Related
Looks like HTC has done it again and delivered a phone that should run crazy fast on paper BUT the actual performance is sub-par compared to other phones:
HTC Nexus One (FAILphone):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvzxZ8tOBcQ
HTC Magic and HTC Liquid Benchmark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O36LA6EhZg4
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
Do you work for Apple?
How does it do on PiBenchmark? That would provide more relevant results with its Snapdragon processor.
andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doesn't the liquid come with an underclocked snapdragon?
I have a Magic that is rooted and tweaked to all hell and have played with the nexus. There is no doubt that the Google phone out performs any other phone that HTC has released. Ive seen it first hand. Its very fast and can handle so many things going on at the same time it makes my tummy tickle.
You are an idiot. Get your panties out of a bunch because you are pissed at the price and that it has no AT&T 3G. Should we all be pissed that the Droid only works on Verizon? Should we all be pissed that the iPhone only has AT&T 3G? The Nexus One is designed to be on T-Mobile. Sure, it will technically work on any GSM provider, but that isn't what it was intended to do. Google must have some deal with T-Mobile since they offers the most android phones.
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU
staulkor said:
And about the performance, that only shows video performance, and we dont know for sure what the N1 and A1 have in terms of a GPU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought neocore tested the graphics chip with 3d benchamarking?
andythefan said:
I don't think that Neocore benchmarks the entire system, maybe more on the graphics chip. I don't know any specifics on the N1's graphics capabilities, but the 1 ghz snapdragon cpu is a definite boost from its predecessors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?
What are you, 15 years old? Get off of mommy's computer and stop *****ing because you can't use the N1 on your network and get 3G.
Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.
Maedhros said:
Im guessing the benchmark isnt accurate. It goes beyond common senese that the fps are the same as the magic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually ... it goes nicely with HTC's track record of under-performing hardware.
We have too many variables that makes comparing these results difficult. The HTC Magic and Liquid are running 1.6, while the Nexus is running 2.1. There are dramatically different levels of overhead on different Android system versions. There could be way more overhead on Android 2.1 than on 1.6. Additionally, you forgot to mention that the Nexus One is running at a resolution 2.5 times that of the HTC Magic.
Just because you're not going to buy the Nexus (because you recently purchased another handset and are trying to justify your purchase, or because it doesn't support your carrier's 3G frequencies, or otherwise) doesn't mean you are obliged to spam these forums with "OMG THIS PHONE IS FAIL"
the resolution used on the n1 is far higher than on the older devices remember
coolVariable said:
It's called system on a chip.
and the telling comparison is the Acer Liquid with its ~750MHz Snapdragon CPU (underclocked) vs. the Nexus One with its 1GHz Snapdragon CPU.
Looks like HTC screwed up again.
Ohhh. The other posters are pissed because their Messiah phone is a big FAIL?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only FAIL here are your posts. You sound like a Droid owner, pissed that your phone is about to lose top dog status. Just crawl back into your parents basement, fire up your xbox, and shoot some 12 year olds. It will help you get over the fact that you are a huge FAIL.
lol @semantics now thats funny man
I have had this phone for three weeks now and one thing its not is SLOW. Its way faster than my 3GS and my Mytouch.
I got 27.4 FPS on my G1.
I'm pretty sure the N1 isn't slower then the G1. That would be stupid.
I don't give a damn, I'm buying this joint day 1!! LOL
my theory:
1. Neocore is designed to work with android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1
2. The Liquid A1 has the same processor (albeit underclocked) and the same screen resolution as the N1 so you would expect them to perform similarliy. They dont perfrom the same so you must look at the differences between the phones. The biggest to me is the fact that the Liquid A1 has Android 1.6 and Open GL ES 1.1, the sweet spot for Neocore.
3. The N1 had Android 2.1 and Open GL ES 2.0, specs that are not supported by Neocore. How can Neocore accurately test the N1 when it does not support its specifications? The slowness is not due to poor hardware, rather it is due to old software trying to run on the latest hardware.
I know this might be a touchy topic to start, but I was seriously considering the Milestone 2 before the G-2 was announced. And when I heard that the G2 wasn't even 1GHz, I was pretty set on the Milestone 2. Then the benchmarks came out: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/09/graphics-benchmark-for-g2-shows-it-should-be-blazin/
so now I am super confused.
Milestone 2 - Pros:
1GHz processor (if the Milestone can be OCed to 1GHz, who know what the Milestone2 could be OCed to?!)
Umm....that's all I think
Milestone 2 - Cons:
Locked bootloader (what does this mean exactly? no custom ROMs?)
MotoBLOATware (means slower Android updates)
Same camera as Milestone 1 (seriously...)
Motorola
G-2 - Pros:
HTC
Stock Android
Faster Android updates
Supposed to be good for Android Gingerbread as well
No locked bootloader (more custom ROMs?)
