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Anyone know what this about?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/
link to the xda thread about it?
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
yakky said:
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
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Maybe you should file a class-action suit against the video driver class-action people for taking HTC's time and attention away from fixing real problems...
Actually the mogul does have video playback issues with constant stutering and pausing. From what I've heard from 6700 users video playback is much much smoother (the way it should be). I don't know if it calls for a law suit but hey at least they got htc's attention and now their releasing new drivers that will supposedly fix the video playback issues.
bakntyme said:
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
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Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
SINNN said:
Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
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Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
bakntyme said:
Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
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I feel the need to address this... despite not having been in the original exchange. I can accept that you have a differing viewpoint from us. I refuse to be called a "litigation-crazed" person. I also think you need to get your facts straight before you pass judgment.
The simple fact is - we want the functionality that our devices were advertised with. Many of us did our research and realized that the MSM7500 is a POWERFUL chip. The video acceleration is top-tier, and everything else seemed good too. Then HTC decided to not include a driver for video acceleration. Also, before someone mentions that HTC has claimed(but never in an official press release) that the MSM7500 might NOT include the video acceleration... When have you known a huge manufacturer(nVidia, AMD, Intel, ATi, Qualcomm, etc) to name two differing devices the same name? They don't. they generally qualify them(e.g. 8800 series nVidia cards can be 8800 GT, GTX, GTS, etc.) What HTC did is akin to Dell selling you an Inspiron notebook with an nVidia 8800GTS card inside, then telling you that they didn't include drivers. Oh, and don't forget that nVidia won't support the card, since it's up to the manufacturer(Dell) to supply the drivers. Microsoft won't do it since it's Dell's problem. Dell won't do it because it isn't cost effective. (Suspend the reality of the situation for the analogy, though, please) Now you're left with a $300 piece of video hardware that can't be used because nobody wanted to provide a driver. Go software acceleration! That's the issue we're having. The phones WERE advertised as having the MSM7500(or 7200) which according to everything I've seen both have video acceleration. HTC just dropped the ball.
Now, about us writing our own drivers... That would be difficult without getting a bunch of information from Microsoft, HTC and Qualcomm, which they won't release. If you don't know why, look up open source video drivers for Linux, and you'll understand the pain. It's not a baseless suit - however I don't think that class action is the way to go. I think we need to work WITH MS, HTC, and Qualcomm to come up with a driver. Period. Don't let up the pressure until we have that.
I am sorry, but when your advocacy group starts out with a name like "HTCClassAction", and names its website "htcclassaction.org", it shows itself as not interested in getting the claimed result, but instead, despite any protestations from the group, interested in filing a class-action lawsuit from the beginning. That is "litigation-crazed". Was "htcvideodrivers.org" not available? I am sure that, if you wanted to, given a few minutes you could come up with several non-litigation-oriented group and website names. If you were the product manager for the 6800 at HTC, and you heard of the issues raised by the group HTCClassAction, would you think, "Here is a group of users that wants to work with us to resolve what they see as a legitimate issue?"
Speaking of facts...have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included? I would bet that HTC never stated that the 6800 would include every feature technologically possible with the chipset. It has the capability of supporting an 8MP camera, but they didn't include that either. Another lawsuit? I am sure there are other things the chipset would be CAPABLE of that were not included. If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?
Realize that modern class-action lawsuits are almost always settled for lots of money to the attorneys and a pittance to the class. Remember the Verizon Moto 710 Bluetooth class action? It was settled as usual...the attorneys got somewhere around $6 million; users got $25 if they wanted to keep the 710 and stay with Verizon, a waived ETF and a refund if they wanted to leave Verizon, and a credit toward another device if they wanted to stay with Verizon but not keep the 710. They did not get additional Bluetooth profiles. And if this goes to trial, the courts will never order a manufacturer to provide technology, and support for it, that the manufacturer does not want to provide. IF you could prove false advertising, and I do not think that you could, you might get a small refund or credit toward another phone. If that is what you want, just sell the device on an internet auction site and buy something else...you will probably get more that way.
sucks too that our phones dont even have the ati chip in them. my htc wizard (old school) had better video and gameplay
I don't play games much on my ppc so this problem hasn't affected me as much. However I did notice that PIE was sluggish and freaked when video playback sucked on WM and TCPMP. Most of that was avoided by using GDI on TCPMP.
The real issue here is why can't they add the driver? If it was a simple fix it probably wouldn't have been left out in the first place. Sounds to me like they ran into technical issues trying to make it work.
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
johnannie said:
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
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you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
watson540 said:
you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
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Hahahahaha. Yes, we're children. Little babies, the lot of us. Anyway......
No, we shouldn't sue them for not including a tv-out jack or an 8 megapixel camera. What we are trying to achieve is driver support FOR THE INCLUDED HARDWARE. This is what most people who argue against our position fail to realize. We aren't asking them to do something crazy, like give us a better camera or a tv-out jack, or even more memory. We're asking them to SUPPORT THE HARDWARE THEY SOLD US. Gasp.
Now... I'll use an analogy for those among us who are a bit retarded. If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger, the electronic stability control system, up to 6 airbags, and the radio (all of which are included in your car, albeit only 4 airbags) - and it came with a 30-day money-back guarantee... and you drove it for 30 days and thought to yourself, "Wow, this is clearly better than last years' model" - would you return it? Probably not... That's what happened here.
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them. Now, back to our example. Now imagine you go to a car-meet-up with your new fancy car, and everyone there is talking about how <insert another fast car here> is wayyyy faster than their car, in the same conditions. You and the other owners do some research and find out that the car manufacturer didn't include software to make your supercharger work. It's just inert, sitting there looking pretty. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed that the chip in your car wasn't actually using the supercharger? Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
Anyway - that's where I'm coming from at least - I don't presume to speak for anyone else though. I will say this though, watson540, you need to calm down. You're running around these forums beating on people's opinions and posts. Frankly, yours aren't much more productive. At least try to post something relevant or meaningful... or at the very least something other than "you moron, rtft" or "you moron, stop crying".
it's not really a bug its more
like a pc with the generic vga driver installed
even if the pc have a geforce
problems is that one cant get hold of the
spc driver to replace the generic
ponicg said:
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them.
...
Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
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OK, so you admit that you were very satisfied with the performance until someone said "Hey, I think they OWE US something MORE than what we got, let's SUE THEM for it?" If the device met your needs when you tested it, then you have no complaint. If it did not, you should have returned it in the 30 day return period.
As I asked you way back in this thread, but you have not yet addressed, (nor any of the other points in my previous post), "have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included?...If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?"
None of these analogies is perfect...one big flaw in yours is that you hypothesized "If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger," then switched to the car actually having a supercharger advertised: "Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger". Another is that the supercharger's existence is open and apparent to someone who looks under the hood, without requiring any research or disassembly of the vehicle. Another is that in chip manufacturing, it is usually more efficient to produce a batch of chips with all the capabilities, then use the ones you want in each device, as opposed to redesigning the chip package and retooling the production run for each combination of features desired in each application. No one could reasonably say that it was more efficient to produce a factory run of cars with all possible mechanical features (such as the supercharger in your example) included, and then only connect and use the ones desired for that model. However, auto manufacturers also sometimes utilize parts and sub-assemblies in a particular model without enabling or utilizing all of that component's capabilities, when doing so is more efficient.
