Related
Just a thought as I'm having trouble locating up to date builds and differentiating between the builds for the vogue.
Why not zip the system files with a read me file with maybe the date and developer/editor name or contact info?
I think this will keep testers more up to date, and the feedback will go back to the right developers.
gnovak99 said:
Just a thought as I'm having trouble locating up to date builds and differentiating between the builds for the vogue.
Why not zip the system files with a read me file with maybe the date and developer/editor name or contact info?
I think this will keep testers more up to date, and the feedback will go back to the right developers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the readme is a good idea. i did that for a couple builds. as far as the dates go the date the build is put up is on the google code site and if you click on the description it says who uploaded it. i also have threads for my builds. and mssmision has one thread covering all of his and vilord has his thread which is the google ion android 1.5 build. If you want i'll add the names to the descriptions in the vogue-android google code page.
yeah maybe adding tags to builds with developers names to the google code page might make it a little more oganized.
I think with threads theres always alot of clutter and new builds get over looked, not really getting the exposure they deserve.
I sell smart phones for Sprint and for Microsoft, this android - Vogue port is amazing and I would like to get more people involved. But i cant do so until its a little more accessable to the common user.
This is a looong overdue set of ideas. If this was JUST a hobby for you guys the disorganization would be ok (I guess) but since your sharing them with the world, anything you can do to make the builds more user friendly is great. It also helps user report bugs, glitches with more precision, and insures that they have a really awesome experience with your hard work.
gjbnh said:
This is a looong overdue set of ideas. If this was JUST a hobby for you guys the disorganization would be ok (I guess) but since your sharing them with the world, anything you can do to make the builds more user friendly is great. It also helps user report bugs, glitches with more precision, and insures that they have a really awesome experience with your hard work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do realize that you can report bugs on the Google code pages. There has been a lot of hard work getting to where we're at now. We are a group of people from all around the word coming together make android run on the vogue.
And i think what gjbnh is trying to say is that we would like to collaborate with you and maybe make it easier for other people to help as well.
The google page is an AWESOME idea, but truth be told, not everyone goes there to download android on their phone.
Direct links to older versions are sprawled out all over the internet, especially this forum.
When someone runs a search on "Vogue Android" the first three results are going to determine whether they will bother or move on.
gnovak99 said:
And i think what gjbnh is trying to say is that we would like to collaborate with you and maybe make it easier for other people to help as well.
The google page is an AWESOME idea, but truth be told, not everyone goes there to download android on their phone.
Direct links to older versions are sprawled out all over the internet, especially this forum.
When someone runs a search on "Vogue Android" the first three results are going to determine whether they will bother or move on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand that and I'm all for organization but it seems right now we might be moving forums and hosting. I agree that from the perspective of a new person coming here and wanting to try android on their vogue/kaiser/polaris that it does seem a little confusing.
What kind of collaboration are you looking to do? dzo and vilord are the owners of the vogue-android google code page and it's their work which has put vogue android on the map. Aside from repackaging the builds with better more complete packages and a readme with clear instructions there isn't really a lot more that we can do. We have the forums here for questions and you can report bugs at the google code page too. I think the vogue-android page is set up quite nicely. The download page can be cleaned up a bit but the main bundles are right up at the top. You have mssmisions package, the google ion package, and the vogue-hero package.
I have no idea where this should be posted, but since I have a Vibrant, and I know there is a lot of development going on with that platform, I figured I may as well post it here. I actually suggested this in the Bionix thread, but it got buried in all the other chatter pretty quickly. Hence, the reason for this post.
I think it would be great if the active devs here had read-only forums where they could post updates on their development efforts. That way people (non-devs mostly) could subscribe to those threads and get notifications whenever they post something. The ROM threads get so big so fast, it is hard to keep up without reading them several times a day (heck, several times an hour!).
This would require the admins here to set up the forum and grant editing rights to the active devs. Then a process would have to be developed to decide when new devs could be added to the list. In my mind, the way I envision this working is there would be one forum (call it "Developer's Corner" or something like that) and in it would be different threads for each development project. You subscribe to the threads that interest you and BAM, you are getting notifications from the forum when the devs post something there.
