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Foreword: I mean this in the most constructive way possible. While I'm not a <android> developer, it occurs to me that with the wealth of Android ROM-devs and an excellent base of testers (like myself, an unexcellent but present tester), there has to be a better way.
I love XDA-Dev as a resource, and it's been a godsend since I got my MT3G. I've had the opportunity to use some very well done builds which have been time-invested by their developers. I've learned a lot about my device, and am beginning to understand Android as a platform. Here's the beef:
Some ROM-posts are 1000+ pages long. While I could read all 1000+ pages if warranted, it's simply inefficient. What information am I after? I want to know:
Does it work on my phone?
What's the latest version?
Where's it at?
Are there any specific bugs on my phone with this build?
Who else is using this build, and what hardware are they using?
What bugs are being worked on?
What workarounds are applicable to this build?
What bugs are open and need community feedback?
etc...
Is there some sort of bug-tracking setup that could be used to facilitate this? I don't mean or intend to steer *anything* away from XDA-Developers, per se, but this current forum method doesn't seem very conducive to making forward progress.
<shrug> I know, I know, I'm a noob around here and should just work with the herd. I've seen other comments touching on some of these issues, so I thought I'd throw it out there. I apologize if it's been brought up before and shot down.
Hey, what about this? I was looking for a semi-authoritative list of Android ROMs that matched what I outlined above and came across it.
If I had the resources I'd volunteer time/materials to help the cause in that light, but being the schmuck I am (ya' know, working full time and school part time), I can't offer anything substantive. So while this might sound like a gripe, maybe it will compel someone else to make some magic happen. That, or have my account disabled
Any thoughts?
I understand where you are coming from.. but I don't find it that hard to find the rom and information I am after.. all it takes is a little time..
Why not help out by adding to the wiki?
I dont see how this has to do with development, you are just as guilty as the people you speak of.
xyzulu said:
I understand where you are coming from.. but I don't find it that hard to find the rom and information I am after.. all it takes is a little time..
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I hear ya, it's just not a very concise method and I'm sure you've seen "what's the best build" & "will this ROM work on my phone" and "hey are there any issues with this build", etc...
xyzulu said:
Why not help out by adding to the wiki?
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I've thought about it, and went as far as the edit screen a few times. Then it's like "aww crap, here goes a few hours...". Back to homework
Jrbourque said:
I dont see how this has to do with development, you are just as guilty as the people you speak of.
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I think it has everything to do with development, advancement of the builds flying around here, and support of the folks that put their time into it.
Maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying, but I surely wasn't trying to assign guilt to anyone. Things are the way they are because they got that way - doesn't make it right, 'doesn't make it wrong. I just thought maybe there's a better way to support the community.
It's all good.
Jrbourque said:
I dont see how this has to do with development, you are just as guilty as the people you speak of.
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It's this kind of attitude that is putting a lot of people off. The OP has made some very good and valid points and deserves at least a response to the points he has made, not just a one sentence put down.
I am thinking there needs to be a standardized terminology for the ROMs. There are many that are "Vanilla" or "Senseless", "DeSensitized",etc, that really aren't. By labeling them as Vanilla or Senseless when only parts of the Sense are removed is kind of misleading, so for this I would submit my opinion...
Senseless: a ROM that has had Sense or some of the Sense components removed making it a hybrid
Vanilla: a ROM that never had Sense and thus has no Sense components.
Of course these are just my opinions, but I hope the developers can come to an agreement on a way of standardizing the verbiage.
(this post was purposely made in the Developers section as it relates solely to those doing the developing)
+1 That makes perfect sense...lol
I agree, many other forums have guidelines that have acronyms for different information and are in the thread title which helps with quick information by just reading the title.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
I can get behind that. I've always been fond of "Tainted Vanilla", but Senseless works just as well.
in order of senseness
sense > desensitized > senseless > vanilla
which means... all, some sense removed, as much sense as possilble removed, never was any sense to begin with
Makes Sense to me. (Sorry, couldn't resist)
+1
Will aid in the confusion.
If people don't understand terminology, then they shouldn't be installing roms until they read up more. If you don't understand what you are doing, then why do it?
TNS201 said:
If people don't understand terminology, then they shouldn't be installing roms until they read up more. If you don't understand what you are doing, then why do it?