Not Motorola
G-2 - Cons:
800MHz Processor
Didn't perform as well as Droid 2 in stock benchmark tests
Less internal memory (4Gb vs 8Gb) - not a big deal I guess
Hinge design probably means it's easier to break
Does anybody think that the development for the G-2 would be larger than the Milestone 2? Because that would be a huge Pro for the G-2. The G-1 development has lasted for years, and the user base is huge...so I am just going to assume that it would be similar for the G-2.
I'm not going to mention aethetics, because this is very subjective so no point arguing on that front.
So here's my question: Which one should I get?!
Hmm, tough one really.
HTC Camera's are not much better than the ones motorola sticks in them to be honest! The droid has crapware on it and the HTC comes with stock sense.
It seems the processor performance is near identical, in real world application use atleast so thats a non-issue i.e. when one beomces outdated, so will the other.
In terms of mod community, the HTC phone is likely to get much more support on this website, simply because the majority of people here are HTC users or past HTC users.
The Milestone seems a bit more manly, rough and the HTC looks more refined IMHO.
Personally, I'd go the G2 if I wanted as much modding as possible. HTC has a much more open policy on the topic and no locked bootloaders (efuse etc).
At the end of the day, its your decision
Have a play with both phones and pick the one you feel looks better. A good question to ask is:
I know they both look nice now, but which one will look worse for wear (paint peeling, scratching etc)
yeah, I was leaning a little more towards the G-2 due to the massive potential of modding/custom ROMs available. And i'm also quite sure that the G-2 will become the new platform for development, much like the G-1 was.
The 800MHz still bugs me though...considering that Qualcomm has new chipsets that are supposed to be able to go up to 1.2/3GHz whilst also running a GPU chip. I wouldn't wait until dual-cores because apparently that won't happen until next year (probably late next year).
HTC are supposed to be doing a pretty major announcement in London on the 15th September (so we'll hear about it on the 16th)...so hopefully that might shed some light on it. Of course, if the G-2 is the only QWERTY option, then that would probably limit our choices.
...if only they had made that a 1GHz processor...
I wouldnt rate the 1ghz feature that highly. Perhaps 800 mhz is an underclock to enhance battery life. After all, the benchmarks say performance is on par with the top phones.
99.9999% guaranteed that you'll be able to overclock the G2 to at least 1ghz
IMO the onlything that the M2 has over the G2 is how far u can OC the processor. those A8's can go far.
I dunno. clock speed is overrated. you don't know what performs better in the real world until you see some benchmarks.
That's true. Apperantly I read that a 800mhz Droid 1 performs on par with a n1. The a8 can be oc to all hell.
I definately am a fan of TI chips. They are mighty strong and it always seemed that they always had a leg up on qualcomm. I hope qualcomm stomps everyone with some massive processor that'll make the hummingbird cry
The g2 is under-clocked according to the press release.
Mylenthes said:
The g2 is under-clocked according to the press release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I heard. At the end of the day a underclocked processor that runs as fast as a snapdragon and wastes less power is a win in my book!
I have read that the ARM procs are better with GPUs and for overclocking - just look at the Milestone 1. The Droid 2 was still benchmarked as the best (but only just over the G-2) and it's potential for OCing was what swayed me that way.
But now that these new Qualcomm chipsets have a separate GPU that seem to be able to compete with the best in benchmarking - it's hard to say.
If the G-2 can be OCed, then that would be awesome...but then, the Milestone 2 is also about 99% sure to be OCed...as I'm sure previous Milestone 1 owners will be screaming for it as soon as they get their hands on the new one.
skulk3r said:
I have read that the ARM procs are better with GPUs and for overclocking - just look at the Milestone 1. The Droid 2 was still benchmarked as the best (but only just over the G-2) and it's potential for OCing was what swayed me that way.
But now that these new Qualcomm chipsets have a separate GPU that seem to be able to compete with the best in benchmarking - it's hard to say.
If the G-2 can be OCed, then that would be awesome...but then, the Milestone 2 is also about 99% sure to be OCed...as I'm sure previous Milestone 1 owners will be screaming for it as soon as they get their hands on the new one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im confused. I thought the nexus had a seperate gpu?
sheek360 said:
Im confused. I thought the nexus had a seperate gpu?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as far as I know, it does, but either the GPU isn't fully utilized in the use of Android or it's just a underpowered - just see the benchmarking results on the previous page that I posted, the Milestone 2 and G-2 smoke the N1 (which is expected, since the N1 is much older)
skulk3r said:
I know this might be a touchy topic to start, but I was seriously considering the Milestone 2 before the G-2 was announced. And when I heard that the G2 wasn't even 1GHz, I was pretty set on the Milestone 2. Then the benchmarks came out: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/09/graphics-benchmark-for-g2-shows-it-should-be-blazin/
so now I am super confused.
