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Hey, I have bought myself a second-hand Universal and found it turn off at about 40% of battery. Could it be a software fault?
i have the same problem ( need help plz
i have the same problem ( need help plz
I'm pretty sure it's a battery issue. It has been reported numerous times, my Universal started turning off at ~35% battery after about one year, bought a new one, problem solved.
akpidis said:
I'm pretty sure it's a battery issue. It has been reported numerous times, my Universal started turning off at ~35% battery after about one year, bought a new one, problem solved.
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oh....
Maybe it is somehow recoverable?
I have no money for a new one... in my country they're quite expensive.
i have the same problem in wm5 and mw6
cycling the battery
You could try cycling the battery. Its probably LithiumION. You need to somehow drain it all the way down, then charge it up all the way a few times.
This should bring the battery back to full capacity. Only you can't do it on the phone cuz the phone shuts off at 40%.
That may or may not work. Typical life of a lithium Ion is only 2-3 years.
Ebay has really good deals on them for phones.
It is a battery issue.
Why don't you search a little.
There are some exact same threads already.
Buy a new battery!!!!
All well an good saying look at other threads and "buy a battery" but from my experience I am very sceptical about this issue. I have read many forums on other similar phones and it appears that the Exec seems to be the only model that seems to have this battery issue.
I cannot seriously believe that buying a new battery is the answer, there must be an underlying problem here which allways goes unanswered...!!!
I am now on my third battery, the last one lasted no more than four weeks when it started shutting down at around 75%, and this was a battery from the manufacturer...
My only other option now is to purchase a big blob of a thing which once fitted, will not allow my exec to sit in its cradle whilst on the move...
oh... these Universals seem quite problematic, but anyway I think i'll stay with one a little longer.
I think Universal needs too much power and this is why batteries, which loose some voltage after being drained, are so weak with it.
Some say that when they turn WiFi on, the battery faints at 80% I think it is caused because WiFi module takes even more power.
The problem is, Li-Ion batteries only last around 1000 dis-/charge-cycles. (see Wikipedia) and on WM6 I found no way to disable the charging while connected to my PC. (Okay, I didn't try another cable.) So every time you plug your device to your PC for some minutes, it's like charging your battery and it gets a bit weaker.
Also there's no memory-effect with Li-Ion-batteries so a full discharge followed by a full charge may not bring any results despite of an even worse capacity. You should only do this on the very first usage of the battery.
Wikipedia also says the capacity depends on the age of the battery. So if your dealer sells you a battery he has had in his shelf for 2 years, it won't have the capacity as a brand new one.
Read Wikipedia for more info on Li-Ion batteries. WM6 seems to consume some more power than WM5 and thus the battery shuts down a bit sooner than with WM5. It's really a battery issue.
If you could manage to charge the battery only when it is at around 10%, it will last longer than if you charge it every day or even on every PC connection.
Cheers,
-mARKUS
So every time you plug your device to your PC for some minutes, it's like charging your battery and it gets a bit weaker.
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Also there's no memory-effect with Li-Ion-batteries
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If you could manage to charge the battery only when it is at around 10%, it will last longer than if you charge it every day or even on every PC connection.
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AFAIK there is no problem to charge Li-Ion batteries every day even if it still has any level of charge exactly because there is no memory-effect.
from my experience - WM6 issue
reverted back to WM5 and now it happens at 20% rather than 40% previously with WM6.
try reverting back to WM5 to find if that is the same case for you as well.....
If you could manage to charge the battery only when it is at around 10%, it will last longer than if you charge it every day or even on every PC connection.
-mARKUS
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this ain't what HTC FAQ section says. That states the battery can be charged at any level withoyut any detriment to the battery life over a period of time.
before everybody tells me the search function, I already have but I find mixed and contradiction answers on this issue. Some people say to do a full discharge followed by a full recharge as soon as you get the phone. Then on the other hand some people say that you shouldn't do this since the x1 uses a li-ion and its bad for it. Some people say you should charge it only when it's near empty, but on the other hand some people say to keep charging it as often as possible. Some say to take it off the charger once its fully charged, but then some say its ok to leave a fully charged battery on the charger.