Since you like automotive analogies, I will use one without resorting to calling anyone "a bit retarded": suppose that Ford announced that all 2010 Mustangs would use the new computer chip from Super Tuner Corporation, "because of its wonderful and powerful new capabilities," with no details as to what particular features would be made available. Your research into the chip on Super Tuner's website revealed that it supported superchargers, turbochargers, four-wheel drive, four-wheel steering, and nitrous fuel systems. You went in to a Ford dealer and test-drove the top-of-the-line 2010 Mustang, were impressed by its performance, and bought it. Six months later, someone pointed out that you had received none of those performance items listed above. You did not know why, but it was because Ford had internally determined pre-production that the suspension and frame would not be sufficient to provide those performance items in any model Mustang, and they did not want to re-engineer the support structure. They made no announcement about these features not being available, as they had never made any announcement about including those features. Would you join the MustangClassAction.org group? Now suppose that you had done no research prior to the purchase, and six months later discovered the information on Super Tuner's website after someone pointed out the lack to you...even less valid a complaint then, isn't it?
And further suppose that at the same time, someone else says, "I took the interior of my Mustang apart, and it has mounts for 8 speakers, and they only provided it with 4 speakers. Ford has to install 4 more speakers in every Mustang, because it has the capability of holding them!"
And another owner pulls out his factory radio, notices the output jack on the back for a subwoofer..."Where is my subwoofer? It obviously was supposed to come with my car, or they would not have included a radio that could support one and put a jack on the back of the radio to plug one in!!"
Meanwhile, another owner says "I was testing the electronic trip computer included in my Mustang, the same one included in all 2010 Mustangs, and it has the ability to calculate and display up to 55 MPG, but my Mustang only gets 23 MPG. Obviously, Ford was advertising a Mustang that would get 55 MPG and must give us that!"
Enough analogies? Would you get angrier, and call Ford arrogant, when they say, "Thank you for your business, customers, but we never said the Mustang had those capabilities, and we have no intention of retrofitting them, but we will take your opinions into account in designing our next vehicle?"
Analogies by their nature will never replicate the Titan/Mogul/6800 situation. However, we can discuss the 6800 situation itself, and I am waiting for your answer about the HTC advertisement and your not discovering the lack in the first 30 days of your device ownership.
its just bull**** when the the video playback on the 6700 is alot better than the titan. makes no sense at all and yes i feel ripped off.
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
unless you guys can come up with some previous claim by HTC that the mogul was supposed to support this specific capability of the chip, i dont see how you guys can try to force anything out of them. I'm with bakntyme on this one.
Sure its pretty crappy that they put the hardware in there and didnt support it, and im no lawyer, but it doesnt seem like they would be under any legal obligation to support the video drivers.
watson540 said:
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
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Although I appreciate the support, a more professional wording of it might help to keep from increasing the level of emotions and inflammation on this issue.
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
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Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
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i agree "first" comments are riduculous, and if you dont like the application from descrption then dont install it...positive criticism is more then welcome but "this sucks" is getting on my nerves...
timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
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i agree with you; even though i love this phone there are a lot of things i dislike about it. the only advice i can give to you is to be patient. the phone has 'officially' been out for a little under a month and there is already so much improvements to it:
- 2 updates have already been rolled out,
- we have found a Root and a way to manually update it.
- we are beginning to see system folders moved to sdcard to save space(even though the phone should have came with more memory)
apps on the market are getting better i don't if you have seen the app "bubble". bubble is a basic bubble level that uses the accelerometer to see if something is level and changes as the phone changes orientation it may seem like a simple app but it shows that Google came come out with an update that uses the accelerometer to change orientation.
- first signs of on screen keyboards like akeyui, a7email and a7sms.
all of these improvements in about 3 weeks and tons more to come idk what anybody can complain about besides hardware issues
just wait come Jan 2009 the G1 isnt going to be anything like it is today.
demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
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--M
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yeah there need to be some serious clean up in th commenting sections, some of these comments might discourage people from developing apps for the G1, i think comments should strictly about the apps and not about being 1st or 151st, or bashing other commenters, and people definitely should not comment on an app the don't know how to use.
however developers should include directions on how to use their apps so people do not have to rely on commenting to try and figure out what it does and how it does it.
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
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muscle...DiVix...kids...office...flash...basic...bugs
words that stood out and i DEFINATELY agree
as i said before patience is the key here
the reason why there aren't many good programs out right know is because they are still in development, there are some apps that won google's app contest that are not on the market because they are still under development. developers take their to try and come out with a bug free app and you criticize them for taking to long however if they rush it and get it out with SOME bugs people crucify them. how long did you think it took for divx or flash to be developed for other phones?
why do people expect a phone thats been out for under a month to have the same capabilities as phones that been out for years?
how many phone do you know had divx support right out of the box or even one month after release? i estimate that divx support will be out before the end of the year.
i agree that apps on the market are going the the hole, especially with millions of the same type of apps, c'mon how many different weather apps do we need, how many background apps is necessary. but you got to admit out of the hundreds of apps on the market there are some good ones.
I'm waiting with great anticipation on the games for the g1. Sure i want cut copy and paste, document reader, full video player, full file manager and task manager as well as others but i'm dying to play nes games and others on this phone. The market is pretty lame in the games department but hey i got pacman, solitaire, and a few others free so i'm not gonna complain. I think the apps are very promising and there are a wide variety of them. Granted none of the crucial apps are out yet but i have quite a few on g1 that i love and got em all for free!!! We just have to be patient, i knew going in i would have to be.
All the apps are free. The hardware has only been in people's hands for a few weeks (at most). A serious developer, wanting to create the exact apps we're all hoping for, needs a heck of a lot more time. The SDK was fine, but any serious developer is going to want to log a lot of hours with a physical device (or several) to finalize the product.
And they're not going to do all that, for free.
This device has huge potential, and the reason we're seeing amaturish apps is because the only people who are willing to play around with creating apps for free are mostly hobbyists who want feedback to further their skills.
I predict that once the payment system is set up for the Market, the apps you're all stomping your feet about are going to show up.
The programs we're talking about are complex, writing them and testing them is time consuming, and I assume that they're going to be larger than the apps we're seeing now. It's entirely possible that some of these apps are almost finished, but are waiting for SD card loading to be added to the functionality before they can release them. Some may even be delayed by the announcement of the virtual keyboard -- they may want to integrate that for the launch of their apps.
I think two things need to happen before we're going to see the apps we all want.
-Pay system on Android Market
-The Ability for Apps to be installed and run from the SD card.
Until those two things happen, the App Store is going to be like it is. And it's also time you guys thought about something. The apps that are "missing" were never a secret, most of the complaints I see are about things that were known well before launch, or discovered the first week people had it in hand. If you didn't read up, that's your fault. If you read up and assumed things would be taken care of within one to two months (something no one promised you) that's also your fault.
