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Hi !
Does anyone actually know if android can be installed / flashed on current devices ? Or it's only for certain devices that come with it preinstalled ?
Please don't post things like: "i would love it if it did" or "omg, android is great"...
I'm looking for an answer from someone who actually knows or someone who knows exactly how this stuff works...
Thanks
PS: Menneisyys, i hope you'll post something
I don't think that you'll be getting your answer any time soon as nobody has seen the thing yet.
But i would speculate that as HTC is one of the partners, it might be possible. HTC probably wont reinvent their phones again for the android.
Not a programmer...
but i was listening to leo laport yesterday and it seems that ggls world domination strategy would be all including. so it seems very likely that they would allow some version of it for use on other phones.
http://techguylabs.com/radio/ShowNotes/Show403#toc5
At this point, since there there is no release yet and nobody has/can play with it, it's probably hard to say. However, knowing Google, there is a good possibility they will come out with an app that allows you to use your current phone (speculation).
I heard that Android based on some Java-sintacsys - maybe it is good for us?
Well, the SDK has been released, get it here: http://code.google.com/android/. A demo video is available on the page to show you what it's capable of thus far--looks promising. I'm no coder, but I wish someone would develop this for current HTC devices. As an incentive, Google launched an Android Developer Challenge (http://code.google.com/android/adc.html), where developers of "innovative, useful apps" can win up to $275,000.
leetsauce said:
Well, the SDK has been released, get it here: http://code.google.com/android/. A demo video is available on the page to show you what it's capable of thus far--looks promising. I'm no coder, but I wish someone would develop this for current HTC devices. As an incentive, Google launched an Android Developer Challenge (http://code.google.com/android/adc.html), where developers of "innovative, useful apps" can win up to $275,000.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I grabbed the SDk and got a basic hello world up and running. From what the video said and what I can glean from various sites. The Android OS is designed to run on existing hardware. I would imagine that includes HTC machines. Its a complete OS though not an app so I would imagine you have to blow away WM6 and put android on in order to take advantage of its functionality. The actual coding appears to be extremely easy.
I can see google or the community releasing a "shell" of Android.
The more people with it the more money for them. If you watched the video they are really trying to push the location based services from GPS, cell towers, IP address... can anyone say more cash for ads.
I wouldn't mind having it on WM and its open source so there a good chance we will see it.
Alpine would be perfect for Android
Alpine would be a perfect phone if recycled with android !!
Good processor, lots of mem and a big screen for touch sensasions!!
Is it a dream or could that become reality?
Is Android compatible with HTC Touch-style hardware or does it require the numberpad?
There is a linux-2.6.23-android-m3-rc20.tar.gz kernel file on the android google code project site, there is also ADB utility - Android Debug Bridge (comes with SDK), it has an option of flashing a device (over usb) or an emulator (which is also included in the package)...the question is how to compile that kernel and make it run on our HTCs, and what kindof boot loader does it require? Maybe guys from Xanadux know better
It's also interesting how JAVA is being used after becoming open source, it appears that android is mostly independent from the JAVA API, the only relevance I found was only basic stuff like java.util, java.io and etc (included in the android.jar)...
i think that android will work on htc devices because pretty much they are the ones that will be releasing the first devices preloaded with android and i think that white device was made from htc. I see a potential here so i ask some one to make a thread on porting android to any or a specific device. good luck and may the force be with you.
ps. i hope its a htc wizard
I'd say we'd be waiting to see the HDK come out before we can put it on our own devices, can't wait though.
A dream
The Android SDK includes an emulator, see here http://www.ohadev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15
Quote: "It seems that the main binary is emulator; this includes a qemu-0.8.2, which runs (in system mode) the ARM kernel image at lib/images/kernel-qemu.
Two more images are mounted from lib/images : the system.img (which appears to be the rootfs, and userdata.img, which gets replicated (and mounted from there) at $HOME/.android/userdata.img."
This guy (http://mamaich.uni.cc/fr_pocket.htm) got Qemu compiled for ARM, buggy/crashing, no visible update for several years, see also here http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/in...e_to_running_ms_dos_8_12&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Question: Anyone have any more recent news/experiences about Qemu on ARM/HTC?
