Database Users

iphone media player?

i have been searching for the iphone touch scroll and media player for the hermes 8525 phone. is there anyone working on this? also is there anyway to make the touch screen to a multi tocuh screen like the iphone.

The multi touch screen is totally different hardware, although it would be cool if there was a way...

delude said:
The multi touch screen is totally different hardware, although it would be cool if there was a way...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought so but i would think if you hack the dll file maybe there is a way to make it read multi times i dont know i am not an expert on hardware or software hacking.

I thought I heard somewhere that there might be someone working on doing something like that. given hardware constraints, it wouldn't be perfect. It would detect the space between the fingers as being pressed as well (I'm assuming), e.g. if you have fingers on the screen like this:
__........__
|__|.....|__|
it would see this:
_________
|_________|
So it would have to figure out by the shape of it where your fingers really are.
Still, I hope someone does. Multitouch would be very nice...
EDIT: due to the restrictiveness of this forum, just imagine that the periods in my ASCII art above dont exist.

That would be amazing, and something i would definately pay for. Looks like it would be like the drag box on a PC desktop. If you put two fingers on then it could drag things or select the space within.

jackbnymbl said:
I thought I heard somewhere that there might be someone working on doing something like that. given hardware constraints, it wouldn't be perfect. It would detect the space between the fingers as being pressed as well (I'm assuming), e.g. if you have fingers on the screen like this:
__........__
|__|.....|__|
it would see this:
_________
|_________|
So it would have to figure out by the shape of it where your fingers really are.
Still, I hope someone does. Multitouch would be very nice...
EDIT: due to the restrictiveness of this forum, just imagine that the periods in my ASCII art above dont exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Detecting the space between fingers would only be possible with double touch screens one on top of the other. To simulate it on the present hardware would require low-level programming to continuously scan the screen within milliseconds so that it could detect minute differences of whichever finger came in contact first. It will not detect it if both fingers pressed on the screen at exactly the same time. Theoretically it should be possible to do but that would really slow down the system just to do it that way.

for multi touch, i'm not sure how it would be useful but i was thinking, maybe it somehow "remembers" a first click, then that second click is processed. for example, the iphone zooming feature. a single click, then a second, separate clickanddrag to zoom in and out

Well, many of the features can actually be done without requiring multi touch. For example, as the screen of the phone small enough, you can actually assigning area in the viewing screen to be doing something specific. For example, on my notebook touch pad, I can assign part of the right portion to do a scroll function. Hence, it is possible to implement the dynamic zoom function on a WM (non-multi touch device) by assigning (say) right hand area to do a zooming. It wont be as cool though.

would it still be cooler than a generic scroll bar? i like to think so.

Multi Touch Apps Please

Can we try and develop some apps that take advantage of the multi touch pad at the bottom of the phone?
Maybe something like the iPhones picture viewer to zoom or rotate.
To be honest I only recently found out about the multi touch pad by using NavDbgTool.exe.
But surely it has some potential - maybe mixing it with g sensor function

you can zoom and rotate with a finger, holding the pda with one hand (just draw a circle to zoom, and a semi-circle to rotate)

oh wow what a revolutionary idea, im sure no one here, especially no developer has thought about that before......

hhmm! Help from a senior member.. usual.. Sarcasm from a junior member... refeshing
So where can i find apps that take advantage of the multi touch ?
I am aware of the circular zoom function in htc album, but i was thinking of the resize and rotate function like on iPhone and microsoft surface.
Surely "every developer" has thought of replicating that?

I have a real practical use for that pad-
On the HTC Touch Pro it is ideal for a scroll bar area. Most apps do not support the navi-wheel for scrolling, and the navi-wheel is incredibly imprecise in any case. having the area from the Home to the Back key be a scroll strip would be great for scrolling down long documents or web pages.
Surur

hedgemonstahinz said:
So where can i find apps that take advantage of the multi touch ?
I am aware of the circular zoom function in htc album, but i was thinking of the resize and rotate function like on iPhone and microsoft surface.
Surely "every developer" has thought of replicating that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean something like this?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=406206

[APP][Updated 16-10-2008]CapacitiveFingerLock (Proof of Concept with sources)

