Database Users

Marketplace???

Has anyone noticed how ridiculously expensive and overpriced applications are in the Windows Mobile Marketplace?
For one, their selection of applications are terrible. So far they're just a bunch of badly designed generic apps that don't feed any real purpose. The games are horrible too.
The only decent application I wanted to buy was Pac Man, but that's like £5 !!! for a measly game that probably only has 5 levels and I'm only going to play when I'm bored.
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
. A decent media player with visualisations and coverflow.
. A few nicely designed touchscreen games including ones like Tweeter that makes use of the G-sensor.
It makes no sense for Windows to release all these devices and advertise that WM is a social device when their marketplace is a bunch of bollocks.

ilabstudios said:
. I just want a decent Twitter application that has kinetic scrolling and doesn't show that horrid side-bar control.
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http://code.google.com/p/pocketwit/

I agree. I am very disapointed with the marketplace myself. I was expecting thousands of high quality cheap and free apps but that's not what we have yet. I am hoping that this is only due to the fact that it's been 10 days since its release and must be hard to get thousands of apps ready to go in the first few months. I am confident though that microsoft is ready to compete with android and iphone so must surely have something more in mind than they currently have.

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with Microsoft. The WinMo software companies haven't adjusted yet to that fact that there is a central place for the average user to hit and find their competition. Something like SPB could be as pricey as it wanted, because it could take the average user forever to find any quality alternatives. They have the advertising dollars, placement on carrier websites, etc. Now there's a spot for a smaller competitor to get the same exposure. But it'll take time for them to pop up.
$30 for any mobile app is retarded. I'm really disappointed that since release day, I'm only seeing 10 new apps in the store. Maybe the "what's new" button is broken, but there's a couple on the results page I installed day 1 of Marketplace being open

The lack of apps is probably not helped by the fact that, as I understand it, Microsoft charge an extra $10 or so for each country to list the app in (and require that the app be localized for that country) so I'd assume that a good chunk of people developing apps in the US aren't going to push their apps beyond the US (I'm no developer so haven't read the full pricing details but that's the gist of what I've seen in some MS developer forums with people questioning why their apps aren't available)
It'll especially be true for free or cheap apps - if you've made a free app, would you pay out to make it available to other countries?
The only reason I can see for restricting apps to a country is if they are purely regional - TV schedules for a particular country, or train schedules or something.
Steve.

Well, I'm in the US, so not really an issue. Trust me, not missing much if they are actually holding out on pushing to other countries.
I'd also guess the word is out to developers that Marketplace is a good spot for their software to turn freeware and end up on a torrent so perhaps they are holding off until Microsoft fixes the security.

Jesus shoe tapping finger clicking Christ, give it a chance its only just started. I have already seen a lot on there for free and under 70p... just wait and be a bit patient.

give it a chance its only just started
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I would if that were the case. Unfortunately, Marketplace has been exposed to developers months before it was officially released, which is why I am confused as to why there are so many cheap applications. I'm sure that there will be more applications coming soon, but I'm more concerned about the pricing and quality of applications. When I watched the first keynote last year on the coming of Marketplace I had higher hopes than his.
I realise that some iPhone developers have investment from other companies and some of them even have a development team working on the apps, but still.. look at the type of stuff Android have compared with Windows, it's ridiculous. It's as if no real developer wants to develop on the WM platform.
I feel that their advertising campaigns are misleading. They're trying to get across the fact that WM is now social and more application orientated when so far all I can find on the marketplace are overpriced applications that seem like it was developed for WM5.
Personally I don't think 6.5 is going to be a huge success, TechCrunch has already given it a bad review. WM7 better be different.
Btw. In the world of technology, there's no room for 'Oh give it a chance' type attitude. Technology companies usually have once chance of pulling something off. Hence the reason why companies like Google or Apple spend millions of dollars on market resource, trial testing and development research.

Marketplace? Pah!
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...

So far the only good to come out of the app store is Zenonia...badass rpg... 10 bucks though But well worth it in my opinion! If you like old school snes hack and slash rpg's, this game is for you. Full sound, decent story, just great overall. For me, there's point in playing my old favorite snes games on my phone because with sound, to me its pointless. and not using sound is the only way to get an snes emulator to run smooth; regardless of which one it is ( morphgear, smart-whatever its called, or pocketsnes

Paulplex said:
...
Great stuff - Microsoft saw what Apple were doing too late and have done too little me thinks to succeed.
I love my Windows Mobile phone; but Apple's iPhone taught Microsoft and other mobile developers how important eye candy in a phone OS was. Google's Android OS will be taking the lions share of future mobile phone sales and I see Android phones surpassing the iPhone.
Unless Microsoft do something right, not many peeps will want a Windows Mobile device in a few years time...
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I see plenty of commercials for iPhones and Google phones on TV but absolutely none for WinMo phones. MS really needs to start promoting itself in this market.
S

How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!

