This is a topic that I don't think has been covered here yet, but is very important. Especially because we cannot replace our batteries.
I'm interested in finding out the best way to prolong the life of our batteries. In other words, I want it to continue holding a charge as close to specs as possible.
I am NOT talking about extending the use we get out of one full charge.
Upon googling, I found these two useful articles:
http://lifehacker.com/5875162
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From reading those, this is what I gather:
We should not leave our devices plugged in at 100%
Best practice would be to use phone until 50% then charge
Charging to 100% actually causes the battery stress. Charging to 90% or so is better.
I think these few facts are right, since my Thinkpad has a function that stops charging at 90% and doesnt start charging again until below 60% (or whatever values you choose).
What I'm not sure about, is what has HTC done to help prolong battery health?
Does our phone automatically switch to using power straight from the charger at 100% instead of charging and draining the battery simultaneously?
Does any phone do that?
Battery health is likely the reason why our phones charge so slowly. Slow charging = less stress = better battery health.
I've also emailed HTC to see if they have any tips. Their manual contain no tips.
UPDATE:
Okay, so HTC got back to me.. amazingly quick. lol
Its a long email, which I wont paste here, but the one important part is this:
It is better to unplugged your phone from the wall once the battery reach 100% and once the battery indicates that the battery percentage is about 15% you should plug the phone to the wall charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what the guy said, word for word. The rest of the email diverges and talks about general battery saving tips.
So what the HTC rep says seems to fall in line with the three points I got from the articles I read.
Only difference being HTC recommends going all the way down to 15% before charging.. Hmm
Honestly, considering most of us get a new phone after a year or so, we're not going to see any huge hits in battery performance even if we don't follow these "rules". Not to mention I'm REALLY not going to wake up in the middle of the night to unplug my phone just so it doesn't stay at 100% all night. Just charge the battery in whatever way's the most convenient.
Useful post thanks for sharing.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
jason27131 said:
Honestly, considering most of us get a new phone after a year or so, we're not going to see any huge hits in battery performance even if we don't follow these "rules". Not to mention I'm REALLY not going to wake up in the middle of the night to unplug my phone just so it doesn't stay at 100% all night. Just charge the battery in whatever way's the most convenient.
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Click to collapse
You might be right. But I bet there are a few people out there who are on 2-year contracts or just don't think they'll give up their HTC One so easily.
I personally love the design of the device and want it to last as long as possible.
I haven't felt this way about a phone since my Xperia X1, which I did eventually give up because I already replaced the housing twice, the mainboard was starting to have issues, and Windows Mobile 6 was just **** lol.
Anyway, under normal use these batteries should be fine for a bit. But unintentional abuse can wear them down faster than you think. At least thats what I get from these articles. And thats been my experience in the past with laptops and cellphones.
I too probably wont be waking up at night to unplug my phone or buying a timer to automatically stop charging my phone. But when I can adhere to these guidelines, I'll try my best to.
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jonny68, no problem, glad this is useful.
These batteries have electronics to protect them, you wont be doing the battery any damage how you use it other than using your phone a lot and putting a lot of cycles through it. They never let you drain your battery 100% and they never let your charge 100%, it just shows 0-100% for the ease of the consumer. You cannot over charge your phone, if you could there would be a lot of issues out there.
Fact is just use your phone how you use it.
Terrorantula said:
These batteries have electronics to protect them, you wont be doing the battery any damage how you use it other than using your phone a lot and putting a lot of cycles through it. They never let you drain your battery 100% and they never let your charge 100%, it just shows 0-100% for the ease of the consumer. You cannot over charge your phone, if you could there would be a lot of issues out there.
Fact is just use your phone how you use it.
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Click to collapse
But that isnt entirely true.
Yes, our batteries now have mechanisms to stop overcharge and deep discharge.
But these same mechanisms do not provide longevity. Instead, our batteries are geared more towards providing the most use per charge without damage.
It is done this way for obvious reasons. It also means we have a choice about whether or not we want to sacrifice a small bit of convenience or capacity now, for a better battery later in time.
For example, this chart from the second article I linked shows that if you charge only to 90%, your battery can go through double the charge/discharge cycles before dropping to 70% health as compared to charging all the way to 100%
Quote from the article:
"Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not in use?” many ask. Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because once the lithium-ion battery is full the charger discontinues charge and only engages when the battery voltage drops. Most users do not remove the AC power and I like to believe that this practice is safe.
Like i said, this is all pointless, because 100% of us charge our phones overnight, and 0% of us are willing to wake up 3 hours into our sleep to unplug it at 90% or 100%.
jason27131 said:
Those talks about voltages, not charge level btw.
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Click to collapse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_charge
Reading voltages is one of many methods of determining how much charge is left within a battery. Hence the other column in that table.
You cant just stick a meter on a battery and read how many mAHs are left.
EDIT:
jason27131 said:
Quote from the article:
"Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not in use?” many ask. Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because once the lithium-ion battery is full the charger discontinues charge and only engages when the battery voltage drops. Most users do not remove the AC power and I like to believe that this practice is safe.
Like i said, this is all pointless, because 100% of us charge our phones overnight, and 0% of us are willing to wake up 3 hours into our sleep to unplug it at 90% or 100%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, and that is true for some laptops as some of them do tend to have more sophisticated battery management software/hardware. I mentioned my own Thinkpad and its functions in this OP.
I was curious as to if our phones do the same thing as laptops; disengage the battery at 100% charge and run off AC only. But it does not, as per HTC's reply suggesting phones should be unplugged once at 100%.
And for your other point, I already addressed that. I'm not saying this is essential or that everyone should follow these guidelines. But to some people this does matter, and this post is for them.
As for myself, I'll use yesterday as an example.
I got home from work at around 6:30PM, my phone was down to 30-40%, so I plugged it in.
Before I went to bed, the phone had hit 93%, so I unplugged it and left it there with wifi on.
I wake up, its lost like 3-5%, no big deal.
Around lunch time its dropped to 30% at work, so I plugged it in.
It reached 89% a few minutes ago, so I unplugged it.
So when its convenient for me to do so, I follow these guidelines. If I know I have a long day ahead with no access to a charger, or if I need to charge overnight, then so be it, I'll let it sit at 100% until I have to leave.
Technically speaking this is all correct and a guideline to try to follow. That's all. If it's impossible to do, the phone will be okay. That being said, I am of the belief that if there is a better way to do something, we should at least try to do that. I for one love this device and may never sell it. This is one of those iconic builds that I wonder how much more of its class we will see. Even right now as the music pours out of these front speakers, my love for it grows.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. And this little tidbit:
Every 100mv less than full charge you apply, will double the lifespan of the battery. So, a rough approximation,
Charge the phone to 100% (4.3v) , discharge to about 15% You'll get roughly 250-500 cycles.
Charge to 90% (4.2v) down to 15, you'll get 500-1000 cycles.
80% (4.1) 1000-2000 cycles.
Cycle count will increase by avoiding deeper discharges...