As you can see, from searching the forum I've gotten pretty confused. so what is the PROPER way to charge our x1 battery? Is it also true that battery life gets better the more you put it on the charger? Does the x1i get better battery life than the x1a? I'm asking this because I'm gettin very poor battery life on my x1 compared to the 1-3 days of heavy usage that I see other people gettin on this forum. I'm going to exchange it today for a new one, so I don't want to make the same mistakes with charging my battery as I did with the first one.
Charging:
Do charge the battery often.
The battery lasts longer with partial rather than full discharges.
Discharging:
Avoid full cycle because of wear.
80% depth-of-discharge recommended.
Re- charge more often. Avoid full discharge.
Low voltage may cut off safety circuit.
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From:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-21.htm
dogans said:
From:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-21.htm
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that is very true......i get better life (3days) when i charge from 50%. otherwise i barely get more than 24hr.
thanks, that helps a lot! but what do I do once the battery has finished fully charging on the charger? should I take it off or is it fine to still leave it on the charger?
i have noticed this today,
i have installed a battery indicator bar (i cant remember which one) i charged my my X1 during night, when i woke up, i found that the phone is not charging and the battery is full. so i think that the phone automatically stopps charging when the battery reaches 100%
anyone can confirm that?
Not sure about the way to charge it, but i can comment on your current battery life. when i got mine, i had 1 days battery life, but after flashing it, i'm now getting between 3-4 days......
i used
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=458768
Glad to see that there are people that read the "real" stuff (I'm talking about dogans), the batteryuniversity site is mantained by the very battery fabricants, so their opinions are the best informed ones, even if they might bias a little to keep the bussiness "healthy".
However, any Lithium battery should not be fully discharged -at least not often-, because the full discharge shortens their life.
Usually, good chargers do control the charging parameters (battery's voltage, current and temperature curves) while it charges and "know" when to stop, even if they really don't stop ever (normally), the go in "tickle" charging mode, to keep the battery "fully" charged.
Hope this helps.
The article on Wikipedia about Li-Ion batteries is quite informative as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery
It specifies the technology, the do's, the dont's and usefull tips in keeping your battery in good condition.
Prior to getting the Galaxy S, after I read what Samsung were saying in the manual of not to overcharge, I investigated the reasons and wrote in various topics on the battery and the differences between Li-Ion & Li-Pol battery types.
At that point with all the evidence found it made sense to believe that what Samsung were saying in not to overcharge was accurate.
Basically, at that time it was believed the phone used a Li-Pol, Li-Pol batteries are different in that they are 'wet cell' as opposed to Li-Ion which are 'dry cell' charged.
Li-Pol can be manufactured much thinner but can not be manufactured in different shapes.
This is to allow the wet cells whilst under charge which become hot to move around the battery freely. If a Li-Pol was manufactured in different shapes like Li-Ion it would create a 'hot-spot' in an area where the wet cell could not move fluidly around the remainder of the battery.
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
Anyway, moving on to the present.......
After now getting the phone and doing a bit of testing I have found the overcharging issue NOT to be an issue.
When you commence a charge on the phone the icon changes to a charge state.
However, once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
So to all of us who have been worried about overcharging, my personal advise is to NOT worry and charge as and when you feel the need.
Hope this helps.
Beards
Thanks for clear up, I was always been scared while charging that it may blow up.
Nice find!
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
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When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
I have just charged mine from bone empty to full. A notification came up stating that the battery was full and to disconnect the charger. Although the battery monitor app says it is not charging and the normal battery meter has gone solid.
I agree that it seems to stop the charging circuit. Although I thought we were getting LiPo not li ion for these as well it's definitely li ion though.