Paulplex said:
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/
I've been relying on the RSS feed from this fine site for the past couple of years or so, since my original TyTN, TyTN II and now my Touch Pro 2. It's a great site, has introduced me to great programs like NoniGPSPlot, has new applications all the time and finally - it's all free (and not warez free, but genuine software).
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nice one !

Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
moSess said:
How about the annoying fact that I don't get a chance to choose where to intstall the app. They all go directly to device memory. That sucks balls!
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Click to collapse

mpicart said:
Theres a cab floating around here to fix that...
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Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568806

@Paulplex - Thanks for the link. I know I can get free applications quite easily, that's what I've done so far. However most of them aren't to 6.5 standards, the majority of them are still coded for use on old WM5 phones.
When you spend hundreds on a phone you expect to install applications on it that are intended for such a high-end device. The only application which is worth installing is the Myspace and Facebook app, and even those aren't great.
I regard my phone as my house in a way. When we buy a house, we intend to fill it up with furniture, usually the more expensive the house, the higher quality the furniture. The same should apply to phones, in that instead of furniture we require high quality applications. But where are they? SPB is the only one I can think of.

do you people think that bill gates and the people at microsoft are just gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app frenzy in the market for pdas and devices? dont u think that most people at microsoft all have winmo devices? do u really think any employee would have an apple iphone?...so of coursse thousands of new gsensor apps are on their way of being placed on the marketplace or in development...obvious with android showing that they have developers also who are pumpin out apps for them..microsoft is doin the same thing..give them time the winmo app store just came out..and a gsensor phone for a winmo device first showed up only a yr ago..so they have a bit of software catching up to do with these new devices. HTC thank god...droped 6 new phones for the north american market just this month alone..with the tp2 being the first in september..(htc pure,htc hero,htc tilt 2,htc imagio,htc mytouch) so basically with 6.5 also droped...htc has done their part by stacking microsoft with a heavy set and multy array of phones to crush the competition i.e iphone 3gs or whatever version its at now. microsoft is not gonna sit around and allow apple to dominate the app market..and they sure as hell arent gonna let android..a new OS that has no business gettin their OS on htc devices, surpass them either...remembr bill tried to buy out google but they rejected a couple yrs ago. And u all know bill gates has a winmo devices,prolly a htc touch hd or the new imagio...dont u think he wants a huge selection of apps himselve? trust..were not the only ones on the heals of microsoft to get these developers in line..and get these apps rolled out...plus half the apps apple has for the iphone are useless and they are just puttin them in commercials to show that they have a **** load of apps...half the apps they have could be bunddled up with other apps like how a spb traveler or mobile shell app is but they are just tryin to show off how many apps they have..plus most of all the developers for apple just have the change a couple scripts around in their apps and all the same apple apps could be made into cabs and become winmo apps...so the **** isnt hard..the microsoft winmo team execut8ves or w/e u wanna call them need to get their marketing department working full throttle and start shipping new apps with these new phones...i repeat HTC has done their part..now its time for the software to catch up...

"Windows" isn't a device, "Windows" doesn't release devices, and "Windows" doesn't sell devices. "Microsoft" isn't any of those things, either. Microsoft is a company that produces an OS that runs on LOTS of devices (some phones, some PDAs, and a whole lot of things that are neither).

Plenty of time for this thing to get up to snuff.
But that said, the real problem is that while there aren't that many WM OS out there, (5, 6, 6.1, 6.5) and most apps will pretty much install in either, the different hardware config makes it a different ballgame, especially with games, no pun intended. Some phones have buttons, some don't. Some games will work only in landscape, some will not, some will work on both. And not all phones are exactly finger friendly. They're meant to be used with a stylus for the most part, the finger's a secondary thing.
So yea, these developers will have their hands full, unless of course they want to limit their market to particular devices only.
So that being said, my gripe is that none of these apps are telling me they're to be used in a particular hardware platform.

@moegdaog, I'm a developer myself, so I realise the number of new applications that will come soon, however that's not what I was specifically talking about.
I'm more concerned about the level of development on applications and games. Why so many developers opt to develop for iPhone isn't because of a bias view-point, it's because the tools they provide mean that they can develop a high-end application and start earning money as soon as it's in the marketplace.
However the type of developers are not the same. iPhone developers are usually younger, multimedia orientated so they probably have skills in web, graphics and illustration, where as Microsoft developers are usually a lot older and more prone to developing utility (function) based apps and have very limited skills in anything else. Most developers aren't able to outsource and so they are left with a rubbish application.
My worry is that yes there will be many applications within marketplace but will they actually be worth all that money and will any investors support the development of these apps. Also how will these applications differ from what we have seen on Android and iPhone.

