Hello, so I just got a new Moto X style about a month ago, I need your advice from something, should I charge my phone at 30-40%? if yes then will it have long term damage/worn out my phone?
Thank you
The golden rules are
Don't ever go below 10%
The battery is happiest (most chemically stable) around 40%
Try to spend as little time above 90% as practically possible, especially when charging/using the device. This means never leaving the device plugged overnight
Avoid heat i.e., Do not overtax the phone in an environment like a small, hot room; Avoid simultaneous charging/GPS in the car with the phone in direct sunlight
To combine the last two items, especially avoid high temperatures at higher battery levels. This will degrade the battery very quickly
I've also read stuff about the discharge depth. Something to the tune of discharging the battery from 80% to 60% before charging is better than discharging from 80% to 40% before charging. I've never paid that much attention, because nobody wants to charge their phone 3 times a day, but apparently topping up is better than charging from near empty.
I've had my Pure for a little more than 6 months now. I have been consistently plugging in when my battery hits 30%. My battery life is as good as it has always been.
QuantumFluxx said:
The golden rules are
Don't ever go below 10%
The battery is happiest (most chemically stable) around 40%
Try to spend as little time above 90% as practically possible, especially when charging/using the device. This means never leaving the device plugged overnight
Avoid heat i.e., Do not overtax the phone in an environment like a small, hot room; Avoid simultaneous charging/GPS in the car with the phone in direct sunlight
To combine the last two items, especially avoid high temperatures at higher battery levels. This will degrade the battery very quickly
I've also read stuff about the discharge depth. Something to the tune of discharging the battery from 80% to 60% before charging is better than discharging from 80% to 40% before charging. I've never paid that much attention, because nobody wants to charge their phone 3 times a day, but apparently topping up is better than charging from near empty.
I've had my Pure for a little more than 6 months now. I have been consistently plugging in when my battery hits 30%. My battery life is as good as it has always been.
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Click to collapse
IMO charging overnight dont do anything to the battery, phone stops charging at 100% and start to use energy from the charger, but im with you with the 10%.
I think all these "rules" are all just bunk and superstition... If you make it through the day, plug it in overnight, and start again in the morning, if not when the battery is low, charge it when it is convenient, don't be scared of "overcharging" as that isn't really possible anymore with electronics in batteries and devices. The device is meant to be used, not babied.
These lion lipm battery do not actually ever charge to their full capacity. This is by design so 100 % is really around 80 in reality and 0 is around 8 to 10%. Again this is by design the chipset monitors the battery temperature and charge load as well as discharge load and compensates for heat and load. All this crap about charging at different rates and in different situations is bunk written by people that don't realize battery design is constantly changing. And since quick charge 1 things have changed a ton.
RK2116 said:
IMO charging overnight dont do anything to the battery, phone stops charging at 100% and start to use energy from the charger, but im with you with the 10%.
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Sooo does this mean I can charge my phone over night using the Turbo charger 25W that comes with the phone?
acejavelin said:
I think all these "rules" are all just bunk and superstition... If you make it through the day, plug it in overnight, and start again in the morning, if not when the battery is low, charge it when it is convenient, don't be scared of "overcharging" as that isn't really possible anymore with electronics in batteries and devices. The device is meant to be used, not babied.
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So does this mean i can charge it over night with the turbo charger?
HerySean said:
So does this mean i can charge it over night with the turbo charger?
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Yes
acejavelin said:
Yes
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+1
---------- Post added at 06:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
HerySean said:
Sooo does this mean I can charge my phone over night using the Turbo charger 25W that comes with the phone?
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Yes.
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
QuantumFluxx said:
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
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Have you verified that he is running exactly the same apps as you with exactly the same service throughout the day. If not then your supposing that charging is the issue is simply a guess. The only way to determine exactly would be a to set them up exactly the same and run them exactly the same in exactly the same conditions for a week or more and log the battery life..
autosurgeon said:
Have you verified that he is running exactly the same apps as you with exactly the same service throughout the day. If not then your supposing that charging is the issue is simply a guess. The only way to determine exactly would be a to set them up exactly the same and run them exactly the same in exactly the same conditions for a week or more and log the battery life..
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Click to collapse
I run more than he does. He is older, and does not use social media. I use FB/Messenger, Snapchat, Twitter, and Instagram with push notifications enabled. Our standby battery drains are very different from 100%. His device hits 90 while mine is reading 94. The devices are physically next to one another. I only know this because he's at my house every weekend. He always plugs my phone in when he plugs in his even though I've told him not to a hundred times. There are probably other factors involved, but I always attributed the difference to him constantly leaving his phone plugged in for hours on end.
Have you looked at his screen timeout? Screen brightness. Or checked to see if he has a misbehaving app? Does he have wifi at his house ? Or is his doing all it's updates at your place? See there are tons of variables that have nothing to do with charging that are simply more likely to be causing the issue you are noticing
autosurgeon said:
Have you looked at his screen timeout? Screen brightness. Or checked to see if he has a misbehaving app? Does he have wifi at his house ? Or is his doing all it's updates at your place? See there are tons of variables that have nothing to do with charging that are simply more likely to be causing the issue you are noticing
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I mean, I wouldn't describe what I'm observing as an 'issue'. I understand where you're coming from though. I have gone to war against errant battery drains in the past. Lollipop/Marshmallow's mobile radio drain is something I surely won't miss. He does have Wifi at his house for app updates and such.