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It's not necessarily a case of spelling it out for people, but more of a standard for naming your ROMs. It's easy to go in and read that SkyRaider Vanilla only has sense removed, but that's frankly not the same thing as an AOSP-based ROM.
TNS201 said:
If people don't understand terminology, then they shouldn't be installing roms until they read up more. If you don't understand what you are doing, then why do it?
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You just made my sig with that. Across all of my hobbies that I've ever had, this quote applies.
OnTopic - I agree with the OP and USAsokr, not that my opinion matters much anyway at this point.
mike.d said:
You just made my sig with that. Across all of my hobbies that I've ever had, this quote applies.
OnTopic - I agree with the OP and USAsokr, not that my opinion matters much anyway at this point.
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Yea usually when people try to do something that they don't know how to do and/or understand they end up messing something up, also known as FAIL. It's funny that people don't understand this stuff, don't even understand why they root, and rush into things without reading things like sticky threads and other such things to understand the basics of what is being done and why its being done. Some people have a hard enough time following a guide and its not to complicated and most stuff like ADB stuff can just be copied and pasted.
I think most people think root will allow them to pirate apps and this is why they look to get root. They don't realize that root is basically giving you complete control of your phone, backup and restore their phone, ability to theme and ability to install custom roms and apps that require root level access. There are just people seeking root for all the wrong reasons and don't realize they will never use it to its full extent.
TNS, I think you are missing the point of my request- this isnt about "knowing what you are doing", it's about truth in advertising!
Look at how many "Vanilla" ROM's there are....and how many are what they say they are. Vanilla isnt vanilla when its got chocolate swirled in there
gospeed.racer said:
TNS, I think you are missing the point of my request- this isnt about "knowing what you are doing", it's about truth in advertising!
Look at how many "Vanilla" ROM's there are....and how many are what they say they are. Vanilla isnt vanilla when its got chocolate swirled in there
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TNS is just a misanthrope, check out the post history. He yearns for the day when these sorts of activities were limited to a smaller audience.
Poor guy.
Yeah, I spent a week and half reading before I understood how to and had a reason for rooting, etc. One of the reasons it took so long is that there's so much misinformation and random crap out there. I'm learning as fast as I can and have high hopes for my future. I'm going back to school and going for a degree in programming specializing in JAVA. It's pretty much a 180 from what I do now. Wish me luck!
mike.d said:
Yeah, I spent a week and half reading before I understood how to and had a reason for rooting, etc. One of the reasons it took so long is that there's so much misinformation out there. I'm learning as fast as I can and have high hopes for my future. I'm going back to school and going for a degree in programming specializing in JAVA. It's pretty much a 180 from what I do now. Wish me luck!
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Good luck! I used to do some programming wayyyyy back in the days when BASIC was the language and lately I've been trying to teach myself java and android programming. Tough stuff, but fun!
Also, how about a ROM only forum with a sticky for the terminology.
TNS201 said:
If people don't understand terminology, then they shouldn't be installing roms until they read up more. If you don't understand what you are doing, then why do it?
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Well, seeing as to how this is one of the primary resources for people getting into this whole ROM flashing business, and the fact that there is clearly NO consistency or continuity in certain terminologies, which only contributes to confusion and impedes the learning process of said people, then a suggestion like the OP's is incredibly valid, and your condescending superciliousness is ridiculously counterproductive. The point of the OP is clear--to facilitate understanding, clarify things for beginners, and educate those who "don't understand terminology", there must be standards of clarity and consistency for terminology.
And to answer your question: to learn it--to gain that understanding. Some things, you learn by doing. Welcome to life.
Remember, you were a "noob" once too.
But hey, at least you made it into someone signature.
i have a rooted fascinate, no im not posting where my 2.2 update is, it'll get here when it gets here, more that this is a call out to any devs and end users like myself that are tired of the same old rom styles and themes. Some roms are straight beautiful, like Thatdudebutch's super dark v1, and sos3 blackhole, whereas some just seem too stock-ish to me.
Where is the imagination? The creativity? I know devs are always working they're ass's off to bring us the next best port or rom based off insert other rom name here... but im ready for the dev that says hey i created this from scratch...
Maybe its just me, maybe im being a whiney ass lol, but i think its time devs started using what they think is cool, not what everyone else thinks is cool. If the enduser doesnt like the rom/theme, then boo ****in hoo and they can use something else.