So long Leo

If you are the kind of person who gets emotionally attached to the gadgets you buy, please stop reading this post.
I'm not trying to start an inflamed discussion about which is the best device or manufacturer.
I’m not an Apple fan, in fact, I hate being “Apple locked” and that’s one of the main reasons I’ve bought the Leo after owning an Eten x500, a Kaiser, a Blackstone and finally, an iPhone 3GS.
I could go over and over describing the differences and the pros and cons of each device but I won’t. I’ll just try to tell you guys a few things we don’t have to accept.
We don’t have to accept …
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
a Gigahert processor which can’t smoothly scroll a web page. I know it’s probably due to bad Opera coding but… have you ever scrolled an iPhone Safari?
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
I could go on but there is something I realized that made me feel really hopeless (yes, I would really like to like a Windows phone). While HTC (and other manufacturers) keeps on launching device after device in a short time frame and thus creating new bugs and issues to deal with, Apple keeps on improving its one and only iPhone OS, for its one iPhone device (ok, different versions but very similar) which keeps getting better and better.
While iPhone developers have to deal with interface and compatibility issues for 3 very similar devices, a Windows Mobile developer has to deal with hundreds of them, some very poorly designed and a few very good (like Leo) but in the end, there is no way to develop a very good app for so many devices without a huge effort (and cost). Also, developing an App exclusively for one Windows phone wouldn’t be cost effective as a single model doesn’t represent a large enough consumer market.
Apple, with the iPhone, didn’t create a device as we are used to. Instead, they created a product with a long roadmap, mature SDK, sufficient market share, providing the necessary ecosystem for developers all around the world to make it even better.
It won’t be possible for any manufacturer, using any OS, to compete with such a mature product if they don’t realize it’s not a device we need. It’s a product.
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)

fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
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Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.

Xeon said:
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
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Click to collapse
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...

fmcastro said:
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
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Some bugs are bearable.. I had too many with all my previous XDA/HTC phones. But for such basic bugs to be found, the device primary tasks ( phone calls / SMS ) should never be affected because it makes the device useless...

fmcastro said:
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
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Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
fmcastro said:
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
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That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
fmcastro said:
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
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And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
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Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?

aussiebum said:
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
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Humm... not exactly. Most people here at XDA were trying to switch from an oficial ROM to another. That said, we're talking about official languages. I was trying to flash a WWE ROM on a french device for example. The HTC excuse for this terrible language mess is, of course, microsoft: "Unfortunately, due to licensing restrictions put in place by Microsoft, it is not legally possible for us the change the language of a device once it has been loaded" - Quoted from an HTC support email I received.
aussiebum said:
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
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Do you realise it shouldn't matter whose fault it is? It's a faulty device sold by HTC, period. I don't feel any better knowing it's an OS fault.
aussiebum said:
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
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I know but I think it's a bit more complicated as I said on the original post. Besides the laziness, WM developers face a too heterogeneous ecossystem that makes things really harder. "Ok, I've finished my app, now I just have to port it to 640x480, 480x640, 480x800, 800x480, 320x200, and who knows what else, despite the fact that standard WM UIs are really crap so every developer has to start from scratch if they want to make something look good. In short, only a few very brave souls will be capable of that.
aussiebum said:
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
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Because Android is not that good also. It seems like a better OS than WM but when it comes to user experience and, most important, a consistent user experience across all apps, it fails for the same reason WM fails. Lack of a product design and roadmap. It's just trying desperately to be installed on as most devices as it can.
Regards

And yet, the reasons people still use Winmo/Android is because the Iphone OS has serious deficiencies in some areas.
There is no perfect phone....all we can do is make the best of each OS.

Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.

Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.

I owned iphone 3gs...
I read all you've been writing and i, as former iphone 3gs user, must say that everything you say is corect but... why don't you say to all of us why you gave up your iphone... or why you really hating go back to itunes... and of course why in the close future you'll give up again, and sell the iphone???
The answer, real answer is that with iPhone you have everything right in place as you say but there is no fun... no joy... like trying to have the best sex but not in the mood... if know what i mean...
I had moments when i pulled out my iphone, from my pocket, and i wanted to play arround with it and...come on, really boring!!!
Iphone is the best in terms of everyday use, but if wm 7 will get better in terms of use it's going to be a strong iphone killer!!!
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
By the way...
No OS can have better handle of e-mail attachments than wm... for sure!!!
I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR SELLING IPHONE OVER HTC HD2!!!
Cheers!