Milestone 2 - Pros:
1GHz processor (if the Milestone can be OCed to 1GHz, who know what the Milestone2 could be OCed to?!)
Umm....that's all I think
Milestone 2 - Cons:
Locked bootloader (what does this mean exactly? no custom ROMs?)
MotoBLOATware (means slower Android updates)
Same camera as Milestone 1 (seriously...)
Motorola
G-2 - Pros:
HTC
Stock Android
Faster Android updates
Supposed to be good for Android Gingerbread as well
No locked bootloader (more custom ROMs?)
Not Motorola
G-2 - Cons:
800MHz Processor
Didn't perform as well as Droid 2 in stock benchmark tests
Less internal memory (4Gb vs 8Gb) - not a big deal I guess
Hinge design probably means it's easier to break
Does anybody think that the development for the G-2 would be larger than the Milestone 2? Because that would be a huge Pro for the G-2. The G-1 development has lasted for years, and the user base is huge...so I am just going to assume that it would be similar for the G-2.
I'm not going to mention aethetics, because this is very subjective so no point arguing on that front.
So here's my question: Which one should I get?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well If I made the list I would make it more like this:
Droid 2
Pro's:
-More high res screen (854*480 vs 800*480, both on a 3.7" screen)
-8 Gigs internal storage (4 gb more than G2)
-1 Ghz TI 45nm processor (likely to overclock fairly well)
-1 oz lighter
Con's:
-MotoCRAP software (look at the scrolling on any phone with blur from the cliq to droid x and tell me it doesn't feel slow)
-keyboard lacking comparing it to the G2
-locked bootloader (harder to develop roms for, root still possible though)
-CDMA (yeah it sucks.... that's why noone outside the US uses it...)
G2
Pro's:
-Better screen (S-TFT lcd vs regular lcd on the droid/2; brighter, more contrast, better power consumption)
-720P camcoder at 30FPS
-Adreno205 GPU(4X better graphics than previous snapdragons)
-800 Mhz MSM7230 45nm (this shows it was designed to run at 1 Ghz, but underclocked to save battery. Similar to the MSM7201A on the G1, designed for 528 Mhz but only runs at 385 Mhz unmodified; should at least be overclockable to 1.13 or more)
-better keyboard (WWW.\.COM BUTTON? HELL YEAH!)
-HSPA+ (who doesn't want 14 MB/s DL?)
-GSM (gsm is always better....)
-likely to receive updates rapidly (no promises though, look at the 3 months it took motorola to update to 2.1 on their "google experience" device)
-New sturdy Z-hinge design
Con's:
-ummm.......
Yeah so what if the droid 2 gets an extra 3 frames (58 vs 61)... Your eye can only detect 50FPS unless you're a combat pilot or a sniper with trained eyesight. Besides that both phone's have pretty identical specs, including 512 mb ram, 2.2, 10 hrs talk time, etc. My vote is definately towards the g2, but don't get me wrong both are beasts of a phone. Also I wouldn't expect to see any dual core's until maybe next summer. Think about it: Qualcomm released the original snapdragon in Nov 2008, but it wasn't until Dec 2009 that a phone implemented it (LG Expo). The dual core qualcomm chips come out next month, so it should be 6 months-a year before they come out.
mejorguille said:
Well If I made the list I would make it more like this:
Droid 2
Pro's:
-More high res screen (854*480 vs 800*480, both on a 3.7" screen)
-8 Gigs internal storage (4 gb more than G2)
-1 Ghz TI 45nm processor (likely to overclock fairly well)
-1 oz lighter
Con's:
-MotoCRAP software (look at the scrolling on any phone with blur from the cliq to droid x and tell me it doesn't feel slow)
-keyboard lacking comparing it to the G2
-locked bootloader (harder to develop roms for, root still possible though)
-CDMA (yeah it sucks.... that's why noone outside the US uses it...)
G2
Pro's:
-Better screen (S-TFT lcd vs regular lcd on the droid/2; brighter, more contrast, better power consumption)
-720P camcoder at 30FPS
-Adreno205 GPU(4X better graphics than previous snapdragons)
-800 Mhz MSM7230 45nm (this shows it was designed to run at 1 Ghz, but underclocked to save battery. Similar to the MSM7201A on the G1, designed for 528 Mhz but only runs at 385 Mhz unmodified; should at least be overclockable to 1.13 or more)
-better keyboard (WWW.\.COM BUTTON? HELL YEAH!)
-HSPA+ (who doesn't want 14 MB/s DL?)
-GSM (gsm is always better....)
-likely to receive updates rapidly (no promises though, look at the 3 months it took motorola to update to 2.1 on their "google experience" device)
-New sturdy Z-hinge design
Con's:
-ummm.......