Like i think SONOFSKYWALKER3's idea of build your own rom was a huge breakthrough in end user controlled customization, but its still using whats already available to us in either stock, or from the select few top 3 roms.
Please guys, (devs too) Show us what you can really do, make that rom that takes our breath away. We will love you for it...i will love you for it (metaphorically speaking of course lol)
Show us what you can do too
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Progress is progress. The devs are porting gb to the Fascinate, that's a start in real customization. Just wait, the devs are already working hard. If your pushing them so hard, why don't you help? Seriously, its this disappointment in devs that ruins a devs commitment.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
Why must everything be taken so negatively? I read this first post and saw it as inspiration. I can see that the devs who make roms make it for the general public not for themselves, and I think thats why they make them so similar to each other, as thats what most people like. I feel that a dev isn't really ready to go out of his/her way to bust they're ass and make a rom that only they and a handful of others are going to use.
All in all, I think the OPer made a good point in "challenging" the devs to 'unleash' their creativity into the atmosphere and make somthing of their own that they are truely balls to the wall about.
Just my 2 cents.
TheSonicEmerald said:
Progress is progress. The devs are porting gb to the Fascinate, that's a start in real customization. Just wait, the devs are already working hard. If your pushing them so hard, why don't you help? Seriously, its this disappointment in devs that ruins a devs commitment.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
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I agree completely...remember the devs don't have to do what they do for us...if it was as simple as 1,2,3 then everyone would create their own roms for themselves...
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
The problem is, there's more worth in porting gingerbread and then porting other roms like cyangenmod which are easier to customize, than customizing samsung's firmware updates.
Rockin' DJ05, Minimal Icognito, Clocked at 1.3Ghz
jdkzombie said:
If the enduser doesnt like the rom/theme, then boo ****in hoo and they can use something else.
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Yeah.. so what was the point of your post again?
Not at all trying to be negative, but what exactly are you looking for?
Sent from my SCH-I500
you are all missing the point of my post
its not to bash devs, its not to berate anyone, nor was it to solicit "why dont you do it yourself" comments. But since thats how everyone is going to take it, i guess i need to clarify. What i meant by devs making what they think is cool is for them to use their imagination and make their roms and themes unique. Too many roms out there have been sourced from others...not that this is a bad thing as there are beautiful works of art available to all who wants to flash them..
These devs bust their ass to make these things for us and i respect that with all my being, and i appreciate all that they do. My hats off to all of them. But, again, wheres the creativity? Why must they be forced to use what is already in the eclair, froyo, and Gingerbread roms as their inspiration? These guys can take 0's and 1's and turn them into something beautiful that cant be taken seriously in just pictures. In the last 3 days i have flashed more things to my phone than i can hardly count, yes i have screwed my phone up and recovered, but im not here explaining without experiencing the world of flashing.
Why dont i help out....i'd love to yet im not programmer. I have zero idea how coding and programming and bitmapping works. Thats why we have developers. Im not here to bash anyone. I go to school currently to be a master mechanic, therefore computer programming is worlds different from installing and tuning a greddy turbo, or replacing a radiator, or even doing a tune up on (insert friends name here)'s car.
Im calling out to devs to stop being restrained by the limitations we as endusers have put on them, to indirectly force their hand in creating something they may not like but we will because otherwise people out there will gripe and complain. Devs, make what YOU want. There are limitless capabilities to be had in android because its so open. As developers you are the ones who provide for us when the manufacturers fail to hold up their word/rumor/promise/ etc, i dont want you to think that you have to make these for us, i want you to want to make these for us. Without you developers we would all be stuck to a basic android existence harkening to that of apple and its lockdown on whats what.
I wanna see creations from your darkest fantasies about android. I want to see the rom that gets you all hot and bothered. I want to see the theme that you got the inspiration for while you were driving around town or watching a movie. Dammit guys, make what you want to see android be, enough being the lambs, its time to be the lion. When phone manufacturers fail, where do we turn? To you devs. You. I cant even begin to describe how much respect i have for what you do for us.
I'll finish this off with something for the people who will no doubt bash me and flame because i need to do it myself, or im being to hard on them, or i'm just being a whiny little *****. boo hoo. get over it. Its my post, regarding my OPINION. I didnt force any of you to view it. to read it. to comment on it. the fact that you did shows that each one of you feels the same way i do. We all love android. We all love what the devs do. Why should we hold them back from what their imaginations can design? What gives us the right to do that....