jimbo29 said:
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
Click to expand...
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Thanks for perfectly expressing my thoughts

Toss3 said:
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say i have had an iphone 3g and i'm more happy with my HTC HD2. One of the reasons is because i simply think you pay way to much for the piece of hardware itself still no 5mpx camera while 8 is almost normal and 12 is high end. The new gs is worth more the money tough but the camera keeps me off and i kept hearing a annoying resonance while calling and the software isn't perfect as well and not that stable after a few days plus the battery life of the HTC HD2 is better as my iphone 3g and way better as the 3gs.
I like the default windows mobile software HTC Sense is annoying, camera flip, weather animations can't be turned off. Emails why show the email in the way it is shown now? i just rather had opened the whole email app so i can view the emails like your supposed to and not like a letter.
While calling you have to slide to get the extra options, why? there is a hang up button on screen wich you can press so why not the other buttons?
HTC tried to make a nice looking skin but not a functional one.
I use the default titanium skin with some modifications like a task manager added to the options and msn and the camera. But the apps for calling and the communications manager work great.
About windows mobile 7:
Windows mobile can be great. But i still have the idea they haven't learned from their mistakes. Look at the buttons a phone is supposed to have according to microsoft for windows mobile 7. a Pickup, a home, a start, a back and a hang up button. Why so many? Home and start could be one, 1 press to go home another to go to start and press again to go home again, simple and effective. Why a back button? when would you use that? Press the home button and your back in the home screen and applications usually have their own back button when needed. So pick-up home and hang-up would have been enough. Since Microsoft asks for these buttons they still think to complicated and i bet windows 7 will to complicated as well all though it will be more complete compared to 6.x.
But i love how i can change things to the user interface and multitasking is great, the iphone can't do that by default and that really sucks. And backgrounder that does make it possible, makes the phone more unstable as a windows mobile one. It is stupid windows mobile doesn't use it's greatest advantage for marketing and battling the iphone with it, this is where windows mobile could stand out with.
I'm writing this from my macbook on os x snow leopard and even i still prefer my windows mobile HTC HD2.

Windows Mobile 7 will simply use CE7 Kernel, compiled for new ARM CPUs and will use the new ARM instructions.
Now we're running Windows Mobile 6.5 that runs on CE5.2 kernel.
It's like running Windows98 on a Phenom X4 quadcore CPU
Even on other MSM chipsets that has got an ARM11 CPU, that potential isn't seen because of that.
When WM7 will be released, we'll see our device performance unleashed

I've had my HD2 for a week now and I must say I'm more than pleased with it. I did consider the iPhone as an option, but as I want to connect my phone to my Exchange Server then it was a no brainer to opt for a Windows Phone and the hardware specs of the HD2 are way above the iPhone. A big thing that put me off the iPhone was it's reliance upon iTunes to synchronise my calendar & contacts - it's dreadfully buggy toy software and I don't want a music application on my work PC.
If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as "the users' fault".
The emergence of open source Android phones whill hopefully spur the mainstream smartphone OS writers to concentrate their efforts on developing their own platforms. It's true to say that Microsoft haven't trerated their Windows OS as a mainstream product and there's still too much legacy code in 6.5, but it's still a decent OS for its intended purpose Hopefully that will be addressed in Version 7 which looks likely to be available to HD2 users as an (free?) upgrade. There's masses of quality third-party apps avaiable to maximise its smartphone potential for just about all users,.
There isn't a perfect smartphone out there and as we demand ever more features of them I doubt if there is likely to be in the forseable future, but the nice thing about the Windows Phone OS is that it is eminently hackable.

HD2 Simply Put...
Depth & Customization!

iphone got it right???
I remember hearing complaints about iphone for at least the first year, and as omneity says:
"If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as 'the users' fault' ".
fmcastro said:
We don’t have to accept …
5. a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
p.s. I am a former Apple user. Iphone is more of Jobs' controlled user experience.
I couldn't stand it.
I find it ironic that Apple started out supporting open source while Gates worked hard at controlling users choice.
Now it is the reverse.

New things r always trapped in some trouble, and that's why i have paid close attention to leo, but i didn't buy it! im just waiting for a staid one.

To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.

Teneka_Khan said:
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I FULLY agree with you ; I also have a iphone 3G 16 GB but is now in the drawer collecting dust. As saying goes, One man's meat is another man poison . No point debating about how good/bad the HD2 and iPhone and any other PDA. It will never end
As far as I am concerned , the HD2 is my choice now vs iPhone

gavinfabl said:
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I totally agree...and that's just what i've now done

Why is the Windows marketplace so poor?

