What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?
hansolos said:
What is up with the memory drain on this device. I'll start the day with 24mb of memory (soft reset) and only have 10mb or less at the end of the day with no apps but activesync running. Has anyone less notice this?
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Yea I get the same problem. Except I start off with about 20 and end up with as low as 9 before i'm forced to soft reset.
Its the magic of the Mogul's memory leak. The old rom and new rom feature it so untill a new update comes out, were stuck with it.
Does the Hermes and Kaiser have the same issue? They seem to be similar. They other thing is that the WM6 is suppose to have made those apps that leak in previous versions run at the kernel level.
my titan doesnt have the issue. its an app you've got installed. hard reset and dont install anything, you wont have the problem. troubleshooting 101. dont blame the titan.
I posted this on another forum discussing this problem, so I'll just quote myself here:
The memory "leak" thing is nothing more than a cache "optimization" in place to make the device respond snappier.
Whether it succeeds or not is another story altogether...
Basically, like any cache, it stores recent calculations for faster response later. For example, if you open and close IE alot, you might notice that the first time you open it on a fresh restart takes a little bit longer than the next times- that's because the second time you start it up, parts of it are still in memory from the first time!
You might be wondering why this happens even after forcing it closed with Xbutton or the memory settings. That's because the info stored in the performance cache aren't directly related to any one program! Many apps can use the same routines and calculations, and therefore this process exists on a processor/file system layer as opposed to a software layer, and therefore also exists even when all programs are closed!
Meaning, if I have mapopolis that uses a certain routine to access my BT GPS receiver, even after I close it, some of that routine stays in memory because perhaps Google Maps will use the same routine, and therefore respond faster!
Now, ideally, this should speed up performance, and it SHOULD disappear on its own if the memory is needed and the information goes "stale" (hasn't been processed in a while = not really needed for optimized perfomance). However, one look at the way Microsoft handles "automatically closing apps" (native X button, anyone?) is enough to know that WM can't manage its own memory very well.
I can, however, vouch for the fact that the longer you leave all programs closed, the more of your memory starts to creep back into available. I've sat and watched this happen. So, it sort of works, but perhaps not well enough if people are having low memory system crash problems.
Now, before you all start blaming MS for this... Its not Microsoft's problem. They developed CE-5 (which WM6 is based on) on machines limited to 32MB to make sure the programmers didn't get lazy with OS bloat.
Its the manufacturers who add all this file system optimization and stuff to their final device. In this case, its the way HTC thinks the system should run, which is why this anomaly is NOT as apparent on, say, a WM Treo device.
The good news is that if we complain enough, HTC might realize this optimization does more bad than good, and leave it out on the next ROM update for us.
However, truth be told, I think it works. The Mogul is one of the snappiest PPC's I've used of late, although I can't say for sure if its because of the cache or not.
This is just my personal opinion, so don't flog me! I just don't look at the memory useage anymore unless I'm having a problem, which mind you, I hardly do.
My most recent observations were this:
Soft reset gives me ~21MB (got some htc plugins), and after a day of use, making sure to close everything after I'm done, I get 18-19MB. At lowest, I hit 10MB after closing alot of apps. This memory usually comes back to 18-19mb in a matter of time for me. If for some strange reason it doesn't (can't say how often this happens), I soft reset.
All in all, I'm happy with the Mogul.
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I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
I was just wondering if others had the same issue and might know of the reason.
Is there a list of known apps that cause memory 'drain' or don't clear their cache. I can understand apps caching data into memory to run faster, but they are not cleaning themselves out upon exit. The strange thing is how they continue to grow over the course of the day with no interaction.
I'm doing a hard reset to see if it get better. Add apps one at a time until I find an issue.
Ok did a hard reset. Setup Outlook to get my mail from Exchange and Gmail. Let it get synced and then did a soft reset. Started with 24mb after reset, down to 21mb without doing anything after an hour and it's still falling. The only thing running is ActiveSync. I've also removed htc_cm_guardain and ssdaemon from the startup. The only thing in startup is poutlook.
