Database Users

HTC Mogul memory decrease over the course of a day

What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?

hansolos said:
What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?
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Yea I get the same problem. Except I start off with about 20 and end up with as low as 9 before i'm forced to soft reset.

Its the magic of the Mogul's memory leak. The old rom and new rom feature it so untill a new update comes out, were stuck with it.

Does the Hermes and Kaiser have the same issue? They seem to be similar. They other thing is that the WM6 is suppose to have made those apps that leak in previous versions run at the kernel level.

my titan doesnt have the issue. its an app you've got installed. hard reset and dont install anything, you wont have the problem. troubleshooting 101. dont blame the titan.

I posted this on another forum discussing this problem, so I'll just quote myself here:
The memory "leak" thing is nothing more than a cache "optimization" in place to make the device respond snappier.
Whether it succeeds or not is another story altogether...
Basically, like any cache, it stores recent calculations for faster response later. For example, if you open and close IE alot, you might notice that the first time you open it on a fresh restart takes a little bit longer than the next times- that's because the second time you start it up, parts of it are still in memory from the first time!
You might be wondering why this happens even after forcing it closed with Xbutton or the memory settings. That's because the info stored in the performance cache aren't directly related to any one program! Many apps can use the same routines and calculations, and therefore this process exists on a processor/file system layer as opposed to a software layer, and therefore also exists even when all programs are closed!
Meaning, if I have mapopolis that uses a certain routine to access my BT GPS receiver, even after I close it, some of that routine stays in memory because perhaps Google Maps will use the same routine, and therefore respond faster!
Now, ideally, this should speed up performance, and it SHOULD disappear on its own if the memory is needed and the information goes "stale" (hasn't been processed in a while = not really needed for optimized perfomance). However, one look at the way Microsoft handles "automatically closing apps" (native X button, anyone?) is enough to know that WM can't manage its own memory very well.
I can, however, vouch for the fact that the longer you leave all programs closed, the more of your memory starts to creep back into available. I've sat and watched this happen. So, it sort of works, but perhaps not well enough if people are having low memory system crash problems.
Now, before you all start blaming MS for this... Its not Microsoft's problem. They developed CE-5 (which WM6 is based on) on machines limited to 32MB to make sure the programmers didn't get lazy with OS bloat.
Its the manufacturers who add all this file system optimization and stuff to their final device. In this case, its the way HTC thinks the system should run, which is why this anomaly is NOT as apparent on, say, a WM Treo device.
The good news is that if we complain enough, HTC might realize this optimization does more bad than good, and leave it out on the next ROM update for us.
However, truth be told, I think it works. The Mogul is one of the snappiest PPC's I've used of late, although I can't say for sure if its because of the cache or not.
This is just my personal opinion, so don't flog me! I just don't look at the memory useage anymore unless I'm having a problem, which mind you, I hardly do.
My most recent observations were this:
Soft reset gives me ~21MB (got some htc plugins), and after a day of use, making sure to close everything after I'm done, I get 18-19MB. At lowest, I hit 10MB after closing alot of apps. This memory usually comes back to 18-19mb in a matter of time for me. If for some strange reason it doesn't (can't say how often this happens), I soft reset.
All in all, I'm happy with the Mogul.
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I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
I was just wondering if others had the same issue and might know of the reason.
Is there a list of known apps that cause memory 'drain' or don't clear their cache. I can understand apps caching data into memory to run faster, but they are not cleaning themselves out upon exit. The strange thing is how they continue to grow over the course of the day with no interaction.
I'm doing a hard reset to see if it get better. Add apps one at a time until I find an issue.

Ok did a hard reset. Setup Outlook to get my mail from Exchange and Gmail. Let it get synced and then did a soft reset. Started with 24mb after reset, down to 21mb without doing anything after an hour and it's still falling. The only thing running is ActiveSync. I've also removed htc_cm_guardain and ssdaemon from the startup. The only thing in startup is poutlook.
The thing I noticed when I had handyswitcher installed (before hard reset) was that filesys, device, gwes, services, shell and cprog all continously increased there memory consumption over the course of a few hours and never stopped or released it.

hansolos said:
I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
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No no no... the reason you used to be able to select storage vs RAM was because it was SHARED memory! It was actually all RAM. If you had a 64MB device, that 64mb was split between ram and storage, and just like the rest of your RAM, it would wipe out when the battery died!
Ever since WM5 came along, they stopped sharing the memory, and now have dedicated RAM and Storage (using the leftover space on the EPROM chips used for the ROM image), much like a computer. This is a much better solution since you don't sacrifice your RAM for storing some large files, and you don't have to worry about battery failure cleaning you out!
Also, its not the apps that have cache, its the file system. The file system WILL actually free up some of that memory as the device is left with all apps closed for a while (maybe not all of it, but I've watched my device go from 11mb free after closing stuff to 18-19mb).

