All of my previous mobiles were purely phones that were used for that purpose only. When I decided I needed mobile email etc. for my business a friend who had an HD suggested the HD2 and after reading all the reviews which were pretty unanimous in praising the HD2 and Sense but were very critical about WM, I decided to go for it.
Now what is puzzling me is why so many people are critical of WM? I think it's really rather good and as a business user does eveything that I would ask of it. In fact any problems I've encountered have been with sense and as far as I can see this seems to be the case on this forum as well.
I realise that in it's present incarnation WM is designed for a stylus but on the HD2 with its superb screen I don't have much of a problem using any of the native apps and of course there are plenty of third party apps around.
So am I missing something because I just can't see the downside?
If your introduction to Win Mobile is a device like the HD2 and the resulting user experience then you would be baffled as to what is wrong with it. But keep in mind that the HD2 is exceptional in hardware compared to EVERY OTHER Win Mo device that has ever existed, bar some exceptions.
Most other devices were woefully underpowered to handle an O.S based around a desktop style U.I, never was really finger friendly and the web browser was terrible really until Opera and the others. For me personally, Palm made Win Mobile tolerable to use as well as HTC.
I absolutely agree with you - I have been using WM for years, and at times have used Symbian/UIQ. I used Symbian because my operator gave me an upgrade every year and I was told that the SonyEricsson P series was the best thing for mobile smartphones.
The journalists, almost to a man, agreed with that assessment, showering praise on the P800, P900 and P910.
I do not understand it - to my mind, and for my money, WM beat UIQ unhesitatingly in terms of raw functionality and yet I groaned as I read review after review showering praise on S-E phones and UIQ, saying it was the way of things to come, while damning WM at the same time. There were LOADS of things WM could do that UIQ could not. It was the same when I looked at the ungainly and unusable Symbian Series 60 devices - no touch screen!!! It seems almost laughable now.
At the moment, the journos, who hunt in packs, have it in for WM, and they lose no time in criticising either the OS or any device that uses it.
I agree that WM has long been due for an overhaul, and Apple's iToy has been welcome competition in forcing MS either to upgrade the OS (which it looks like they are doing) or abandon it (which it seems they are not). To my mind, the HD2 just shows what WM is capable of - the best being that it is all there, now, not promiseware.
It is good to hear someone new to WM saying what you are saying - welcome to the club!
rjstep3
So am I missing something because I just can't see the downside?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah these days i would agree there seems not to be a downside worth talking about .. The HD2 makes this tired os shine coupled with sense on top it looks modern and works very well .
I come from an iPhone 3G and im really happy with my HD2 and am impressed at the stability of the phone even on these cooked roms .. The 3G was getting dull and the HD2 was just what was needed.
However this was not always my impression or WinMo, i had an HTC Magician many years ago and i can say with 100% truth this was the worst phone i ever owned . If the battery ran out, and it would in a good few hours, the thing would hard reset and wipe all my data, leaving me to recover from backup, HTC issue or windows i do not know but it was bad .. , Windows was so unstable i would be rebooting the damn thing 1 or more times per day .. horrid .. There are many other faults i used to experience on this phone (phone lol) but i have blocked them out my mind for good.
I avoided windows phones for many a year deciding to use, Ericsson, Nokia, Samsung and Apple instead .. When the HD2 came out and i needed an upgrade, all the reviews i read and watched made me rethink my position .. Very happy i did
You're bound to think Windows Mobile is wonderful if you've never used any of its rivals. You need to spend some time on an iPhone 3GS, and then on a high-end Android phone (the Google Nexus One, for example) to get a balanced opinion.
As LordLugard points out, the HD2 is (in many respects) the best Windows Mobile phone out there; and it achieves this by compensating for, or simply hiding, many of the OS' deficiencies. It's a bit like a well-laid-out house with a monster lurking in the cellar - so long as you stay upstairs, you're fine.
Most of the day-to-day operation on an HD2 is not controlled directly by Windows Mobile, but has been skinned by HTC as part of its "Sense UI" front-end. If you ever have to venture beneath that, then things get much uglier. For example, go onto the settings tab, Data Services, and click ActiveSync. This gets you into the SenseUI screen for ActiveSync settings; looks quite nice, very finger-friendly. But you'll notice this is incomplete: there's no way to set the Peak Times. To do this you need to go Start Menu, Tools, ActiveSync, Menu, Schedule. Now you're in the default Windows Mobile screen for controlling the same settings (as opposed to the Sense UI skin). Notice the immediate visual difference, and how difficult it is to click the checkboxes accurately with your finger? Raw Windows Mobile is like that all the way through; it's just that HTC has managed to hide it most of the time.
Performance is another issue. Windows Mobile 6.5 is based on the Windows CE 5.2 kernel - which hasn't been seriously updated in 5 or 6 years. That means core OS operations are coded in such a way that they cannot take full advantage of any CPU that was designed more recently than that. This means that Windows Mobile always runs much slower than competing OSes on the same hardware. It also (for other reasons) is a memory hog. Again, you don't notice this so much on an HD2, because the Snapdragon processor is fast enough, and there's enough memory, that even Windows Mobile generally doesn't slow it down too much. But there are exceptions. If you look at the specifications for HTC's not-quite-released-yet Bravo phone, for example, this runs on very similar hardware to the HD2 (also based on the Snapdragon chipset) but it offers playback of 720p video clips, and the ability to capture 720p video using the camera. The reason the HD2 can't do is because it's running Windows Mobile.
There are general usability issues, too. Notice how many "tweaks" are advertised on this forum that require specially written utility programmes or registry edits to enable? On other OSes you generally don't need to do this: everything works in a sensible way as soon as you take the phone out of the box. Windows Mobile phones are very much ongoing projects - it takes weeks or even months to get them working the way you want. If you're the sort of person who enjoys that, great. And, arguably, if you are an inveterate tweaker, WinMo offers a higher degree of customisability. But many people prefer a phone that just works; and Android and iPhone do a much better job of that.
There are many other issues, too; the complete lack of multi-touch support in the OS is an obvious one.
I'm new to windows mobile, and have to say I don't get why it's put down so much. Sure it's taken me a couple of weeks to get my head around, and sure you may have to tweak settings to get the phone how you want it, but that's half the fun (although sometimes can cause you intense frustration). I've come from an iphone, and whilst this works better out of the box and you don't need to tweak as much, there were still things I wanted to tweak to get it just how I wanted it, but couldn't unless I jailbroke it. When I did this it was much slower at times and more glitchy. I tried several jailbreaks and they were all the same. Blackra1n was the best I found but still upset the phone.
Anyway, back onto winmo, my only negative comments about it have already been mentioned by others. It's not as finger friendly as other OS's, including sense, but it's not that bad really. And it's a little ugly, but again not that bad. The good points far out-weigh the bad imo
Shasarak said:
Performance is another issue. Windows Mobile 6.5 is based on..... this means that Windows Mobile always runs much slower than competing OSes on the same hardware..... is a memory hog..... The reason the HD2 can't do is because it's running Windows Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again trying to spread that lie?
I get the feeling that you're paid by Apple to spread this kind of FUD...
Edited to remove response to a misplaced quote .. (it was out of place given context now above)
Cass67 said:
So this is not true ? I was under impression that from the system info pages this is a WinCE 5.02 based OS .. Wrong ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, the quote was misplaced.
It is a WinCE based OS but that does not at all mean that it's slower than in any noticeable way and it has nothing to do with the ability of playing HD video.
Neither iPhone nor Android make use of any of the ARMv7 instructions in order to play HD video (and btw. the iPhone doesn't officially play HD video). Moreover, if you compare Android, Windows Mobile and iPhone OS on similar hardware, you can see that Windows Mobile is just as fast in most of the day-to-day tasks and even faster at some. And lastly, iPhone OS is much more of a memory hog than Windows Mobile, which you can see by comparing the RAM usage of both, and in addition to that, Windows Mobile has much better memory management (which is probably one of the reasons why Apple doesn't allow multitasking).
freyberry said:
It is a WinCE based OS but that does not at all mean that it's slower than in any noticeable way and it has nothing to do with the ability of playing HD video.
Sorry, the quote was misplaced.
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Heh, no worries ..
freyberry said:
(and btw. the iPhone doesn't officially play HD video).
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Officially, no. Unofficially it can play 1080p video. See, for example, http://gizmodo.com/5045466/the-iphone-handles-1080p-video-just-fine
freyberry said:
Moreover, if you compare Android, Windows Mobile and iPhone OS on similar hardware, you can see that Windows Mobile is just as fast in most of the day-to-day tasks and even faster at some.
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Click to collapse
I'd have more patience for that claim if it were not self-evidently untrue. Android apps can be a bit held back by the whole Java architecture, sure; but what exactly is your explanation as to why the HTC Bravo can both play and record 720p when the HD2 can't, despite being based on virtually identical hardware? It's clearly nothing whatever to do with drivers and hardware acceleration. There are plenty of applications that offer hardware-accelerated playback under Windows Mobile. On the HD2 we get hardware-accelerated MP4's and WMV's in Pocket Media Player. On the TG01, the specially customised version of Coreplayer that the phone ships with offers hardware-accelerated playback of any codec that CorePlayer supports. And yet neither application on either phone can play 720p video at acceptable speeds.
