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i sure hope these get fixed in the coming months by our devs and cooks
i just got a chance to play with an old ATOM EXEC (64mb,qvga,520mhz.no 3g...etc). i was amazed on how much faster and snappier the device. i know that the screen has one fifth the pixels, but not everything is depending on graphics. here are some things i noticed ive grouped them into 5 differnt "benchmark classes
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
2-opening the windows directory takes about 1.5 seconds vs 4-5 seconds on my itje's 3.5rc1(one of the fastest roms i have tested. cold booting takes about half the time but thats to be expected due to the smaller windows folder.
3-opening demo PocketArtist is 6 seconds vs 8 on x1.
4-youtube videos using the application @normal quality setting does not lag at all. on my x1 it does sometimes when it is viewing while its finishing the download over wifi. m2d was not as good looking as tf3d but its so much smoother
5-navigating various parts of the OS (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) was just noticeably snappier on the EXEC. switching to landscape was faster on the X1 though
while the experience of the x1 is clearly better due to the screen,resolution,other phone features and all, i just cant but feel extremely disappointed with how things currently are especially the first observation.
I'm really interested in our cooks opinion on how performance may end up being improved in a major way in the coming few months in any of the above situations. I'm obviously interested in the first point as its very easy to notice compared to the other points. can we expect something worthwhile in terms of performance in wm6.5
btw i also tested a cooked dutty v4 htc diamond and i dont think the diamond was much better than the x1 in the performance.
I don't know if your x1 is customised or what, but so far my take is the X1 is the fastest winmo phones I ever own in the last few years, considering those I have owned include both smartphone and professional, wm5 and wm6 (touch pro, samsung i780, omnia, treo 500v, moto q9h, etc)
that reply was more fanboish than i would like it to be . i think the X1 (despite some problems) is the best htc phone made. but current generation QC-based phones (x1,tpro,hd and diamond) seem to be suffering from a performance problem and im not sure whats at blame.
are you noticing better performance than me?????? im using itje 3.5rc1
1- anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
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na....im totalli with you that ATOM EXEC is way faster than X1. no doubt. my frnd got an atom. but u hav 2 consider this
1. x1 resoution is 5times more as you said. thats like going from 800x600 resolution to 1920x1250. dats a HUGE jump and just imagine if just a ram and cpu upgrade is enogh to handle that kind of load.
2. also, i noticed that you r running tf3d. now installing that copies bout 1400 files into your windows folder. dat will take time.
3 .i don agree with apps running faster. youtube or PocketArtist, both run lot faster on x1.
4. navigation (for example jumping from programs to settings-> clock-> connections - activesync- connections...etc) is faster because, there are more things installed in you x1 than in your atom. also dont forget the fact that atom runs on lower resolution. a QVGA app that takes 200KB of RAM might take upto 2MB of ram when converted to WVGA.
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
THE GRIZZ said:
im not the best guy to understand the problem and the solution but if i were to guess it could be one or more of the following :
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory 2-unoptimised code in apps for w/vga
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
4-none of the common apps i mentioned makes use of the hardware(which means that they will be slow even on tegra + 1ghz cpus
5-HTC/SE made a bad design by putting slow cpu/graphics on a WVGA screen. they are biting more than what they can chew
as mentioned earlier. can we realistically expect a major change in performance if the cooks and devs here focus their effort on improving this
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well first thing as mention your running TF3d and that take up alot of the speed on your x1 i did reinstall of my phone to the newest orginal rom from se without any kind of tf3d and gotta say my phone was twice as fast when it had tf3d on it..also most of todays apps are not optimized for the newest phones out on the marked second try some real test with some games (eks Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 - Call of Duty 2 -) (convert some mp3s or videos on the phone) Test with some emulators like fpsece - pocketsnes - picodrive then you will hopefully see what your x1 is good for
i noticed when i have lot of apps open ..the phone becomes slow..and simple functions such as opening Menu's takes more than 1 second.
so when this happens.,..i use the 'FreeRam' of SKTools...and clear up everything.
then it becomes fast as before.
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
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One of the major problems here is windows mobile. It's just a mess.
Another is the resolution. Even on 2d, it makes a hell lot of difference. There's like ... 500% more pixels, with only 50% more performance.
THE GRIZZ said:
lets not get sidetracked from the main issue that our x1(HD,tpro,diamond also) performs quite badly in certain 2D graphics applications as i mentioned in the first post. can the graphics accelerator on our x1 be used to accelerate.
the iphone had a 400mhz CPU with no graphics acceleration and half the memory and the interface of all its apps looks slick, smooth and cool. if the iphone can do this with its hardware, how come our phone cant. i think there is more to this then the resolution
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If you did look around in XDA, you should know that Qualcomm's CPU is well known for it poor performance (especially for 2D/3D). X1/HD is already the best you can get compare to Kaiser but still far left behind PDA w/ Intel Xscale CPU. See for yourself for Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYimU-VHM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6JyfmuPU&feature=related
Since it's bascially a hardware issue, there is not much we can do on it performance side. But X1 still my best one I can get base on it's overall features (3.5mm audio, USB 2.0, WVGA, UTMS w/ US's 850/1900), build quality, form factor, and of course it's look.
iPhone? It does have PowerVR chipset for graphic acceleration. And it's simply a joke for this date if I have to give up multi-tasking (for all 3rd party apps) for it's smooth and cool factor. My X1 is a workhorse and I want it to run IGo8 w/ Coreplayer player over A2DP/AVRCP concurrently.
Resolution does indeed play a big role. When I launch a program that needs WGAFIXv3 running, i notice how the framerate is practically doubled....
Hopefully Windows Mobile 6.5 will do justice just as Windows 7 is doing TREMENDOUS justice in terms of speed/performance. I finally appreciate the direction Microsoft is taking. It seems that ever since the introduction of Windows Media Player 7 (all versions up to 6 loaded in a SNAP and then 7 and up started taking forever to open unless you upgrade to the latest/fastest PC), back in the day, Microsoft's norm was to build more and more bulkier mega-code-loading software and this rubbed off on the mobile side of things too. Even SQL Server Express 2005 takes sooooooo long to load on PC's. Everything of theirs needed soooo much disk access to open up until Windows 7 came along.
So yeah I'm hoping a slimlined approach on the mobile platform will redeem the Windows Mobile brand
Diamond vs. Asus P565 (the current performance king):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZHYi...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCI6J...eature=related
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these things in the video are very CPU intensive stuff. the stuff im complaining about is far simpler stuff
i am talking about simple none 2d graphics intensive image scrolling and simple dialog boxes movements. surly this stuff is not that hard to handle. decoding mpeg4 video at full screen is surly FAAAAAR more work and yet the x1 does an OK job hadling it. choking at something like displaying dialog boxes, schrolling screen full of text, handling menu selections...etc fingermenu,ucweb, miniflow, album, s2v are hardly graphics intensive stuff
question: is anyone noticing much better results then mine on a lite or even naked ROM
anything with any graphics effects(non 3d) like scrolling rotating...etc is infinitely smoother and cooler despite the lower resolution and crappier image quality. pointUI2 was a solid50fps vs only ~20fps on x1, fingermenu 1.10 was about 15-20fps vs only about 5fps, miniflow was about 30 fps vs an unusable ~5-6fps. zooming and panning with htc image viewer was butter smooth unlike the "good enough" on the x1. scrolling and navigating in UCweb feels a lot smoother on the atom
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I have replied to your post on the Turbo X1 thread, there are some answers, but maybe not the magic bullet you and I have been both looking for.
after messing around to get speedbooster to work. i managed assign higher priority to some of the apps that are suffering. its giving some worthwhile enhancements nothing major though.
im begening to think that the only way we can get get improved performance and iphone-like "experiance" is for all the software need to be re-written to use the graphics hardware of the QC chipset. that does not look very likely even on future software since the majority of the avalable phones dont have it. writing software for wm requires it to be written for the lowest common denomiator hardware.
software for LCD hardware will continue to make WM software a bit ugly for a very long time indeed
I am quite mystified by threads such as these but I put it down to two things... 1, I am not such an intense nor knowledgable user as the OP of the thread and 2, I dont use my phone in the same way or do not expect it to be used as I would my laptop or have the same level of software as the OP of the thread...
