Database Users

is this true ??HTCClassAction.org

Hi
I have read this http://htcclassaction.org/
If this is true???

It is true

there is no way to fix it with a cooked rom? or maybe with a cooked rom wm6.1??

I've just done a test with the Touch Dual against a Asus P526....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOS7tE3AZM

gears said:
I've just done a test with the Touch Dual against a Asus P526....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOS7tE3AZM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really disappointed!

So this is the cause for choppy graphics when using things like PocketCM and S2U2?

mini_man said:
So this is the cause for choppy graphics when using things like PocketCM and S2U2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes
I really hope HTC does something about this.

Same.
It's a bit pathetic really.

I was just about to buy this device next week, but knowing this I'm nor that sure anymore. I really hope they fix it, and (from the looks of HTCClassAction) they will

Is this because of the graphics accelerator? I thought htc were going to make a fix?

Uh. Impressive. What the hell's wrong with HTC? Being the "biggest" is good enough, so they don't give a ****?
A partial reason for me to buy the dual instead of the original Touch was because I wanted optimal ****** performance, and then it turns out that we've been royally ****** probably because they want to save money?

I have a stupid question ... possible some guys have ask it in the Kaiser Related Threads ... have some guys look around for other device, they use Qualcomm Chipsets? Possible they works with HTC?
I Think Qualcomm is Evil too ...

NetrunnerAT said:
I have a stupid question ... possible some guys have ask it in the Kaiser Related Threads ... have some guys look around for other device, they use Qualcomm Chipsets? Possible they works with HTC?
I Think Qualcomm is Evil too ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it has nothing to do with qualcomm, phones from other manufacturers that use the same chipset work perfectly, the only problem here is HTC's collective laziness in writing a fully functioning driver

Midget_1990 said:
it has nothing to do with qualcomm, phones from other manufacturers that use the same chipset work perfectly, the only problem here is HTC's collective laziness in writing a fully functioning driver
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah.. I think ASUS P525 uses qualcomm but it functions perfectly.
HTC has been getting away with this since the TyTN... so now they've been doing it on all of their succeeding devices.

Update on htclassaction.org:
Update January 20, 2008: One person reported HTC support telling him an update would be released within a week. Let's wait and see!
Update January 20, 2008 #2: Another report has come on from that HTC support has said an update will be released January 28, no further details.
Update January 20, 2008 #3: One HTC support employee has stated that he guarantees they are working on fix for the video issues. It is unclear if by video issues only video playback is meant or the complete video driver package.
Another thread on Kaiser:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=359534

NICE! Too bad I was unaware of all these problems when I got my Touch Dual :\ it really is slow!

I also astonished how slow my Touch Dual is. I cannot believe that it takes to open a over 50 seconds to open 56 kb Word document. My Loox 720 PDA can open the same document in around less than 2 seconds. It certainly is not due to lack of free memory.
Word mobile is a business essential, not a multimedia toything and it should be capable of opening small documents quickly. The Loox is running WM2003SE and uses Pocket Word in which format the document is 115 kb. Is Word 6.1 slower than Pocket Word?

According to The Boy Genius Report, HTC isn't terribly interested in fixing the issue. This is the first response that has had any hint of officialness about it and it's not encouraging in the least.
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/01/22/htcs-official-response-to-drivergate-buzz-off/

HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers

Check it out:
HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers
Is this real? I know it is only a software/driver fix, but it is better than not...

rumors, rumors and more rumors.
There are countless rumors for and against this claim. No one here knows for sure.
It looks to me like this thread will be yet another source of baseless rumors...
EDIT: Ah, that was supposed to be a link. Perhaps post the correct link to the article you are referring to, and we can discuss that. Right now, the link is http://HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers, which is obviously not a proper URL.