Morbo66 said:
When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
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Take the battery out and turn it over. Now read the battery type and you will see it says Li-Ion.
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
hkfriends said:
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
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Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
Beards said:
...once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
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To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
Beards said:
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
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AFAIK, the reason to fully deplete the battery is to properly calibrate the % remaining in your battery. Running your battery down to empty causes more stress to the phone than running it down 50%. I happened to get a free battery with my device, but I would've bought a spare if I didn't get a free one, so I can easily go 3-5 days depending on usage, during this time I have my house and work to do charges. However, let's say I were to be expecting to have less frequent charges, such as taking a vacation, prior to that I would be fully depleting the battery to 0% to calibrate because then the battery level is more important to me. The trade off of long-term life vs short term accuracy is a very easy decision for me to make due to my situation.
In older batteries you had to "use the cells or lose them" situation where it was better, to at least occasionally, completely run down the device rather than doing partial cycles. These days, charging @ 50% 2 times is equivalent to 1 cycle of 100% with less long-term "stress" to the battery.
borchgrevink said:
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
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Same for me.
The reason it tells you to unplug the charger when done charging has nothing to do with battery. It is to save power. Battery chargers still draw some power just because they are plugged in. And in these green times it is ofcourse very popular to have warnings everywhere so you can claim to a green company. And every lithium ion and polymer battery contains electronics designed to protect them from abuse. Including over charging. So that will never be a problem on any phone unless you have a defective battery.
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
Joans said:
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
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I think I read that the newest, or maybe just a random middle since something has superseded it, firmware fixed this.
interesting topic thx Beards for sharing your insights.
Overcharging - read the manual
Guys, if you will read the manual that came with your SGS, it says there that "DO NOT OVERCHARGE YOUR BATTERY FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS". It obviously means that the battery can be overcharged for more than a day as long as it is not more than 2 weeks ( I doubt if someone will be able to do that). So that confirms also that we can recharge anytime and not necessarily have it done to zero before charging. Hope this helps also
i've pretty much quit worrying about the overcharge after the first month of usage
i was following the auto pop up message, just because i wanted to conserve battery
but having 3 spare battery made me though it's futile
and it was extreme annoying to wakeup in the middle of the night, just to unplug it
it was awesome the day i found that patch on the forum to disable the annoying pop up alert that your battery is full.
now i can sleep the whole night without the alert coming online, and rest at ease knowing if the phone actually alerts me, it'll be a phone call or something important, not some annoying "unplug me plz!" message
I realize that much of this is common knowledge on XDA. Still, every day I see people post about how their phone "loses" 10% as soon as it comes off the charger. I also have friends who can't understand why their battery drains so quickly. Trying to explain this to people without hard numbers is often met with doubt, so I figured that I'd actually plot it out with real data.
So it's not a piece that is optimized for this audience, but I hope that you find it interesting.
--------------------------------------------------
Your Smartphone is Lying to You
(and it's not such a bad thing)
Climbing out of bed, about to start your day, you unplug your new smartphone from its wall charger and quickly check your email. You've left it plugged in overnight, and the battery gauge shows 100%. After a quick shower, you remember that you forgot to send your client a file last night. You pick up your phone again, but the battery gauge now reads 90%. A 10% drop in 10 minutes? The phone must be defective, right?
A common complaint about today's smartphones is their short battery life compared to older cell phones. Years ago, if you accidentally left your charger at home, your phone could still make it through a weeklong vacation with life to spare (I did it more than once). With the newest phones on the market, you might be lucky enough to make it through a weekend.
And why should we expect anything else? Phones used to have a very short list of features: make and receive phone calls. Today we use them for email, web surfing, GPS navigation, photos, video, games, and a host of other tasks. They used to sport tiny displays, while we now have giant touch screens with bright and vibrant colors. All of these features come at a cost: large energy requirements.
