to heavily flash my Android devices...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We probably don't need another "me too" here, but I have to say, you've summed up my experience perfectly I was thrilled to flash AOKP's ICS and JB onto my old single-core Samsung Fascinate, and then I could get Nova Launcher with gestures and docks and more options than I can recall; but all those new features were slow, slow, slow. So I flashed the Devil kernel and tried different govenors, but of course YGWYPF and my battery life went down the tubes. I had replaced almost all the stock apps with better versions from the market, but my app collection grew to well over a hundred and I needed Titanium Backup to manage it all. So here I am doing like high-level IT support just to get my phone to work as a phone. It was very pretty but my wife was complaining about how I always missed her calls.
My new HTC 8X is such a revelation. There's nothing to do except use it, and it works perfectly. There's no lag ever; everything is right there or at most one or two clicks away, and the stock apps are just fine, thank you. Sure, I have my hit-list of missing features but none rise even to the level of annoyance, and I expect there will be improvement.
My only concern is developer interest. I read this about an IDC survey:
According to IDC, which surveyed almost 5,000 developers, Windows 8 and Windows Phone are in a lot of trouble. While iOS (iPhone, iPad), Android (handsets and tablets), and HTML5/mobile web fall well above that crucial 50 percent mark, Windows 8 and Windows Phone fall well short. Only 33 percent of developers said they were very interested in writing Windows 8 “Metro” apps. And only 21 percent were interested in doing so for Windows Phone.
(Fully 85 percent of responders were very interested in writing iPhone apps, and 83 percent were very interested in writing iPad apps. Android handsets and tablets came in at 76 percent and 66 percent, respectively, whereas HTML5/mobile web was at 66 percent as well.)
So we'll see. I think the new handsets from Nokia and HTC will help draw attention to how good the O/S is; but it seems Microsoft is trying now to make itself into a better Apple, only Apple was there first.

[Q] Do you lose anything by rooting?

I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868

Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.

DroidBois said:
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2001868
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
SacGuru said:
Everything will work fine. All that I have ever found not working is my employer's software developed only for the employees. No mass produced app will give you any trouble.
Enjoy CM10!
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.

Rirere said:
You lose everything, including your home and first-born child.
In all seriousness, just about everything will work fine if you only root. Some custom ROMs do introduce incompatibility problems, but it's usually on a pretty small scale (an app here or there might not work if your ROM/kernel choice tweaks how the device handles graphics, for example). By and large, you should be fine, but be careful of certain content apps that will refuse to play on rooted devices.
Come now, you know that's not entirely true. Many stuck-up content providers won't support rooted devices, and you'll also get the standard "unsupported device" claim if you're rooted or have an unlocked bootloader from apps like Google Wallet. By and large though, OP, you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.

SacGuru said:
You are right, but I was responding to what the OP had asked. Movies from play will work just fine afaik. And yes, there would be some app developers who won't support modified devices (I've heard of some trouble with the Sky tv app), but then again on some devices there are ways to temporarily unroot to allow such apps to run.
Again, how the device handles graphics can be modified as well. I had trouble with the Naked Browser before I modified the dpi using an xposed framework module.
In simple terms, so as to not confuse things, I would say that the huge majority of apps would give him no problems, and he would be missing out a lot if he refuses to root his device in the fear of one or two apps not working.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.

Rirere said:
There's a fine line between "not confus[ing] things" though and glossing over very real issues. It's significantly better for a new user to go into rooting aware of potential problems than rush in and get screwed on something because they expected rooting to be a land of sunshine, rainbows, and daisies, and found it was actually one that also had blood and tears.
That's especially true when you start getting into things like XPosed modules, which, while simple are much more than a new user should really have to contend with. Full stock+rooted is probably the safest introduction because it's so comparatively trivial to revert if you blow yourself up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.

SacGuru said:
I know people who went on to custom roms the day they rooted their phones. I myself used one within a fortnight of using my first android device. Rooting isn't exactly rocket science.
I would really like to know what percentage of apps you believe do not work on custom roms/rooted phones out of all apps in the world. Impossible though it might be to have an exact number, I have a slight suspicion you have a larger-than-what-could-be-true figure in your head. While at it, do mention some of the blood and tears you have had while using your device.
In all the time I have been using android devices, I have only once encountered an app which I couldn't run on my device, and I believe that was purely due to lack of effort on my part.
Again, many people turn on to modifying their devices only because they want to use a custom rom, as the OP already wants to. I have never seen a comment by an user who regrets rooting his device as an app isn't working. I have seen numerous from users who are disappointed with the capabilities of their unrooted devices.
Had you understood my second comment, you would have realized that not only had I agreed with what you had said, I had also, unlike you, actually mentioned a couple of apps which might have problems on a rooted device. Glossing over issues might be wrong, but complicating simple questions is worse, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.

Edit

SacGuru said:
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we're reading the comment a little differently. This is why I brought up what I did.
I'm about to root my Nexus 10. Will I lose anything? Such as some Google Apps refusing to work like paid for movies or books or anything if it detects it's running on a rooted device?
Or do all Google and other apps still work fine?
Anything to watch out for? I'm considering Cyanogen, and will root with Mskip's tool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on the questions being asked, I think it's reasonable to assume OP doesn't know anything about rooting or ROMs, so I'm being a little more liberal in looking at this comment than I would be otherwise. As such, I'd rather err on giving them information a little outside the original scope than too little.