Dishe said:
rumors, rumors and more rumors.
There are countless rumors for and against this claim. No one here knows for sure.
It looks to me like this thread will be yet another source of baseless rumors...
EDIT: Ah, that was supposed to be a link. Perhaps post the correct link to the article you are referring to, and we can discuss that. Right now, the link is http://HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers, which is obviously not a proper URL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fixed... Here is the meat:
Some of our top engineers have investigated video performance on our devices and have discovered a fix that they claim will dramatically improve performance for common on-screen tasks like scrolling and the like. Their fix would help most of our recent touch-screen products including the Touch family of devices and TYTN II / Tilt, Mogul / XV6900. The update is in testing and we hope to release it soon. However this fix is not a new video driver to utilize hardware acceleration; it is a software optimization. Video drivers are a much more complicated issue that involves companies and engineers beyond HTC alone. We do not want to lead anyone to believe they should expect these. To explain why we are not releasing video acceleration instead of the optimization I offer you our official statement... "HTC DOES plan to offer software upgrades that will increase feature functionality, over the air wireless speeds and other enhancements for some of the phones being criticized, but we do not anticipate including any additional support for the video acceleration issues cited in customer complaints. It is important for customers to understand that bringing this functionality to market is not a trivial driver update and requires extensive software development and time. HTC will utilize hardware video acceleration like the ATI Imageon in many upcoming products. Our users have made it clear that they expect our products to offer an improved visual experience, and we have included this feedback into planning and development of future products. To address lingering questions about HTC's current MSM 7xxx devices, it is important to establish that a chipset like an MSM7xxx is a platform with a vast multitude of features that enable a wide range of devices with varied functionality. It is common that devices built on platforms like Qualcomm's will not enable every feature or function. In addition to making sure the required hardware is present, unlocking extended capabilities of chipsets like the MSM 7xxx requires in-depth and time consuming software development, complicated licensing negotiations, potential intellectual property negotiations, added licensing fees, and in the case of devices that are sold through operators, the desire of the operator to include the additional functionality. To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."

I was at this conference. Take a look at what is inside the Mogul, Vogue, etc (aka Convergennce platform) chipset: (The second half talks about the graphics capabilities)
http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/events/brew_2005/t202_ligon_qualcomm.pdf
It is difficult to be angy at HTC, as just about every HW vendor does this: The retail channels and the manufacturers want product diversity, but Qualcomm can't design all that many chips (a full chip design is expenive), nor can they build a wide diversity of fab plants so they just disable parts or leave out drivers.
The question that no one can answer due to NDA's is who exactly is holding them back? I.e. it may be that Qualcomm didn't license the accelerator for this part from ATI or that HTC didn't license the rights to from Qualcomm.
Either way, a gdi/direct draw driver for the basics is not a massive undertaking. We aren't asking for DirectX 10 suport.

awandkk said:
To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is the thing.... when I looked at what specs were available to me when I bought my Mogul, they looked better than my Wing. I expected better video performance than a 2 year old phone. What they said sounds like back peddling.

Sounds to me like all they are going to do is a quick software optimization which they will call a video fix, when in reality, it has nothing to do with the video hardware inside the device.
They are just releasing this and calling it a "video fix" to get all the people like us who want full functionality to shut the .... up about it.

We has given up?

cstyle226 said:
We has given up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely. One of those "believe it when you see it".

that pdf is such a teaser so my phone is as powerful as ps2 and i cant use it thats just messed up and you know all the hardware their cause its integrated.This sucks cause i never play games cause they always play horrible. htc is so responsible for the iphone gui blowing away any other phones.

Windows Mobile 7 announced for the HD ?

Hello all, Windows Mobile 7 is announced to be available this year. It seems that it will be a lot more "finger friendly". The Touch HD would fit it very well.
In fact, I'm currently a Kaiser owner, and I planned to buy a Touch HD but I'm a bit disapointed (as always with HTC !!!) about its graphical performances.
Touch HD owners still need to convert video files for the Touch HD to read them at a good speed ... A shame !!!! I had an Axim x50v 4 years ago which was able to read any VGA DivX without any convertion and it was really fast, no lags.
So I can deal with the bad video performances (I already do with my Kaiser ...) but I need a major change in the general usage of the device compared to my Kaiser.
That's why I would be glad to see Windows Mobile 7 announced for the Touch HD, it may be the thing which would decide me to buy a Touch HD.
Does anyone know if HTC plan to upgrade the Touch HD with Windows Mobile 7 when it will be available ?
Thanks !

