Related
I have an app idea that I would like to develop... except that I don't have the slightest clue on how to program in ANY language, but I AM willing to learn.
My idea is to have a barcode scanner that takes the scan from the camera, and then cross references it with online sites. This can either tell you what the prices are online, so you can compare the prices to whatever store you're in, or it can be used to make a massive catalog of your belongings, like your DVD's, CD's, books, etc.
I've got Visual C++ 9.0 Express installed so I figured that'd be the best place to start. The question is... Where do I start? I don't think I could even make a Hello World on this thing...
You won't get far with an Express Edition. These Editions can't handle Windows Mobile applications.
You must buy (or install a trial) VS Professional and the Windows Mobile 6 SDK.
this is "kinda" related http://www.koushikdutta.com/search/label/Bar Code
oldsap said:
this is "kinda" related http://www.koushikdutta.com/search/label/Bar Code
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Click to collapse
Thanks! I see that he's thinking of making exactly what I'm asking for!
maxstegi said:
You won't get far with an Express Edition. These Editions can't handle Windows Mobile applications.
You must buy (or install a trial) VS Professional and the Windows Mobile 6 SDK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was afraid of that.
I do know that I have an old copy of VC++ 6.0 SOMEWHERE from many years ago with my original major, but I never really learned how to use it, even if I did find it. I'll search tomorrow. I'm tired and I'm heading to bed now.
Barcorama might be another good place to start. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=368798 .
the idea reminded me of the cuecat, which I got for free maybe 8 years ago at a radioshack. i think that project ultimately failed - since i havent heard about it since. this really has nothing to do with windows mobile, but it does have to do with your idea...
Try iNigma, it's very fast and work 'live' http://www.i-nigma.com/personal/Default.asp
korro said:
Try iNigma, it's very fast and work 'live' http://www.i-nigma.com/personal/Default.asp
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iNigma only does 2d barcodes and therefore it doesn't work with UPC's.
ricethief said:
Barcorama might be another good place to start. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=368798 .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This sounds like a step in the right direction.
maxstegi said:
You won't get far with an Express Edition. These Editions can't handle Windows Mobile applications.
You must buy (or install a trial) VS Professional and the Windows Mobile 6 SDK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
C# Express is actually the version I use to develop Barcorama. The only major problem with the Express edition (my opinion) is the lack of remote (on-device) debugging...
"I do know that I have an old copy of VC++ 6.0 SOMEWHERE from many years ago with my original major"
only at version visual studio 2002 if I recall correct did it support windows mobile
"iNigma only does 2d barcodes and therefore it doesn't work with UPC's."
a camera can work with 2d barcodes as easy as with 1d ones
recall a project with them using 2d barcodes to transfer data between 2 pda's
there are commercial apps out there which already reads both 1d and 2d barcodes
found many code tutorials which worked and were free tough dident work very well as the lighting have to be ok good
and the camera have to better then VGA like older devices have
not sure how you will get around the fact that barcodes are not really unique numbers
they are just numbers and 2 products can have the same number
in which case the store or storage or whatever
place their own barcodes over to tell them apart
but 2 diff stores could use 2 diff replament barcodes
any news on that one?
seems to be working for android:
http://compare-everywhere.com/
http://www.biggu.com/
is there any (commercial) app for winmo which can du this?
thanks
Couple of points:
1) You do not need Visual Studio to develop for Windows Mobile devices if you program in C/C++.
Just download Embedded Visual C++ 4 from Microsoft (its free!) and off you go.
2) Writing a bar-code recognition software is a bit too much for someone who claims to have no knowledge in development.
You need to learn the programming language first, then the specifics of programming under win32 and its WM version and then you have to dig around for various camera APIs since there is no real standard for accessing the camera on different devices.
All that provided you find an available image recognition algorithm you can use 'as is'.
3) Microsoft use to let people download a prototype app (no code just exe) that did exactly what you are planning, but I can't remember its name.
4) Redugar, product barcodes have a worldwide standard pattern: they consist of a country code, then manufecturers code and finally a product code (and posible a product category, I can't remember for sure).
I do know that a company can't just slap a code on their product (unless its for internal use). They need to register, and then they get a range of numbers assigned to them.
So while the product number part may be random and everlapping, I beleve in combination with country an manufecturer code the numbers are uniqu enogh for the perpose od such an app.
So does anyone have anything that works as a barcode scanner for products? I just saw the G1's barcode scanner and its accuracy on the product is simply amazing..take for instance, I scanned a bottle of gatorade and it even told me what flavor it was haha
Anyone know if there's something like this for us PPC users?
I want it!!!
yea this already exists on android. once we have a camera driver working (which is currently being developed) then the barcode scanner will work.
this is all on my htc vogue, btw. android runs almost flawlessly now thanks to dzo's hard work.
android is the future.
http://www.i-nigma.com/personal/register.asp
i-nigma is freeware AFAIK and appears to do exactly what the op is looking for
Best regards,
-boggsie
boggsie said:
http://www.i-nigma.com/personal/register.asp
i-nigma is freeware AFAIK and appears to do exactly what the op is looking for
Best regards,
-boggsie
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Click to collapse
Its my understanding that Inigma is a 2D scanner and what we really need is a 1D scanner...
Why do you need a scanner? Isn't a bar code just a pictorial representation of ~ 10 to 15 digits... How hard would it be to just type the numbers in and then send them off to the site to provide the necessary cross referencing? It seems like the scanner is just a cool addition but not really necessary.