In a perfect world, you could potentially get 2000-3000 cycles by
1. Charging to 80% or ~ 4.1v
2. Avoiding discharge below 30% or ~ 3.6v
3. Avoid extreme temperature changes and prolonged exposure to temperatures above 45c
Most of this comes from personal experience and much research. Check out battery university if you get some time.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
By last do you mean until the battery reaches 70% maximum capacity? Honestly, at 1000 cycles, thats already good enough since thats 3 years worth of charging at roughly 1 cycle a day. I doubt I will keep this phone past 2 years.
m0nz said:
Technically speaking this is all correct and a guideline to try to follow. That's all. If it's impossible to do, the phone will be okay. That being said, I am of the belief that if there is a better way to do something, we should at least try to do that. I for one love this device and may never sell it. This is one of those iconic builds that I wonder how much more of its class we will see. Even right now as the music pours out of these front speakers, my love for it grows.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly how I feel, and the reason why I started the thread :victory:
Your figures fall close to the ones in the articles, so it sounds bout right.
Im curious though, does unplugging/replugging have any effect on the charge/discharge cycle?
For example, if i'm charging my phone but i need it for something, I unplug it, use it, and plug it back in.
That shouldn't have any effect am I right?
You have to define what you mean when you talk about how long a battery "lasts".
We're specifically talking about deterioration in capacity over time.
The battery will "last" for 100,000 cycles in the sense that you will still be able to charge it and it will still be able to power a device on its own for a period of time. The question is how short does that period of time get before you say "this battery isn't useful anymore"
This came up in another thread and the threshold discussed there was 80% of original capacity. Apparently HTC rates the One's battery "lifetime" as 500-700 charge cycles until the battery capacity drops to 80% of its original level. (You also have to define charge cycle: charging from 0-100 or anything that adds up to that, such as charging from 40 to 90 on one day followed by charging from 40 to 90 on another day - counts as one "cycle".)
So this battery could "last" - in the sense that it will still have 80% of its useful capacity - for 3000 cycles if you follow some of the more conservative approaches above.
I don't know how typical my behavior is, my last three phones were bought via two year contracts, each phone was replaced after about one year, when the next-generation model appealed to me.
Don't imagine too many buyers of "flagship" devices keep their phone for over two years.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
NxNW said:
You have to define what you mean when you talk about how long a battery "lasts".
We're specifically talking about deterioration in capacity over time.
The battery will "last" for 100,000 cycles in the sense that you will still be able to charge it and it will still be able to power a device on its own for a period of time. The question is how short does that period of time get before you say "this battery isn't useful anymore"
This came up in another thread and the threshold discussed there was 80% of original capacity. Apparently HTC rates the One's battery "lifetime" as 500-700 charge cycles until the battery capacity drops to 80% of its original level. (You also have to define charge cycle: charging from 0-100 or anything that adds up to that, such as charging from 40 to 90 on one day followed by charging from 40 to 90 on another day - counts as one "cycle".)
So this battery could "last" - in the sense that it will still have 80% of its useful capacity - for 3000 cycles if you follow some of the more conservative approaches above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm, yea I should update my OP with that info. The articles I referenced seem to define a battery's lifetime as the number of cycles it can go through before hitting 70% of original max capacity.
paul_59 said:
I don't know how typical my behavior is, my last three phones were bought via two year contracts, each phone was replaced after about one year, when the next-generation model appealed to me.
Don't imagine too many buyers of "flagship" devices keep their phone for over two years.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure, but in the past I've always seemed to kill my phone's batteries before I replaced the phone itself lol.
If I look back now, that was probably because I always drained to 0% and let my phone stay plugged in at 100%. So basically I was always doing the worst thing possible, short of literally cooking my battery >.>
Nippero said:
Hm, yea I should update my OP with that info. The articles I referenced seem to define a battery's lifetime as the number of cycles it can go through before hitting 70% of original max capacity.
Not sure, but in the past I've always seemed to kill my phone's batteries before I replaced the phone itself lol.
If I look back now, that was probably because I always drained to 0% and let my phone stay plugged in at 100%. So basically I was always doing the worst thing possible, short of literally cooking my battery >.>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really don't think that's it. I have done that with EVERY phone i've had, GS3, Nexus, etc. After a year i didn't see any major battery difference, and I plug it in at least once a day, sometimes 2 times.
jason27131 said:
I really don't think that's it. I have done that with EVERY phone i've had, GS3, Nexus, etc. After a year i didn't see any major battery difference, and I plug it in at least once a day, sometimes 2 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference may be how much we use our phones then, because with my last phones I typically used my phone quite frequently at work since many websites are blocked. Including open source code sites which actually help me with my job... stupid corporate proxy.
Anyway, I used to leave my G2 and Photon Q plugged in all day at work and at night. So thats 16hrs of being plugged in per day... Probably wasnt good for them.
But hey, if you're right and I'm wrong, I'll be even happier cause that means my battery will be fine no matter what I do lol.
However, battery deterioration isn't a myth, and it does happen. Only question is, how much does it happen.
Nippero said:
The difference may be how much we use our phones then, because with my last phones I typically used my phone quite frequently at work since many websites are blocked. Including open source code sites which actually help me with my job... stupid corporate proxy.
Anyway, I used to leave my G2 and Photon Q plugged in all day at work and at night. So thats 16hrs of being plugged in per day... Probably wasnt good for them.
But hey, if you're right and I'm wrong, I'll be even happier cause that means my battery will be fine no matter what I do lol.
However, battery deterioration isn't a myth, and it does happen. Only question is, how much does it happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya i tend to just leave it overnight for about 7 to 8 hours. Sometimes during the day i might plug it in for an hour or so to grab some juice on my s3, something i haven't had to do on my One which is awesome (get about 2 days worth). Battery deterioration definitely does happen, but hey, if I have enough juice at the end of a year to still last me a day, I'm happy
I'm always on a 2 yr contract, no need to really worry about this, but good info none the less.
dont worry op .. ill put my battery in the many " to be taken care off" list.
ill make sure its in the list.
somewhere
If the ONe is anything like the HoX, the charger stops charging at 100%, then lets it drop to 95% before restarting trickle charge. However, the 95% battery state isn't immediately shown on screen, so many people use their phone then see a whole 5% jump downwards almost immediately. I haven't paid much attention to the HO yet, so I can't comment
Related
Don't charge your phone overnight! When it gets really low, slap it on the charger for a couple hours until you've got 85-90%. Unplug and enjoy fantastic battery life. I have gotten about double normal battery life (approximately 48 hours) using this method. I'm on CM6.1, mind you, so it may be some quirk with the ROM.
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk Pro.
Ive been saying this for a while. I charge up my phone to about 96% and i let it go till almost 5% before i throw it back on the charge. That usually gives me 12 to 18 hours. A lot of people tend to get "battery panic" and throw it on soon as they see it draining a bit. Just leave it alone.
I charge on a wall charger. I have three batteries and change daily. I get 22-24 hours and 5-6 hours of hard use.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Here are my observations:
The Evo seems to have a peculiar way of using external power. Once the battery reaches full-charge the external power apparently gets shut off and the phone operates on battery power until the battery level drops to somewhere around 85-90%. Then the charging current switches back on until the battery level reaches 100% again and the process repeats itself. This differs from more conventional scenarios where the phone actually runs on the external power (rather than the battery) once the battery reaches full charge.