Respect devs...always and forever from me....respect.
jdkzombie said:
Why dont i help out....i'd love to yet im not programmer. I have zero idea how coding and programming and bitmapping works. Thats why we have developers.
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Well, you don't have to be a programmer to be "creative". In the design process all sorts of people are involved, and you could think up a concept. You could design a concept so great that a programmer would like at it and think it's great and decide to bring it to life. But asking people to be creative on your behalf, and using "i'm not a programmer" as an excuse to be a spectator is simply selfish I gotta say. Not trying to bash you too much, but simply saying there's many ways to be useful.
Jdkzombie is right...when linus developed the linux kernel he basically said....here it is, go forth and multiply...,now we have tons of different flavors and styles of linux. Android is awesome in its own right but we are only customizing something already there. (Devs....i definately mean no disrespect... ). The only thing i've seen so far that has bent that rule is MIUI. but that is too close to an iphone for me. I think what jdk is trying to say is...,where are the truely custom roms with wild and crazy user interfaces. I don't think jdk is asking the devs to stop what they are doing by no means...but maybe jdks asking why can't we all b more creative and come together as a community and come up with one ourselves with ideas from all of us...,and then find devs to take the plunge and make it happen. It all starts with an IDEA. So why not...,instead of bashing in this forum... ,let's start posting things we might want to be different in android and see what happens.
Think about it...,ubuntu linux- "your name here" android?
Thanks to all, devs, themers, and the users who have donated and contributed feedback over the years to make android what it is.
I may not post here much, but when i see something worth posting about i have to add MY opinion....and that's all it is.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
i think the op has a nice idea, but this probably isnt the phone to realize it on.
we have a handful of very talented devs, but really there time is mostly tied up in attempting to right the wrongs that samsung has done to us, by working on aosp/froyo/gb whatever.
the n1/ns community (or i9000) might be the guys you d want to bring your ideas to, as they have a global base of devs and their communities dwarf ours to the point of ridiculousness
See tho, one of the first lessons they teach you in most programming courses nowadays is "why reinvent the wheel?" It's there, it does it's job, why not build on top of that framework that already exists. This is the foundational principle of software engineering.
Think about it like this: you are in the woods and need to build a fire. You have plenty of dry wood, small kindling materials, and matches. Why would you go to the trouble of locating a striker stone and a piece of Flint to use to try and start the fire when you already have matches. You wouldn't unless you had no alternative or just liked to take the inefficient route for the sake of itself.
Another way to think of it is like this:
If I needed to drive from here in Mississippi to Nevada, I wouldn't build a car to drive if I already had one.
Devs are trying g to give us the most bang for our buck and that means using the tools and frameworks already in place.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
CrushD said:
Well, you don't have to be a programmer to be "creative". In the design process all sorts of people are involved, and you could think up a concept. You could design a concept so great that a programmer would like at it and think it's great and decide to bring it to life. But asking people to be creative on your behalf, and using "i'm not a programmer" as an excuse to be a spectator is simply selfish I gotta say. Not trying to bash you too much, but simply saying there's many ways to be useful.
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Why must you assume i havent already given my thoughts and ideas to several devs and "themers" on IRC. I have frequented that site for a good amount of time the past handful of days, both getting assistance with "de-bricking" my phone when i flash a no no to my device, and helping out who i can with their own problems.
It isnt just just me that should be "expected" to come up with new ideas here. I expect everyone to have something to contribute if you are going to post your comments (i use the word "your" in reference to everyone, not just anyone in particular)
You want a bit of my idea? I wanted to see a rom where the screens scroll vertically. Not horizontally like they "all" do. Where when you swipe the screen from left to right it open "your" favorite app. Swipe the screen from right to left and it opens the app try. I have also mentioned that a quick 3 tap on the home screen would zoom out showing a carousel of sorts that you can scroll through to select 1 of 9 home screens that can be filled to burst with your favorite widgets and apps. I dont have a preset color idea. Instead that we be afforded a color "wheel" to choose ourselves what collor basic things are. Be afforded to opportunity to make multiple themes like with ADW, that can installed "into" the rom. I assume everyone has seen the DROID commercials where the two robots select a few apps in the giant app "planet." That would be a sweet app tray wouldnt it? Would it be impossible? I dont know, since i have no idea how programming works. But im sure it would be quite the undertaking.