TBH I have been amazed by the capability of this phone and am pleasantly surprised time and again by its speed, functionality and performance... most of my programs are up and running in incredibly short order, I can access menus and the like almost instantaneously and even the windows folder (previously the worst folder to access using file explorer time wise) is much faster now when I open it... (I have upgraded to the R2A ROM and its much much better)... I find that videos are very watchable and play with no lag and the audio/video in sync... overall its exactly what it says on the tin in my ever so humble experience... although in my own admission I am not very savvy when it comes to these things so perhaps I am misunderstanding the fact that it is supposed to be as fast and capable as my laptop...
even the new generation htc phones (diamond2, touchpro2 )are using the same QC msm7200a present in all common WM w/vga phones http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchdiamond2/specification.html .
i think its about time software development should focused on creeating two versions of the same software
-qvga for compatibility with any phohe (including non graphics accelerated vga phones)
-w/vga version with hardware acceleration since all htcphones released since the kiaser use it
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
THE GRIZZ said:
Shadowdh, i think the x1 is the best htc-made phone ever. but i dont understand why many people(you included) are ignoring (or not noticing) the fact that its quite slow in certain aspects that i have highlighted in the first post
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The Grizz,
I believe it's similar to the whole issue of being able to notice "ghosting" on LCD screens. I personally know what it is, but yet I don't care enough to want to bother about it. For others, some people may not know what ghosting is until you show it to them and once you have "opened their eyes", they irrevocably develop the habit of constantly taking note as it happens on their screens.
And I believe this is ultimately the same issue with the issues you describe. Some people are just really content and amazed with the fact that such a small little bugger can still pack a punch. Sure, it'll slip up once or there, but for the most part, people are happy with what they've spent on the phone.
My 3 cents,
Cheers.
THE GRIZZ said:
1- very slow performing on-board flash memory
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Maybe the SD card tuneup could help you speeding up the off-board flash memory goving you more speed from SDHC then internal flash...
THE GRIZZ said:
3- used 528mhz cpu is not fast enough
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One of the basic science rules is: if you gain on one thing you have to give in on other things.
Higher speed means higher power consumption. In time a higher speed will be possible with the same power consumption because the cpu size becomes smaller. But for that you will have to wait.
So what do you want? A speedy phone with unacceptable power consumption or do you want to timetravel to get the newest technology before we can imagine how it should look like ?
My HD is barely a year old and i heard so many folks saying it is pointless..
i am hoping users who have both device can help.
My main dislikes of HD.
1) Video playback performance
2) System is sluggish. Even with custom roms
3) Camera is BAD. REAL BAD.
4) I always have misfires while typing. wrong letters etc.
5) Not so good batt. life.
does the HD2 solve all this and beyond? thanks so much.
I'm not an HD2 owner but I think I can fairly state that:
1) the device has been proven to be able to play very high resolution videos flawlessly;
2) system response is blazing fast, even with heavy-ass Sense 2.5;
3) camera is not really much better quality-wise, but you get a powerful flash and, most important, there's almost no lag at all between you clicking and the picture being taken;
4) the screen is considerably bigger and so will be the keyboard, accordingly;
5) numbers seem to indicate that battery life will not improve, but I'd ask owners first on this one.
Rizlo said:
I'm not an HD2 owner but I think I can fairly state that:
1) the device has been proven to be able to play very high resolution videos flawlessly;
2) system response is blazing fast, even with heavy-ass Sense 2.5;
3) camera is not really much better quality-wise, but you get a powerful flash and, most important, there's almost no lag at all between you clicking and the picture being taken;
4) the screen is considerably bigger and so will be the keyboard, accordingly;
5) numbers seem to indicate that battery life will not improve, but I'd ask owners first on this one.
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lol heavy-ass Sense 2.5
1) and 2) HD2 is infinitely better. I sold my HD to a colleague and tried to use it yesterday. I don't know how I tolerated it.
3) I don't know where and how you guys take pictures, but, as far as I'm concerned, HD2's camera is miles better that HD's one. I mean, with this camera I can actually take pictures in real life circumstances. The reason is that it is very fast. HD's camera took so long to focus and take the shot that the scene often changed several times by the end. Sure, these pictures won't make me a famous photographer, and for something really good I'll use my dedicated camera, but for occasional snapshots of friends and places it's good enough finally. HD was completely useless for me in this area.
4) is an issue of permanent flame wars here. Its very subjective. It was difficult for me to get used to it because of the capacitive screen and strong habits of using resistive touchscreen devices. Your taps may be registered in slightly different locations compared to what you may expect at first. With resistive, the tap happens where you press hardest, here it depends on the shape of your finger. People who've never used resistive seem to deal just fine with my keyboard. Also, HD2's keyboard wasn't modified by HTC properly for the capacitive screen. It needs to support multitouch and space buttons a bit further away from each other. But all in all, after a little getting used to, I type at least as fast as I did on HD2. Maybe even faster.
5) It's difficult to say. My HD lasted for 1.5 days (a full day, a full night in standby and another full day) easily. I've not been able to get this with HD2. But! I use it much more. For the first few days I caught myself turning it on and watching the silly weather animation on the home screen every five minutes. Disabling this animation seems to have increased battery life, even if by giving me fewer reasons to turn the phone on. I think that 1.5 days is achievable when my usage normalizes.
1) My HD2 plays all of my movies with out and problems, nice and smooth.
2) Doesnt slow down, pretty much ever, there is the occasion bit now and then, but thats very very rare! And with new roms it can only get better!
3) Camera is actually really, VERY VERY good.
4) Keyboard is really good if you leave XT9 on.
5) Battery life isnt that bad, obviously it could be better, but it lasts me a day and thats all I need.
Mate, there has been so many of these threads started already. I haven't commented on any but coming from a HD and loving it there really is no competition. The HD2 is literally twice the device the HD was. Its not that much bigger, 1ghz under the hood, upgradeable to WM7 etc etc etc. The only slight annoyance is the battery life is crap!! I use mine for work so get lots of calls and emails, barely lasts a day!
Other than this the HD2 is the best device (arguably) ever invented, it is that good.
DB
donbronzi said:
Mate, there has been so many of these threads started already. I haven't commented on any but coming from a HD and loving it there really is no competition. The HD2 is literally twice the device the HD was. Its not that much bigger, 1ghz under the hood, upgradeable to WM7 etc etc etc. The only slight annoyance is the battery life is crap!! I use mine for work so get lots of calls and emails, barely lasts a day!
Other than this the HD2 is the best device (arguably) ever invented, it is that good.
DB
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Not really anything to add to that. Some people have beefs and believe that not agreeing with them means you are lying, but they're just idiots. There's about 99% praise for this phone on these forums, and we're not fanboys. We're just glad to own something so good.
Get one. Get one now
I'd pretty much agree with vangreig. except to say i find typing in landscape is a joy, im almost as fast typing with this now as with the advantage hard keyboard, and if it doesnt appeal swype works pretty well as well. will be interesting too see which way htc go with the keyboard, it could support multitouch easily and by the looks if things htc are throwing plenty of roms out..
I'm upto about 36 hrs of battery life with heavy use, plenty of tweaks in there.
personally i think there is no comparison really between hd and hd2, i tried my hd2 after a weekend with the hd2, and went and immediately sold it...