So, theoretically one could try running the Android Kernel image from the SDK emulator on Qemu on PocketPC.
Even if it works (highly unlikely), this megasandwich AndroidImage->Qemu->PocketPC would probably be fantastically slow, with dodgy/absent I/O support.
Real solution is to wait for a modifyable Kernel which can run natively on the HTC ARM processor.
Did not someone from google mentioned at the day of the release that android will run on any ARM9 based device?
dirac said:
Real solution is to wait for a modifyable Kernel which can run natively on the HTC ARM processor.
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Click to collapse
There is no such thing as "HTC ARM processor". All major ARM-based CPUs
are supported by Linux, it's the device drivers for external hardware that are
often missing because of the missing documentation.
cr2 said:
There is no such thing as "HTC ARM processor". All major ARM-based CPUs
are supported by Linux, it's the device drivers for external hardware that are
often missing because of the missing documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sure that HTC will release drivers for all their devices since they are partners in the Open Handset Alliance..
prodinho said:
Im sure that HTC will release drivers for all their devices since they are partners in the Open Handset Alliance..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are some doubts that the (future) drivers will be released as free software, and not some binary blobs like nvidia, ati and m-systems did it in the past.
Binary linux kernel drivers are evil
Check it out:
HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers
Is this real? I know it is only a software/driver fix, but it is better than not...
rumors, rumors and more rumors.
There are countless rumors for and against this claim. No one here knows for sure.
It looks to me like this thread will be yet another source of baseless rumors...
EDIT: Ah, that was supposed to be a link. Perhaps post the correct link to the article you are referring to, and we can discuss that. Right now, the link is http://HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers, which is obviously not a proper URL.
Dishe said:
rumors, rumors and more rumors.
There are countless rumors for and against this claim. No one here knows for sure.
It looks to me like this thread will be yet another source of baseless rumors...
EDIT: Ah, that was supposed to be a link. Perhaps post the correct link to the article you are referring to, and we can discuss that. Right now, the link is http://HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers, which is obviously not a proper URL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fixed... Here is the meat:
Some of our top engineers have investigated video performance on our devices and have discovered a fix that they claim will dramatically improve performance for common on-screen tasks like scrolling and the like. Their fix would help most of our recent touch-screen products including the Touch family of devices and TYTN II / Tilt, Mogul / XV6900. The update is in testing and we hope to release it soon. However this fix is not a new video driver to utilize hardware acceleration; it is a software optimization. Video drivers are a much more complicated issue that involves companies and engineers beyond HTC alone. We do not want to lead anyone to believe they should expect these. To explain why we are not releasing video acceleration instead of the optimization I offer you our official statement... "HTC DOES plan to offer software upgrades that will increase feature functionality, over the air wireless speeds and other enhancements for some of the phones being criticized, but we do not anticipate including any additional support for the video acceleration issues cited in customer complaints. It is important for customers to understand that bringing this functionality to market is not a trivial driver update and requires extensive software development and time. HTC will utilize hardware video acceleration like the ATI Imageon in many upcoming products. Our users have made it clear that they expect our products to offer an improved visual experience, and we have included this feedback into planning and development of future products. To address lingering questions about HTC's current MSM 7xxx devices, it is important to establish that a chipset like an MSM7xxx is a platform with a vast multitude of features that enable a wide range of devices with varied functionality. It is common that devices built on platforms like Qualcomm's will not enable every feature or function. In addition to making sure the required hardware is present, unlocking extended capabilities of chipsets like the MSM 7xxx requires in-depth and time consuming software development, complicated licensing negotiations, potential intellectual property negotiations, added licensing fees, and in the case of devices that are sold through operators, the desire of the operator to include the additional functionality. To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."
I was at this conference. Take a look at what is inside the Mogul, Vogue, etc (aka Convergennce platform) chipset: (The second half talks about the graphics capabilities)
http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/events/brew_2005/t202_ligon_qualcomm.pdf
It is difficult to be angy at HTC, as just about every HW vendor does this: The retail channels and the manufacturers want product diversity, but Qualcomm can't design all that many chips (a full chip design is expenive), nor can they build a wide diversity of fab plants so they just disable parts or leave out drivers.