I would hope that this could be a place for anyone to post their ideas as well, not just mine. I also have this distinct feeling that as of my posts i will be held to a "imaginary" standard that it will be my obligation to post ideas and inspirations. But then therin lies my issue with roms today in general. These roms arent being made for me. If a developer makes anything like my idea, i want it to be something they want to see in android, not just because someone else said hey you develop roms, why dont you make this so i can have it.
This isnt/wasnt/never will be a thread to bash anyone including devs, themers, end users (other posters, but thats my point.) I wont bother to say im not going to be the only one. I dont have to post that. The sheer fact that you (the general population that bothers to read this thread) shows that wish there was more creativity, more originality,....hell....more of the "DEV" in his/her creation than anything else. It would make a developers rom/theme so much more their creation. So when someone says hey i have (for example) ThatDudeButch's new theme, its unique to HIM....the developer... and someone else that has a theme by Adiliyo (also for example) its going to be unique to HIM. Im really hoping all of you have the mental capacity (i used that term for lack of a better one, no offense intended for anyone) and the maturity level to understand that this is a challenge to all who design, develop, or theme, or even just dream to no longer be limited by the general public. Design whatever makes you get a stiffy if thats what it takes. What with the new 2.3 android os out, why should we hold the devs to make different copies of whats out. Why cant we encourage them to make the unthinkable....the un imagined...the roms that arent bound to a single line of influence.
If you (everyone and anyone) are going to post here simply to flame me for speaking my mind about what i would love to see roms and themes become, then perhaps you should consider keeping your comments to yourselves. BUT, this being a public forum, and i am no moderator, i cannot make anyone not post here, nor what they post about, so with that i will only ask that you not just post for the sake of singling out a line of any of my posts to make a snide comment on how its up to me/i need to design it/being too hard on devs ruining their commitment/etc etc. If we werent hard on engineers/developers/programmers in world-wide view considering the design of everything we use today, we wouldnt be in possession of the technological breakthroughs that we have now. We would all still have bag phones. Model A fords, if even that, we would still be riding horses....might i even be bold enough to state we wouldnt even be out of the stone age if it hadnt been for someone somewhere pushing those who build to do bigger and better things.
Please, use common sense people. Im simply issuing a challenge to devs/themers to not be constrained by our ideals. Again, to make what THEY want to make. Remember, they dont have to do this for us, so why cant they build what they want. And thats why i respect what they do.
agsded said:
"why reinvent the wheel?"
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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Im not asking for a new wheel, only a more efficient one. Thats such an over-cliched term anyways and has no merit (in my view) If we never reinvented anything, we'd not be in the possession of these beauties of creation we have today. I bet someone told Henry Ford why reinvent the wheel when he said lets have a car that can be available to the common man. Do you think Ford would be the automotive supergiant they are now if he had followed that advice? Do you think we would have Windows OS, Mac, or any of the other available computing OS's that we have now would be available now if the designers had followed your sage advice?
Please realize, im not bashing you, any of you, im not going to stoop that low. We are all adults here, and even some teenagers, whom i hope utilize that powerful muscle between their ears before they use their fingers, so why must we criticize? Why cant we , as so eloquently put in an earlier post, come together as a community and share ideas.
Just saying.
Yeah, but see all those things you mentioned arent revolutionary leaps of accomplishment, but simply evolution of existing products... refinements..
Henry Ford simply took the concepts of mass production, the assembly line, and interchangeable parts, and applied them to the automotive field. He didn't invent something new, he "engineered" something better from what was already there. He made cars more affordable, available, and easier to repair.
Technology is no different... mechanical switches to electric switches to vacuum tubes to transistors to integrated circuits, they are just extensions of what's there.
We don't still use carburetors because fuel injection is more efficient, largely because it can meter the fuel more precisely, especially at idle. But..the first fuel injection setups were just electronic carburetors, with the old central port fuel injection systems... even the newer ones still do the same thing, just more precisely...
I'd love a smartphone that could read my thoughts and had a neural interface with zero lag. Is it coming.... who knows....is it a reinvention... no, just another step in between a previous one and the next.
Something to ponder.... at the core of all operating systems is basic math.
Add one value to another and put the result here. Stick the right combo of values in the right set of registers and a pixel lights up on the screen. That's the way machine language works...so all software is an evolution of ones and zeros...