I came to this conclusion while playing with my Evo while it was plugged into the charger. First I noticed that the charging light would cycle from green to amber and back every so often. Then I noticed that the battery level indicator would drop even while the charger was plugged in.
So I started checking my battery level in the morning before I removed the phone from the charging dock and discovered that it was rarely at 100%. I'm convinced that the phone does get charged to 100% when I put it on the charging cradle, but then it sits there running off of the battery until it drops to that magic ~85-90% level and the charging current is reestablished.
But a typical night on the charger isn't enough time for the battery level to drop enough to re-start the charging current and if I come along and just grab the phone, I'm starting my day with a battery which isn't completely charged. In my case, the only time this doesn't happen is if my day ends real late and the next morning starts real early.
Once I had a good idea of what was going on, coming up with a work-around was simple: One of the first things I do when I get up in the morning is look at the charging indicator on the phone. If it's amber I do nothing because the phone is already in charging mode. If it's green I remove the phone from the cradle for a moment and put it right back on. Most of the time the indicator will switch from green to amber when I do that, but if it doesn't I'll go online and read the news or something for a few minutes before I put the phone back on the cradle.
Either way, the phone will then charge for 30 minutes or less before the indicator goes green again. By then I'm done with my morning routine and ready to face the day, and when I grab the phone it's fully charged.
My Evo is out-of-the-box stock (for now). It's a hardware version 0003 and has firmware v. 3.29.651.5. I typically leave my Bluetooth turned on all the time, but I leave 4G, WIFI, and the GPS turned off unless I need 'em. My typical daily routine involves several phone calls, some email downloads and uploads, some incidental web browsing, and some geocaching if a new cache is published within a few miles. As long as I stick with that typical routine, my battery is always in the 40-50% range when I put the phone back into the cradle for the night. Of course if I use the phone more it discharges the battery more, but I'm set up to charge it at home, at work, and in the car.
Now despite everything I've posted here, I can't imagine any practical reason to not top off the battery whenever it's convenient. Letting the battery run down before you charge it doesn't have any effect on how long a full charge will run the phone. In fact, it will actually reduce the number of charge-discharge cycles that your battery can provide before it starts losing capacity. I don't want to type it all again, but if you're interested you can CLICK HERE if you'd like to learn more about LiPo battery characteristics and maintenance.
'Nuff outta me
Pete
the evo charges to 100% then cycles to 90% then back to 100% so that it does not explode from over heating thats why when you grab your phone in the morning it might say 93% rather than 100% i dont mind though cause i dont want my phone to blow up
ThatTmoGuy said:
the evo charges to 100% then cycles to 90% then back to 100% so that it does not explode from over heating thats why when you grab your phone in the morning it might say 93% rather than 100% i dont mind though cause i dont want my phone to blow up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a lot more inclined to believe that it's either an engineering error or a half-baked idea with undesirable consequences. The reason I say that is I've had countless other cell phones and consumer electronics devices which used LiPo batteries for power, yet the Evo is the first device that I'm aware of which operates like that. The rest will stop charging when the batteries are fully charged, but they'll continue to use the external power to run the device as long as it's plugged in.
Pete
PGRtoo said:
I'm a lot more inclined to believe that it's either an engineering error or a half-baked idea with undesirable consequences. The reason I say that is I've had countless other cell phones and consumer electronics devices which used LiPo batteries for power, yet the Evo is the first device that I'm aware of which operates like that. The rest will stop charging when the batteries are fully charged, but they'll continue to use the external power to run the device as long as it's plugged in.
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the purpose is to prolong the battery life so it doesn't charge again every time it drops to 99%.
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk Pro.
TheBiles said:
I think the purpose is to prolong the battery life so it doesn't charge again every time it drops to 99%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently my point is just blowing right past everyone.
For most modern consumer electronics devices the charger can serve at least two functions which are charge the battery and run the device. These functions are remotely related by virtue of the fact that the power comes from the same source, but the functions themselves are typically quite independent of each other. In other words, most devices can run off the charger's power regardless of whether the battery is being charged or not, and when the device is running on the charger, it's not drawing power from the battery.
But it appears that the Evo doesn't do things that way. In essence, it seems like the Evo is hard-wired to the battery and the charger is incapable of independently powering the device when it's not charging the battery. So the battery reaches full charge, the charging circuit shuts off, and the phone starts draining the battery despite the fact that the charger is still connected. Once the battery drains to ~85-90% the charging circuit kicks back on, the battery gets charged back to 100%, and the whole process repeats itself.
Consequently it's a crapshoot whether our Evos will be fully-charged when we take them off of the charger unless we take some additional steps. I can deal with those extra steps, but I can't come up with any practical reason why we should have to. No matter how long I analyze the situation, I can't see any benefit to doing things that way except, perhaps, to save on manufacturing costs. All I can come up with are annoying extra steps and unnecessary battery charge-discharge cycles, and I can't grasp how those benefit anyone.
I see that you and I have carried some of the same phones in the past, TheBiles (Sanyo 8300, Treo 650, Hero) and I don't remember any of those phones coming off a charger with anything less than a full charge unless I interrupted the charge cycle. In fact, I'm convinced that no phone that I've ever carried has had this problem. The Evo is the very first one which is why I suspect some folks at HTC are quietly saying oopsie.
Pete
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Pete, I'm not convinced most smart phones actually power themselves off of the wallcharger when plugged in as you seem to think. I have no real evidence to back this up, though - other than my own observations.
I will say that the EVO's method isn't as isolated as you seem to think. For example, the Palm Pre which I owned for a year previous to the EVO operates in the exact same manner.
The Pre would hit 100%, stop charging, operate on battery power until it dropped to 95%, then charge from 95 back to 100. The EVO, however, drops down to 90 before it starts the charge cycle again. This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
This might be your first phone that operates this way, but it certainly isn't unique to smartphones or HTC.
PGRtoo said:
Apparently my point is just blowing right past everyone.
For most modern consumer electronics devices the charger can serve at least two functions which are charge the battery and run the device. These functions are remotely related by virtue of the fact that the power comes from the same source, but the functions themselves are typically quite independent of each other. In other words, most devices can run off the charger's power regardless of whether the battery is being charged or not, and when the device is running on the charger, it's not drawing power from the battery.
But it appears that the Evo doesn't do things that way. In essence, it seems like the Evo is hard-wired to the battery and the charger is incapable of independently powering the device when it's not charging the battery. So the battery reaches full charge, the charging circuit shuts off, and the phone starts draining the battery despite the fact that the charger is still connected. Once the battery drains to ~85-90% the charging circuit kicks back on, the battery gets charged back to 100%, and the whole process repeats itself.
Consequently it's a crapshoot whether our Evos will be fully-charged when we take them off of the charger unless we take some additional steps. I can deal with those extra steps, but I can't come up with any practical reason why we should have to. No matter how long I analyze the situation, I can't see any benefit to doing things that way except, perhaps, to save on manufacturing costs. All I can come up with are annoying extra steps and unnecessary battery charge-discharge cycles, and I can't grasp how those benefit anyone.