Just for the clarity's sake, we're talking about:
2 identical devices, running the same version of Android and the same ROM, which are connected to the same mobile and wifi networks, in the same physical location - so service quality is not a variable, unless there is a hardware issue. Both devices are [simultaneously] charged to 100%, and then they are unplugged and their screens remain off. Upon checking both devices a little while later, mine is at 94% while his is at 90%. My device is encrypted, rooted, has custom kernel settings relating to the governor, read ahead, and entropy, and runs various GCM social/messaging apps, and has an extensive Tasker setup. His device is untouched. Both devices have been fully drained and recharged at least once in the past 60 days.
I have looked at his battery usage, which I log with 3C Toolbox. There is no excessive drain from any apps, the cell radio, the kernel, etc...
Regardless of what is causing it, the observable evidence is curious.
QuantumFluxx said:
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
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Not saying you are wrong, but the scenario you give is at best circumstantial with the given info. It does not account for other factors such as apps installed, network connectivity, how the phone is being used, etc.
Screen brightness can drastically change how long until you have to recharge. Mine is usually only 1/4 of the way up.
Related
Plain and simple: When the Evo is fully charged, it begins running off its battery until you plug it back in. It DOES NOT trickle charge whatsoever after it reaches 100%. When you're using your Evo on the charger, and it's showing full 100% charge, it is running off the battery, not the AC plug. And then when you unplug it, well, we all know what happens next. The battery meter drops insanely fast to the actual charge of the battery, which could be very low, depending on how long it's been sitting idle at 100% on your charger.
So all those times you've charged your Evo overnight, only to take it to work the next day and be at 80% within an hour? Your Evo was running off its battery for what I'm guessing was most of the night. It takes my Evo about an hour to two hours to fully charge back to 100%. Let's say you put your Evo on the charger at 11PM, it'll reach full charge by 1AM at the latest, and then run off its battery until whenever you take it off the charger in the morning.
Workarounds?
1) Turn your Evo off while it's charging.
2) If you must leave it on for an alarm clock, put it in airplane mode and end all CPU intensive tasks to minimize battery drain.
3) When you wake up, unplug it for 10-20 minutes (still experimenting with this number), and then plug it back in to top it off. Once it reaches 100%, take it off the charger, and go about your day.
Try it out for yourself. When your Evo is 100% charged, take it off the charger immediately, and I highly doubt you will lose the 10%-15% within minutes. Please share your findings.
Er... Point of note, mine does it even if I pull it off the charger right when it turns green.
Post some technical schematic or other type of proof that shows that this circuitry isn't available in the EVO. That will prove beyond a doubt if what your saying is true.
That being said, only a group of the most retarded electrical engineers would design a charging system as you've described. It is INSANELY easy to build Li-Polymer charging circuitry that does the following (and it pretty much has to do these):
1. Detects battery temperature, and disables charging as a protective measure. In an emergency case it should shut off the device it's powering to allow the battery to cool down. This is a design requirement, or else your house burns down as you dump water on a Lithium fire thinking it's going to put it out. If you have a HERO, you can easily test this. Running the wireless tethering, GPS/Navigation, and Music with the screen running heats up the phone a ton. You'll notice the status light blink green once, then red a couple of times. This means that it's plugged in but not charging. Cool the phone down and it turns solid red again (charging).
2. Disable charging cycle when battery reaches a certain voltage. VERY SIMPLE voltage detection circuitry! The designer can of course adjust a gap to have charging turn back on when it dips below a certain voltage. Usually since this circuitry can be made with a decent amount of precision, that "turn back on" voltage ends up being roughly when the battery discharges to maybe 99.5%. That's just a guess, I admit but there's no harm in having the circuit switch on and off, even if it's often.
There are also a few other circuits that prevent the cell from blowing up in your pocket, like a current sensor to prevent an overcurrent. There's also some stuff that prevents you from being able to discharge the cell below it's avalanche voltage. In case you don't know what that is, when a Li-Ion battery discharges to a certain voltage, it avalanches to 0 (quickly falls). If it hits that point, you've pretty much ruined the battery and it will never charge the same again.
Anyway, this is stuff they taught and had design labs on back in college. While I have no actual proof that the phone wasn't designed as the OP describes, I find it highly unlikely. If this is the behavior that the circuitry exhibits, I would find it easier to believe that it's a design flaw, probably because some idiot didn't compile the correct bill of materials.
I haven't got any schematics or any sort of technical information on the subject. All I know is, it works wonders for me. When I take my Evo off the charger in the morning, it literally drops to ~90% within minutes. Once it does that, if I place it back on the charger for ~20 minutes, it charges back to 100% and stays there for 45 minutes to an hour.
I'd urge anybody who is noticing the immediate 10% to 15% drop in battery to give this a shot.
I would turn it off while I'm charging it overnight, but I use it as my alarm clock
Me Too
I am seeing the exact same behavior as the OP. This is really lame. Because of this, most people will end up losing 10% of their battery every day. Pretty lame.
I charge my phone overnight every night. Never noticed a problem and I just checked my battery and its at 88% and has been off the charger for 2.5hours so I'm not seeing the rapid discharge issue some people are seeing.
I don't think so man, I leave my screen on full brightness while it's charging, and if what you said was true it would go dead on the charger.
I think it's more likely the cells haven’t charged equally, so you get a big initial drop.