I recall that your stated position the last time we discussed this was that a hardware-accelerated version of CorePlayer could not possibly exist (see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622393&page=2 posts #18 and #20); this despite the fact that it ships with every TG01 sold and that several people had previously downloaded it from this forum and run it on an HD2 (see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=613355 ). You then went on to demand that I supply evidence in support of claims I hadn't made. Frankly, your credibility on this point is in tatters; so, can we just drop it, please? Stop trying to derail the thread.
(And before anyone asks, no, I cannot tell you where to download the TG01 version of CorePlayer.)
Officially, no. Unofficially it can play 1080p video.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why I said officially.
hat exactly is your explanation as to why the HTC Bravo can both play and record 720p when the HD2 can't
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because the Bravo has drivers, the HD2 has not. It's as simple as that. If anyone would make drivers for the HD2, it could play HD video as well.
And by the way, those drivers do exist in the labs of Qualcomm.
Since you are unable to point me to the proof of the Coreplayer version playing 720p in EVERY format, your post is just empty words. Looking at the thread you linked, I can absolutely not see any proof of that. Instead, I can see proof of what I am saying.
Do you always post random links in order to "prove" your lies and hope nobody reads them?
Additionally, your claims that WM is responsible for the lack of HD video playback capabilities contradict the existence of a Coreplayer version for WM that plays HD video. It also proves my point that it's all about drivers and has nothing to do with the operating system.
Truth is, the HD2's inability to play HD video as absolutely NOTHING to do with Windows Mobile. Moreover, your claims that Windows Mobile is in any way slower than the other OSs is just wrong. It is not only just as fast, it also has much better memory management than for example the iPhone, which is why Apple doesn't allow multitasking and while you can run lots of applications simultaneously on a WM device with 128MB RAM, it's almost impossible to send more than one or two applications to the background on a hacked iPhone 3G with the same amount of RAM, which proves that your claims of WM being a "memory hog" are utter bull****, just like all the rest of what you allege.
I'm not going to accept that you spread that kind of bull**** here on the forum. You're a liar (or maybe paid for spreading FUD), and your insistence on those false (and even contradictory) claims is not only ridiculous, it doesn't make them true either.
Same here, I cant find any Major flows in the OS yet!
But when you read about WM in Google, forums! they scare you about the problems!
Yes sure it dosent have as much Apps as other Mobile Os, But every app i need i got in here and a damn fast phone
But sure if compared to older phones it might be unfair.
I am 100% sure that I read in a tech review that Windows Mobile disables the HD functions built into the Snapdragon. Is this not so?
donalgodon said:
I am 100% sure that I read in a tech review that Windows Mobile disables the HD functions built into the Snapdragon. Is this not so?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is not so.
Shasarak said:
You're bound to think Windows Mobile is wonderful if you've never used any of its rivals. You need to spend some time on an iPhone 3GS, and then on a high-end Android phone (the Google Nexus One, for example) to get a balanced opinion.
As LordLugard points out, the HD2 is (in many respects) the best Windows Mobile phone out there; and it achieves this by compensating for, or simply hiding, many of the OS' deficiencies. It's a bit like a well-laid-out house with a monster lurking in the cellar - so long as you stay upstairs, you're fine.
Most of the day-to-day operation on an HD2 is not controlled directly by Windows Mobile, but has been skinned by HTC as part of its "Sense UI" front-end. If you ever have to venture beneath that, then things get much uglier. For example, go onto the settings tab, Data Services, and click ActiveSync. This gets you into the SenseUI screen for ActiveSync settings; looks quite nice, very finger-friendly. But you'll notice this is incomplete: there's no way to set the Peak Times. To do this you need to go Start Menu, Tools, ActiveSync, Menu, Schedule. Now you're in the default Windows Mobile screen for controlling the same settings (as opposed to the Sense UI skin). Notice the immediate visual difference, and how difficult it is to click the checkboxes accurately with your finger? Raw Windows Mobile is like that all the way through; it's just that HTC has managed to hide it most of the time.
Performance is another issue. Windows Mobile 6.5 is based on the Windows CE 5.2 kernel - which hasn't been seriously updated in 5 or 6 years. That means core OS operations are coded in such a way that they cannot take full advantage of any CPU that was designed more recently than that. This means that Windows Mobile always runs much slower than competing OSes on the same hardware. It also (for other reasons) is a memory hog. Again, you don't notice this so much on an HD2, because the Snapdragon processor is fast enough, and there's enough memory, that even Windows Mobile generally doesn't slow it down too much. But there are exceptions. If you look at the specifications for HTC's not-quite-released-yet Bravo phone, for example, this runs on very similar hardware to the HD2 (also based on the Snapdragon chipset) but it offers playback of 720p video clips, and the ability to capture 720p video using the camera. The reason the HD2 can't do is because it's running Windows Mobile.
There are general usability issues, too. Notice how many "tweaks" are advertised on this forum that require specially written utility programmes or registry edits to enable? On other OSes you generally don't need to do this: everything works in a sensible way as soon as you take the phone out of the box. Windows Mobile phones are very much ongoing projects - it takes weeks or even months to get them working the way you want. If you're the sort of person who enjoys that, great. And, arguably, if you are an inveterate tweaker, WinMo offers a higher degree of customisability. But many people prefer a phone that just works; and Android and iPhone do a much better job of that.
There are many other issues, too; the complete lack of multi-touch support in the OS is an obvious one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL...
gabbs said:
LOL...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you even qoute that BS?
freyberry said:
Why do you even qoute that BS?
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Click to collapse
some ppl might be reading it and think it's fact..
LOL
well this is my first wm phone and what a choice I made,its totally awesome and for me blows all other phones out of the park. I had the Sony satio before this but sent it back after 5 days,I'm so glad I did.as for apps,you just have to look about,there's 1000's spread about....I also know a good site for (free) games....lol
donwhann said:
... I also know a good site for (free) games....lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May I remind you of the forum rules - this site is for sharing!
So if you know of a site with some good free (and legal) games, please let us in on the info!
thanks
rjstep3
Related
an iPod Touch/iPhone can play 3d games, utilise the g-sensor and run smoothly - for example racing games. Tilt the iPhone, the car turns.
Why can't our phones run these sort of games? Or is it just the case they haven't yet been produced?
From what I'm aware a Diamond is more powerful than an iPhone therefore these games "shouldn't" be a problem?
Shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, just kinda thought there should be iPhone-esque software for these phones now.
I am right with you, i keep thinking the same thing.
Because Apple has crazy fanboys and they provided a simple infrastructure to facilitate payment and downloading (appstore). They also gimped the iphone out of the box so as to pretty much require people to sign up for the appstore if they actually want to use it, ensuring that they have the user base they need for it.
Now the iphone has several million users - how many Diamonds do you think are sold? Windows mobile itself is bigger, but the capabilities of the phones running it vary too much that profiting from making advanced games is as feasible.
I have wondered about this as well. I think the problem is 3 fold
Firstly, the Diamond has 3d and graphics performance issues for sure. Sometimes my Diamond will slow down terribly when running some simple animations. I have read that HTC are notorious for providing poor graphics drivers and this could be part of the reason.
Secondly, I actually dont think Windows Mobile is capable of doing what the iPhone UI is capable of in terms of interactive gaming.
Thirdly, Apple provide your at home developers a great business model to go out and develop great games and apps for the phone. Plus with the Appstore they know that if they develop something good, people will see it - there is only one place to get apps from - and the developer will make money.
For me, the iPhone is not the right phone, but I would love Windows Mobile and HTC to be able to do what the iPhone and Apple can do.
The iPhone has v-sync, so the 3d graphics are drawn smoothly with no tearing and sadly win mo just does not. At least that is what my mate said who is a games developer. The power is there but you just can't get it to the wheels! This just makes it fundamentally unappealing to a lot of developers.
yeah totally agree, i love the diamond, but i've been using windows mobile for years now, and each new model HAS generally got better and better. however the iPhone is just something else.. for people who aren't nerds and into mucking around iwth their phone etc, i could never recommend a windows mobile over an iPhone. its just so much more polished compared to the diamond.
i'm an AMD fan too, godamnit why do i always have to back the underdog
Yes, even though i have a diamond and have had great fun tweaking it, i still can't help but envy the iPhone users for their graphically superior games and video playback prowess .
Another explanation would be that iPhone games are developed solely for... u guessed it, iPhones! ...whereas WinMo games have to be developed to run across many different devices, with (or lack of) accelerometers, touch screens etc. Therefore, to achieve this interoperability / compatibility across the many different devices, compromises have to be made.
That said, there are still gd games for our beloved devices, my favourite being PDAMill, whom develop aesthetically pleasing games with intuitive controls, and they're cheap too.
Nudge.
So all in all, will it become possible? And what's vsync? Portable to diamonds?