The thing I noticed when I had handyswitcher installed (before hard reset) was that filesys, device, gwes, services, shell and cprog all continously increased there memory consumption over the course of a few hours and never stopped or released it.
hansolos said:
I wasn't blaming the Titan directly, although I wish they would allow you to adjust the memory like they have in the past. But as I've read that may having something to do with chipset of battery consumption.
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No no no... the reason you used to be able to select storage vs RAM was because it was SHARED memory! It was actually all RAM. If you had a 64MB device, that 64mb was split between ram and storage, and just like the rest of your RAM, it would wipe out when the battery died!
Ever since WM5 came along, they stopped sharing the memory, and now have dedicated RAM and Storage (using the leftover space on the EPROM chips used for the ROM image), much like a computer. This is a much better solution since you don't sacrifice your RAM for storing some large files, and you don't have to worry about battery failure cleaning you out!
Also, its not the apps that have cache, its the file system. The file system WILL actually free up some of that memory as the device is left with all apps closed for a while (maybe not all of it, but I've watched my device go from 11mb free after closing stuff to 18-19mb).
You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.
bam, thanks for the info... that little app rocks.
use a file explorer and go to \Windows\Startup. There is a shortcut there for a program along the lines of HTC_Guardian_cmsomething. This app is a htc app used to enforce sprint settings and runs in the background. So long as you don't destroy your phone internet settings you can just remove the shortcut. I found all my memory leak issues have gone away. I don't have any leaks when using the kaiser tab plugin.
Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.
what does SDdaemon do?
sddaemon is suppose to be the speed dial or voice command app you get when you hit the button on the left side with the talk bubble. It loads the app if you hit the button, so I'm not sure why they have it in startup.
On my old Treo 700W, which REALLY had a memory problem, I used Oxios hibernate all the time. It works quite well.
yes, it works.
bam099 said:
You guys need to hit the easy button on this one! It may not be a permanent fix, but there's a small freeware called Oxios Hibernate that releases RAM. I just put it on my start menu and 2 clicks....I have free RAM. Try it out, you won't be disappointed.
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you know what might help...if windows mobile had some sorta sorta disk caching feature...
that's what is causing the memory leak.
great tips. thanks.
hansolos said:
Yes I've removed the links for HTC_Guardian and SSDaemon from startup and added them to my settings folder (if I ever need them). I soft reset to around 25mb and the Oxios Hibernate app keeps me around 24.5mb.
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Related
I've been trying out a variety of these Today Mods and Pocket Plus has worked the best for me, however I noticed one thing...its memory usage.
When I first turn on the phone I'll have about 22mb of memory. If I start other programs it'll go down to 15-16mb or so, so that sounds normal. But once I close the programs, the memory (as it displays on the Today screen) never fully returns to its state before I started the other programs. The memory would just go back to about 17mb.
In addition, I've seen my memory dipping down to as low as 3-4mb with just my WMP playing.
I haven't noticed these things with other programs of this type such as Wisbar Advance. I did a hard reset of my phone without any apps and my memory is being restored just fine...
So my question is, is this common with Pocket Plus? Is it reporting the correct memory available? I really love the prog but it sure does seem like a resource hog...
Hmm, haven't noticed this behavior & I'm using it for some time now. Disabling the today-plugin saves me around 1MB. Must say I'm not using the memory bar so can't judge about that.
M
If I start other programs it'll go down to 15-16mb or so, so that sounds normal. But once I close the programs, the memory (as it displays on the Today screen) never fully returns to its state before I started the other programs. The memory would just go back to about 17mb.
While PP is not the "lightest" app out there, the behavior you described is more in line with the apps that your are launching, not PP. As for PP, uncheck any functionality that you don't want to use. With version 3.1, you can even uninstall certain parts of the app to save storage space as well.
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I think all of you have seen this.. Free program stats from around 25 Mb and keeps on going down even if you completely kill the processes. is there a tool which actually kills the resident dlls and other crap in memory.. Please advice.. i want to get out this habbit of soft reset after couple of days just to bring my memory back up where it belongs ;-)
Cheers
Zobie
Yeah, leaking memory is also one of the very few things I hate on my Wizard
I also would like to know if there is a Memory Cleaner that works like it should and not only kills open programs.
Had problem also. But the Internet Exploder was to blame. I had the history settings to 30 days. Which is the default. Back to 0 days and everything was hunkydory again.
I had problems with memory too. I had less than 1MB of storage memory left. So I went from a custom 2.17 ROM to Mr. Clean AKU 2.3 and changed the Registry setting for IE as follows:
; IE Cache to storage card
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders]
"Cache"="\\Storage Card\\Temporary Internet Files"
I've used this ROM for a week now with lots of programs. I have an average of 25 MB of storage free and the system is fast.
I have experienced no problems whatsoever.
If i don't even open the IE will it still be a memory hog?? i don't understand that.. I can understand that if i use IE all the time it will cause problems but if i don't even use it why woud my memory drop with time. Cans omeone please explain. I am not trying to offend neone here but just wante dto know. I can definitely try the reg settings. Please let me know.
Thanks
Zobie
Don't confuse ROM with RAM and storage with program mem. I think the topic starter referred to his RAM mem becoming less every day, resulting in low program mem and slow operations, needing a reset to clear the RAM and speed up the device.
The IE cache is stored in ROM and will only fill your storage but not slow down your device.
memory leaks are unfortunately a standard issue with PPC devices, I have always suffered from them on both WM 2003 SE and Wm5 devices. For me a soft reset now and then clears it up, but I find it an annoying "feature" as well.
I think like Windows its the In Memory DLLs which are the culprit. I wonder if there can be tools for detailed view of memory for Xp why not WM5.
BUMP !!!
zobie said:
I think like Windows its the In Memory DLLs which are the culprit. I wonder if there can be tools for detailed view of memory for Xp why not WM5.
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What are the "In Memory DLL's"? Never heard of such a thing.
The memory that slows your device is the addressable application memory, which is a total of 32 MB. You cannot change that or add to it.
Think of it as the same as the Virtual Memory (VM) in Windows XP on your desktop. Every application you open reserves a bit of this virtual memory. Some apps willingly give it up when they close - some that are not as well written do not. A soft reset when you see the device slowing is about all you can do.
My only other advice is that skinned applications - particularly Today screen plugins - use up this addressable memory very quickly. This includes Wisbar Advance2, PocketBreeze and iLauncher, and any weather program. If you are running these, you will always have similar issues. Find an acceptable mix of skinned apps that you must have, and try doing without the rest just to see how it treats your device's memory.
And if you want to see what processes are running, and how much memory they are using, try MemMaid by Dinarsoft or SK-Tools. Great programs.
Amen. I wonder how much is held in reserve by the system in case you start the app again? Real Windows has been doing that for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if micro Windows did it as well. Kind of reminds me of years ago when NT would report how it actually used memory and the end result was there was almost zero bytes "free" because all memory was always used for something, it didn't let anything sit around doing nothing. But since users didn't get it, MS wrote the taskman and so on to report something as "free memory" even though it wasn't really free. Finally, a lot of apps were designed to hide, not close, when you select the "X". If one of those task manager apps just blows the app away, does it bother cleaning up after the app which wasn't given the chance to clean up after itself by closing correctly?
markgamber said:
Amen. I wonder how much is held in reserve by the system in case you start the app again? Real Windows has been doing that for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if micro Windows did it as well. Kind of reminds me of years ago when NT would report how it actually used memory and the end result was there was almost zero bytes "free" because all memory was always used for something, it didn't let anything sit around doing nothing. But since users didn't get it, MS wrote the taskman and so on to report something as "free memory" even though it wasn't really free.
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Take a look here to learn about what you really see in task manager regarding memory/cpu usage.
http://tinyurl.com/l57w8
Finally, a lot of apps were designed to hide, not close, when you select the "X". If one of those task manager apps just blows the app away, does it bother cleaning up after the app which wasn't given the chance to clean up after itself by closing correctly?
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Depends on which task mamger you are using; some use the WMClose command instead of the Kill command. Big difference!
Tools Like Memmaid SK-Tools don't allow you to identify rouge elements in memory which nolonger have a parent process running. It is those elemts which eat up the memory. I have SPB tools to actually close the application but even then the memory keeps on falling. I guess there is no tool as of today like Taskmanager or even RAM Optimizer for PPC. A Tool like RAM Optimizer would check for the elements which are residing in RAM and are no longer being used. XDA developers can surely write something using the .NE Framework.
J-Mac said:
Depends on which task mamger you are using; some use the WMClose command instead of the Kill command. Big difference!
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Do you happen to know of a couple that use the WMClose command? I've used HandySwitcher most recently and MagicButton in the past, but have no idea which method(s) they use.
Thank you.
Geoffrey
There must 40 threads on this topics by now. I concur with J-Mac that today plugins are mostly to blame. I use Journal Bar and perform a soft reset roughly every other day. To help the situation I also use 2 programs which I find invaluable - The first is Smartskey which allows you close a program rather than minimise it (its a free download on this forum). The second is SK Tools Free up RAM application which works reasonably well but only delays the enevitable soft reset. It's effectiveness decreases the longer the device remains active.
I always have problems with WM5 memory management, which led me to experiment more on some free apps out there. This is a personal trick I just recently learned from all the AKU 3 versions that are coming out that I have been trying out and would like to share with everyone.
I will attach OXIOS Memory CAB file below my post, you need both Oxios Hibernate and Oxios Close Apps for this trick to work.
This is the theory for the increase of memory: basically what I wanted to happen is to only have 1 application running in the background no matter what. Thus, opening another app automatically closes the other app, even just pressing the OK button. Just like what a Palm device does with regards to application handling.
One draw back though, you are eliminating the ability of the WM5 device to run multiple applications at the same time.
OK enough of the explanations, here is what you have to do:
1st: Download the copy of OXIOS apps I provided.
2nd: Run the CAB file to install.
3rd: Go to Windows>Start Menu>Programs>Accessories.
4th: Copy the shortcuts for both Oxios Close Apps and Oxios Hibernate.
5th: Go to Windows>Start Up.
6th: Paste both Oxios Close Apps and Oxios Hibernate.
7th: Perform a soft reset.
Basically this would make WM5 behave like a palm device. You can now only open one application at one time, thus ensuring you have enough memory for your current application to run.
You don't even need to close any app anymore manually, since it is done automatically for you now.
There are some exceptions to this however and they are:
1: Contacts Application
2: MMS Application
3: Calendar Application
4: Phone Application
These 4 apps can be opened all at the same time without closing automatically, a good thing because you want them to work together when sending messages or files. Plus, you also want the phone ON at all times.
Good luck and let me know if you prefer this solution or suggestion.
hmmm...
I don't like the idea of not being in control of my device...
I've been happy doing it manually with Magic Button, and since yesterday, Wisbar Advance 2.
I think the extra tap is worth it!
that's great, maybe it's good for me, thanks for your cab file.
i tried these apps before, but not in this fashion. it never really fully recovered all the memory that it was trying to recover.
is there still a gradual memory leak, or does this manage to retain the full amount of memory after each closure.
i start with 29 - 30mb, it drops to about 18mb, so I reset it. does this stop the memory drop and reduction and totally reclaim the memory on closure of every app?
simon_darley said:
does this stop the memory drop and reduction and totally reclaim the memory on closure of every app?
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No, unfortunately, but based on using them on the latest AKU 3 ROMs, Oxios apps are getting better in recovering the lost memory.
thanks! will think about installing this. currently, im just using memmaid's reclaim ram plug in. Im not sure if it's just placebo but it works somehow..
I am using ipaq 6915 foe a 2 month and discover that program memory is decreasing from some reason.When I do soft reset it start like 32 mb free and after 4-5 day usage it going down until reach 25 mb free.At that point i can't start hp camera. bluetooth or other programs.Tested with no other program installed.I tried to discover with task manager to see what kind of proccess is running in program memory but task manager works only after soft reset when amount of memory going down it stack and only help a soft reset again.
Is there anyone who has a simillar problem?
Best regards
Experience the same issue of memory leak too, but thought it to be related to other installed software.
Will see to do a fresh install to see...
leak memory notwitstanding, with 25MB you should still be able to run camera, bluetooth and what not.
what software have you installed?
I found a explanation about not working hp camera,bluetooth etc it is problem when I change reginal settings.Those application works only under english US settings that is HP bug.But it still have leaking memory issue that hapend because again another bug.When I press "x" button or ok to close some window it is not really close it which cause process to stay hang out in memory.Another problem is that application phone multiple it self three time (unknown reason) which again cause memory leaking.No other application installed than HP default.I send all those info to HP but still no answer.
Thanks
That is the way m$ works on wm5. They think it's a good idea that hitting the X button only minimizes the software and doesn't close it.
Really stupid! and annoying...
There are free third party apps that allow you to fully close apps not just minimize. And I can see why you think this is "stupid" there's a perfectly good explanation for this: As apps open they use up a quantity of memory and when they close, this cache of mem doesn't always gets cleared out - this is most apparent with activesync, everytime that apps goes on it uses a small amount of mem that doesn't free up. So leaving some apps like contacts and whatnot running in background actually is better in some cases. But like I said it's an easy fix. Re: mem leak, I'd check what else you have running, some today plugins like the gauges and meters stuff really use up a lot of memory and also affects battery performance as it's always polling the device for status.
Hi,
Can anybody tell me if it is OK or not. When I'm starting the devcie I have something about 21Mb of free program memory. All addons I'd installed to SD memory card. After some period of work, typically 2 days, I see that the available memory reduces to 17Mb. Cleaning all cashes and unnecessary files, having no running applications is not helping a lot.
After reboot I again have 21Mb back.
Which component is stealing the memory?
I have a 20-year experience in programming of big computers, and such behaviour is typically considered as a serious bug.
This Herald is my first device with WM5 (and WM in general) and I don't know if it is the feature of WM5 of is connected with this certain device. Can anybody advice me?
Don't warry, that's OK. If you need, you can close all the applications (Start-Settings-System-Memory-Running applications-Stop all.)
And, additionaly, some system apps use memory.
In any case, a lot of memory is needed only for apps like GPS-navigators, databases etc
Bader said:
(Start-Settings-System-Memory-Running applications-Stop all.)
And, additionaly, some system apps use memory.
In any case, a lot of memory is needed only for apps like GPS-navigators, databases etc
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Of course, I stopped everything. It seems like some programmes are not freeing all the memory used and are leaving "orphans". It is necessary to reboot device from time to time, and this is a typical behaviour of "sick" operating system. After a month of continuous work you would be out of memory. I cannot consider OS be stable, if it is necessary to reboot each day. Well done again, Billy.
I have noticed the same thing on my 4350. Right now I have 16.74 avaible, I soft reset it last night
Believe it or not, this is typical of all windows mobile phones. For whatever reason, many programs that use memory will not release it when closed. I usually reboot my phone once a day to free up the memory. I have a couple of third party apps that I use that actually take the memory down to 5megs. Even after closing them, I only get 12-13 back.
Bad news. And this is not question of belief, it is a fact. I will consider moving to 'nix.
There's no working *nix builds available that'll run on the phone AFAIK.
RpR said:
There's no working *nix builds available that'll run on the phone AFAIK.
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Hey might mean that he is switching to devices that run linux out of the box.