Grims said:
I don't think so man, I leave my screen on full brightness while it's charging, and if what you said was true it would go dead on the charger.
I think it's more likely the cells haven’t charged equally, so you get a big initial drop.
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I'm beginning to think that once the battery reaches 100% full, it runs off the battery until it reaches some arbitrary percentage. At which point it starts charging until it reaches 100% again, and then continues this cycle.
I'm testing a few other things right now. Part of me is convinced it reports 100% charge when it's actually below that level.
Krynj said:
I haven't got any schematics or any sort of technical information on the subject. All I know is, it works wonders for me. When I take my Evo off the charger in the morning, it literally drops to ~90% within minutes. Once it does that, if I place it back on the charger for ~20 minutes, it charges back to 100% and stays there for 45 minutes to an hour.
I'd urge anybody who is noticing the immediate 10% to 15% drop in battery to give this a shot.
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I'll try this out to see if I can get the same kind of behavior. I guess I honestly haven't looked to see if the phone drops 10-15% after pulling it off.
Krynj said:
I'm beginning to think that once the battery reaches 100% full, it runs off the battery until it reaches some arbitrary percentage. At which point it starts charging until it reaches 100% again, and then continues this cycle.
I'm testing a few other things right now. Part of me is convinced it reports 100% charge when it's actually below that level.
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Click to collapse
This is what should be happening I believe, but I'd be surprised if it was set to such a huge swing like 10-15%
Grims said:
I don't think so man, I leave my screen on full brightness while it's charging, and if what you said was true it would go dead on the charger.
I think it's more likely the cells haven’t charged equally, so you get a big initial drop.
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Click to collapse
This is an interesting theory. I do know that when you have multiple Li-Ion cells in a battery pack, if they discharge unevenly, you have to go off of the lowest charged cell. Again, if a cell were to drop below the avalanche voltage, you'd ruin the pack all together. On the other hand, the circuitry should let ALL cells charge to 100% so it's even again. Maybe they screwed this up, that design isn't so easy! Perhaps it detects one cell as 100% and shuts off the charge. Therefore, one could surmise that if you started with an unevenly charged battery pack, you'd have an immediate decrease in charge to the rating of the lowest charged cell. The good news (maybe) is that this is sometimes implemented with software. That means that HTC could release a bug fix for this, or if we have a savvy dev, they could try to fix it. We just need to prove the theory though.
This is all just a guess, keep that in mind. If I notice something like this with my phone today, maybe I can tear apart the battery and measure the voltage on each cell (if it even has multiple cells). I have a spare, so maybe I'd be up for this. Krynj (or anyone), if you have the HTC Hero, try charging your battery pack with it, see if it exhibits the same behavior on the Hero itself. If it doesn't, then try putting it back into the EVO and see if after a night of charging, it still drops 10-15% after disconnecting it from the AC.
The reason why the battery dies so fast has something to do with the memory card. Charge your phone and take the SD card out and watch it stay at 100% for a long as time. Then do it again with the SD card in and watch it dip down fast.
Apple laptops don't charge unless battery is below 90%. If you plug in the AC and the battery is above 90%, it will just run off AC power but I don't think the battery drains any then.
My battery life has been less than stellar, but I didn't notice it dropping 10-15% instantly off the charger. I did notice that it'd drop about 10% after driving to work with xiialive streaming, which was unusual to me. The battery would start running out after about 9 hours at work. I'd be in the yellow by the time I got home, and the battery would be complaining for a charge in the evening. So that's roughly 12 hours I would be getting out of the phone after normal use.
Since I'm suspecting an issue with the charging circuitry, I just recently tried charging my battery with the Hero. After it was fully charged, I put it back into my EVO last night and haven't charged it since. It's been running 13 hours, and is still nearly full green. The charge is at about 70%. I've been trying to graph the discharge all day too. It only dropped to 87% over night, dropped to 80% when I drove to work (xiialive), and then down to 74% after I spent some time setting up icons and modifying my home screen. This is...hands down a butt ton better than the past week.
I'm not using 4G.
WiFi is off.
3G is on.
GPS is on.
Not running a live wallpaper.
Sync is running at default settings.
Widgets that could be updating constantly:
I have the Clock/Weather HTC widget running.
I have the Dictionary.com "word of the day" widget.
I have the Friendstream Widget running.
Craigslist Craignotifica app is running, set to notify me with search results.
The results are inconclusive though. Yesterday, I wiped and re-flashed DamageControl 3.2.x from scratch (backed up all apps with Ti-Backup, this means Android Market won't be notifying me if there are app updates -grumble-). So, somewhere between re-flashing and also charging my battery with the Hero caused this turn around.
apollooff320 said:
The reason why the battery dies so fast has something to do with the memory card. Charge your phone and take the SD card out and watch it stay at 100% for a long as time. Then do it again with the SD card in and watch it dip down fast.
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Interesting.....Will have to give a try. Will report back later.
I'm waiting for some definitive results with the "use another charging device or battery" method. It seems that the EVO just sucks at recharging the battery since people who have used another phone or a separate charger seem to report better results.
I leave my phone off at night and charge it - when I turn it on in the morning it still drops 5-10% in the first 20 minutes. But during the day it drops REALLY slow, so I still can get about 13-16 hours before 15% easily.
I have manual account sync, 3g only, wifi at home, usually gps is off, auto backlight settings for screen, and I don't run too many apps in the background, I just use them when I need them.