I add a Touch Pro 2 before. TP2 is the same than HD but with a full keypad.. so I've some advice abotu your post :
2) System is sluggish. Even with custom roms
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System is stable, and fast. VERY fast. i didn't got any pb with it.
3) Camera is BAD. REAL BAD.
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The resolution of photos is better, but qualitiy looks like the same. I think.
4) I always have misfires while typing. wrong letters etc.
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The capacitive screen of an HD2 is really different from the resistive your HD. It's hard to explain, but REALLY better. On answer to this problem, is that whit a resistive screen, if you're taping TWO differents keys on your virtual keypad, you'll get a mistake (the screen will takes the letter at the middle of the both). Whith capacitive screen, they won't be any problem, the second letter tapped will not be considered. So, YES, the HD2 screen is REALLY better for it ! ;D
5) Not so good batt. life.
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With my TP2 (is think he has a better batery than HD), I had a batery life of 2-3 days. With my HD2, I get only 1 day, using WMLongLife program (auto-switching to 2G-3G when needed). The batery is suffisant. Not exceptional, but really suffisant Moreover, at the end of the day (9:00 pm), I'm about 3% (xD) but I use my phone EVERY hour (which I didn't with TP2). =)
Hope it helps you !
vangrieg said:
(...) with this camera I can actually take pictures in real life circumstances. The reason is that it is very fast. HD's camera took so long to focus and take the shot that the scene often changed several times by the end.
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I think this is what really matters, the real major breakthrough we were all expecting for the camera.
johncmolyneux said:
Get one. Get one now
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Hahahaha JEEEEEEEEEEEZ I'm so horribly tempted
If you are really ready to open the back to reset the machine every day, yes you can buy it now.
biranouran said:
If you are really ready to open the back to reset the machine every day, yes you can buy it now.
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That's an exaggeration. I do that maybe twice a week, but I play with it a LOT, and by play, I mean hack about.
Anyway, if the worst thing it does is mean you have to press a small red button once a day, YES!!!! Get it!
Rizlo said:
3) camera is not really much better quality-wise, but you get a powerful flash and, most important, there's almost no lag at all between you clicking and the picture being taken;
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I wish, the lag is about three seconds. Taking photos of my baby son is almost impossible. Still, I love the camera, especially the touch focus ability.
Pagnell said:
I wish, the lag is about three seconds. Taking photos of my baby son is almost impossible. Still, I love the camera, especially the touch focus ability.
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ISO 400 should do the trick, if not go 800.
Had the HD2 for over 3 weeks now, only once did I soft reset my device, and that was to get some changes to take effect.
erosennin said:
ISO 400 should do the trick, if not go 800.
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ISO settings only adjust the shutter speed. The problem here is the time it takes between pressing the "button" to take a picture, and the device actually doing it.
biranouran said:
If you are really ready to open the back to reset the machine every day, yes you can buy it now.
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You can simply load a software soft reset button such as Raisaks and lots of others, theres one in the tweak thread too with a nice Icon. No need to take back cover off.
I changed from the HD to the HD2 but then took the HD2 back as I could not adjust to the size of the device! It's like a tablet PC rather than a PDA. That was the only let down for me. Everytime I picked it up I just thought "This is too big".
Luckly I was able to return it to O2 for a full refund and they cancelled the 18 month contract. Im now back to my HD and love it to bits.
The HD2 was faster... Much faster infact and the camera was so much quicker at taking pictures. Also the multi-touch screen was very good. I had problems typing on the phone as it was too sensitive. The slightest movement of you finger would select the key to the side.
In my opinion I would have liked the HD2 specs to be inside the HD case and keep that size. Now that would have been a great phone.
Re camera speed, I certainly don't have anything remotely close to a 3 second delay. There are videos out there showing HD2 taking pictures - it's near instant, and that's been my experience. Maybe the reason you think there is a delay is that you confuse the preview you get after taking a picture for it?
I went from a Touch HD to the HD2 and am very happy.
Battery life is slightly poorer than the HD but adding the tweaks here has helped I can get through from 8:00am to 11:00pm comfortably, which is enough for me. Oh and +1 on the keep switching on to play and watch the weather animation.
Typing takes some getting used to moving from the Resistive screen to the Capacitive screen, takes some practice, but the experience is better once a little effort has been put in.
These are the only caveats I could point out, the HD2 is superior to the HD in every way and, in my opinion, the best that money can buy.
Pagnell said:
I wish, the lag is about three seconds. Taking photos of my baby son is almost impossible. Still, I love the camera, especially the touch focus ability.
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Now, if that's true you might consider to do a hard reset. It's not supposed to behave that way.
On topic: I had HD before HD2 and it's like day and night in all aspects (yes also in the aspect of the keyboard ) and I would'nt switch back even if I got paid. Actually I would'nt want to switch to any other phone after getting used to the HD2. I love it and when hardspl is done which will make us able to cook some fresh ROM's, well then we'll have a real iPhone killer for sure.
OK - so aside from bias/ability to afford/shipping/tax/price or other logistical factor - can we have a show of hands as to who has already bought a HD2 and has something to say - particularly what about the device makes you happy, what makes you sad?
Let's try keep it away from supplier/delivery issues or local network/band/signal issues - just pure usability/hardware/software.
Personally after trying one out in a store last week I finally received the experience I feel you want when moving to a PDA from a smart phone. What does our community think after using it for a while?
noofny said:
OK - so aside from bias/ability to afford/shipping/tax/price or other logistical factor - can we have a show of hands as to who has already bought a HD2 and has something to say - particularly what about the device makes you happy, what makes you sad?
Let's try keep it away from supplier/delivery issues or local network/band/signal issues - just pure usability/hardware/software.
Personally after trying one out in a store last week I finally received the experience I feel you want when moving to a PDA from a smart phone. What does our community think after using it for a while?
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too subjective a question....for every person on here that says get it, there will be one that says don't get it.
the final decision must be yours....nobody here can make your decision for you. Make a list of the important things for you in a phone, then find the phone that matches those needs the best.
for example, I think the iphone has a much nicer interface, more apps, better screen (touch interface, not size or clarity), but for me it just doesn't handle business functions very well and that made me choose the HD2 since this was my primary need.
if you do the same process you might find the ideal phone for you
I got mine on Sunday just gone, was an upgrade from a Diamond. I loved my diamond, but as soon as I had setup my HD2 with contacts and apps etc I was loving this even more. Each time I use it I find something new, like facebook linking, then seeing in a contact card all communications with that person.
I'm yet to use the footprints, but look forward to trying it out.
The main thing for me was the screen size, I always had problems with the tiny diamond screen, but this is so crisp, easier to use and much easier to keyboard with.
Also the damn speed of the device is amazing, so fast, the OS loads so quick. I soft resetted it and put it down to expect a few minutes wait like on the diamond, but was rebooted so quick!
The one thing I would love to see is a facebook tab, like the twitter tab, shame they didn't implement that!
The specs that come with this phone are truely awesome, and that was the overall selling point for me, as I knew how good HTC phones were I just had to have something with the specs that this phone comes with.
twisted-pixel - good point about the subjectiveness. I suppose what I'm fishing for here are peoples post-usage horror/love stories - moreso with regard to hardware and usability. It's a nice big screen but it's also a nice big slab of tech - how do you find the size, whats the battery life like, do you notice anything bad about the capacitive screen, how often (if ever) do you feel the need for a stylus and say 'doh', does the headphone port become dodgy after use - or the micro usb port? I suppose because of this community we all have flexibility and solutions around software, so I meant to make this more hardware related I guess.
noofny said:
twisted-pixel - good point about the subjectiveness. I suppose what I'm fishing for here are peoples post-usage horror/love stories - moreso with regard to hardware and usability. It's a nice big screen but it's also a nice big slab of tech - how do you find the size, whats the battery life like, do you notice anything bad about the capacitive screen, how often (if ever) do you feel the need for a stylus and say 'doh', does the headphone port become dodgy after use - or the micro usb port? I suppose because of this community we all have flexibility and solutions around software, so I meant to make this more hardware related I guess.