Hi,
Just been looking through the marketplace and have to say it's rather poor, hardly any apps, and a lot of those that are there are very expensive. Whilst a lot of apps on the iphone are very gimicky, there are apps for just about everything, and there are thousands of free apps. As Microsoft are always competing with Apple on just about every front how come they've let apple get so far ahead in this area? I couldn't even find a basic solitaire came, all I found was freecell, which you have to pay for :-/ Will the marketplace always be poor or is it set to explode?
Cheers

snerkler said:
Hi,
Just been looking through the marketplace and have to say it's rather poor, hardly any apps, and a lot of those that are there are very expensive. Whilst a lot of apps on the iphone are very gimicky, there are apps for just about everything, and there are thousands of free apps. As Microsoft are always competing with Apple on just about every front how come they've let apple get so far ahead in this area? I couldn't even find a basic solitaire came, all I found was freecell, which you have to pay for :-/ Will the marketplace always be poor or is it set to explode?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Marketplace differs from region to region. You may want to look at changing your region (not via settings - it's documented on xda forums) and then see what else is available.
Personally, I think Marketplace is very good, but needs time to grow. You can't expect it to be full when it's only been publicly available for a matter of months.
Incidentally, this isn't a "HD2 vs iPhone" thread. There's no need to make every question a comparison between 2 completely different pieces of hardware.

johncmolyneux said:
Marketplace differs from region to region. You may want to look at changing your region (not via settings - it's documented on xda forums) and then see what else is available.
Personally, I think Marketplace is very good, but needs time to grow. You can't expect it to be full when it's only been publicly available for a matter of months.
Incidentally, this isn't a "HD2 vs iPhone" thread. There's no need to make every question a comparison between 2 completely different pieces of hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, sorry about that, just hard not to when that's what I've got at the moment. If you're going for something new you do tend to always compare it to what you have already, or at least I do
I didn't realise the marketplace has only been available for such a short time, I just assumed it had been around since the start of windows mobile

There's already so much stuff available from other sources (legal I may add) that frankly there's not much use for marketplace until it has grown

snerkler said:
Haha, sorry about that, just hard not to when that's what I've got at the moment. If you're going for something new you do tend to always compare it to what you have already, or at least I do
I didn't realise the marketplace has only been available for such a short time, I just assumed it had been around since the start of windows mobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah - it's in its infancy. It's actually grown a lot recently. When I first went on there there was about 10 apps, but then we found out about the region thing and that opened it up a lot. Also, bear in mind that there's a MASSIVE online arena for windows apps (I'll give you a clue... we're in it now ). The marketplace doesn't have the draw that the appstore has, since so many winmo developers have already got their base set up.

snerkler said:
Hi,
Just been looking through the marketplace and have to say it's rather poor, hardly any apps, and a lot of those that are there are very expensive. Whilst a lot of apps on the iphone are very gimicky, there are apps for just about everything, and there are thousands of free apps. As Microsoft are always competing with Apple on just about every front how come they've let apple get so far ahead in this area? I couldn't even find a basic solitaire came, all I found was freecell, which you have to pay for :-/ Will the marketplace always be poor or is it set to explode?
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find it bad as marketplace default installs everything onto the device without the option of changing it. This obviously uses up (the very limited) storage on the HD2.
I've heard its possible to move them however its just a pain to do and tbh I can't be bothered, I'd just get it from other sources .... thankyou google.

Marketplace
Marketplace is Microsoft's kneejerk response to iphone's app store.
I have not bothered to look at it.
There are at least a dozen websites I can think of that have been selling thousands of apps from dictionaries to games for over a decade.
Appstore exists because it is apples monopoly.
I cannot believe the public who fall for such cheap tricks.
Look outside the cave!

Xaddict said:
Marketplace is Microsoft's kneejerk response to iphone's app store.
I have not bothered to look at it.
There are at least a dozen websites I can think of that have been selling thousands of apps from dictionaries to games for over a decade.
Appstore exists because it is apples monopoly.
I cannot believe the public who fall for such cheap tricks.
Look outside the cave!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to both agree and disagree with you there mate. I know what you're saying about the kneejerk - it does seem like Microsoft are just getting in line with Marketplace, but it does have its advantages over regular downlading and installing of things.
For example, after flashing the recent ROM upgrade, I went to marketplace and just clicked "my apps" and "install all". All the apps I've downloaded in the past were downloaded and installed for me, in the background while I carried on setting up other things on the phone.
Things are usually both black and white.