Has anybody found a solution to this? It's really starting to bother me. I've noticed that I don't seem to have the issue if I charge -> recovery -> wipe battery stats -> reboot. That kind of leads me to believe that something is inaccurate about the battery stats and the phone instead uses the actual raw value provided by the battery instead of whatever it is that it does with the battery stats.
I can tell you this, I bought two of the cheap battery chargers off of ebay and I have two OEM evo batteries. I don't even plug my phone in anymore. I get an hour of standby at 100% from those chargers and it falls instantly when charging from the phone. I just run them down then swap them out. I couldn't be happier and they are only like 10 bucks each with 2 batteries each.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
jnewkirk10 said:
I can tell you this, I bought two of the cheap battery chargers off of ebay and I have two OEM evo batteries. I don't even plug my phone in anymore. I get an hour of standby at 100% from those chargers and it falls instantly when charging from the phone. I just run them down then swap them out. I couldn't be happier and they are only like 10 bucks each with 2 batteries each.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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can you post a link or ebay or where ever u bought it from?
Try this I'm doing it from the phone
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250641711190&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1991wt_913
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
apollooff320 said:
The reason why the battery dies so fast has something to do with the memory card. Charge your phone and take the SD card out and watch it stay at 100% for a long as time. Then do it again with the SD card in and watch it dip down fast.
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Click to collapse
If you have apps on your sd card that are running then yes that could be the case. SD cards need power to work but I dont know how much they draw..
Prior to getting the Galaxy S, after I read what Samsung were saying in the manual of not to overcharge, I investigated the reasons and wrote in various topics on the battery and the differences between Li-Ion & Li-Pol battery types.
At that point with all the evidence found it made sense to believe that what Samsung were saying in not to overcharge was accurate.
Basically, at that time it was believed the phone used a Li-Pol, Li-Pol batteries are different in that they are 'wet cell' as opposed to Li-Ion which are 'dry cell' charged.
Li-Pol can be manufactured much thinner but can not be manufactured in different shapes.
This is to allow the wet cells whilst under charge which become hot to move around the battery freely. If a Li-Pol was manufactured in different shapes like Li-Ion it would create a 'hot-spot' in an area where the wet cell could not move fluidly around the remainder of the battery.
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
Anyway, moving on to the present.......
After now getting the phone and doing a bit of testing I have found the overcharging issue NOT to be an issue.
When you commence a charge on the phone the icon changes to a charge state.
However, once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
So to all of us who have been worried about overcharging, my personal advise is to NOT worry and charge as and when you feel the need.
Hope this helps.
Beards
Thanks for clear up, I was always been scared while charging that it may blow up.
Nice find!
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
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When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
I have just charged mine from bone empty to full. A notification came up stating that the battery was full and to disconnect the charger. Although the battery monitor app says it is not charging and the normal battery meter has gone solid.
I agree that it seems to stop the charging circuit. Although I thought we were getting LiPo not li ion for these as well it's definitely li ion though.
Morbo66 said:
When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
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Take the battery out and turn it over. Now read the battery type and you will see it says Li-Ion.
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
hkfriends said:
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
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Click to collapse
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
Beards said:
...once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
Beards said:
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
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Click to collapse
AFAIK, the reason to fully deplete the battery is to properly calibrate the % remaining in your battery. Running your battery down to empty causes more stress to the phone than running it down 50%. I happened to get a free battery with my device, but I would've bought a spare if I didn't get a free one, so I can easily go 3-5 days depending on usage, during this time I have my house and work to do charges. However, let's say I were to be expecting to have less frequent charges, such as taking a vacation, prior to that I would be fully depleting the battery to 0% to calibrate because then the battery level is more important to me. The trade off of long-term life vs short term accuracy is a very easy decision for me to make due to my situation.
In older batteries you had to "use the cells or lose them" situation where it was better, to at least occasionally, completely run down the device rather than doing partial cycles. These days, charging @ 50% 2 times is equivalent to 1 cycle of 100% with less long-term "stress" to the battery.
borchgrevink said:
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
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Same for me.
The reason it tells you to unplug the charger when done charging has nothing to do with battery. It is to save power. Battery chargers still draw some power just because they are plugged in. And in these green times it is ofcourse very popular to have warnings everywhere so you can claim to a green company. And every lithium ion and polymer battery contains electronics designed to protect them from abuse. Including over charging. So that will never be a problem on any phone unless you have a defective battery.
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
Joans said:
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
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I think I read that the newest, or maybe just a random middle since something has superseded it, firmware fixed this.
interesting topic thx Beards for sharing your insights.
Overcharging - read the manual
Guys, if you will read the manual that came with your SGS, it says there that "DO NOT OVERCHARGE YOUR BATTERY FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS". It obviously means that the battery can be overcharged for more than a day as long as it is not more than 2 weeks ( I doubt if someone will be able to do that). So that confirms also that we can recharge anytime and not necessarily have it done to zero before charging. Hope this helps also
i've pretty much quit worrying about the overcharge after the first month of usage
i was following the auto pop up message, just because i wanted to conserve battery
but having 3 spare battery made me though it's futile
and it was extreme annoying to wakeup in the middle of the night, just to unplug it
it was awesome the day i found that patch on the forum to disable the annoying pop up alert that your battery is full.
now i can sleep the whole night without the alert coming online, and rest at ease knowing if the phone actually alerts me, it'll be a phone call or something important, not some annoying "unplug me plz!" message
I have read conflicting articles on increasing the battery life of Lithium-ion batteries (the ones used in Nexus 10). Most of the Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan of 300-400 charge/discharge cycles. From my understanding, this means that it is bad to fully discharge the batteries and then recharge them as it reduces from the above mentioned lifespan and it is better to top-off the battery often as possible.