I see that you and I have carried some of the same phones in the past, TheBiles (Sanyo 8300, Treo 650, Hero) and I don't remember any of those phones coming off a charger with anything less than a full charge unless I interrupted the charge cycle. In fact, I'm convinced that no phone that I've ever carried has had this problem. The Evo is the very first one which is why I suspect some folks at HTC are quietly saying oopsie.
Pete
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Click to collapse
I completely agree. This is clearly going on, and I'm surprised more people don't talk about it. I put Cyanogen on mine the day I got it, so I thought that was the issue, but I went back to stock (for a day) and it did the same thing. The light goes off after 90% and it stops charging at 100% until it drops below 90%. I also agree that it doesn't seem to serve a usable purpose, and seems to be a design flaw.
I'm still very happy with the phone, but when battery life is this important, that's kind of a big deal.
BHack said:
Pete, I'm not convinced most smart phones actually power themselves off of the wallcharger when plugged in as you seem to think. I have no real evidence to back this up, though - other than my own observations.
I will say that the EVO's method isn't as isolated as you seem to think. For example, the Palm Pre which I owned for a year previous to the EVO operates in the exact same manner.
The Pre would hit 100%, stop charging, operate on battery power until it dropped to 95%, then charge from 95 back to 100. The EVO, however, drops down to 90 before it starts the charge cycle again. This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
This might be your first phone that operates this way, but it certainly isn't unique to smartphones or HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had two Pres, and both had the battery % mod on them. I used to set them on my touchstone at work all day long, and I would take them off periodically. My battery drained so bad I could lose 30% in an hour with light use. If I ever took it off the touchstone when it wasn't at 100%, it was only because it got too low and wasn't at 100% yet. I noticed this on day one with my EVO, and never noticed a single issue anything like this on my Pre.
I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm saying I NEVER noticed this. As far as I knew, it charged to 100% and then ran off the plug, or at least that's what I assumed.
this is a strange thread for xda; competent, fully formed sentences. civilized banter. it's nice!
on topic though, i have noticed and came to this conclusion independently a couple months ago. it's kind of irritating - i hate how cheap manufacturers can be sometimes (all the time).
turn said:
this is a strange thread for xda; competent, fully formed sentences. civilized banter. it's nice!
on topic though, i have noticed and came to this conclusion independently a couple months ago. it's kind of irritating - i hate how cheap manufacturers can be sometimes (all the time).
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Click to collapse
Hey, I've seen MUCH worse forums. Try Anandtech sometimes. Some great threads there, and a ton of awful.
I feel like HTC is just not that company that cuts corners. I think this might have been a real attempt to make something work well - or better - but in my opinion it failed miserably.
WrlsFanatic said:
I had two Pres, and both had the battery % mod on them. I used to set them on my touchstone at work all day long, and I would take them off periodically. My battery drained so bad I could lose 30% in an hour with light use. If I ever took it off the touchstone when it wasn't at 100%, it was only because it got too low and wasn't at 100% yet. I noticed this on day one with my EVO, and never noticed a single issue anything like this on my Pre.
I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm saying I NEVER noticed this. As far as I knew, it charged to 100% and then ran off the plug, or at least that's what I assumed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may not have noticed it, but I can guarantee you the Pre charged as I described. It was a "crapshoot" when you pulled it off the charger as to where you actually were in the charge. You could be anywhere from 95 - 100. Of course, the Pre would always show 100%, just as the EVO does.
Because the Pre's battery was smaller, WebOS was more battery hungry than Android, and the fact that it only cycled down to 95 instead of 90 like the EVO are all reasons why you might not have noticed it, but it was there.
BHack said:
This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
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Click to collapse
Why would it be better for the battery? They may be partial charge-discharge cycles but they're cycles nonetheless and the Lithium Polymer cell chemistry is only capable of so many of 'em before it starts to degrade. Short cycles are easier on it than full cycles, but they all take a toll.
I currently have something like 40 LiPo packs that range from dinky little 35mAh single-cell micro batteries to a couple of 10S (37V) 5000mAh packs. I use them in my R/C planes and helicopters, communications gear, and electronics projects and I've used up and disposed of many times that over the years. I even had to build my own packs and chargers when I first started using them because the cells were experimental and there wasn't anything commercially available yet.
And I survived all that without having a single LiPo fire (that I didn't deliberately trigger) and I attribute that to the fact that I've been rabid about learning everything I can about the technology and the use and care of the batteries.
And I'm unaware of any benefit that can be gained from unnecessarily cycling LiPo batteries regardless of how small the cycles are.
Pete
WrlsFanatic said:
I feel like HTC is just not that company that cuts corners. I think this might have been a real attempt to make something work well - or better - but in my opinion it failed miserably.
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My predominant theory is that HTC has erred on the side of caution on the advice of their legal department. LiPo cells can easily become little firebombs if they're mistreated and the overwhelming majority of "events" occur during a charge cycle. Search YouTube for lipo fire and you'll find pages and pages of examples, but beware:
You may not want to carry yer phone in yer pocket right next to yer cojones anymore after you do.
Pete
Having the wall battery charger solves this issue. The wall charger will charge the battery to full capacity.
It also allows me to test battery life on roms/kernels as accurately as possible. Only time I connect the phone to USB is when I need to move files.
Bioxoxide said:
Having the wall battery charger solves this issue.
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Click to collapse
When you say wall charger, do you mean one that you have to remove the battery from the phone and insert it in the charger?
Pete the Curious
Just wanted to say that there have been many discussions on this here at xda, I guess most of us just deal with it.
What I do is charge externaly with a cheap Chinese charger that Came with two batteries that work great.
Every since I made this move I haven't looked back. My battery life is great now, 24 plus hrs per charge. Sometimes I go close to 40 hrs, and I use Bluetooth, have GPS and WiFi ways on. In fact I don't cut any corners, no under clocking either.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I realize that much of this is common knowledge on XDA. Still, every day I see people post about how their phone "loses" 10% as soon as it comes off the charger. I also have friends who can't understand why their battery drains so quickly. Trying to explain this to people without hard numbers is often met with doubt, so I figured that I'd actually plot it out with real data.
So it's not a piece that is optimized for this audience, but I hope that you find it interesting.
--------------------------------------------------
Your Smartphone is Lying to You
(and it's not such a bad thing)
Climbing out of bed, about to start your day, you unplug your new smartphone from its wall charger and quickly check your email. You've left it plugged in overnight, and the battery gauge shows 100%. After a quick shower, you remember that you forgot to send your client a file last night. You pick up your phone again, but the battery gauge now reads 90%. A 10% drop in 10 minutes? The phone must be defective, right?
A common complaint about today's smartphones is their short battery life compared to older cell phones. Years ago, if you accidentally left your charger at home, your phone could still make it through a weeklong vacation with life to spare (I did it more than once). With the newest phones on the market, you might be lucky enough to make it through a weekend.