You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.

bam, thanks for the info... that little app rocks.

use a file explorer and go to \Windows\Startup. There is a shortcut there for a program along the lines of HTC_Guardian_cmsomething. This app is a htc app used to enforce sprint settings and runs in the background. So long as you don't destroy your phone internet settings you can just remove the shortcut. I found all my memory leak issues have gone away. I don't have any leaks when using the kaiser tab plugin.

Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.

what does SDdaemon do?

sddaemon is suppose to be the speed dial or voice command app you get when you hit the button on the left side with the talk bubble. It loads the app if you hit the button, so I'm not sure why they have it in startup.

On my old Treo 700W, which REALLY had a memory problem, I used Oxios hibernate all the time. It works quite well.

yes, it works.
bam099 said:
You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.
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you know what might help...if windows mobile had some sorta sorta disk caching feature...

that's what is causing the memory leak.

great tips. thanks.
hansolos said:
Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.
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Blackstone Crashing

Recently my Touch HD has randomly started to hang/crash forcing me to soft reset the device. Only seems to happen once or twice a day and generally when i am navigating around the TF3D interface, may be coincidence but ususally when i am navigating away from the email tab...usually for the first time in the day. I only have 50 or so emails and none of them are particularly big either.
The 3-5 second hotfix delay that HTC released doesnt work on my device....
The only thing that i have installed recently is a game ripped from the X1 but cant see it being that as others have downloaded it from Xda-developers and not had this problem so...
Can anyone suggest any fixes that wont involve a hard reset....really dont want to do that as i have the device set up how i want and the restore point i created via sprite wont work sad.gif
Pllllleeeeeeease some one help.
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Posted this on MoDaCo and not had much of a response....searched all threads on here and applied a few of the fixes that are going round and still my HD is freezing. Did it while navigating away from the SMS tab the other day
I have done the following already:
Removed the emila account and reinstalled it
Set the attachments storage folder back to local mem (was on SD card)
removed all recently installed programs
cleared mailbox on phone
Deleted all sent items and deleted item in SMS (thinking there was too much mem being used)
applied a graphics fix (found on here)
changed all HD tweak settings that refer to performance back to default
removed any programs installed on SD
Can anyone provide me with a solution. really dont wat to have to Hard reset my device but starting to think that it is going to come to that
Thanks

If I don't fix it, I will have to hard reset.

This sucks. Everything was going great but for someone reason lately, I am having trouble turning on my XV6800 from standby. Some times I have to hit the power button more then once. Or wait for a couple of seconds then it turns on. It is not dependent on the power button, because when I switched it to turn on when any button is on, it still won't turn on. What does get it out for good is if there is a call or a text that wakes its self up. But other times the power button works great.
I would love to solve this problem! I used SKTools to see what is running as soon as I hit the power button and hit it again to turn on. Both TimeWizard.exe and shell32.exe are at hundred for that second. Is that ok/normal? Have any suggestings before I hard reset?
If I do hard reset, I am wondering if instead of going to MR1 I should go with a WM6.5 rom. Is it really more trouble then its worth? I get about 21 of 22MB at startup (aftering clearing ram in beginning). What's the average for WM6.5 with the titan? I rather fix my problem and not hard reset, hate to reinstall all the software and do all the registry hacks all over again.
edit: Looks like this is an issue (a lot of people had it) that cannot be solved without hard reseting. So I still need to decide what route (MR1 or WM6.5) to go with...

I personally like 6.5. With the inclusion of a tool called nueKernel, many ROMs will boot with up to 28ish MB of RAM in high memory mode on a fresh install. In low memory mode, it's usually between 20 and 22. High memory mode, if you aren't aware, temporarily disables the camera. Low memory mode enables the camera. You can switch back and forth easily using a setting in your System menu.
Also, make note of any tools you currently use on your Today screen. Any third party additions may not exist for the new Titanium layout. There are a bunch of new add-ins for it that will most likely do everything that you need, but do some poking around first. You can also use the older today screen on 6.5 if you can't find what you need for Titanium, but that ruins a lot of the fun.
Since you use SKTools, you can also easily export any registry tweaks you put in, and re-import them on whichever ROM you decide to use. It's fairly easy.
There are a number of ROMs to choose from between XDA and ppcgeeks. Read some of the comments and check out what the chef includes. It will be pretty different than the official Verizon ROM you are used to, but that's usually a good thing. I currently use bbsandkm's 6.5 ROM from ppcgeeks, but that's personal preference. Ryan and TPLane here on XDA make some amazing ROMs that you can use, too.
But before you flash to any non-official ROM, please make sure you read up on the guides to do it properly. It's really pretty simple, but you need to just follow the directions.