Having written StylusLock I wanted an additional lock/unlock method. Although StylusLock works great, I wanted some extra features:
* to have it possible to lock and unlock "one handed". The StylusLock approach cannot be done "one handed", e.g. on a bike.
* Also some people do not like to operate with the StylusLock (always).
* The combination with this new CapacitiveFingerLock and existing StylusLock will suit more people.
* And sometimes people will use the Stylus, so they will get the right behaviour depended on the usage pattern
* Still the goal is to let it consume almost no CPU and battery and KISS to operate
I discovered with StylusLock that when the TouchPanel and Hardware keys are locked, still the Zoom function works in e.g. Opera.
You can try yourself, using StylusLock:
1. Start Opera
2. Lock the Touch Diamond or Touch Pro with StylusLock
3. TouchPanel and all hardware keys are locked
4. Try to Zoom in/Zoom out in Opera, this still works with the NavWheel
5. Also the Ok button seems to react
I figured out via Scott Seligman and Koushik Dutta how to programmatically access the Capacative Touchpads. You can read also more here: [REF]Capacitive touchpad apps
So this idea is implemented in CapacativeFingerLock. But I am not using the NavWheel idea, but just uses the Capacative hardware area for locking/unlocking. The idea is again simple and clever. When you softly touch the area where the hardware keys are located (so do not press the keys, just gently touch them), the up/down and position area can be detected. I programmed that when the same area is touched gently 3 times within a second (without touching another area), the lock status is toggled.
I made a proof of concept program (just copy the exe inside the zip file attachment to your phone and just execute it), which shows how it is going to work. Just play around with softly touching the hardware panel, to see what happens.
If am working on integrating CapacativeFingerLock with StylusLock, to have a working "real locking" application. The Proof of Concept program just shows that it is possible.

Reserved for future use

Another one for future use.

very nice concept....now i noticed you posted a link of this thread in the wheel to unlock thread...would there be a way to possibly implement a config tool that lets you choose say, touch 3 times softly, or run your finger around the circle?

Malik05 said:
very nice concept....now i noticed you posted a link of this thread in the wheel to unlock thread...would there be a way to possibly implement a config tool that lets you choose say, touch 3 times softly, or run your finger around the circle?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In principle this can be done. But because the NavWheel is also used for other purposes (Zoom In/Out), I have chosen not to use the NavWheel, but the 3 times gently touching. In this way there is no interference with other existing applications.

I'll try that, it seems like no one cares aboyt the capacitive touch pad, it seems like an amazing thing that we've got that is so neglected. I hope to give some positive feedback later, but first I have some rom flashing to play with!
Thanks for the work, there must be so many possible implementations for this, I hope this is just the beginning of something much bigger.
How about a simple tap to launch app?

i went ahead and installed it, and it works very well...Will there be a (pretty) GUI to show that it was unlocked?
Also the diamond does have multi touch on that pad area, which enables a "trace" of the movement of your touch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Owgcos_KY
Since the nav sensor wont be so ideal, how about sliding your finger from the top of the pad to the bottom (lets say, place your finger on the back button, and gently moving it down to initiate unlock, with a GUI on the screen following your movement, as you go closer to the bottom, the color changes from lets say, red, to green...with incremental color changes in between)

Instead of 3 taps, why not a swipe between the home and back keys, which seems much more natural.
Surur

surur said:
Instead of 3 taps, why not a swipe between the home and back keys, which seems much more natural.
Surur
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I imagine it is just harder to implement for a proof of concept.
Personally I think there are enough ways to lock the diamond, whether you swipe the screen or 1cm below it is not a revolution, but if swiping the capacitive touch pad could be made to launch desired apps from selected gestures, that would be a revolution, like dynamo3 or hibernate or even standby. I think a lot of people here would want that over another locking solution. Good will intended!

Just tried it.
This is very cool very very cool
Thanks for time invested in such a cool development.

surur said:
Instead of 3 taps, why not a swipe between the home and back keys, which seems much more natural.
Surur
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Swiping is not so easy one handed. Touching gently 3 times is much easier one handed, holding your Touch Diamond or Touch Pro firmly and touching with your thumb.
However, I can imagine other sort of applications which can use the swiping for other sort of operations. Both are possible with the programming API I made.

uniqueboy said:
I imagine it is just harder to implement for a proof of concept.
Personally I think there are enough ways to lock the diamond, whether you swipe the screen or 1cm below it is not a revolution, but if swiping the capacitive touch pad could be made to launch desired apps from selected gestures, that would be a revolution, like dynamo3 or hibernate or even standby. I think a lot of people here would want that over another locking solution. Good will intended!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am going to share the source code. I have written it in C#. And others can get ideas and take over some of the source code for their own application. At the end we profit all of it.

ZuinigeRijder said:
I am going to share the source code. I have written it in C#. And others can get ideas and take over some of the source code for their own application. At the end we profit all of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like your style, that is the the kind of development attitude that keeps here!