And why should we expect anything else? Phones used to have a very short list of features: make and receive phone calls. Today we use them for email, web surfing, GPS navigation, photos, video, games, and a host of other tasks. They used to sport tiny displays, while we now have giant touch screens with bright and vibrant colors. All of these features come at a cost: large energy requirements.
Interestingly enough, improvements in battery management technology have compounded the average user's perception of this problem. Older phones were rather inelegant in their charging behavior; usually filling the battery to capacity and then switching to a trickle current to maintain the highest charge possible. This offered the highest usage time in the short-term, but was damaging the battery over the course of ownership. As explained at Battery University, "The time at which the battery stays at [maximum charge] should be as short as possible. Prolonged high voltage promotes corrosion, especially at elevated temperatures."[1]
This is why many new phones will "lose" up to 10% within a few minutes of coming off the charger. The reality is that the battery was only at 100% capacity for a brief moment, after which the battery management system allowed it to slowly dip down to around 90%. Leaving the phone plugged in overnight does not make a difference: the phone only uses the wall current to maintain a partial charge state.
To monitor this, I installed CurrentWidget on my HTC ADR6300 (Droid Incredible), an app that can log how much electric current is being drawn from the battery or received from the charger. Setting it to record log entries every 10 seconds, I have collected a few days worth of data. While many variables are involved (phone hardware, ROM, kernel, etc) and no two devices will perform exactly the same, the trends that I will describe are becoming more common in new phones. This is not just isolated to a single platform or a single manufacturer.
Chart 1 shows system reported battery levels over the course of one night, with the phone plugged in to a charger. Notice that as the battery level approaches 100%, the charging current gradually decreases. After a full charge is reached, wall current is cut completely, with the phone switching back to the battery for all of its power. It isn't until about two hours later that you can see the phone starts receiving wall current again, and even then it is only in brief bursts.
The steep drop in reported battery seen past the 6.5 hour mark shows the phone being unplugged. While the current draw does increase at this point (since the phone is being used), it still cannot account for the reported 6% depletion in 3 minutes. It should also be obvious that maintaining a 100% charge state is impossible given the long spans in which the phone is only operating on battery power.
Using the data from CurrentWidget, however, it is quite easy to project the actual battery state. Starting with the assumption that the first battery percentage reading is accurate, each subsequent point is calculated based on mA draw and time. Chart 2 includes this projection.
Now we can see that the 6% drop after unplugging is simply the battery gauge catching up with reality.
The phone manufacturers essentially have three choices:
1. Use older charging styles which actually maintain a full battery, thereby decreasing its eventual life
2. Use new charging methods and have an accurate battery gauge
3. Use new charging methods and have the inaccurate battery gauge
Option one has clearly fallen out of favor as it prematurely wears devices. Option two, while being honest, would most likely be met with many complaints. After all, how many people want to see their phone draining down to 90% while it is still plugged in? Option three therefore offers an odd compromise. Maybe phone companies think that users will be less likely to worry about a quick drop off the charger than they will worry about a "defective" charger that doesn't keep their phone at 100% while plugged in.
Bump It. Or Should You?
One technique that has gained popularity in the user community is "bump charging." To bump charge a device, turn it off completely, and plug it into a charger. Wait until the indicator light shows a full charge (on the ADR6300, for example, the charging LED changes from amber to green) but do not yet turn the device back on. Instead, disconnect and immediately reconnect the power cord. The device will now accept more charge before saying it is full. This disconnect/reconnect process can be repeated multiple times, each time squeezing just a little bit more into the battery. Does it work?
The following chart plots battery depletion after the device has received a hefty bump charge (6 cycles) and then turned on to use battery power. Note that the system does not show the battery dropping from 100% until well over an hour of unplugged use, at which point it starts to steadily decline. Again, however, it should be obvious that the battery gauge is not syncing up with reality. How could the rate of depletion be increasing over the first 5 hours while the rate of current draw is relatively steady? And why does the projected battery line separate from the reported levels, but then exactly mirror the later rises and falls?
The answer, of course, is that bump charging definitely works. Rather than anchoring our projected values to the first data point of 100%, what happens if we anchor against a later point in the plot?
Aligning the data suggests that a heavy bump charge increases initial capacity by approximately 15%. Note that the only other time that the lines separate in this graph was once again when the phone was put on the charger and topped up to 100%. Just as with the first set of graphs, the phone kept reporting 100% until it was unplugged, dropped rapidly, and again caught up with our projections.
So what does it all mean?
If you absolutely need the highest capacity on a device like this, you will need to bump charge. There are currently people experimenting with "fixes" for this, but I have yet to see one that works. Be warned, however, that repeated bump charging will wear your battery faster and begin to reduce its capacity. If you are a "power user" who will buy a new battery a few months from now anyway, this presumably isn't a concern. If you are an average consumer who uses a device for a few years, I would recommend that you stay away from bump charging. The bottom line is that you don't really "need" to do it unless you are actually depleting your battery to 0% on a regular basis.
If you are someone who can top off your phone on a regular basis, do it. Plug it in when you're at home. Plug it in when you're at your desk. As explained by Battery University, "Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory."[2]
Beyond that, the best advice I can offer is to stop paying such close attention to your battery gauge and to just use your phone. Charge it whenever you can, and then stop obsessing over the exact numbers. If you really need more usage time, buy an extended-capacity battery and use it normally.
Pretty nice to know why it drops from 100% so fast now .....THANKS!
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Well written ..even prior to the data presentation!
Are the images not posted or am I doing something wrong?
Great read, well thought out and explained.
The only thing I'll add is that while there isn't a "memory affect" on our batteries, it is still recommended to do a full charge/discharge (don't let it get to <5% though) about once every 3 months.
Thanks for the kind words, gents.
spatton said:
Are the images not posted or am I doing something wrong?
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You should be able to see them embedded in the post. You can try reading it directly from my site: http://byrong.com/PowerTesting/
I'm not currently aware of any issues with my hosting, so hopefully it shows up OK for people.
toosurreal01 said:
The only thing I'll add is that while there isn't a "memory affect" on our batteries, it is still recommended to do a full charge/discharge (don't let it get to <5% though) about once every 3 months.
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Click to collapse
Good point for many devices which may learn the wrong battery stats if they are never depleted. I am still not sure how this may or may not apply to our devices, so I hesitate to comment on it one way or the other.
I hope someone takes the time to delve more deeply into the battery stats that our devices record. Given the fact that we can wipe them using clockwork recovery, we are at least aware of where/how they are being kept.
That brings up another point worth mentioning, by the way: some people claim that wiping battery stats after a bump charge is a "fix" to increase the total charge that our phones will later apply. This has not been my experience. I have bumped/wiped in accordance with the various tutorials out there, but even afterward I have still found a large difference between a subsequent bump-charging and regular charging.
For some reason, my employer does not like your site and as such, I could not see he images.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. You confirmed my suspicions that I never documented but certainly experienced.
My take on the battery thing now, especially after reading this:
Actively and aggressively seek chargers
Don't look at he specific % of battery, when it gets yellow, get more aggressive
Relax
Use it in the morning, charge it while you shower - better than running out the door.