Interestingly enough, improvements in battery management technology have compounded the average user's perception of this problem. Older phones were rather inelegant in their charging behavior; usually filling the battery to capacity and then switching to a trickle current to maintain the highest charge possible. This offered the highest usage time in the short-term, but was damaging the battery over the course of ownership. As explained at Battery University, "The time at which the battery stays at [maximum charge] should be as short as possible. Prolonged high voltage promotes corrosion, especially at elevated temperatures."[1]
This is why many new phones will "lose" up to 10% within a few minutes of coming off the charger. The reality is that the battery was only at 100% capacity for a brief moment, after which the battery management system allowed it to slowly dip down to around 90%. Leaving the phone plugged in overnight does not make a difference: the phone only uses the wall current to maintain a partial charge state.
To monitor this, I installed CurrentWidget on my HTC ADR6300 (Droid Incredible), an app that can log how much electric current is being drawn from the battery or received from the charger. Setting it to record log entries every 10 seconds, I have collected a few days worth of data. While many variables are involved (phone hardware, ROM, kernel, etc) and no two devices will perform exactly the same, the trends that I will describe are becoming more common in new phones. This is not just isolated to a single platform or a single manufacturer.
Chart 1 shows system reported battery levels over the course of one night, with the phone plugged in to a charger. Notice that as the battery level approaches 100%, the charging current gradually decreases. After a full charge is reached, wall current is cut completely, with the phone switching back to the battery for all of its power. It isn't until about two hours later that you can see the phone starts receiving wall current again, and even then it is only in brief bursts.
The steep drop in reported battery seen past the 6.5 hour mark shows the phone being unplugged. While the current draw does increase at this point (since the phone is being used), it still cannot account for the reported 6% depletion in 3 minutes. It should also be obvious that maintaining a 100% charge state is impossible given the long spans in which the phone is only operating on battery power.
Using the data from CurrentWidget, however, it is quite easy to project the actual battery state. Starting with the assumption that the first battery percentage reading is accurate, each subsequent point is calculated based on mA draw and time. Chart 2 includes this projection.
Now we can see that the 6% drop after unplugging is simply the battery gauge catching up with reality.
The phone manufacturers essentially have three choices:
1. Use older charging styles which actually maintain a full battery, thereby decreasing its eventual life
2. Use new charging methods and have an accurate battery gauge
3. Use new charging methods and have the inaccurate battery gauge
Option one has clearly fallen out of favor as it prematurely wears devices. Option two, while being honest, would most likely be met with many complaints. After all, how many people want to see their phone draining down to 90% while it is still plugged in? Option three therefore offers an odd compromise. Maybe phone companies think that users will be less likely to worry about a quick drop off the charger than they will worry about a "defective" charger that doesn't keep their phone at 100% while plugged in.
Bump It. Or Should You?
One technique that has gained popularity in the user community is "bump charging." To bump charge a device, turn it off completely, and plug it into a charger. Wait until the indicator light shows a full charge (on the ADR6300, for example, the charging LED changes from amber to green) but do not yet turn the device back on. Instead, disconnect and immediately reconnect the power cord. The device will now accept more charge before saying it is full. This disconnect/reconnect process can be repeated multiple times, each time squeezing just a little bit more into the battery. Does it work?
The following chart plots battery depletion after the device has received a hefty bump charge (6 cycles) and then turned on to use battery power. Note that the system does not show the battery dropping from 100% until well over an hour of unplugged use, at which point it starts to steadily decline. Again, however, it should be obvious that the battery gauge is not syncing up with reality. How could the rate of depletion be increasing over the first 5 hours while the rate of current draw is relatively steady? And why does the projected battery line separate from the reported levels, but then exactly mirror the later rises and falls?
The answer, of course, is that bump charging definitely works. Rather than anchoring our projected values to the first data point of 100%, what happens if we anchor against a later point in the plot?