johncmolyneux said:
"A bit" off topic, and hardly a problem for Marketplace. It's only a problem if your phone has low program storage, like the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Slightly off, however if users are reluctant to purchase from there (possibly because of storage issues) then developers would think twice about hosting their applications there (as i would also assume MS charge for the service in some way or form), its also not only the HD2 that has the device storage limitations, quite a few other WM phones are in the same boat.

jrrigney said:
Slightly off, however if users are reluctant to purchase from there (possibly because of storage issues) then developers would think twice about hosting their applications there (as i would also assume MS charge for the service in some way or form), its also not only the HD2 that has the device storage limitations, quite a few other WM phones are in the same boat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, I just used the HD2 as an example, but you're also right about devs not wanting to put their work somewhere were it will not be as appreciated. Well, I can see them having marketplace and an alternative - handango for example, or their own site. It's still a useful place, even if you only look there for things to search for and download (you know, like the sky movie channels )

this is the best site i found for apps www.freewarepocketpc.net

Are all apps from over places resolution dependent? or will they go full screen?

Theguru1 said:
Are all apps from over places resolution dependent? or will they go full screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That depends on the app. They're all different

I think the marketplace will only see significant growth when mobile 7 is released. At the moment there are too many devices with different screen resolutions, processor speeds and other hardware like GPS / digital compass. When mobile 7 is released and the basics will be set out (like resolution) the app developers will know what they develop will be available for all win mo users

where to get apps??

ok so im new to this had my htc hd2 for about a week now, absolutley love it, but after having the iphone with lots of apps available for free i dont see many in marketplace could someone please tell me where i can get apps.
thankyou

There are a lot of free apps, search the forums in xda.
If you want 'FREE' apps google is your friend, but you can't ask people in here for stuff or links

The Windows Mobile platform is light years behind the iPhone for the application market. Yeh, there's loads around that do some things, but in terms of the micro-applications model that Apple has, WinMo is just nowhere near.
It won't be like that forever, but MSFT is playing catchup. Personally I think the release of WinMo 7 will be the big change that swings a bit of momentum. I still think MSFT need to release a dev environment better than the native (C++) and make it free.
I'm sure there are many more folk on here more qualified to talk such things than I am.

timiano said:
The Windows Mobile platform is light years behind the iPhone for the application market. Yeh, there's loads around that do some things, but in terms of the micro-applications model that Apple has, WinMo is just nowhere near.
It won't be like that forever, but MSFT is playing catchup. Personally I think the release of WinMo 7 will be the big change that swings a bit of momentum. I still think MSFT need to release a dev environment better than the native (C++) and make it free.
I'm sure there are many more folk on here more qualified to talk such things than I am.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ever since I wrote my review iphone vs HD2, the number of Apps in the Windows store has STILL NOT CHANGED !!!! Around 60, vs. 100k for app store? And yes, they even managed to put a fart ap among the 60!
Looking at what you can get for the iphone, I'm considering to sell my HD2. The latest one is my payTV provider that now offers a free of charge iPhone app to watch any of may pay TV chanels on the iPhone.
What about HD2? Not going to do it.
So much for HD2 and WM platform - if the software developers are not developing for it anymore, why stay with WM?

the-uki said:
why stay with WM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it's not made by Apple.

lukohtchd2 said:
ok so im new to this had my htc hd2 for about a week now, absolutley love it, but after having the iphone with lots of apps available for free i dont see many in marketplace could someone please tell me where i can get apps.
thankyou
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.freewareppc.com/
You'll find many (legally) free apps there.

padlad said:
http://www.freewareppc.com/
You'll find many (legally) free apps there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks does anyone no where to get bejwelled 2 with integragated (sp) facebook, that app was awsome on ipod would love it on leo

@timiano and the-uki
Why do you even use the Marketplace? There are tens of thousands of applications for Windows Mobile available! Windows Mobile isn't that far behind at all.
The appliacations just aren't in the Marketplace, but that's huge advantage over the iPhone: With Windows Mobile, you don't have to rely on a company to allow applications, developers can distribute their applications through whatever channel they want.
Don't bother buying anything from the Marketplace.
Instead, have a look at this forum, handango.com, mobihand.com, freewareppc.com and (for games) gameloft.com.
The best Windows Mobile application repository is unfortunately not legal, so I can't mention it, but the sites I mentioned already give you a glance at what is available for Windows Mobile.

the-uki said:
Ever since I wrote my review iphone vs HD2, the number of Apps in the Windows store has STILL NOT CHANGED !!!! Around 60, vs. 100k for app store? And yes, they even managed to put a fart ap among the 60!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many apps do you think were available for the Iphone when it had just been released ?? Probably not much either. So, how can you expect that there's thousands of apps in the Windows store, when it's only just 'open for business'?
As already stated before, there's lot's of places where Windows Mobile Apps are available, many for free!
So stop complaining about the amount of apps in the Windows Store, and try searching the Web.....I hear Google is pretty good doing that for you.

can you pm the link??

i dont know about u but personally i LMAO everytime i see an iphone ad which is actually advertising the tons of apps that 3rd party devs have actually made for them rather than advertising their product....
their moto.. "an app for everything.." lol WM had an app for everything way before apple even developed iphone!
i even had an app for everything in my old Symbian S60 phone

Mabye we can get an XDA "Marketplace" in near future?