Great article!
I used to bump charge now if I'm near a charger I just throw it on for a few minutes. I also always carry a spare battery on me.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Very nice.
I have a couple questions though. So on older phones, leaving it plugged in and it hit 100%, but was still getting full current from the charger for the remainder of the night, damages the battery right? so bump charging is doing the same thing, but not really damaging it as much, becuase we're unplugging it as soon as the light turns green, so its "at 100%" but we arent leaving it plugged in for hours after its green.
Excellent read. Very informative and well written!!
very well written. thank you, sir
spatton said:
For some reason, my employer does not like your site and as such, I could not see he images.
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Wow, I'm a little flattered. This is the first time I've heard of an employer blocking my site.
ufvj217 said:
So on older phones, leaving it plugged in and it hit 100%, but was still getting full current from the charger for the remainder of the night, damages the battery right?
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Click to collapse
I don't have hard data for my older devices like I do for this phone, so my answers to this (and your following questions) are a mixture of anecdote, reading, and conjecture.
I don't think that the older devices were still getting full current after hitting 100% but rather some sort of trickle charge to keep them topped off. Battery chemistry itself will limit the charging current that can be applied as the battery approaches capacity.
Depending on the device and its management system, damage could come from too much charge being applied, or it could simply come from keeping the battery at the highest charge level possible for prolonged periods. That may sound like the same thing, but technically it's not.
Batteries are wear items, and even use under ideal conditions will eventually kill them. As shown on Battery University's page on prolonging lithium-based batteries, however, even minor decreases in the final charge level will greatly increase the number of cycles that a battery can endure (note figure 2)
ufvj217 said:
so bump charging is doing the same thing, but not really damaging it as much, becuase we're unplugging it as soon as the light turns green, so its "at 100%" but we arent leaving it plugged in for hours after its green.
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Click to collapse
I'm not 100% sure whether:
Bump-charging is simply charging the battery to its physical capacity, which is greater than the capacity that our software thinks is appropriate;
Bump-charging is actually applying a charge to the battery that is outside of the rated specs for the battery; or
Some mix of 1 & 2
Also, since I can't use any logging tools while the phone is off, I'm not sure how the current behaves once the phone hits 'green' while off.
I therefore don't want to make a hard guess at the three options listed, as I don't want to spread false information. With that said, I think it is apparent through both testing and real-world use that bump-charging applies a charge that is higher than what is allowed when all of the phone's protections are "awake." Given that, we have to ask ourselves why the waking protections are stricter.
If you are inclined to believe that the manufacturer is setting limits that are too low, in an effort to prolong cycle life (or limit liability), then maybe bump-charging isn't too bad.
If you are inclined to believe that the manufacturer chose the charging limits for a good reason, and has the best interest of the consumer in mind, then bump-charging should be considered problematic.
I don't know if one of these is absolutely true over the other, but my life is easier without bump-charging, so I just avoid it. That's a personal choice though. I'm not trying to advance a position here as much as I'm trying to spread information and spark discussion.
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read, and for your questions and comments.
Well put. I rarely bump charge myself, sometimes once i get to work (its at 88-90% by this time, 7am) ill charge it back up, then power it off and bump charge it a couple times. depending on what ill be doing that day after work. since im at a desk though all day, i usually just use it, when it gets to about 50 or so, ill plug it back in, etc. that seems to work fine for me. i do have the htc 2150 battery as well
Like you said, most people probably knew most of that, but still great to see it well written and explained.
Great job on this, I'll most definitely be passing it along to people who ask me what's going on.
Again, well written and very well explained.
Thanks
Thank you!
This has been perplexing me for some time now. Thanks for the info!
Well if youre looking for a batt fix that fixes this issue, you have to take a look in the Nexus and Desire forums. The Desire has it working for sure and I'm not sure about the Nexus. Unfortunately, their fix cannot be applied to our phones because we use a different battery driver...>.< sucks.
And bump charging works sometimes, idk why people turn off their phone to bump charge, thats actually worse than bump charging it when the phone is on. Bump charging when the phone is on is the best thing, the reason why is because percentage means actually nothing with these phones. THe percentage is read from the batterystats.bin file (I think..), which can easily be manipulated. Bump charging works because it rewrites that file once it hits 100% and at the same time, charges back to the highest voltage possible.
I've been working on a fix for our phones (i personally dont own an Incredible, I own an Evo and they use the same driver) and I'm pretty much close. Been on it 24/7 for the past few weeks and all I have to deal with now is the charger timer that seems to reset at a certain time that I cant seem to find yet. This fix should also calibrate the battery on each charge so that you will no longer need to wipe stats or bump charge or do any of that stuff.
so you can charge with the phone on until the led is green, unplug, plug back in (with phone still on) and itll change back to amber for a while?
ufvj217 said:
so you can charge with the phone on until the led is green, unplug, plug back in (with phone still on) and itll change back to amber for a while?
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if you unplug and plug back in instantly it wont do jack for ya. You gotta unplug, wait until you hit 99% and then plug it back in and wait for 100%. Doing that while the phone is on is best because if you've ever noticed, the batterystats gets messed up while the phone is off for the most part (ex: Recovery mode and stuff). Also, idk if this is true for the Inc, but with the Evo, if you have the phone on the charger while its off and power it on while the LED is green, it doesnt stay charging, it goes off the charger to use some battery to power on and then it charges and that messes with the batterystats which messes with the voltage for some odd reason.
Very nicely done. There are always going to be people who don't get it, but this is easily the best synopsis I've seen yet. People get all wrapped up in numbers, instead of actual use, and the percentage becomes way more important than it should be. Just do whatever you need to do (keep a charger handy, get a bigger battery) to support your needs.
I'm one of the fortunate ones... between the tweaks I've done with custom kernels and whatnot and the fact that I'm not a real heavy user, I have no problem making it from morning to bedtime with more than 50% remaining. And you know what? I don't care whether my phone's at 70% or 10% when I plug it in before bed. As long as it makes it that far, I'm happy. I could easily go two days between charges, but I don't bother, because there really isn't any point other than to gloat about my great battery life, which doesn't impress anyone. I've got a charger, and I use it every night. It works for me.
One of the best posts i ever read here! Kudos from an electrical engineer
I have read conflicting articles on increasing the battery life of Lithium-ion batteries (the ones used in Nexus 10). Most of the Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan of 300-400 charge/discharge cycles. From my understanding, this means that it is bad to fully discharge the batteries and then recharge them as it reduces from the above mentioned lifespan and it is better to top-off the battery often as possible.
In fact there was an article that I read on Cnet specifically for the iPad (I'm not allowed to post outside links for some reason, google: "ipad keep plugged in" and the first article in the search result) , where they recommend to keep the iPad plugged-in whenever possible to increase the battery life.
I use my Nexus 10 a lot at house. So, Is it better to keep it plugged-in all that time?
roshanpius said:
I have read conflicting articles on increasing the battery life of Lithium-ion batteries (the ones used in Nexus 10). Most of the Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan of 300-400 charge/discharge cycles. From my understanding, this means that it is bad to fully discharge the batteries and then recharge them as it reduces from the above mentioned lifespan and it is better to top-off the battery often as possible.