I'll predict something for you right now, in light of the economy and everything else, it'll be 6 months to a year before HALF the apps we want are available and working. Now, that's just my estimate, but if that sounds "too long" to wait, then I'd invest in another phone rather than spending the next 6 months posting complaints like "why isn't _____ done yet? And where's the ______ app?!!"
Just my 2 cents
I have already heard many apps have been developed but the developers are waiting for the pay system which has already been annoucnced and is coming 3 months after launch.
I am similar to you... give it time and you will see the best things you have ever seen. I mean look at Linux... they have some awesome apps on most linux flavors that make me dual boot into linux just to have. I think this device will be the same as this was the entire purpose.
Google is updating features all the time in the git directory and it won't be long before they fix the main issues and then the developers will be looking at new things to give us.
So far the barcode readers alone seem like such a huge advantage as I haven't seen them on mobile devices before(at least none that worked)
brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
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Click to collapse
Well you said my answer in your own post. The device has been out less than a month. That's nowhere near enough time to make those killer apps you're talking about. To google's credit they did put in things like street view with the compass mode and there are those apps you've talked about. It takes MONTHS to do real software developement so you're going to keep seeing more and more alarms and stuff until then.
seriously, does ANYBODY give a ratsass or even use streetview?
They should have made sure all the media stuff and the email was topnotcxh.
I agree 100% with the first post! Google should have prepaired Android better. There is a lot of competition out there and I would say by what I've seen so far they are light years behind. I did not expect that with all the money in the world Google couldn't release product that was better polished. I have put my G1 back in its box and I'm back to my unlocked Tilt, what sucks is going back to the old screen and Edge but its functinality that I need. I wish they made some kind of task aplication that I can put on the screen kind of likr thr picture frame that would display my tasks for the day. I have a Motorola ROKR E2 that runs Linux and there are more useful stuff for it out there. I desagree we have to wait untill we start paying for apliications, I believe Google can afford providing us with free functional software as more and more people will be using their services.
i love my g1, but i agree with these people that google didn't do enough...and i hope they're working to fix it.
i think that their whole "leave it in the hands of developers" approach was probably a mistake. they should have made all the basic applications like they did but also gone a step further to spice up the phone. i hope that google, in the new few updates, incorporates some more stuff, like OUTLOOK SYNC (i wuld love it if they changed the google calendar sync for windows into just google sync and have it sync everything with outlook....funambol right now sucks i have like 80 of each contact!)
they also should have made a GOOD video recorder / player, and even a better music player. they're trying to beat apple at multimedia, and are failing miserably.
they should add a decent on-screen keyboard and maybe even a task manager...or make it only have like 4 open tasks in the backgroudn...because i've noticed my g1 slowing down a lot after having a few apps open.
google should add a manual update button...i'm still on RC28 because i dont feel like installing the modified rc30 or plugging it in to update. have a freaking "UPDATE" button in the system info thing or something.
i think google needs more than 3 home screens...i've already filled all of mine up. they also should have added more widgets, like the guy above me said.
SELECTING TEXT SUCKS. i have to use the trackball to select a ltter of a word...on my windows mobile i could just tap on where i wanted it to be and at least it would get me within 1 or 2 letters...if i tap on a word on the g1 nothing happens!
we need to be able to install stuff to the sd card!
i think i'm missing a lot of things but i've only had the phone for 2 days and i've noticed all that...i hope developers DO step in if google is too stupid not to add more basic functionality.
/rant
Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.
coffeboy23 said:
Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.
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Click to collapse
Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.
And remember most people are new to development, don't know how many "this is my first try" apps I have seen. When you get that one that charges 20 bucks for the app... you will get another developer who will release it free and just ask for donations... I suggest donating whatever you can to the one that gives it free.
Henchman said:
Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
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Click to collapse
No, but it was google who shoudl ahve made sure that the basics were coveredf well.
The Camera I'm sure can take greta pics, but the controls suck.
The email is severly lacking.
No streaming video.
And they shoudl ahve elarnt form the iPhoen release, that push email fro MsExcahnge should have been there fromt he getgo.
Or the should have built a BB app, just like you can get for WinMo.
No, they focused on teenagers, not professionals.
neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no....google is not taking any money but is giving 30% of all apps sold to the carriers...tmobile might be the one "wanting" money but they have no control over the app store at all.
Hello there folks. Let me begin by introducing myself and my situation. My name is Damian, I am in the twelfth-grade and I am currently enrolled in my high-school's concurrent enrollment program with one of the local universities in which I have to write a paper concerning the field of software engineering.
I started this post with the intention of finding and asking certified software engineers a few questions concerning their professions.
I came to this particular forum because of the many brilliant folk here, and my assumption that certainly a portion of the active members are certified software engineers.
-Many thanks in advanced for your replies and imput,
-Damian
damiandarkwater said:
Hello there folks. Let me begin by introducing myself and my situation. My name is Damian, I am in the twelfth-grade and I am currently enrolled in my high-school's concurrent enrollment program with one of the local universities in which I have to write a paper concerning the field of software engineering.
I started this post with the intention of finding and asking certified software engineers a few questions concerning their professions.
I came to this particular forum because of the many brilliant folk here, and my assumption that certainly a portion of the active members are certified software engineers.
-Many thanks in advanced for your replies and imput,
-Damian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can answer questions in this field as I am a Software Engineer. I would be happy to give a young person such as yourself advice.
I actually didn't go into college right after high school, I wish I had but I incountered allot of hardship around your age. When I was 22 I went back to school and payed my own way through college, slept in my car in the college parking lot and lived off of peanut butter and jelly sandwhichs.
Honestly its your first job in software thats the hardest to get, but if your persistent you'll get it after that if your perform its pretty much smooth sailing. A good example is how everybody lately has had a hard time finding jobs (bad economy), and even I was laid off from a job where the company was doing great and then went south and I went on the market looking around and recruiters were calling non-stop and I had 2 jobs (one short term getting paid insane amounts of money for 200 hours of work, and then a long term contract after that), I took a vacation to vegas, paid of credit card debt and then started my long term contract.
So ask away!
Edit:
Oh I currently work for a large telecom company where I work ont here provisioning software. My main expertise is Java (j2se, j2ee blah blah) I also write reports (crystal, jfree and actuate), I also have alot of side skills like jsp, ajax, jquery. I actually have wirtten code professionally in all the major langs like c, c#, j# asp.net. As a software developer you constantly need to evolve and progress. I aslo done graphics professionally and If I had it my way I write videos games if I could but alas the life of a programmer is allot less glamorous than most people no.
Many thanks, I'm sorry to hear about your tough times, but I'm glad to hear things have settled out.
I want to say its great that your able to help me and thank you for your tux theme and scripts.
I am actually looking into dealing with my computers as a profession after collage.
So I begin (thanks again):
What courses and or certifications do you need.
What is a typical day in your job like?
Do you enjoy your job?
And you can tell me anything else that you believe to be important that I may have missed.
-Thanks again
Damian
damiandarkwater said:
Many thanks, I'm sorry to hear about your tough times, but I'm glad to hear things have settled out.