A switch is on, 1 a switch is off, 0... so basically computers are just a big ginormous pile of light switches, lol..
Anyways.... I agree, I'd live to see some real neat stuff for android, but at some point, you'd have to throw out android to make it radically different, and then it would just be yet ANOTHER attempt at a mobile os to further fragment things....instead of moving forward, we'd be moving sideways....not as bad as moving backwards, but not progress either....
That's
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Just curious, but... How do you know devs aren't creating what they want? Why would they waste time building something that they didn't want to do?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
agsded said:
....instead of moving forward, we'd be moving sideways....not as bad as moving backwards, but not progress either....
That's
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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I totally agree with you, but yet i also disagree. Which isnt a bad thing, at least we are agreeing to disagree i suppose lol But the point still stands. Why....why must we make do with what we have? Why not bring forth innovation? Is that not how progress is made? Im not looking for an overnight change in the way roms are designed. I only asking that the devs make it a challenge for themselves. Make something they havent done before. Im just winging this without black and white information, but how do we know that manufacturers dont look at these roms for their inspiration?
I'm only asking for that one ambitious dev who needs a challenge to strive for that next peg. The next rung on the ladder of progress. Yes Henry Ford didnt invent the automobile, but with his bringing the assembly line to his own needs he created something huge. Thats what im hoping devs will do for android. When we tire of out normal phone interfaces, to whom do we turn? Yes. thats right, these hard working devs. A vast majority of them create wonders with whats available to them. Others simply tweak and twist certain aspects to their own taste.
A phone that reads out thoughts with a neural interface with zero lag would indeed be a nice addition, but im certain 10 years down the road such a thing may come to be, but thats 10 years from now, if not more. Don't sell yourself short however, all ideas are welcome to me and to this thread. Its odd though, that with all the posts here i seem to be the only one who has put idea to page.
And to mr kevin gossett, How do we know they ARE. We dont. Its as simple as that. All that we can do is hope that there is a dev or 2 or even 3 out there that are willing to bring forth the new age of roms. We turn to these men and women because we are bored with our phones stock rom/theme, so why must the devs and us as end users together suffer the same style in the aftermarket themes and roms? Again not bashing devs here, just stating my opinion, that they need to make something that they love. there WILL be end users out there that will use their roms/themes. I still think some of you are missing my point with all of this, and instead strive to create some echelon of conflict purely for conflicts sake.
View my thread and posts as possible inspiration for the future. Not a bashing, or flaming of those who design for us. The DEVS create the roms, but the devs didnt design what they wanted to see, instead what we wanted to see. And i would love to see that reversed. The DEVS create what THEY want to see, and we use whatever we find to our tastes.
my head hurts
I think I understand what the OP is saying... But at the same time I kind of understand the other side of the fence. Coding is hard, and you must be very precise, and most of these guys are doing it for free. But I know what jdk is meaning....
I think he feels that the devs are limited in what they can create because they are branching off of other works and what people like. I think he wants to see what crazy ass stuff devs can come up with. he wants their creativities to explode all over his face. He wants to see what people can imagine and create. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as he understands the devs, that they have lives, they do this for free, and its hard work, which I think he does understand. I think he's just trying to inspire some folk.
With the newly deodexed honeycomb I have gotten the itch to start looking into how to create/develop my own rom.
What is the best way to start learning, is there a good starting point, I have been doing some reading but it just seems so overwhelming.
I do have basic Linux knowledge and can whip up a linux VM in no time to get crackin. I have been modding my EVO for the last year so i know how to be a "user" and have tinkered with the xoom but have only scratched the surface.
So my question is just this, Where to start??
any input would be helpful.
+1!
need a little walkthrough too :S!!
and someone can say what files NEVER EDIT to not brick the xoom!!
i too would be highly interested in learning what steps to take.
bossjeeves said:
With the newly deodexed honeycomb I have gotten the itch to start looking into how to create/develop my own rom.
What is the best way to start learning, is there a good starting point, I have been doing some reading but it just seems so overwhelming.
I do have basic Linux knowledge and can whip up a linux VM in no time to get crackin. I have been modding my EVO for the last year so i know how to be a "user" and have tinkered with the xoom but have only scratched the surface.
So my question is just this, Where to start??
any input would be helpful.
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Get that VM set up, and get your environment set up so you can build AOSP.