In fact there was an article that I read on Cnet specifically for the iPad (I'm not allowed to post outside links for some reason, google: "ipad keep plugged in" and the first article in the search result) , where they recommend to keep the iPad plugged-in whenever possible to increase the battery life.
I use my Nexus 10 a lot at house. So, Is it better to keep it plugged-in all that time?
roshanpius said:
I have read conflicting articles on increasing the battery life of Lithium-ion batteries (the ones used in Nexus 10). Most of the Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan of 300-400 charge/discharge cycles. From my understanding, this means that it is bad to fully discharge the batteries and then recharge them as it reduces from the above mentioned lifespan and it is better to top-off the battery often as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is correct.
In fact there was an article that I read on Cnet specifically for the iPad (I'm not allowed to post outside links for some reason, google: "ipad keep plugged in" and the first article in the search result) , where they recommend to keep the iPad plugged-in whenever possible to increase the battery life.
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Click to collapse
The life span of LiIon/LiPoly batteries is also reduced when the battery is at or near 100% for a prolonged time. Don't think too much about it, just use the N10 and recharge it often. I usually try to plug it back in around the 70% mark.
It's also quite easy to open up the tablet, you only need a screwdriver and a plastic prying tool and then you can change the battery yourself, if it ever should become necessary (unlikely, unless you plan to use it for ~5 years).
> http://www.powerbookmedic.com/wordpress/2012/11/16/google-nexus-10-take-apart-first-look
i don't care about it... i leave it plugged whenever i can
chances are, those who take "good care" of their battery may end up with 10% more life in 2 years.... and frankly, i couldn't care less about that
not worth the hassle of worrying about batteries anymore
Best practice actually is to drain to 40% and charge up to 80%. Dropping to 90% and charging back up to 100% a bunch is still bad for your battery, as is leaving it plugged in over night when it reached 100% long before you wake up.
EniGmA1987 said:
Best practice actually is to drain to 40% and charge up to 80%. Dropping to 90% and charging back up to 100% a bunch is still bad for your battery, as is leaving it plugged in over night when it reached 100% long before you wake up.
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Click to collapse
It stops charging upon reaching 100%.
Its hard to follow those instructions when your out 24 hours a day, or maybe you just want to use your tablet
Don't worry about doing extra stuff.. like the user said I could careless..
Just don't let your device die, charge it once it hit like 15%..
Saying charge your device once it at 70% is like only driving your car for 5miles and putting it back in the garage and walk the rest of the way..
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
YoungAceAtlanta said:
Saying charge your device once it at 70% is like only driving your car for 5miles and putting it back in the garage and walk the rest of the way..
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Click to collapse
I didn't say you have to do that. If it's possible I recharge early, if not I just use it anyway.
Doesn't really matter too much since the battery can be exchanged rather easily if it ever comes to that.
BoneXDA said:
It stops charging upon reaching 100%.
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Click to collapse
Yes, and then it drains a bit and goes back to charging, over and over the rest of the night.
I've read that Li-ion batteries don't like "deep cycles", that is, fully dischanging then fully charging, because this shortens the battery's life. Also that it's not good to have it at 100% for a prolonged time. So it would be best to always have the device partially charged, plugging it if below 50% and unplugging at 90%. When the battery reaches 90% some phones even notify you that "the battery is full, and you can disconnect from charger"
Source: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
This is a topic that I don't think has been covered here yet, but is very important. Especially because we cannot replace our batteries.
I'm interested in finding out the best way to prolong the life of our batteries. In other words, I want it to continue holding a charge as close to specs as possible.
I am NOT talking about extending the use we get out of one full charge.
Upon googling, I found these two useful articles:
http://lifehacker.com/5875162
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From reading those, this is what I gather:
We should not leave our devices plugged in at 100%
Best practice would be to use phone until 50% then charge
Charging to 100% actually causes the battery stress. Charging to 90% or so is better.
I think these few facts are right, since my Thinkpad has a function that stops charging at 90% and doesnt start charging again until below 60% (or whatever values you choose).
What I'm not sure about, is what has HTC done to help prolong battery health?
Does our phone automatically switch to using power straight from the charger at 100% instead of charging and draining the battery simultaneously?
Does any phone do that?
Battery health is likely the reason why our phones charge so slowly. Slow charging = less stress = better battery health.
I've also emailed HTC to see if they have any tips. Their manual contain no tips.
UPDATE:
Okay, so HTC got back to me.. amazingly quick. lol
Its a long email, which I wont paste here, but the one important part is this:
It is better to unplugged your phone from the wall once the battery reach 100% and once the battery indicates that the battery percentage is about 15% you should plug the phone to the wall charger.
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Click to collapse
That is what the guy said, word for word. The rest of the email diverges and talks about general battery saving tips.
So what the HTC rep says seems to fall in line with the three points I got from the articles I read.