I want to say its great that your able to help me and thank you for your tux theme and scripts.
I am actually looking into dealing with my computers as a profession after collage.
So I begin (thanks again):
What courses and or certifications do you need.
What is a typical day in your job like?
Do you enjoy your job?
And you can tell me anything else that you believe to be important that I may have missed.
-Thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My tough times where years ago. I've been in the field for almost 10 years.
The first thing you want todo is get a bachelors degree in computer science. Take as many courses as you can in which you will get exposed to writing software, understanding logic and being able to solve problems using logic. But the most important thing is have a specailty something that you know above all other things, be it a certain language or software... good expample is SAP, I have a friend who is a project manager for a very very large electronics manufacturer. they are paying a contractor to do SAP programming and they pay him 500$ dollars an hour... yes 500$ and hour now its not a permanent job but he's making more in a month than most people make in a couple of years. Thats his specailty and its a hard one to break into.
So once you get your degree you can concentrate on what your specailty will be this is where certs come in. Certs are great but don't pay for them, get a job in the field and get them to pay, this is because most of them expire and you usually have to renew them every couple of years. But the look good on your resume especailly if a company pays as this gives the impression that you are a go getter and that the company beleives in you. Your specailty might relate to your degree major or it might be what your first major job is, this is just luck of the draw.
So a typicaly day, wow its hard to say. Sometimes its go go go and I'm writing code like crazy. Other days its talk talk talk and meetings. Sometimes I spend days writing tech specs or documents to give overviews and estimations on software that needs to be written. Think office space it really is allot like that. One thing alot of people don't know about being a software developer is that you not only need to understand how to write software (ie solve problems) but you also need to undersand the industry in which you write software for. This means you need to understand the business process. So think if you were writing software for a burger company, you need to understand how orders are processed, how iventory is processed and used blah blah. This is where probably the hardest part it almost a second job.
Do I like my job.... as someone who had mowed lawns and dug ditches for a living making money that wouldnt even feed one person, yes I actually love my job. I worked hard to get where I'm at I make pretty good money, my wife doesn't have to work, My kids have more than I had as a little kid and the work I do is satisfying.
If there one thing I could stress when it comes to this line of work. You have to love software, so much so that you willing to work long hours and then come home and write more software as a hobby (maybe i did atleast). Or when you hit college start a pet project and see it through. These are the things that will set you apart from other developer coming out of college. Especailly when you don't have much on your resume, and honestly these are the question potential employers ask (hobbies, personal projects).
How bout this... I give you an hour by hour blog for the next week on what I'm doing at work.
I'm currently working on a rewrite... code fix for code that the company I work for now decided to outsource. This code ended up being terrible and was somethign I was thrown into when I arrived here about 8 months ago. I just started this project about 3 weeks ago and before that I spent about 4weeks evaluating and writing custom testing suites to produce metrics scores for this software compared to the previous version of this software (ie compare say version 5 to version 6). I was the one who found all the bugs and areas of concern and gave estimates on hours of work to fix these things.
So I might be off tomorrow, if I am I will report so. If not then I will start the hour by hour blog if you like.
Such a blog would be amazing (and id read up hourly for updates trust me, this sounds fascinating!)but I wouldn't want to detract from your life anymore then I already have, you work hard and I imagine that you would want to have time to yourself for your hobbies and your family.
Thank you very much. I could ask a million more questions, but again, I don't want to take away to much time. Thanks a billion
No really i want to answer them I wish I had been in you're shoes when I was your age. I didn't have some one telling that I could do it... computer were different back then hell I didn't own my own computer till I was in my twenties.
Ill do the blog for you... one if the perks of being on a computer. Like I said just at work tho. When I get home I can't promise when I be able to post.
So ask question one at a time since I tend to be long winded... it makers it easier... honestly when I retire I plan on teaching at a tech college... but thats about 20 years away. But I love to answer question about these things.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Great
Well what was learning your first programming language like
Do you think knowing a markup language helps or would help in the learning process?
What do you think the software engineering world will be like in a few years?
Is there any particular aspect of the computer world you like most?
Do you still keep in contact with any of your professors or colleges?
Hey Asimmons, thanks for helping damian out. I'm in the same boat he is, and I'm finding this really useful! Thanks a lot!
Glad I can help I was in you guys shoes once. And know that feeling of uncertainty... ill answer more tomorrow for you guys and start the blog.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I know I've said it tons, but I mean it, thank you ASimmons. And I'm glad this post can help others
damiandarkwater said:
Great
Well what was learning your first programming language like
Do you think knowing a markup language helps or would help in the learning process?
What do you think the software engineering world will be like in a few years?
Is there any particular aspect of the computer world you like most?
Do you still keep in contact with any of your professors or colleges?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mark up languages are very important, but I wouldn't focus a career on them. Languages like html, dhtml or xml are skills you will pickup along the way, understanding how these langs are parsed and used by other languages are very important and is a valuable skill to have. Especially in Java and with the emergence of real time web applications that uses technologies like ajax, jquery and now html5 it is more important to understand the usage and capabilities of these languages rather than focus on just knowing how to write a webpage.
The future of software will be more and more web based and mobile application. as we have seen in the corporate world for the last 5 or so years application that were once only possible on the desktop have moved entirely to web based app. This makes deployments and updates easier to maintain, version control easier, and with technologies like html5, ajax used in conjunctions with SOA and SAAS these apps perform just as well or better than the app you use to see run on your desktop. Take MS Office 365 and their cloud software for this, this is essentially an SAAS (software as a service) you lease the software it doesn't run locally anymore and the software and its worries and maintenance are pushed to the software vendors, we start to see this more and more. Google has been at the for front of this, and expect to see computers in the near future that are just dummy terminals that run only the basics and all your important software is pushed to a corporate cloud. I'm not saying desktop pcs will disappear but downloadable software will begin to especially in the corporate world.
I pretty much like anything that has to do with technology. I love the history of computers since I grew up and pretty much watch the birth of the home pc and remmeber when the 486dx came out and it was considered the best computer you could get. I remember using the trs-80 in typing class and the atari 2600 (still have one) kelico vision and then the nintendo (still have that to).
And yes I do stay in contact with the department head from my old college. I still use her as a reference from time to time since I worked in college for a little as a tutor (best job to get.. I recommend this if you can). College is about learning in large part but secondly its about contacts and networking. Make sure your networking in college, know your peers and previous alumni. Introduce your self and make sure to attend functions, since the will be potential co-workers or bosses.
So its mondays... I going to maybe do every couple of hours every hours might be to much. But I'm about to dive in to a ton of spaghetti code and try and make some since of it. This is especially ORM (look this up) code for an oracle database, and I'm trying to fix what is broken without having to actually rewrite the whole thing (if it was up to me I would). Be back in a couple of hours.
So its just after 2 and I've had to switch task to help another developer. This is pretty common and as a developer you have to be able to multi task.
So I'm working in creating a way for dynamic where clause can be built or just passed to and object DAO class.
The implementation I'm trying to fix is currently building them in a very static and non reusable way. When you design code it has be thought out and designed in such a way so that things like maintenance on said code is taken into account, and that repeatable processes are written in such a way that the can be reusable. This seems to have non of that.