I think V sync is something to do with the way images are drawn to the screen, and it is just not implemented in win mo, I don't know if it could be written into the drivers or of it is a hardware thing, but then I don't actually have a clue what I'm talking about! Can anyone confirm this?
vsync actually makes bad performance even worse since it forces the back buffer to wait until right after a screen refresh before it copies its data to the frame buffer.
it's great if the device is capable of rendering an FPS that is higher than the refresh rate, but in the diamond case it's just another fps thief
if you want games like iphone get an ipod touch. The diamond never advertised gaming as a capability. Think of it this way: The iphone is like a mac with mediocre hardware but also comes with a mid range video card. The diamond/touch pro are like PC's with raging motherboard/cpu/ram combo, but bottom entry level video card. You can get a lot done with the PC, but the fun factor lies in the mac.
Go buy virtual pool mobile, it runs great and it's very fun. Its the best pool video game ive ever seen actually.
Simple reason
The reason to me is simple: Apple cares about user experience. Just look at win mobile contacts, or explorer. Do you think this software is made for 2008-2009 hardware? Now look at iphone's ones... Seriously, Microsoft has the power to make good things for mobile users, but they released win mo 6.1 one year ago, which is mainly the same OS that existed in 2003.
Silly we when we buy pocketpc running on windows mobile.
Just to revive a dead thread for quite a good reason..
I've seen a few videos on Youtube and also a few write ups on the wonderful Tinterweb in relation to Windows Mobile devices running and successfully playing iPhone games through emulation.
Is this just simple hear-say or fake ? I've been thinking for a long time about focusing simply on making the graphical capabilities of the diamond better through customising the graphics drivers. That's the main flaw for me.
According to a few posts the graphics card has 64MB dedicated memory.. is this right?
If so, these things SHOULD be capable of running bloody good games but the drivers are just nowhere near good enough. I did hear about changing to ATI drivers - is this right? If so, where can I find the info on this cause I would like to maybe bash at hybrid-combining the drivers and modifying them a bit as to allow maybe a bit more fluid graphics. If you check one of my other posts on the Diamond, I've been complaining about split-graphics. It's really getting on my nerves as I'd rather just see a full picture move around my screen fluidly. None of this "split it up" rubbish.
Cheers
Driver dev
This seems to be a good thread with most/all of the available drivers posted.
well I have been enjoying copy + paste and fully working GPS on my Diamond ever since
now why hasn't Apple offered this so far?
I guess each company chooses their own battles
glumetu said:
well I have been enjoying copy + paste and fully working GPS on my Diamond ever since
now why hasn't Apple offered this so far?
I guess each company chooses their own battles
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hrrm.. In the new 3.0 SDK update for iPhone 3G and iPod Touch which will be released soon there is copy and paste + redo.. in a very stylish and functional way.
And there will be mms + almost every single function that the iPhone was lacking before + some more.. many, many new stuff for improved gaming, new OS improvements etc.
I watched the presentation on the apple website..
Shoddy_me said:
Hrrm.. In the new 3.0 SDK update for iPhone 3G and iPod Touch which will be released soon there is copy and paste + redo.. in a very stylish and functional way.
And there will be mms + almost every single function that the iPhone was lacking before + some more.. many, many new stuff for improved gaming, new OS improvements etc.
I watched the presentation on the apple website..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stuff that should have been released last year. The only reason Apple is releasing it when they are is because people's 2 year contracts are starting to expire, and Apple wants to try and persuade them from leaving by finally giving them features they've been demanding from day 1.
Honestly, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I knew Apple would do that.
Heres my question:
Smart phones and windows mobile operating system have been around for something like, oh, 15 years now. Why is it some EMO company like Apple releases a phone (badly I might add) and it becomes THE Benchmark for mobile devices? Its just purely unbelievable to me that so many people obsess over "well the iphone can do this, and it can do that.. I want my ______ to do what the iphone does..." If you like the turd and all its glory so much, why don't you just buy one and get it over with??
the iphone is so easy to use, thats why so many people bought one. when everyone has something, it becomes the norm to judge other things by. think of the model t from ford
Model T?
Confused.com. Is that the foreign (for me) Focus? lol
Anyways, I've looked about and the ATI drivers have given me the power boost I'm happy with. However - My images are still split on the screen.
Still trying to get this fixed...
Hey folks,
being XPERIA owner for two months, I was often annoyed by the slugginess, bad operationality and quite many [small] issues.
Now I've ordered and got an "Android Dev Phone 1" (= HTC Dream = T-Mobile G1) and I love it! The interface is clean and smooth, it feels so much faster now! Sure some things aren't implemented yet (eg. virtual keybord or synchronization with Outlook) but I actually don't need them, and most of them will come already with the next Android update in Jan/Feb.
So I'm now swithing to the "HTC Dream" section and to other forums.
Any questions à la "Android vs Windows" or "X1 vs G1" are welcome here, though.
Best regards,
Vygi
I tried that phone in the T-mobile shop when I was still waiting for the X1 to appear and didn't like anything about it.. still - each to their own!
i like the design of X1 better than the G1. but i like linux (using on laptop to).
it would be nice to run android on X1
commodoor said:
it would be nice to run android on X1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*2
The G1 didn't do it for me since it has a low-res 480x320 screen. Even now, with the X1's mighty WVGA screen I sometime wish it was even sharper, something like 1024x600 would do just fine .
Tweaking and a couple of apps loaded onto the phone, my Xperia is working awesome! I love it more than i did my iPhone! startup is a bit slow... meh! but who cares!
Anyways... G1 doesn't appeal to me... and besides - if i do like any next release of Android or even Blackberry OS, i'll unload Windows off of Xperia and load 'em onto Xperia.
Actually I'm still shocked how awful WM is. I used phone and Palm T5 before and I wanted to have all in one package, so I went for Xperia.
While the device is nice, that software is bad, bad, bad. Everything is slow, ill designed, all freeware I found is full of bugs, even lot's of commercial software simply does not work.
What is also shocking me is while my T5 is two years old now, it plays movies 20% better then Xperia (TCPMP on Palm, CorePlayer on Xperia) !
Maybe it's a bit early for Android, but WM is just crap, it must be all started over. PalmOS was great, and there is no replacement.
I say bring on NVIDIA Tegra chip based mobiles with WinMo7. :O
Dr.Sid said:
Actually I'm still shocked how awful WM is. I used phone and Palm T5 before and I wanted to have all in one package, so I went for Xperia.
While the device is nice, that software is bad, bad, bad. Everything is slow, ill designed, all freeware I found is full of bugs, even lot's of commercial software simply does not work.
What is also shocking me is while my T5 is two years old now, it plays movies 20% better then Xperia (TCPMP on Palm, CorePlayer on Xperia) !
Maybe it's a bit early for Android, but WM is just crap, it must be all started over. PalmOS was great, and there is no replacement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The market & reality tells it all. If PalmOS is so great, it wouldn't be dying like the way it is now. It UI (especially the input method) was so hard to use and handle for ordinary people. It may run smoother and more efficiently than WM, but the real truth is it's does not handle multi-tasking.
It would be cool to have Android on the X1 next to WinMo. I hope the guys over here can get it to work properly:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=456595&page=11
Not sure if they're still working on it though..
Dr.Sid said:
Actually I'm still shocked how awful WM is. I used phone and Palm T5 before and I wanted to have all in one package, so I went for Xperia.
While the device is nice, that software is bad, bad, bad. Everything is slow, ill designed, all freeware I found is full of bugs, even lot's of commercial software simply does not work.
What is also shocking me is while my T5 is two years old now, it plays movies 20% better then Xperia (TCPMP on Palm, CorePlayer on Xperia) !
Maybe it's a bit early for Android, but WM is just crap, it must be all started over. PalmOS was great, and there is no replacement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used SKTools, Advanced configuration Tool, and XperiaTweak to tweak up my Xperia's performance.
I also installed HTC's Touch HD's keyboard but didn't like it, especially when it opened slow at times and so on... so i uninstalled that and moved to SPB Keyboard - which is AWESOME!
Then... i installed IneSoft AddressBook + Phone. Way quicker than Xperia's AddressBook/Contacts and dialer, quicker, and a cool looking Today screen add-in. Really Fast! And i totally love it! (i like the dialer better than HTC's TF3D Dialer as well).
With these tweaks and apps, and a few additional freeware stuff (like flash today screens, battery indicators, and so on) my Xperia is functioning really fast and without problems.
FYI - i also have panels running and TF3D installed as a Panel (which is running way smoother and faster after using SKTools to tweak up the device). I also have Winterface installed, though barely ever use it - it is enabled though in the background. I also have Push Mail enabled on the device which works flawlessly - as it did on my iPhone. And over 10 games installed working without any lags.
I won't lie, but there are occassional hiccups/lags, but not as much for one to notice. (even my iPhone faced quite a couple of lags and hang-ups once i installed apps onto it and so on). The only thing i hate at this point is the startup of the device... oh and the Facebook panel, which has the tendency to crash sometimes...
Best Regards.
Salman Khalid.
msalmank said:
...oh and the Facebook panel, which has the tendency to crash sometimes...
Best Regards.
Salman Khalid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried the updated version? Much improved on the initial release, I recommend you try it out.
spr33 said:
Have you tried the updated version? Much improved on the initial release, I recommend you try it out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep... i updated it. And it is improved, a lot! but still has the tendency to crash at times. Mostly when it is refreshing the main page and i hit the Panel button (not always, but usually) and a few other random occurrences...