Windows 7?
Where? I thought was delayed for 2010 and that they will release soon windows 6.5... Did I miss something

In fact Windows Mobile 8 was delayed for 2010 (and maybe later !). What I read so far is that Windows Mobile 7 should be available in the middle of 2009.
EDIT : New news -> you're right, wm 6.5 announced to come before 7 ... 7 delayed for 2010 ...

dizzy33 said:
In fact Windows Mobile 8 was delayed for 2010 (and maybe later !). What I read so far is that Windows Mobile 7 should be available in the middle of 2009.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what you read is incorrect. WM7 is for 2010, Q4 of 2009 at the EARLIEST. and to your original question. WM7 may require a different set of hardware to be completely finger friendly, ie no more resistive touch screen. but that's not to say people here can't hack it and port it to a legacy product (ie. touch HD) by the time WM7 comes out

About the date for WM 7, take a look at my EDIT section in my previous post ...
I've already noticed it changed, but thanks anyway ...
About the hardware, I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor ... So they may do their best for this O.S. to be compatible with old style hardware ...
So now the question is : will HTC offer a WM 6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD ... Not sure cause it may be there too late ...

Hm, i think the 6.5 will be published in Spring/Summer 09, so it could be possible.
Greets
John

i think htc will offer a update cause t-mobile will release the HD with android so they have to do sth for satisfy the customers with win mobile

kerni said:
i think htc will offer a update cause t-mobile will release the HD with android so they have to do sth for satisfy the customers with win mobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did u see this.

And sorry to take the air out your balloon
Turb0wned said:
Where did u see this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fact:
He totaly made that up, there have been some renderings of what the G2 MAY look like and many people took it upon themselves to photoshop The Beast running the Android OS. Don't get your hopes up.
(My) Sepculation:
You'll probably see the G1 come out with 5 more colors, and 10 more OTAs before you ever find out what a G2 looks like.
Sources:
http://twitter.com/htc/statuses/948774282
Not to mention that HTC specifically said that they did not manufacture the Black Stone with a radio module supporting the US 3G frequencies. So I doubt T-Mobile would Market any device going foward as running on G2/Edge
I hope you find this helpful (And sorry to take the air out your balloon)

dizzy33 said:
I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm. Camera tracking applications kill the battery _very_ quickly and obviously don't work in bad light conditions or against blank surfaces with no pattern.
The HD has a g-sensor anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue.

i've also read on numerous websites that theres the chance that t-mobile may be running android on touch HD.
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months

dizzy33 said:
About the date for WM 7, take a look at my EDIT section in my previous post ...
I've already noticed it changed, but thanks anyway ...
About the hardware, I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor ... So they may do their best for this O.S. to be compatible with old style hardware ...
So now the question is : will HTC offer a WM 6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD ... Not sure cause it may be there too late ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the time stamp sais your last edit was after my post. but regarding the hardware difference: microsoft never specifies the HW requirement to end customers because we don't get to purchase the OS. they do specify to the manufactures of the phones. it's the same reason why your PC hardware requirement changes for Windows 2000 and Windows Vista. I'm sure you can some what run Vista on a machine built for Win 2K, but your experience will be limited. So I was just saying that some hackers here can port the WM7 to Touch HD, even though Touch HD is not designated to run WM7.
Requirement wise, I am _speculating_ that it will need a better CPU/graphics chip, amongst other things. the current Qualcomm chip 's graphic capability just plain sucks, the CPU power also isn't the best. Horse power by horsepower, a Qualcomm 500 MHz is much slower than a Marvel/Intel PXA 500 Mhz. I believe WM7 will have more graphics requirement: here's my logic:
- Up till WM6.1 (possibly 6.5), the max resolution supported is 800x480 (which is ok), but he color depth is only 65000, which is low. Iphone supports 262000, i'm sure MS will be going after at least that.
- ever since phones/PDA moved form QVGA to VGA and WVGA, the graphics suffered, and understandbly so. though not microsoft's fault directly. people started saying "my WM phone/PDA is slow" and put the blame on MS. So MS will be clearing their name and restricting manufactures from putting their OS on a non-suitable device
so the above two points just to show you in the graphics department there may be a HW requirement. can you run it on a phone that doesn't fit the requirement? suuuuure, just that the experience won't be as good.
and finally, the news yesterday confirmed my suspicious is that HTC just dumped Qualcomm (not 100% dump though) as the sole CPU/chip provider due to their performance. Given that a product stays in incubation (for prototyping QA, testing, beta, etc etc) for 6 to 8 month before it hits the market. I believe HTC is prototyping the new devices with WM6.5 and perhaps even WM7, and found the performance with Qualcomm chip lacking. hence hardware requirement.