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Click to collapse
I admit to loving the phone...with one exception...the sensitivity of the screen is a complete disaster for me. it's very difficult to type on, someones it responds to the slightest touch, other times it doesn't. accuracy is also an issue (that was to be expected on a screen with high resolution I suppose)
and yes, I've tried all the tweaks going before anyone suggests it (currently running v3.3 of the tweak with sensitivity on)
I think if I had come straight from my HD then I would have been impressed, but I come from an iphone where the screen was a delight to use.
however, the rest of the phone makes up for that small failing.
noofny said:
twisted-pixel - good point about the subjectiveness. I suppose what I'm fishing for here are peoples post-usage horror/love stories - moreso with regard to hardware and usability. It's a nice big screen but it's also a nice big slab of tech - how do you find the size, whats the battery life like, do you notice anything bad about the capacitive screen, how often (if ever) do you feel the need for a stylus and say 'doh', does the headphone port become dodgy after use - or the micro usb port? I suppose because of this community we all have flexibility and solutions around software, so I meant to make this more hardware related I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, you will find more people venting than praising any device on this forum, as people only seek help when they have problems.
I must admit, I personally think it is the best device I have ever used.
For a quick overview from me (in comparison to the X1, but most comments are applicable):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=5667230&postcount=6
I stumbled on this video on youtube;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-3Bi-Eg2gQ
...and love his brutal (albeit bias and sometimes naive) honesty, it helps you make a decision because it's not a rant. So far you guys are proving some intelligent feedback also - so thank you and let's keep it coming!
I got the HD2 the day it was available in my country (one of the first in europe) and despite all the fixes and xda-dev recommendations i couldn't have it for more then 1 weekend. I sold it on monday morning.
I hated typing (i did try the keyboard cab which should lower the sensitivity), loading sms with some exchanged texts already (loading was awful for such powerful device), visibility outside was horrible, battery,..
Maybe my rant will be understanded better if i mention i'm a blackberry user that likes to try out new "hot phones" (no matter which brand or type of usage).
I've also tried the Nexus One and would say i liked it a tiny bit better then HD2, but still couldn't have it for more then a week.
So, why am i writing this.. After MWC last week, i've kind of wanted to give HD2 another shot. For the following reasons..
I've came across some nice taskbar buttons (which make it look so much better..), I saw there is a fix for sms loading time, i guess i could always install a different keyboard,.. and most imortantly i got a very nice (cheap) offer for a brand new HD2. Yesterday i even ordered a nice case (didn't like the one that comes in the box) and a screenprotector (which might reduce the fingerprints, which i hated so much and a visibility outside,.. hope i'm not too optimistic).
If i somehow manage to be happy with HD2, i might even go for the exnteded battery. And i'm kind of feeling the hype for WinMo7 rom for this device.. Don't know if it will be any better or worse, i just know there is some excitement about it
Hope my rant / "long mess" didn't bore you too much
+1 to buy with eyes closed.
OK, this will be quick because I'm supposed to be doing something else right now but anyway...
I've just sent my HD2 back because of a problem with the microphone so if anyone should be telling you to think of other alternatives - it should be me.
But I can't because I love the phone. It's fast, responsive, it's got most of the features that you could ever want (minus USB host), the screen is gorgeous and the interface is pretty damn usable.
It's not perfect however... Customising it is more trouble than it should be. There is a slight pink hue in the middle of the camera when the contrast and saturation are turned up high enough to make the colours look half lifelike and when the screen is completely white, at certain angles you can see the grid dots that make the screen's matrix.
So to resume, if you don't mind spending some time on it and you're not completely obsessive about things being absolutely perfect (I am and I can still get to sleep at night) then you should be very happy with an HD2.
NeoGreendawg said:
There is a slight pink hue in the middle of the camera when the contrast and saturation are turned up high enough to make the colours look half lifelike and when the screen is completely white, at certain angles you can see the grid dots that make the screen's matrix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The pink hue is solved with an update from HTC (here)
The dots are also visible on an iPhone, its down to the technology, not the device alone.
rp-x1 said:
The pink hue is solved with an update from HTC (here)
The dots are also visible on an iPhone, its down to the technology, not the device alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm sorry but the HTC hotfix did slightly improve the issue but it certainly didn't resolve it in my case. I love the phone believe me but I somehow doubt that anyone who isn't employed by HTC or affected by Daltonism could honestly claim that it has completely solved the issue.
Edit : Not trying to be rude or make out that it's a deal-breaker but I know that as a potential buyer I'd want to know about it.
I've had the HD2 for three weeks and use it every day. I also end up resetting it every day. I've come from a Nokia N96 and before that the N73, so I'm comparing it to the N96. I am very pleased with the speed of the phone and how operations take way less than a second to perform, instead of several seconds a la N96.
The phone itself is a bit too big. Perhaps a 4 inch screen would have been enough. Even though I have big hands, it's just too big to walk around and hold the phone with one hand. I'm scared of dropping it. The headphone port's on the bottom of the phone - it causes the cable to tangle up around the phone when in a pocket.
I have found plenty of bugs in the stock O2 1.43 firmware and know how to deal with the main ones.
I didn't realise the phone had an FM tuner until I found it after a few days on the Start menu - I used the N96 FM tuner almost every day. Unfortunately the tuner on the HD2 is really poor. It is unable to obtain a good quality signal. Sound dips out. There's an awful lot of interference in places where the N96 would have relayed a good quality signal. In places where the N96 got a poor signal, the HD2 has static. BBC Radio 1 has the most powerful signal in my area, yet the HD2 fails to get consistent reception. There's just too much interference and I often just shut the radio off. A huge let down; I wonder if it's hardware or software at fault.
The N96 music player was very well featured, but incredibly (pathetically) slow. In contrast, the HTC Music app has no such delays, is very fast but somewhat basic in comparison. A lot of cool N96 features are missing; there's no way to call up the keyboard to locate tracks, track details can't be edited, tracks can't be deleted, backing out of an album takes you to the top of the album list and not to where you were. There's no hardware buttons to change tracks when the phone's in a pocket (a swipe up/down on the lock screen to change tracks would be nice). Volume control has too few stages so is either too loud or too quiet; volume within the Music tab has more stages but doesn't always work (error in Services.exe). General audio quality is rather poor - even the iPod classic 5G sounds better! Occasional unexplained sound dips and audio which lacks in bass and treble. The oddest thing is the shuffle feature tends to replay swathes of tracks that have already been played.
Video playback is very impressive because of the screen size. Can't fathom why the Windows Mobile OS cannot play WMV. Get quite a few dropped frames and put that down to the poor quality 1.43 ROM and perhaps not-fully-developed decoders. Video viewing in general is very nice, although an afterthought within HTC Sense, as the video playback has essentially just been tacked on to HTC's photo viewing app.
I do like the phone, it is good enough to stop me wanting to go back to my last phone. I'd get one, but the HD2's not quite the tech lover's wet dream that some of the big review sites make it out to be. Having bought it from the O2 network, I'll seriously doubt I'll ever be able to officially upgrade the firmware (HTC isn't even listed on their software upgrade pages), so I'll have to learn alternative methods one of these days to see if I can iron out some of the bugs!
Wish they would just whack a snapdragon and capacitive screen in a HD and re-release it....think that would satisfy a lotta folks. Cheers all for your input, it's really helping me to set realistic expectations.
I was contemplating on whether I should buy a Nexus One instead of the HD2, but I decided to go for the HD2 instead because it was cheaper, had a nice screen resolution, specifications don't differ much between both devices, and i'm looking forward to the Windows 7 release on the HD2
i am currently contemplating to switch from HD to HD2....is it worth it?