JokeZony0u said:
So does anyone have anything that works as a barcode scanner for products? I just saw the G1's barcode scanner and its accuracy on the product is simply amazing..take for instance, I scanned a bottle of gatorade and it even told me what flavor it was haha
Anyone know if there's something like this for us PPC users?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Barcorama is pretty good, here is the link:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=368798
cseserv said:
use this for 1d
http://www.quickmark.com.tw/En/basic/hotnews.asp?#200903021
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Wow, I didn't know they had expanded it. I found another one called barcorama but the camera on my phone isn't good enough to use it. Off I go to download quickmark!
http://code.google.com/android/
incase anyones not familiar with android, check that site out.
im not sure why there isnt more development or developers that are going after this in terms of getting it working on all devices? im currently using it on my vogue and its amazing. definately better UI in terms of EVERYTHING. its open source, so i think developers should be all over this! has so much potential its kind of ridiculous
vogue thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265
its working about 80% now thanks to amazing developer martin.
the browser and everything (overall UI) are so much better and smoother than windows mobile! and being that its open source with google ENCOURAGING development of apps and themes and skins and whatnot, i think this is the next best thing to happen to ppc's.
THIS is the actual iphone killer.
just some samples
on a vogue (very smooth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0z9bWiAT44
just a demo of the browser (mine is actually a little smoother than this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FpDDEVWtk
the reason im posting this here is because i was the first one to post in this section with manilla2d (when udk first released it), asking whether we can get this on other devices, and look what happened with that. if we can get the amazing developers from here to work on this like they worked on m2d, then wow this will be amazing!
Yeah, even I'm suprised at the low level of excitement of porting this to all devices. Hoping for some real development . Btw, those videos are pretty impressive.
Akshay
Yeah... I'm a little surprised too.
I have a Vogue now, so I'm OK, but I'd love to see somebody pick this project up for the Touch Pro. It seems to be very similar to the G1, so the porting would be a lot more complete than the porting to the Vogue.
Hopefully somebody with the skills (read: not me) will undertake this.
it'll pick up. i say in 6 months to a year people will snap out of the apple app dev craze. but from a dev point of view, apple is where its at right now. the amount of money you could make is a driver by all means.
htc will also be a key part in this. when they start to release better looking hardware, perhaps something on par with the diamond....you'll see a user increase. and user increase translate into dev interest. so just hang in there....i think you'll get what you want soon.
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
S.V.I said:
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it is always pointless. We do it because we can (and because we don't want to do anything while at work)
(and much like bluemetal, we are all tired of the same old look and functionality in our WM devices). Then again, it can always be worse....
we could all have iphones
Anyways, I am looking forward to someone porting this to the Blue Angel.
The bigest stumbling block for me is lack of Exchange support. GPS isn't really necessary with the cell tower triangulation available. The accuracy is getting better. It will never be as tight as GPS but close is good enough for me. I can do with out 3G (I wish I had it) I don't enjoy the experience with the little screen. It's like looking at the ocean through a porthole. A 5 inch screen with much better resolution would be great. I use it for quick info but surfing is not fun.
I do like the idea of going linux on the phone. It would be that much closer to having a truely mobile desktop. We wouldn't have to install resource hogging shells that ride on top of an already bloated today screen to get better customization.
I think the biggest problem overall though is the hardware needed will put a lot of older equipment like my little wizard out to pasture. I don't have the funds to rush out an purchase a new phone. And yes I think all the bugs will need to be shaken out for a while before I take the plunge. Maybe by the 2nd or third generation of Android things will be a little less "bleeding edge". It all looks great now but I rely on my phone too much to gamble on an untried system.
To be completely honest, I too am suprised by the lack of progress.
This is a complete replacement for Windows Mobile: something we've all only dreamed about up until now. It will have a wicked Dev community around it soon enough.
There were a hell of a lot of efforts to get the Beta running. But now... nothing?
*so confused
The worst part is, it'd be gorgeous on my LG KS20, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon: no one loves us KS20 owners. Guess you were all just jealous of our drivers.
bluemetalaxe said:
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't know if you read my whole post, but i never said "hey everyone lets run something 80% finished on our ppcs."
waiting and hoping isnt going to do anything, thats why i started this thread. to get more attention instead of sitting and waiting for something we arent sure is going to ever happen.
im glad a lot of other people are on the same page as me, wondering why there is barely any development for this. thanks for the support guys
lets get some devs in here to weigh in on this!
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
you'd think more people would be starting to port.. because god is that g1 terrible, you have to have sharpened pencils for fingers to type on that flush keyboard)
Mort said:
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok now these reasons make a lot of sense. im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said. but ok, all of your other reasons make complete sense. im sure the future releases of android will only get better.
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
jakub_w said:
im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who knows? AFAIK, the order numbers aren't that bad, and all those reviewers give some feedback, too. I mean, it's only a week since the G1 is available at all, and, as said, it's not very attractive so far. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars just to provide Google with requests and code changes and T-Mobile and HTC with money...
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the UI is the really big thing about Android. You can even replace it completely, and I don't know (yet) where the limits / design guides are for applications. I just hope it doesn't get as confusing as Linux on the desktop, where even a Gnome or KDE desktop can be modified so far that it's almost as hard to switch distros as switching from Windows to MacOS...
The important things about Android are more in the basic technology, imho, like
- A stable, timeless system core (*nix is older than me, so "modern" is not quite correct - that goes for MacOS X, too, btw...)
- Seamless integration of connection management and phone functions (opposed to WM, where it still acts like a makeshift patchwork, and with every update less APIs are working...)
- Portable application framework (Java, lots of system APIs)
- Simple application installation (no "is this EXE a PC setup or the PPC executable?", "How the hell do I install a CAB file?", ...)