Is the around 20MB the amount with Titanium? I love HTC Home since I can use the Today calendar. All these new plugins never show the complete day of apointments.
Yeah I would have to do some reading before I even consider. I do know I would have to downgrade to the original 6.0 OS before going custom. Would I have to go back to 6.0 again and then 6.1 if I decide I don't like 6.5? Already getting scared just thinking about it lol.

segadc said:
Is the around 20MB the amount with Titanium? I love HTC Home since I can use the Today calendar. All these new plugins never show the complete day of apointments.
Yeah I would have to do some reading before I even consider. I do know I would have to downgrade to the original 6.0 OS before going custom. Would I have to go back to 6.0 again and then 6.1 if I decide I don't like 6.5? Already getting scared just thinking about it lol.
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In high memory mode after installing all my programs, I start with between 25 and 26 meg free. That is using Titanium.
The only reason (I think) that you'd need to downgrade to 6.0 is if your GPS does not work after your upgrade. And no, you wouldn't need to re-install 6.1 during the process.

Downgrade is necessary if you have a pri of 2.03xx and want gps to work on your custom rom.

I got so sick of this problem I just hard resetted and went for MR1. I will switch to WM6.5 maybe later in the future.
However, I notice my Titan did it again today! It barely has anything on it right now. So I am guessing my memory card might be the problem. So much stuff on it (its a 16GB) like portable apps, every cab I have ever downloaded etc. That's my only guess. Would a memory card be causing this problem?

segadc said:
I got so sick of this problem I just hard resetted and went for MR1. I will switch to WM6.5 maybe later in the future.
However, I notice my Titan did it again today! It barely has anything on it right now. So I am guessing my memory card might be the problem. So much stuff on it (its a 16GB) like portable apps, every cab I have ever downloaded etc. That's my only guess. Would a memory card be causing this problem?
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What you are experiencing is a DSOD (dark screen of death). Usually its because of something installed to your storage card that is always running(not good, things like that need installed to device memory). Also make sure you have no .exe's in the 2577 folder on storage card (if you have the folder).
Here are some possible examples of DSOD's
Disable the automatic ActiveSync checking. This is the official solution from Verizon Data Technical Support.
Do not install software on the storage card that might trigger automatically. That means: Absolutely no today plug-ins, no ring tones, nothing that runs in the background, and nothing that could accidentally be triggered if you hit one of the buttons of your device.
Do not store data that might be accessed automatically. Same thing. Basically, do not store mail attachments on the storage card if you have wireless sync.
Close programs that use the storage card before turning your device off. Magic Button is an excellent tool to do this.
If you do install programs on the storage card, do NOT use the "Programs" window or the start menu to start them. Instead, use a File Explorer to run them. If you use "Programs" or the start menu, that program will be in your list of recently accessed applications in the start menu. So the next time you turn your device on and click on the start menu, the system will access your storage card to load the icon of the application - this will create a noticeable delay of several seconds, if not DSOD.
Don't randomly install crap. Every single piece of software you install could interfere with your system. Limit the software you install to what you really need. Check the forums, some people named a few programs that explicitly did not work for them.
I hope this helps you out.

Wow thanks, that helps a lot!
edit: Not my day. Don't ask me why but I decided to clean some registry after cleaning up my card. Well I deleted something that effects me to not see the verizon mobile site. I posted about it before here. At least now I know what I did wrong with that problem. Anyway, if I were to hard reset, will it revert back to a clean MR1 with all the Verizon stuff? So far I have been just reinstalling MR1 which does it all. The reason I ask is I hate to wait until tonight to do this again. Thanks guys.