Aligning the data suggests that a heavy bump charge increases initial capacity by approximately 15%. Note that the only other time that the lines separate in this graph was once again when the phone was put on the charger and topped up to 100%. Just as with the first set of graphs, the phone kept reporting 100% until it was unplugged, dropped rapidly, and again caught up with our projections.
So what does it all mean?
If you absolutely need the highest capacity on a device like this, you will need to bump charge. There are currently people experimenting with "fixes" for this, but I have yet to see one that works. Be warned, however, that repeated bump charging will wear your battery faster and begin to reduce its capacity. If you are a "power user" who will buy a new battery a few months from now anyway, this presumably isn't a concern. If you are an average consumer who uses a device for a few years, I would recommend that you stay away from bump charging. The bottom line is that you don't really "need" to do it unless you are actually depleting your battery to 0% on a regular basis.
If you are someone who can top off your phone on a regular basis, do it. Plug it in when you're at home. Plug it in when you're at your desk. As explained by Battery University, "Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory."[2]
Beyond that, the best advice I can offer is to stop paying such close attention to your battery gauge and to just use your phone. Charge it whenever you can, and then stop obsessing over the exact numbers. If you really need more usage time, buy an extended-capacity battery and use it normally.
Pretty nice to know why it drops from 100% so fast now .....THANKS!
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Well written ..even prior to the data presentation!
Are the images not posted or am I doing something wrong?
Great read, well thought out and explained.
The only thing I'll add is that while there isn't a "memory affect" on our batteries, it is still recommended to do a full charge/discharge (don't let it get to <5% though) about once every 3 months.
Thanks for the kind words, gents.
spatton said:
Are the images not posted or am I doing something wrong?
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You should be able to see them embedded in the post. You can try reading it directly from my site: http://byrong.com/PowerTesting/
I'm not currently aware of any issues with my hosting, so hopefully it shows up OK for people.
toosurreal01 said:
The only thing I'll add is that while there isn't a "memory affect" on our batteries, it is still recommended to do a full charge/discharge (don't let it get to <5% though) about once every 3 months.
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Good point for many devices which may learn the wrong battery stats if they are never depleted. I am still not sure how this may or may not apply to our devices, so I hesitate to comment on it one way or the other.
I hope someone takes the time to delve more deeply into the battery stats that our devices record. Given the fact that we can wipe them using clockwork recovery, we are at least aware of where/how they are being kept.
That brings up another point worth mentioning, by the way: some people claim that wiping battery stats after a bump charge is a "fix" to increase the total charge that our phones will later apply. This has not been my experience. I have bumped/wiped in accordance with the various tutorials out there, but even afterward I have still found a large difference between a subsequent bump-charging and regular charging.
For some reason, my employer does not like your site and as such, I could not see he images.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. You confirmed my suspicions that I never documented but certainly experienced.
My take on the battery thing now, especially after reading this:
Actively and aggressively seek chargers
Don't look at he specific % of battery, when it gets yellow, get more aggressive
Relax
Use it in the morning, charge it while you shower - better than running out the door.
Great article!
I used to bump charge now if I'm near a charger I just throw it on for a few minutes. I also always carry a spare battery on me.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Very nice.
I have a couple questions though. So on older phones, leaving it plugged in and it hit 100%, but was still getting full current from the charger for the remainder of the night, damages the battery right? so bump charging is doing the same thing, but not really damaging it as much, becuase we're unplugging it as soon as the light turns green, so its "at 100%" but we arent leaving it plugged in for hours after its green.
Excellent read. Very informative and well written!!
very well written. thank you, sir
spatton said:
For some reason, my employer does not like your site and as such, I could not see he images.
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Wow, I'm a little flattered. This is the first time I've heard of an employer blocking my site.
ufvj217 said:
So on older phones, leaving it plugged in and it hit 100%, but was still getting full current from the charger for the remainder of the night, damages the battery right?
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I don't have hard data for my older devices like I do for this phone, so my answers to this (and your following questions) are a mixture of anecdote, reading, and conjecture.