Skip
Devs rely on users to post bugs so they can fix them. How would this be possible with such a system?
...by sending bugs via PM to the dev?
ronin4740 said:
...by sending bugs via PM to the dev?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you do that? Just use bug tracker on Google projects, it is far more organized e.g. http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/list
The idea of a read-only forum is just awful. If you want to follow the developer's progress then follow them on Twitter. You don't have to read every post, use the search functionality WITHIN that thread to search only in that thread to look for what you desire to find.
The real solution is to post a separate thread for each release. That way you know that everything in that thread is pertinent to that release and aren't looking through old replies that don't even matter anymore.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
richan90 said:
Devs rely on users to post bugs so they can fix them. How would this be possible with such a system?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There would still be open forums (the ones that already exist) in which people will be able to post questions, bugs, etc.
zephiK said:
Why would you do that? Just use bug tracker on Google projects, it is far more organized e.g. http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/list
The idea of a read-only forum is just awful. If you want to follow the developer's progress then follow them on Twitter. You don't have to read every post, use the search functionality WITHIN that thread to search only in that thread to look for what you desire to find.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know anyone here was using the G bug tracker. That is a good idea.
As for using twitter, I am sad to admit that while I use twitter, I hadn't thought of following the devs there. I will take care of that today.
kangxi said:
The real solution is to post a separate thread for each release. That way you know that everything in that thread is pertinent to that release and aren't looking through old replies that don't even matter anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is also a very good point. The differences between some of the different revisions is quite drastic, and having all of the revisions in one thread is counter-productive.
The bottom line here is the current method creates one big mess and there is clearly room for improvement. I think if the devs had a way of posting announcements for which users can opt-in to receive notification when those announcements are posted, then that solves one small portion of the mess.
Would that be so bad?
You have just described Twitter.
I was under the impression that one dev didn't want to know about bugs in their roms inside of their threads.
heygrl said:
I was under the impression that one dev didn't want to know about bugs in their roms inside of their threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only if it's super buggy and they know it is buggy, no reason to post bugs then.
Back on topic: Your idea got buried because it sucked. People read through all that, not everyone, but some do.
heygrl said:
I was under the impression that one dev didn't want to know about bugs in their roms inside of their threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Often when someone posts something that they already know is full of bugs they will ask people to not post about them, just because they are already known issues.
Al right. I guess it's just me then.
Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
I really don't want this to come across wrong, but I just have to say it.
Developers, I appreciate all your hard work. I understand this is all beta/test/etc. I understand it is free of cost, even to those who did donate to one dev or another. You do it because you want to, not because you have to.
But please, for the love of all that's good - keep an updated list of Known Issues!
It sucks having to read 50 pages of posts to try to figure out if a particular release is reliable or not, to find out if there's a key feature broken or buggy. What makes it worse is you can't tell when reading these threads which users are on which release, because many still post issues after they've been resolved. Others post things that aren't really "issues" but user error.
You know what your issues are, you read the threads and you fix the issues. But trying to find a decent rom to flash is very, very difficult when your OP says "No known problems" and the thread that follows show that to be very untrue. It generates a lot of extra posts with people posting things you already know about, and it generates a lot of bad will when someone flashes something only to find that there are a number of game breaking issues.
All it takes is to update a post, say #2, in your thread, with KNOWN ISSUES. Once you confirm a bug, whether you intend to fix it on your next release or not, add it to that thread. It helps you, as a dev keep track of the bug, and it helps potential downloaders know what bugs have been confirmed and make an educated decision as to whether they want to install your release.
Hiding known issues is something I don't think anyone does intentionally, but it feels that way sometimes. It feels like devs are in a popularity contest, and any admission of flaws in their particular ROM is a weakness. Well, to tell the truth, I and many others are sick of installing something that was CLAIMED to be working perfectly, only to have glaring problems that have been there for many versions.
For a civil and productive development community. Please. Be honest with your known issues. It will go a long way in building trust with the people who you're providing ROMs to, and will mean fewer posts for YOU to wade through of users reporting known issues, without having read 500 posts first.
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
They don't care to list them. It's beneath some of them.