Exlo said:
Mabye we can get an XDA "Marketplace" in near future?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that would be good, seen some pretty good stuff here.

sorry for my little remark - it's only a funny comparison, but the question "Where can I find apps?" at xda-developers
is to compare with
"Do you have shoes?" in a shoe shop
sorry, not meant angry or so, just joking

MichelDiamond said:
sorry for my little remark - it's only a funny comparison, but the question "Where can I find apps?" at xda-developers
is to compare with
"Do you have shoes?" in a shoe shop
sorry, not meant angry or so, just joking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like i said in post im new and only joined last night so just getting used to it all.

Check my siggy for some.

download apps
Hello everyone.
I thing that the bests sites for downloading apps for windows mobile 5,6,6.5 is:
http://www.microsoft.com/emea/windowsmobileapps/default.mspx
http://speckyboy.com/2009/07/27/49-free-windows-mobile-6-smartphone-apps-and-services/
http://download.cnet.com/mobile/cell-phone-applications/?filter=os=101
That's all.If i helped you please send me a message.
p.s.:Sorry for my bad english but i speak greek and the english is my second language

skr_xd said:
Check my siggy for some.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cheers dude some awsome apps there i now love my leo alot more

seed_al said:
@timiano and the-uki
Why do you even use the Marketplace? There are tens of thousands of applications for Windows Mobile available! Windows Mobile isn't that far behind at all.
The appliacations just aren't in the Marketplace, but that's huge advantage over the iPhone: With Windows Mobile, you don't have to rely on a company to allow applications, developers can distribute their applications through whatever channel they want.
Don't bother buying anything from the Marketplace.
Instead, have a look at this forum, handango.com, mobihand.com, freewareppc.com and (for games) gameloft.com.
The best Windows Mobile application repository is unfortunately not legal, so I can't mention it, but the sites I mentioned already give you a glance at what is available for Windows Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
Thanks for the reply. I don't use the marketplace as my main source of apps, and I've had an on off relationship with WinMo for quite some time and have used handango extensively in the past.
One of my biggest gripes over the App Store from Apple was its monopoly over what could be or not be in there. MSFT's model appears a little different as they appear to be more concerned about compliance rather than commercial conflicts - which is good.
But honestly, if you want WinMo to compete in the iPhone and Droid space, which I'm sure MSFT want, then their needs to be a marketplace for micro applications that cost reasonable amounts. And the apps need to be slick looking and not your usual .Net CF form bores.
I believe it will come, but it'll take some time.

Exlo said:
Mabye we can get an XDA "Marketplace" in near future?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is an awesome idea. I'm surprised Handango don't have an installable marketplace app. I'd bet money on them having one in the near future though.

Switching To Windows 8 Phone

Hello... hope this finds everyone well.
I am a long time android user and keep getting the urge to jump into the windows phone arena. I was just curious from those who have done the switch what you found good and bad about the experience. Just looking for justifications from either spectrum really before doing so I appreciate all of your time and look forward to hearing your experiences.
Thanks!!

Tancreddo said:
Hello... hope this finds everyone well.
I am a long time android user and keep getting the urge to jump into the windows phone arena. I was just curious from those who have done the switch what you found good and bad about the experience. Just looking for justifications from either spectrum really before doing so I appreciate all of your time and look forward to hearing your experiences.
Thanks!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, it's nice to see you're willing to make the switch.
Honestly, there are some things from Android that you're going to miss here, but there's also a bunch of new exciting stuff on WP, so in the end it all depends on your ability to adopt something new and different.
Although I don't use an Android phone as a daily device (because that place is taken by my Lumia 820), I have one for various mods and stuff, and I just find WP a better option for me (but obviously both have their advantages and disadvantages). The difference in performance and optimization is most visible on low-end hardware - WP excels there, Android not so much. There's also a difference in terms of features and customizability - all those nifty things you could change/modify/replace in Android are mostly not in WP. The hardware of WP mostly caught up to Android, so there shouldn't be any deal breakers there. The store is growing daily and now includes most "major" apps, but it really depends on you whether you'll be able to find your apps or not.
But before you decide and make opinions about WP, I urge you to wait for the 8.1 update - it brings a lot of new stuff and further refines the user experience, so it'd be wise to make judgment based on that. If you can, I suggest you get a cheap WP to have the first taste of the platform, and then decide if you want to upgrade or go back to Android.
In any case, make a decision based on your own opinion and experiences, it'll surely be the right decision for you.