RyanMogul6800 said:
What you are experiencing is a DSOD (dark screen of death). Usually its because of something installed to your storage card that is always running(not good, things like that need installed to device memory). Also make sure you have no .exe's in the 2577 folder on storage card (if you have the folder).
Here are some possible examples of DSOD's
Disable the automatic ActiveSync checking. This is the official solution from Verizon Data Technical Support.
Do not install software on the storage card that might trigger automatically. That means: Absolutely no today plug-ins, no ring tones, nothing that runs in the background, and nothing that could accidentally be triggered if you hit one of the buttons of your device.
Do not store data that might be accessed automatically. Same thing. Basically, do not store mail attachments on the storage card if you have wireless sync.
Close programs that use the storage card before turning your device off. Magic Button is an excellent tool to do this.
If you do install programs on the storage card, do NOT use the "Programs" window or the start menu to start them. Instead, use a File Explorer to run them. If you use "Programs" or the start menu, that program will be in your list of recently accessed applications in the start menu. So the next time you turn your device on and click on the start menu, the system will access your storage card to load the icon of the application - this will create a noticeable delay of several seconds, if not DSOD.
Don't randomly install crap. Every single piece of software you install could interfere with your system. Limit the software you install to what you really need. Check the forums, some people named a few programs that explicitly did not work for them.
I hope this helps you out.
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Wow, you learn something new every day! Amazing writeup.

It happened again last night but I am thinking it might be caused by the latest SKTools. But not sure since I had it almost a month before this happened. I might go all day without it and see if that is the case. Then if it is the I will get the lower version.
Also, I am going crazy here, which registry edit is to take away the keyboard lag? I cannot remember if it had to do with increasing the gyphe or whatever maybe taking away the speed of the keyboard when it lights up. I just cannot remember. I looked at tons of posts here and PPcgeeks but still cannot find or figure out which one did it. Thanks guys. I need to seriously remember these registry hacks for next time.
ok: it was not SKtools. I put it back on. I decided to wipe my memory card clean and start over. So far so good! Now I will have time to find some registry edits.

Phone Storage Memory

Hi,
I currently only have 4.98mb left of the 180.85mb total storage available on my device and am now getting 'critically low memory' warnings. I have not installed many apps or anything else to the phone and can't really understand why this is so high.
I had a look at the folders which are: -
Application Data 39.8mb
Documents and Settings 1.07mb
My Documents 2.77mb
Program Files 10.4mb
Windows - doesn't say but must be approx 115mb for the total to be correct? Is this normal?
Also, I have 115.06mb free of the 336.93mb total program memory available.
Is anyone else having similar issues? If the windows section is suppossed to use this high amount why has the phone not been allocated enough memory to deal with it?
Thanks
James

You should search a bit, but, empty the cache folder of HTCAlbum, Opera, etc.. in Application Data.

Thanks for the help. I have deleted the contects of the HTCalbum cache and Google maps and this has increased the available memory to 39.57mb.
Why should we have to delete cache data to be able to use our device? This seems a bit crap to me

Your memory usage is not normal- the HD2 has about 135MB free Storage Memory after a hard reset, so something has grabbed your memory somewhere.
I'd suggest downloading a small program called SpaceFinder which can give you a tree view of where the memory has gone sorted by folder size. It was designed for much older versions of WinMo but still works well. Some of the fiels it sees are in the ROM, but at least it will give you some clues.
Culprits for memory usage apart from the caches are music and video files- look in those folders to see if there's anything obvious.

Hello JJJJacksonjjjjj
Your problem is not new and has been reported many times on here.
If you look in the hints and tips thread in this forum there are a number of suggestions for clawing back memory space, which I suggest you implement.
Other thing is I bet you have been installing all of your apps onto the phome memory when you could have done so onto the storage card. If I am right then I would suggest you backup all your data using, say Sprite Backup or my preferred app which is SPB Backup, hard reset your phone and rebuild it from scratch, installing your apps carefully and onto the memory card instead.
Might sound a bit heavy handed but you will reap the benefits in the long run (If too drastic for you then deinstall and reinstall apps onto external memory instead without hard resetting).
I built my phone exactly this way from day one. Every app that gets installed gets assessed by me as to whether it needs to be in phone memory or not. If not then its straight onto the memory card (running an 8GB at the moment, waiting for the 32GB to come onstream and at at a reasonable price).
This, plus all the tips in the thread I mentioned earlier, have left me a happy bunny memory wise.
Good luck with it.
WB

Thanks guys, I am sorted now.
I downloaded spacefinder (really good program) and found out straight away that I had 30mb+ in Windows>Opera9>Profile>Download. I didn't know it kept all the downloaded cabs and pdfs etc you download (without saving), I thought these would be cleared when you exit Opera.
Also there were loads of facebook pictures in the temporary internet files of Internet Explorer! Why does it save all these?!
Anyway, I am now at 93.5mb free out of 180.85mb so all is good
Don't get me wrong I love my HD2 (and TP before) but HTC will never win over the mass market unless they sort out these kind of issues. Most people I know wouldn't have the first idea about all the messing about we have to do with these devices, and as a result they would have a sluggish, buggy device within weeks of normal use.
Without the help form you guys on XDA I would have probobly ditched the TP after a month or so, and I think I knew deep down I was being too hopeful, but I thought the HD2 would be free from the minor niggles I had with my TP.
That turned into a bit of a rant lol.
Thanks again guys.