Look through the source so you know what parts of Android are found where in the tree.
Learn a little about the platform, what does what...
Basically, just get your hands dirty.
ydaraishy said:
Get that VM set up, and get your environment set up so you can build AOSP.
Look through the source so you know what parts of Android are found where in the tree.
Learn a little about the platform, what does what...
Basically, just get your hands dirty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so this is kind of what I expected for an answer but I would like a little more if you dont mind.
Like maybe a couple of links pointing in the right direction, like what does the environment need for tools etc.
ydaraishy said:
Get that VM set up, and get your environment set up so you can build AOSP.
Look through the source so you know what parts of Android are found where in the tree.
Learn a little about the platform, what does what...
Basically, just get your hands dirty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's like saying jump in a lions den and see what ticks him off. Can we get more details please? I want to get into theming and want to know the ideal OS to do it on. I was hoping on doing it in Linux but want advice from themers.
IV been playing hippie for a couple of weeks so I don't know if I missed something but, unless the full AOSP source has been released, a deodex rom will help with nothing but theming.
You can't do much to customise a ready built rom, and you would be wasting your time to try anything but the simplest of mods.
That being said, if you're happy to play with smali you might achieve a little more.
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alias_neo said:
IV been playing hippie for a couple of weeks so I don't know if I missed something but, unless the full AOSP source has been released, a deodex rom will help with nothing but theming.
You can't do much to customise a ready built rom, and you would be wasting your time to try anything but the simplest of mods.
That being said, if you're happy to play with smali you might achieve a little more.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
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this is exactly what I am talking about here, This is kind of why I brought it up in the xoom forum, since we dont have source and we do have a deodexed rom wouldnt playing with that be a great place to start? if so like what would be the best place to start, you say play with smali, now I know I can google and get tons of answers but I am asking to explain a little more because I trust the feedback from here and I think others might benefit also
bossjeeves said:
this is exactly what I am talking about here, This is kind of why I brought it up in the xoom forum, since we dont have source and we do have a deodexed rom wouldnt playing with that be a great place to start? if so like what would be the best place to start, you say play with smali, now I know I can google and get tons of answers but I am asking to explain a little more because I trust the feedback from here and I think others might benefit also
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Smali is a tool that will reverse engineer (baksmali) dalvik byte code into (barely) human readable code. If you can learn to understand this you can reverse and modify stuff with it. If i remember right, brut.all is the guy responsible, have a read around, but i warn you, its not for the feint of heart.
Macbots drool as I XOOM through the Galaxy to my hearts Desire.
bossjeeves said:
this is exactly what I am talking about here, This is kind of why I brought it up in the xoom forum, since we dont have source and we do have a deodexed rom wouldnt playing with that be a great place to start? if so like what would be the best place to start, you say play with smali, now I know I can google and get tons of answers but I am asking to explain a little more because I trust the feedback from here and I think others might benefit also
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Click to collapse
Here is one of the best sources I've found....... made by cyanogen himself, tonnes of info here.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=667298
I did come across this link http://simply-android.wikia.com/wiki/ROM_Development
looks like something that would be a helpful start. thoughts?
ps thanks for the replys
I think the best way to learn anything is just to read a lot, and to search for any questions you have. There are a thousand ways to learn to hack, but they all require the initiative to find answers on your own.
Sorry if this sounds patronizing. I always hated it when I get on a board and ask for something, and some curmudgeon geek tells me "Google is your friend". But it's true. You get better answers faster, as you can avail from the entire Internet, as opposed to the small number of people who reply to your query.
Thanks to the dude who linked to the Cyan advice post. My takeaway is this one line:
"There is a *ton* of information out there but any kind of "step-by-step rom cooking guide" is going to be a complete fail- it's too broad of a subject."
IMO if you are serious about ROM hacking, you need a dedicated linux environment. Cygwin is OK for run-time stuff, but too limited for anything else. If you only want to run basic bash commands, a simpler solution is win-bash (http://win-bash.sourceforge.net).
I'm kinda in the same shoes you are. Android interests me, although I don't have a Xoom or an Android tablet for that matter. Was gonna get a HC tab to tinker, but HC is still too green, so decided on a Nook Color for educational purposes. It's been out a while, and has many hacks already done that I can peruse. That, and it'll be useful for my "read a lot" mantra above.
