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I've read somewhere that the screen used in the HD/Blackstone actually is dual touch capabel.. anyone that nows for sertain`?
My understanding is that in a hardware sence it will work but nothing is programmed for it, im not even sure if the drivers for it are enabled to do it.
Ok, but if the hardware is capable, then it should be possible for some clever minds to make propper modifications to whatever programs that could make use of dual touch.. ?
Any one up for a cool task?
I'm afraid this will be futile. The screen is resistive not capacitive. I'm not an expert, though.
Dual touch is out of the window now since APPLE has patented this technology i believe...
Resistive screens can support multi touch, there is a program on the diamond that proves this. Windows 7 (thats windows 7 not windows mobile 7) supports multitouch so its not apple only.
touch hd is not multi touch
Hmmm, the screen on the HD is resistive. The hardware drivers for this normally produce only a single set of x/y data. Technically it is possible on a resistive screen to produce multi-touch coordinates. BUT, it depends on the hardware implementation.
It is most unlikely that HTC have built-in multi-touch.
My understanding of the Diamond and Touch Pro multi-touch experiments is that they are using the two screen segments (vga and the bottom button segment).
the problem is nobody knows, apparently the device can display more than 65k colours, but until the software catches up to match we will never see it.
you can simulate a dual touch behaviour on every single touch screen.
Actually, when you touch the screen on a point, keep your finger on it, touch a second point with you second finger : from the windows dirver side, windows sees a mouse/pointer coordinate that gives the position of the center of the line segment between your both fingers.
For instance:
Put the first finger on the upper left corner, after that, put your second finger on the center .... Windows mouse event will return a "jump" at the position corresponding to a position at the upper-left of the center, between your both finger. So a piece of software could supposed that a second finger is on the screen. If you don't move your first finger, but just the second one, windows mouse/touch driver will report you the move corresponding to the half second finger move.
I saw a video on youtube about multitouch simulation ... and if you see them, you will notice that the first finger doesn't move. So i suppose that they use the method i had exposed above.
xtac said:
Dual touch is out of the window now since APPLE has patented this technology i believe...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neither dual nor multi touch is pattented by apple (those patents actually belong to microsoft, as they developed the technology; as i was told by Microsoft developers/recruiters a couple months back), what apple just got patents for (simply to try and swindle money out of other companies later) are the gestures for the UI. Although the multi touch might be/probably is possible on the HD (as the diamond supports it) on the hardware level, developing the software would be difficult and I'd expect no help on part of HTC (as it would be unlikely for any company, especially one that produces so many phones, to go back and practically reinvent the UI on an existing phone). So although the possibility is most likely there, it would be highly unlikely that we'll ever see it. (Though a multi touch Android running on the HD with the right drivers would be nice)
the diamond has multitouch capability on the capacitive area below the screen, unfortunately the HD doesnt.
Im sure one day windows mobile will have Multitouch, we just have to see how how it plays out between Palm and Apple because palm uses the same gesture (pinch) which Apple apparently has a patent to.
If apple does bring forward a lawsuit and fails then we may well see multitouch on windows mobile very soon, but if apple wins: too bad for us.
My 2 cents:
I do not like dual touch!
I like to hold my HD in my palm and use my thumb to operate it. That way I only need one hand to use it. I love the photos program that allows you to zoom in and zoom out by circling something on the screen. I wish the browser and ALL other applictions supported this!
Everdog said:
My 2 cents:
I do not like dual touch!
I like to hold my HD in my palm and use my thumb to operate it. That way I only need one hand to use it. I love the photos program that allows you to zoom in and zoom out by circling something on the screen. I wish the browser and ALL other applictions supported this!
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Click to collapse
I second that! (though texting/internet/video in landscape is also nice)
In some programs such as Microsoft word, if you move your finger on the screen, the screen will move up/down. But if you move your nail or stylus on the screen, the text will be selected.
How does HD distinguish between finger tip and stylus? I think it is a function of dual touch tool.
ok.. it recognizes the area of pressure unlike the light sensors to detect the position on capacitive screens(iphone).
HD cant recognize more than 1 touch because area of pressures moves in middle of 2 fingers.
in reply to monolithHD, HD can differentiate size of pressure and operate events accordingly,
for example using slylus is more difficult to scroll trough list of All programs or contacts than your finger
i was hoping for the buttons area to be capacitive like in diamond and pro but unfortunately they are not.. i can operate those buttons from my stylus also. capacitive screens generally cant be operated by stylus.
eventually we will have lot of devices and application with multitouch and we will miss it even more because HD also doesn't have many hardware buttons.
anyway be happy with whatever you got.