The question that no one can answer due to NDA's is who exactly is holding them back? I.e. it may be that Qualcomm didn't license the accelerator for this part from ATI or that HTC didn't license the rights to from Qualcomm.
Either way, a gdi/direct draw driver for the basics is not a massive undertaking. We aren't asking for DirectX 10 suport.
awandkk said:
To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is the thing.... when I looked at what specs were available to me when I bought my Mogul, they looked better than my Wing. I expected better video performance than a 2 year old phone. What they said sounds like back peddling.
Sounds to me like all they are going to do is a quick software optimization which they will call a video fix, when in reality, it has nothing to do with the video hardware inside the device.
They are just releasing this and calling it a "video fix" to get all the people like us who want full functionality to shut the .... up about it.
We has given up?
cstyle226 said:
We has given up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely. One of those "believe it when you see it".
that pdf is such a teaser so my phone is as powerful as ps2 and i cant use it thats just messed up and you know all the hardware their cause its integrated.This sucks cause i never play games cause they always play horrible. htc is so responsible for the iphone gui blowing away any other phones.
Hi guys. I'm sure this question's been asked many times before:
The non TV-out "problem", is it because of the lack of hardware, or software?
No one knows?
No, there is no TV out port on this device. Google "HTC Athena" and look at its picture to see how a TV-out look like.
Cheers.
Apparently it does but needs the appropriate Qualcomm driver to enable it. And HTC weren't prepared to licence it (along with video acceleration) - allegedly!
No, the Touch HD does NOT have HARDWARE support for TV-Out.
This has confirmed previously by HTC, quoted somewhere here on the forums.
TV-Out is not gonna happen for the Touch HD!
Ruudfood said:
Apparently it does but needs the appropriate Qualcomm driver to enable it. And HTC weren't prepared to licence it (along with video acceleration) - allegedly!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are two unrelated matters, I think. You don't need the driver to enable it. Athena does not have the driver, but has the TV out.
Hello all, Windows Mobile 7 is announced to be available this year. It seems that it will be a lot more "finger friendly". The Touch HD would fit it very well.
In fact, I'm currently a Kaiser owner, and I planned to buy a Touch HD but I'm a bit disapointed (as always with HTC !!!) about its graphical performances.
Touch HD owners still need to convert video files for the Touch HD to read them at a good speed ... A shame !!!! I had an Axim x50v 4 years ago which was able to read any VGA DivX without any convertion and it was really fast, no lags.
So I can deal with the bad video performances (I already do with my Kaiser ...) but I need a major change in the general usage of the device compared to my Kaiser.
That's why I would be glad to see Windows Mobile 7 announced for the Touch HD, it may be the thing which would decide me to buy a Touch HD.
Does anyone know if HTC plan to upgrade the Touch HD with Windows Mobile 7 when it will be available ?
Thanks !
Windows 7?
Where? I thought was delayed for 2010 and that they will release soon windows 6.5... Did I miss something
In fact Windows Mobile 8 was delayed for 2010 (and maybe later !). What I read so far is that Windows Mobile 7 should be available in the middle of 2009.
EDIT : New news -> you're right, wm 6.5 announced to come before 7 ... 7 delayed for 2010 ...
dizzy33 said:
In fact Windows Mobile 8 was delayed for 2010 (and maybe later !). What I read so far is that Windows Mobile 7 should be available in the middle of 2009.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what you read is incorrect. WM7 is for 2010, Q4 of 2009 at the EARLIEST. and to your original question. WM7 may require a different set of hardware to be completely finger friendly, ie no more resistive touch screen. but that's not to say people here can't hack it and port it to a legacy product (ie. touch HD) by the time WM7 comes out
About the date for WM 7, take a look at my EDIT section in my previous post ...
I've already noticed it changed, but thanks anyway ...
About the hardware, I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor ... So they may do their best for this O.S. to be compatible with old style hardware ...
So now the question is : will HTC offer a WM 6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD ... Not sure cause it may be there too late ...
Hm, i think the 6.5 will be published in Spring/Summer 09, so it could be possible.