However, I still wonder how/if Andoid will support direct PC synchronization (for shared files, contacts, appointments, music, ...) and how fast and memory consumptive the required Java VM is... (Well, at least none of the G1 reviews I read complained about that, so it seems to be faster than .NET on WM...)
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
jakub_w said:
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely agree with you on that. Thing is though is that this is a completely different environment with a different set of drivers (and rules) which makes (for example) modifying their parameters to allow for keys normally used for certain functions in WM to be used for something completely different. Also OpenGL (ES) is all that is used on *nix OSes whether or not they run on full or embedded hardware. All that's needed is the driver for the graphics chip. Microsoft wants you to use their proprietary D3D not OpenGL (ES) hence why it was impossible to have OpenGL (ES) before. Also TF3D uses DirectX and not OpenGL ES AFAIK.
Android is great. Only thing I need is a way to get the SDcard image working and a HTC Touch Pro to port Android, Angstrom and/or OpenMoko to, I'd be set.
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
joel2009 said:
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weeell....
- It's Linux and Open Source (some people wouldn't touch a closed system with a stick...)
- It's nice to be prepared when you get the running system
- There is a device with that OS
- The documentation is way better than Microsoft's
- There's a good chance the API will remain compatible, so it doesn't hurt to start early (opposed to WM, where some basic features can/could only be done with device dependant or inofficial APIs, which were dropped in newer updates...)
Get applications like you can get for the iPhone?
I have just had a 'demo' of a load of free apps for the Iphone on a colleagues Iphone and I must admit I was impressed and very surprised, I had always discounted the Iphone as an option for me due to the many (well documented) short commings for power users. However after seeing such applications as the Tioti TV+ which is so quick and smooth and lets you send remote record requests to a Sky+ box - somehting I have been desperate for. Along with great film and cinema applications and many other very neat applications which aren't available on Windows Mobile, I am begining to wonder if I made the wrong decision in purchassing my touch HD??!
Just thought I would share my thoughts with you all....I am sure I will get a barrage of abuse for this post, but would love to know if we think the future of windows mobile may include some more intuitive and consistently looking applications.
P.S. If anyone knows of a SKY+ remote record app which is designed for Windows Mobile I would love to know!
A related question from a relative novice when it comes to downloading and installing apps... is there anything like the iPhone appstore for Windows mobile apps - where applications are listed with screenshots, descriptions, what phones/resolution they work on, etc? I've seen lots of great home-grown apps, and lots of vendor websites that seem to be pedalling a specific product, but haven't seen anything that attempts to bring it all together?
Thanks,
Dave
davehodgkinson said:
A related question from a relative novice when it comes to downloading and installing apps... is there anything like the iPhone appstore for Windows mobile apps - where applications are listed with screenshots, descriptions, what phones/resolution they work on, etc? I've seen lots of great home-grown apps, and lots of vendor websites that seem to be pedalling a specific product, but haven't seen anything that attempts to bring it all together?
Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
www.handango.com for example....
jrshodges said:
Get applications like you can get for the iPhone?
I have just had a 'demo' of a load of free apps for the Iphone on a colleagues Iphone and I must admit I was impressed and very surprised, I had always discounted the Iphone as an option for me due to the many (well documented) short commings for power users. However after seeing such applications as the Tioti TV+ which is so quick and smooth and lets you send remote record requests to a Sky+ box - somehting I have been desperate for. Along with great film and cinema applications and many other very neat applications which aren't available on Windows Mobile, I am begining to wonder if I made the wrong decision in purchassing my touch HD??!
Just thought I would share my thoughts with you all....I am sure I will get a barrage of abuse for this post, but would love to know if we think the future of windows mobile may include some more intuitive and consistently looking applications.
P.S. If anyone knows of a SKY+ remote record app which is designed for Windows Mobile I would love to know!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use Sky+ and have no idea on apps for this - but, I understood it is possible to control the Sky+ box remotely just via an SMS ?
Another possible option is a Slingbox ?
Try also pocketgear.com for applications: http://www.pocketgear.com/en_US/html/index.jsp
and, Softpedia: http://handheld.softpedia.com/#categories-soft
A five second search on google / sky produced this:
http://anytime.sky.com/mobile.aspx
And clicking through to the supported handsets only lists a few manufacturers and I don't think there are any WM devices.
I think it's a Java app? It might work (I don't have Sky, so can't test!).
Cheesy Dave said:
A five second search on google / sky produced this:
http://anytime.sky.com/mobile.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps you should read on as there is no compatible version for Windows Mobile 6.1 (HTC Touch HD)!
Hawk
You need to analyse your own requirements before deciding if iphone or HD is right for you.
For me, the lack of GPS software (google map doesnt qualify), office applications, user swappable spare battery, inability to support stylus, and lack of choices in software keyboard in iphone make it an unacceptable choice.
Another person's need might be different.
jrshodges said:
Get applications like you can get for the iPhone?
I have just had a 'demo' of a load of free apps for the Iphone on a colleagues Iphone and I must admit I was impressed and very surprised, I had always discounted the Iphone as an option for me due to the many (well documented) short commings for power users. However after seeing such applications as the Tioti TV+ which is so quick and smooth and lets you send remote record requests to a Sky+ box - somehting I have been desperate for. Along with great film and cinema applications and many other very neat applications which aren't available on Windows Mobile, I am begining to wonder if I made the wrong decision in purchassing my touch HD??!
Just thought I would share my thoughts with you all....I am sure I will get a barrage of abuse for this post, but would love to know if we think the future of windows mobile may include some more intuitive and consistently looking applications.