Dr.Sid said:
Actually I'm still shocked how awful WM is. I used phone and Palm T5 before and I wanted to have all in one package, so I went for Xperia.
While the device is nice, that software is bad, bad, bad. Everything is slow, ill designed, all freeware I found is full of bugs, even lot's of commercial software simply does not work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My experiences aren't so extreme but I feel somewhat the same: great hardware, but lame operating system, bad and non-uniform operatibility, and so on. When I ask "how to do this" or "how to manage that", often I get advices to apply registra hacks and use special system tweaks or install some additional software. When after them the system is slow of some strange issues appear - then I have to blyme myself, because I have too many things installed and too many settings changed!
Now I have found an alternative which costs 20% less and is about 200% better (faster/more stable) to me!
There are actually just very few things I like more on Xperia:
- better battery
- better screen resolution
- light sensor to change screen brightess
And there are things which are better on DevPlone1 (G1/Dream):
- much much better user interface
- generally much faster, no freezes/blackouts/pauses
- great multitasking/task switching (eg. the browser starts in 0,5 sec)
- compass and g-sensor available
- better keyboard
- better speaker
- great integration of online Email, Contacts, Calendar
- software easy to find and to install
- faster battery charging
Next year many other Android devices will be available, and I maybe I will take another one, but also with the current Dream/G1/DevPhone1 I am much more happy than with X1!
In short... For me, when i played with HTC Touch Diamond (my cousin's) i liked the power of Windows Mobile but was totally NOT impressed by the usual lags and bugginess of the device... so i was really concerned if Windows Mobile would be a good choice (i was looking at the Blackberry Bold as an alternative to WinMo). Eventually, i decided to go with X1 and though initially it was better than i expected but not that good either, after a tweak here and there and a little enhancements the Xperiance has turned out be quite ideal. Sure laggy at times (though not occassional), but it is turning out to be the device i thought it would be, if not better!
vygi said:
Next year many other Android devices will be available, and I maybe I will take another one, but also with the current Dream/G1/DevPhone1 I am much more happy than with X1!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Though Windows Mobile is more professional of an OS, and tweaking + optimizing can make the experience better... but there's no denying that Android holds a lot of potential - especially being Open Source!!!
When i look at the G1 phone i'm more like "Bleh!", but i do like Android. When more features come - including Microsoft Exchange and a full office suite (maybe these are already available... not sure) and more - and it all comes loaded into a better looking phone, i might go for it as well. But i'll definitely be holding onto my Xperia. It is by far the best windows mobile device ever! and regardless of the not-so-usual lags and Windows Mobile bugs/limitations... i don't regret purchasing it at all.
I will probably end up buying an Android phone in the near future as well and then have three phones to myself...
Microsoft really needs to step up and get one heck of a Windows Mobile 7 operating system released as soon as possible! And having tested Windows 7 on my desktop - seeing how Microsoft is finally going in the right direction, i'm positive that they will surprise us this time with a Windows Mobile that actually performs better than any other OS out there.
are you selling your X1 i would like to buy it please PM me
Thank you; no Microsoft anymore: not 6th, nor 7th nor 8th++.
Two months were more that enough.
Now I enjoy the speed and power of Android** (the 1st!) every single minute.
**) it might be Nokia N97 with the touch-screen-capable Symbian S60 as well.... it just comes too late to me.
jackleung said:
The market & reality tells it all. If PalmOS is so great, it wouldn't be dying like the way it is now. It UI (especially the input method) was so hard to use and handle for ordinary people. It may run smoother and more efficiently than WM, but the real truth is it's does not handle multi-tasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course if the so-called "market" (read cartel) had any sort of bloody clue whatsoever, we wouldn't have been held back 10 years on desktop PCs with a crappy, inferior 8086 archtecture. PalmOS isn't any great shakes, but any OS like WM that takes 5 seconds to dismiss a "SMS sent" notification on high-end hardware should have been drowned at birth, and failing that should be put out of it's misery post-haste! Free Software FTW!
will it be possible to update to wm7 on the xperia when it comes out without any problems? im new to smartphones and don't know how customizable they are
Carreragt17 said:
will it be possible to update to wm7 on the xperia when it comes out without any problems? im new to smartphones and don't know how customizable they are
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When the time comes... we'll see. Officially i don't think so, but i'm sure we'll see cooked roms flying in in no time!
You don't have to read this, you can just vote.
Ok, we have all heard about OS 3.0.
Faster, multi - tasking, A2DP, other bluetooth improvements such as file transfer, MMS, video capture, onboard video editing software included, etc..
The new iPhone to be released end of June is also going to have a few hardware changes. Have heard that it is 16 to 32 gb, that there is a 5mp autofocus camera with a quality lens on back, and a 3mp on the front (compared to our VGA), thinner (of course, pretty much a guarantee), possible bigger and sharper screen, etc...
It seems to me as if Apple has really (unlike MS) done what a company should...analyze the competition (primarily Android but also webOS and RIM), and redesign and improve their product accordingly. They have gotten rid of pretty muh all of the stupid annoyances, made it faster and smaller, and given developers much more access to different system level things for their apps, along with about a million other changes and improvements that you can and probably have read about. I am also really thinking that they will have good integration with things such as facebook, gmail, and outlook.
I really think there will be no question and that it truly will be the #1 device really without any competition. The only competition I can see is maybe something such as the HTC Magic that is thinner, has a larger, higher res screen, and comes stock with unbranded Android 1.5 (such as some of the HTC line up we have seen).
I just DESPERATELY hope that Apple isn't so stupid and naiive as to not put on MORE BUTTONS! Buttons are always better...always having to quit what you're doing and go back to the home screen to do ANYTHING would drive me insane...I love texting on my HD, then pulling up the phone and calling someone, sticking it on speaker, then going back to texting...that's not too much to ask I don't think.
So vote!
As for what I'm doing. I am jumping ship to the new iPhone. If I find it doesn't satisfy me, I will sell it and get the best Android handset I can find. Hopefully something like the Magic, but thinner, having a bigger, more high res screen, and comes stock with unbranded Android 1.5. If no new non - keyboard Anroid handsets are out by that time...Magic it is! (if it is ever released)
im gonna have to see the official specs and the actual device before i decide anything,if what is mentioned is true then perhaps. but im looking more at the Palm Pre than the iPhone, we will see
Ok, firstly MS is doing something about it, they are working on two new OSs at the moment, secondly its not MS that makes the phone, this is the problem and the holy grail with WM phones, firstly its a problem because MS has no say what hardware is used with its OS, this means like its desktop cousin it needs to support many things well and i believe to an extent it achieves this, but it doesnt excel at any of them. Its the holy grail because with the Iphone, you get 1 phone, 1 set of gear, 1 design for every possible usage, with WM devices you get exactly what you want because you have the choice to choose different phones, different specs and design for your needs.
Im leaving out Android here for 1 reason, it sucks, no no hear me out, apple has a HUGH following with its iPods which translate in to potential iPhone sales, android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good but its an alternative to the evil of Microsoft and ties of Apple which makes then appeal to others and thats fair enough, its a market as good as any.
But here is the reason ill be sticking with my Microsoft Windows Mobile based PDA, it works, it works fairly quick, it looks as good as an iPhone and i can install pretty much anything i want on it. Weres Tomtom for android or the Iphone? where is memory Map? where is the ease of use when syncing with Outlook? wheres Igo8? core player? world card mobile? the various language programs? all my security and tracking programs, the million and 1 apps available on the net, free or paid that have a propper support base if it all goes wrong, data retrivel?
some of those i use every day, i use many others every day, and yes there may be alternatives for some, but unless i can get them ALL working on one of the other two devices ill not change because i need them all and thats as simple as it gets.
With a desktop OS you can dual boot or virtual PC it, an thats fine if thats your thng, but you cant do that at the moment on the PDA and even if you could i doubt i would because its a hassle i can do without, WM works and works well enough and im sure its only going to get better.
And what will be the screen resolution of new iPhone?
Current iPhone is a no go for me - with such low screen resolution reading eBooks and surfing the internet is really, really bad.
Waiting eagerly for the new iPhone so definitely jumping ship...
I've got a Mac and syncing is nearly impossible. I've tried all sort of apps but none worked perfectly. I really need to sync address book and calendar and I've had enough of transferring mp3 files one by one, artwork not working etc etc.
the mp3 function is very important for me and the iPhone is perfect for that.
only problem I've got is I don't like the iPhone's current design. It's so 2 years ago. Hopefully they'll come up with a nice sleek design.
Why are Windows Mobile Apps falling behind IPhone ones?
One of the things that has always interest me when making such a decision is: What do developers think? How do they view developing for iPhone versus for winmo platform?