Greets
John
i think htc will offer a update cause t-mobile will release the HD with android so they have to do sth for satisfy the customers with win mobile
kerni said:
i think htc will offer a update cause t-mobile will release the HD with android so they have to do sth for satisfy the customers with win mobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did u see this.
And sorry to take the air out your balloon
Turb0wned said:
Where did u see this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fact:
He totaly made that up, there have been some renderings of what the G2 MAY look like and many people took it upon themselves to photoshop The Beast running the Android OS. Don't get your hopes up.
(My) Sepculation:
You'll probably see the G1 come out with 5 more colors, and 10 more OTAs before you ever find out what a G2 looks like.
Sources:
http://twitter.com/htc/statuses/948774282
Not to mention that HTC specifically said that they did not manufacture the Black Stone with a radio module supporting the US 3G frequencies. So I doubt T-Mobile would Market any device going foward as running on G2/Edge
I hope you find this helpful (And sorry to take the air out your balloon)
dizzy33 said:
I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm. Camera tracking applications kill the battery _very_ quickly and obviously don't work in bad light conditions or against blank surfaces with no pattern.
The HD has a g-sensor anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue.
i've also read on numerous websites that theres the chance that t-mobile may be running android on touch HD.
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
dizzy33 said:
About the date for WM 7, take a look at my EDIT section in my previous post ...
I've already noticed it changed, but thanks anyway ...
About the hardware, I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor ... So they may do their best for this O.S. to be compatible with old style hardware ...
So now the question is : will HTC offer a WM 6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD ... Not sure cause it may be there too late ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the time stamp sais your last edit was after my post. but regarding the hardware difference: microsoft never specifies the HW requirement to end customers because we don't get to purchase the OS. they do specify to the manufactures of the phones. it's the same reason why your PC hardware requirement changes for Windows 2000 and Windows Vista. I'm sure you can some what run Vista on a machine built for Win 2K, but your experience will be limited. So I was just saying that some hackers here can port the WM7 to Touch HD, even though Touch HD is not designated to run WM7.
Requirement wise, I am _speculating_ that it will need a better CPU/graphics chip, amongst other things. the current Qualcomm chip 's graphic capability just plain sucks, the CPU power also isn't the best. Horse power by horsepower, a Qualcomm 500 MHz is much slower than a Marvel/Intel PXA 500 Mhz. I believe WM7 will have more graphics requirement: here's my logic:
- Up till WM6.1 (possibly 6.5), the max resolution supported is 800x480 (which is ok), but he color depth is only 65000, which is low. Iphone supports 262000, i'm sure MS will be going after at least that.
- ever since phones/PDA moved form QVGA to VGA and WVGA, the graphics suffered, and understandbly so. though not microsoft's fault directly. people started saying "my WM phone/PDA is slow" and put the blame on MS. So MS will be clearing their name and restricting manufactures from putting their OS on a non-suitable device
so the above two points just to show you in the graphics department there may be a HW requirement. can you run it on a phone that doesn't fit the requirement? suuuuure, just that the experience won't be as good.
and finally, the news yesterday confirmed my suspicious is that HTC just dumped Qualcomm (not 100% dump though) as the sole CPU/chip provider due to their performance. Given that a product stays in incubation (for prototyping QA, testing, beta, etc etc) for 6 to 8 month before it hits the market. I believe HTC is prototyping the new devices with WM6.5 and perhaps even WM7, and found the performance with Qualcomm chip lacking. hence hardware requirement.
Site your sources.
adsno_1 said:
i've also read on numerous websites that theres the chance that t-mobile may be running android on touch HD.
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mean to be rude, but what part don't you understand that the the Touch HD has hardware limitation not allowing it to take advantage of US 3G frequencies
If you read my previous post you'll see an official announcement from HTC themselves supporting my comment.
The HTC will not see the light of day in the United States, In the US there are 2 GSM Carriers ATT and T-Mobile
ATT won't relesase because it directly competes (and probably breeches) their contract with Apple
And, when was the last time you seen T-Mobile release a beefy smartphone, the smartest phone they have is the Wing, and that's a joke in terms of Harware.