Site your sources.
adsno_1 said:
i've also read on numerous websites that theres the chance that t-mobile may be running android on touch HD.
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mean to be rude, but what part don't you understand that the the Touch HD has hardware limitation not allowing it to take advantage of US 3G frequencies
If you read my previous post you'll see an official announcement from HTC themselves supporting my comment.
The HTC will not see the light of day in the United States, In the US there are 2 GSM Carriers ATT and T-Mobile
ATT won't relesase because it directly competes (and probably breeches) their contract with Apple
And, when was the last time you seen T-Mobile release a beefy smartphone, the smartest phone they have is the Wing, and that's a joke in terms of Harware.
Site your sources before you make such claims sir.

adsno_1 said:
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That comment is a joke, where are you sources.

I guess there are a lot of Wishful thinkers on this thread.

fnordelus said:
I don't mean to be rude, but what part don't you understand that the the Touch HD has hardware limitation not allowing it to take advantage of US 3G frequencies
And, when was the last time you seen T-Mobile release a beefy smartphone, the smartest phone they have is the Wing, and that's a joke in terms of Harware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/

Schooleydoo said:
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely right, that's my bad!
I actually did forget that T-Mobile is outside of the US, please excuse my stroke of ignorance.
I feel extra stupid because I actually have a German-T-Mobile Branded MDA Pro that I had to replace the keyboard for (to a qwerty keybord)
Me <---- Fail!

Schooleydoo said:
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aditionally, you're double right!
Becuase T-Mobile UK does have a history of releasing beefy smarthphones, I just got my ass handed to me.
When it comes to mobile devices (my passion) it SUCKS to be an American.
Everytime I wip out my BlackStone, or even my XDA iis I get some ****-head who says "is that an iPhone?" or even worse "Is that an iPhone imitation?"
So, again, excuse my stroke of ignorance.

fnordelus said:
Everytime I wip out my BlackStone, or even my XDA iis I get some ****-head who says "is that an iPhone?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHA oh man I get the same thing all the time!
The annoying thing is it's surprisingly hard to say "HTC Touch HD" properly coherantly without sounding weird due to the cacophony of hard syllables!
Something interesting to note about WiMo 6.5 and the Touch HD is in reference to Pocket Internet Explorer 6. Microsoft have stated that their new mobile browser won't be released for use on any device due to hardware limitations of current devices - but there HAS been a ROM released by a microsoft developer for the Touch HD ONLY that DOES include the new Pocket IE...
My theory is that 6.5 will be held by microsoft for use on higher spec future handsets only, but the Touch HD will be allowed a possibly semi-official update. (maybe in the guise of a ROM by a microsoft developer like PIE6)
Something else to bear in mind, the Hermes was in mid life cycle when WiMo6 was released and HTC duly released a free upgrade from the pre-existing version 5 so there's a possibility they might do something similar for the HD.
All speculation and hope of course...

Here are some images of what WM7 might look like. Check out the Word 2007 picture. It looks like it has a lot of menu options.
http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/07/windows-mobile-7-images-leaked/

HD2: USB Host + TV Out

Originally the USB Host and TV Out was announced, but in latest official spec is missing.
Is there a chance that both features will be available later (after some patch)?
I believe that such modern chipset supports both. I can't understand why HD2 should be missing TV Out while older devices have it. HD2 is designed for multimedia, isn't it???