ZuinigeRijder said:
Swiping is not so easy one handed. Touching gently 3 times is much easier one handed, holding your Touch Diamond or Touch Pro firmly and touching with your thumb.
However, I can imagine other sort of applications which can use the swiping for other sort of operations. Both are possible with the programming API I made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are open to other ideas, I would love the area from the back to home key to be a scroll bar when the device is in landscape mode. Grabbing the narrow on-screen scroll bar can be tricky, and the Touch Pro lacks the scroll wheel of the HTC Kaiser.
Surur

Have been looking into this myself as well. The only code I found was managed C#. Do you think we can use this in our native C code? Looks promising though!

ZuinigeRijder said:
Having written StylusLock I wanted an additional lock/unlock method. Although StylusLock works great, I wanted some extra features:
* to have it possible to lock and unlock "one handed". The StylusLock approach cannot be done "one handed", e.g. on a bike.
* Also some people do not like to operate with the StylusLock (always).
* The combination with this new CapacitiveFingerLock and existing StylusLock will suit more people.
* And sometimes people will use the Stylus, so they will get the right behaviour depended on the usage pattern
* Still the goal is to let it consume almost no CPU and battery and KISS to operate
I discovered with StylusLock that when the TouchPanel and Hardware keys are locked, still the Zoom function works in e.g. Opera.
You can try yourself, using StylusLock:
1. Start Opera
2. Lock the Touch Diamond or Touch Pro with StylusLock
3. TouchPanel and all hardware keys are locked
4. Try to Zoom in/Zoom out in Opera, this still works with the NavWheel
5. Also the Ok button seems to react
I figured out via Scott Seligman and Koushik Dutta how to programmatically access the Capacative Touchpads. You can read also more here: [REF]Capacitive touchpad apps
So this idea is implemented in CapacativeFingerLock. But I am not using the NavWheel idea, but just uses the Capacative hardware area for locking/unlocking. The idea is again simple and clever. When you softly touch the area where the hardware keys are located (so do not press the keys, just gently touch them), the up/down and position area can be detected. I programmed that when the same area is touched gently 3 times within a second (without touching another area), the lock status is toggled.
I made a proof of concept program (just copy the exe inside the zip file attachment to your phone and just execute it), which shows how it is going to work. Just play around with softly touching the hardware panel, to see what happens.
If am working on integrating CapacativeFingerLock with StylusLock, to have a working "real locking" application. The Proof of Concept program just shows that it is possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A while ago I posted about the Windows Messages received by the form for capacitive touch events. Is that what you ended up using to figure out where on panel is being touched? Mind posting some code so I can add it to the Sensors assembly?

Great idea. Defienetly it will be my way of locking device. StylusLock works nice but can't be operated by one hand so its useless for me. SensorLock uses battery and i've drop my phone already unlocking it.

surur said:
If you are open to other ideas, I would love the area from the back to home key to be a scroll bar when the device is in landscape mode. Grabbing the narrow on-screen scroll bar can be tricky, and the Touch Pro lacks the scroll wheel of the HTC Kaiser.
Surur
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This can be surely done, programmatically. But I do not know if you can control the scrolling of other applications. The latter seems to me difficult?
Anyway, when a lot of applications are going to use gestures using the capacative areas, there will be going conflicts (different programs reacting differently on different gestures).
For the locking application I want to made, I see also some different gestures possibilities:
- 3 taps for locking/unlocking
- swipe left to right for Power off
- swipe right to left for starting a configured application
And I am sure I can come up with other gestures and actions....

drvdijk said:
Have been looking into this myself as well. The only code I found was managed C#. Do you think we can use this in our native C code? Looks promising though!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I started with C++ and had also a working Proof Of Concept. However, because I am new to Windows Mobile Programming, I also wanted to use C# as next project. I have developed programs in a lot of languages (also in C++ and C#), but I like C# more. And I wanted to do this now for Windows Mobile, to get experience with this. Note that the C# sample is using only .NET 2.0, so you do not need .NET 3.5.
You can find a C++ sensortest program, which was available on Scott's weblog:
http://scottandmichelle.net/scott/cestuff/sensortest.zip

ZuinigeRijder said:
This can be surely done, programmatically. But I do not know if you can control the scrolling of other applications. The latter seems to me difficult?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont know if you can manipulate the scroll bar of another application directly (though this would be ideal) but at the least maybe a page down keystroke could be sent to the active window.
Surur

Multi-touch Keyboard

We all know that multitouch is capable on the popular G1 and myTouch. Now I was wondering if adding such a feature onto the virtual keyboard is a can-do. All for the sake of exponentially increasing text insertion speed.

I don't see a reason to use multitouch for text input. What should happen if you enter 2 keys at the same time?