If your looking at a package or program and see common re-occuring methods then this would be considered bad (imo) and should be re-evaluated and or rewritten so that this process can be written in one spot and referenced be other, this way if bugs or changes need to occur in this process you only have to change it there, this is the most common principle in OOP design but you be amazed at how much it is abused.
While you might be saving time up front your creating time on the back end for thing like code maintenance, upgrades or bug fixes.
It's about 5 for me and I just got home from school. I was at a friends house trying to understand a virus her computer contracted. (smart engine, annoying little thing, but its all better now.)
I'm looking into ORM as I type this. Interesting o:
I ask about the markup languages because ill be taking an html5 course next term. Makes sense that id learn about them along the way.
Sounds like you can handle quite a bit all at once, does that develop with time?
Html 5 is not like the previous htmls. So yeah this will be the next big internet language think web apps and pages that are totally dynamic. Good choice.
The multi tasking can be learned... good habits and time management... mostly learning the most basic of issues there's probably 5 or so and how the efficiently solve the problems and with what tools. Tools are very important every thing from ant or scripts to automate task to custom libraries.
Here's one, it's sort of a snarky developer joke.
You can have software.. done fast, done cheap and done right. You can only choose two though.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Hey Sorry
Sorry I been super busy. There small a small re-org in my department and I changed cubicals (this office space) and now I sit next to the "I've done it all programmer". The I've done it all programming can do everything, and its was always easier.
So hows the paper going?
Done!
It was a pleasure to write after talking with you, thank-you.
I get my grade sometime next week.
Thank you Simmons I am in 9th grade and am in a it trade school and I have thinking of going more for software thank you for all this I will finish reading these when I get home
sent from one ba hero
Hello All,
I have an idea for an excellent app. It is an app that I see having the ability to generate mass amounts of money. I have been waiting for an app of its type to come out for a long while now, but have not seen any. I do not have the skills to create said app, and want to know what my best bet to get in with a dev team would be? Anyone know how to get in touch with the Big Boys of the app world to get this thing going? It is not a question of if, I KNOW this app will be successful. Please help and thank you for taking the time to respond.
- Ron
learn how to code is my best advice
Just find a developer here at xda or on the market that has an app that looks similar to or at least looks like they have the ability to produce something like what you would want, then send them an email.
Sent from my MIUI SCH-i500
Give us a hint on the type of app: theme-based, music, RSS reader, e-mail, SMS, Global Thermonuclear War for Android
I'm sure a lot of developers are busy and would just like to see if your app falls in their skill set/schedule.
Thanks,
Roots
The low down...
Well first off thank you all for your replies.
The app is a game though. The best part about it is the potential to touch many people with its genre and simplicity. Its a sports game that has no other game in its category, but that literally everyone on the planet knows of it. It would have the ability to be a head to head type game, online. It would also have a offline single player side, that would allow the user to earn "achievements" and enhance their player. Think of it as Homerun Battle 3D, but for a different sport. I really do see it as a more broad range of money earning potential because of the sport and how much of it kinda relies on the in game character. So upgrades like clothing, hair, jewelry, etc... would be more sought after, just to be different, when facing other players.
Which is why I think World Championship (Name Here)... has the potential to get mass amounts of attention. Im thinking Cross platform love. Maybe cross console...
I honestly wish I had the ability to do this, but starting from the ground up, it is kind of a big project for someone in my shoes. I have everything written out for the app... just looking for some execution.
Probably you already know - but I'll mention them here anyway:
a) In startups, people get a share out of the company [as they spend a lot of time risking that nothing will come out of it].
Maybe you are extremely convinced that you'll strike gold, but is still to be seen how the market will react. Good luck anyway
b) You need to hire some lawyers to protect your IP, before signing NDA agreements.
c) Write a business plan, start pitching, get the money from investors to start it up.
Then hire a good company to create it for you and invest in ads, etc.
You need all these, as if you do it wrong, then the game won't take off. But if somebody with more resources [which can afford very good devs] sees the opportunity, they might create a better version.
Well ask any developers here or if u know java try learning android
Well, I'm out! LOL I don't do games.
However, good luck to you!!
If you want to develop a game, be informed that aside from Java you also need to learn some C++ and OpenGL so it can take serious amount of time.
RonnyT24 said:
Well first off thank you all for your replies.
The app is a game though. The best part about it is the potential to touch many people with its genre and simplicity. Its a sports game that has no other game in its category, but that literally everyone on the planet knows of it. It would have the ability to be a head to head type game, online. It would also have a offline single player side, that would allow the user to earn "achievements" and enhance their player. Think of it as Homerun Battle 3D, but for a different sport. I really do see it as a more broad range of money earning potential because of the sport and how much of it kinda relies on the in game character. So upgrades like clothing, hair, jewelry, etc... would be more sought after, just to be different, when facing other players.
Which is why I think World Championship (Name Here)... has the potential to get mass amounts of attention. Im thinking Cross platform love. Maybe cross console...
I honestly wish I had the ability to do this, but starting from the ground up, it is kind of a big project for someone in my shoes. I have everything written out for the app... just looking for some execution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that's badminton
.......
Android blog: blackbearblanc.tumblr.com
Twitter : @jeppefoldager
Google+ : gplus.to/jeppefoldager
Rock band : thedeadradio.dk
Two options hire someone to make it. Or write it yourself...that's pretty much it lol.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
viulian said:
Probably you already know - but I'll mention them here anyway:
a) In startups, people get a share out of the company [as they spend a lot of time risking that nothing will come out of it].
Maybe you are extremely convinced that you'll strike gold, but is still to be seen how the market will react. Good luck anyway
b) You need to hire some lawyers to protect your IP, before signing NDA agreements.
c) Write a business plan, start pitching, get the money from investors to start it up.
Then hire a good company to create it for you and invest in ads, etc.
You need all these, as if you do it wrong, then the game won't take off. But if somebody with more resources [which can afford very good devs] sees the opportunity, they might create a better version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. I like the way to think. I have been doing most of the things said here. Contacted a group from a newly popular app in the store and got some "feedback". Not on the app itself but what it would take to get them to even sneeze at it. Blah... So say I had someone with money to back this... I have been looking around and it appears its impossible to patent or even block people from copying the app down to the most minute of changes making them different. Apparently its easier to get something done about it in the App Store but cheaper and easier to get an app in the Android Market. Before anyone snaps, I hate apple (I use to love them but after the 3gs/Ipad came out and I realized it would be the same incremental updates forcing me to buy new every year just like the Iphone/3g, I have hated them sense).
I just wish I could get EA or someone big like that to even respond to my emails. There really arent that many sports apps worth a damn. This one would open the whole thing up. Actually using multi-touch to do more than button spam. A game where being ranked against the world wouldn't depend on how often you play but, actual win/skill pct. I havent even played the game an I already love it hah.
WTF DO I DO!?!?!
Going after EA or a UbiSoft is going to be damn near impossible. You have to have "name" power (think Tiger Woods or Peyton Manning name power).