Maybe AirBus should list "midair exploding engines" as a known issue too...
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1. Hell, at work I run a $100,000.00+ software suite and even that company won't do what the OP suggests!
If you have a problem with them stop using their roms go back to stock and see how much better theirs is even with a few bugs, not one of you has any right to complain. They do damn good work for free with some donations that do not come close to what they should be paid for it but they do not whine at all.
The problem I find is the "spammy" and useless comments average and pretentious users make which is both hard for the developer and the end user to read the threads. A dev releases a ROM and there is a guaranteed "Oh I can't wait to flash this" comment that will pop up. And there are some issues that are minor and are sometimes not related to the release that are posted and some pretentious loser who extends his ego by trying to make simple matters complicated. This forum didn't much of this problem before and I could quickly flash ROMs easily since I could clearly grasp the status on the ROM project.
I wish they would start a new thread with new releases. It's a pain to try to read through a 500 page thread, and you comments about this or that, and you have no idea which version the person is talking about. I gave up on custom roms and just using the leaked tmo 2.2, thanks for that Eugene
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
Update: Here is the link for the WIKI page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are in a heap of trouble, a lot of people don't read, and you are gonna get 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 repeats of the same issue.
"OMG! MY SD CAR DONES"T MOUNT< HELP ME!11!!111"
chui101 said:
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue here is really that a forum is not the ideal place to manage software releases. A list of bugs emerges from community testing, but there's nowhere to "post" that list of issues, or attach it to a specific release. Since there's no way for the community to add such documentation, it falls on the ROM builder, who probably has other priorities.
This kind of project could be well served by using a real software project management software solution, such as say google code, which has an issue tracker and other useful features. But XDA does already give us a better tool than the forum - the XDA wiki!
I wish people would use the XDA wiki more extensively. This would be a good place to keep updated documentation such as this, without requiring the OP to keep a forum post updated with the latest findings. All the OP needs to do is link to the wiki page, and other people can help maintain it.
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
swehes said:
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the project. The Linux kernel is GPLv2, so any kernels fall under that license. AOSP as a whole uses both GPL and apache code.
The issue with ROMs is that unless they're AOSP derived (like cyanogenmod) they often include binaries for which the license situation is murky at best, so google code isn't really an ideal fit for a "ROM" that's only ever released as a binary.
Really I was throwing google code out there as a well known example, there are tons of other ways to track issues. There are dedicated issue tracking systems such as trac, bugzilla, etc, but they require hosting. Most of the freely available hosted services require that you're running an open source project, which isn't necessarily true for the ROMs here.
IMO a serious project could very well benefit from such tools, but just using an XDA wiki page which community members can freely update is a great first step.
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
Stargazer3777 said:
Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. On both accounts.
Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft
To quote "there are known, unknowns and unknown, knowns and and even sometimes unknown,unknowns............but.........
Developers ----develop they do not become a bookkeeper of their development.........that is coordinating work...........good luck getting any developer in ANY Specialty to do that............. reporting bugs........
---Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft---
N8ter said:
A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have yet to see a REAL (completely dead) "bricked" vibrant from flashing a released Rom alone. I have seen a lot of user error cause boot loops or "soft-bricks" & HWL phones become unflashable because the end user didn't take the time to research though. As far as devs being "lazy" I dont really see that when the developer is coming here for us to tell him what else we find wrong. They are coding, you flash, you report back with a logcat. This is how development is made to my understanding. If ppl are to lazy to JUST do this then why shouldn't the developer discount long winded post or something they are not experiencing? If they know there is a bug its in the OP.
If you guys can change the interwebz & how 500 post per update are made completely useless please feel free to do so....
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's a pretty awesome start for sure
As a matter of personal taste, I think having an individual wiki page per ROM (with the known issues and other detailed info) might be nice, although I'm not sure what the policy on new pages is with the XDA wiki.
Speaking from professional experience, the most challenging aspect of any documentation system is always convincing people to use it. It's great to compile the information, but unless ROM builders and devs post a link to the wiki in the forum threads nobody will ever see it. Having good, community based documentation is a benefit to everybody though, so hopefully people will recognize the utility of it and encourage its growth!