Developer is someone who build something from the ground right? Do you feel embarrass yourself that you are calling yourself a developer? What? You use the tweak that had been here for many years. You use others port in your rom. You change icons. You remove bloatware. Make a custom rom and call yourself a developer! I think that it's time to change. I call you advanced user. Why? Because most of the feature in your rom, advance user can do it. Supercharge, tweaks, edit build.prop, change theme, change icon.
How about FXP?
They are real developers. They build from source, fix driver issues, optimize and they don't use all that tweaks.
Yeah! There are some real developers out there but not much. Most of people out there are advance user.
So let's stop from now. I know...I know that you help some people but just stop calling your self developer!!
Correct if i'm wrong and you should know who i'm talking about. Sorry for my English.
You have right
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yea..They are just ROM cookers..not developers. Most of the rom cookers in arc forum are just teenagers who are still learning Algebra in college.And they call themselves developers. The word "Developer" is like "Ph.D", they create something, they discover something. they do something from scratch, they do something new.
But ROM cookers are just copy pasting tweaks, adding some themes, and ta-da! they call themselves developers. Developing involves full knowledge of coding in android who actually can help make android even better. Sadly here the word developer is being misused
arpith.fbi said:
yea..They are just ROM cookers..not developers. Most of the rom cookers in arc forum are just teenagers who are still learning Algebra in college.And they call themselves developers. The word "Developer" is like "Ph.D", they create something, they discover something. they do something from scratch, they do something new.
But ROM cookers are just copy pasting tweaks, adding some themes, and ta-da! they call themselves developers. Developing involves full knowledge of coding in android who actually can help make android even better. Sadly here the word developer is being misused
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+1
Sent from my CM9'd Arc
Thanak said:
Developer is someone who build something from the ground right? Do you feel embarrass yourself that you are calling yourself a developer? What? You use the tweak that had been here for many years. You use others port in your rom. You change icons. You remove bloatware. Make a custom rom and call yourself a developer! I think that it's time to change. I call you advanced user. Why? Because most of the feature in your rom, advance user can do it. Supercharge, tweaks, edit build.prop, change theme, change icon.
How about FXP?
They are real developers. They build from source, fix driver issues, optimize and they don't use all that tweaks.
Yeah! There are some real developers out there but not much. Most of people out there are advance user.
So let's stop from now. I know...I know that you help some people but just stop calling your self developer!!
Correct if i'm wrong and you should know who i'm talking about. Sorry for my English.
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Click to collapse
This thread is ridiculous. The OP is splitting hairs here, and trying to argue semantics. The word "developer" is to, and should be, understood as someone who develops, or expands, lends growth to, or motivates the progress of (whatever) -be it education, innovation, technology advancement, etc. If you want to start an analysis of the English language, then get miffed if they call themselves "creators", if by that, they are only 'copying/pasting' code or tweaking existing ROMs or otherwise. Development is taking something that is the in place, and the work to shape and reshape something. When you "develop" cancer, for instance, you are taking what was in the body, the factors that put the body at risk, and compound it with other factors that are necessary to facilitate its "growth". Nobody 'creates' cancer from nothing, there are elements present prior to lead up to the "development" of this disease. Same goes for everything else, when referring to the terms "development" or "developer".
Edit: I realize this is for the Arc forum, and perhaps you have some young 'developers' here, but going beyond that, it's still a matter of arguing meanings of words used to describe someone's abilities, and seems rather innocuous...
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Let the kids play, you only hating!
When I was 13, I wasn't exposed to today's advanced tech, and if I could be young again, I'd be doing the same as the clever "learner developers" on here. They've got to start somewhere right?
There's no harm in the customizations they do & they're certainly not holding a gun to anyone's head!
Sent from my Xperia™ Arc S on good old Gingerbread using Tapatalk 2
The truth is that there is no substantial amount of "original development" in the Arc section as of now,
this is why there is no separate Original Development subforum, like there is in the X8 section, for example.
However, I firmly believe that EVERY contribution to the community is as valuable as the next one.
But we should all remember that we must surround our contributions with a good-driven, modest and polite behavior towards other members.
And even though you do not need to be an adult to signup for XDA, acting like one is very much necessary.
So, both as a member and part of the moderating team, I do not mind if someone calls himself a "developer" (who am I to judge anyway?),
but I do strongly disapprove when people think of themselves high enough to mistreat other members and conduct themselves in a manner breaking the forum rules.