They PAY people $70,000 a year to come up with game ideas and then spend millions and 5 years developing it..can you say "Diablo 3"? LOL
Odds are your app is a "been there, done that" concept or is not a viable market opportunity in their eyes.
Now, don't get me wrong; I'm just expressing my opinion. I hope you can market your idea and make millions! I'm trying to do that with every month, every day and every line of code I write.
After looking at Android's fragmentation, the pain that one has to go through for every damn update is really getting to me! Google has really screwed this one up big time...its funny to even see the number of different screen sizes, hardware configurations android is being used. No standardization makes it a nightmare for developers to write applications that are consistent. Its hard to imagine that google has been so short sighted!
Asus is surely a brilliant company to have come out with a great tablet (and their newer tabs are kick ass too at great price points). But its really bothersome if I'm always in some sort of dependence on the manufacturer to release OS updates - this is just plain crazy! If Google's aim of ICS was to converge all devices to use the same OS, then why aren't they supporting manufacturers or insisting on all manufacturers to push out an update?
To start things, Google has really messed up their long term roadmap with fragmentation issues...and I would expect a company of that scale to atleast put in some sort of contractual commitments with all its manufacturing partners to roll out updates to its customers within a given timeline.
Here is what I would expect Google to have implemented yesterday, if they really need to retain popularity towards Android and keep it growing -
1. No more fragmentation moving forward. Standardization of screen resolutions, minimum performance requirements, ram, storage requirements etc.
2. Device manufacturers must commit to issuing software updates within some timeline from when google has an update.
3. Manufacturers dont decide if the update can run on their device or not - it must be google who decides this, and should be decided based on hardware specs
Now with Windows 8 on the horizon, I would definitely wait it out and move over to a Windows 8 based tablet. Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right. It shows clearly from their development tools/platform, their emulators, clean implementation rather than an iterative approach etc.
Last android tablet for sure! And I'm hoping windows phone 7 will mature too, and its windows 8 variant should be a lot more promising. Thats when I would phase out my Galaxy S and head back to MS
What are your thoughts people?
cheers,
San
dreamtheater39 said:
Knowing Microsoft, they're perhaps the only company who invests a lot of time and thinking in getting things right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha, you made my day XD ...btw. throwing the word "vista" into the ring ^^
coming to win8. i just read an article today that the arm version of windows is most likely not able to run desktop programs. asuming that: WOOOOOW, Windows 8
If you prefer a monolithic OS to the liberty you get with Android that's your choice.
Personally, I do not. I do not like being locked into one vendor who gets to decide how I use my device.
I like having a choice between a smartphone, a 7", 8.9", 10.1" or even 11.5" tablet, or even a laptop that I can run the same OS (Android) on.
I love the Transformer. I have one device that is truly a tablet and, with root, also serves the full functionality of a laptop. What can Windows offer me that does this? What can iOS offer me that can replace my Transformer?
And that's besides the fact that with a Windows device I'm stuck with an OS that I am familiar with the shortcomings of, and unable to do anything about. Or with iOS that, again, no one can fix but the manufacturer (if they feel like it).
Yes, fragmentation of the Android platform is a bit of a problem. The Market addresses this, somewhat, by only showing software you can install on your device. Most Android devs are sensitive to their customer's needs and a polite email is frequently responded to positively, and usually with a fix in short order.
Frankly, I consider the fragmented markets (GetJar, Market, Amazon App Store, etc) to be a far larger problem than fragmentation of the OS, and I don't consider that to be anywhere close to a large problem.
Hmmm my thoughts
1. They have set an agreement with there partners. A new timeline that they must update devices within a set life span for a device think it was around a year and a half have a google on it. (p.s year and a half aint bad considering how fast mobile tech is moving)
2. It should not be a problem for devs to write apps for ics and the differences in hardware are accounted for
3. ms well thought out vista ms dos longhorn??? ms dos was not future thinking and very short sighted especially in terms of ram!!!!!! if anyone remembers vista was a plain mess!! and longhorn didnt even meet the public. Not to mention the many other flaws or screw ups (anyone remember xp early days it was hackers heaven)
4. At its roots android is linux google the track record for updates and security between ms and linux then whie you're at it google how many servers in the world run linux compared to ms
5. The biggest flaw of all ms was a single user platform a pc the first pc they now want to make it multi user and move toward cloud computing etc etc linux has been doing this for years so inherantly android can do the same ms on the other hand is having to kick there own ass so hard bills teeth have been replaced with hes toe nails
6. I like win 8 and 7 for one reason gamming and a couple programs i just cant get otherwise but as soon as i can do these things elsewhere or linux based i will.
You do have good points but i just wanted to step in as the other side of the coin.
Sent from my tf Enigmatic V2 beta 1.65Ghz Panda.test cust kernel settings
If you really want to be assured you can run everything on every device I suggest you look at Apple. The iPad will continue to be the dominate tablet for years to come and then you can be assured that everything will be packaged nicely and controlled in the manner decreed in Cupertino.
Open source means a trading a messier support structure for more innovation, and is not for everyone.
blestsol said:
Just leave please and get your ipad.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Enough said, whining isn't usefull here.
Seriously what do you want us to say? Good writting nice information, thanks for the info!!
I mean wtf?
Reported the thread.
Klau you do relise where XDA stands for and what the DEVELOPERS word means behind it?
XDA is for developing and helping people when they want to use costum roms or other non officeal related subjects
If you are unsatisfied with a device use the offical forum of ASUS, thats the right place!
Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
blestsol said:
Ooc, you don't agree of disagree... Why you responding? People use words wrong so much... Fan boy? Man you reaching. Foh. You sick of something ignore it and take your own advice. Dip from the thread. Simple ass that for your simple ass.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol
klau1 said:
Are any of the responses written by a mod?
So since when did everyone get appointed the responsibility to decide what is allowed to be discussed on this board, which isn't even the developer forum, it's on the general forum.
If you don't think the topic is relevant to you, just don't enter it. Let the mod do their job.
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------
Learn to read, I said if you disagree, state your reason.
I've stated my reason of disagreement regarding the unfriendly atmosphere of this board.
You're grasping at straws that don't exist look who's reaching lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't disagree. My post said what I meant. What he was describing is what ios can give him. Please show where my fan boy thoughts are though. In my short sentence.
I'll wait for that though.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
silversx80 said:
Oh, the irony :
Here's the thing, the OP is an open-ended criticism on things the android community praises about the android platform. Praising those things does not make one a fanboy, nor does calling one a fanboy render an ages-old demotivational poster anything less than a sophomoric response in the hopes that a chuckle will sway the reader over to your point of view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, face palm has always been my actual sentiment about the responses here, and pictures help prevents a large post from getting ignored.
silversx80 said:
Someone criticizes the platform as a whole, one which others really enjoy (including myself), and makes the declaration that they're moving over to another, which is much better. Their assessment is based only on opinionated observations from their point of view, which is hardly an inconvenience to anyone else. Of course they're going to get a "get the f*ck out" response, and deserve nothing less. It's like when the Christians invaded the Turks and tried to convert the entire group of people.