MarcLandis said:
I don't see a reason to use multitouch for text input. What should happen if you enter 2 keys at the same time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the point of multi-touch on the vk is to increase the speed of texting meaning u can press a key directly after another without fear of the keys not registering. it really helps when holding the phone sideways because when text i start texting too fast and keys dont register correctly. thats y im still partial to the hard keyboard.

MarcLandis said:
I don't see a reason to use multitouch for text input. What should happen if you enter 2 keys at the same time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason for multi-touch is simple... take a look at the iPhone, if you hit one key and then before releasing it hit another it registers both hits. So that way you can type much quicker! Try this on the android/htc/better keyboards and you'll see that if you hit two keys at the same time, it will register a key that is almost always half-way in between the two.
However, I think Google is having a hard-time coding for not simultaneous taps but for timing. Meaning that if you hit both the 'K' and the 'N' keys at the same time while trying to type the word 'KNOW', the software not only has to recognize that 2 keys were hit; but has to resolve which one was hit first or was likely meant to be hit first. So that way, it can say
"hey, he hit the 'K' and the 'N' at virtually the same time; BUT, because he hit the 'K' .00002 seconds before the 'N' I'll put register and display the 'K' before the 'N'"
Multi-touch in the browser is probably not easy to code for but it certainly is much easier than the keyboard because pinching only requires the software to recognize that two fingers are on the screen, not that one was there before the other.
But, I think Google needs to work on the usability of the keyboard first. The screen-size on the magic and keyboard might restrict them somewhat but damn the virtual keyboard layout is verry bad... I always hit the "M" key when trying to hit the "DELETE" key.. And why not auto-popup the keyboard when you enter messaging? and why is there the "smiley" key in messaging? WASTE OF SPACE?!?

I thought the HTC keyboard sorta-of had multi-touch support, no?

How does one "sorta" have multi-touch support?

I would love to see this. My biggest problem is not registering a space in between words because I hit it too quickly and then the autocorrect can't fix the issue. Maybe a 3rd party keyboard developer would be interested in incorporating this into their app?

I believe better keyboard has multi touch.

exile20 said:
I believe better keyboard has multi touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not, unfortunately.

TonyDeez said:
How does one "sorta" have multi-touch support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I only got it working with the bottom row of keys.

I can't fathom how one would get the Dream/Magic (G1/myTouch3G) to have a fully functional multitouch keyboard. The multitouch capacity of these devices is hackish to say the least; if the horizontal or vertical coordinates of the touched points coincide to within a rather wide range (comparatively speaking) then the device is incapable of registering more than one touch -- and it wouldn't necessarily be /either/ of the points originally touched.
That would seem to me to be a game-breaker.
Unless I misunderstand? Perhaps the Droid or Cliq are different.

IConrad01 said:
The multitouch capacity of these devices is hackish to say the least; if the horizontal or vertical coordinates of the touched points coincide to within a rather wide range (comparatively speaking) then the device is incapable of registering more than one touch -- and it wouldn't necessarily be /either/ of the points originally touched.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reading this got me curious so I went back to Luke Hutchison's blog posts on the matter and played around with his multitouch demo apps here and it looks like there are indeed problems. I then found this post which explains his observations on the matter.
Even with these limitations, though, it's hard to say if there would be much of an issue. I think this "rather wide range" you speak of is small enough. The QWERTY keyboard layout was designed to spread out keys to minimize "jams" of neighboring keys. This works in our favor, making the distance between possible close-to-simultaneous keypresses rather large on average. If I play with the virtual keyboard a little bit, I notice that if my fingers are hitting neighboring keys I don't have problems with simultaneous presses because I have to move my first finger out of the way to make room for the second. I do have unusually large fingers, but give it a try yourself.
Who knows though...it may indeed be too inaccurate.
Also, it looks like there's a similar thread to this one over here.

The trouble, as I understand it, is that you could not touch two points on the same horizontal "read" line of the device, at the same time. You could probably do top row and bottom row as multitouch, but not middle row and anything else. (Assuming three rows total.)
It's not just about touching two keys simultaneously but that if the same capacitors are triggered horizontally, then the device will read this as one -- confused -- input. And if the same capacitors are triggered horizontally, the same will occur.

It is my understanding that the Motorola Milestone's Eclair keyboard is multi-touch. Can anyone confirm that?

i can conform that there is a multi-touch keyboard. Ive actually tested it out. They rebuild the keyboard and made capable of it. I think its called HTC VK keyboard. And yes i can press 2 keys at the same time too.
I have a t mobile Touch pro 2, love the keyboard but i would rather go back to android. Its almost new if anyone is interested let me know in a pm. thanks.