JirkaToksa said:
I can't understand why HD2 should be missing TV Out while older devices have it. HD2 is designed for multimedia, isn't it???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, AFAIK HTC does not license the complete chipset with all funtionality from qualcomm, because that would be too expensive. They just license functions. Anf if they don't license these capabilities, it wouldn't be surprising if certain (even older) HTC phones support a function, that other phones don't support.
I think that is the major point why some time ago some phones didn't support 3D acceleration and htcclassaction.org was launched.

JirkaToksa said:
Originally the USB Host and TV Out was announced, but in latest official spec is missing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear this a lot, but nobody can also show a source where HTC announced that it would have this, just random speculation from a clueless forum user or two.
I don't believe it to be true, but am open to being proved wrong.

HTC never announced those both functions for the HD2, it was only rumours, spec leaks and a beta-tester's confirmation (for usb-host that is, while i think he misunderstood the point of usb-host..).

i played around in the registry earlier today and found a TV-out option, but also keys named rhodium, so it seems its all messed up

Snapdragon hardware multimedia support, possible?

Hi!
I've been trying to find any documentation on Snapdragon's DSP and hardware based video and audio decoders. So far, nothing. I'm just thinking if it would be possible to cook the support into custom ROM as it is quite ridiculous that decoding something like MP3 or AAC takes any CPU time at all, as according to Qualcomm's web site Snapdragon has hardware support for decoding MP3, AAC and H.264. I take it Qualcomm only provides the documentation to partners, as it is impossible to find?
Hopefully full support for hardware acceleration comes with WM7, if it can not implemented on 6.5. Should be doable with custom driver (in kernel mode) anyway by cooking, provided the documentation is leaked or something.
Mikko.

It's not possible to have the SnapDragon documentation because Qualcomm will never release it.
It's possible instead to have the missing SnapDragon drivers for Linux or I hope for Windows CE only when a QSD based smartbook that will have these drivers will be out.
With Windows Mobile 7 it's a whole new story, new CE7 kernel and support for all the new ARM instructions. I hope that we'll get that things and soon

kholk said:
It's not possible to have the SnapDragon documentation because Qualcomm will never release it.
It's possible instead to have the missing SnapDragon drivers for Linux or I hope for Windows CE only when a QSD based smartbook that will have these drivers will be out.
With Windows Mobile 7 it's a whole new story, new CE7 kernel and support for all the new ARM instructions. I hope that we'll get that things and soon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a waste of potential, but we can only wait (or not? )

you Cant really expect qualcomm to release documents on its IP.
but it would be nice if they and htc worked together to release a dev sdk.
if they are serious about developing the platform then its a step they really do need to make.
if samsung can get a sdk out for the omnia ii then it seems sensible to think htc need to play catchup.. the chipset does have potential,and it appears qualcomm are becoming more dev friendly.
look at what southend have achieved with some decent support from QC..

documentation?
Qualcomm should be giving documentation to ISVs its just a matter of it falling in the wrong(or right) hands. In the meantime, Snapdragon uses ARM Cortex-A9 core and you can find more details here:
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARMCortex-A9_MPCore.html
Not sure if that includes DSP.

My acer s200 has support for H.263, H.264 out the box =]

Ca5c4d3 said:
Qualcomm should be giving documentation to ISVs its just a matter of it falling in the wrong(or right) hands. In the meantime, Snapdragon uses ARM Cortex-A9 core and you can find more details here:
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARMCortex-A9_MPCore.html
Not sure if that includes DSP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Snapdragon is Cortex A8 based and yes it does have DSP

mightymn said:
Snapdragon is Cortex A8 based and yes it does have DSP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know are the hardware multimedia decoders really silicon or SIMD/DSP based? From the QC's documentation you get the feeling they are ASIC stuff, but it might be marketing and in reality they are IP cores.
Mikko.

mikolas said:
Do you know are the hardware multimedia decoders really silicon or SIMD/DSP based? From the QC's documentation you get the feeling they are ASIC stuff, but it might be marketing and in reality they are IP cores.
Mikko.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, don't know that