I don't think that the older devices were still getting full current after hitting 100% but rather some sort of trickle charge to keep them topped off. Battery chemistry itself will limit the charging current that can be applied as the battery approaches capacity.
Depending on the device and its management system, damage could come from too much charge being applied, or it could simply come from keeping the battery at the highest charge level possible for prolonged periods. That may sound like the same thing, but technically it's not.
Batteries are wear items, and even use under ideal conditions will eventually kill them. As shown on Battery University's page on prolonging lithium-based batteries, however, even minor decreases in the final charge level will greatly increase the number of cycles that a battery can endure (note figure 2)
ufvj217 said:
so bump charging is doing the same thing, but not really damaging it as much, becuase we're unplugging it as soon as the light turns green, so its "at 100%" but we arent leaving it plugged in for hours after its green.
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I'm not 100% sure whether:
Bump-charging is simply charging the battery to its physical capacity, which is greater than the capacity that our software thinks is appropriate;
Bump-charging is actually applying a charge to the battery that is outside of the rated specs for the battery; or
Some mix of 1 & 2
Also, since I can't use any logging tools while the phone is off, I'm not sure how the current behaves once the phone hits 'green' while off.
I therefore don't want to make a hard guess at the three options listed, as I don't want to spread false information. With that said, I think it is apparent through both testing and real-world use that bump-charging applies a charge that is higher than what is allowed when all of the phone's protections are "awake." Given that, we have to ask ourselves why the waking protections are stricter.
If you are inclined to believe that the manufacturer is setting limits that are too low, in an effort to prolong cycle life (or limit liability), then maybe bump-charging isn't too bad.
If you are inclined to believe that the manufacturer chose the charging limits for a good reason, and has the best interest of the consumer in mind, then bump-charging should be considered problematic.
I don't know if one of these is absolutely true over the other, but my life is easier without bump-charging, so I just avoid it. That's a personal choice though. I'm not trying to advance a position here as much as I'm trying to spread information and spark discussion.
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read, and for your questions and comments.
Well put. I rarely bump charge myself, sometimes once i get to work (its at 88-90% by this time, 7am) ill charge it back up, then power it off and bump charge it a couple times. depending on what ill be doing that day after work. since im at a desk though all day, i usually just use it, when it gets to about 50 or so, ill plug it back in, etc. that seems to work fine for me. i do have the htc 2150 battery as well
Like you said, most people probably knew most of that, but still great to see it well written and explained.
Great job on this, I'll most definitely be passing it along to people who ask me what's going on.
Again, well written and very well explained.
Thanks
Thank you!
This has been perplexing me for some time now. Thanks for the info!
Well if youre looking for a batt fix that fixes this issue, you have to take a look in the Nexus and Desire forums. The Desire has it working for sure and I'm not sure about the Nexus. Unfortunately, their fix cannot be applied to our phones because we use a different battery driver...>.< sucks.
And bump charging works sometimes, idk why people turn off their phone to bump charge, thats actually worse than bump charging it when the phone is on. Bump charging when the phone is on is the best thing, the reason why is because percentage means actually nothing with these phones. THe percentage is read from the batterystats.bin file (I think..), which can easily be manipulated. Bump charging works because it rewrites that file once it hits 100% and at the same time, charges back to the highest voltage possible.
I've been working on a fix for our phones (i personally dont own an Incredible, I own an Evo and they use the same driver) and I'm pretty much close. Been on it 24/7 for the past few weeks and all I have to deal with now is the charger timer that seems to reset at a certain time that I cant seem to find yet. This fix should also calibrate the battery on each charge so that you will no longer need to wipe stats or bump charge or do any of that stuff.
so you can charge with the phone on until the led is green, unplug, plug back in (with phone still on) and itll change back to amber for a while?
ufvj217 said:
so you can charge with the phone on until the led is green, unplug, plug back in (with phone still on) and itll change back to amber for a while?