If I'm not mistaken, the HTC Keyboard on the hero has multitouch.

ajones7279 said:
If I'm not mistaken, the HTC Keyboard on the hero has multitouch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry but you are mistaken. the hero does not even have real multitouch in the driver. one finger gives a small dot, while a second finger would increase the dot size that is reported from the driver, the bigger the distance between fingers the bigger the dot size. this way the pinch-to-zoom works, but it does not actually detect a second touch.
you can see this with various application that show the touch graphically, for example cracked screen or steamy window.

Then I stand corrected. Just relaying something I heard. But doesn't mulititouch have to be written into the program? Like how Picsay had multitouch on the Droid whereas other apps didn't? Just throwing things out there.

kendong2 said:
sorry but you are mistaken. the hero does not even have real multitouch in the driver. one finger gives a small dot, while a second finger would increase the dot size that is reported from the driver, the bigger the distance between fingers the bigger the dot size. this way the pinch-to-zoom works, but it does not actually detect a second touch.
you can see this with various application that show the touch graphically, for example cracked screen or steamy window.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno about the Hero, but the Eris definitely does have it.
Also- multitouch DOES have to be coded into the application. The driver isn't important at all if the application itself only supports one input.

Interesting new tweet by cyanogen:
@paracycle multitouch is built into keyboardview on eclair. i've backported this for the next CM-4.2 release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

change Button LEDs

Hi there,
can anyone explain me how to get access to the control of the "Button LEDs"?
I know there must be a way because in Android those LEDs are glowing for example when you touch a button. At WM they only glow if you PRESS a button or touch the scroll wheel.
Thank you in advance

+1 here, that would be a nice option too

OK, what exactly do you all want? Buttons that light up on touch? is that all?
I'm brainstorming on ideas for my next version of X-Sense, so.... be creative!
Cheers

shirreer said:
OK, what exactly do you all want? Buttons that light up on touch? is that all?
I'm brainstorming on ideas for my next version of X-Sense, so.... be creative!
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a first step. The default settings (light up all LEDs on button press or on scroll wheel touch) is just stupid.
The next step could be something like use the sensors on the buttons as extra buttons or use the LEDs as indicatiors for diffrent stuff. The scroll wheel for example seems to have 3 or more diffrent LEDs as Backlight. This could be used to indicate the battery status.

shirreer said:
OK, what exactly do you all want? Buttons that light up on touch? is that all?
I'm brainstorming on ideas for my next version of X-Sense, so.... be creative!
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customizable options for the so the lights can follow your touch when scrolling ?
Not practical but it would look good

But how could we interact with the sensors?
I dont think they land somewhere in the message queue of windows mobil. I think we have to rewrite the driver which is responsible for them. But maybe I'm wrong, because I don't have a lot of experience with the windows Mobil API. I prefer managed code like C#.

As far as I understand, the center of the dpad is the only part of the hardware that has the capability of sensing when you touch it. The only way you are gonna get the other buttons to respond is with a button press unless you modify the hardware.

try the latest version of xdandroid. if u thouch for example the back key, it glows.
so, no. every button has a sensor on it

Just so we're all on the same page, the entire area below the screen is a touchpad, it is sensitive to touch & motion - there is an app that implements this very nicely as both a touchpad and touch launcher/Task Mgr. My xsense app already interacts with button lights to show several events (i.e. stylus out, volume profiles).

freaksey said:
try the latest version of xdandroid. if u thouch for example the back key, it glows.
so, no. every button has a sensor on it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shirreer said:
Just so we're all on the same page, the entire area below the screen is a touchpad, it is sensitive to touch & motion - there is an app that implements this very nicely as both a touchpad and touch launcher/Task Mgr. My xsense app already interacts with button lights to show several events (i.e. stylus out, volume profiles).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK Sorry! I have the cdma diamond on sprint so I didn't know the other versions(gsm) had touch sensative buttons! My d-pad is that way but the others are not. Forgive my ignorance.

Y'all should check this app out; I'm not in league with the developer, but I recognize his talent on this one. Its an amazing app that does all of the above and more - and there's a trial version:
http://mobilesrc.com/gscroll2.aspx

this app looks nice.
Is anyone out their who can explain me how to catch the events of button-touch area?

freaksey said:
this app looks nice.
Is anyone out their who can explain me how to catch the events of button-touch area?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google for Koushik's sensors.dll library; it comes with sample apps etc...

in his libary is only a event for the rotation of the scroll wheel...

touch lock pro
As I know, app called "Touch lock pro" can do some settings with the ring LED's, so this can be the way