Ok, to clarify a little here.. some say: Capasitiv screens DO support dual touch (like the iphone) Resistive screens DOES NOT support...
Well.. final question from me then.. Anyone tried the Android G1 HTC mobile?..Is that a capasitiv or resistive screen? Because G1 DOES in fact support dual touch...
Anyone?
When you run the Xperia fish panel on the Touch HD.
And you press the screen with both fingers. The fish will swim to the middle of where you're 2 fingers are located......
This also is the same on the Xperia. And the Xperia has dual touch, So I would say Touch HD also has dual touch....
It's difficult to understand why the HD touchscreen can't be multitouch... The touchscreen panel is plenty of sensors (which in fact I can see too well on my HD, as said in other post). Can't two sensors send the signal at the same time? Also, we all agree that the HD can tell if you are pressing with your finger or with the stylus, because it can detect the size of the area you are touching... so even more difficult to understand.
Of course, this must have a good technical explanation, these are just my thoughts...
G1 screen is capacitive and supports Multi-touch.
Xperia X1 and touch HD screen is resistive which DOESN'T support multitouch.
In Xparia panel, if fishes move in the middle of 2 fingers that means it simply selects middle point as pressure area of the 2 figures, or in other sense it recognizes all space between 2 fingers as 1 GIANT finger.. i hope this will clear confusions.
i needthat i Phone Like Zoom on my diamond is there any Software !!....
whoa, slow down there. take a deep breath.
ok, now, i'm assuming you mean the multi-touch zoom? in that case, it's impossible because iphone uses capacitive touch screens, while winmo uses resistive screens.
vaser165 is right, you can't use the multi-touch. The diamond does have zoom using the capacitve area around the center button, which works for most things. It would depend on what you need to zoom in on.
since diamond/fuze has the Capacitive sensor (i'll call it CAPSEN from now on) ...and a seperate touch screen...
why not combine to have multi touch.....maybe you already heard this from me or someone else..but i thought i bring it up anyway...
just like the "PINCH" from iphone....
but 1 finger on the touch screen...and 1 finger on the CAPSEN....doing the PINCH...should zoom out...and zoom in...
On a Picture....
Browser...
Notes...
any other app that has zoom function
and use it as an APP LAUNCHER....for instance...
TOUCH and HOLD the Centre button with the thumb...and swipe UP on the touch screen...brings up dialer?? app launcher?? Voice command??
maybe not just app...but shortcut for Tools...such as
copy/cut/paste/
back/forward (browser)
next/previoius(media)
this is all i can think of now...cuz i'm sleepy so I will come up with a bigger list when i'm awake and fresh....
peace
SolidKundi
+1
thought about the same just a day ago
Nice idea, I know there has been talk of multi touch on just the screen, but that is very complicated since if you touch two points on the screen it will actually read the midpoint of the two spots.
Your idea would work like holding a shortcut combo ie: Ctrl + C = Cut
But on the phone we could touch the end call button and the screen and as you move it would zoom out......and enless other ideas!
GScroll uses the touch pad on the bottom and you can assign stuff, but not with the screen....I bet that wouldn't be to hard for the programmer to figure out......
noellenchris said:
Nice idea, I know there has been talk of multi touch on just the screen, but that is very complicated since if you touch two points on the screen it will actually read the midpoint of the two spots.
Your idea would work like holding a shortcut combo ie: Ctrl + C = Cut
But on the phone we could touch the end call button and the screen and as you move it would zoom out......and enless other ideas!
GScroll uses the touch pad on the bottom and you can assign stuff, but not with the screen....I bet that wouldn't be to hard for the programmer to figure out......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There should be more apps that take advantage of the pad at the bottom just sumthing simple like scroling clockwise and anticlockwise round the ok button to zoom in n out like you can on the txt msg screen would be a gr8 improvement
+1
Was thinking about this too..
What's on my mind was touching the panel to simulate "Shift" and "Ctrl" keys. Hence to be used together with the keyboard to provide functions like "Copy/Cut/Paste" (Ctrl+C/X/V), "Select All" (Ctrl+A), and also to capitalize a letter with the "Shift" function...