Buy it!
I come from the HD. The HD2 is what the HD should have been from the first instance.
Fantastic:
- speed (and I am using a stock French Orange ROM based on 1.43!)
- screen
- usability
As far as precision is concerned: I need a phone to check and type (even long) emails, and read documents. XT9 works just great, but even in ABC mode in landscape the accuracy is pretty good (and I type fast!).
If you need to play around with programs using stylus-based input, yes, then it gets really annoying (try to edit your registry in Total Commander and you'll get crazy).
In summary: if you want to tweak it like crazy all the time or intensively use older programs with small menus, then consider buying an alternative with a resistive screen and a stylus. But if you actually want to USE your phone with the standard applications, just buy it and you'll get the best of the market today imo!
to buy or not
i have it for a month after the trinity.
sorry but it hasnot voice call
no handwriting recognition
battery ends quickley
no video call
no .chm file reader
all of these were on the trinity.
so i am sorry buing it
Mastoid said:
I was contemplating on whether I should buy a Nexus One instead of the HD2, but I decided to go for the HD2 instead because it was cheaper, had a nice screen resolution, specifications don't differ much between both devices, and i'm looking forward to the Windows 7 release on the HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you do realize that there may eventually never be a WP7 release for the HD2?
rottttman said:
i have it for a month after the trinity.
sorry but it hasnot voice call
no handwriting recognition
battery ends quickley
no video call
no .chm file reader
all of these were on the trinity.
so i am sorry buing it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U'd better search for infos about the phone after buying it
Hey everyone,
I'm sorry my first post couldn't be of much benefit to anyone, but well, I joined these forums so I could learn and then hopefully contribute to the community as well.
My question is,
For a casual multimedia user and a heavy web browser like myself, what would be the better phone? the Leo or the Nokia N900?
I prefer the Leo because of it's larger screen, faster processor, customization ability and plus, WM just feels like home
However, I've heard complaints from many saying that the speaker is too distorted, the keyboard is rubbish and the touchscreen is oversensitive. Now, these are complete dealbreakers for me and even if I can live with the speaker, I need to have a proper, usable keyboard and an intuitive interface, which the N900 already has.
I'm also pretty concerned about the audio sync issue, on EVERY HD2, that occurs on videos making the audio usually lag behind the video about 100-250ms. That, alone, is worth making me not consider the device, despite it's strengths against every other phone.
For this reason, I can't really decide on which to buy and have come to you guys for suggestions.
Thanks in advance
Well first the leo..
You got a large screen Looking tv is simply amazing. The design of the leo is so slim ok the n900 has keyboard but it could be thinner for a qwerty slider.The second question how long do you use your phone 2 years or more?
The HD2 have very large ram and a fast proccesor. It future proof. If there comes a new version of windows or a cool android port big possibility that the hardware is capable of running the new OS. For the rest there are much more apps for the htc you can choose different navigation software and more. But oke the n900 is growing. In my eyes the hardware (exceptbattery and the glass of the screen wich can break) the device is solid as rock wifi, gps it al works nice and fast. Normally your device will be looking as new. Evrything fits nicely to gether no dust in the device etc... BUT one disadvantage you need to tweak your device flashing a custom rom installing some needed things cookies hometab, Srs wow hd, a better movie player. But ones done your device is perfect fast, the battery hold a long day. And you got a great device. About the touchscreen and keyboard if you practice with you can learn how to type with. But for the rest the touchscreen works good it is sensetive reactes fine in my opnion. Ok this was the LEO.
You can make windows perfect for you.
N900
Good device lots of linux developers. Works good maybe a bit better out of the box then leo. But less apps. The device is thicker. But the opterating system is a bit smarter. The device is in my opnion uglyer than leo.
Conclusion:
If you like a little bit tweaking and not to noob with electronics. And dont gonna cry if you installed a program that make your device unstable. And not the first thing that you are gonna do is calling htc if you got problems. Then you will love your htc hd2.
If you are a customer that not is intrested in the device it self and you hate complicated things etc.. than choose the n900
It is like this
OS:
N900 Good/very good
LEO Good
OS after tweaking
N900 Good/very good
LEO Ultimate (greatest possibilities of a mobile device).
But in fact of hardware hd2 always powns with any phon
But the N900 is more intuintive.
But if you don't change settings evryday. Sense works simply and intuintive in my opnion.
Only if you are wanna play a XVID (example) you need 3d party apss with are not always intuitnive.
It works fine stable and with cookies hometab perfect.
in my oppinion the leo is the best phone i´ve had, but it all depends on the users needs, interrest and the time u want to spend customizing the phone to your needs and likings... ..
my advice would be try out but phones in a shop and take the one you like the best... ...
cheers
ps. NEVER experienced oversensitivity on my leo´s screen, and the keyboard is easy to use when u get used to it, otherwise there are alot of alternatives to the winmobile keyboard..
I'm don't know N900 too much but I have some inputs about the HD2 that you will like!
The touch screen has been a bit sensitive, I love the sensitivity BUT it gets in the way when typing on the keyboard, making it suck big time kick ass hard!
However, I just flashed to the Artemis v14 ROM (which is a custom ROM if you didn't get that far in your research).
To my big surprise, either because I forgot to turn off the vibration feedback, or the keyboard was actally improved, cuz now it's almost impossible to misspress anymore.
I am so satisfied with the keyboard now, so that problem is 100% gone!
Personally, before I got my HD2, I was a bit against it not having a hardware keyboard, but now I'd rather get raped than have a HD2 twice or tripple its thickness just to get a hw-keyboard.
Summary: The keyboard on HD2 is great now.
With time, I got either used to the little distortion the speakers has, or the quality got a little bit better (I think it actually did! I always have the lowest volume though).
So, the speaker might not be what u expect when u pay so much money, but the sens of the screen is good and the keyboard works flawlessly!
Hope this helps ur desicion!
You cannot beat the HD2 for web browsing Opera 9.7 is the best mobile browser ever made and in landscape it's simply huge, you can read pretty much a whole web page width as it was designed.
The default keyboard is very good in my opinion however I use SlideIT which I think cannot be beaten, it's a Swype variant but better.
However you must take battery life into consideration, and I don't care what people say, the HD2 has a poor battery life. I carry a spare as a matter of course and rarely burn through one a day, but just in case it's an essential thing to have.
I wouldn't swap my HD2 for the world with a custom ROM, and a few tweaks nothing can beat it.
what site do you open when you are browsing the web?
if it's full of flash then go to the n900 or android phone
if it's just the regular web pages just go with the hd2.
as the hd2 won't get the flash 10.1 from the adobe
the hd2 will be perfect if it got the flash 10.
huge screen, the pretty htc sense, best web browser (if the web without flash), very fast snapdragon, beautiful design, and many more
Thanks for the replies, everyone.
I am the tweaking, modding sort of person and frankly I do browse a LOT of webpages.
From your feedback @jan-willem3 I have to agree with you, the Leo is better looking and more modder friendly, it is also much more powerful than the N900.
From everybody elses, I see the keyboard has some issues and since I'm coming from an E90 communicator I presume I'd just have to get used to touchscreens. Go figure.
Anyhow, you guys have convinced me, I'm springing for the HD2 since here it is a little bit cheaper than the N900. I will miss the TV-out but I think the screen is big enough for movie watching.
Just a few more questions, does an Apple Wireless Keyboard work properly with it? and does it have any problems handling 16GB microSD cards?
un fair to compare these two devices . leo leads by million miles ( multitouch capastive screen, the on screen keyboare is bigger than the hardware keyboard on n 900 , more power processor , more than twice ram (576 vs 256 ). bigger screen ,and finally (windows os ,means push email ,revolutionary office ,and allot for business needs0
I had an N900 which is good but the battery life is rubbish. I tried two different phones and three batteries incase I had a duff phone. In the end I exchanged the N900 for the HD2. On the N900 the battery would last three hours and using the same amount of web browsing, phone calls and playing with the phone I can get one and a bit days from the HD2.