I switched from my Nexus 4 to my Lumia 520 a few months ago.. one thing I noticed is the speed difference. Even though the 520 only has 512 mb of RAM, it feels more fluid than my Nexus 4.

I actually just made the switch.
From a Nexus 4 to a Lumia 925
Its been about a week, so far not regretting it at all. I managed to find all but i think 3 apps or so that i used on android in the WP store. One thing you will notice, some apps dont have all the functionality as they do on android.
What i do notice about WP is that everything is much more fluid. Tasks are easier and quicker to do. Also, in a lot of cases some of the apps on WP are generally nicer than you'll find elsewhere. I am really glad i made the switch. My main reason for switching was because i was just bored with my Nexus, wanted something different.
The only thing that its really missing at the moment is a google music app, i noticed like the day i got my WP, google changed the api or something in google music with borked all the gmusic apps on the windows store. But in everyday use, i dont miss it much. I just use pandora.
Give it a try, people hate on the apps and selection (i did too at one point) but WP has a great selection and some of the apps are absolutely beautiful.

Many people have a go at WP without ever trying it so well done to the OP for this thread.
I have had 10 Android phones and 4 tablets in the past 4 or so years. I think Android is a fantastic OS, easily the most powerful, feature rich and customisable available. In January I was contemplating swapping my N4 for a N5. However looking around at the fact that Android is so popular now I thought about trying WP8. So I got a brand new Ativ S for £140. The plan was to run two phones for a bit. The thing was I never looked at my N4. I know the lack some Google services is a problem but I have music, email & calendar one way or another so I can still interact with my Android family members.
The biggest let down in WP8 is the browser. IE is …. erm not very good. It needs text reflow (but so does Chrome) as a start but in reality MS need to open the platform to allow other browsers to run their own engines.
My advice is to see how tied in you are to Google and Android apps and see if any are missing on WP8. If the missing ones are vital to you then maybe WP8 isn’t for you.
I am now waiting for the new set hardware coming later in the year. I will then decide whether to get a new WP device or go back to android.

finbaar said:
The biggest let down in WP8 is the browser. IE is …. erm not very good. It needs text reflow (but so does Chrome) as a start but in reality MS need to open the platform to allow other browsers to run their own engines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Luckily, IE is getting several improvements in 8.1, so it'll be a more viable option for people. The thing that's missing the most IMO is password management. Every decent browser should have it...
finbaar said:
My advice is to see how tied in you are to Google and Android apps and see if any are missing on WP8. If the missing ones are vital to you then maybe WP8 isn’t for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, if you're heavily tied into Google's ecosystem, you may need to reconsider your choice. Not that support for Google's products and services totally sucks, but it's quite lacking compared to what it could be (mostly Google's fault). But the good thing is, if you manage to make the switch to Microsoft's services, they've got you covered.

Me too.. my final android phone was the Xperia z (for a few days).. i just got bored of Android, wanted something different... i may get the LG G Pro 2 when it comes to the Market as a second phone, but my Nokia 1520 is not going anywhere in the near Future.

Super_Sport said:
Me too.. my final android phone was the Xperia z (for a few days).. i just got bored of Android, wanted something different... i may get the LG G Pro 2 when it comes to the Market as a second phone, but my Nokia 1520 is not going anywhere in the near Future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am considering a WP however the applications ... Will I be able to install free programs like we do on Android? I can download games and chunky programs from android app sites, and don't burn my precious internet credit.

agispapatias said:
I am considering a WP however the applications ... Will I be able to install free programs like we do on Android? I can download games and chunky programs from android app sites, and don't burn my precious internet credit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on how you define "free". There's free and trial versions of apps available on WP as well. There's only one store for WP, but you don't really need 10 app stores just to get your apps, do you? But if you're talking about piracy, you're out of luck.

DaviUnic said:
Depends on how you define "free". There's free and trial versions of apps available on WP as well. There's only one store for WP, but you don't really need 10 app stores just to get your apps, do you? But if you're talking about piracy, you're out of luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean is the system accessible like android? In android I can download and install apps from other sources like app sites.
Do WP has a similar system?

As I said, no, and doesn't really need one because quality apps are found in the store. The only other source of apps are homemade apps, but you need dev unlock for that.

DaviUnic said:
you need dev unlock for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It`s free. And @reker says you`re free to install 10 apps now (was 2 for free unlock).