I'm getting tired of all the knock off roms that are all the same.
There are a few "real" devs that make good roms. But then a lot of people cooking roms, and just changing some pictures and stuff with no additional functions, or borrowing them from someone else's rom.
Roms with added apps or themes should go in the theme section, cause its not a new rom.
Post and vote if your tired of getting rom spammed.
.
I'm not looking to fight but here's a real simple question...are you a dev? Are you contributing anything to the betterment of the community? If your answer is no then you like myself probably shouldn't throw stones. If you're unhappy don't use any of the available "spam" as you call it. Stick with your Sense and call it a day.
Just my 2 cents.
I would have to say yes. There are tons of knockoffs.
I had a whitey comment about a developer and rom that was a knockoff of Cyanogenmod's rom but I think it is better left unsaid.
PS: I don't think this belongs in this section but then again it does. So idk I wanna see the results of this poll.
Agreed, alot of these roms are just the same with diffrent apps and themes....they should be moved to themes and apps and stay out of development
Sent from my Evo
sounds like your mad that CM7 isnt out
im furious also
but comon unless you develop a rom then how about you just logout and delete the favorite from your browser.
cya
DanWalker said:
I'm not looking to fight but here's a real simple question...are you a dev? Are you contributing anything to the betterment of the community? If your answer is no then you like myself probably shouldn't throw stones. If you're unhappy don't use any of the available "spam" as you call it. Stick with your Sense and call it a day.
Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
personal attack removed. I guess you don't understand "community". Just because you don't dev a rom doesn't mean you don't take part in where the development goes. The OP is correct. There are alot of confused people who create roms that are themes. I have no issues having these roms if they simply stated they are themed roms. These types of roms should be moved in to the theme/apps. The development section should be Roms the deliver something different then the theme. Startup scripts. Modifications to the framework etc. We have a great community. I personally agree with the OP.
I guess why this is here.
There is a sticky about The General Public License. Yet we have plenty of devs that don't actually release what they are changing in their roms. This is as if they own these rights when they don't. To further development Developers should be releasing changes they made to the framework. What was changed, how it was changes, and how this change effects the phone. I don't see it. I see things like "Changes to the framework", "Other changes that I am missing" < How does this benefit anyone? This is an open source community. Maybe we should be more "open"
IMO
lithid-cm said:
you sir are an idiot. I guess you don't understand "community". Just because you don't dev a rom doesn't mean you don't take part in where the development goes. The OP is correct. There are alot of confused people who create roms that are themes. I have no issues having these roms if they simply stated they are themed roms. These types of roms should be moved in to the theme/apps. The development section should be Roms the deliver something different then the theme. Startup scripts. Modifications to the framework etc. We have a great community. I personally agree with the OP.
I guess why this is here.
There is a sticky about The General Public License. Yet we have plenty of devs that don't actually release what they are changing in their roms. This is as if they own these rights when they don't. To further development Developers should be releasing changes they made to the framework. What was changed, how it was changes, and how this change effects the phone. I don't see it. I see things like "Changes to the framework", "Other changes that I am missing" < How does this benefit anyone? This is an open source community. Maybe we should be more "open"
IMO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't agree more with lithid. There are two others out there that seem to be taking lithids and making their own thred. Most are themes and shouldn't be in here. I like to test for preludedrew and lithid based roms but I hear the same complaining. Gps, whens 4g working, hdmi.
Just because you take another devs Rom and update it nightly doesn't make it your own. I personally gone from not understanding Android to recooking roms but why should I post it then ask for donations. Donations should be to those truly developing the roms like CM, Lithid, Prelude and so on.
I certainly don't want to start a war on this but its sickening to bounce from thred to thred and see the same stuff just different title.
Said my peace.. thanks to myn, lithid, CM, and prelude. Of course to all those that help them too.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Stalte said:
I would have to say yes. There are tons of knockoffs.
I had a whitey comment about a developer and rom that was a knockoff of Cyanogenmod's rom but I think it is better left unsaid.
PS: I don't think this belongs in this section but then again it does. So idk I wanna see the results of this poll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I know, my cyanogenmod knockoff sucks doesn't it...