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
There is nothing wrong with desiring something that is better for your uses, but use that as a premise. Don't start by lambasting the opposition, especially when you know what the system is about and you know the offerings of the competition. Some people may actually enjoy the things you don't.
In my opinion, ALL of the devises and software are AMAZING when you consider what the all do.
Instead, we get a bunch of non-contributing, product-zero, whiny little girls. You know what, that's fine; next time you think of complaining, go make your own. As soon as yours is better, then you can complain about other offerings.
Until then, STFU and GTFO.
P.S. If android will be more successful as a standardized platform, we'll see it move that way. I write that with reservation, as android is currently the #1 mobile platform in the world, so they must be doing something right... much to the chagrin of the OP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, every reasonably intelligent person understands trade-off exist. Simply one comes to mind:
can a "God be powerful enough to create a rock so heavy that even it can't lift it?"
Usability comes at the expense of functionality, everyone should understand that.
But people forget that sometimes, not a big deal, just explain it to them instead of acting like an internet bully. That doesn't help your point across.
silversx80 said:
It brings up the ages-old motherly line of wisdom: If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive
lol's were had reading this thread.
klau1 said:
Just because you disagree with the OP doesn't mean it was not "nice" or offensive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, basically what he did was akin to going over to VW Vortex, complaining about all the reasons why his little 2.5 Golf was not like the current offerings from Toyota, and said that when the new Hondas come out, he's getting one of those.
There is no purpose in his post other than to demean and criticize. There is nothing productive, nor contributory about it. No, I didn't have to read, nor post, but I felt compelled.
If someone want's to leave for a better personal option, that's fine. If they want to make a scene and flip the table on the way out, then they shouldn't expect a positive reception to their announcement.
As much as I hate Apple, I do think that progress requires contrast. What do I mean? We need a solidified company like Apple that keeps pushing the same standard but slightly better (that's like peer-reviewed science). We need a looser society of innovators like Google's associates who play around at the edges of what we expect at the moment (who are like fringe scientists, some contribute great genius ideas, and some who completely **** it up). For me, I like the fringe scientist; I understand the need for peer-review, but I think I'll stick with Android for at least the next tablet too.
A WARNING FROM THE MODERATOR
A WARNING FROM THE MODERATOR
Play nice..........
talk nice ........
Or you will be banned.......
And I will close the thread
To those who reported this bad behavior, thank you
Keep it civil, Folks
Thanks ~ oka1 Moderator
Did they demo a Windows 8 ARM device at CES? I am very curious as to how Windows 8 will perform.
This is a very interesting project that could either excel if developers jump onboard, or crash horribly if developers reject the idea of Windows on ARM.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
dreamtheater39 said:
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a huge problem with this statement, and pretty much the rest of your post. They are not a valid presumptions.
First, the developer and platform support each other. The platform does not live because the developer supports it... I'd argue that it's the other way around, but still a 2-way street. Without the platform, the developer cannot develop.
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Third, screen resolution (and other oddities) may be a contributing factor in some app developers not bringing iOS apps to Android, but the vetting process of the Apple App Store discourages other developers from even trying to release anything onto iOS. Some devs don't even want to program things for iOS based on principle (and visa versa).
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Fifth, one could argue that it's not the big-time devs who got each platform off the ground, but the small-time devs, who released their apps for free. It wasn't the gaming capabilities that sold Android and iOS early on; that's a very narrow perspective.
Sixth, Android isn't being shot in the proverbial foot by different market places, those particular devices may be. The Nook and Kindle Fire come to mind, but keep in mind that those were sold on the premise that they're electronic readers first, that happen to run a modified version of Android.
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
I moved to Windows Mobile phones from Palm devices because I wanted better synching with my computer, use of the .Net framework, and ease of customization ability. Turned out that WM was not intuitive on my early phones.
I moved from WM to webOS. Loved it. It was intuitive, smooth and reliable. Customization wasn't very easy, but I didn't care. Also, it had support of the big app developers and had some pretty good games too. Unfortunately, it didn't have support of the small-time app devs because of the difficulty writing apps for it. Where is it now?
From there, I knew that webOS was going to be short-lived, so I moved to Android. No, it's not as stable as iOS or webOS, but it is still a great OS. Small devs can get a chance in the app market, along with big-time devs who write cross-platform.
Windows 8 may be a great platform, but the big picture is that there is no cult-following for Microsoft as there is for Apple. What they need to do is give potential-customers options. Those options need to range from inexpensive, to top of the line. Different hardware, in other words (a nightmare for devs). If they don't, and since they don't have a die-hard following, I suspect it wont gain as much ground as Android did, or even webOS.
Apple has a good customer base, and knows what that customer wants. It's an easy sell. Windows customers are far too diverse and can't accept a blanket-type device range to cover all the wants and needs like Apple customers can. Android addresses those customers by providing options because it's an open architecture. Fragmentation sucks for the devs, but the user doesn't care because the typical user only has one device. Those users are why the devs exist at all.
To sum up, I think three things:
1. Your assessment of Android's shortcomings are somewhat short-sighted and not applicable to the big picture. The user wants the experience of the phone, not the apps. Apps are just noise now, with hundreds doing the same thing.
2. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears, or ears that cannot do anything about your complaints (i.e. I don't think Android's authors are reading this thread with much merit).
3. Your arguments would be better suited in the iOS, or Windows 8 sub-forums.
I was thinking about the horror of all the different Android devices when looking at them from a Dev's point of view (which I am NOT) so I appreciate your openness and insight.
The main reason why I will stay away from an iOS tablet for a long time is simply that the interface on a tablet needs to be more flexible than simply arranging icons to start apps. In other words, as long as iOS does not support widgets there's no appeal to me to buy an Apple tablet. Very narrow-minded, I know. Having an iPh*one (3GS) is not optimal but I am still waiting for an Android phone that intrigues me and is NOT linked to VZW.
dreamtheater39 said:
Interesting feedback from all you guys!
Just to clear things out, from where i come from -
-I've always loved android for the flexibility it gives me. I've always made custom roms, modded the hell out of every device i've ever had, starting way back from the Pocket PC days! Android - seemed like the most perfect option for me.
-I've always stayed away from Apple, for a myriad of reasons - they dictate everything, and i hate that. And also, i hate being in the bucket of half wit fanboys who bought one just to be "cool"
-I work for one of the biggest game companies, and i'm responsible for technology direction for smartphones, tablets. So, let me tell you what this looks like from a developer's view point -
A game is always written for iOS first - reason being, the platform is standardized in terms of display resolutions, hardware capabilities. Testing effort is extremely low in comparison (you dont have to test on a 100 devices!)
You have only 2 aspect ratios to deal with - phone & tablet. And you know that your game will run on all the iphones and ipads floating in the world. So this makes it easy from development & testing points of view. And this is the reason why games are "always" developed for iOS first.