Yeah so what if the droid 2 gets an extra 3 frames (58 vs 61)... Your eye can only detect 50FPS unless you're a combat pilot or a sniper with trained eyesight. Besides that both phone's have pretty identical specs, including 512 mb ram, 2.2, 10 hrs talk time, etc. My vote is definately towards the g2, but don't get me wrong both are beasts of a phone. Also I wouldn't expect to see any dual core's until maybe next summer. Think about it: Qualcomm released the original snapdragon in Nov 2008, but it wasn't until Dec 2009 that a phone implemented it (LG Expo). The dual core qualcomm chips come out next month, so it should be 6 months-a year before they come out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well technically the Milestone 2 is a GSM device, not CDMA, but the other points are quite good.
However, don't forget that the Milestone 2 can also OC...so the two are comparable in that sense.
Didn't I read somewhere that Android doesn't yet support hardware acceleration for it's UI? Meaning that that spiffy new GPU will only get used in games/video, etc? I'm no expert on this - perhaps someone could chip in and explain...
I too am facing the same decision soon. I love my Desire, but I will never buy a keyboardless phone again, and will chop it in for one of these two as soon as I can.
I was leaning more towards the Milestone 2 as it looks badass in my opinion, and there is no major difference in the specs. That was til I read up about locked bootloaders, and the fact that Milestone 1 owners are still on Android 2.1 and Motorola just doesn't give a sh*t about the numerous bugs the phone has.
Just a quick search around forums/Facebook Motorola Europe page etc, shows how unhappy Milestone 1 owners are with Motorola. Page after page of people saying "I will NEVER buy Motorola again" and literally begging Motorola to unlock the bootloader before abandoning the phone (all met with a deafening silence from Motorola) does turn me off of the Milestone 2. Motorola won't fix the phone and won't give their customers the tools to fix it themselves, so as far as I'm concerned I'm not going to spend £400-500 to put myself in that same position with the Milestone 2.
On the HTC side of things, they do make attempts to stop people modding their phones, but have not yet gone as far as locking the bootloader, and every HTC phone has been compromised. I fully expect this to be the case with the G2/Desire Z (Desire Z - what a sh*t name!), and the phone WILL get a lot of dev support, no question.
Ultimately, I believe there is no choice for me: pain with Motorola, or fun with HTC/XDA devs!
I'm still not sure about the hinge action, nor do I like the looks of the G2 particularly, I think it's going to turn out to be a bit of a fat chunker! Still, I go for personality and functionality in my phone rather than looks, otherwise I'd have an iPhone! It's also a crying shame that HTC went with a 4 row rather than 5 row keyboard.... And one final request please HTC - make sure that screen is full multitouch please! Oh, and I have heard this bad-boy is going to have stock Android with HTC Sense widgets - that's all well and good, but what I'm interested in is the Sense Dialer. And the Sense browser text selection please - I want that available everywhere on the phone, please!
Uh oh - just read the G2 has just 1300maH battery.
HTC, what is this twattery? I don't want to go backwards with battery size! Yes I know, more efficient processor, blah blah, lower clock speed, yadda yadda - but I don't give a monkey's!
A smaller battery in a bigger handset than the original Desire is not good enough in my mind. The G2 is going to be a brick anyway - why not add 5mm to the length and give us an extra 200-300maH? Or perhaps if you'd used a more standard slider action then you could've fitted a beefier battery in there :-(
setspeed said:
Didn't I read somewhere that Android doesn't yet support hardware acceleration for it's UI? Meaning that that spiffy new GPU will only get used in games/video, etc? I'm no expert on this - perhaps someone could chip in and explain...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true, but the next version Android Gingerbread adds it, which is where handsets with weaker gpus will begin to struggle. Running AOSP means that it will get updates at the same speed of the Nexus one.
However, the Clove spec for the Desire Z has it as a Sense device. This is backed up with the earlier screenshot of the Desire Z with the default sense wallpaper, and the name (why would they give it Desire branding if it didn't have Sense?). So there's a chance they'll put in the 8X55 which is the 1ghz of the same processor, but doesn't support HSPA+ (which isn't in the UK). So we'd gain 200mhz in return for Sense and an uglier handset colour scheme.
UK HTC event is tomorrow, so we should find out then.
Adreno205 GPU, 4X better graphics than previous snapdragons.
I think it's the only one that has hardware accelerated Adobe Flash support.
I remember seeing Milestone 2 and other android phones reviews, reviewers said phone would literally crawl when browsing flash enabled websites.
So maybe that feature will make a big difference?
I think I've decided: G2
setspeed said:
Didn't I read somewhere that Android doesn't yet support hardware acceleration for it's UI? Meaning that that spiffy new GPU will only get used in games/video, etc? I'm no expert on this - perhaps someone could chip in and explain...