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if you unplug and plug back in instantly it wont do jack for ya. You gotta unplug, wait until you hit 99% and then plug it back in and wait for 100%. Doing that while the phone is on is best because if you've ever noticed, the batterystats gets messed up while the phone is off for the most part (ex: Recovery mode and stuff). Also, idk if this is true for the Inc, but with the Evo, if you have the phone on the charger while its off and power it on while the LED is green, it doesnt stay charging, it goes off the charger to use some battery to power on and then it charges and that messes with the batterystats which messes with the voltage for some odd reason.
Very nicely done. There are always going to be people who don't get it, but this is easily the best synopsis I've seen yet. People get all wrapped up in numbers, instead of actual use, and the percentage becomes way more important than it should be. Just do whatever you need to do (keep a charger handy, get a bigger battery) to support your needs.
I'm one of the fortunate ones... between the tweaks I've done with custom kernels and whatnot and the fact that I'm not a real heavy user, I have no problem making it from morning to bedtime with more than 50% remaining. And you know what? I don't care whether my phone's at 70% or 10% when I plug it in before bed. As long as it makes it that far, I'm happy. I could easily go two days between charges, but I don't bother, because there really isn't any point other than to gloat about my great battery life, which doesn't impress anyone. I've got a charger, and I use it every night. It works for me.
One of the best posts i ever read here! Kudos from an electrical engineer
Hello, so I just got a new Moto X style about a month ago, I need your advice from something, should I charge my phone at 30-40%? if yes then will it have long term damage/worn out my phone?
Thank you
The golden rules are
Don't ever go below 10%
The battery is happiest (most chemically stable) around 40%
Try to spend as little time above 90% as practically possible, especially when charging/using the device. This means never leaving the device plugged overnight
Avoid heat i.e., Do not overtax the phone in an environment like a small, hot room; Avoid simultaneous charging/GPS in the car with the phone in direct sunlight
To combine the last two items, especially avoid high temperatures at higher battery levels. This will degrade the battery very quickly
I've also read stuff about the discharge depth. Something to the tune of discharging the battery from 80% to 60% before charging is better than discharging from 80% to 40% before charging. I've never paid that much attention, because nobody wants to charge their phone 3 times a day, but apparently topping up is better than charging from near empty.
I've had my Pure for a little more than 6 months now. I have been consistently plugging in when my battery hits 30%. My battery life is as good as it has always been.
QuantumFluxx said:
The golden rules are
Don't ever go below 10%
The battery is happiest (most chemically stable) around 40%
Try to spend as little time above 90% as practically possible, especially when charging/using the device. This means never leaving the device plugged overnight
Avoid heat i.e., Do not overtax the phone in an environment like a small, hot room; Avoid simultaneous charging/GPS in the car with the phone in direct sunlight
To combine the last two items, especially avoid high temperatures at higher battery levels. This will degrade the battery very quickly
I've also read stuff about the discharge depth. Something to the tune of discharging the battery from 80% to 60% before charging is better than discharging from 80% to 40% before charging. I've never paid that much attention, because nobody wants to charge their phone 3 times a day, but apparently topping up is better than charging from near empty.
I've had my Pure for a little more than 6 months now. I have been consistently plugging in when my battery hits 30%. My battery life is as good as it has always been.
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IMO charging overnight dont do anything to the battery, phone stops charging at 100% and start to use energy from the charger, but im with you with the 10%.
I think all these "rules" are all just bunk and superstition... If you make it through the day, plug it in overnight, and start again in the morning, if not when the battery is low, charge it when it is convenient, don't be scared of "overcharging" as that isn't really possible anymore with electronics in batteries and devices. The device is meant to be used, not babied.
These lion lipm battery do not actually ever charge to their full capacity. This is by design so 100 % is really around 80 in reality and 0 is around 8 to 10%. Again this is by design the chipset monitors the battery temperature and charge load as well as discharge load and compensates for heat and load. All this crap about charging at different rates and in different situations is bunk written by people that don't realize battery design is constantly changing. And since quick charge 1 things have changed a ton.