Some of the features of the N900 are better than the HD2, uploading to facebook, and I could get my location uploaded to facebook and twitter.
I also liked the cover to protect the camera lens on the N900, what I did not like was the lack of apps and the general feel taht the N900 was a work in progress.
I have the used both phones.
The N900 is probably better for multimedia & browsing.
The keyboard is better, it has TV Out (Out of the box, including cable) too so you can use a big screen for films and browsing.
The films seem to run a lot smoother too than on the HD2 despite the HD2's superior spec.
A nice touch of the N900 is the built in stand to stand the phone at an angle while watching films.
The HD2 runs really nice in WIFI router mode though and my laptop runs great and fast online off the HD2, so if you're going to use a laptop with for browsing while out then the HD2 is better suited.
However, the HD2 is much better looking & more customisable.
The N900 is actually very chunky though. But it has the bonus of a 32gb Storage on board which is very nice.
For me the N900 has a much better battery life while browsing & film watching. I guess it's due to the slightly smaller screen & processor.
Id love to say the HD2 as this is what I use daily, but for what you need the N900 is probably better.
Here's a pic of them side by side I took a while ago with some other phones for a direct comparison.
HTC_Junglist said:
I have the used both phones.
The N900 is probably better for multimedia & browsing.
The keyboard is better, it has TV Out (Out of the box, including cable) too so you can use a big screen for films and browsing.
The films seem to run a lot smoother too than on the HD2 despite the HD2's superior spec.
A nice touch of the N900 is the built in stand to stand the phone at an angle while watching films.
The HD2 runs really nice in WIFI router mode though and my laptop runs great and fast online off the HD2, so if you're going to use a laptop with for browsing while out then the HD2 is better suited.
However, the HD2 is much better looking & more customisable.
The N900 is actually very chunky though. But it has the bonus of a 32gb Storage on board which is very nice.
For me the N900 has a much better battery life while browsing & film watching. I guess it's due to the slightly smaller screen & processor.
Id love to say the HD2 as this is what I use daily, but for what you need the N900 is probably better.
Here's a pic of them side by side I took a while ago with some other phones for a direct comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, except that the battery life is better because of the lesser backlighting and the smaller processor. Both screens (HD2 and N900) have the same resolution, as you know.
Tbh, the only reason I'm not buying the N900 is because of the screen, which I'm downgrading on. My current E90 communicator has a screen with slightly lower resolution (i.e. 800x352) than the N900 and the HD2 but it measures 4.0 inches. Losing screen real-estate is not something I'm willing to do.
The N900 has an amazing browser but the HD2 has more screen space to offset that. Both can play multimedia but I'm holding off on the HD2 because of this. No escape since this seems to affect the HTC Desire too.
In the end, I do think the N900 is better for me, but it's size and small screen put me off. What do you guys think I should go for, then, as an alternative?
Yeah I can see why you don't want to go for the N900 if it's smaller in screen size than you have, otherwise I think it would be a good choice for you.
As you can see in that pic there is also a Sony Erricsson Xperia X10
I would not recommend you get this.
Browsing is very painful and it only plays MP4 out the box, no avi!!!!!
It just doesn't run nice IMO but does have a nice screen & camera.
HTC_Junglist said:
Yeah I can see why you don't want to go for the N900 if it's smaller in screen size than you have, otherwise I think it would be a good choice for you.
As you can see in that pic there is also a Sony Erricsson Xperia X10
I would not recommend you get this.
Browsing is very painful and it only plays MP4 out the box, no avi!!!!!
It just doesn't run nice IMO but does have a nice screen & camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmmm. then that's the XPERIA X10 out of the picture.
What else do you recommend? Thanks for helping me out on this.
u said the keyboard and the oversensetive screen would be dealbreaker for u...
there are so many other amazing keyboard for winmo out there. i hate the standard htc keyboard too, i really hate it. the first app i installed was the fingerkeyboard 2.1 ^.^ i just love it.
and yes, some ppl say the screen is oversensetive.. it truly is if u compare it to older winmo devices or another capacitive device BUT this problem is already solved ^.^ there are some cabs on this forum to decrase the screen sensetivity. im using this since 2 months now or so, and its really better
uuhm, i think i just killed ur dealbreakers
and hey, for me, the speakers are okay, well i only use them for utube or when my phone rings, for what else should i? why should i watch movies on my hd2 without earplugs? i mean, we got so amazing sound quality with WOW SRS
D4rkSoRRoW said:
u said the keyboard and the oversensetive screen would be dealbreaker for u...
there are so many other amazing keyboard for winmo out there. i hate the standard htc keyboard too, i really hate it. the first app i installed was the fingerkeyboard 2.1 ^.^ i just love it.
and yes, some ppl say the screen is oversensetive.. it truly is if u compare it to older winmo devices or another capacitive device BUT this problem is already solved ^.^ there are some cabs on this forum to decrase the screen sensetivity. im using this since 2 months now or so, and its really better
uuhm, i think i just killed ur dealbreakers
and hey, for me, the speakers are okay, well i only use them for utube or when my phone rings, for what else should i? why should i watch movies on my hd2 without earplugs? i mean, we got so amazing sound quality with WOW SRS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty convinced about these problems being easy to solve, but I just saw this. Personally, this is a major flaw that will seriously affect my movie-watching.
hackm0d said:
I'm pretty convinced about these problems being easy to solve, but I just saw this. Personally, this is a major flaw that will seriously affect my movie-watching.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aww, i saw this thread, but i always ignored it cause im not watching that many movies with my phone.. for me it doesnt matter, but it suxx
D4rkSoRRoW said:
aww, i saw this thread, but i always ignored it cause im not watching that many movies with my phone.. for me it doesnt matter, but it suxx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but I dooo want to watch movies on my HD2 when it comes, that's what the big screen is for, no?
The thing is, I'm just letting a sync issue change me over to Maemo, a smaller, resistive screen and a whole lot of included bulk. But to me, movie watching on the go is CRUCIAL.
For the guys with this issue, is it really that bad? Even with TCPMP and CorePlayer? What if we lower the bitrate a bit?
HTC_Junglist said:
Yeah I can see why you don't want to go for the N900 if it's smaller in screen size than you have, otherwise I think it would be a good choice for you.
As you can see in that pic there is also a Sony Erricsson Xperia X10
I would not recommend you get this.
Browsing is very painful and it only plays MP4 out the box, no avi!!!!!
It just doesn't run nice IMO but does have a nice screen & camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, does the screen "feel" small? As in do you ever squint at the screen to watch videos or struggle to read text? Or is there not enough room to see things properly? If it doesn't I might just go for it over the HD2, the main reason being the audio sync issue on the HD2. Have you tried playing videos on the HD2 and noticed any discernable lag in the audio and video?
Yeah, mine has terrile lag unless I use TCPMP then it's fine, doesn't work for everyone though.
The N900s screen is fine for me, no squinting, it just looks a bit small in appearance as the phone is quite chunky so it just doesn't look so big compared to the chunky phone it's on.
Kalavere said:
You cannot beat the HD2 for web browsing Opera 9.7 is the best mobile browser ever made and in landscape it's simply huge, you can read pretty much a whole web page width as it was designed.
The default keyboard is very good in my opinion however I use SlideIT which I think cannot be beaten, it's a Swype variant but better.
However you must take battery life into consideration, and I don't care what people say, the HD2 has a poor battery life. I carry a spare as a matter of course and rarely burn through one a day, but just in case it's an essential thing to have.
I wouldn't swap my HD2 for the world with a custom ROM, and a few tweaks nothing can beat it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have agreed about SlideIt until the 2.13 ROM update was released. Now, the top performer is Swype for me, once again. I just bought SlideIt too, darn it!