I too am facing the same decision soon. I love my Desire, but I will never buy a keyboardless phone again, and will chop it in for one of these two as soon as I can.
I was leaning more towards the Milestone 2 as it looks badass in my opinion, and there is no major difference in the specs. That was til I read up about locked bootloaders, and the fact that Milestone 1 owners are still on Android 2.1 and Motorola just doesn't give a sh*t about the numerous bugs the phone has.
Just a quick search around forums/Facebook Motorola Europe page etc, shows how unhappy Milestone 1 owners are with Motorola. Page after page of people saying "I will NEVER buy Motorola again" and literally begging Motorola to unlock the bootloader before abandoning the phone (all met with a deafening silence from Motorola) does turn me off of the Milestone 2. Motorola won't fix the phone and won't give their customers the tools to fix it themselves, so as far as I'm concerned I'm not going to spend £400-500 to put myself in that same position with the Milestone 2.
On the HTC side of things, they do make attempts to stop people modding their phones, but have not yet gone as far as locking the bootloader, and every HTC phone has been compromised. I fully expect this to be the case with the G2/Desire Z (Desire Z - what a sh*t name!), and the phone WILL get a lot of dev support, no question.
Ultimately, I believe there is no choice for me: pain with Motorola, or fun with HTC/XDA devs!
I'm still not sure about the hinge action, nor do I like the looks of the G2 particularly, I think it's going to turn out to be a bit of a fat chunker! Still, I go for personality and functionality in my phone rather than looks, otherwise I'd have an iPhone! It's also a crying shame that HTC went with a 4 row rather than 5 row keyboard.... And one final request please HTC - make sure that screen is full multitouch please! Oh, and I have heard this bad-boy is going to have stock Android with HTC Sense widgets - that's all well and good, but what I'm interested in is the Sense Dialer. And the Sense browser text selection please - I want that available everywhere on the phone, please!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
waiting to see what new things HTC has "dreamt" up for their announcement of the 15th (in London)...but I don't expect things to be any different than what we know now.
yes, the battery is a crying shame, but tbh I charge my phone every night ever since I got my blackstone...and I also have a car charger...but it would still be nice to have a phone that would last more than 2 days.
I'm not sure I fully understand the bootloader stuff...I've seen youtube videos of people running something called a "Bugless Beast" ROM on an OCed Milestone 1....but I agree, Motorola are pretty bad with customer service and post-sales support. HTC, on the other hand, are pretty happy to turn a blind eye to the modding community - as all Android manufacturers should..since Android is technically an opensource platform.
Oh..also...I don't really care about the name Desire Z, lol.....just a name. They could call it "The Loser Phone" and I'd still probably get it
According to Microsoft QSD8250 is the chipset. Now how bad is it? I see people are saying it'd be better than HD2 since it'll have the perfect drivers from MS, but still wonder how this compare with the phone I am planning to get, Captivate, or an iPhone 4.
What prompted MS to choose this over so many newer (and possibly better) options?
rexian said:
What prompted MS to choose this over so many newer (and possibly better) options?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess: WP7 has been in development for quite some time, so at the start of development they choose the top processor that was available. But I think that this forum focuses to much on the processor and specifications, because in the end, the whole package must be convincing and that includes the operating system that has been optimized for this processor.
Furthermore, the current specifications will be the lowest common denominator for quiet some time (perhaps until WP8) and all apps will be optimized to run satisfactory on this specification (AFAIK the 20 second start-up rule for apps will be measured with the current specification). Newer processors may speed some things up, but the current hardware will be the target platform...
The development must have started before this chipset was launched, but you are right - this was most likely the target platform.
There are not many 3D games available though, the basic working will be fluid I know when I check at the store in few days. My worries are about the 3D games that will be launched later. If the experience with those is not as good as other platforms, MS will be in trouble. Better hardware will fix the issue in future but the reputation will be ruined and be stuck for a while.
Captivate is more powerful, mainly due to its GPU being about 4 times more powerful than the qsd8250s adreno200 gpu. Though, all WP7 devices will have better looking games since Captivate runs android... And everyone knows android games look crap, no matter how how powerful the hardware is (due to devs having to make their devices run on low end hardware to get more sales)
The IP4 is a better comparison because it's hardware and software have been fully engineered to run along each other, very much like WP7 devices. While it does have a more powerful GPU compared with the QSD, there wouldn't be much difference; the adreno 200 pushes about 22million triangles per sec, where as the sgx535 pushes about 28million triangles per sec. Whether developers even use all those polygons, I'm not sure I've seen.
Though epic citadel on iOS as well as this upcoming game called Aralon sure looks good.
Aralon link: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/10/oh-man-aralon-for-ios-is-gonna-be-good/
Thanks Cruzer. Now it makes sense. 22 mil vs 28 mil is not a big difference. Were they running at the same clock-speed? I hear A4 processor in iPhone 4 runs at ~800MHz, so may be they both perform in a similar manner.