Just kidding
Well a lot of phones dont have roms or good roms, so even if some roms copy at least we have people giving to the Evo community.
The more roms the better is my thought.
lithid-cm said:
you sir are an idiot. I guess you don't understand "community". Just because you don't dev a rom doesn't mean you don't take part in where the development goes. The OP is correct. There are alot of confused people who create roms that are themes. I have no issues having these roms if they simply stated they are themed roms. These types of roms should be moved in to the theme/apps. The development section should be Roms the deliver something different then the theme. Startup scripts. Modifications to the framework etc. We have a great community. I personally agree with the OP.
I guess why this is here.
There is a sticky about The General Public License. Yet we have plenty of devs that don't actually release what they are changing in their roms. This is as if they own these rights when they don't. To further development Developers should be releasing changes they made to the framework. What was changed, how it was changes, and how this change effects the phone. I don't see it. I see things like "Changes to the framework", "Other changes that I am missing" < How does this benefit anyone? This is an open source community. Maybe we should be more "open"
IMO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% spot on correct!!!!!
While anyone can make a contribution to not all of them are beneficial to the community.
brizzle1986 said:
Agreed, alot of these roms are just the same with diffrent apps and themes....they should be moved to themes and apps and stay out of development
Sent from my Evo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO @ moved to themes and apps
bwhahahaha
goodboynyc said:
While anyone can make a contribution to not all of them are beneficial to the community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread is essentially pointless. Opinions are like aholes, everyone has one. This thread belongs in the q&a section, not development. Ironic the very thing complained about is the same thing occurring here. People are sharing their creations, like them or not. If not, don't download them. No good is going to come from saying people are all being copycats. I'm sure you feel my ROM is another useless creation as well, a 'knock off'. That's OK with me if you feel that way, plenty of other people like it. If you don't like it, don't download it.
Android is all about open source, this is why I have made threads like THIS ONE and THIS ONE so that others can see exactly what I have done and how to do it themselves.
Have a nice day
Ive taking the best features,tweaks etc from 4-5 different roms and made my own sweet rom but I wouldnt dare post it cause it's not my work, but that being said if proper credit is giving to the Devs is this really a issue??
Better to have too many than not enough. Even if they just change a couple of things then, imo, that could spark further creativity or development.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
You should ask the devs too. I think if a dev copies the whole rom and just basically theme it they shouldn't ask for money. But if they actually add features why not.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I don't think they're knockoffs. Even the "knockoffs" take a great load of time and effort to make them. The Devs aren't always looking to please everyone and often make ROMS because a small group has asked them to. Competition is NEVER bad
More roms to chose from is better. Not all developers want to add certain tweaks consumers demand. For example the power bar tweak and etc... this post is useless and doesn't belong here.
OP if you don't like the variety of roms then don't read about them or even become curious of them. Don't waste pointless space in this forum. Thanks.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
there are just sooooo many "custom" roms out there right now and its hard to find things sometimes.
Can we get another section under development for kernels, aosp and sense
that would make it look alot prettier
SteelH said:
This thread is essentially pointless. Opinions are like aholes, everyone has one. This thread belongs in the q&a section, not development. Ironic the very thing complained about is the same thing occurring here. People are sharing their creations, like them or not. If not, don't download them. No good is going to come from saying people are all being copycats. I'm sure you feel my ROM is another useless creation as well, a 'knock off'. That's OK with me if you feel that way, plenty of other people like it. If you don't like it, don't download it.
Android is all about open source, this is why I have made threads like THIS ONE and THIS ONE so that others can see exactly what I have done and how to do it themselves.
Have a nice day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
X2 on all of that!
If you don't like it, don't download it....I like the freedom to choose. My friend has the incredible and gets mad that he doesn't have as much to choose from as I do.
Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
calyxim said:
Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
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Agreed, but if credit is given to original devs you can't really call it "stealing" cause Android is OSP after all...I'm no dev myself but it does seem many ROMs available are CM tweaks achievable with a few market downloads or simply AOSP with extra's...however sometimes certain ROMs begin as "Zip developments" and get later support with real devs and change fundamental features (kernels, code-base etc.) so it's not all bad...