To gain insight into the thinking of developers, including some rather big names in winmo application development, you guys might want to read these extremely interesting threads:
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ed...s-mobile-apps-falling-behind-iphone-ones.html
and
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=6481405#post6481405
dazza9075 said:
Ok, firstly MS is doing something about it, they are working on two new OSs at the moment, secondly its not MS that makes the phone, this is the problem and the holy grail with WM phones, firstly its a problem because MS has no say what hardware is used with its OS, this means like its desktop cousin it needs to support many things well and i believe to an extent it achieves this, but it doesnt excel at any of them. Its the holy grail because with the Iphone, you get 1 phone, 1 set of gear, 1 design for every possible usage, with WM devices you get exactly what you want because you have the choice to choose different phones, different specs and design for your needs.
Im leaving out Android here for 1 reason, it sucks, no no hear me out, apple has a HUGH following with its iPods which translate in to potential iPhone sales, android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good but its an alternative to the evil of Microsoft and ties of Apple which makes then appeal to others and thats fair enough, its a market as good as any.
But here is the reason ill be sticking with my Microsoft Windows Mobile based PDA, it works, it works fairly quick, it looks as good as an iPhone and i can install pretty much anything i want on it. Weres Tomtom for android or the Iphone? where is memory Map? where is the ease of use when syncing with Outlook? wheres Igo8? core player? world card mobile? the various language programs? all my security and tracking programs, the million and 1 apps available on the net, free or paid that have a propper support base if it all goes wrong, data retrivel?
some of those i use every day, i use many others every day, and yes there may be alternatives for some, but unless i can get them ALL working on one of the other two devices ill not change because i need them all and thats as simple as it gets.
With a desktop OS you can dual boot or virtual PC it, an thats fine if thats your thng, but you cant do that at the moment on the PDA and even if you could i doubt i would because its a hassle i can do without, WM works and works well enough and im sure its only going to get better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. We all know MS is doing something about it. But we also all know that virtually all MS products suck. We also all know that MS is SLOOOW...therefore (like I said), by the time winmo 7 is released, it will already be behind. It will be released around 3rd quarter 2010...that's ridiculous. Another year from now Android will no longer be so new, and Apple will have put out something entirely new as they know ppl will be getting tired of iPhone by then. Not to mention what RIM and Nokia will be doing.
2. Where is the basis that Android sucks? It is faster than WM, that much is for sure. It is also more customizable. It is more modern. 3rd party app support does not make an OS good or bad....your argument that they suck cuz they don't have apps is no good to me. Sure it can make or break the success of the OS but...that's got nothing to do with the OS itself. Android has a LOT on WM and WM has...virtually nothing on Android. It looks ancient, it runs ancient, and it's that simple. I think we can all agree on that last line there.
3. "android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good"
- Gotta admit that you really lost me there.
4. Windows Mobile is in fact rather slow, even on good hardware with good drivers.
5. Windows Mobile crashes all the time even fresh after a hard reset, no apps installed, on an official ROM (just like the desktop Windows!)
6. iPhone has better syncing solutions that ActiveSync and Outlook.
7. Just FYI to all reading this...I am a Windows user and have been for years (all my life). I am not an outsider looking in and criticizing Windows w/o due reason and experience. I recently installed OSX86 on my PC however and...it truly is really nice. MS sucks. Bottom line, and there is really no avoiding it.
8. All OS's have pro's and cons. There are just as many if not more arguments against all your arguments for Windows Mobile. My point is simply that the new iPhone truly is a lot better than any Windows Mobile device running the latest WM 6.5.
MrYdude said:
And what will be the screen resolution of new iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No kidding. Couldn't agree more. Coming from a Touch HD and having looked at a lot of friends iPhones...their screens look terrible when reading text (altho they do have 16 million colors compared to our 65,000. Side note: Android also has 16 million colors).
Sadly though I have read that they plan not to change the resolution in order to keep all apps usable. I reallly hope not.
It's true, MS does not have any influence on the phone hardware.
However, an operating system's success is not about hardware potential or software potential or about a combination of both: it's about a tangible offer of potentially attractive software which can be easily obtained via a single entry point, i.e. an APP STORE. That's currently the BIGGEST drawback of the WM platform. I love the customization part of WM but it took me ages to get there. Many users won't take that road and therefore go for the iphone.
There's also a lock-in effect to this -> More users to an OS platform means that developing for that platform gets attractive, thus attracting developers and making the apps offer even more powerful. That in turn increases the chances of attracting new users to the platform, etc.
Honestly, considering all this, do you really a 50 megapixel camera or a nVidia Geforce 8800 GTX in your phone ?? What about all the already hidden potential in your phones which never gets explored because developers and users do not get a realistic chance to discover all of its limitations ?
I'm pretty sure that the new iPhone does not support multi-tasking, you're still stuck to doing one thing at a time. I believe Apples official unofficial stand on it is that they spent way too much time and money on their failed push notifications, and they're not going to allow multi-tasking. (Apple does not like to say it's wrong...and if they would release multi-tasking, I'm sure they'll call it something else, and put a patent on it for no reason).
You know what...
I just love the WM and WM based devices.
They have ALL i need
They are fully customizable and have fully multitasking support.
With iPhone, you will get what it is, and you will get stucked with iTunes and online store
Many iPhone apps (though looks amazing) are not so usable
I just need functionality much more then a great user interface
Peace all
Well i won't go for the Iphone i have my HD and i'm stuck on it to change something that good you need to buy something "special" and from the looks of it the new Iphone will be a bit better than the last one so why do i give a great amount of money to switch to something "a bit" better.Let's see Palm Pre and other Android devices now the market will be devided not only for WM an Iphone but Android and Palm OS also so i won't hurry to go for the new stuff as you can never know which one is better until you try them for at lesat 4-6 months maybe even more....so let's wait and see "newer" is not the same as "better" .
andes83 said:
Well i won't go for the Iphone i have my HD and i'm stuck on it to change something that good you need to buy something "special" and from the looks of it the new Iphone will be a bit better than the last one so why do i give a great amount of money to switch to something "a bit" better.Let's see Palm Pre and other Android devices now the market will be devided not only for WM an Iphone but Android and Palm OS also so i won't hurry to go for the new stuff as you can never know which one is better until you try them for at lesat 4-6 months maybe even more....so let's wait and see "newer" is not the same as "better" .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think it is going to be more than "a bit better".
As you saw there are hundreds of features and fixes in the new OS, plus new hardware changes such has considerably better CPU, double the RAM, better camera, thinner etc..
iori said:
You know what...
I just love the WM and WM based devices.
They have ALL i need
They are fully customizable and have fully multitasking support.
With iPhone, you will get what it is, and you will get stucked with iTunes and online store
Many iPhone apps (though looks amazing) are not so usable
I just need functionality much more then a great user interface
Peace all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iori,
There are lots of misconceptions about iPhone, so I don't blame you for having incomplete or wrong information.
iPhone is extremley customizable too, and you too can have multitasking once jailbroken. Therefore, you do not get what it is - you get what you want it to be. You don't get stucked with iTunes and online store. You get the benefit but you can also get things outside iTune and online store.
Whoever gives you the idea that the iPhone aplls are not useable does not know what he is talking about. When app store was first available, many low quality applications did get listed. Not anymore. Whether you're an advanced IT network adminstrator, sales executives, finance director, web site marketer, shipping agent, there are really nice applications for you. Trust me on this one. Don't just anyhow believe people who tells you that iPhone is just a toy and winmo is for corporate use. iPhone can be as corporate as you want it to be.
Cheers.
Anyway, iPhone is still quite poor on the GPS domain.
6 or 7 apps (park lane, radar, around me, traffic, etc) to do all that my iGO can natively do... and still no turn-by-turn soft buyable on the iPhone.
I want a real all in one, and neither the actual iPhone or the next one won't be a real one. My friends who own an iphone have all get a specific GPS, and well, everything's said...
Roupette said:
Anyway, iPhone is still quite poor on the GPS domain.
6 or 7 apps (park lane, radar, around me, traffic, etc) to do all that my iGO can natively do... and still no turn-by-turn soft buyable on the iPhone.
I want a real all in one, and neither the actual iPhone or the next one won't be a real one. My friends who own an iphone have all get a specific GPS, and well, everything's said...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's tue still. If you're in US, there is an application called G-Map, which on the surface looks quite decent, but nothing outside US yet. However, this is expected to change with Firmware 3.0. The reason why there was none in the past was because Apple did not allow any such application, thanks to their stupid policy. Respectable company like Tom Tom would of course refuse to release it into the "underground" cydia store. With the policy change by Apple, TomTom is expected there soon.
I'm all for having everything in one device too, and GPS has been a sore point for me. The other sore point is the fixed battery, but that I can accept because iPHone's battery life is not bad.
1, im sorry but your statment about everything MS produces are rubbish, is in fact rubbish, i cant comment what you do with your PC / Mobile but i rarely have system crashes, on my mobile i cant even remember the last time i was forced to do a hard reset, on my desktop im using one of the most stable OSs ive ever used and its BETA! I do agree it takes them time to produce the software and i do agree that in the past SOME of their projects are flakey but not all.
"2. Where is the basis that Android sucks?"
You miss the point of an OS here, if nothing good works on an OS NO ONE will use it, its that simple, If i cant use the programs i need then that OS is useless to me, it may have a place in the linux following groups who challenge everything MS and claim to be better than everything else but in the real world if i cant use what i want to use its useless. MS also has a massive software base including various distribution sites, some free some not, everything is cated for. Android looks no better than my WM device with Touch flo, its no quicker, i know this because i have both of them sitting in front of me.
Because something is more modern doesnt make it good, take the Pentium 4 over Pentium 3 as an example. but i agree android IS more customizable
"Android has a LOT on WM and WM has...virtually nothing on Android"
Really? a LOT is a big statement that i bet you cant quantify with factual information and not hand back subjective reviews and "feelings" about things.
"It looks ancient,"
The core OS does yes, but tell me, is android not a Shell over a command line? i believe it is, So technically the core OS on android looks crap too but thats just nit picking!
"it runs ancient"
that makes no sence, only and new programs work on it fine, quick and responsive so what makes an OS ancient?
3. "android has a "bunch of Hippies" style of following, they are not classy, they are not even that good"
- Gotta admit that you really lost me there.
Ah yes i was refering to Linux and its intresting cult of followers but i retract that statement as it was below the belt.
"4. Windows Mobile is in fact rather slow, even on good hardware with good drivers."
nope, it isnt to me, graphics wise its slow compared to hardware excelerated devices, whats bizzar is that the phone can still pump out ok graphics on its CPU and still multi task, if qualcomm released graphics drivers for many of the 7xxx based chipsets i think you will find a near perfect device. but even without that it works....just!
"5. Windows Mobile crashes all the time even fresh after a hard reset, no apps installed, on an official ROM (just like the desktop Windows!)"
I really cant comment, since WM2002 ive not had that on a multitude of different devices. and Windows doesnt do that either, perhaps the common denominator here is the user.
"6. iPhone has better syncing solutions that ActiveSync and Outlook."
quantify please?
"7. Just FYI to all reading this...I am a Windows user and have been for years (all my life). I am not an outsider looking in and criticizing Windows w/o due reason and experience. I recently installed OSX86 on my PC however and...it truly is really nice"
I too have used Linux, OSX and all the different versions of Windows and they have there places i do agree that in different markets different OS's suit different people. but tell me which one of those is the best for all markets all be it perhaps not as good as the other OS's designed for those markets?
"MS sucks. "
you lose all credibility with that statment attact a spacific product if you choose but to say Apple sucks or MS sucks is crazy and wrong.
"Bottom line, and there is really no avoiding it.
8. All OS's have pro's and cons. There are just as many if not more arguments against all your arguments for Windows Mobile. My point is simply that the new iPhone truly is a lot better than any Windows Mobile device running the latest WM 6.5."
You started off well there, but lost it at the end, PROVE to me that the new OS is better on the Iphone? without using speculation and subjective views an opinions.
I believe MS will be increasing the colour depth on the new devices but i doubt it will make any significate difference, except in its speed. what the WM based devices need is some new tech that uses resistive screens without the 70% (about that) loss of light, that in turn would increase battery life. Dont say capacitive screens, a stylus can be very useful, but definitely a combination of the two somehow.
there are 3 killers for me with the iphone
1. no gps (it has a chip but nothing other than gimmickey apps for it)
2. resolution too small
3. no multi tasking - if I can't listen to mp3's while driving on my bluetooth stereo whilst having TomTom tell me where to go its no good.
Now we know that the new iPhone is gonna ship with TomTom but unless they sort the other 2 issues I wont even be looking at it, let alone ditching my beloved HD.
lancemate said:
there are 3 killers for me with the iphone
1. no gps (it has a chip but nothing other than gimmickey apps for it)
2. resolution too small
3. no multi tasking - if I can't listen to mp3's while driving on my bluetooth stereo whilst having TomTom tell me where to go its no good.
Now we know that the new iPhone is gonna ship with TomTom but unless they sort the other 2 issues I wont even be looking at it, let alone ditching my beloved HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Lancemate,
How do we know that the new iPhone is gonna ship with Tom Tom? I must have missed that information somewhere.
I'm too disappointed with Steve Jobs for not providing multitasking. So, looks like we still have to jailbreak to get that.
HD's resolution is very nice. No doubt about it. Although vast majority of the applications (phone, weather, music player for example) would not really miss this. Web surfing is in my mind a leading exception, as it would be nice to be able to clearly read the font without zooming in. It is for me a compromise, although an acceptable one for myself. I guess one has to take everything into account (multitouch vs resistive, number of applications available, speed, smoothness, stability, user interface, etc) and decide for oneself if such a compromise is worth it.
its all over the internet mate and has been for a while
example
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._0_app_highlights_tomtom_gps_line_6_more.html
lancemate said:
its all over the internet mate and has been for a while
example
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._0_app_highlights_tomtom_gps_line_6_more.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm aware Tom Tom and Navigon will be available, but as separate purchase rather than being shipped with the phone. Guess I misunderstood what you said. Thanks anyway.
Okay here I am setting myself up to be flamed - you see I don't understand what the beef is with Windows Mobile 6.5? I know it is a bit of a gloss job and that there is room for improvement but what is so intrinsically wrong with it that so many people are screaming about it...is it so unusable, or unstable - I know it is not the Apple OS and that I have to say may have its upsides. But what is the big problem.
So go for it shout at me - call me ignorant - but if you can enlighten me please do.
I am about to get an HD2 and am looking forward to the whole experience.
Scott
It looks kinda ugly (not fingerfriendly, no animations), misses APIs for the hardware in modern devices and the UI controls provided by Visual studio are ugly as well, making software development for WM sometimes difficult.
That's it. The list of good things about WM is a lot longer.
All in all, there's nothing wrong with WM except for its reputation in the blogosphere.
It has its pros and cons like every other phone OS. None of them is perfect and iPhone OS or Android are not better than WM at all. They're just different, less powerful but easier to use.
freyberry said:
It looks kinda ugly (not fingerfriendly, no animations), misses APIs for the hardware in modern devices and the UI controls provided by Visual studio are ugly as well, making software development for WM sometimes difficult.
That's it. The list of good things about WM is a lot longer.
All in all, there's nothing wrong with WM except for its reputation in the blogosphere.
It has its pros and cons like every other phone OS. None of them is perfect and iPhone OS or Android are not better than WM at all. They're just different, less powerful but easier to use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and alot more popular. iPhone has the famous app store, with about 1000 quality games and 5000 quality apps.
I had no difficulties finding equivalents for every application when I switched away from the iPhone. WM has 30.000 applications as well.
But popularity is a problem.
I for one am so bored of the apple lovers saying get an Iphone over the hd2. If you want an iphone just get one, its a decent phone if thats what you want. WM6.5 isnt the most finger friendly OS but i think the big/only limitation for the hd2 is the fact it doesnt support our hardware very well in the kernel (which hasnt been updated since WM5 really), so to that end our device is only as slick as it is due to the massive overspec of the processor.
Yes WM7 will be better, but its certainly not a reason to wait and not buy a HD2. This forum has hundreds of threads in the leo section talking about iphone this and that, and frankly i am pretty sure i am not the only one sick of it.
I for one think WM6.5 on the HD2 is more than a decent OS, yes i dont interact with it directly that often but if i need to then i can at least get to the guts easily (file explorer/reg edit etc) which is way more difficult on other mobile platforms.
It isnt perfect but certianly isnt worth all of the chat thats going around atm.
I don't want an iphone and too am tired of the iphone zealots - I have been following the Leo since it was leaked it is the phone for me I just wanted to know what the big beef with WM 6.5 is.
I am currently using a BlackBerry Bold and it is a nice device but feel so limited beyond texting and emailing. But the HD2 that is a whole new ballgame.
Thanks for the feedback - I am looking forward to getting the phone in February.
Scott
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with 6.5 except its lack of finger friendlyness, which depending on what you use the phone for could be a positive or a negative. Its biggest drawback is the poor quality of the original phones gave it a bad press which certain tech websites have never let go.
Personally I have had WM phones since the Wizard and have used a number of different ones since. I also have a Hero and found Android very good but ultimately not as usable as WM6.1 or WM6.5. My current phone is a HD2 which beats the the Hero and the iPhone at virtually every everyday task it has been given. (even the Hero stood up very well against the iPhone).
As for apps, yet again the media seem to think the only way to get an app on your phone is through an app store - carefully ignoring the fact that WM has had apps since day 1, just not all available from one place.
borgqueenx said:
and alot more popular. iPhone has the famous app store, with about 1000 quality games and 5000 quality apps.
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FPMSL!!!!!!
Well, there might really be 6000 quality apps among those 110000.
That's 5.5%. If 20% of all WM applications are quality ones, then there's already more quality applications for WM than for the iPhone. Especially if you add PSX games that all work great on WM now
Don't take this too serious, I'm just having a bit of fun. There's lots of good applications for the iPhone, but I never missed anything when I switched (back) to WM.
While I have all of you to talk to - what is the best registry editor to get for my HD2? I also want to look at a task manager as well...
Any feedback much appreciated.
Scott
freyberry said:
Well, there might really be 6000 quality apps among those 110000.
That's 5.5%. If 20% of all WM applications are quality ones, then there's already more quality applications for WM than for the iPhone. Especially if you add PSX games that all work great on WM now
Don't take this too serious, I'm just having a bit of fun. There's lots of good applications for the iPhone, but I never missed anything when I switched (back) to WM.
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One thing I can not get about Iphone apps is fact they take normal app and call it something new and wonderful.
There is this app for iphone that splits the restaurant bill on to as many people as you want.
I thin on all other phones it is called a calculator and it can do so much more as well as is free.
Another example of stupid paid app is Ducati history app. Why pay I think £2.99 for it (BTW it still only works if you are online) when you can get the same at Ducati.com. Only reason I can think off is because Ducati site is flash based?!
UberScooter said:
While I have all of you to talk to - what is the best registry editor to get for my HD2? I also want to look at a task manager as well...
Any feedback much appreciated.
Scott
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Get resco explorer with regedit plugin. However I think full one you have to pay. For a free app there is PHM Registry editor:
http://freewareppc.com/utilities/phmregistryeditor.shtml
to edit registry of your winmo device via your laptop you will need active sync and CeRegeditor by mdSoft. It allows you to export keys you want and convert them in to cab installs so if you need to hard reset it is just click and go for all your registry tweaks.
FIRST: the intention of this post it not to flame. These is just my point of view and I would love to hear some other people’s point of view.
This is just an observation from a real cell phone junkie who is coming from WinMo and iPhone to android and is a bit disappointed.
It just feels like the Android platform is overrated and half baked. While it has its “Google apps” advantage, most of the other parts of it are seriously lacking.
Coming from an iPhone(which I hated because of apple’s dictatorship and because it feels like a dumbphone) and the HD2, which is a brilliant device with a very capable OS which has stability issues and lack of new useful apps development, I wanted to try something new with Android. It should have been the prefect mix between openness and development of new useful apps (which WinMo lacks). So far I have been nothing but disappointed.
Some of the issue I noticed and why I think Android is really overrated are:
- Very low end apps. Most of them are poorly designed and unstable. There are a few good apps but none from the major players.
- BUGGY apps!!! One of the reason WinMo was failing is because of cross device support for apps. Apps that would work on one device would not work on another because of different hardware chipsets. I was sure that Google would see this is a point of failure and will make sure this won’t happen with Android. WRONG: almost every app I downloaded has bugs and is not working properly with the N1 and if you just read the comments for the various apps you see the horror. So many people complain about FC’s and instability of the apps. This means that Google simply failed in this area and there is no real cross device support. Each app needs to be tweaked to work on each hardware set to get it right. This is going to be a huge point of failure for the platform.
- Crippled copy and paste. Seriously? You can’t copy and paste from everywhere in version 2.1??? didn’t they learn from apple?
- No built in Tethering. Again this is OS version 2.1 and there is no tethering option unless you root you phone.
- Feels sluggish at time: even on a 1Ghz processor the phone does feel sluggish at time (and yes I close my apps with task manager). Some say it is because the RAM was not fully utilized in this OS. Why have Google released a phone that suppose to have 512MB RAM with only half active? Didn’t they think it would cause bad experience?
- Very poor multimedia support: and I mean VERY poor. Even the built in YouTube Video player will not rescale the video to show on the entire screen if the video was not encoded specifically to the N1 resolution, not to mention other video apps who will NEVER show videos at full screen as they were designed for lower resolutions. There is really no way to watch DIVX or XVID and everything needs to be converted. There are dozens of media players on the market and NONE can do either tasks! And yxflash, the only player that can supposedly play DIVX is doing such a poor job it is a joke. WinMo has ONE player that beats all dozens on the android market. I read somewhere it isrelated to the SDK being very limited in Multimedia. I find it hard to believe that Google is trying to compete with apple witch such a poor Multimedia support. I even purchased OrbLive and the picture quality is extremely poor because they were forced to use the only codec that Android can support for streaming which is 3gp and has very poor quality.
- No big brand name apps: Skype, Sling and many other big brands are simply not there. I know you can use Fring as an alternative (or Nimbuzz) but both are very buggy and have delay when using skype calling. You also can’t turn off the screen when you use the VOIP apps as it is causing the sound to break.
- VPN: very poor support. I can’t get the connection to stay connected while it works just fine on the HD2 and iPhone. The latest software update from Google completely broke VPN support and now it won’t connect at all.
- There is no real way to backup all you apps AND settings of the apps unless you have rooted your phone. If you want to upgrade your ROM or change ROM’s you need to reinstall everything (unless you are rooted and then you can backup your apps settings as well). This is something that should be implemented out of the box. WinMo has exactly the same problem.
- Failure in the gaming area. There are maybe 20 good games on the Market that actually use OpenGL 3d. other games look like they are from the mid 90s. I was hoping to see better games on Android than on WinMo. I guess I was wrong here as well.
I wanted to like Android, I really did, and maybe it will get better with time, however currently it has exactly the issues as WinMo phones has (buggy apps mainly, some OS slowdowns ) and if Google is not going to address these issues they will find themselves in the same position as Microsoft is finding itself now.
For now I’ll have to go back using my HD2 and just wait until Android gets a little better and more usable for me. I just really don’t understand people hate WinMo so much if Android is not much better (at least from my consumer standpoint).
Thanks for reading.
Number one reason and the only one I need to hate WinMo is Internet Exploder. It's broken badly. They had better fix this in 7 or they are done. The fact that you have to use a third party browser to do anything useful is total BS.
I think for most people, who don't want to think to hard, Iphone OS is probably a better choice. The interface is dead simple and there are a ton of apps. Most people won't realize that they are being fenced in.
The majority of your rambling is about apps. I don't think anyone overrates Android's app catalog. Everyone knows it's much smaller than the iPhone's.
It's not overrated in the way that people tend to praise it, which is openness and customization.
I agree on IE but like the fact that you can chose various browsers.
App support is dreadful compared to the Iphone but you have to look at the sales figures in ITMS vs. Market; $ = incentive. Yes right now it's apples and oranges but when someone is researching what device to buy and what carrier to swear allegiance to for 2 years, there are certain variables considered.
Take a heavy facebook user. The iphone fbook app is solid. Yes it has issues, but compared to the android solution, there is no contest. The fact that you have to use m.facebook.com when linking from your notifications panel in android is quite unacceptable (just one of many issues people have brought up). Pandora on the iphone is also quite a bit better than on android.
I disagree in regards to your comment about the phone being snappy. I have my old iphone 3g and my nexus 1 sitting side by side and real world feel says that the n1 wins in performance.
For me there are two things I wish were present with the nexus one/androidOS that are present on the iphone.
1 - app support. That is targeting android.
2 - the keyboard. For some reason I can type far more accurately and with greater speed on the iphone than on my n1. Not a deal breaker at all
You bring up tethering. There is no native tethering on the iphone without jailbreaking or paying for an app (pdanet) for the official stateside carrier (att). Your nexus one has the ability to install pdanet and you can tether all you want at a small price. Of course, you can root your phone and suddenly this ask is satisfied; just like jailbreaking and updating your carrier file.
If you want to talk about setbacks; how about the lack of MMS for the first gen iphones while the 3g/3gs both have this. No reason whatsoever to not include the functionality in the 2g other than slow deprecation of support for the phone...that just sucks.
There are plenty of solid games in Market for your device. I had to watch a video "50 android games" to be made aware of quite a few of these tiles.
For me, nothing you wrote kept me from migrating back to android after spending a year with an iphone (g1->iphone->n1; the entire time I had the iphone I missed my g1) But I am not the target audience device manufs are going after...almost nobody here is.
All your points are valid and are what the atypical customer thinks about, cares about and bases their monetary decisions on.
Good post
deprecate said:
App support is dreadful compared to the Iphone but you have to look at the sales figures in ITMS vs. Market; $ = incentive. Yes right now it's apples and oranges but when someone is researching what device to buy and what carrier to swear allegiance to for 2 years, there are certain variables considered.
Take a heavy facebook user. The iphone fbook app is solid. Yes it has issues, but compared to the android solution, there is no contest. The fact that you have to use m.facebook.com when linking from your notifications panel in android is quite unacceptable (just one of many issues people have brought up). Pandora on the iphone is also quite a bit better than on android.
I disagree in regards to your comment about the phone being snappy. I have my old iphone 3g and my nexus 1 sitting side by side and real world feel says that the n1 wins in performance.
For me there are two things I wish were present with the nexus one/androidOS that are present on the iphone.
1 - app support. That is targeting android.
2 - the keyboard. For some reason I can type far more accurately and with greater speed on the iphone than on my n1. Not a deal breaker at all
You bring up tethering. There is no native tethering on the iphone without jailbreaking or paying for an app (pdanet) for the official stateside carrier (att). Your nexus one has the ability to install pdanet and you can tether all you want at a small price. Of course, you can root your phone and suddenly this ask is satisfied; just like jailbreaking and updating your carrier file.
If you want to talk about setbacks; how about the lack of MMS for the first gen iphones while the 3g/3gs both have this. No reason whatsoever to not include the functionality in the 2g other than slow deprecation of support for the phone...that just sucks.
There are plenty of solid games in Market for your device. I had to watch a video "50 android games" to be made aware of quite a few of these tiles.
For me, nothing you wrote kept me from migrating back to android after spending a year with an iphone (g1->iphone->n1; the entire time I had the iphone I missed my g1) But I am not the target audience device manufs are going after...almost nobody here is.
All your points are valid and are what the atypical customer thinks about, cares about and bases their monetary decisions on.
Good post
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Thanks for all the replies.
However please keep in mind that in my original post, i was hardly making any comparison to the iPhone and at the end of my post i stated that i am going back to the HD2 . The iPhone is the last platform i am going back to, even with all the apps. i Just cant keep with the Apple / Jailbreakers game and all the limitations.
You do have native tethering on the iPhone, only it is disabled because at&t does not want you to have it. in other countries it works out of the box. no Jailbreak needed.
I agree that market share = incentive for developers however i am a bit worried that with the current state of the SDK, we will see the same old issues with cross device support for apps, and this is exactly where WinMo failed and the iPhone won (because there is only one device to support (chipset wise), so far)
If only the apps that are in the market now would work better, my point of view will be much different.
I want to use Skype, OK there is no real skype app so i tried to use Fring...DELAY on the call. unusable. I tried to use Nimbuzz, it is better but you cant turn off the screen so the battery dies fast.
I want to watch a movie > need to convert.
I want to watch live TV > there is still not a single app that can actually do this. ORB's app is really bad at the current version.
I want to tether > need to root (i am ok with this) but wireless tether never connected to my laptop. unusable. Wired tether worked fine.
I did watch the 50 best games on Android Video and the are in par with WinMo's games and so far WinMo is giving better usability. but the OS is not so stable hehe...
I guess there is no perfect phone.
Overall is the lack of actual functionally is what killed it for me. I hope it will get better in the future and then i can give it another try
as you said, there is no perfect phone. but give it a little time, android is only a year old after all. i for one have little to no problems with FCs from any of the apps i'm using, so it also depends on what you like to do with your phone.
my main issue atm. is the lack of good bluetooth enabled voice dialing (and lack of any voice dialing at all for non-english users).
and the pet peeve would be the missing framework for the trackball colors.
other than that i'm really enjoiying the relative openess of the platform, and having cyanogen as a developer
Tether without root with PDAnet. This program works great.
Looks like the OP need's to have a read over yonder
There's also been a great deal of talk in the development forum regarding new openGL support in 2.0.
App space has been limited in android and thats a factor, but this is being resolved and we will start to see more 'pretty' applications, but I would argue that android has just as many useful and good applications as the iPhone.
The ONLY windows mobile device that I would trade my Nexus One for is an HD2. It'd be a tough decision though. My touch pro 2 was fun from a customization stand point because I seemed to flash a new rom at least once every couple of days. However, it was painful to use, it was slow, required frequent restarts, work-arounds galore, etc etc. Android may have some bugs, but I have far less trouble with day to day use with my Nexus than I did with my TP2. The hardware power of the HD2 would probably alleviate the thing that killed the TP2 for me and that was the annoying speed (or lack thereof).
Iphone OS is boring, but it works reliably. Safari mobile on my Ipod touch is a great browsing experience (nexus is better though, simply due to the power).
The only major problem I have with Android 2.1 on my nexus is its lack of full exchange support. However, if I really cared that much about it I would drop the $20 to get Touchdown and be done with it. Oh, and I would really love it if a full version of Epocrates made its way to android sometime soon.
This is of course for my uses, and in my experience. Therefore, I am just adding my opinion to the bunch...
Firstly, how can you say the N1 is laggy? Seriously? Especially compared to a WinMo device, and even the iPhone 3GS. The N1 is hands down the fastest smart phone I have ever used, whether it be my own personally owned smart phone, or one I was testing for work. Most actions are instant or near instant in their result, and the only time I find myself waiting at all is when data transfer from the network is involved, and it does that faster on my N1 than any other phone I have tried! Actually, I can load some websites faster than my computer, and I am not talking about sites that use flash either.
Secondly, yes a 1 year old OS platform does not have the same level of app support that a 4 year old platform has(iPhone/iTouch) or a decade old platform (WM). However, it is an open source platform that is growing quickly. While not all 15K apps are perfect for every device, this is true of the WM platform and the iPhone platform. There are plenty of great apps, that don't reqiure root.
Thirdly, the Android OS supports the same media playback functions as the iPhone OS... and actually can handle more in some regards. The N1 will have native flash support someday(hopefully very soon), where as Apple has picked a fight with Adobe, and likely never will have flash support. To say the Android OS, and the N1 falls short in multi-media compared to the iPhone is ignorant, to say the least. WM does support more formats, but at the same time that is a result of a OS in developement a lot longer than Android, as well the current Android OS can support Divx, et al, but companies like CorePlayer do not want to make an app until this support is in the SDK natively, and CorePlayer has pointed out they are working closely with Google, and it looks as though Android 2.5(Froyo).
Fourthly, as someone that sells cell phones for a living, the Android OS is the best smart phone OS for me to sell to consumers by a long ways. It is much more functional than the BB OS, yet maintains the ease of use. iPhone OS lacks most of the top smart phone functions, and WinMo is too slow and buggy. While 3rd party apps are not perfect, this is true of any platform, and at least with Android it will force close instead of freeze the phone. As well, the apps that are quality work very well and blow most other stuff out of the water, ie CameraFX. I have yet to have a customer complain that a free app wasn't working right... nor complain that the phones were buggy.
I was someone that came from winmo.
Android is much more polished than wimo, but it's barebones out of the box.
Winmo is much more packed with utilities out of the box, but lacks the polish of android.
That has alot to do with the timeframes of when these things derived. Android thrives on the "there's an app for that!" ecosystem.
Up until winmo (6.1?) there was no place to just get a quick app, so MS had to implement more things to give a better out of box experience. Too bad they lacked cleanliness.
Yes, Android has bugs and Yes, Market is poor compared to iPhone. But if you sum things up, I think Android wins. And Nexus wins as well, since I has the best hardware on the market today (or one of the best) 1Ghz CPU + AMOLED display + big resolution
Sorry, double post.
- There is no real way to backup all you apps AND settings of the apps unless you have rooted your phone. If you want to upgrade your ROM or change ROM’s you need to reinstall everything (unless you are rooted and then you can backup your apps settings as well). This is something that should be implemented out of the box. WinMo has exactly the same problem.
Give the market a closer look, and download MyBackup - it does indeed backup apps and settings, along with other things like bookmarks, contacts, the usual. This is the only point I could point out from your post without having to go into extensive detail ._.
As well, to add to my last post, there is multi-phone support with the apps and the Android OS... if this wasn't so, why would the Moto apps work on the Nexus One? While an app written for Android 1.0/1.5/1.6 might not work on 2.1 perfectly, this does not change the fact an app written with the 2.1 SDK will work on any phone running 2.1(actually, SDK 2.0+ will work with any 2.0+ phone, minus live wallpapers.)
But that is to be expected, just as an app written for iPhone OS 1.0 won't work properly with 3.1.3, or WM5.0 apps won't work with WM6.5 properly.
Isn't this a pointless debate.
It like like trying to debate good vs evil, butter vs margarine, pro-choice vs pro-life?
He seems to have come up with his own very logical, sound reasons why and why not android is over rated. There are countless arguments for both sides and I've read all 15 post of this. Android like the iPhone OS like Windows, like symbian all have their strong and weak points. No perfect phone OS out there. But rather whiny and complain of this and that maybe improve it, like some of the really great developers here which advances Android OS and make it great for all of us users.
In the end do I care if you move to Window mobile...not really. Hope you are happy. Move on. Have a nice life.
amen sir
this thread is only worthy of a one line reply. ...
Well... Having never used a WinMo device. I can't argue that side of things... I owned a Blackberry (NEVER again!!!!), and I own an iPod Touch. Sure, the iTouch isn't the phone, but they're certainly one in the same. My iTouch is jailbroken btw.
With that said, I've never owned a better overall device than the N1. Don't get me wrong, it has its quirks and issues. But man, this thing IS my Media Player, my GPS, my overall entertainment "finder" (Where/Places/Aloqa), Grocery Lists, Forum browser (I'd say I'm 50/50 with Phone and PC while surfing web and forums now).
Sure, the apps could use some work... But, with quality devices being placed on the market, the apps WILL follow. Realize that the main reason the apps market isn't bigger, is because of the strangle-hold that Apple currently has on the market. Many Devs have invested into Apple development and have customers there. It's hard to talk them into changing their ways. In time, they'll sure move over to Android though.
With that said, the apps I get... Work for me. Just the basics: Handcent, Meebo, Car Home, Where/Places, "OurGroceries", Mixzing (Still not my ideal choice, but it gets the job done for now... And yes, I've tried Meridian, nemoPlayer, Stock, and TuneWiki), "Listen", and so on.
Yes, I've deleted as many apps as I still have on my phone (Many more than listed above)... But I've stuck with some that get the job done. If I could ask for only 2 other apps, it'd be Mint.com and Audible.com... Otherwise, I can be content in knowing I have my ideal communication device, with some GPS goodness, and it plays through my car speakers wirelessly.
So no... I don't consider it overrated, but rather too young. It'll mature in time.