Not sure how much the GPU is affected by the CPU. I think it's more to do about the speed of the actual GPU, but don't take me on that quote lol.
I have a Captivate and an iPhone 4. Im getting rid of both of them to get a HD7 or Focus. The iphone works flawlessly and isnt buggy in the slightest bit, the captivate is very choppy and i couldnt take it after a while with the lagging even after i upgraded to froyo. I would go with wp7 to be different and because it looks fun even if it uses an older processor. The hummingbird and A4 are both top of the line and its going to be hard to compete especially with each having a different os.
Writing this from my iphone 4
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
johcos said:
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After looking into it for a while, I was focusing on what makes the Nexus One so much better than the other phones. On the chip level, I didn’t see it. Then it dawned on me to look at what Google had to say on the matter. Well, it was there in black and white. In their 20 May 2010 Developer’s Blog entry (http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/05/android-22-and-developers-goodies.html) they say that people could see a 2-5x speed increase. I think it is pointed out in an entry later in the blog dealing with NDK, which I initially missed: “ARM Advanced SIMD (a.k.a. NEON) instruction support The NEON instruction set extension can be used to perform scalar computations on integers and floating points. However, it is an optional CPU feature and will not be supported by all Android ARMv7-A based devices. The NDK includes a tiny library named “cpufeatures” that can be used by native code to test at runtime the features supported by the device’s target CPU.”
So, I guess this means that NEON is the difference. If your phone’s CPU has it and it’s enabled for JIT, you can expect higher Linpack numbers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.greenecomputing.com/2010...ack-scores-so-mucher-higher-than-on-my-phone/
Now stop making topics like this.
the difference you notice is software related
If you want a real test, run a hd video on both phones, or a psx emulator and see if the nexus one is 5x faster... it is the same if not slower then the sgs
Well, SGS got hardware h264 decoding acceleration. Also, maybe you forget, but:
he Hummingbird comes with 32KB each of data and instruction caches, an L2 cache, the size of which can be customized, and an ARM® NEON™ multi-media extension.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SAMSUNG and Intrinsity Jointly Develop the World's Fastest ARM® Cortex™-A8 Processor Based Mobile Core in 45 Nanometer Low Power Process
Advanced SIMD (NEON)
The Advanced SIMD extension, marketed as NEON technology, is a combined 64- and 128-bit single instruction multiple data (SIMD) instruction set that provides standardized acceleration for media and signal processing applications. NEON can execute MP3 audio decoding on CPUs running at 10 MHz and can run the GSM AMR (Adaptive Multi-Rate) speech codec at no more than 13 MHz. It features a comprehensive instruction set, separate register files and independent execution hardware. NEON supports 8-, 16-, 32- and 64-bit integer and single-precision (32-bit) floating-point data and operates in SIMD operations for handling audio and video processing as well as graphics and gaming processing. In NEON, the SIMD supports up to 16 operations at the same time. The NEON hardware shares the same floating-point registers as used in VFP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source: wiki
This means Hummingbirds are equipped with NEON. Why its not so effective/used in Quadrant/Linpack? My guess they (these benchmarks) are not compiled/optimised for Hummingbirds, just for Snapdragons.
I came from owning an iPhone and playing lots of games on it. I bought the SGS purely for the gaming performance of the Hummingbird processor.
Having seen the difference in game quality between the HTC Desire and the SGS, I know I made the right decision. Benchmarks don't mean anything.
As long as the device can run apps, games, multimedia smoothly, I dont care much about those benchmarkers, maybe they were designed and/or optimized for snapdragon prior to hummingbird.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
i bet you anything he actually doesn't have a sgs...lol
jealousy maybe just a troll, ignore
In terms of overall smoothness (everything, not just games) the SGS is vastly superior to any other android phone I've seen (Desire included).
Darkimmortal said:
everything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? You have to go all out and use the word "everything" when the phone can get major lockups?
"most things" sounds like a more reasonable and believable choice of words...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
android53 said:
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this. i played king of fighters on my hd2 and it was laggy as hell
smooth as butter on my galaxy s
to be honest. the day psx4droid use gpu. galaxy owners are in heaven.
Its unlikely it ever will though, even modern pc emulators barely use the gpu, only for anti aliasing
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Snapdragon/Hummingbird scores in glbenchmark (nexus one/galaxy s):
integer: 20661/27624
float: 11173/7968
I guess glbenchmark uses native C code (hopefully with armv7 optimization), so the JIT compiler has no effect. From the scores it seems that the floating point unit in Snapdragon is faster - but most of the time it is not used (except video & games).