Only difference being HTC recommends going all the way down to 15% before charging.. Hmm
Honestly, considering most of us get a new phone after a year or so, we're not going to see any huge hits in battery performance even if we don't follow these "rules". Not to mention I'm REALLY not going to wake up in the middle of the night to unplug my phone just so it doesn't stay at 100% all night. Just charge the battery in whatever way's the most convenient.
Useful post thanks for sharing.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
jason27131 said:
Honestly, considering most of us get a new phone after a year or so, we're not going to see any huge hits in battery performance even if we don't follow these "rules". Not to mention I'm REALLY not going to wake up in the middle of the night to unplug my phone just so it doesn't stay at 100% all night. Just charge the battery in whatever way's the most convenient.
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Click to collapse
You might be right. But I bet there are a few people out there who are on 2-year contracts or just don't think they'll give up their HTC One so easily.
I personally love the design of the device and want it to last as long as possible.
I haven't felt this way about a phone since my Xperia X1, which I did eventually give up because I already replaced the housing twice, the mainboard was starting to have issues, and Windows Mobile 6 was just **** lol.
Anyway, under normal use these batteries should be fine for a bit. But unintentional abuse can wear them down faster than you think. At least thats what I get from these articles. And thats been my experience in the past with laptops and cellphones.
I too probably wont be waking up at night to unplug my phone or buying a timer to automatically stop charging my phone. But when I can adhere to these guidelines, I'll try my best to.
------
jonny68, no problem, glad this is useful.
These batteries have electronics to protect them, you wont be doing the battery any damage how you use it other than using your phone a lot and putting a lot of cycles through it. They never let you drain your battery 100% and they never let your charge 100%, it just shows 0-100% for the ease of the consumer. You cannot over charge your phone, if you could there would be a lot of issues out there.
Fact is just use your phone how you use it.
Terrorantula said:
These batteries have electronics to protect them, you wont be doing the battery any damage how you use it other than using your phone a lot and putting a lot of cycles through it. They never let you drain your battery 100% and they never let your charge 100%, it just shows 0-100% for the ease of the consumer. You cannot over charge your phone, if you could there would be a lot of issues out there.
Fact is just use your phone how you use it.
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Click to collapse
But that isnt entirely true.
Yes, our batteries now have mechanisms to stop overcharge and deep discharge.
But these same mechanisms do not provide longevity. Instead, our batteries are geared more towards providing the most use per charge without damage.
It is done this way for obvious reasons. It also means we have a choice about whether or not we want to sacrifice a small bit of convenience or capacity now, for a better battery later in time.
For example, this chart from the second article I linked shows that if you charge only to 90%, your battery can go through double the charge/discharge cycles before dropping to 70% health as compared to charging all the way to 100%
Quote from the article:
"Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not in use?” many ask. Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because once the lithium-ion battery is full the charger discontinues charge and only engages when the battery voltage drops. Most users do not remove the AC power and I like to believe that this practice is safe.
Like i said, this is all pointless, because 100% of us charge our phones overnight, and 0% of us are willing to wake up 3 hours into our sleep to unplug it at 90% or 100%.
jason27131 said:
Those talks about voltages, not charge level btw.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_charge
Reading voltages is one of many methods of determining how much charge is left within a battery. Hence the other column in that table.
You cant just stick a meter on a battery and read how many mAHs are left.
EDIT:
jason27131 said:
Quote from the article:
"Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not in use?” many ask. Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because once the lithium-ion battery is full the charger discontinues charge and only engages when the battery voltage drops. Most users do not remove the AC power and I like to believe that this practice is safe.
Like i said, this is all pointless, because 100% of us charge our phones overnight, and 0% of us are willing to wake up 3 hours into our sleep to unplug it at 90% or 100%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, and that is true for some laptops as some of them do tend to have more sophisticated battery management software/hardware. I mentioned my own Thinkpad and its functions in this OP.
I was curious as to if our phones do the same thing as laptops; disengage the battery at 100% charge and run off AC only. But it does not, as per HTC's reply suggesting phones should be unplugged once at 100%.
And for your other point, I already addressed that. I'm not saying this is essential or that everyone should follow these guidelines. But to some people this does matter, and this post is for them.
As for myself, I'll use yesterday as an example.
I got home from work at around 6:30PM, my phone was down to 30-40%, so I plugged it in.
Before I went to bed, the phone had hit 93%, so I unplugged it and left it there with wifi on.
I wake up, its lost like 3-5%, no big deal.
Around lunch time its dropped to 30% at work, so I plugged it in.
It reached 89% a few minutes ago, so I unplugged it.
So when its convenient for me to do so, I follow these guidelines. If I know I have a long day ahead with no access to a charger, or if I need to charge overnight, then so be it, I'll let it sit at 100% until I have to leave.
Technically speaking this is all correct and a guideline to try to follow. That's all. If it's impossible to do, the phone will be okay. That being said, I am of the belief that if there is a better way to do something, we should at least try to do that. I for one love this device and may never sell it. This is one of those iconic builds that I wonder how much more of its class we will see. Even right now as the music pours out of these front speakers, my love for it grows.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. And this little tidbit:
Every 100mv less than full charge you apply, will double the lifespan of the battery. So, a rough approximation,
Charge the phone to 100% (4.3v) , discharge to about 15% You'll get roughly 250-500 cycles.
Charge to 90% (4.2v) down to 15, you'll get 500-1000 cycles.
80% (4.1) 1000-2000 cycles.
Cycle count will increase by avoiding deeper discharges...