If it could be done, i'm sure it will be household program on every Diamond... hmm...
mmm Good Idea!!
!!!!!!!!!
but yah...also i just remembered ..that the CAP sensor is also multitouch.??? ...i remember seeing a youtube vid about that...
if thats the case..we can do so much...like the pinch effect right on the cap sensor....or swipe with two fingers....ahhh the endless features this will give us...every other phone will bow down.....
even touchdiamond2
solidkundi said:
but yah...also i just remembered ..that the CAP sensor is also multitouch.??? ...i remember seeing a youtube vid about that...
if thats the case..we can do so much...like the pinch effect right on the cap sensor....or swipe with two fingers....ahhh the endless features this will give us...every other phone will bow down.....
even touchdiamond2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, just zoom with two fingers at the mulititouch panel! That's great!
It should be possible to make this app, because they have that kind of application on the blackstone too! (they made an application that makes the bottom panel like a zoom bar, just like the topaz)
I'd donate if it someone makes this application!
[ElCondor] said:
Indeed, just zoom with two fingers at the mulititouch panel! That's great!
It should be possible to make this app, because they have that kind of application on the blackstone too! (they made an application that makes the bottom panel like a zoom bar, just like the topaz)
I'd donate if it someone makes this application!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I say the same thing..
multitouch for diamond I think is possibile..like this app nobody thought could exist [sorry 4 english]
I was think about it 2 months ago. Not multitouch the captive + screen, But multitouch on captive only (there is video that the captive sensor on diamond was multitouchable ).
I was interested with this idea, but I can't find any sample code for captive sensor (I found some accelerometer sample code), Is there any good reverences/sample code about how to get captive sensor signal/messages with C++?
( I was interested to code it, but not promises to create it )
i wish this actually goess throughhhhh but....we need more support from the rest of the forum users....i guess i have to make this TItle more appealing..hehe
amarullz said:
I was think about it 2 months ago. Not multitouch the captive + screen, But multitouch on captive only (there is video that the captive sensor on diamond was multitouchable ).
I was interested with this idea, but I can't find any sample code for captive sensor (I found some accelerometer sample code), Is there any good reverences/sample code about how to get captive sensor signal/messages with C++?
( I was interested to code it, but not promises to create it )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually TouchLockPro uses the NavSensor and is written in C++. You can couple commands to capacitive swipes, 8 in total. Also I did make the source code available on sourceforge.
sounds good...I can only do photoshop....i'll try to help anyway i can......
i really would love to have Multitouch on my Diamond.
This will be groundbreaking.....even diamond 2 can't touch this..i think....anyways..
@ZuinigeRijder ---thanx
ZuinigeRijder said:
Actually TouchLockPro uses the NavSensor and is written in C++. You can couple commands to capacitive swipes, 8 in total. Also I did make the source code available on sourceforge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok hanks... I will check it...
any (good) news?
I'd love to help
I would love to help but.....
I don't know any programing or any photoshop, can someone teach me something? I really want to help the community but I don't know how
multi touch not really multi touch
I might be wrong but i was thinking that the diamond doesn't actually have multi touch, it's more like having 4 touchpads that all work at the same time. The left part with the home and the dial button, the wheel, the center button, the right section with the back and end call buttons. That may explain why the touch interface is so slow...
Yesterday I purchased a HD2 also called Leo, running original WWE ROM from HTC
I have installed several apps including Sloved dictionaries, Lingosoft dictionaries.
Some are in "touch mode" version, some are not. Those apps who are NOT in touch mode, are virtually impossible to operate, due to the new screen. Small Icons and scroll down menu are almost impossible to "touch" they never give the correct results.
Leo seems NOT very compatible. The reason, I guess, is the new screen type: it it different, it is similar to iPhone. They call it resistive screen.
Both iPhone and HD2 you cannot use stylus or pen (simply the screen does not react). Both cannot use the nail of the finger (it does not react).
The thumb and the finger tip areas (which is the only area which can input into the device) are too gross and wide to be precise....
You need to use the soft part of the finger (I guess in English it is called finger tip, or end of the finger), below the nail, in order to have the screen react to your inputs.
I have tried many times: in my software the small icons on top bars, and all scroll down menus ARE TOO SMALL to be tipped with finger tip or thumb tip.