Now the fun begins - once the game is done and is out on iTunes, there are large conversion teams which takes care of getting it to run on android phones and tablets. You have to see the hardware inventory we have here - so manyyyy android phones and tablets - and all of these have to be tested to give it a QA greenlight. Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
And then now, we have honeycomb and ICS - the screen has a static status bar in the bottom which takes away 48 pixels from your screen! Suddenly, your game needs to factor odd resolutions of 1280x752, 1232x800, 1024x552, etc etc. This means - redesigning all your game menus, UI, dialogs so that they dont leak out of the screen - crazy load of work! And then - you can have ONLY ONE APK to support ALL THESE resolutions and hardware configurations!
And then finally to top it all, you have several different market places, custom roms to test on, devices that the developer blacklists because of incompatibility - bypasses blacklisting on the market place because of a custom rom/hack...and he ends up playing the game giving us bad ratings!
The list is endless! I really feel this should not be the case for such a huge platform coming from a really big ass company! Honestly, i feel android made it big because it came in at the right time when the hardware side of things was at a great level - allowing them to give super slick graphics. And they had no other competition (windows mobile was too old, and the other was just iOS). They just got lucky, went without a clear plan - and iteratively refined and fixed things.
Atleast now, I feel Google should really accelerate its efforts towards some form of convergence. Look at the variance that a developer needs to take care of - different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor!) - performance wise, different screen resolutions (a 100 different combinations! literally!), custom roms/modding, different manufacturer driven hardware/software customization, a zillion different OS versions, and so on. All this has to be factored, and we can have only 1 apk! And then finally, the provided android emulator that they provide - is soooo damn sorry, its not even funny. The emulator is literally like a slide show on my really powerful desktop - forget trying to use the built in emulator for developing games!
At the end, the platform lives because of the number of developers who support it. If customers dont have newer and better experiences coming - they would shift boats - its as simple. Making it harder for developers is just shooting yourself in the foot!
-San
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Even when devices have the same hardware specs, each device behaves differently at times because the manufacturers have written different drivers specific to the device!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
I do agree that fragmentation exists but only between Android versions such as those running 1.5, 1.6, 2.2, 3.0, 4.0, etcetera but you can deal with this. I doubt they'll standardize hardware. Maybe screen sizes, maybe screen resolutions but manufacturers are there to make money, not play equal to every other manufacturer. If HTC wants to release a better phone with a better resolution to make more money Google isn't going to tell them to do otherwise. The only reason this is different with Apple is because Apple is the only one making hardware for their iOS so there are no companies fighting over each other for profits. They can control the whole platform. Obviously with Android you have multiple hardware manufacturers and they're not all part of the same company, they're looking to make profits over each other and that means devices have varying features. That's just how Android is unless Google makes their own devices and restricts Android to Google devices.
I think I would like the idea of uniformity better too, not as strict as Apple but certain things being the same across all vendors. We're heading that way in a sense since Google is requiring all ICS devices to support the Holo theme. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we get more restrictions from Google but as for forcing manufacturers to make certain hardware? That I truly doubt. Google has made it possible to work with different devices by allowing you to query for different device features such as checking for a keyboard or a trackball or an accelerometer, use resolution independent practices such as DP measurements and relative positioning, it's not as bad as it seems IMO.
different hardware configs/specs (ram, storage, processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...
Tubular said:
I thought the name of the game was resolution independence, designing your UI's without depending on absolute values but rather relative values and taking into account resolution size, using DP measurement units instead of PX. The last time I worked on an app was a while ago but even then the app scaled fine from something as small as a Droid 2 to something as large (was large at the time) as a Nook Color or a Galaxy Tab.
So are you saying Apple has it better because they only have two screen sizes? Who cares if there are fifty different screen sizes and fifty different resolutions? If you design your UI and your app correctly with resolution independence in mind it should scale well to most if not every resolution and every aspect ratio shouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, a lot of work is done to make things resolution independent. But this is not always easy when you want to have some really complex games designed which is heavy on 2D UI. Full screen dialog boxes, Floating UI options etc. are all part of many big game titles developed and ends up being incredibly hard to port across multiple resolutions/aspect ratios. Try looking at some of the user reviews on games - people complain about the smallest of things and randomly throw in a 1 star rating. For a development company, ratings are everything. If your app gets low ratings, it goes unnoticed and thereby killing your chances of earning decent revenues for breaking even - let alone profitability! The cost of development goes up due to higher requirements for development & testing (multiple devices and other fragmentation issues).
Are you referring to certain things like how device GPU's vary and therefore certain texture compression methods in OpenGL for example only work with ATI GPU's and not PowerVR GPU's and vice versa?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Several things here - PVR textures, many open gl calls behave differently on certain devices - for instance the filtering doesnt work as expected on the samsung line of devices because they have their own driver tweaks applied, some devices crash out on a minor opengl warning, while the other devices ignore and continue to run etc. The point here is, you cant see it running on 1 "TYPE" of device which represents a family (same res, performance specs) and assume it will run on the rest. You can release and iteratively respond to user feedback - but you risk getting low ratings and then your game gets buried under.
So? What developer hasn't had to deal with this on virtually every system developed on since the origin of computing? Because Apple managed to create an illusion that this is irrelevant by making a handful of devices with fixed hardware and therefore only having to achieve acceptable performance on those devices? Make the decision to alienate those who don't fit the requirements. Alienating a certain group from support isn't going to be the end of the world. Games are sure to use Tegra 3 and those without Tegra 3 devices might be assed out if the game can't scale down. The world continues...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[/QUOTE]
When you build games, the objective is to provide the best graphics to the end user with excellent gameplay. Now, if i have to support several hardware configurations i either have a fallback mechanism to have lower quality on lower device (more dev effort, more costs, more testing), or reduce overall quality of graphics all across (bad quality game - low ratings, low revenues), blacklist lower specced devices (killing potential market share - cutting total revenues, risking break even). This becomes extremely critical especially because the games and apps are sold for a measly $1 and every sale is important!
silversx80 said:
Second, games from the big developers may be released on iOS first, and some may be released on Android first. Without references, your statement in invalid. If you're only referring to your company, then specify that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all developers need to follow this. But any large sized company will invariably follow this approach - mainly from the point of view of monetization. Right now, the fact is, Android is yet not a platform where the big bucks come from. Its still unfortunately the damn fruit company. And the sheer fact about the difficulty in have a game run on android is a deterrent to release on android first. Its much easier to finish a game for ios, throw it on the marketplace, and quickly see how the game did. If people like it, and you made decent revenues, then you could expand to android - which would take a lot more time, money, effort.
Fourth, the whole reason big mobile-platform app developer companies exist is to make money. Why alienate more than 50% of the market because of screen resolution? That would be lazy and counter-productive to profits.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true, and thats what i mean by the effort it takes on testing and development makes it a costlier bet! Imagine the capital investment - to house all the phones to test on!
I feel that you're upset over Android making it harder for you to earn a paycheck. I understand the challenges involved, but I think you're not looking at the big picture.
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I barely find it hard to earn my paycheck Its my company which has to invest the $$$ to get every game out of the door to hit android markets! And just seeing all the chaos involved in shipping an android title, just makes me wonder why google has made this so complicated! If i have to think from the perspective of having my own startup company making android games - it would give me shivers! Not all companies have the lucky streak of Rovio and those few company that i could handcount.
-San