RK2116 said:
IMO charging overnight dont do anything to the battery, phone stops charging at 100% and start to use energy from the charger, but im with you with the 10%.
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Sooo does this mean I can charge my phone over night using the Turbo charger 25W that comes with the phone?
acejavelin said:
I think all these "rules" are all just bunk and superstition... If you make it through the day, plug it in overnight, and start again in the morning, if not when the battery is low, charge it when it is convenient, don't be scared of "overcharging" as that isn't really possible anymore with electronics in batteries and devices. The device is meant to be used, not babied.
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So does this mean i can charge it over night with the turbo charger?
HerySean said:
So does this mean i can charge it over night with the turbo charger?
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Yes
acejavelin said:
Yes
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+1
---------- Post added at 06:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
HerySean said:
Sooo does this mean I can charge my phone over night using the Turbo charger 25W that comes with the phone?
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Yes.
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
QuantumFluxx said:
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
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Have you verified that he is running exactly the same apps as you with exactly the same service throughout the day. If not then your supposing that charging is the issue is simply a guess. The only way to determine exactly would be a to set them up exactly the same and run them exactly the same in exactly the same conditions for a week or more and log the battery life..
autosurgeon said:
Have you verified that he is running exactly the same apps as you with exactly the same service throughout the day. If not then your supposing that charging is the issue is simply a guess. The only way to determine exactly would be a to set them up exactly the same and run them exactly the same in exactly the same conditions for a week or more and log the battery life..
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I run more than he does. He is older, and does not use social media. I use FB/Messenger, Snapchat, Twitter, and Instagram with push notifications enabled. Our standby battery drains are very different from 100%. His device hits 90 while mine is reading 94. The devices are physically next to one another. I only know this because he's at my house every weekend. He always plugs my phone in when he plugs in his even though I've told him not to a hundred times. There are probably other factors involved, but I always attributed the difference to him constantly leaving his phone plugged in for hours on end.
Have you looked at his screen timeout? Screen brightness. Or checked to see if he has a misbehaving app? Does he have wifi at his house ? Or is his doing all it's updates at your place? See there are tons of variables that have nothing to do with charging that are simply more likely to be causing the issue you are noticing
autosurgeon said:
Have you looked at his screen timeout? Screen brightness. Or checked to see if he has a misbehaving app? Does he have wifi at his house ? Or is his doing all it's updates at your place? See there are tons of variables that have nothing to do with charging that are simply more likely to be causing the issue you are noticing
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I mean, I wouldn't describe what I'm observing as an 'issue'. I understand where you're coming from though. I have gone to war against errant battery drains in the past. Lollipop/Marshmallow's mobile radio drain is something I surely won't miss. He does have Wifi at his house for app updates and such.
Just for the clarity's sake, we're talking about:
2 identical devices, running the same version of Android and the same ROM, which are connected to the same mobile and wifi networks, in the same physical location - so service quality is not a variable, unless there is a hardware issue. Both devices are [simultaneously] charged to 100%, and then they are unplugged and their screens remain off. Upon checking both devices a little while later, mine is at 94% while his is at 90%. My device is encrypted, rooted, has custom kernel settings relating to the governor, read ahead, and entropy, and runs various GCM social/messaging apps, and has an extensive Tasker setup. His device is untouched. Both devices have been fully drained and recharged at least once in the past 60 days.
I have looked at his battery usage, which I log with 3C Toolbox. There is no excessive drain from any apps, the cell radio, the kernel, etc...
Regardless of what is causing it, the observable evidence is curious.
QuantumFluxx said:
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
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Not saying you are wrong, but the scenario you give is at best circumstantial with the given info. It does not account for other factors such as apps installed, network connectivity, how the phone is being used, etc.
Screen brightness can drastically change how long until you have to recharge. Mine is usually only 1/4 of the way up.