Anyway, a benchmark to measure the same algorithm in both native & java code with scalar & vector instructions would be great...
t1mman said:
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he's not whining, well, not in the first place and i don't see any harm on that i think he's trying to UNDERSTAND reasons behind numbers and daily use with help of other people, so am i. if i had to sell phones for every problem i encounter i will problaby be without (smart)phone at this time
i don't care about benchmarks, but if you think that sgs is smoother than hd2 xda optimized (with wm 6.5 or android 2.2) you obviously never owned an hd2 i'm not talking about games, like johcos says galaxy s performance is not questionable. but android is not all about game. anyway, i don't think hardware is the problem here, sure sgs is superior in many aspects, we know that, regardless benchmarks (even if it seems here that only benchmarks where sgs win are trustworthy, others are not good, not optimized, not realistic, meaningless for real life performance etc.). with a little help from samsung and this community sgs will soon outperform (in real usage) all snapdragon phones. i hope
...when average men talk about the high tech w/o knowledge, boo
ll_l_x_l_ll said:
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly couldn't agree anymore, even with all the problems the SGS has. The screen+hardware combination is just too overwhelming for me to swap the phone for something else.
Hello guys . I have been using my S2 for more than a year but never felt of overclocking it where as in many HTC phones thread on XDA i have seen people talking of overclocking their phone . Like Sensation many of its custom rom thread has written 1.7 or 1.5 Ghz oced . I have been noticing it for more than a year when I got S2 while at the S2 threads i rarely see people talk about Overclocking. What's your take on it ?
2 words - Exynos and Mali
Beats the hell out of competition without any sort of OC
Sent from the Matrix
anshmiester78900 said:
Hello guys . I have been using my S2 for more than a year but never felt of overclocking it where as in many HTC phones thread on XDA i have seen people talking of overclocking their phone . Like Sensation many of its custom rom thread has written 1.7 or 1.5 Ghz oced . I have been noticing it for more than a year when I got S2 while at the S2 threads i rarely see people talk about Overclocking. What's your take on it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup there is no need to OC. It will only consume more battery and heat up the phone. S2 has a powerful processor
anshmiester78900 said:
Hello guys . I have been using my S2 for more than a year but never felt of overclocking it where as in many HTC phones thread on XDA i have seen people talking of overclocking their phone . Like Sensation many of its custom rom thread has written 1.7 or 1.5 Ghz oced . I have been noticing it for more than a year when I got S2 while at the S2 threads i rarely see people talk about Overclocking. What's your take on it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've owned both S2 n Sensation I had Sensation XE so it was clocked at 1.5Ghz by default. That's why it was recommended and now 1.7Ghz coz One S Indians version has same chipset but clocked at 1.7Ghz. So that chipset can be OC'd without damaging. And on S2, everything's so smooth even with broken stuff on exynos that one simply does not talk about OCing
Yup, S2 isn't necessary to OC. Never felt like it's working too slow, even thinked about selling my S2 and buy worse LG G2x and save money, but saving it the other way, not buying new phone and holding S2 for longer. Really I don't get why people need to use quadcore CPU when IMO dual is efficient enough. I always flash different kernel/software just to save battery, even was working on CPU with UC to 600MHz per core.
HTC One S interests me most, but I don't have time for any deals and swapping. And this need to be said: Sense is awesome UI and all developers working on HTC phones, because they always try to port latest version unlike S2, which had very low interest in getting JB from S3 port or w/e other softwares except miui, aosp etc. (haven't said features ported like multiwindow now or note gallery are for nothing, they are also cool and thank for this). Liked it more than TW, but just thinking now, TW is user-friendly and not like first impression when it sucked for me, got familiar with it pretty fast.
I had previously Galaxy ACE which was clocked at 800 MHz which i felt was not efficient in running ICS ROMS so overclocked it to 900Mhz.. symptoms like overheating started to crawl in.. But in S2 i never OC'd I never felt it as slow sloth.. In jelly Bean i feel it lags sometimes, ICS and GB never lagged.. I dunno abt HTC but they made ICS run flawlessly on Desire C with 600Mhz proc!! So then i thought OC s for gamers, for normal calls, msging i think OC is useless...
rakeshishere said:
2 words - Exynos and Mali
Beats the hell out of competition without any sort of OC
Sent from the Matrix
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes true that
pasanjay said:
yup there is no need to OC. It will only consume more battery and heat up the phone. S2 has a powerful processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes even i never felt like over clocking , a friend of mine has HTC Sensation and its always oced to 1.7
mesaj said:
Yup, S2 isn't necessary to OC. Never felt like it's working too slow, even thinked about selling my S2 and buy worse LG G2x and save money, but saving it the other way, not buying new phone and holding S2 for longer. Really I don't get why people need to use quadcore CPU when IMO dual is efficient enough. I always flash different kernel/software just to save battery, even was working on CPU with UC to 600MHz per core.