...many problems are for cache of programs like htc album, opera, google maps...
...in this post there are many advice, and explain how to move the htc album cache to storage card
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=600578
...i have a good result with SKTOOLS program, because i had the same problem with the internal memory
good luck!

jjjacksonjjj said:
Don't get me wrong I love my HD2 (and TP before) but HTC will never win over the mass market unless they sort out these kind of issues.
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Click to collapse
Glad you're sorted- despite its age, I still always load Spacefinder as one of my 1st apps. Only 72KB and does exactly what it says!
Don't blame HTC for these issues- it is down to both MS and the application developers like Opera to define whether & where they store stuff.
At least the HD2 has a fair amount of free space- unlike earlier devices which ground to a halt because of these stupid problems.

Spacefinder download link please gents (google is not turning up what I am looking for)?
Cheers
WB

NeilM said:
Don't blame HTC for these issues- it is down to both MS and the application developers like Opera to define whether & where they store stuff.
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Click to collapse
I am probably being a bit unfair to HTC, but a lot of the common issues most people seem to have are (as far as I can see) ones that HTC should sort - sms, pink camera etc (I didn't just mean the memory). How can they release a top line device with these issues and expect that users will check for and install fixes?
My point is that they are selling us a product; which they know things like Opera, the facebook app, HTC photo etc are integral to how it will be used by the consumer, so they should ensure these functions work reliably out of the box without user research and fixing.
I don't want to knock HTC (I wouldn't have any other device now), but there are always niggles that they should sort out before release

Running out of memory?

I am running into the issue when I try to run an app there isn't enough memory. I don't have anything running in the back ground. I find that if I delete all my sms/mms it removes the problem for a while until it fills up again. I guess my question is what else can I clean out to gain more memory. I thought I was saving everything I could to the SD card. How do I isolate which programs are using the most memory? Thanks for any help you may be able to provide!
Sincerely,
Lou

Clear Temp & Install to Storage Card
Hello.. I was having the same problem as well. I bought this phone about a month ago and I love it. I started getting a memory error, and eventually the phone stopped receiving texts and notifications. Very frustrating.
I searched online and found a helpful page and then decided to reinstall apps to the storage card. It takes some digging but you can also find tweaks for storing email attachments, temp files, etc. to the storage card (haven't checked, surely the folks here at XDA have suggestions to make this easier). Finally I discovered this really cool little app called cleanRAM.
I've noticed an improvement. Mainly because it seems the HTC apps sure love to eat up local memory and make things run rather sluggish on the Imagio.
I started with the "Troubleshooting: HTC Imagio (Verizon) Sluggishness/Freezing" over at the HTC forums.
(I guess I'm too new to post a link. Sorry!)
And then thought really long and hard about installing software to the storage card. I figured because I never remove it, and its a 8GB card, probably not a bad idea to start doing it.
I had to really think about it because I prefer to save my storage card space for music and pictures.
Anyway, I would install anything system-related such as file finders, registry editors, .Net CF, today launchers, Gyrator, cleanRAM etc to the device. Everything else such as Google Maps, 3rd party browsers, games, GPS utilities, etc. is now installed to the storage card.
I just found this today and it seems to work pretty well. Try searching for "cleanRAM windows mobile" in Google.
Hey XDA folks.. surely you guys have placed more tips and tweaks elsewhere for this sort of thing, specific to the Imagio..??

The only thing you should install to the device itself are things like MODS, not APPS.
ESPESCIALLY NOT the CF Framework. It is hugh!!!
As a general rule... MODS to Device. APPS to Storage Card

Hey, so I'm slow..
I haven't checked back here in a while. So I'm a little slow!!
Yeah, you know I never really gave much thought to where to install software to, and got into the habit of always internal. Ever since experiencing the memory issue on the Imagio, I changed that habit pretty quickly.
What I find interesting is, if a techie like me had all these "problems" I can only imagine what non-techies must go through. I feel bad for them, because if they would read the manual, take time to research Imagio memory issues, and take the time to tweak their phones they wouldn't have so many problems!
Anyway, thanks much for the tip. Been wanting (yes.. wanting) to do a hard reset just to clean things up and to install mods and apps in the right spots.
My only concern is with Bing. When I do the hard reset, I probably won't even start it. I miss the old version. It's installed to the ROM, correct? So should I accidentally start it and it automatically upgrades, where should the upgrade go.. internal memory, or storage card?