In a perfect world, you could potentially get 2000-3000 cycles by
1. Charging to 80% or ~ 4.1v
2. Avoiding discharge below 30% or ~ 3.6v
3. Avoid extreme temperature changes and prolonged exposure to temperatures above 45c
Most of this comes from personal experience and much research. Check out battery university if you get some time.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
By last do you mean until the battery reaches 70% maximum capacity? Honestly, at 1000 cycles, thats already good enough since thats 3 years worth of charging at roughly 1 cycle a day. I doubt I will keep this phone past 2 years.
m0nz said:
Technically speaking this is all correct and a guideline to try to follow. That's all. If it's impossible to do, the phone will be okay. That being said, I am of the belief that if there is a better way to do something, we should at least try to do that. I for one love this device and may never sell it. This is one of those iconic builds that I wonder how much more of its class we will see. Even right now as the music pours out of these front speakers, my love for it grows.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly how I feel, and the reason why I started the thread :victory:
Your figures fall close to the ones in the articles, so it sounds bout right.
Im curious though, does unplugging/replugging have any effect on the charge/discharge cycle?
For example, if i'm charging my phone but i need it for something, I unplug it, use it, and plug it back in.
That shouldn't have any effect am I right?
You have to define what you mean when you talk about how long a battery "lasts".
We're specifically talking about deterioration in capacity over time.
The battery will "last" for 100,000 cycles in the sense that you will still be able to charge it and it will still be able to power a device on its own for a period of time. The question is how short does that period of time get before you say "this battery isn't useful anymore"
This came up in another thread and the threshold discussed there was 80% of original capacity. Apparently HTC rates the One's battery "lifetime" as 500-700 charge cycles until the battery capacity drops to 80% of its original level. (You also have to define charge cycle: charging from 0-100 or anything that adds up to that, such as charging from 40 to 90 on one day followed by charging from 40 to 90 on another day - counts as one "cycle".)
So this battery could "last" - in the sense that it will still have 80% of its useful capacity - for 3000 cycles if you follow some of the more conservative approaches above.
I don't know how typical my behavior is, my last three phones were bought via two year contracts, each phone was replaced after about one year, when the next-generation model appealed to me.
Don't imagine too many buyers of "flagship" devices keep their phone for over two years.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
NxNW said:
You have to define what you mean when you talk about how long a battery "lasts".
We're specifically talking about deterioration in capacity over time.
The battery will "last" for 100,000 cycles in the sense that you will still be able to charge it and it will still be able to power a device on its own for a period of time. The question is how short does that period of time get before you say "this battery isn't useful anymore"
This came up in another thread and the threshold discussed there was 80% of original capacity. Apparently HTC rates the One's battery "lifetime" as 500-700 charge cycles until the battery capacity drops to 80% of its original level. (You also have to define charge cycle: charging from 0-100 or anything that adds up to that, such as charging from 40 to 90 on one day followed by charging from 40 to 90 on another day - counts as one "cycle".)
So this battery could "last" - in the sense that it will still have 80% of its useful capacity - for 3000 cycles if you follow some of the more conservative approaches above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm, yea I should update my OP with that info. The articles I referenced seem to define a battery's lifetime as the number of cycles it can go through before hitting 70% of original max capacity.
paul_59 said:
I don't know how typical my behavior is, my last three phones were bought via two year contracts, each phone was replaced after about one year, when the next-generation model appealed to me.
Don't imagine too many buyers of "flagship" devices keep their phone for over two years.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure, but in the past I've always seemed to kill my phone's batteries before I replaced the phone itself lol.
If I look back now, that was probably because I always drained to 0% and let my phone stay plugged in at 100%. So basically I was always doing the worst thing possible, short of literally cooking my battery >.>
Nippero said:
Hm, yea I should update my OP with that info. The articles I referenced seem to define a battery's lifetime as the number of cycles it can go through before hitting 70% of original max capacity.
Not sure, but in the past I've always seemed to kill my phone's batteries before I replaced the phone itself lol.
If I look back now, that was probably because I always drained to 0% and let my phone stay plugged in at 100%. So basically I was always doing the worst thing possible, short of literally cooking my battery >.>
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Click to collapse
I really don't think that's it. I have done that with EVERY phone i've had, GS3, Nexus, etc. After a year i didn't see any major battery difference, and I plug it in at least once a day, sometimes 2 times.
jason27131 said:
I really don't think that's it. I have done that with EVERY phone i've had, GS3, Nexus, etc. After a year i didn't see any major battery difference, and I plug it in at least once a day, sometimes 2 times.
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Click to collapse
The difference may be how much we use our phones then, because with my last phones I typically used my phone quite frequently at work since many websites are blocked. Including open source code sites which actually help me with my job... stupid corporate proxy.
Anyway, I used to leave my G2 and Photon Q plugged in all day at work and at night. So thats 16hrs of being plugged in per day... Probably wasnt good for them.
But hey, if you're right and I'm wrong, I'll be even happier cause that means my battery will be fine no matter what I do lol.
However, battery deterioration isn't a myth, and it does happen. Only question is, how much does it happen.
Nippero said:
The difference may be how much we use our phones then, because with my last phones I typically used my phone quite frequently at work since many websites are blocked. Including open source code sites which actually help me with my job... stupid corporate proxy.
Anyway, I used to leave my G2 and Photon Q plugged in all day at work and at night. So thats 16hrs of being plugged in per day... Probably wasnt good for them.