HTC One S interests me most, but I don't have time for any deals and swapping. And this need to be said: Sense is awesome UI and all developers working on HTC phones, because they always try to port latest version unlike S2, which had very low interest in getting JB from S3 port or w/e other softwares except miui, aosp etc. (haven't said features ported like multiwindow now or note gallery are for nothing, they are also cool and thank for this). Liked it more than TW, but just thinking now, TW is user-friendly and not like first impression when it sucked for me, got familiar with it pretty fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes totally agreed
Prashanthme said:
I had previously Galaxy ACE which was clocked at 800 MHz which i felt was not efficient in running ICS ROMS so overclocked it to 900Mhz.. symptoms like overheating started to crawl in.. But in S2 i never OC'd I never felt it as slow sloth.. In jelly Bean i feel it lags sometimes, ICS and GB never lagged.. I dunno abt HTC but they made ICS run flawlessly on Desire C with 600Mhz proc!! So then i thought OC s for gamers, for normal calls, msging i think OC is useless...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm I think even after more than a year (actually its going to be 2 years) S2 is still performing great with no lags and problems and the Exynous 4 is doing a great job .!
Some quick points here.
The CPUs used in the SGS2 (Cortex-A9) and the HTC Sensation (Qualcomm Scorpion) are vastly different beasts. One of the most consistent ways to measure a CPU's performance is in DMIPS. An A9 puts out 2.5DMIPS per clock cycle. A Scorpion puts out 2.1. So, at 1.2ghz, an A9 puts out 3000 DMIPS per core. At 1.5ghz, a Scorpion puts out 3150 DMIPS per core. However, A9 does true symetrical multi-processing whereas Scorpion does not. This means that in single threaded applications, a 1.5ghz Scorpion will be about 5% faster than a 1.2ghz A9. But, in multi-threaded applications, or in multi-tasking environments, the A9-based SOC (Exynos) pulls ahead. That's why HTC users tend to need to overclock more often. They were behind right off the bat and needed to compensate. In most cases, the A9-based Exynos at 1.2ghz is as fast as or faster than the 1.5ghz Scorpion-based Snapdragon S3. And, that doesn't even count the GPUs in these phones.
Also, someone mentioned that HTC has better developer support, having developers port newer versions of Sense to older phones. There's a reason for that. When Samsung updates their older phones, they include many/most aspects of the newer TW UI (such as the SGS2 now getting the Nature UX). HTC rarely does this, so WE have to do it for them. Hell, my old Droid Incredible had Sense 1.0. The slower Desire Z (and variants, like the Merge) got Sense 2.0, but we didn't. The next lineup of phones got Sense 3.0, and we didn't. Our Android 2.3 looked and acted the same as 2.2 and even 2.1, just smoother. So the community has to backport these features. With Samsung, they do it for us in many cases.
oc is not worth it, with this kind of powerful chipset. i even tried it (1,5 ghz) but i only realized a higher battery drain and just minor speed improvements.
jaykresge said:
Some quick points here.
The CPUs used in the SGS2 (Cortex-A9) and the HTC Sensation (Qualcomm Scorpion) are vastly different beasts. One of the most consistent ways to measure a CPU's performance is in DMIPS. An A9 puts out 2.5DMIPS per clock cycle. A Scorpion puts out 2.1. So, at 1.2ghz, an A9 puts out 3000 DMIPS per core. At 1.5ghz, a Scorpion puts out 3150 DMIPS per core. However, A9 does true symetrical multi-processing whereas Scorpion does not. This means that in single threaded applications, a 1.5ghz Scorpion will be about 5% faster than a 1.2ghz A9. But, in multi-threaded applications, or in multi-tasking environments, the A9-based SOC (Exynos) pulls ahead. That's why HTC users tend to need to overclock more often. They were behind right off the bat and needed to compensate. In most cases, the A9-based Exynos at 1.2ghz is as fast as or faster than the 1.5ghz Scorpion-based Snapdragon S3. And, that doesn't even count the GPUs in these phones.
Also, someone mentioned that HTC has better developer support, having developers port newer versions of Sense to older phones. There's a reason for that. When Samsung updates their older phones, they include many/most aspects of the newer TW UI (such as the SGS2 now getting the Nature UX). HTC rarely does this, so WE have to do it for them. Hell, my old Droid Incredible had Sense 1.0. The slower Desire Z (and variants, like the Merge) got Sense 2.0, but we didn't. The next lineup of phones got Sense 3.0, and we didn't. Our Android 2.3 looked and acted the same as 2.2 and even 2.1, just smoother. So the community has to backport these features. With Samsung, they do it for us in many cases.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well said mate .
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
chomsky101 said:
oc is not worth it, with this kind of powerful chipset. i even tried it (1,5 ghz) but i only realized a higher battery drain and just minor speed improvements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you bro .
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium