Database Users

New OS's in the future?

Everyone LOVES the iphone.
Even though this is a Windows Mobile forum, we all jump at the chance to have swish finger swipey things running on our phones!
Then when someone comes up with bull threads e.g - I FOUND A STRAY DOG WITH A CIRCUIT BOARD LINKED INTO ITS BRAIN RUNNING IPHONE OS AND PS3 CUSTOM SOFTWARE - etc
......everyone gets excited.
I think the Macishness is leaking into our sacred place and confusing our sensitive minds lol.
I am condeming but I am also running that S2U2 on me Ameo.
Doesnt do anything, but looks like iphone and people love it.
I have never really liked apple...............I found that it was for the girls and guys in our offices who have too much cash. Or people who are not really tech savy, and they are just following the fashion. Unless you started image manipulation before PC's caught up with the MACS and now you are stuck using them.
This has been bred into me from years on a Windows OS. I have seen Apple Macs as restricted fashionable PC's. BUT THINGS ARE CHANGING!
I love the swipey flowing BULLCropola as much as the next person.
I think this is where BIG THINGS things will start to happen for us Windows Mobile users, previously there has never been a huge deal of choice for us in regards to which OS we run on our devices. If we wanted full control of our hardware we needed Win OS. Now days, my Symbian Series 60 Nokia N95 (now hacked to newest firmware etc) is (IMHO) a better "touchless" environment than any Win Mo 6 Standard device I have seen (apart from the lack of querty)
I can do everything on this device that I used to do on my old Smartphone but much faster and easier.
The only things I need my win mo ameo for are for work really. I need VGA out, higher res screen (real VGA mode) so I can use monitor properly. I need USB host for mouse and keyboard and that is it really. When it comes to surfing the net, its obviously much nicer to have a large screen but in terms of the ~OS's ability to handle my usage, Symbian, Apple LG etc are really doing a good job.
For the first time in YEARS and YEARS! I am now looking at other OS's for my next device as well as Win Mo 6/7/8 etc.
My prediction?
In a few years, the XDA brand in this amazing forums name will be a throw back to the past. In the same way that it highlights O2's XDA brand as the devices we all had first, in the future it will highlight the fact that we all started off with only 1 OS - Microsfot Pocket PC 2000!
I wonder how many of us are using/carrying more than 1 device now that runs a different OS? Sony's Nokia's LG's etc......
I am sure there has been a poll recently.........

Well! You are expressing your view on behalf of everyone- which seems inappropriate.
I hate iphone- it's a layman's device as is nokia(Symbain OS).
Programmatically & by all means I personally feel WM's versatility to be the best OS.

Nokia's at not that bad. However most of them are marketed to a different market so they are not really the best to compare.
The Iphone is a piece of kit for fashionistas who are more interested in a phone that looks good rather than anything else. It's general backward technology is lame. Edge? Really? Why?
My almost 3 year old Hermes has more tech in it than the 1 year old --aside perhaps the screen. And its software is a current as the Iphone and can be had for less. Go figure.
And let's not even get into third party apps....
So I guess your guess is more like a rant.

Android seems like a good future platform, you'd have the moddability of WM with the end user experience of in iPhone. Perfect!

duplicate post

Meh
It seems to me that All the Os's are heading in the same direction, technologically and socially.
Camera's
Storage
Fast data connections
Good Screen and Speakers
Input ability.
I find that using my N95 reminds me of my first smartphone.
I am a member of www.symbian-freak.co.uk and the community there reminds me of Win mobile like 8 years ago.
There is a programming language for the S60 called Python which seems very popular and easy to work with, Nokia has a online application signing at present. Due to the rapidly growing number of users I feel that app signing will change in the future for them. At present I have to personally sign any application that I want to run that is not a commercial release.
Now this reminds me of my first SPV canary when we had to disable the certificate checking to allow unauthorised access. It is really REALLY similar, as is the huge list of applications that grows daily, just like when I used to spend all my time here and on www.modaco.com years ago.
Maybe my comparison to the Iphone was a bad one, and I do apologise for making a statement like "everyone loves Iphone" but its the feedback I get from anyone who plays with Safari on the touch or the iphone, no one can say it is hard to use or aggrevating, especially when you compare the same mobile experience with IE or Opera on Mobile 5 or 6.
Web browsing on my V21. N95 is also phenomenal and has full flash lite 3 support.
All the OS's have different stregnths and weaknesses.
I would NEVER have purchased a NOKIA device 2 years ago. I would have laughed.
However, the S60 V3 platform is BIG there are HUGE numbers of users all hacking and developing just like us here. It is now hacked and modable (all security has been disabled), V4 will be a touch screen environment and all the coders and users will be moving over to these new devices and taking experience with them.
I have apps that do many things that maybe the majority of windows mobile users would not believe. I would not have believed it my self really. I have all the streaming apps that I need, I got core player which is as good as if not better than the win mo flavor I got all the Wifi apps, games, god knows what else. There are so many people developing for the devices.
Its the same for the Iphone. Saying that it is a "laymans" device and that it is not as versatile is not the experience that I have had. Once the device is Jailbroken there are many many many apps available and the list is growing every day. There are Multitudes developing and RE'ing the OS...
I think that a lot of the windows mobile users are not aware of the versatility of other OS's and what people are doing right now.
Yeah, I wouldnt buy one(Iphone) for £300 and take on a contract BUT many people would not have bought an original Windows Smartphone running 2000 for probably the same price!
The Iphone is an amazing bit of tech. It is so thin, so light, the battery is great and the screen is great. Yeah, It has EDGE but how long till 3/4g iphones?
I dont think its prudent to compare the tech as it has been packed so well that surely the technology is heading where Win mobile devices are?
I now use my Nokia FAR more than my Ameo but there are things that I have to do on my ameo as the N95 wont do Host USB etc.
As our communities grow larger from year to year, and as more markets become open to these devices we are going to have SO many people "reverse engineering" and "hacking"
I am guessing that there will be more and more killer apps, maybe we will be switching Os's to run these?
Maybe the Hard core users and exploiters will be moving between these devices and moving the OS's between the devices.
Just like "AKSD" says, having modability is very important.
Iphone has thousands of users added to its list every day. The user base is big and growing.
I suppose I was thinking in Cukoo land, expecting things to converge to the point that people are swapping OS's etc especially as Apple etc would not be happy for people to go from device to device but....lol I had a vision....
thinking again, with the open flavor google android......maybe it will be slightly different, maybe different groups of users and developers will all be modding android for their platorms
Just my thoughts.....

Its not so much the operating system on the iphone that is impressive. I happen to have a ipod touch which basically is the same as the iphone but without the phone features. The OS on the iphone is plain and rather boring. What I can do with the HTC touch is worlds more than what most people can do with their iphones. What is impressive with the iphone is the screen. The screen size is bigger than most PDA phones, the ease of use that comes with the screen is impressive. To this day, not one other PDA or phone manufacture has even thought of using the iphone screen on Windows mobile phone. I actually enjoy browsing the net on my ipod touch alot more than any browser I have installed on the Touch (eg. Skyfire, Opera, Piscel, or PIE). Why? Because the screen and the way it flows on the ipod or iphone. Not to mention the fact that the screen happens to be about and inch and a half bigger than most Windows mobile phones. Apple didnt really make a operating system that was better but rather put an operating system on a phone that can handle operations better. I have many friends with iphones that are hacked and their third party software is slowly catching up no where near what WM has. You have to start with the hardware first.

Hope Someone Can Answer This : Why?

an iPod Touch/iPhone can play 3d games, utilise the g-sensor and run smoothly - for example racing games. Tilt the iPhone, the car turns.
Why can't our phones run these sort of games? Or is it just the case they haven't yet been produced?
From what I'm aware a Diamond is more powerful than an iPhone therefore these games "shouldn't" be a problem?
Shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, just kinda thought there should be iPhone-esque software for these phones now.

I am right with you, i keep thinking the same thing.

Because Apple has crazy fanboys and they provided a simple infrastructure to facilitate payment and downloading (appstore). They also gimped the iphone out of the box so as to pretty much require people to sign up for the appstore if they actually want to use it, ensuring that they have the user base they need for it.
Now the iphone has several million users - how many Diamonds do you think are sold? Windows mobile itself is bigger, but the capabilities of the phones running it vary too much that profiting from making advanced games is as feasible.

I have wondered about this as well. I think the problem is 3 fold
Firstly, the Diamond has 3d and graphics performance issues for sure. Sometimes my Diamond will slow down terribly when running some simple animations. I have read that HTC are notorious for providing poor graphics drivers and this could be part of the reason.
Secondly, I actually dont think Windows Mobile is capable of doing what the iPhone UI is capable of in terms of interactive gaming.
Thirdly, Apple provide your at home developers a great business model to go out and develop great games and apps for the phone. Plus with the Appstore they know that if they develop something good, people will see it - there is only one place to get apps from - and the developer will make money.
For me, the iPhone is not the right phone, but I would love Windows Mobile and HTC to be able to do what the iPhone and Apple can do.

The iPhone has v-sync, so the 3d graphics are drawn smoothly with no tearing and sadly win mo just does not. At least that is what my mate said who is a games developer. The power is there but you just can't get it to the wheels! This just makes it fundamentally unappealing to a lot of developers.

yeah totally agree, i love the diamond, but i've been using windows mobile for years now, and each new model HAS generally got better and better. however the iPhone is just something else.. for people who aren't nerds and into mucking around iwth their phone etc, i could never recommend a windows mobile over an iPhone. its just so much more polished compared to the diamond.
i'm an AMD fan too, godamnit why do i always have to back the underdog

Yes, even though i have a diamond and have had great fun tweaking it, i still can't help but envy the iPhone users for their graphically superior games and video playback prowess .
Another explanation would be that iPhone games are developed solely for... u guessed it, iPhones! ...whereas WinMo games have to be developed to run across many different devices, with (or lack of) accelerometers, touch screens etc. Therefore, to achieve this interoperability / compatibility across the many different devices, compromises have to be made.
That said, there are still gd games for our beloved devices, my favourite being PDAMill, whom develop aesthetically pleasing games with intuitive controls, and they're cheap too.

Nudge.
So all in all, will it become possible? And what's vsync? Portable to diamonds?

I think V sync is something to do with the way images are drawn to the screen, and it is just not implemented in win mo, I don't know if it could be written into the drivers or of it is a hardware thing, but then I don't actually have a clue what I'm talking about! Can anyone confirm this?

vsync actually makes bad performance even worse since it forces the back buffer to wait until right after a screen refresh before it copies its data to the frame buffer.
it's great if the device is capable of rendering an FPS that is higher than the refresh rate, but in the diamond case it's just another fps thief

if you want games like iphone get an ipod touch. The diamond never advertised gaming as a capability. Think of it this way: The iphone is like a mac with mediocre hardware but also comes with a mid range video card. The diamond/touch pro are like PC's with raging motherboard/cpu/ram combo, but bottom entry level video card. You can get a lot done with the PC, but the fun factor lies in the mac.
Go buy virtual pool mobile, it runs great and it's very fun. Its the best pool video game ive ever seen actually.

Simple reason
The reason to me is simple: Apple cares about user experience. Just look at win mobile contacts, or explorer. Do you think this software is made for 2008-2009 hardware? Now look at iphone's ones... Seriously, Microsoft has the power to make good things for mobile users, but they released win mo 6.1 one year ago, which is mainly the same OS that existed in 2003.
Silly we when we buy pocketpc running on windows mobile.

Just to revive a dead thread for quite a good reason..
I've seen a few videos on Youtube and also a few write ups on the wonderful Tinterweb in relation to Windows Mobile devices running and successfully playing iPhone games through emulation.
Is this just simple hear-say or fake ? I've been thinking for a long time about focusing simply on making the graphical capabilities of the diamond better through customising the graphics drivers. That's the main flaw for me.
According to a few posts the graphics card has 64MB dedicated memory.. is this right?
If so, these things SHOULD be capable of running bloody good games but the drivers are just nowhere near good enough. I did hear about changing to ATI drivers - is this right? If so, where can I find the info on this cause I would like to maybe bash at hybrid-combining the drivers and modifying them a bit as to allow maybe a bit more fluid graphics. If you check one of my other posts on the Diamond, I've been complaining about split-graphics. It's really getting on my nerves as I'd rather just see a full picture move around my screen fluidly. None of this "split it up" rubbish.
Cheers

Driver dev
This seems to be a good thread with most/all of the available drivers posted.

well I have been enjoying copy + paste and fully working GPS on my Diamond ever since
now why hasn't Apple offered this so far?
I guess each company chooses their own battles

glumetu said:
well I have been enjoying copy + paste and fully working GPS on my Diamond ever since
now why hasn't Apple offered this so far?
I guess each company chooses their own battles
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hrrm.. In the new 3.0 SDK update for iPhone 3G and iPod Touch which will be released soon there is copy and paste + redo.. in a very stylish and functional way.
And there will be mms + almost every single function that the iPhone was lacking before + some more.. many, many new stuff for improved gaming, new OS improvements etc.
I watched the presentation on the apple website..

Shoddy_me said:
Hrrm.. In the new 3.0 SDK update for iPhone 3G and iPod Touch which will be released soon there is copy and paste + redo.. in a very stylish and functional way.
And there will be mms + almost every single function that the iPhone was lacking before + some more.. many, many new stuff for improved gaming, new OS improvements etc.
I watched the presentation on the apple website..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stuff that should have been released last year. The only reason Apple is releasing it when they are is because people's 2 year contracts are starting to expire, and Apple wants to try and persuade them from leaving by finally giving them features they've been demanding from day 1.
Honestly, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I knew Apple would do that.

Heres my question:
Smart phones and windows mobile operating system have been around for something like, oh, 15 years now. Why is it some EMO company like Apple releases a phone (badly I might add) and it becomes THE Benchmark for mobile devices? Its just purely unbelievable to me that so many people obsess over "well the iphone can do this, and it can do that.. I want my ______ to do what the iphone does..." If you like the turd and all its glory so much, why don't you just buy one and get it over with??

the iphone is so easy to use, thats why so many people bought one. when everyone has something, it becomes the norm to judge other things by. think of the model t from ford

Model T?
Confused.com. Is that the foreign (for me) Focus? lol
Anyways, I've looked about and the ATI drivers have given me the power boost I'm happy with. However - My images are still split on the screen.
Still trying to get this fixed...

My iPhone experience

I am the proud owner of a HTC touch HD phone, and a very happy owner too. I got it just before Christmas, and it is currently running on Duttys rom, 2.6. All in all my best phone so far.
As many, I have always looked upon the iPhone as one of the absolute best phones ever made, in my opinion it more or less revolutionized how we look upon a phone’s capabilities. However, since I have never had an iPhone, I found it hard to argument for or against it. Therefore I have bought one (used), which will arrive by mail within the next few days. When I get it, I will use it for a month and keep posting here how it goes and how it performs compared to the touch HD. Why do I do this? Because I’m curious, and because I want to see what all the hype is about, and most of all, i hate the fact that everyone is *****ing about which product is the best, but only a few has actually had and used the two phones for a longer period of time.
So far I bought the phone (iPhone 3g), and I am waiting for it to arrive. I must say the wait is long I have downloaded iTunes, so all I’m waiting for right now, is the phone itself.
Besides the normal things you do with a phone (calling, sms), I daily use my touch HD for web browsing, email correspondence and video and music. All of which performs perfectly (thank you coreplayer ). So this is what I plan to use the iPhone for, since touch HD is a windows mobile phone, I rely upon activesync to take care of my outlook contacts and calendar notes, we’ll see how well iTunes does this.
I also like the fact that it is so easy to get what you want with windows mobile, mostly through you guys here at xda.
When the phone arrives I’ll post my first experiences.
Update: 15-4-2009
It'll arrive tomorrow. Thanks for all the replys
Update 17-4-2009
First impressions
So i’ve used the phone for all in all 5-6 hours so far, so I can only tell you about my first impressions. I had some problems getting my music from my pc to the phone, it turned out that you have to enable music synchronization in itunes, in order to get anything transferred to the phone. First thing I did was to transfer my music through explorer (drag and drop), more or less the exact same way as with touch hd, this isn’t allowed, so I had to go through itunes, convert all my music, find out how to get it from itunes to the phone, before I could listen to music. In all in all much more difficult than I had believed, but now I know how it works, so hopefully this won’t be an issue in the future. I can see the problem for those who has many more songs than I had on my laptop, it’s takes a long time to convert to the itunes format, so this would be a major drawback. Why can’t I just put my mp3’s directly on the phone?
This being said, I really like the flow on the phone, the framerate compared to touch hd, is better, giving a better feel. However, I’ve been a bit annoyed by the sensitivity of the screen; it probably takes some getting used to.
Finally, when I used the phone this morning in my way to work, I had some issues with the 3G connection. My touch hd has no problems what so ever when I am using to surf and check mails and so on, the iphone used 3G for 3 minutes, and then I found myself browsing using edge, which is in my opinion is not an option. This is something that will be an annoyance if it keeps up (I’m hoping it was a onetime only).
As for the browsing itself, iphone surpasses the touch hd. Opera is simply to slow compared to safari, but if I can’t get a proper connection, there really is no choice.
One thing that really impressed though was the app store. All though you have to put in your credit card information in order to create an account, it is really easy to browse through all the apps, find what you like and install it. And there really are many different and funny apps, which all in all lifts the overall user value.
I’ll return in next week with more views. Thanks for all the responses
04-05-2009
The first many days.
Hey, sorry for the delay. Been busy at work, but finally found some time to write some more. I have had and used the phone for quite some time by now, it performs as expected. All though I begin to see the small bugs, which most people forget to mention when recommending the iphone. I read somewhere that the iPhone simply “just works”. That is not entirely true, yes I have never had a smartphone that performs as well as the iPhone, it has the least amounts of crashes and so on. However, to say that it simply works, is wrong. When I browse the web, safari hangs on every load, so you have to wait for the entire page to load until you start navigating. Furthermore the video player used in safari has a tendency to hang a lot when you are viewing a longer video, and especially if wifi is turned on. But still, the browser is the best mobile browser so far. Opera hangs/stalls/dies a lot too, and of the two browsers, I prefer safari. There’s still a long way to go until web browsing on the mobile is perfect.
The phone itself has rebooted three times, one time in a game and the two other times it just stalled and went black. Odd… Again if I compare to touch hd, it is more or less the same. My touch hd also died a lot of times, and the one thing that annoyed me most on a windows mobile device, is the fact that the memory isn’t flushed correctly. To many times you have to do a hard reboot, in order to get the memory cleared and to get good performance again.
I mentioned the connection problems earlier, or the lack of connection… Well it hasn’t improved, when you are traveling, the phone looses connection so many times it’s a major problem. Sometimes safari stops working when the connection is lost. Damn, that annoys me… So why don’t you just use wifi? Because with wifi turned on, the battery is used up in no time at all. This brings me to the next issue: The battery. I have to charge the phone one time every day, even with wifi turned off. “Then you use the phone a lot” you might say, and the answer would be: “yes I do, but that’s what the iphone is all about…”. If you don’t use the iphone for all the things that are so nice on the phone, why use it at all. I listen to music, surf the web, check emails, and play games on it daily. And this results in a charge a day. So all in all, the battery performance is poor. Furthermore if you are playing a game, and receive a phonecall, the game is shut down, without save, stupid…
This brings me to the app store, this is the one thing that makes me praise the iPhone. Yes we have the same on windows mobile, but not so approachable and comprehensive. Installing a game or a program could be much much easier on winmo. There is only one big flaw in the app store, if you are connected through 3G, there is a max on 10 mb per download. So if you find a game that’s larger than 10 mb, you have to wait to download it. Why??? 10 mb on 3g shouldn’t be a problem… By the way, you gotta love the facebook app… All though you can’t connect a contact to its facebook profile, it’s still a nice app
The GPS is not entirely accurate, but still usable. I won’t say that much about the gps since I don’t use it allot. And google maps is more or less the same as on touch hd.
The last thing: I saw many movies on touch HD. I have ripped many of my dvd’s and converted them to divx. On touch hd you just transfer the movie to the phone and you can see it. On iphone I have to convert it to some stupid format in order to see it. I hate having movies in so many different formats, and hate to rely upon itunes.
I’ll write a new post in the near future, and as for the guy who commented on my description on to much sensitivity: Sorry, but that’s just my experience of the phone 

Samoht2003 said:
I am the proud owner of a HTC touch HD phone, and a very happy owner too. I got it just before Christmas, and it is currently running on Duttys rom, 2.6. All in all my best phone so far.
As many, I have always looked upon the iPhone as one of the absolute best phones ever made, in my opinion it more or less revolutionized how we look upon a phone’s capabilities. However, since I have never had an iPhone, I found it hard to argument for or against it. Therefore I have bought one (used), which will arrive by mail within the next few days. When I get it, I will use it for a month and keep posting here how it goes and how it performs compared to the touch HD. Why do I do this? Because I’m curious, and because I want to see what all the hype is about, and most of all, i hate the fact that everyone is *****ing about which product is the best, but only a few has actually had and used the two phones for a longer period of time.
So far I bought the phone (iPhone 3g), and I am waiting for it to arrive. I must say the wait is long I have downloaded iTunes, so all I’m waiting for right now, is the phone itself.
Besides the normal things you do with a phone (calling, sms), I daily use my touch HD for web browsing, email correspondence and video and music. All of which performs perfectly (thank you coreplayer ). So this is what I plan to use the iPhone for, since touch HD is a windows mobile phone, I rely upon activesync to take care of my outlook contacts and calendar notes, we’ll see how well iTunes does this.
I also like the fact that it is so easy to get what you want with windows mobile, mostly through you guys here at xda.
When the phone arrives I’ll post my first experiences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking forward to hear your experinces

Yep look forward to it!
Not sure it was revolutionary... the LG Prada was a full touch screen phone before the iPhone.. Apple just packaged it well... Steve jobs could box a turd and sell it. pretty much like Apples claim on the mouse! That was actually Xerox's baby!

Looking forward to your experience and an honest review / comparison between the 2!

I actually have both (HTC Touch HD and iPhone 3g), too

Yeah, waiting to see your comments...

We are talking about Apples & Oranges here!!! Arent we?

the real great things on the iphone are aps! they are realy cool, good looking, running smooth... but only one at a time with a verry bad cam and no mms... (yet )
if it had a better cam, MMS (soon) eand a real GPS (and GPS software) i would defintly forget my HD!

way to go pal, will be glad to read your reviews.

bouyaka said:
the real great things on the iphone are aps! they are realy cool, good looking, running smooth... but only one at a time with a verry bad cam and no mms... (yet )
if it had a better cam, MMS (soon) eand a real GPS (and GPS software) i would defintly forget my HD!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my.
Jesus phone has a lot of shortcomings, but MMS? Who cares? It's the silliest thing since plastic toothpick. Why do you want to pay your operator for this surrogate email?
And do you really consider HD's camera usable?

daraj said:
We are talking about Apples & Oranges here!!! Arent we?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really.... I'll explain...
I've just sold my iPhone 3G and bought a HD. My reasons were...
1) I get bored and I had the iPhone since last July and fancied a change
2) I wanted expandable memory
3) I think the iPhone is looking dated now. Controversial I'm sure...
4) I now want stereo Bluetooth streaming for a new iO Play car kit I have had fitted
I used to change phones far too often and had 13 in a year once, but the iPhone is the longest serving handset I've had for a while. Despite not being bleeding edge when it comes to the specification, the way you interact with it, the simplicity, the fluidity and the Apple ecosystem all added up to make it a revolutionary phone. There is a reason why every new touch-screen phone is an iPhone killer.
The email client is superb, web browsing superb and media playback superb. And the text inputs auto-correction is very intelligent and doesn't just look out for spelling mistakes, but patterns in typing which it relates to possible words.
The App store is great, but getting full of rubbish making the genuinely useful stuff harder to find. Rumours are there will be a premier store soon. The O2 contracts are great, as the free data and free WiFi access are superbly implemented, switching between seamlessly. And once you've authenticated with the free WiFi once that's all you ever have to do. I could walk into a Starbucks, McDonalds, Costa, Hotel, Airport etc etc and it would connect to the WiFi before I even realised I was in a hotspot.
But it's not the Jesus phone everyone seems to think. And I hate, really, really hate the fan-boy love affair some people have with it... to the point I was embarrassed by it sometimes.
"No, I don't want to talk to you about your iPhone, stranger...."
The limitations in the iPhone are 75% software based, most of which will be corrected in version 3 of the software. Things like additional Bluetooth profiles, landscape text input in all apps, MMS, tethering etc will be welcome additions.
And that's one of the things that bothered me. These are simple things that really should be included as standard.
Things like the poor camera didn't bother me. I mean, Sony Ericsson have been putting rubbish cameras in phones they didn't market as imaging devices for years. If the camera is the main focus, there are much better options (like buying a camera).
The lack of expandable memory is a big deal for a multimedia phone though. I can understand the marketing / product reasons behind it, but even that seems to contradict the 'one device to do everything' approach Apple take with this.
Now to go back to my original point, Apples Vs Oranges, the HD and the iPhone aren't that different. Both have huge strengths, both have huge weaknesses, both have massive amounts in common. The thing that differs between them is down to the person buying it. What do you want from a phone....?
Out of the box usability and slickness? iPhone.
Endless tinkering, customisation and free reign of what you do with your phone? Touch HD
But both have the capability of matching the other in every single aspect. There is pretty much nothing that you can do with one that you can't with the other. Exactly the same can be said for Windows PC operating systems Vs Apple Mac OS X. Funnily enough, most of what I have said above can be applied in some way to that argument too.
So, the other downsides to the iPhone.... (some of this is entirely personal opinion).
Text input needs work in it's current form. The keys are just too small. This is made up by the excellent auto-correction, but it's still poor. And you can't add in new keyboards without jailbreaking, which brings me to..
Restrictive approach to third party applications. Apples closed-door approach has no benefits. I originally thought it would be good as it would ensure reliability and stability, but there are some terribly shaky applications in the App Store. I see no benefit in this for consumers and the only way around involves invalidating your warranty.
Hardware restrictions - No expandable memory, as above. Screen size Vs chassis size and screen resolution are falling behind the competition. Poor build quality is another factor that's not uncommon either.
If you are the kind of person who enjoys Windows Mobile, I predict you will get frustrated with the iPhones shortfalls and will be jailbreaking it within a day.

Robster83 said:
Not really.... I'll explain...
I've just sold my iPhone 3G and bought a HD. My reasons were...
1) I get bored and I had the iPhone since last July and fancied a change
2) I wanted expandable memory
3) I think the iPhone is looking dated now. Controversial I'm sure...
4) I now want stereo Bluetooth streaming for a new iO Play car kit I have had fitted
I used to change phones far too often and had 13 in a year once, but the iPhone is the longest serving handset I've had for a while. Despite not being bleeding edge when it comes to the specification, the way you interact with it, the simplicity, the fluidity and the Apple ecosystem all added up to make it a revolutionary phone. There is a reason why every new touch-screen phone is an iPhone killer.
The email client is superb, web browsing superb and media playback superb. And the text inputs auto-correction is very intelligent and doesn't just look out for spelling mistakes, but patterns in typing which it relates to possible words.
The App store is great, but getting full of rubbish making the genuinely useful stuff harder to find. Rumours are there will be a premier store soon. The O2 contracts are great, as the free data and free WiFi access are superbly implemented, switching between seamlessly. And once you've authenticated with the free WiFi once that's all you ever have to do. I could walk into a Starbucks, McDonalds, Costa, Hotel, Airport etc etc and it would connect to the WiFi before I even realised I was in a hotspot.
But it's not the Jesus phone everyone seems to think. And I hate, really, really hate the fan-boy love affair some people have with it... to the point I was embarrassed by it sometimes.
"No, I don't want to talk to you about your iPhone, stranger...."
The limitations in the iPhone are 75% software based, most of which will be corrected in version 3 of the software. Things like additional Bluetooth profiles, landscape text input in all apps, MMS, tethering etc will be welcome additions.
And that's one of the things that bothered me. These are simple things that really should be included as standard.
Things like the poor camera didn't bother me. I mean, Sony Ericsson have been putting rubbish cameras in phones they didn't market as imaging devices for years. If the camera is the main focus, there are much better options (like buying a camera).
The lack of expandable memory is a big deal for a multimedia phone though. I can understand the marketing / product reasons behind it, but even that seems to contradict the 'one device to do everything' approach Apple take with this.
Now to go back to my original point, Apples Vs Oranges, the HD and the iPhone aren't that different. Both have huge strengths, both have huge weaknesses, both have massive amounts in common. The thing that differs between them is down to the person buying it. What do you want from a phone....?
Out of the box usability and slickness? iPhone.
Endless tinkering, customisation and free reign of what you do with your phone? Touch HD
But both have the capability of matching the other in every single aspect. There is pretty much nothing that you can do with one that you can't with the other. Exactly the same can be said for Windows PC operating systems Vs Apple Mac OS X. Funnily enough, most of what I have said above can be applied in some way to that argument too.
So, the other downsides to the iPhone.... (some of this is entirely personal opinion).
Text input needs work in it's current form. The keys are just too small. This is made up by the excellent auto-correction, but it's still poor. And you can't add in new keyboards without jailbreaking, which brings me to..
Restrictive approach to third party applications. Apples closed-door approach has no benefits. I originally thought it would be good as it would ensure reliability and stability, but there are some terribly shaky applications in the App Store. I see no benefit in this for consumers and the only way around involves invalidating your warranty.
Hardware restrictions - No expandable memory, as above. Screen size Vs chassis size and screen resolution are falling behind the competition. Poor build quality is another factor that's not uncommon either.
If you are the kind of person who enjoys Windows Mobile, I predict you will get frustrated with the iPhones shortfalls and will be jailbreaking it within a day.
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Click to collapse
What I meant by that is the fact the HD is highly customizable to the bones, heck you can even run an Android OS on it. Iphone is a very closed OS with very little tweaks allowed by Apple ( Not talking about Jailbreaking) From the usability to the screen to the memory to the GPS vs A-GPS.. from the camera to almost everything in both phones are different. I consider the Iphone a weekend phone While the HD is a very business oriented phone that gets the job done and good.
Not sure If I can really say they are very similar. Just my 2 cents

daraj said:
What I meant by that is the fact the HD is highly customizable to the bones, heck you can even run an Android OS on it. Iphone is a very closed OS with very little tweaks allowed by Apple ( Not talking about Jailbreaking) From the usability to the screen to the memory to the GPS vs A-GPS.. from the camera to almost everything in both phones are different. I consider the Iphone a weekend phone While the HD is a very business oriented phone that gets the job done and good.
Not sure If I can really say they are very similar. Just my 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fair enough. But when you sit the two side-by-side and ask them to do the same task, there isn't much difference. If you think about what you do with your phone, I'd bet the HD does things in a very similar way to the iPhone. There are only so many ways to construct a text message, make a call or browse the internet on a touch screen mobile
The one big thing I didn't mention that you have just reminded me of, is the touch screen. The capacitive screen on the iPhone is much more responsive in use.

Robster83 said:
That's fair enough. But when you sit the two side-by-side and ask them to do the same task, there isn't much difference. If you think about what you do with your phone, I'd bet the HD does things in a very similar way to the iPhone. There are only so many ways to construct a text message, make a call or browse the internet on a touch screen mobile
The one big thing I didn't mention that you have just reminded me of, is the touch screen. The capacitive screen on the iPhone is much more responsive in use.
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Click to collapse
Yup. WVGA on HD and VGA on Iphone ( Not sure if its even VGA)

pretty much it boils down to what you do with it. I have both devices. I use the HD and the iphone sits on the desk. I am an admin at my company and we are windows based the windows mobile device it the best phone for us. While I like the Iphone it is not praticle for me to use. I hav not found any thing that I do on the iphone that I gave not been able to find an app that works on the hd doing the same or better. I really like being able to change the rom on my phone and customise it. Can't really do that with the iphone. And I think the display on the HD is much better.

daraj said:
Yup. WVGA on HD and VGA on Iphone ( Not sure if its even VGA)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Capacitive Vs Resistive is a bigger aspect than the resolution which, I agree, the iPhone falls short of. It is HVGA (320x480).

You have to be crazy to think that the iphone hasnt changed the mobile industry. It is an amazingly capable, intuitive and beautiful device to boot compared to these piece of lard htc OS's (the stock ones).
I owned about 15 HTC/Winmo devices starting with the SPV c500 and culminating in the Diamond as soon as it came out and got an iphone 3g at around the same time. None of the roms could come close to the intrinsic slickness, speed and support for the iphone, I jailbroke it, and was blown away and it became my primary device. However the iphone is currently mediacentric and not a buisness/professional phone and I needed an OQO UMPC to carry around as well but it doesnt claim to be anything else in fairness.
I have been quite impressed by the cooked Win 6.5 roms and skyfire recently though, and I am going to buy the HTC Touch Pro2 when it comes out as I need to use programs like word with a built in keyboard and tv out facility and perhaps retire my UMPC/laptops. This forum is also a great feature in choosing a HTC phone for customisation.
And for people who say the iphone doesnt have microsd, poor camera etc... How many crippled HTC devices have we seen? The iphone has been in a class of its own untill recent catch up devices.

imperiallight said:
And for people who say the iphone doesnt have microsd, poor camera etc... How many crippled HTC devices have we seen? The iphone has been in a class of its own untill recent catch up devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expandability is (in my opinion) essential for any electronic devices. I have an 8GB card in my HD now, and I plan on upgrading to a 32GB soon by simply inserting a memory card. iPhone...can't do that. You have to buy a new phone to do so. I also have a spare battery which I can swap out when I am on the road and can't charge my phone...like camping perhaps. Iphone...can't. I like to copy and paste text from one program to another (multitasking). iPhone...can't. The HD 5MP camera takes great pictures which can be geo tagged with great accuracy. iPhone (until v2.0 comes out)...can't. Sure, there are some HD's out there that are crippled or bricked. Why? Because people that have the mental capacity to appreciate a multitasking device/computer actually like to open the hood and tweak it. Sure, iPhone apps may seem to run smoother. But that's because of the lack of multitasking! My HD (or any other Windows Mobile device) runs processes and applications in the background so you can do more and be more productive.
Honestly, do a side by side comparison of the HD and the iPhone. And I am not talking software, I mean hardware. We can debate applications all day, but it's the hardware that defines the capabilities. If you want a list of HD hardware features then I will post them for you.

*double post*

DerrickD2,
You have misunderstood the thrust of my post, that the iphone was/is a trailblazing and revolutionary device in the mobile sector. It seems anywhere bar this 'nerdy spec-hugging' forum that its not too hard to accept. The Touch HD is a better device in my opinion too as like I already stated, other companies have played catch up. There is no need to tell me its hardware specs.
But to pick up on a few points:
* Upgradeable SD is important, it annoys me to only have 16gb but I can stream content off free iphone optimised filestores available, some providing 10gb a go. Not ideal but workable.
* Spare battery, well the iphones battery is pretty decent and lasts for many years. If you want to keep the battery charged you can do it on the fly by adding these 'double your battery' packs and their ilk/cases when you are running low and you dont even 'have to swap the battery':
http://us.kensington.com/html/15462.html
* You can cut and paste text in jailbroken phones within the app. You can mulitask too, to an extent on JB phones although I dont know if it's sytemwide cut and paste (prob. not)
* Megapixels aren't everything on a camera. Its about the lens too. The 2MP camera of the iphone image quality is known to be quite decent, better than most 3.2MP HTC offerings but I agree it should have a better camera.
* Like I said the iphone isn't productivity centred and its probably why they dont consider multitasking a crucial feature but from what I understand its processor is faster than any HTC phone. Jailbroken iphones can run background apps too but obviously native apps dont support this.
We can debate applications all day, but it's the hardware that defines the capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is so contentious! Hardware can define the capabilites and software/OS/User experience can define the capabilties! It depends on what the consumer needs. Horses for course's!

Is the Androind OS and the N1 overrated? I think it is!

FIRST: the intention of this post it not to flame. These is just my point of view and I would love to hear some other people’s point of view.
This is just an observation from a real cell phone junkie who is coming from WinMo and iPhone to android and is a bit disappointed.
It just feels like the Android platform is overrated and half baked. While it has its “Google apps” advantage, most of the other parts of it are seriously lacking.
Coming from an iPhone(which I hated because of apple’s dictatorship and because it feels like a dumbphone) and the HD2, which is a brilliant device with a very capable OS which has stability issues and lack of new useful apps development, I wanted to try something new with Android. It should have been the prefect mix between openness and development of new useful apps (which WinMo lacks). So far I have been nothing but disappointed.
Some of the issue I noticed and why I think Android is really overrated are:
- Very low end apps. Most of them are poorly designed and unstable. There are a few good apps but none from the major players.
- BUGGY apps!!! One of the reason WinMo was failing is because of cross device support for apps. Apps that would work on one device would not work on another because of different hardware chipsets. I was sure that Google would see this is a point of failure and will make sure this won’t happen with Android. WRONG: almost every app I downloaded has bugs and is not working properly with the N1 and if you just read the comments for the various apps you see the horror. So many people complain about FC’s and instability of the apps. This means that Google simply failed in this area and there is no real cross device support. Each app needs to be tweaked to work on each hardware set to get it right. This is going to be a huge point of failure for the platform.
- Crippled copy and paste. Seriously? You can’t copy and paste from everywhere in version 2.1??? didn’t they learn from apple?
- No built in Tethering. Again this is OS version 2.1 and there is no tethering option unless you root you phone.
- Feels sluggish at time: even on a 1Ghz processor the phone does feel sluggish at time (and yes I close my apps with task manager). Some say it is because the RAM was not fully utilized in this OS. Why have Google released a phone that suppose to have 512MB RAM with only half active? Didn’t they think it would cause bad experience?
- Very poor multimedia support: and I mean VERY poor. Even the built in YouTube Video player will not rescale the video to show on the entire screen if the video was not encoded specifically to the N1 resolution, not to mention other video apps who will NEVER show videos at full screen as they were designed for lower resolutions. There is really no way to watch DIVX or XVID and everything needs to be converted. There are dozens of media players on the market and NONE can do either tasks! And yxflash, the only player that can supposedly play DIVX is doing such a poor job it is a joke. WinMo has ONE player that beats all dozens on the android market. I read somewhere it isrelated to the SDK being very limited in Multimedia. I find it hard to believe that Google is trying to compete with apple witch such a poor Multimedia support. I even purchased OrbLive and the picture quality is extremely poor because they were forced to use the only codec that Android can support for streaming which is 3gp and has very poor quality.
- No big brand name apps: Skype, Sling and many other big brands are simply not there. I know you can use Fring as an alternative (or Nimbuzz) but both are very buggy and have delay when using skype calling. You also can’t turn off the screen when you use the VOIP apps as it is causing the sound to break.
- VPN: very poor support. I can’t get the connection to stay connected while it works just fine on the HD2 and iPhone. The latest software update from Google completely broke VPN support and now it won’t connect at all.
- There is no real way to backup all you apps AND settings of the apps unless you have rooted your phone. If you want to upgrade your ROM or change ROM’s you need to reinstall everything (unless you are rooted and then you can backup your apps settings as well). This is something that should be implemented out of the box. WinMo has exactly the same problem.
- Failure in the gaming area. There are maybe 20 good games on the Market that actually use OpenGL 3d. other games look like they are from the mid 90s. I was hoping to see better games on Android than on WinMo. I guess I was wrong here as well.
I wanted to like Android, I really did, and maybe it will get better with time, however currently it has exactly the issues as WinMo phones has (buggy apps mainly, some OS slowdowns ) and if Google is not going to address these issues they will find themselves in the same position as Microsoft is finding itself now.
For now I’ll have to go back using my HD2 and just wait until Android gets a little better and more usable for me. I just really don’t understand people hate WinMo so much if Android is not much better (at least from my consumer standpoint).
Thanks for reading.

Number one reason and the only one I need to hate WinMo is Internet Exploder. It's broken badly. They had better fix this in 7 or they are done. The fact that you have to use a third party browser to do anything useful is total BS.
I think for most people, who don't want to think to hard, Iphone OS is probably a better choice. The interface is dead simple and there are a ton of apps. Most people won't realize that they are being fenced in.

The majority of your rambling is about apps. I don't think anyone overrates Android's app catalog. Everyone knows it's much smaller than the iPhone's.
It's not overrated in the way that people tend to praise it, which is openness and customization.

I agree on IE but like the fact that you can chose various browsers.

App support is dreadful compared to the Iphone but you have to look at the sales figures in ITMS vs. Market; $ = incentive. Yes right now it's apples and oranges but when someone is researching what device to buy and what carrier to swear allegiance to for 2 years, there are certain variables considered.
Take a heavy facebook user. The iphone fbook app is solid. Yes it has issues, but compared to the android solution, there is no contest. The fact that you have to use m.facebook.com when linking from your notifications panel in android is quite unacceptable (just one of many issues people have brought up). Pandora on the iphone is also quite a bit better than on android.
I disagree in regards to your comment about the phone being snappy. I have my old iphone 3g and my nexus 1 sitting side by side and real world feel says that the n1 wins in performance.
For me there are two things I wish were present with the nexus one/androidOS that are present on the iphone.
1 - app support. That is targeting android.
2 - the keyboard. For some reason I can type far more accurately and with greater speed on the iphone than on my n1. Not a deal breaker at all
You bring up tethering. There is no native tethering on the iphone without jailbreaking or paying for an app (pdanet) for the official stateside carrier (att). Your nexus one has the ability to install pdanet and you can tether all you want at a small price. Of course, you can root your phone and suddenly this ask is satisfied; just like jailbreaking and updating your carrier file.
If you want to talk about setbacks; how about the lack of MMS for the first gen iphones while the 3g/3gs both have this. No reason whatsoever to not include the functionality in the 2g other than slow deprecation of support for the phone...that just sucks.
There are plenty of solid games in Market for your device. I had to watch a video "50 android games" to be made aware of quite a few of these tiles.
For me, nothing you wrote kept me from migrating back to android after spending a year with an iphone (g1->iphone->n1; the entire time I had the iphone I missed my g1) But I am not the target audience device manufs are going after...almost nobody here is.
All your points are valid and are what the atypical customer thinks about, cares about and bases their monetary decisions on.
Good post

deprecate said:
App support is dreadful compared to the Iphone but you have to look at the sales figures in ITMS vs. Market; $ = incentive. Yes right now it's apples and oranges but when someone is researching what device to buy and what carrier to swear allegiance to for 2 years, there are certain variables considered.
Take a heavy facebook user. The iphone fbook app is solid. Yes it has issues, but compared to the android solution, there is no contest. The fact that you have to use m.facebook.com when linking from your notifications panel in android is quite unacceptable (just one of many issues people have brought up). Pandora on the iphone is also quite a bit better than on android.
I disagree in regards to your comment about the phone being snappy. I have my old iphone 3g and my nexus 1 sitting side by side and real world feel says that the n1 wins in performance.
For me there are two things I wish were present with the nexus one/androidOS that are present on the iphone.
1 - app support. That is targeting android.
2 - the keyboard. For some reason I can type far more accurately and with greater speed on the iphone than on my n1. Not a deal breaker at all
You bring up tethering. There is no native tethering on the iphone without jailbreaking or paying for an app (pdanet) for the official stateside carrier (att). Your nexus one has the ability to install pdanet and you can tether all you want at a small price. Of course, you can root your phone and suddenly this ask is satisfied; just like jailbreaking and updating your carrier file.
If you want to talk about setbacks; how about the lack of MMS for the first gen iphones while the 3g/3gs both have this. No reason whatsoever to not include the functionality in the 2g other than slow deprecation of support for the phone...that just sucks.
There are plenty of solid games in Market for your device. I had to watch a video "50 android games" to be made aware of quite a few of these tiles.
For me, nothing you wrote kept me from migrating back to android after spending a year with an iphone (g1->iphone->n1; the entire time I had the iphone I missed my g1) But I am not the target audience device manufs are going after...almost nobody here is.
All your points are valid and are what the atypical customer thinks about, cares about and bases their monetary decisions on.
Good post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for all the replies.
However please keep in mind that in my original post, i was hardly making any comparison to the iPhone and at the end of my post i stated that i am going back to the HD2 . The iPhone is the last platform i am going back to, even with all the apps. i Just cant keep with the Apple / Jailbreakers game and all the limitations.
You do have native tethering on the iPhone, only it is disabled because at&t does not want you to have it. in other countries it works out of the box. no Jailbreak needed.
I agree that market share = incentive for developers however i am a bit worried that with the current state of the SDK, we will see the same old issues with cross device support for apps, and this is exactly where WinMo failed and the iPhone won (because there is only one device to support (chipset wise), so far)
If only the apps that are in the market now would work better, my point of view will be much different.
I want to use Skype, OK there is no real skype app so i tried to use Fring...DELAY on the call. unusable. I tried to use Nimbuzz, it is better but you cant turn off the screen so the battery dies fast.
I want to watch a movie > need to convert.
I want to watch live TV > there is still not a single app that can actually do this. ORB's app is really bad at the current version.
I want to tether > need to root (i am ok with this) but wireless tether never connected to my laptop. unusable. Wired tether worked fine.
I did watch the 50 best games on Android Video and the are in par with WinMo's games and so far WinMo is giving better usability. but the OS is not so stable hehe...
I guess there is no perfect phone.
Overall is the lack of actual functionally is what killed it for me. I hope it will get better in the future and then i can give it another try

as you said, there is no perfect phone. but give it a little time, android is only a year old after all. i for one have little to no problems with FCs from any of the apps i'm using, so it also depends on what you like to do with your phone.
my main issue atm. is the lack of good bluetooth enabled voice dialing (and lack of any voice dialing at all for non-english users).
and the pet peeve would be the missing framework for the trackball colors.
other than that i'm really enjoiying the relative openess of the platform, and having cyanogen as a developer

Tether without root with PDAnet. This program works great.

Looks like the OP need's to have a read over yonder
There's also been a great deal of talk in the development forum regarding new openGL support in 2.0.
App space has been limited in android and thats a factor, but this is being resolved and we will start to see more 'pretty' applications, but I would argue that android has just as many useful and good applications as the iPhone.

The ONLY windows mobile device that I would trade my Nexus One for is an HD2. It'd be a tough decision though. My touch pro 2 was fun from a customization stand point because I seemed to flash a new rom at least once every couple of days. However, it was painful to use, it was slow, required frequent restarts, work-arounds galore, etc etc. Android may have some bugs, but I have far less trouble with day to day use with my Nexus than I did with my TP2. The hardware power of the HD2 would probably alleviate the thing that killed the TP2 for me and that was the annoying speed (or lack thereof).
Iphone OS is boring, but it works reliably. Safari mobile on my Ipod touch is a great browsing experience (nexus is better though, simply due to the power).
The only major problem I have with Android 2.1 on my nexus is its lack of full exchange support. However, if I really cared that much about it I would drop the $20 to get Touchdown and be done with it. Oh, and I would really love it if a full version of Epocrates made its way to android sometime soon.
This is of course for my uses, and in my experience. Therefore, I am just adding my opinion to the bunch...

Firstly, how can you say the N1 is laggy? Seriously? Especially compared to a WinMo device, and even the iPhone 3GS. The N1 is hands down the fastest smart phone I have ever used, whether it be my own personally owned smart phone, or one I was testing for work. Most actions are instant or near instant in their result, and the only time I find myself waiting at all is when data transfer from the network is involved, and it does that faster on my N1 than any other phone I have tried! Actually, I can load some websites faster than my computer, and I am not talking about sites that use flash either.
Secondly, yes a 1 year old OS platform does not have the same level of app support that a 4 year old platform has(iPhone/iTouch) or a decade old platform (WM). However, it is an open source platform that is growing quickly. While not all 15K apps are perfect for every device, this is true of the WM platform and the iPhone platform. There are plenty of great apps, that don't reqiure root.
Thirdly, the Android OS supports the same media playback functions as the iPhone OS... and actually can handle more in some regards. The N1 will have native flash support someday(hopefully very soon), where as Apple has picked a fight with Adobe, and likely never will have flash support. To say the Android OS, and the N1 falls short in multi-media compared to the iPhone is ignorant, to say the least. WM does support more formats, but at the same time that is a result of a OS in developement a lot longer than Android, as well the current Android OS can support Divx, et al, but companies like CorePlayer do not want to make an app until this support is in the SDK natively, and CorePlayer has pointed out they are working closely with Google, and it looks as though Android 2.5(Froyo).
Fourthly, as someone that sells cell phones for a living, the Android OS is the best smart phone OS for me to sell to consumers by a long ways. It is much more functional than the BB OS, yet maintains the ease of use. iPhone OS lacks most of the top smart phone functions, and WinMo is too slow and buggy. While 3rd party apps are not perfect, this is true of any platform, and at least with Android it will force close instead of freeze the phone. As well, the apps that are quality work very well and blow most other stuff out of the water, ie CameraFX. I have yet to have a customer complain that a free app wasn't working right... nor complain that the phones were buggy.

I was someone that came from winmo.
Android is much more polished than wimo, but it's barebones out of the box.
Winmo is much more packed with utilities out of the box, but lacks the polish of android.
That has alot to do with the timeframes of when these things derived. Android thrives on the "there's an app for that!" ecosystem.
Up until winmo (6.1?) there was no place to just get a quick app, so MS had to implement more things to give a better out of box experience. Too bad they lacked cleanliness.

Yes, Android has bugs and Yes, Market is poor compared to iPhone. But if you sum things up, I think Android wins. And Nexus wins as well, since I has the best hardware on the market today (or one of the best) 1Ghz CPU + AMOLED display + big resolution

Sorry, double post.

- There is no real way to backup all you apps AND settings of the apps unless you have rooted your phone. If you want to upgrade your ROM or change ROM’s you need to reinstall everything (unless you are rooted and then you can backup your apps settings as well). This is something that should be implemented out of the box. WinMo has exactly the same problem.
Give the market a closer look, and download MyBackup - it does indeed backup apps and settings, along with other things like bookmarks, contacts, the usual. This is the only point I could point out from your post without having to go into extensive detail ._.

As well, to add to my last post, there is multi-phone support with the apps and the Android OS... if this wasn't so, why would the Moto apps work on the Nexus One? While an app written for Android 1.0/1.5/1.6 might not work on 2.1 perfectly, this does not change the fact an app written with the 2.1 SDK will work on any phone running 2.1(actually, SDK 2.0+ will work with any 2.0+ phone, minus live wallpapers.)
But that is to be expected, just as an app written for iPhone OS 1.0 won't work properly with 3.1.3, or WM5.0 apps won't work with WM6.5 properly.

Isn't this a pointless debate.
It like like trying to debate good vs evil, butter vs margarine, pro-choice vs pro-life?
He seems to have come up with his own very logical, sound reasons why and why not android is over rated. There are countless arguments for both sides and I've read all 15 post of this. Android like the iPhone OS like Windows, like symbian all have their strong and weak points. No perfect phone OS out there. But rather whiny and complain of this and that maybe improve it, like some of the really great developers here which advances Android OS and make it great for all of us users.
In the end do I care if you move to Window mobile...not really. Hope you are happy. Move on. Have a nice life.

amen sir

this thread is only worthy of a one line reply. ...

Well... Having never used a WinMo device. I can't argue that side of things... I owned a Blackberry (NEVER again!!!!), and I own an iPod Touch. Sure, the iTouch isn't the phone, but they're certainly one in the same. My iTouch is jailbroken btw.
With that said, I've never owned a better overall device than the N1. Don't get me wrong, it has its quirks and issues. But man, this thing IS my Media Player, my GPS, my overall entertainment "finder" (Where/Places/Aloqa), Grocery Lists, Forum browser (I'd say I'm 50/50 with Phone and PC while surfing web and forums now).
Sure, the apps could use some work... But, with quality devices being placed on the market, the apps WILL follow. Realize that the main reason the apps market isn't bigger, is because of the strangle-hold that Apple currently has on the market. Many Devs have invested into Apple development and have customers there. It's hard to talk them into changing their ways. In time, they'll sure move over to Android though.
With that said, the apps I get... Work for me. Just the basics: Handcent, Meebo, Car Home, Where/Places, "OurGroceries", Mixzing (Still not my ideal choice, but it gets the job done for now... And yes, I've tried Meridian, nemoPlayer, Stock, and TuneWiki), "Listen", and so on.
Yes, I've deleted as many apps as I still have on my phone (Many more than listed above)... But I've stuck with some that get the job done. If I could ask for only 2 other apps, it'd be Mint.com and Audible.com... Otherwise, I can be content in knowing I have my ideal communication device, with some GPS goodness, and it plays through my car speakers wirelessly.
So no... I don't consider it overrated, but rather too young. It'll mature in time.

Thinking of leaving Windows Phone for Android?

Holy $#!^ don't do it! I had some issues with the WP8 upgrade that upset me enough to try out the competition. I left the Lumia 920 for the HTC One 4 months ago. I will say that having apps for everything and the ability to flash Rom's is cool, but that's about it. The OS sucks. I have jotted down some of my personal grievances in case anyone who thinks like me is thinking of switching. This will hopefully prevent a ton of wasted time and money.
• Overall OS is buggy and a total resource hog. It requires premium hardware specs to deliver an experience close to the smoothness and fluidity found in Windows Phone and iOS, but still doesn’t achieve that. And don’t even think about matching performance of budget Android phones vs. budget Windows Phones, not even in the same league.
• It requires almost daily reboot’s to keep performance from suffering or the OS from completely crashing. This usually depends on how many apps I use on any given day but is still far, far lower in performance reliability than Windows Phone.
• It is the most virus prone mobile OS available. This is pretty huge. In addition, Google data mines every account you set up on the phone. As soon as I set up my company IMAP account, and I mean, next day, I started receiving junk for the first time in 4 years. Absolutely unforgivable.
• Touch responsiveness is a joke. The delay on the keyboard response, for example, when you’re used to iOS or WP is unbearable for me and feels super low quality
• The graphics and icons are kind of toy which requires a launcher and icon pack to remedy. Even then, most packs I tried only covered half the apps I needed and the remaining app icons looked stupid. So I had to individually edit icons to get something acceptable to me.
• Communication apps are horrible. Mail, Contacts, Messaging and Dialer apps can all be replaced by better alternatives, but you run into issues when using one Dev’s dialer, another’s contacts app because the contacts app has a dialer that sucks and vice versa but when both are installed...... Forget it. It’s all a confusing mess that forced me back to the stock applications experience, which sucks.
• Most Android users and developers will tell you that the only way to get the best performance out of Android is to flash a custom ROM. In other words, Google has done such a rookie job on this OS that a community of non-paid hobbyists (Who are incredibly talented and people who help others to seemingly no end) are the go to guys when you want to achieve today’s standards in smartphone performance! Only, not all ROM’s are created equally and aside from the pains of flashing until you find something you like, you risk bricking your phone and voiding the warranty. Google should hire these Dev's and release something quality from the gate!
• Music library management is so painful for me. I, like many people have used iTunes for years and also used Zune and Xbox Music. Apple is the obvious winner here as iTunes works seamlessly with iOS. Windows Phone has a clean little desktop app that syncs my iTunes playlists and songs, but it’s an extra step. Android requires a desktop app and Android app combo. There are a bunch and the one I found the least annoying was TuneSync but I couldn’t get it to work via USB so it took an eternity to sync a few playlists. And, the stock music player is ****.
Honestly, I don't understand how Android has the explosive market share it's enjoying today, I hate it. When I compare it to Windows Phone or iOS, it's like a cheap knock off of what a smartphone OS is supposed to feel like. They have apps, lots of apps and some of which I will really miss. But the OS? When comparing straight up performance, integration of services, stability and reliability, polish, fluidity and built in communication suite, for me it's no contest and I can't wait to get back to Windows Phone!
Hope this helps someone!

You just dun get ride in Android OS for my opinion...lol
For me Android is great, not so like Windows Mobile, iOS still ok if for daily use.
Of course if in smoothness Windows phone and iOS are more smooth than Android, but that's got something Android can found but other OS can't found one; and also in Android 4.3 this problem is finally solve (by using my Nexus 7 2nd gen)
For my opinion, Android is more to those engineering ppl, Windows phone is more to business ppl

nahh, its just you.
1) I dont have to reboot my phone. my uptime is like 100 hrs, and no lag or bugs or anything like tat.
2) what are you doing.. seriously? two questions. did you install porn? -virus+spam and how many instant messaging apps do you have? -lag
3) icons are smth i complain about as well. android and iOS is the same type of icons. windows give a sense of class.
4) itunes, seriously?? i stop using my ipod coz of itunes, i threw away my iphone coz of itunes. music syncing is a piece of crap, especially on a home computer.
5) touch responsiveness? i tink you got to send ur unit to the service centre, probably got a faulty unit
6) custom roms are there for a reason. Google provide a vanilla rom: smooth and minimal. All the other manufacturers are making their own rom=lag/useless. So custom rom are made for ppl to give variety, like PA having hybrid prop, and aokp having lots of stuff to customise.
7) Communication app problem? its coz ur used to ur WP. when i use WP, i feel like throwing it away too.
8) music app really kinda sucks tho, i just stream.
Windows phone really look classy, and i like the feel. but with the limitation, it obviously show why the market share keeps dropping.
iOS-getting outdated. iOS 7 looks cool, but usability is so last decade
WP- classy, for non-tech people who is so lazy to make their phone look special
Android- too much customization, but everyone's device is unique. well except those non-techie again.
Ubuntu- cool, but still buggy.

Wp class for no tech people ok but no file manager, no manual network setting....nooo

sss2sssss said:
You just dun get ride in Android OS for my opinion...lol
For me Android is great, not so like Windows Mobile, iOS still ok if for daily use.
Of course if in smoothness Windows phone and iOS are more smooth than Android, but that's got something Android can found but other OS can't found one; and also in Android 4.3 this problem is finally solve (by using my Nexus 7 2nd gen)
For my opinion, Android is more to those engineering ppl, Windows phone is more to business ppl
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android for engineer people? What exactly has android that helps "engineer" people?

jacktay94 said:
nahh, its just you.
Windows phone really look classy, and i like the feel. but with the limitation, it obviously show why the market share keeps dropping.
Ubuntu- cool, but still buggy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually Windows Phone's market share is increasing... Blackberry is the one that's slowly dwindling.
Agree with you on Ubuntu... I'm interested to see the "final product".
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 4

I made the mistake of getting a WP8 phone after being an Android fan for some time. I currently own a Nokia Lumia WP8, an iPhone 5 for work and the Galaxy S and Galaxy S2 in a drawer at the house.
No phone is perfect, Android has it's share of issues, as does iOS as does WP8. It's just that Android and iPhone can at least do the things they do and do it well. WP8 still doesn't have a decent facebook app or decent map app, the data speeds are significantly slower than other android/ios phones that are on the same network, push notifications sometimes don't come through until far after the notification was originally pushed. Battery life is sub-par, little customization of the OS, even the larger and more popular applications that actually do manage to make it to WP8 end up having their gui re-written and tailored to look like the rest of WP8 which actually becomes pretty boring and mundane after a while, you can't even get any decent browser options like Chrome, Firefox or even Opera for that matter. Instead, what you end up finding are a bunch of knock-off applications written by little-known dev companies or freelance programmers with all sorts of Chinese, Indian or Russian sounding names that are garbage and do who-knows-what in the background.
I could go on, but suffice it to say, this will likely be my last Windows Phone purchase. The WP8 gui looks decent and is snappy and smooth but beyond that, it doesn't do a whole lot.

really i am in the other site i dont like the sandbox of windows mobile 8 i came to windows mobile from somewhat more easily customized oses symbian and android.
as of now i am going back to android
i ve had a nexus 4 and i had no lag
also an os that doesnt let you do anything with it is not really working as a smartphone at least ios has been jailbroken for a while and some things can be used as they should have been used .
in my opinion windows mobile must rid of locks on it.it is sure that if it doesnt let you do anything it would be lag free but what is the gain then?.
and by that i say that i may come back when a jailbreak is near my phone (ascend w1)....

ericdude said:
I made the mistake of getting a WP8 phone after being an Android fan for some time. I currently own a Nokia Lumia WP8, an iPhone 5 for work and the Galaxy S and Galaxy S2 in a drawer at the house.
No phone is perfect, Android has it's share of issues, as does iOS as does WP8. It's just that Android and iPhone can at least do the things they do and do it well. WP8 still doesn't have a decent facebook app or decent map app, the data speeds are significantly slower than other android/ios phones that are on the same network....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would disagree with most of this except push notifications . I have done a few data speed tests because I was suspicious that the One was actually slower but apps like speedtest reflected comparable results for my wife's Lumia 920 vs. my One. Nokia's Maps are really nice, better experience than Apples but I do like Google's offering the best. More points:
Battery: My phone is off the charger at 7 a.m. and back on at 10 p.m. I operate a small business so tons of talk time tons of navigation, I notice no difference in battery performance from my 920 to the One
OS Customizing: Don't really care about this but its true. I have tried 10 to 15 launchers and God knows how many Rom's trying to customize an experience that Android can't deliver. I like the WP OS and really have no desire to make any changes to it with the exception of a few features I would like MS to add.
Apps - I think I already addressed this
Browser - I would go heads up with any browser vs. IE 10 mobile. To say its not decent is just old school MS bash talk to me. Its fast & fluid like everything built in to the OS
But, I defend Windows Phone because I like it and feel like the experience it offers is superior to what I get from Android. You obviously feel the same about Android. I'm only writing this because I think people can tell when someone thinks the way they do, so for people who think like I do and love the Windows Phone OS, my advice is that you stay put unless you can afford to play around with competing devices.
BTW I bashed Android without pointing out what I love about Windows Phone:
People Hub – deep social integration with Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Skype and offers superior groups and room’s options
Search – Instant results for local eating, shopping and events. Integrated music DNA search, integrated vision search supporting barcodes, QR, MS Tags, CD, DVD and book covers.
Groups – Offers users the ability to share group calendar, group OneNote notebook, group pictures and group chatting
Messaging – Facebook chat integration and integrated location sharing etc.
Dynamic Icons – Instead of a static image Live Tiles provide live updates and can be pinned in 3 different sizes
Deep App Pinning – Instead of just an eBay icon, users can pin an eBay item tile to the Start screen and view updated information right from that tile. Or, pin an actual TuneIn station.
Microsoft Office – Free and complete Microsoft Office mobile suite
Kid’s Corner – Cool to keep the kids in a sandbox
Online Backup – SkyDrive integration offers backup features for photos, instant photo upload, music, documents, phone app list and phone settings. The SkyDrive capabilities on Windows OS makes sharing and using data across smartphone and tablet or PC seamless and better than any competing option

jacktay94 said:
nahh, its just you.
Windows phone really look classy, and i like the feel. but with the limitation, it obviously show why the market share keeps dropping.
iOS-getting outdated. iOS 7 looks cool, but usability is so last decade
WP- classy, for non-tech people who is so lazy to make their phone look special
Android- too much customization, but everyone's device is unique. well except those non-techie again.
Ubuntu- cool, but still buggy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, it's not just me bud:
1) "my uptime is like 100 hrs, and no lag or bugs or anything like that" - Seriously!? You can keep your phone on for 4 whole days without bugs or anything! Bravo, thanks for making my point.
2) "what are you doing.. seriously? two questions. did you install porn? " I'm operating a small business. No porn and I didn't say I personally got a virus. I said the Android is the most susceptible and that I DID get data mined to a private work email that was never spammed in the 4 years since I created it. Until Android
3) I obviously agree.
4) "iTunes, seriously??" Yes seriously. For starters I purchase all of my music and iTunes has a massive catalogue. Also, this music is for me and my family. I have to send it to multiple devices (PC's and mobile devices) and multiple OS's. Android is the biggest problem child in that mix.
5) "touch responsiveness?" I have had 3 HTC Ones actually. Press a key on the keyboard and watch how long it takes the keyboard to respond. Then try it on a Windows Phone. Pretty clear
6) "custom roms are there for a reason" your reasons are nonsense. Here is a quote from the about of my favorite ROM "a stock ROM experience with the ability to choose the features and functions they want, demand performance and expect stability!" NOTE THE STABILITY AND PERFORMANCE PART
7) "Communication app problem? its coz ur used to ur WP." No it's not. I think the iOS communications suite is superior as well.
8) "music app really kinda sucks tho, i just stream." I do that too but I have a massive music collection I love to listen too
Bottom line is that I just don't like Android. I know that there are a lot of people who Android works well for I mean them no disrespect. I am not trying to talk them in to moving to my favorite OS and would never do that. I am sharing my experience for people who like the same kinds of thins I do and thought about trying the competition, even though they like Windows Phone. Many would be disappointed and for them, I say don't waste your time or money

TechJunkiesCA said:
Nah, it's not just me bud:
1) "my uptime is like 100 hrs, and no lag or bugs or anything like that" - Seriously!? You can keep your phone on for 4 whole days without bugs or anything! Bravo, thanks for making my point.
2) "what are you doing.. seriously? two questions. did you install porn? " I'm operating a small business. No porn and I didn't say I personally got a virus. I said the Android is the most susceptible and that I DID get data mined to a private work email that was never spammed in the 4 years since I created it. Until Android
3) I obviously agree.
4) "iTunes, seriously??" Yes seriously. For starters I purchase all of my music and iTunes has a massive catalogue. Also, this music is for me and my family. I have to send it to multiple devices (PC's and mobile devices) and multiple OS's. Android is the biggest problem child in that mix.
5) "touch responsiveness?" I have had 3 HTC Ones actually. Press a key on the keyboard and watch how long it takes the keyboard to respond. Then try it on a Windows Phone. Pretty clear
6) "custom roms are there for a reason" your reasons are nonsense. Here is a quote from the about of my favorite ROM "a stock ROM experience with the ability to choose the features and functions they want, demand performance and expect stability!" NOTE THE STABILITY AND PERFORMANCE PART
7) "Communication app problem? its coz ur used to ur WP." No it's not. I think the iOS communications suite is superior as well.
8) "music app really kinda sucks tho, i just stream." I do that too but I have a massive music collection I love to listen too
Bottom line is that I just don't like Android. I know that there are a lot of people who Android works well for I mean them no disrespect. I am not trying to talk them in to moving to my favorite OS and would never do that. I am sharing my experience for people who like the same kinds of thins I do and thought about trying the competition, even though they like Windows Phone. Many would be disappointed and for them, I say don't waste your time or money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) yupp, i just switched my phone off ystd, coz i changed the battery. after like one whole week of being on.
2)You probably registered your email in some website tho. Android didn't give me spam
3) yeahh
4) dont you find it a hassle when you sync ur family members playlist when u just wanna charge your ipod? your from the states, so i understand, coz we in malaysia dun buy much music, especially on itunes. hehe wat i do is just copy+paste, no need to complicate things, back to basics.
5) hmmm, i probably need to post a video of me typing then. hahaha! but really, was it on custom rom?
6) the most stable rom: vanilla, pure android is most stable man. performance is overclocking, google wont endorse that.
7) coz both are simple. too simple. hahaha!
8) like play music app, whole library free for a month, wat other collection do you want?
nahh, just making conversation. planning to get a lumnia 600+ series as a for fun phone, just wanna check out the real feel of using WP, when i get the budget. hehe

I have both Android and WP. What I like in Android is that I can do pretty much anything with it like on a PC, but that's where it stops. I have a Samsung Galaxy S which is a pretty old phone and I have a custom rom with Android 4.2 on it. The phone came with android 2.3 and Samsung just decided it did not have enough RAM to run 4.x well and stopped updating it. Well, it is much less laggy on the custom ROM with 4.x than the stock ROM with 2.x. I would never trust an Android device as a phone, it just is too crashy and buggy OS to do anything important. With the stock ROM it rebooted many times when I tried to answer a call etc, and web browsing exprience just sucks. This has to do with the low memory but 512MB should be enough for a phone. When I browse the web on Android, other apps that run in the background get killed and eventually the browser stops working too (Just like on good old Symbian ). My WP7 (Samsung Omnia 7) has nearly identical specs and I have no memory problems, I have several hundred megabytes of free RAM no matter what I do and browsing is very smooth. Also it's annoying when you need to take a quick pic of something important and the Camera app crashes on Android... One thing Android does better than WP is scrolling long lists - it takes ages to scroll a long list on WP, but on Android the scrolling accelerates when you scroll..

OP keeping WP circlejerk alive as always

Taurenking said:
OP keeping WP circlejerk alive as always
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously? Grow up
Edit - and go away. This is a WP thread. Why droid people are here making negative comments never ceases to amaze me. I don't read your threads let alone comment in them.

ericdude said:
I made the mistake of getting a WP8 phone after being an Android fan for some time. I currently own a Nokia Lumia WP8, an iPhone 5 for work and the Galaxy S and Galaxy S2 in a drawer at the house.
No phone is perfect, Android has it's share of issues, as does iOS as does WP8. It's just that Android and iPhone can at least do the things they do and do it well. WP8 still doesn't have a decent facebook app or decent map app, the data speeds are significantly slower than other android/ios phones that are on the same network, push notifications sometimes don't come through until far after the notification was originally pushed. Battery life is sub-par, little customization of the OS, even the larger and more popular applications that actually do manage to make it to WP8 end up having their gui re-written and tailored to look like the rest of WP8 which actually becomes pretty boring and mundane after a while, you can't even get any decent browser options like Chrome, Firefox or even Opera for that matter. Instead, what you end up finding are a bunch of knock-off applications written by little-known dev companies or freelance programmers with all sorts of Chinese, Indian or Russian sounding names that are garbage and do who-knows-what in the background.
I could go on, but suffice it to say, this will likely be my last Windows Phone purchase. The WP8 gui looks decent and is snappy and smooth but beyond that, it doesn't do a whole lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really care about a "decent" FB app so I'll give you that one. But if you think that Google Maps is anywhere as good as Here, you have no idea what a good map app is. Or maybe you don't have a Lumia. Nokia's mapping software is going to be the industry standard soon now that it's available for iOS. You know those fanboys are having a hard time without a usable map app.
MS Office + SkyDrive - 'nuff said.
People Hub - only webOS Synergy was better
Nokia Cinemagraph - best stock animation and GIF creator
The fact that WP8 can be as fluid and lag-free as any other OS without needing 20 cores and 4 GB of RAM speaks volumes about the OS itself. PalmOS was probably the only other OS that was as resource-friendly as WP, Symbian a close second.
I don't dislike Android, or iOS for that matter, I just find WP8 to be the best all-around combination of phone and OS. MS has stringent rules about how their OS is to be presented and that might not be such a bad thing.

Windows phone 8 isn't windows mobile. They're two different os.
Sent from my Nokia 521 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Taurenking said:
OP keeping WP circlejerk alive as always
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh look I'm blushing! Hey, trolling forums of devices or operating systems you don't use speaks volumes of how engaging your platform must be, not to mention your personal life. Hope things pick up for you!

I'm considering getting a lumia 925 or 1020 to replace my HTC One. I've become bored with android and ios. What're everyone's thoughts and anything I should know before making the switch?
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Amrut223 said:
I'm considering getting a lumia 925 or 1020 to replace my HTC One. I've become bored with android and ios. What're everyone's thoughts and anything I should know before making the switch?
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wait for the snapdragon 800 nokia phone if you can; if you're gonna buy an old phone instead of a new one, make sure you don't have a not for resale phone(demo unit).
Many apps won't work, you'll have to make do for a while... what is your typical phone use?

Why wait for the new soc. From what I've been reading wp runs smooth on almost anything. I have no interest in benchmark scores. I simply want to get decent battery life.
Speaking of which. How does the lumia 925 hold up in that respect?? Reviews seem to have mixed feelings about it.
Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk 4