P.S. If anyone knows of a SKY+ remote record app which is designed for Windows Mobile I would love to know!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nighthawk2050 said:
Perhaps you should read on as there is no compatible version for Windows Mobile 6.1 (HTC Touch HD)!
Hawk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've installed the JAVA components and they work on Windows Mobile 6.1 - the issue is that the software expects you to have a keyboard (or a keypad) attached to input various details .... so you can't use it on a Touch HD !
Thank you for all your comments and suggestions, however I don't beleive sites like handandgo etc are anything like the Iphone Appstore, the apps cost a lot more and you have no idea of compatability. I don't beleive you can easily browse for apps on your handset, like you can with for example the Iphone.
I am not saying I think the Iphone is the best choice of phone, but they certainly got somehting right with the app store and wondered if Microsoft will listen up and provide developers an easy route to dev similar apps for windows mobile?!
I Have tried all the Java Sky remote apps before and as you have spotted they do not work with a touch screen device if it doesn't have hardware buttons too. Also even if it did work it is not very user freindly - I was using this as a example of a really usefull app, which I am amazed has not been built for Windows Mobile touch devices too....it just seems weird why there are so many great little apps for the Iphone, which are so easy to download and browse though, yet it has only been about a relatively short time in comparison with Windows Mobile....I find this most annoying!
Anyway, thanks again for your input
jrshodges said:
Thank you for all your comments and suggestions, however I don't beleive sites like handandgo etc are anything like the Iphone Appstore, the apps cost a lot more and you have no idea of compatability. I don't beleive you can easily browse for apps on your handset, like you can with for example the Iphone.
I am not saying I think the Iphone is the best choice of phone, but they certainly got somehting right with the app store and wondered if Microsoft will listen up and provide developers an easy route to dev similar apps for windows mobile?!
I Have tried all the Java Sky remote apps before and as you have spotted they do not work with a touch screen device if it doesn't have hardware buttons too. Also even if it did work it is not very user freindly - I was using this as a example of a really usefull app, which I am amazed has not been built for Windows Mobile touch devices too....it just seems weird why there are so many great little apps for the Iphone, which are so easy to download and browse though, yet it has only been about a relatively short time in comparison with Windows Mobile....I find this most annoying!
Anyway, thanks again for your input
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome and good luck with your choice - still an Iphone ?
Yes, the apps in WM are expensive and there is no simple app store. Rumours are around that MS will fix this.
Having said that, the app developers for WM are doing some great work. I have loads of apps on my HD (see other forum posts I've made recently).
I would like a TV guide app that brings in channels from across Europe. That is, one that would allow me to select my favorite channels.
Sorry the Sky+ thing did not work, as I said, I don't have any experience with this. I'm surprised the keyboard SIP did not work when using the java app.
michi123 said:
www.handango.com for example....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you - will take a look around that and the others suggested by people. I suspect my response will be similar to jrshodges - not overly clear on compatibility and quite expensive. But I won't be pessimistic...
Thanks again.
Dave
Cheesy Dave said:
You're welcome and good luck with your choice - still an Iphone ?
Yes, the apps in WM are expensive and there is no simple app store. Rumours are around that MS will fix this.
Having said that, the app developers for WM are doing some great work. I have loads of apps on my HD (see other forum posts I've made recently).
I would like a TV guide app that brings in channels from across Europe. That is, one that would allow me to select my favorite channels.
Sorry the Sky+ thing did not work, as I said, I don't have any experience with this. I'm surprised the keyboard SIP did not work when using the java app.
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Cheers Dave, no - not an Iphone...yet...I am happy to persevere with my WinMo device for the forseeable as I do belive I would miss, like others Sat Nav (which by the way I use TomTom and it looks and works great) ease of Exchange sync etc etc.
I just wanted to rant for a bit about the lack of decent and easily accesable apps for WinMo....in the hopes someone would point me in the direction of a lovely MS App Store (wishful thinking!). I hope you are right and wee do see something from MS soon, although I guess they will wait and in include it in Windows Mobile 6.5 or 7 - although by the sounds of it that won't be anytime soon :-(
And if anyone does ever find a decent TV guide and Sky + App then please remember this thread and post it for us!
Its also worth mentioning that although there are a lot of iPhone apps, and yes they are cheap, most are useless eye candy that have about 2 minutes worth of value in them.
Check out my list of apps here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3116988#post3116988
Also, of course, the wiki page:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Software
I don't know much about the Apple apps. But, I can say that some of these WM apps are really serious work and clearly have had lots of effort and thought applied to them.
My latest addition is Pocket Stars - a bit of astronomy fun for me, but a serious app for enthusiasts.
The iphone is for simple folk. The app store is for simple folk. IE it works.
WM is bit more complicated but gives those of you willing to use it a lot more freedom.
I do wish there were more apps and games for the HD.
I have both the Iphone and HD at home (well the Mrs has the iphone) once jailbroken the iphone is truly amazing and I almost wish i had one instead, but them my mrs reminds me why i dont have one, I would get board in no time. I played with hers (iphone that is) for a couple of days over the xmas break then went back to playing around on my HD.
Its still early days for the HD and remember the IPHONE has been around for quite some time now.
Give it a little time and the HD will be up there with the iphone, you already starting to see some really nice app/games coming out.
My only other wish would be some way to get multi-touch to work on HD as it makes games very playable on iphone.
The problem with Microsoft trying to replicate the iPhone App Store is that Apple have 2 different handsets to maintain, which are practically identical except for the GPS/3G.
There are many different versions of WM in use, with many software customisations by handset manufacturers and operators and varying hardware abilities.
I'm not sure how it would be possible to test the full range of devices that a particular application may work with. On top of that, people may or may not have updated the firmware for their device, which can break (or fix) applications.
I'd love to see it, but it's certainly more difficult supporting hundreds of different handsets customised by many operators rather than 1 and a bit
I saw on here that someone is working very hard to make a form of "app store" that will work on phones (credit to them for the effort) its called Gecko...i found the link on the forum. Give it time, I think it will come...
Ok, folks. Having read through this thread (clicky) and others, having learned about the variety of GPS solutions for navigation, I'm still trying to decide on which one is the right for me.
I've been using TomTom since my HX4700 days, migrated to TomTom on my Kaiser and now have been using it on my HD2 with with the 9192_V_Black_noBT cab which works great. The reason I'm asking the question and posting the poll here is that now TomTom has decided to abandon the WM platform, I'm seeking a solution that I can rely on going forward. It's been great, but it's time to move on.
Google maps is NOT an option because I travel in areas where data (and even cell signals in general) are unreliable due to topography. Whatever I choose must be a standalone product that uses the internal GPS hardware, though I completely understand that enhanced features like traffic and weather are data-dependent. The system will be used primarily in the Continental US. No plans to travel overseas, but I can't rule it out, either.
So I'm curious to know what you guys have decided on over time, and why.
If you vote(d) for TomTom, please indicate what your plans are for the future as the company has abandoned the WM platform and the probability of new features and continued usability on our devices becomes less likely due to the unavailability of 3rd party CABs for the system.
Looking forward to seeing your votes and reading your feedback.
I'm currently using Waze. It's free and it works. I'm sure some of the paid programs are better, but if you are looking for a free solution, check out Waze.
BillTheCat said:
The reason I'm asking the question and posting the poll here is that now TomTom has decided to abandon the WM platform, I'm seeking a solution that I can rely on going forward.
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Click to collapse
Tomtom is abandoning the WM platform for one good reason - the WM platform itself is being abandoned. So your question doesn't make much sense as we can't talk about durability anyway. So for now continue using the Tomtom you're using now on your HD2. Then, as your next phone most likely won't be a WM6.5 phone anymore, you'll have to make that decision at that point for the new platform you'll choose anyway.
Who said Tomtom have abandoned Windows Mobile?
I Googled it but the only thing I managed to find was another xda thread where someone said : "TOMTOM has officially abandoned the US market for TOMTOM Navigator 7 and above, "Due to difficulties with US Cell Service providers""...
kilrah said:
Tomtom is abandoning the WM platform for one good reason - the WM platform itself is being abandoned.
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First I'm hearing about this. Links and references please? In the meantime, one other way to look at it is to pick a solution from the above based on what other OS platforms they support.
I haven't heard any confirmation of WM being abandoned, but it makes perfect sense, the platform is dying. Developers don't want to develop for a platform which, come the end of the year, will no longer be put on any devices. There is no decent centralised source of apps (marketplace hasn't changed what it offers in the 5 months I've had a HD2) which causes developers concern about who will ever find their app to buy in the first place. Add that to the growing number of consumers ditching WM for iOS4, Android 2.2 and yes eventually WMP7, and you've got yourself a corpse of an operating system on your hands. Now tell me why would you spend time and money developing software for an OS whose market share is dramatically shrinking and in no way guarantees you profit return?
laserviking said:
I haven't heard any confirmation of WM being abandoned, but it makes perfect sense, the platform is dying.
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I've been hearing this sort of 'rumor' about this platform since the days when it was called Windows CE while other OS's and platforms like EPOC for Psion others have fallen by the wayside. Yet here we are, almost two decades later, and there are ample apps on other sites than the Marketplace. So I'll ask everyone to please confine the discussion to the question asked, assume that Windows Mobile will still be around, and respond accordingly not on what might be, but what is for right now.
What are you using the GPS for? cant help you with street navigation but for hiking or 4wding i use Oziexplorer, I too once had a HX4700 for a few years and have been using Oziexplorer. You have to get your own maps and its not a street navigation type software. There are programs available to "rip" google maps and convert to maps usable by Ozi which works great!
BillTheCat rocks, lol!
BillTheCat said:
Ok, folks. Having read through this thread (clicky) and others, having learned about the variety of GPS solutions for navigation, I'm still trying to decide on which one is the right for me.
I've been using TomTom since my HX4700 days, migrated to TomTom on my Kaiser and now have been using it on my HD2 with with the 9192_V_Black_noBT cab which works great. The reason I'm asking the question and posting the poll here is that now TomTom has decided to abandon the WM platform, I'm seeking a solution that I can rely on going forward. It's been great, but it's time to move on.
Google maps is NOT an option because I travel in areas where data (and even cell signals in general) are unreliable due to topography. Whatever I choose must be a standalone product that uses the internal GPS hardware, though I completely understand that enhanced features like traffic and weather are data-dependent. The system will be used primarily in the Continental US. No plans to travel overseas, but I can't rule it out, either.
So I'm curious to know what you guys have decided on over time, and why.
If you vote(d) for TomTom, please indicate what your plans are for the future as the company has abandoned the WM platform and the probability of new features and continued usability on our devices becomes less likely due to the unavailability of 3rd party CABs for the system.
Looking forward to seeing your votes and reading your feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that the Bing mobile app does have free turn by turn navigation with voice prompts, right?
richo, given the programs in the poll, it's for mobile navigation.
dipalonv, per my original post, it needs to be a standalone solution.
BillTheCat said:
richo, given the programs in the poll, it's for mobile navigation.
dipalonv, per my original post, it needs to be a standalone solution.
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Click to collapse
My bad! You may want to look into CoPilot Live 8. I believe it's only $29.99 so not too bad price wise.
BillTheCat said:
I've been hearing this sort of 'rumor' about this platform since the days when it was called Windows CE while other OS's and platforms like EPOC for Psion others have fallen by the wayside. Yet here we are, almost two decades later, and there are ample apps on other sites than the Marketplace. So I'll ask everyone to please confine the discussion to the question asked, assume that Windows Mobile will still be around, and respond accordingly not on what might be, but what is for right now.
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Click to collapse
Haven't you followed the WP7 discussions a couple of months ago?
Windows phone 7 series that is due to be out at the end of the year has been announced by Microsoft as being based on a new concept, that makes all existing WM applications incompatible, unlike with all the previous WM revisions you mention where applications were reuseable. So, everything will have to be reprogrammed for the new platform. So not only will you have to wait for it to be out to buy a compatible program, but also no provider of navigation software has so far announced they would make something for it AFAIK. So for that kind of software just like all others, there will most likely be no offering until the platform proves to be profitable and developers have the time to reprogram everything for the new it, just like iPhone users had to wait for more than 2 years before a standalone GPS solution was available.
WM6.5 will be kept in parallel, "for low-end devices". As you have an HD2, I doubt you'll go for a "low-end device" in the future. And developers are abandoning it simply because it won't be the little remaining WM6.5 bit that will earn them money, it's the new WP7S where "all the hype" is. It's the incompatibility that will bury WM6.5, developers won't lose their time writing a second separate app for the old WM6.5.
Sooo... don't count on long-term useability. What you get today will only last you until you change phone, unless you stick to the "lower-end" future phones to stay on WM6.5.
I've just come back from a road trip in the States, i drove 2500 miles, using Co Pilot Live 8, and it worked a treat, no problems at all, and for the price it's a good deal
Hi, tried to use Copilot, paid the license
results: hd2 jammed,sd card (32gb) unreadable, lost of photos and videos, softs no more working, and of course copilot. Each start of the prog brings new damages.
see no one having that....
don't find a solution outside of replacing with my original sd card
greetings
croquemor
kilrah said:
Haven't you followed the WP7 discussions a couple of months ago?
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Click to collapse
No, I haven't followed that. Can we all please focus on the question that was asked instead of going off on tangents?
Hi all,
What follows could be considered to be the ramblings of a lunatic however it is intended to provoke discussion and maybe some thought about where we (Sense users/fans) go from here. Personally I know I don't want to see Sense die off (I'm not planning on moving to Android or WinPho 7 any time soon, as you'll read) and my phone (HD2) is only a YEAR old!
The Future of Sense?
Many of us bought our HTC WinMo phones on the strength of Sense (henceforth referred to as Manila to differentiate it from its Android, and Windows Phone 7 "Hub", incarnations), which brought a compelling and attractive interface to ugly old WinMo. Judging by the amount of devices Manila has been (or has been requested to be) ported to it is still a compelling and attractive interface. However users and fans of Manila are now facing a dilemma; Manila is, in all probability reaching, if it hasn't already, the end of its (officially) developed life. Short of any previously unknown major bugs surfacing its not hard to imagine HTC now focusing all their efforts on Android and Windows Phone 7.
So where does this leave us, many of us who still have perfectly functioning phones, which often still have up-to-date hardware? We could, thanks to the guys (with very large brains) here on XDA developers, choose between Windows Phone 7 or Android to give our phones a new lease of life. However, personally (and I know I'm not the only one) I don't want to. Windows phone 7 doesn't appeal because of its lack of customisation (and copying of iOS on so many levels), and Android because of, well, Google! WinMo gives us the freedom to tinker, without the need of "jail breaking", which many of us love WinMo for. Manila is the icing on the cake... and everyone knows the icing is the best bit of the cake!
So where do we go from here?
Organise. Mobilise.
First off I don't want to take anything away from the (quite brilliant) people here on XDA Developers that have already managed (or facilitated others) to do some pretty amazing things with Manila, having extended it far beyond HTCs original scope. However despite all the hard work and effort that has gone into reverse engineering Manila there is still much that is unknown about it and parts we cannot change. If we wish to see Manila grow and develop (further than we already have), to keep our phones current, we need HTCs co-operation, we need the actual Manila source.
But why should HTC help us when they would probably rather us buy new phones? Well, HTC is a business and all good business' like a good deal. So, they've got something we want but what do we have to offer them in return? I believe that Manila has applications outside of Android and Windows Phone 7 (which HTC already have covered, so we can forget about them) so there is still one avenue left to us that we could attempt to try and tempt HTC with...
Swallow the Tablet!
At the moment the tablet market is dominated by iOS and Android but inevitably Microsoft will manage to muscle Windows into the tablet market. It managed it with phones (then, as we all know, lost its way) and more recently it managed to (almost completely) squeeze Linux out of the netbook market. At CES 2011 scores of Windows based tablets were unveiled from manufacturers such as Asus, Lenovo, Viliv and even Samsung! Microsofts desire to muscle its way into yet another market (tablets) with a full fat version of Windows is compounded by the fact that the next version of Windows (8) will support SoC architectures from Intel and ARM. Make no mistake; Whatever your views on the suitability of Windows for tablets, Windows tablets are coming and they will sell. However, lets not get too hung up on tablets, there are still millions upon millions (upon millions!) of PCs out there and sales of PCs are still strong.