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This is correct.
In fact there was an article that I read on Cnet specifically for the iPad (I'm not allowed to post outside links for some reason, google: "ipad keep plugged in" and the first article in the search result) , where they recommend to keep the iPad plugged-in whenever possible to increase the battery life.
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Click to collapse
The life span of LiIon/LiPoly batteries is also reduced when the battery is at or near 100% for a prolonged time. Don't think too much about it, just use the N10 and recharge it often. I usually try to plug it back in around the 70% mark.
It's also quite easy to open up the tablet, you only need a screwdriver and a plastic prying tool and then you can change the battery yourself, if it ever should become necessary (unlikely, unless you plan to use it for ~5 years).
> http://www.powerbookmedic.com/wordpress/2012/11/16/google-nexus-10-take-apart-first-look
i don't care about it... i leave it plugged whenever i can
chances are, those who take "good care" of their battery may end up with 10% more life in 2 years.... and frankly, i couldn't care less about that
not worth the hassle of worrying about batteries anymore
Best practice actually is to drain to 40% and charge up to 80%. Dropping to 90% and charging back up to 100% a bunch is still bad for your battery, as is leaving it plugged in over night when it reached 100% long before you wake up.
EniGmA1987 said:
Best practice actually is to drain to 40% and charge up to 80%. Dropping to 90% and charging back up to 100% a bunch is still bad for your battery, as is leaving it plugged in over night when it reached 100% long before you wake up.
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Click to collapse
It stops charging upon reaching 100%.
Its hard to follow those instructions when your out 24 hours a day, or maybe you just want to use your tablet
Don't worry about doing extra stuff.. like the user said I could careless..
Just don't let your device die, charge it once it hit like 15%..
Saying charge your device once it at 70% is like only driving your car for 5miles and putting it back in the garage and walk the rest of the way..
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
YoungAceAtlanta said:
Saying charge your device once it at 70% is like only driving your car for 5miles and putting it back in the garage and walk the rest of the way..
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I didn't say you have to do that. If it's possible I recharge early, if not I just use it anyway.
Doesn't really matter too much since the battery can be exchanged rather easily if it ever comes to that.
BoneXDA said:
It stops charging upon reaching 100%.
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Click to collapse
Yes, and then it drains a bit and goes back to charging, over and over the rest of the night.
I've read that Li-ion batteries don't like "deep cycles", that is, fully dischanging then fully charging, because this shortens the battery's life. Also that it's not good to have it at 100% for a prolonged time. So it would be best to always have the device partially charged, plugging it if below 50% and unplugging at 90%. When the battery reaches 90% some phones even notify you that "the battery is full, and you can disconnect from charger"
Source: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
I charge my phone overnight, from around 10PM to 8AM, then I leave my phone charging in its dock from about 9AM to 5PM during the work day...
any harm in doing this? I'd like my phone to last quite a while, as we are currently in a serious relationship, and I don't plan on letting her go....
What hurts your phone battery is not charging it but keeping it on high temperatures for a long time. And guess what keeps it on high temperatures: yep, you guessed it, charging for a long time.
Sent from my HTC Desire C using xda app-developers app
While it always depends on the charging circuit, keeping your battery topped up by constant charging (even trickle maintenance) will reduce the voltage level that it can be charged to. This will take quite some time to notice, and several deeper charging cycles will "repair" this to a certain extent. But with any battery, keeping it any constant level will reduce its charging capacity, and continual charging (trickle or otherwise) will "cook" the batteries chemical make up sooner.
To do what you're doing everyday will absolutely have an impact on your battery's health over the long term. But to exactly what extent is based on several factors I don't have specific data on.
Absolutely, our phone battery is designed for mobile usage, not to be tethered to a charger constantly. Constant charging is unnecessary, wasteful and leads to early battery demise.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
And aren't our high end modern phones also designed to trickle charge when it gets to %100, so no harm can come to it?
caliber177 said:
And aren't our high end modern phones also designed to trickle charge when it gets to %100, so no harm can come to it?
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I suppose it depends on how you define "harm". Read my post above again. Any level of current that is continually supplied to a charged battery will accelerate the aging of it.
Even if the charger were to shut off completely, and then resume charging at a certain level (which I believe is the behavior of the LG wireless charger at 95%), continually discharging and recharging from 95% to 100% is probably not ideal.
But all of this is probably not all that great of an affect in the grand scheme of things. You're not gonna kill your battery in a matter of months by leaving on the charger all of the time. Yes you will accelerate the degradation of the battery's health over time, but if your phone is in use enough so the battery is being discharged regularly between charges, I doubt that you will notice it for a long time, if at all.
I can say that if you simply leave it charging 24/7 without any other kind of use you will be able to measure degradation surprisingly soon. As to how noticeable it will be is very hard to say.
I use and suggest Battery Monitor Widget from 3c. It takes the guess work out of what you see when you're charging and what happens to the phone when it reaches 100%.
As the phone gradually reaches 90%, charging is noticeably slowed. From about 92-100% it trickle charges from around 300 to 200 to 100mA until it reaches 100%. Charger stops charging when full and lets the battery level drop slightly before charging it back to 100%. You're constantly topping it off at full and batteries of this chemistry don't like that.
As far as I can recall, these types of batteries actually thrive on being run down and cycled back up. The only catch is, don't run them down until it's completely dead. You've significantly cut the life of your battery if you do it quite often.
To answer your question, it probably doesn't hurt that much. If you do it for months, maybe years. Yeah, you'll see some degradation.
desynch- said:
As far as I can recall, these types of batteries actually thrive on being run down and cycled back up.
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I would correct this and say the battery loves being near the median. Store at 40% battery! 100%-0% is bad... 100%-10% is better, 90/10 is better etc...
80/40 is really good for preserving charge cycles. Basically, charging at 30% back up to 70% is better than letting it go down to 0%
Note: this is a REALLY good battery in this phone. Just USE it until you feel it's dying too soon and buy a new one. Batteries are cheap and will be cheaper in 2-3 years.
But we can't buy battery for this phone.. I always let it run down to 14% that's when the warning message pops up.. Then back up, charges in 2 1/2 hrs then I leave it on an hour more until I leave from work so I could have a full phone.. Note, I work over nights, so its dead at around 2 or 3 am sometimes, then I leave at 6 am..
Sent from my Nexus 4
Please... I would say we can in a few months! Most of us have already voided the warranty
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Most of us in here don't keep our phones long enough to notice any battery degradation..
Just charge it as often as you can but unplug it when it's full.
To be safe I would let the phone idle off of the work charger and only plug in at home.
dralways said:
To be safe I would let the phone idle off of the work charger and only plug in at home.