Totally agree..........
But it's not the actual non-development of new roms that is getting on my nerves the most, its the constant *****ing and arguing through lack of understanding different languages etc etc..........
All i have to say is read the threads carefully as i've noticed some people who don't speak english very well get the hump on as they don't understand clearly what people are saying.
I know i've had my rants in some of these threads before and i don't blame anyone else for doing it too. I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks as our arguments are falling on deaf ears so whats the point, i'll just ignore the idiots making fools out of themselves by bringing us stuff we've already had for a long time and stick to what i know best.
What you've said is true Scratch...even if the ROM cookers do bring something new often nobody knows what that new stuff is because of the poor English. I'm not trying to insult them but I would recommend, especially with a specialized thing such as compiling/ making a ROM, the English needs to be clear and concise so everyone knows what is being released, what changes have been made and what's been modified. More often than not, as you say Scratch, people get upset because of a misunderstanding. Maybe those struggling with the language can consult friends/devs and ask exactly how to express something they've done in their ROM so everybody is clear on what's happening.
Scratch0805 said:
...I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks...
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True, I have got quite a lot to say over this entire fiasco over the Android 4.0 "ports" and "source builds" that is currently playing out in the dev zone like a long dragging soap opera, but, its just not worth it, so, just let them argue over themselves who is first and who is the true dev and what not. Besides, it's not a good feeling when these Zip Devs accuse you of various stuffs when you speak out against them. It's extremely childish and irritating to read those posts, but I guess it can't be helped. Zip developers are not a localized phenomenon, they are everywhere, and since Android and ROMs like Cyanogenmod are Open Source, we have nothing to say, and have to live with it.
There's another new phenomenon which is playing out and can be seen on pretty much every ROM. Someone gets a ROM to boot / work at a basic level, create a thread and build up major hype and hoopla on it, and EVERYONE of these "devs" proclaim "I need help to do this and do that./..... bla bla bla". Zip dev is not such a big issue per se, but, the level of intellect is terribly low among the "devs". I believe most of them are what? 12-13 year olds, and, they act their age perfectly, unlike someone like Jacob.
/End Rant
Case in point, after Arco has announced his intentions and the fact he already has a working port in progress:
I was first, it was my idea, I continue and basta.
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Enough said.
Ahah, doing small things for the buzz (pun intended), acquiring a fame in trolland
Lol, I've made myself clear on this too.
" the ability to read is good,
the ability to understand what you've read is great "
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...om-developers-i-think-we-need-to-have-a-talk/
3xeno said:
dragging soap opera.
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Don't you mean aosp opera? Hehe...okay, I'll stop with the bad jokes.
And I fully agree with the topic. Anyone can open up any rom .zip paste in some apps, reflash and repackage it as your own.
Agree with this. Sadly I'm one of the offenders, that will have a moan at people developing zip-roms. I accept that this isnt the greatest way to deal with people on forums like theese. But it seems the only good way to get my point across to people that aren't that great at english.
Although, I must add one thing. I've seen roms get tossed around the development forums like mad. It seems to go like this in the dev. forums.
People create a booting rom. Or compile a new one.
People add a few fixes, someone creates a spin off.
Original dev discontinues rom, other 'developers' ask to continue it, even when they have projects in hand.
Someone picks up the pieces months later. After even the re-contiuned rom is given up with.
People spin roms off from there.
All i can say is dear god. I have been reading all that threads last few days and i was frapped how people are shalow in glorifying them selves and their so called development skills. I didnt want to coment anything cauze i have run into such argument once before with someone who was constantly refusing to understand what i am saying and i dont want to do it again, so i leave my thoughts here.
So people should get on the ground for change and start doing something usefull instead of make dozen threads, first when you dig something, than another one when you are asking if it can be done and finaly one when you "do" something. What they have done is nothing. They are just thanks chasers. In last few days there were more new roms than it was for whole Wildfire lifetime.