But what does this have to do with Manila? Well, I believe Manila would make the perfect lightweight 3D widget engine for Windows and this is where our opportunity lies. HTC currently has a massive presence in smartphones and are now entering the tablet market (currently Android to begin with, but given their ties with Microsoft, in the past with Windows Mobile and now Windows Phone 7, it won't be long before they produce a full fat Windows tablet). However they do not (yet) have a presence, of any kind, on desktops and it is with this that we could tempt them. So, HTC get the opportunity to have a presence PC desktops worldwide and we get to extend the life of our phones that utilise Manila!
Don't forget the presence of "Sense" on the desktop would be a great marketing tool... people see the advertisements for Sense on the TV (as HTC are currently doing in the UK), they give it a try on their computer, like it, and may be inclined to buy a phone with Sense in the future. There are also the opportunities that "Sense" (Manila) on the desktop could tie in with Sense on phones.
To be continued...
Reserved for extra details
I would like to see HTC releasing a new Sense for Windows Mobile, just for the ROM cookers
That would be a nice look - Sense on my desktop as well as my phone - and CHT as well?? Perhaps synchronised so that changing the look of one chnges the other - interesting possibilities
nathanpc said:
I would like to see HTC releasing a new Sense for Windows Mobile, just for the ROM cookers
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Click to collapse
Hi Nathan, thanks for your reply.
However I feel you are missing the point somewhat. HTC wouldn't need to release a new version of Sense, in return for the community driven development of a desktop version of Sense, the continued development of Sense, for Windows Mobile, would also be in our hands.
Ross202 said:
That would be a nice look - Sense on my desktop as well as my phone - and CHT as well?? Perhaps synchronised so that changing the look of one chnges the other - interesting possibilities
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Click to collapse
Hi Ross, thanks for your reply.
That there is a very interesting idea and exactly why I started this thread.
Strictly speaking, with the development of Manila in our hands, we wouldn't need something like CHT because many of the ideas behind CHT would be a part of Manila as standard.
I'm also going to propose a working group (the details of which will appear above shortly) - The Manila Community Working Group - which, I hope, will be made up of some of XDA's greatest independent Sense "developers" (and maybe even HTC? ) so we can thrash out what we would like to see in Sense, how it would work, and how we could achieve many of the feature requests (like your own) that we are going to receive. While the Working Group would be closed a thread would be naturally started to keep everyone abreast of where we currently are.
The more organised we appear the greater the chance of HTC taking us seriously and considering our proposals (and the greater the chance we have of also ensuring the continued development of Manila for our phones).
Could you put out a poll to determine the response. I am into this development, though I am not a developer myself. I've been through many different types of smart and not so smart phones. Manila/Sense is the way to go. In fact in my ROM cooking, any app/settings that could be access through Sense is remove from the Start Menu.
Let's get going
illi said:
Could you put out a poll to determine the response. I am into this development, though I am not a developer myself. I've been through many different types of smart and not so smart phones. Manila/Sense is the way to go. In fact in my ROM cooking, any app/settings that could be access through Sense is remove from the Start Menu.
Let's get going
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi illi, thanks for your reply.
Now thats the kind of enthusiasm I was hoping to see! I think Manila is the perfect way of hiding Windows (on a tablet, or PC) in the same way it does with Windows Mobile on phones.
I imagine a PC based Manila to have three modes of operation:
Widget Mode - Individual widgets can be placed on the desktop
Full Screen - Similar to how Manila works on our phones now with lots of added bells and whistles
Window Mode - Similar to the fullscreen version but in a more compact (borderless) window placeable anywhere on the desktop
In fullscreen or window mode widgets would be placeable on the "Home" tab and/or have their very own tab. The layouts/graphics required for each mode would be described in a single mode9 file.
Well, thats my thoughts, but I encourage anyone with any ideas to share!
*cough* bump *cough*
C'mon guys (and girls?), there must be more than 3 people who'd like to see Manila move beyond their phones and extend the functionality of their (WinMo) phones too?? Only if we can prove to HTC that there is a desire for this that we can consider approaching HTC and be taken seriously. Support for WinMo devices, as we know them, will gradually ebb away and its up to us to unite and take control of our devices? Do you really want your phones to be left behind?
Like I said, I don't want to take anything away from the (very clever) people on here who have already done so much to advance Manila, but its time to pool our resources and work towards the same goal... together.
Now is the time to stand and be counted!
thank you buddy, nice work
DJShadesUK said:
*cough* bump *cough*
C'mon guys (and girls?), there must be more than 3 people who'd like to see Manila move beyond their phones and extend the functionality of their (WinMo) phones too?? Only if we can prove to HTC that there is a desire for this that we can consider approaching HTC and be taken seriously. Support for WinMo devices, as we know them, will gradually ebb away and its up to us to unite and take control of our devices? Do you really want your phones to be left behind?
Like I said, I don't want to take anything away from the (very clever) people on here who have already done so much to advance Manila, but its time to pool our resources and work towards the same goal... together.
Now is the time to stand and be counted!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice thread. I really think HTC made a revolution with Sense. I bet if microsoft cintinued WM7, HTC would have no doubt released Sense 3.0. It would be brialliant iff we could get a update. Yes i understand your point of getting yhese manilla source files, but what goood will it be? I don't see many developers for WM nowadays on XDA. Most of them have moved on to android, ios, wp7. i think if htc were going to update semse, the first thing they shoul improve is the effiency and usage. Because atm it uses far to many resources.
Nice thread, Look forward to the update
olyloh6696 said:
Nice thread. I really think HTC made a revolution with Sense. I bet if microsoft cintinued WM7, HTC would have no doubt released Sense 3.0. It would be brialliant iff we could get a update. Yes i understand your point of getting yhese manilla source files, but what goood will it be? I don't see many developers for WM nowadays on XDA. Most of them have moved on to android, ios, wp7. i think if htc were going to update semse, the first thing they shoul improve is the effiency and usage. Because atm it uses far to many resources.