PLEASE DO NOT START A FLAME WAR!
As you can tell from my sig, I have recently acquired a new HD2, flashed and ready with the Windows Phone 7 OS, in addition to my Samsung Vibrant. I will try my best to provide an accurate comparison of WP7 vs Android from an unbiased standpoint, as I show equal likes and dislikes with both OSes and phones. Keep in mind I have a class 6 sd card in the hd2 so it should be just as fast if not faster than the HD7.
Navigation Efficiency/ Smoothness: I must say at first glance, WP7 may seem like a true winner with its GPU accelerated animations and scrolling, both of which are butter smooth. The flips and backflips of screens and icons is nice, as is the rotation swirl, and adds that bit of polish lacking in Android. However, if you look past the animations, you may realize that the Vibrant (modded), does open apps just a bit faster than WP7. The key to WP7 is the eye candy, those animations decrease the delay you may otherwise see with Android phones lacking fancy animation, turn off the animations on both and the Android device will likely open the app first, whether it be browser, Gmail, calculator, calender, etc.
Apps: Android, no doubt. The WP7 app store is sorely lacking apart from a few high quality games and apps such as Netflix. Sure, streaming movies is fun, but what about everything else? Not to mention, the WP7 marketplace strangely lacks a search feature, or just that I didn't dig deep enough.
Browsing: This is really half and half. Smoothness wise, WP7 is a winner with the GPU acceleration, again glass smooth. Page rendering such as Engadget had similar times, with non flash pages the HD2 won easily, but with flash turned off on both, I must say the Vibrant won. Both were connected to wifi at my house, with the Vibrant being 2-3 seconds ahead without flash. At times I question the use of flash on a device lacking hardware acceleration, but then again those white spots on screens where a occasional youtube video shows up on the HD2 is equally if not more annoying than the choppy Android browser. In the end, if you enjoy smoothness and text reading, and perhaps a bit of speed due to the lack of flash, the GPU accelerated WP7 browser will do you well, but if you prefer functionality and watching videos, go with Android 2.2.
I cannot provide information on camera quality due to having an HD2 hacked WP7.
The music player on WP7 is about the same in functionality as the Touchwiz version.
I will gladly provide more information if you need. Remember to click thanks if I helped.
The Windows Search button is context sensitive.
Maybe you're having trouble finding it on the HD2 (keymappings different, etc. /shrugs/ ), but you bring up marketplace search (or search in any app) by simply hitting the search key.
Flash was a huge deal to me, until I see how badly it nerfed the Vibrant's browser performance. Any setting other than off makes the browser perform terribly. The WP7 IE browser runs laps around it. Cutting it off boosts it a bit, but that's terrible since it has Flash Lite before and we didn't have to deal with such terrible performance... I don't hear any of my iPhone-using friends complaining about the lack of Flash.
App are meh. The only thing that matters are complex apps and games. Most mobile apps (non-game) tend to be encapsulations of mobile websites. An Engadget app doesn't make any sense to install, IMO, since I can just go to Engadget.com and the site is optimized for mobile browsers... Same with CNET, etc.
Some apps just aren't worth bringing to WP7. Office apps aren't worth bringing over. NoteTaking apps aren't worth bringing over. SMS Replacement Apps aren't worth bringing over. Exchange Clients. WP7 has Find My Phone/Lock/Wipe functionality built into it, so stuff like LookOut isn't much use (don't care about the sirens, a phone thief/finder will almost always shut the phone off immediately).
I'd say no browser except maybe Skyfire is worth bringing over at this point, because the chances of them outperforming IE on WP7 is slim to none. As far as apps are concerned, WP7 is probably the most consistent (in Look and Feel) and complete OS released to date when it comes to having all this stuff integrated and from a single vendor. Andorid manufacturers usually license different components from dispirate software vendors to "complete" the experience.
Cameras are comparable. Vibrant takes better pictures during the day. HD7 better at night due to the dual flash. The Vibrant tends to get a better framerate on video, but when blown up on a larger screen it looks a bit grainy and washed out (sort of like a painting). The HD7 doesn't suffer that issue, but the framerates are a big lower. I'd say it's a bit of a wash, with a slight edge to the HD7 because the Vibrant simply cannot compete at all in terms of night time picture shooting... It just can't, even with night mode, etc.
As far as the Navigation and smoothness of the system... The animations have nothing to do with it. It's basically iOS performance with extra eye candy to look better. The only thing that lags a bit is scrolling through lists (Android does this as well, but I think the fact that lots of applications load internet data on the fly has something to do with it in some instances) and resuming from apps (which will see significant performance boosts in the March update, among other things).
The animations aren't hiding any lag. We're seriously comparing a phone that lags switching home screens to a phone that can animate pretty much every transition without as much of a hickup. Let's not go there...
The Music Player is not the same functionality wise. WP7 uses Zune. The Vibrant uses the TouchWiz Music/Video player. Zune has FM Radio, can Stream Music if you have Zune Pass, and interfaces with the Zune software on the computer.
Galaxy S has nothing like XBox Live, which is useful even if you don't have any XBL games on your phone because you can send and recieve messages, etc. There are some good games on XBL/Marketplace, though.
I had an hd7,
Wp7 is smoother and more eye candy and better core functions.
Android has apps and open source support.
Sent from my Galaxy S using Tapatalk
I appreciate an actual HD7 owner coming in to improve my points.
And as to the transition animations, it is very likely that those are completely controlled by the gpu while the cpu is controlling the app openings and lifecycles. I seriously doubt that WP7 opens apps instantaneously, instead separating the gpu and cpu tasks for smooth animation while the cpu opens the app.
The Touchwiz music player is similar to that of the IPhone, which is comparable to Zune. I meant comparable, but Zune is milestone above that of the stock android music interface.
Camera on the HD2 really is a meh. Flash pics get overblown due to the dual flash and the pics are a bit grainy even with the replacement ShCameraApp. Most probably software issues, but the HD7 uses the same or similar hardware camera.
The IE browser really is just smoother than the android browser. You won't mind the lack of flash until you come across an embedded youtube video on a page with a black spot.
After the initial surprise by the smoothness of WP7, the lists and tiles do get a little boring.
The thing that bothers me the most is the need for zune to do everything from load pics and videos, to albums and anything onto the phone. Not that zune is bad, but it just hinders an otherwise easy drag and drop.
The HD2 is a keeper for me due to the solid metal and rubber build and its ability to run 4 OSes, 3 natively or almost natively (android, winmo, wp7, and hopefully meego). Plus I got it free from the Executive Response Team, no contract extension either (don't ask, long story).
And N8ter, I was not directly comparing WP7 to the Vibrant since I came from a Nexus One, but gave it up due to several power button failures and screen burn ins.
Yes the hd2 is the dev device of the century, the hd7 is just a slick version of it with a kickstand.
I loved the wp7 everything about it I just couldn't deal with lack of good app support.
It just works, well. No roms or anything needed.
That being said android has more possibilities and capabilities and of course dev support
Sent from my Galaxy S using Tapatalk
Android is the new windows mobile in my eyes. It has better marketing but the same problems with wm are still present. Lack of manufactures support, drivers for custom roms, and mostly manufactors adding there crapware on top of a great os.
I personally needed a break from Android and specifically the vibrant. I was constantly trying to fix problems. I think Android needs to set some rules/guidelines for OEMs that have the resources to put out great product. Open source is great for the community but letting companies put out crap with googles Android written crossed it.
I too tried wp7 on my hd2 and was surprised at the user interface. Almost lag free device, and no need to change SMS, browser, music player etc. Everything works great out of the box besides YouTube. I've only installed slacker, flashlight, wp7 tapatalk, news/ RSS reader, Google voice and that's about it.