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Agreed, I only charge once a day and it's usually sufficient, if your a heavy user and are concerned about the phone dying at night, let the phone decharge normally throughout the day and plug it in an hour or an hour and a half before you leave, however long it takes to charge the device after a workday's worth of usage (Whatever that is for you)
I do this myself if I'm using my phone heavily during the day and know I'll be out all night. Like some said you'll probably never even notice the degradation, but when you know it's not good for the battery in the strictest sense why risk it, the phones aren't designed to be charging 2/3rd of the time, they are designed to be charged and then taken off the charger and used.
Hello, so I just got a new Moto X style about a month ago, I need your advice from something, should I charge my phone at 30-40%? if yes then will it have long term damage/worn out my phone?
Thank you
The golden rules are
Don't ever go below 10%
The battery is happiest (most chemically stable) around 40%
Try to spend as little time above 90% as practically possible, especially when charging/using the device. This means never leaving the device plugged overnight
Avoid heat i.e., Do not overtax the phone in an environment like a small, hot room; Avoid simultaneous charging/GPS in the car with the phone in direct sunlight
To combine the last two items, especially avoid high temperatures at higher battery levels. This will degrade the battery very quickly
I've also read stuff about the discharge depth. Something to the tune of discharging the battery from 80% to 60% before charging is better than discharging from 80% to 40% before charging. I've never paid that much attention, because nobody wants to charge their phone 3 times a day, but apparently topping up is better than charging from near empty.
I've had my Pure for a little more than 6 months now. I have been consistently plugging in when my battery hits 30%. My battery life is as good as it has always been.
QuantumFluxx said:
The golden rules are
Don't ever go below 10%
The battery is happiest (most chemically stable) around 40%
Try to spend as little time above 90% as practically possible, especially when charging/using the device. This means never leaving the device plugged overnight
Avoid heat i.e., Do not overtax the phone in an environment like a small, hot room; Avoid simultaneous charging/GPS in the car with the phone in direct sunlight
To combine the last two items, especially avoid high temperatures at higher battery levels. This will degrade the battery very quickly
I've also read stuff about the discharge depth. Something to the tune of discharging the battery from 80% to 60% before charging is better than discharging from 80% to 40% before charging. I've never paid that much attention, because nobody wants to charge their phone 3 times a day, but apparently topping up is better than charging from near empty.
I've had my Pure for a little more than 6 months now. I have been consistently plugging in when my battery hits 30%. My battery life is as good as it has always been.
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IMO charging overnight dont do anything to the battery, phone stops charging at 100% and start to use energy from the charger, but im with you with the 10%.
I think all these "rules" are all just bunk and superstition... If you make it through the day, plug it in overnight, and start again in the morning, if not when the battery is low, charge it when it is convenient, don't be scared of "overcharging" as that isn't really possible anymore with electronics in batteries and devices. The device is meant to be used, not babied.
These lion lipm battery do not actually ever charge to their full capacity. This is by design so 100 % is really around 80 in reality and 0 is around 8 to 10%. Again this is by design the chipset monitors the battery temperature and charge load as well as discharge load and compensates for heat and load. All this crap about charging at different rates and in different situations is bunk written by people that don't realize battery design is constantly changing. And since quick charge 1 things have changed a ton.
RK2116 said:
IMO charging overnight dont do anything to the battery, phone stops charging at 100% and start to use energy from the charger, but im with you with the 10%.
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Sooo does this mean I can charge my phone over night using the Turbo charger 25W that comes with the phone?
acejavelin said:
I think all these "rules" are all just bunk and superstition... If you make it through the day, plug it in overnight, and start again in the morning, if not when the battery is low, charge it when it is convenient, don't be scared of "overcharging" as that isn't really possible anymore with electronics in batteries and devices. The device is meant to be used, not babied.
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So does this mean i can charge it over night with the turbo charger?
HerySean said:
So does this mean i can charge it over night with the turbo charger?
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Yes
acejavelin said:
Yes
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+1
---------- Post added at 06:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------
HerySean said:
Sooo does this mean I can charge my phone over night using the Turbo charger 25W that comes with the phone?
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Yes.
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
QuantumFluxx said:
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
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Have you verified that he is running exactly the same apps as you with exactly the same service throughout the day. If not then your supposing that charging is the issue is simply a guess. The only way to determine exactly would be a to set them up exactly the same and run them exactly the same in exactly the same conditions for a week or more and log the battery life..
autosurgeon said:
Have you verified that he is running exactly the same apps as you with exactly the same service throughout the day. If not then your supposing that charging is the issue is simply a guess. The only way to determine exactly would be a to set them up exactly the same and run them exactly the same in exactly the same conditions for a week or more and log the battery life..
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I run more than he does. He is older, and does not use social media. I use FB/Messenger, Snapchat, Twitter, and Instagram with push notifications enabled. Our standby battery drains are very different from 100%. His device hits 90 while mine is reading 94. The devices are physically next to one another. I only know this because he's at my house every weekend. He always plugs my phone in when he plugs in his even though I've told him not to a hundred times. There are probably other factors involved, but I always attributed the difference to him constantly leaving his phone plugged in for hours on end.
Have you looked at his screen timeout? Screen brightness. Or checked to see if he has a misbehaving app? Does he have wifi at his house ? Or is his doing all it's updates at your place? See there are tons of variables that have nothing to do with charging that are simply more likely to be causing the issue you are noticing
autosurgeon said:
Have you looked at his screen timeout? Screen brightness. Or checked to see if he has a misbehaving app? Does he have wifi at his house ? Or is his doing all it's updates at your place? See there are tons of variables that have nothing to do with charging that are simply more likely to be causing the issue you are noticing
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I mean, I wouldn't describe what I'm observing as an 'issue'. I understand where you're coming from though. I have gone to war against errant battery drains in the past. Lollipop/Marshmallow's mobile radio drain is something I surely won't miss. He does have Wifi at his house for app updates and such.
Just for the clarity's sake, we're talking about:
2 identical devices, running the same version of Android and the same ROM, which are connected to the same mobile and wifi networks, in the same physical location - so service quality is not a variable, unless there is a hardware issue. Both devices are [simultaneously] charged to 100%, and then they are unplugged and their screens remain off. Upon checking both devices a little while later, mine is at 94% while his is at 90%. My device is encrypted, rooted, has custom kernel settings relating to the governor, read ahead, and entropy, and runs various GCM social/messaging apps, and has an extensive Tasker setup. His device is untouched. Both devices have been fully drained and recharged at least once in the past 60 days.
I have looked at his battery usage, which I log with 3C Toolbox. There is no excessive drain from any apps, the cell radio, the kernel, etc...
Regardless of what is causing it, the observable evidence is curious.
QuantumFluxx said:
I won't argue with anyone here, but I would advise all of you to research lithium ion battery technology. The OP asked how to prevent long term damage to his battery. My friend and I bought our Pure's at the same time. I charge the way that I indicated, he leaves his phone plugged in all night, every night. We're both on Verizon, and I've noticed that his battery drains much more quickly than mine does.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Take care, all.
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Not saying you are wrong, but the scenario you give is at best circumstantial with the given info. It does not account for other factors such as apps installed, network connectivity, how the phone is being used, etc.
Screen brightness can drastically change how long until you have to recharge. Mine is usually only 1/4 of the way up.