I remember tje days when there was just three or four roms and they worked, you hear me, they worked. So stop posting such s**t unles u did something that is realy worth it.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium
Yes you are right, zip development is horrible. Lately there has been a major rise in "new" roms that have been hitting the development thread. I swear I have seen at least 5 to 10 roms all based on CM7 or oxygen. And what's different? It's "fast and stable" "Is themed to look like ICS" "Has a script that I actually don't know what it does but it must do something good". And its "my" rom because I grabbed a rom.zip from a device that runs oxygen smoothly and added the boot.img and the build prop right from the CM7 rom.zip and then cooked it and I posted it under MY account so its MY rom. There is a problem though, my genius copy/paste skills on my computer that took forever to build up are limited to actually being able to fix problems with things like Bluetooth and GPS, etc. So what do I do then? Hell I request "help" to fix the problems and once a genius like acro or another real dev comes in and fixes it for me, I take the fix and say it was all MY work. AOSP stands for ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. The source is open to anyone that can use linux terminal (that's half the problem). The other problem is that no one could be bothered taking the time to actually learn a skill. They want to do something now, and now only. They won't spend hours and days learning how to program in java or C because it takes "too long" and just wants to begin this so called "deving" now. This is a rant about zip development, but wait you say, I do .zip development though? Yes I do, but what I am talking about is .zip development that is based on a .zip that is actually OPEN SOURCE. If something is OPEN SOURCE there is no point in taking a compiled .zip and "porting it" to our device. You do this because its easy for you to hit download and copy and paste, but you don't "have the time" to setup a download of the source and compile it to a rom. Zip development that is for CLOSED SOURCE on the other hand is way different. HTC, MIUI, etc. are all roms that have no open source code so all the work has to be done based on a .zip. Since the code is not available this is the only option. This in my opinion is the only kind of good .zip development since there is no source to build from. I would love to download the source and mess around with the ICS source and try to compile something but my computer is got really bad specs and my internet is so slow. I will just leave that kind of work to acro and the real devs
I agree with this. Looking through the more recent Wildfire ROMS, I can see a pattern for most. So, I have started to come up with a fight back, for individuality and mostly, for a better mobile experience. It would mean a lot if you could help me out with THIS.
Sorry to ask in this thread, but I thought it might be a good idea
Before I get accused of zipfile developing, I only compiled an edited kernel for the ROM to allow touchscreen to work a little.
I am not a "zipfile" developer and I am not going to be, my interest is in kernels.
I happened to come to xda at the wrong time, first thing kaassaus did was ask me to follow a tutorial to get touchscreen working (which took all of 20 seconds).
I think posting an ICS zip is okay FOR NOW because there is no OPEN source for the wildfire for it, and Arco is NOT breaking the GPL because he hasn't redistributed it yet.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire
We are not accusing anyone. My point is dev section is not a learning section. Those who want to learn development can pop into chefs section instead of releasing a rom with 2 zillion bugs.
There is a reason for this forum is not called xda-tweakers. Because our devs are devs. They are not steve jobs like tweakers.
2nd rant over. Class dismissed
Okay, Zip development is not so bad, actualy is needed in some points. For flashing kernels or some other things. But look at some of that AOSP-fast and stable roms. What do they bring us? Nothing. It is just repacked CM nightly or stable. To "develop" such rom you need WinZip and in best case Android SDK if they decide to decompile and recompile few apps instead of treating them with winzip too to change few icons and voila, NEW ROM. Better yet someome will take any theme and implement it into framework.And he will be so proud because his rom has diferent look. What else we can still expect is ES file explorer instead of OI, Miui galery, themed keyborad, different font and unforgetable scripts which do god knows what. They are the main part. Is that a rom? No it isn't my dear friends. Its a disrespect to any real developer here. All that we already have. We have themes, we have scripts we have everything that flashable and we dont need another yet ****y rom to tell us what is fast and stable.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium
I don't find anything wrong in updating an already present ROM's with new applications update ,... even though i must say there is a trend in past few weeks that lot of ROM's in buzz section were merely identical and there was no development in them
I was browsing the old threads of the Dev Zone, and came on this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=884659
Amazing, right? It's deja vu all over again.. (PS - Don't bump that please. lol)
I am a noob, and I know I will never be as experienced as other developers.
That is why I do not develop ROMs, and develop things I am good at.