I will be back to Android later in the year but for now I just need something that works. With me bring a heavy user I was able to get thru a full day on a single charge.
I will miss my screen a little, my torrent app, and my remote desktop app. Out of all the apps in Android maybe 20 apps were useful to me besides pulling out the ruler vs my friends.
Zune computer software is great. Syncs extremely fast and haven't had a problem yet. No more fighting with my external sd.
Things that are important to me:
Browser
Music
Google voice
Text and email
Little facebook/twitter.
Battery life.
A couple snap shots occasionally
Wp7 does these with no problem.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
I don't think any Mobile OS or device should be dependent on third-party dev support to make the phone function as advertised. That is part of the issue with Android (not as a whole, but specific [even most] manufacturers). The initial Honeycomb tablets may be different, though, since the manufacturers aren't initially skinning the OS.
The Motorola ATRIX, with all its great hardware goodness, lagged it's way to a 9/10 (cause it has lots of accessories?!) on Engadget. Maybe when their brain catches up (apparently lagging as well) they will get around to giving it a believable rating...
These reviews have been unchanging for the past year, year and a half. No matter how much hardware you throw at Android: "phone lags a lot", "you should be able to get a day out of it with moderate usage (some phones piss the users off if they have to charge more than ever other day - smartphones mind you)" "bad UI yada yada" "skin this and that" "still running older version but update coming *soon*".
XPLANE9 said:
I appreciate an actual HD7 owner coming in to improve my points.
And as to the transition animations, it is very likely that those are completely controlled by the gpu while the cpu is controlling the app openings and lifecycles. I seriously doubt that WP7 opens apps instantaneously, instead separating the gpu and cpu tasks for smooth animation while the cpu opens the app.
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Hardware accelleration means graphics processing is offloaded to the GPU. Apps open as fast as they do on any other mobile OS, and faster than others. Of course if you're running a mobile game with (relatively) large files to load when it starts up this will not happen instantly. The use of the term instantaneous wasn't really meant to be taken uber literally...
Android runs less efficiently on better hardware because the system taxes the CPU more, since the GPU is going unused as far as the general UI/widgets are concerned. This is why the devices are usually overspecced and/or have functionality ripped out of them.
One of the biggest failures of Samsung was releasing this phone with such great GPU hardware in it, but not putting hardware accelleration into their firmware. Perhaps if they had done that the system would have run a bit smoothly. Nothing could save it from RFS, however.
The Touchwiz music player is similar to that of the IPhone, which is comparable to Zune. I meant comparable, but Zune is milestone above that of the stock android music interface.
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I'm talking beyond the user interface. I'm accounting for functionality as well The TouchWiz music player is not comparable to iPod Touch in the iPhone. DoubleTwist makes an app that looks like iTunes, but iTunes obviously blows it away when it comes to features and functionality, for example.
Camera on the HD2 really is a meh. Flash pics get overblown due to the dual flash and the pics are a bit grainy even with the replacement ShCameraApp. Most probably software issues, but the HD7 uses the same or similar hardware camera.
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The HD2's camera is actually pretty bad. I'm sure the cameras are similar, they are both 5MP cameras with 720p. But, I'm also sure they aren't the same, because the picture qualities are IMO a bit too different for that to be the case (even across multiple OSes on the HD2). That being said, I've never done a teardown, so I don't know for sure.
If anyone wants a great camera on a phone, it would behoove them to get an N8. That phone can compete with some DSLRs when it comes to picture quality.
The IE browser really is just smoother than the android browser. You won't mind the lack of flash until you come across an embedded youtube video on a page with a black spot.
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I went from Vibrant to HD7 and don't mind the lack of flash. Flash, IMO, was not ready for mobile devices when it was released for Android. It's too bloated and resource intensive. It has this same issue on the desktop, but fortunately those machines are powerful enough to just shrug it off in most cases. Flash 10.2 is supposed to bring hardware accelleration, but I'm not sure how much that will help Galaxy S devices...
It causes a lot of Pinch-Zoom and Pan lag, and scrolling on a page with a few flash artifacts on it can be a PITA on some websites.
I do know some sites that crash the Android browser 100% of the time, though...
In the case of moving from Android to WP7, the lack of Flash was actually a bonus for me. If the Vibrant had shipped without Flash (needed it from the market) and Flash Lite was also available in the market, I'd probably have just installed Flash Lite 5 minutes after installing the FroYo update and trying Flash. The irony, though, is that Flash Lite worked for most of the crap that I needed Flash for... I regret even asking for [full] Flash.
After the initial surprise by the smoothness of WP7, the lists and tiles do get a little boring.
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9 of the tiles on my WP7 home screen are Live. I'll take Live Tiles and normal tiles over walls of icon and widgets with no unified Look and Feel cluttered across 3-7 Home screens. Don't really care about the list. IIRC Android has an option to make the App "Page" a list as well...
The thing that bothers me the most is the need for zune to do everything from load pics and videos, to albums and anything onto the phone. Not that zune is bad, but it just hinders an otherwise easy drag and drop.
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A phone is not a USB thumb drive.
Yes, however managing media on a WP7 or iOS device is much better than on Android, where this sort of stuff is non-existent in the stock builds and requires you to duplicate tons of functionality on the device, set defaults, etc.
There is DoubleTwist, whose Desktop App runs like a 1200lb Gorilla from my experiences (at least on Windows - I thought it was my computer, but I have 5 computers; fortunately), requires a redundant media player to be installed, and sells WiFi media synching (free in Zune).
WinAmp has media synching, but again requires a redundant media player.
WiFi Synching, Automatic Transcoding to the best possible format, etc. This is all done transparently. Once Microsoft Adds Skydrive support and that other stuff in Mango, I don't forsee many complaints about WP7.
But even now, it's a very polished experience. I even prefer the notifications on WP7 to Android, and I don't have to worry about numbers getting burnt into the top of my screen anymore.
The HD2 is a keeper for me due to the solid metal and rubber build and its ability to run 4 OSes, 3 natively or almost natively (android, winmo, wp7, and hopefully meego). Plus I got it free from the Executive Response Team, no contract extension either (don't ask, long story).
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Yes, it's a great device that ran well even on WM. Marred by bad QA on the part of HTC. I never saw a reason to run another or a non-stock OS on my HD2s, personally.
And N8ter, I was not directly comparing WP7 to the Vibrant since I came from a Nexus One, but gave it up due to several power button failures and screen burn ins.
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Meh, this is the Vibrant forum
All that said, I have all three phones and can choose to use whichever one I please whenever I want to. The Vibrant and the HD7 both have active SIM Cards in them with Data plans, so I can care less what anyone else choose, likes, dislikes, or doesn't choose. I don't have to choose anything, I just have to "prefer at that specific moment." XD
Kinda funny comparing a HD7 to a vibrant. Consider the Vibrant is now 9 months on the market and older tech than the HD7 2 months on the market.
So, The only things I have seen that i would like on the Android platform that the HD7 has over Vibrant
1. A better voice command
2. Flash on the camera
3. More user friendly custom contact menu (add custom ringtones and pics)
4. The Browser revised to integrate flash better.
5. Improve on the sound by adding a onboard equalizer.
That would make the phone alot more ZAPPY..... The S2 maybe ?
The HD7 is using HD2/Nexus One-level hardware. So the hardware is really like 6 months older than what's in the Vibrant. I have no clue how you can say the Vibrant has older tech than the HD7...
The S2 will be snappier than the Vibrant, but most likely because in typical Android OEM fashion, they will just throw hardware at it.
If the ATRIX 4G is any indicator, I don't expect this hardware to make too much of an impact. I think as time goes on Android's performance issues will start to work against it.
It's getting harder and harder to find a performant device and people make fun of Android because it is universally known as a laggy smartphone OS (check out BB or iOS forums, among others, and see).