Site your sources before you make such claims sir.
adsno_1 said:
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That comment is a joke, where are you sources.
I guess there are a lot of Wishful thinkers on this thread.
fnordelus said:
I don't mean to be rude, but what part don't you understand that the the Touch HD has hardware limitation not allowing it to take advantage of US 3G frequencies
And, when was the last time you seen T-Mobile release a beefy smartphone, the smartest phone they have is the Wing, and that's a joke in terms of Harware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
Schooleydoo said:
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely right, that's my bad!
I actually did forget that T-Mobile is outside of the US, please excuse my stroke of ignorance.
I feel extra stupid because I actually have a German-T-Mobile Branded MDA Pro that I had to replace the keyboard for (to a qwerty keybord)
Me <---- Fail!
Schooleydoo said:
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aditionally, you're double right!
Becuase T-Mobile UK does have a history of releasing beefy smarthphones, I just got my ass handed to me.
When it comes to mobile devices (my passion) it SUCKS to be an American.
Everytime I wip out my BlackStone, or even my XDA iis I get some ****-head who says "is that an iPhone?" or even worse "Is that an iPhone imitation?"
So, again, excuse my stroke of ignorance.
fnordelus said:
Everytime I wip out my BlackStone, or even my XDA iis I get some ****-head who says "is that an iPhone?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHA oh man I get the same thing all the time!
The annoying thing is it's surprisingly hard to say "HTC Touch HD" properly coherantly without sounding weird due to the cacophony of hard syllables!
Something interesting to note about WiMo 6.5 and the Touch HD is in reference to Pocket Internet Explorer 6. Microsoft have stated that their new mobile browser won't be released for use on any device due to hardware limitations of current devices - but there HAS been a ROM released by a microsoft developer for the Touch HD ONLY that DOES include the new Pocket IE...
My theory is that 6.5 will be held by microsoft for use on higher spec future handsets only, but the Touch HD will be allowed a possibly semi-official update. (maybe in the guise of a ROM by a microsoft developer like PIE6)
Something else to bear in mind, the Hermes was in mid life cycle when WiMo6 was released and HTC duly released a free upgrade from the pre-existing version 5 so there's a possibility they might do something similar for the HD.
All speculation and hope of course...
Here are some images of what WM7 might look like. Check out the Word 2007 picture. It looks like it has a lot of menu options.
http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/07/windows-mobile-7-images-leaked/
does the gpu of hd2 is powerful enough to handle directx 9 announced as requirement for wp7
I was wondering the same thing the other day and couldn't find any official spec sheets. I asked over in one of the threads in the WP7s forums and I got the idea that OpenGL ES 2.0 was supported, which was 'basically the same.'
does any one know any useful info
http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/brew_2007/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf
See page 15 for the best tech specs I've seen on the snapdragon / z430 / ATI LT. Still very light on details but claims direct3d sm3 support.
For that specific chipset (MSM7850) they claim DX9 support on page 31.
Their old chip (7500) supports DX7.
Since that was 2007, we can presume they've maintained similar compatibility in their newer (8250) chipset, yes?
Missed that bit, now all we need is a driver </sarcasm> for the humour impaired.
[sarcasm]obviously MS is aiming really high this time..
DX9 compatible portable devices, that use huge amounts of power so they can do what?
render a load of bloody text!
whoopppeee !
[/sarcasm]
so tje final answer is that hd2 gpu is enough for directx 9 or what?
The only correct answer to anything around here is, that noone knows nothing at all!
We can't run DX9 on WMPS7 so what ever?!
Before everyone freaks out, about fckn WMPS7, why not wait until you really see something?
Actually all the previews by microsoft were pretty ****ty! The phones worked pretty slow, I dont like that "hub" thing, and they are limited to the ground!
Thats what I would call "YaI" -> Yet another Iphone...
I'm loving WM6 and the only OS I'll be switching to, if WM6 dies (what i dont think, cuz there are more programmers who like WM6) will be android, but not another limited bull**** os
VisualD said:
http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/brew_2007/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf
See page 15 for the best tech specs I've seen on the snapdragon / z430 / ATI LT. Still very light on details but claims direct3d sm3 support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after reading i think it supports it