But hey, if you're right and I'm wrong, I'll be even happier cause that means my battery will be fine no matter what I do lol.
However, battery deterioration isn't a myth, and it does happen. Only question is, how much does it happen.
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Click to collapse
Ya i tend to just leave it overnight for about 7 to 8 hours. Sometimes during the day i might plug it in for an hour or so to grab some juice on my s3, something i haven't had to do on my One which is awesome (get about 2 days worth). Battery deterioration definitely does happen, but hey, if I have enough juice at the end of a year to still last me a day, I'm happy
I'm always on a 2 yr contract, no need to really worry about this, but good info none the less.
dont worry op .. ill put my battery in the many " to be taken care off" list.
ill make sure its in the list.
somewhere
If the ONe is anything like the HoX, the charger stops charging at 100%, then lets it drop to 95% before restarting trickle charge. However, the 95% battery state isn't immediately shown on screen, so many people use their phone then see a whole 5% jump downwards almost immediately. I haven't paid much attention to the HO yet, so I can't comment
Would there be a problem with charging the Z2 overnight knowing that is will reach 100% before you wake up, lets say 2-4 hours before you wake up? I have not experienced any over heating with the phone yet but I am worried that it will happen while its charging overnight without me knowing.
I heard that the new batteries stop charging when they reach a 100% is this true?
Yes it will stop charging when it reaches 100%. It's been like that for a while, even my S3 got that.
Leaving it overnight will be no problem (Well should be no problem, I don't have the phone yet)
90 or more % of people do this in that way. There is absolutely no risk. When 100% will be reached, charging will be stopped and phone will use battery power. Eventually after couple hours charger will refill battery ex from 99 to 100%.
Alright that's good to know. my phone is charging right now but its quite cold. Guess the over heating problem was in some devices only.
I thought the overheating problem only occured when recording in 4K. I haven't had any issues with heat except when recording long sessions.
Sent from my D6503
I also did not hear about overheating during charging over the night...
You can leave it on and not worry about heat, but here's the thing: the phone obviously stops charging at 100%, but once it stopped, the phone starts discharging, then it recharges to 100% again, discharges, recharges and this goes on until you pull it off. So while you can safely leave it on cause nothing dangerous will happen to you or the phone, know that it will be in a charging loop which can't be good for the battery.
Ideal thing would be the phone stopping charging altogether at 100%, and not recharging until hitting like 95%. Right now, when it notices the tiniest drop, it will recharge.
^ True. I think it's really NOT good for battery to be charged overnight.
I've done this with all my smartphones. My s3 have charged almost every night for two years. It still lasts a day. I don't think it harms charging it over night.
Sent fra min GT-I9300 via Tapatalk
nikola1970 said:
^ True. I think it's really NOT good for battery to be charged overnight.
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Click to collapse
So please give us a better, convenient way.
cedropol said:
So please give us a better, convenient way.
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Click to collapse
Technology expert "Eric Limer" explaining about overnight charging and quoting the "Battery University" findings....
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/smar...your-mobile-if-you-want-to-boost-battery-life
I have been recharging my phones overnight without one single issue since my first cell twenty years ago to present.
Publicglutton said:
Technology expert "Eric Limer" explaining about overnight charging and quoting the "Battery University" findings....
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/smar...your-mobile-if-you-want-to-boost-battery-life
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really i've heard this for the first time... besides every person has his own say about batteries... I say no matter how you charge the phone, todays batteries are made to last...well atleast a year till you are eligible for an upgrade
I have been charging my Z1 overnight for 7 months now, battery is excellent today, just like when I bought it
Sent from my Xperia Z1
I can quite believe that that expert knows what he is talking about, however, surely the person that has designed the battery charging circuit will be in the best position to understand the workings of the battery?
Why would they design something that is harmful to the battery in normal use?
stunno said:
I can quite believe that that expert knows what he is talking about, however, surely the person that has designed the battery charging circuit will be in the best position to understand the workings of the battery?
Why would they design something that is harmful to the battery in normal use?
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Click to collapse
As an electrical engineer I'd like to point out that having the battery charged is the best you can do if you're using an lithium-ion battery. I read a lot of nonsense in the Internet regarding this matter. Only if you'd like to keep the battery unused for a long time it's good practice to keep it at ~50% (that's why the manufacturers do not charge the battery to 100% when it comes out of the factory).
But you don't have to believe me, it's your battery. Who cares?
rickaysen said:
I have been recharging my phones overnight without one single issue since my first cell twenty years ago to present.
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Yeah, but have you been charging the same phone overnight for 12 years?
BoneXDA said:
Yeah, but have you been charging the same phone overnight for 12 years?
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I keep a phone, on average, about six months.... Ha.
Jackos said:
As an electrical engineer I'd like to point out that having the battery charged is the best you can do if you're using an lithium-ion battery. I read a lot of nonsense in the Internet regarding this matter. Only if you'd like to keep the battery unused for a long time it's good practice to keep it at ~50% (that's why the manufacturers do not charge the battery to 100% when it comes out of the factory).
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I thought they didn't charge it all the way to save energy. I mean how much energy does it take to charge millions of devices.
Xernoxis said:
I thought they didn't charge it all the way to save energy. I mean how much energy does it take to charge millions of devices.
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That's a myth. The cost is mariginal if you take into account how much energy the whole manufacturing process does consume.