Rirere said:
You're starting to get a little touchy there.
I've been rooted and flashing ROMs for several years now, so I'm hardly new to the field. Nor do I think that there's even a large portion of apps out there that have trouble on rooted devices-- because that is not the point. From an end-user perspective, it only takes the loss of one app or a misbehaving one to ruin the experience. A great day-to-day example is Foldersync-- while the app "runs" correctly, if it detects you have root privileges it will spam superuser requests to perform a better sync. If you deny the request, your sync may fail, and if you accept it, the app potentially causes a wakelock. Random behavior can be just as bad as an outright crash.
OP's interest with ROMs is also a point of greater concern than just root. You really don't have to look too far to see people having problems, especially if you every venture outside of Nexus-land. The last hulabaloo I saw over this was back in the HTC One forums because a popular AOSP ROM had a misconfigured graphics driver that caused a few games to fall over and die.
As far as blood, sweat, and tears, try a bootlooping Galaxy Player 4.0 with a wiped /efs that was essentially softbricked for about two months before I had a free six or seven hours to manually dd everything back into place. I've also had my share of bootloops on Nexus devices while experimenting, although with a little fastboot or adb knowledge it's not hard to get out of them.
I have seen plenty of people regret their root or flash. I don't think you quite remember how bad the first bootloop or problem can be if you have never messed with this stuff before. Fastboot and adb are pretty easy to learn to use, but when you're first starting and every black screen seems like the death knell, it's a different matter altogether. Yes, I saw your post, and I understood, but it's a lot better to play it safe, especially at first, then charge ahead unaware of the consequences. Don't tell me you haven't seen people whining in countless ROM threads because they've done something stupid, usually because they didn't know not to.
Bottom line: better to play it safe and know than not. The only point I made up top was that you have to be 100% aware that you're playing with fire before you get burned. That doesn't mean fire isn't useful or that it's scary, but it does mean you have to be careful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of my second post was that there are alternatives - to roms, to mods, to apps, to hardware limitations. The availability of these alternatives is amongst the prime reasons we love android, you and I.
The Op is not asking us about Softbricks/bootlooping devices, or black screens. He is asking only about apps. As I said before, I haven't yet seen a comment from someone who wants to unroot his device just because a particular app does not work. It might be possible that with your experience you might have seen one or two, but as you mention yourselves, people sometimes tend to be stupid.
It's unfortunate that I sounded touchy to you. My only answer to the Op still remains that it would be highly unlikely for him to have trouble with apps, even though there could be apps which do not work on modded phones (as I did mention in my very first comment). Somehow your answer seemed pretty similar to mine ('just about everything would be fine'), so I just wondered why you had to mention to me problems with apps like the google wallet which are easily fixed.
By now, I am sure both of us understand what the other is talking about. Also, the op has enough info to take a decision on his own. My only qualm is that the inclusion of some seemingly complex terminology might turn him off rooting his device
Sent from my GT-N7100 or the Nexus 10, heaven knows.
Those who help noobs go to heaven. True story.

Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.

DroidBois said:
Wow... I just love you guys so much... So much detailed analysis here..
I've rooted all my devices in the past and generally not had any issues if I use a mature solid tool and ROM, I've only had issues with more 'pioneering' ROM's and tools, but for good reason. So I try to stick to the stable well tested mature varieties like Cyanogen and well supported tools, generally where the developer gets some payment (as reward encourages good development).
I'm more concerned with anything like content apps so Google Books / Magazines / Movies / Zinio etc or any other apps that may kick a stink about running on a rooted device?
Spotify seems fine on a rooted device so far though (Nexus 4).
It may not be an issue for some, but I am one of the (possibly rare?) people who PAY for content - specifically reading material. And I have an extensive library so I don't want to lose that.
I'm not so concerned on the technical front as the Nexus should be fairly well community supported and understood mainstream devices and likely to have stable development and mature community support.
I have the mskip tool ready to go so I'm fine with that.
It's not a debate about rooting vs not. I always root because simple things like having a quick tile for WLAN AP can make a HUGE difference through the day as opposed to this retarded idea that people ENJOY diving deep through menu layers for simple on / off functions - it drives me completely and utterly insane over the course of a day. So I like to set up and streamline my device how I need it, and even have accurate time with root tools like ClockSync, or better security support to lock out spyware crap like FaceSpy and so on (if root helps) and also, being able to properly back up my phone.
Or employer mandated junk like Afaria that some companies mandate for BYOD-to-work devices, not that I have any idea what it's for as opposed to a trusted workable solution like Google Apps (I guess everyone has to make their own thing to put their own buggy bloated stamp on everything). Will that mandated junk still work?
The biggest problem I have still is this MTP *CRAP* which which I believe you can't work around? That's another story and Google should be shot for this.
But root vs not has little to do with that. I guess we're stuck with this MTP crap no matter what we do (thanks Google, you tools).
Thanks for the advice here though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not had any problems with Google Play services and root, although most of my books are sideloaded after ripping DRM off of Amazon purchases (I don't really believe in the idea of a "perpetual lease"). As someone who has spent time working on that "employer junk" for corporate use, it may annoy the living **** out of you as a rooted user, but from a corporate standpoint it's actually pretty damn important.
Now, as far as MTP goes, don't quote me on this, but I remember seeing a setting in DriveDroid a while back (it's an app that lets you mount an ISO on your computer by connecting your device) that would let you change your USB connection mode to something other than MTP/PTP. I dont' remember the acronym, unfortunately, but it was a lot more in line with the way a "standard" USB device would connect (with the attendant issues of not using FUSE).