They cannot accessed, or they give wrong results or you need tens of attempts to get it right. Most of the time inputs are not responsive, sometimes they are, with unpredictable or wrong results (for example you open phone ring scroll down menu and click on a ring type "A" and the phone interpret as ring type "C")
This is terrible...altough I admit the 4.3" screen is awesome and superb...What can be done?
1. is there an application which restore or adjust the screen sensibility so that it can be used with NON-TOUCH softwwares?
2. or are all developers going to release new touch-friendly version of their software...suitable to this type of screens?
Thanks a lot
Saulo
saulo866 said:
1. is there an application which restore or adjust the screen sensibility so that it can be used with NON-TOUCH softwwares?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try pinch zooming.
saulo866 said:
2. or are all developers going to release new touch-friendly version of their software...suitable to this type of screens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will, but it may take some time and won't happen overnight. They will have to do it to stay alive because of WM7 compatibility requirements.
It may be a (huge) inconvenience for some users like you, but it's a trend that won't be reversed.
Congrats on the new handset.
saulo866 said:
Leo seems NOT very compatible. The reason, I guess, is the new screen type: it it different, it is similar to iPhone. They call it resistive screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The screen on the HD2 and the iPhone is capacitive, not resistive.
saulo866 said:
Both iPhone and HD2 you cannot use stylus or pen (simply the screen does not react). Both cannot use the nail of the finger (it does not react).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use a special kind of stylus, I believe some people have bought one for the iPhone on ebay. Also, HTC has patented a magnet tipped stylus which will work on capacitive touchscreens. As the HD2 is built with a 4.3 inch screen I don't think there will be much problems.
I can use my X1 without a stylus just fine.
Is it totally impossible to manage tiny acreen elements?
Is a conductive (metal) "stylus" possible?
Thanks
zolom said:
Is it totally impossible to manage tiny acreen elements?
Is a conductive (metal) "stylus" possible?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A conductive stylus should be possible. Apparently, you get conductive plastics, which are used to package up ICs (integrated circuits), something like could work. But would would need to find a way to make it into a rod somehow. Would be expensive I imagine.
The are capacitive styluses on eBay. They are also quite cheap. However, their tips are quite large compared to a resistive stylus.
I'm going to experiment a little bit when I get my HD2 (hopefully on Friday).
But to be honest, I can use my finger for almost everything on my X1. And that was a tiny screen compared to the HD2. So I don't see the problem. Seems like a lot of people are making a fuss over nothing.
I tried to use morph gear on mine and NONE of the buttons work at all.
I guess the use of capacitive screen is only advantageous if and only if the OS and applications are designed for it. Window mobile would not be able to enjoy this benefit now. I hope WM7 would change that.
madindehead said:
A conductive stylus should be possible. Apparently, you get conductive plastics, which are used to package up ICs (integrated circuits), something like could work. But would would need to find a way to make it into a rod somehow. Would be expensive I imagine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC have licenced one already...
DinoZ1 said:
HTC have licenced one already...
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Click to collapse
They have filed a patent yes. They haven't made it yet tho. Certainly not to the general consumer.
That's B.S
If you use softwares from 1996 then sure, it won't be finger friendly.
Almost all software from recent year are finger compatible.
I just went through all the software installed on my touch HD, from about 30 software installed zero are not finger friendly. The only thing I have non finger friendly is some of the WM6.1 screens.
madindehead said:
A conductive stylus should be possible. Apparently, you get conductive plastics, which are used to package up ICs (integrated circuits), something like could work. But would would need to find a way to make it into a rod somehow. Would be expensive I imagine.
The are capacitive styluses on eBay. They are also quite cheap. However, their tips are quite large compared to a resistive stylus.
I'm going to experiment a little bit when I get my HD2 (hopefully on Friday).
But to be honest, I can use my finger for almost everything on my X1. And that was a tiny screen compared to the HD2. So I don't see the problem. Seems like a lot of people are making a fuss over nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no one is making a fuss. I hate the stupid posts of "visible dot matrix in the screen, HD2 is slower than other phones, HD2 has no video out and so on". But I quite get the feel of problems the poster is trying to address. You didn't get the point here, X1 is with the typical resistive screen, it is entirely different when you operate on a capacitive screen, and it is not about the size of the screen. I now start to worry about the 3rd party apps as I've been relying on many apps with my Touch HD. I really hope somehow the software developers will come out with apps exclusively support HD2 capacitive screen!