Nice thread, Look forward to the update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input.
Yes, it would be nice if we were to get an official update but the chances of that happening don't look good, thats why we need to try and take matters into our own hands. You are completely right about developers leaving WM for other platforms but that is why we need to organise ourselves and present a case to HTC for the independent development of Manila for the Windows and Windows Mobile. The point is if we can get our hand on the Manila source then we can make the Windows Mobile version compatible* with the desktop version then any developments for the desktop version will automatically be available to those of us with Windows Mobile devices. This way we can leverage desktop developers to extend the life of our WM phones for us, developers leaving WM would be so much of an issue.
*Thanks to the similarities between full fat Windows and Windows Mobile its possible to make any supporting (helper) .dll's required by widgets/tabs for the desktop version of Manila compatible with the mobile version.
There must be more people who would like to have their say about this, before this section of XDA becomes a virtual ghost town?
Oops, double post!
Hi DJShadesUK,
Excellent start to a thread, some excellent ideas and thoughts.
I thought I'd keep the discussion on here for now, as it's more likely (hopefully) to continue.
These are just general thoughts, I hope will form into a balanced response by the time I've finished..
1st off, has HTC ever open-sourced anything before?
My impression of the mobile phone industry is that things are closed down due its competitiveness. The exception here of course is Google...but that is because their business model in this industry is totally different.
My thought is although the Sense legacy appears to be closing to an end from HTCs point of view, chances are they won't want to part with it, just in case.
What is in it for them?
As much as I would love to get my hands on the HTC tools used to create and modify things like the mode9 files, it all represents an investment made by HTC which however unlikely could be used by them in the future.
I've been impressed with HTCs handling of Sense being modded though, they could have stirred up a whole heap of trouble for people and locked things down, (I've even heard that a youtube video of CHT on an Energy ROM was going around HTC). Needless to say, they have supported us by not shutting it down and I hope they have gained in return from observing what we do.
There is a whole rats-nest of issues if HTC did decide, ok lets give them out tools and see what happens. Clearly the HTC branding would gain tremendously, I can see Sense being put on TVs, Set Top Boxes and all sorts. It would also show that not only can HTC make brilliant hardware, but they can do the same with the software.
We can only guess what HTCs roadmap involves, but clearly tablets will be there somewhere. It wouldn't surprise me though if they try something which is entirely Sense based (sitting on a basic os), perhaps a media player or tv gadget. Whatever it is, they clearly pride themselves on coming up with clever ideas (if the adverts are to be believed) and that means they will be careful about sharing too much.
Obviously HTC already knew that Sense was not much use for the future (at least in its current form) or they would have completed the Facebook tab they started and they would have been the ones writing the RSS tab. I see that as the point when someone pulled the plug on pushing sense further and let it wind-down (I still feel sorry for the person who did all the facebook stuff - hopefully the tab makes up for it by not wasting their effort).
Why sense?
What is it about sense which makes us want to mod it? Is it just because it is there and it works as it should. Is it the design and concept of it, that makes it easy to use and we want to build more on to it? Is it because .net simply sucks at graphics (as well as other things...)?
Personally I find it a pig to work with, it probably isn't with the right tools though. Similar things are possible with other methods, so why not use them, the tabs which are already there can be replicated. Does the possibility of Silverlight on WM open up other options?
However, CHT shows perfectly why sense is worth using, but is that down to how sense works or just how Cookie designed CHT?
I'm interested to know peoples thoughts on this question, what is it about sense in particular that we want?
Windows based Sense...possible?
This is an interesting proposal...I can see this in one of two ways.
1. Native:
Attempt to use lua scripts and mode9 files as they are intended, compiled and in binary format. Obviously the smoothest and most efficient method. Lua is an open standard, so information is available on it's use and methods (although not sure about the compiled form). Mode9 files I guess can be used directly, but such things are beyond my knowledge. Clearly there are issues with tie in to the system (i.e. registry access, hardware etc will need to be different), but that could be compiled into the files.
2. Interpreted:
By leaving the lua scripts and mode9 files decompiled, the files can easily be parsed and interpreted by another program. This would also allow an abstraction layer to be added which interprets calls to the registry, hardware etc and makes the suitable calls. Ok, slower to do on the pc, but the CPU power should be able to manage with it.
The mode9 side probably won't be too bad, since it's format is quite basic and everything is static. Lua script interpreting will be much harder, but that could be something which can be developed over time (by supporting the basics at first and adding more over time). Tie into to dlls could pose the biggest problem, but they would never have worked on other environments anyway.
If we had some kind of interpreter this would also form the basis of a designer too, allowing easy design of components and pages [at first a display, then perhaps a way to edit directly].
Note: This concept is not new but has been discussed as part of the manila visual kitchen.
Both are huge jobs, but there is the skill and knowledge to do at least the 2nd right here on Xda.
What is the origins of the mode9 files, could there already be something which reads them?
Are there other groups which have gone further?
Other than Cookie, there are very few which have totally re-built things from scratch [I must add my apologies if I've missed something]. For example one is Moonar's GPS tab, which is from Russian site which appears to do sense stuff too.
Are they using the same tools as us, do they have better ones, can we work together to produce new ones? I've noticed that a lot of the sense stuff show up on Chinese sites too, are we missing things here too?
Also I must add, the CMD line kitchen is a piece of art, each component is excellent and huge thanks to the whole group for the work done on it!
Something else of note:
HTC Home for windows...
http://www.htchome.org/en/