I don't understand .. sure, it's harder to press small elements. But even now a lot of software is finger friendly, and the trend will only get stronger. Actually I use only fingers with my current X1, I use stylus like once per week, since some parts of WM 6,1 can't be used well with fingers.
Is there some other problem ? What do you mean by exclusive HD2 support ?
newuser888 said:
I guess the use of capacitive screen is only advantageous if and only if the OS and applications are designed for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me personally, and, I believe, for many others, the major advantage of a capacitive screen is the glass screen surface and no need to use those stupid screen protectors anymore. I don't use outdated apps with tiny elements though, so it's not a big deal for me. If you are tied to them for some reason then it's a different story I guess...
well it doesnt need to be exclusiveto the hd2... just finger friendly would do the trick... I use my stylus only on some drop-down menus...
Exemple of applications which are NOT working??
I got mine few minutes ago, I am using it, and I dont have ANY problem with tiny elements, maybe sometimes you need to click 2 times but nothing. 0 problems for me.
This device is fracking awesome.
precsmo said:
No, no one is making a fuss. I hate the stupid posts of "visible dot matrix in the screen, HD2 is slower than other phones, HD2 has no video out and so on". But I quite get the feel of problems the poster is trying to address. You didn't get the point here, X1 is with the typical resistive screen, it is entirely different when you operate on a capacitive screen, and it is not about the size of the screen. I now start to worry about the 3rd party apps as I've been relying on many apps with my Touch HD. I really hope somehow the software developers will come out with apps exclusively support HD2 capacitive screen!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did get the point. He said small menus are hard to press without a stylus.
I am asking why he finds this, as with a bigger screen (same resolution) the menus are now bigger. If I can use a small menu with my finger on the X1, the SIZE of the icon will be bigger on the HD2 (given the increase in screen size).
I wasn't saying that capacitive and resistive react the same way to a finger press. All the apps need, is to become finger friendly.
They won't react any differently on the HD2. Unless you have a drawing application you use, in which case that will be different.
But my original point still stands. The icons shouldn't be any harder to press on the HD2 as they will be bigger than on an X1 (I have smallish hands, but quite chunky fingers. I have press icons on the X1 fine, so I'm not worried about them on the HD2).
Even with big fingers, it's just a matter of skill. The phone detects center of pressed area and it always sends single point to the application. It does not mean that you can't press very small element with big finger, it just may be harder to hit.
I recommend simply trusting the device, not trying to do anything special ..
let me clarify what I said: let me make some more examples to make you understand what huge discomfort this "otherwise awesome screen" is giving to me:
try for example, (on any HD2) to do the following:
settings > input > options > try to change default zoom level from 200% to 100% (you need to access zoom scroll down menu)...I have tried for 20 times and I failed...sometimes I get 300% sometimes I get 75%...no way you can select the right level.
No way you can use your nails (since the settings are in a small area)
any other settings in which you need to select a choice from a scroll down menu results in a pain and several attempts...
In this condition even the internal settings on wm 6.5 are hard to accomplish...better to shift back to HD1 or to iphone, whose software is simplified enough to make the use of thumbs finger possible
saulo866 said:
let me clarify what I said: let me make some more examples to make you understand what huge discomfort this "otherwise awesome screen" is giving to me:
try for example, (on any HD2) to do the following:
settings > input > options > try to change default zoom level from 200% to 100% (you need to access zoom scroll down menu)...I have tried for 20 times and I failed...sometimes I get 300% sometimes I get 75%...no way you can select the right level.
No way you can use your nails (since the settings are in a small area)
any other settings in which you need to select a choice from a scroll down menu results in a pain and several attempts...
In this condition even the internal settings on wm 6.5 are hard to accomplish...better to shift back to HD1 or to iphone, whose software is simplified enough to make the use of thumbs finger possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just carry a laptop round with you that has MyPhone installed on it and use that. Simple!
Hello Guys,
I found a way to have a seamless experience with the OP2 fingerprint sensor. When adding a new fingerprint always ensure that you touch the sensor in all directions with both the thumbs. This way you will be able to unlock the phone via both your thumbs. Hope this helps.
Cheers.
you could always just add a second valid fingerprint with your other thumb...
Jurai said:
you could always just add a second valid fingerprint with your other thumb...
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Click to collapse
OP's way is actually better, the reader gets slower when it has to scan for multiple fingers.