"Putty Memory" or Hard/Soft Resets: Facts vs. Beliefs - Windows Mobile Development and Hacking General

I read over and over again the same sort of advice given to people that flash their phones and have problems - hard reset the phone immediately after flashing, then do lots of soft resets to clear up problems.
Ok, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is that some people are told to hard reset their phone twice, or multiple times. This doesn't make sense.
There seems to be a growing belief, most likely perpetuated by non-technically minded users, that multiple hard resets will somehow effect a different outcome.
Can someone enlighten me on how a phone's memory, split between RAM and ROM, is somehow different than normal computer memory?
A hard reset will reset all writable memory and the CPU.
A soft reset will clear some cpu registers and some writable memory.
Once a hard reset is done, doing another one immediately afterwards can't really make a difference, can it?
If you disagree, please tell me in technical terms. I have 20+ years in CPU architectures in mainframes and don't understand this strange "variable" outcome.
Another, even more bizarre thing is this idea of a "bad flash" - that if your phone, after flashing, has idiosyncrasies, that doing another flash will solve it. By "idiosyncrasies", I mean that certain applications and features don't work well.
This seems to imply that flashing is an imperfect act - that >some< memory may not get written correctly. It's almost like the phone has putty for memory and the act of flashing is an imperfect art of trying to "impress" the phone with a new image, and sometimes you don't get a good imprint.
Are there no checksums? Does a phone actually run if some parts of memory are corrupt? I don't think so.
I think that if a flash doesn't work and some memory is corrupted, then the phone will freeze or spontaneously reboot. It's not going to operate 99.99% normally and have one application or function work slightly differently than everyone else's. Again, explain in technical terms how this can happen.
I'm pretty sure that a successful flash is pretty much a 100% guarantee that all memory has been copied to the phone exactly the same for all users with the same model of phone+radio. I don't think flashing a 2nd time does anything different. What I think happens is that the user tries a different set of actions after flashing the 2nd time, and possibly avoids creating the same problems experienced originally.
I also think that people are using the "If you have a problem, reflash or hard reset it several times" advice in the same way we tell non-geeks "reset your PC", ie. as a first step to troubleshooting. But it's developing an unspoken idea among many users that phones have what I'll call "putty memory" and that reflashing and hard reseting multiple times will effect the outcome.

Makes sense to me, as a Software Engineer myself, I can't see how or why would several resets achieve different results as 1 reset would.
But then again.. seeing how some software is written and what strange decisions hardware manufactureres make... I wouldn't be shocked.

people who say that are dumb.

I agree with OP. Multiple hard resets should have the same effect, if not, it would point to a hardware (physical RAM/ROM) problem and if thats the case, its time to get a new phone.

Not sure if this is really the right place as it's Dev & Hak
Also has been a topic so many times.
Simply put the custom RUU.exe's don't perform a hard-reset where as the original do, to which is why we hard-reset after a flash.
I know it all doesn't make sense but if you see how many people have problems hard-reset and all is well.
Then yes it does make sense

Don't think it makes sense. Think people just do other moves after the hard reset so the problem doesn't appear. Or something with the install after the hard reset must go wrong. But that isn't the real hard reset, isn't it?

stylez said:
Not sure if this is really the right place as it's Dev & Hak
Also has been a topic so many times.
Simply put the custom RUU.exe's don't perform a hard-reset where as the original do, to which is why we hard-reset after a flash.
I know it all doesn't make sense but if you see how many people have problems hard-reset and all is well.
Then yes it does make sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The idea was that people say to hard reset MULTIPLE times rather than just hard reset once, thinking that it would do something different on the 3rd time than it does on the first time.
Those people make me /facepalm

Someones believe that there is an internal mechanism which is able to remember how many times of hard resets you have performed. Then, some different actions (more complete reset?) may be taken every like 3 straight hard resets. But we don't know whether this kind of mechanism exists except microsoft and OEMs.

It's all placebo.

douginoz said:
I read over and over again the same sort of advice given to people that flash their phones and have problems - hard reset the phone immediately after flashing, then do lots of soft resets to clear up problems.
Ok, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is that some people are told to hard reset their phone twice, or multiple times. This doesn't make sense.
There seems to be a growing belief, most likely perpetuated by non-technically minded users, that multiple hard resets will somehow effect a different outcome.
Can someone enlighten me on how a phone's memory, split between RAM and ROM, is somehow different than normal computer memory?
A hard reset will reset all writable memory and the CPU.
A soft reset will clear some cpu registers and some writable memory.
Once a hard reset is done, doing another one immediately afterwards can't really make a difference, can it?
If you disagree, please tell me in technical terms. I have 20+ years in CPU architectures in mainframes and don't understand this strange "variable" outcome.
Another, even more bizarre thing is this idea of a "bad flash" - that if your phone, after flashing, has idiosyncrasies, that doing another flash will solve it. By "idiosyncrasies", I mean that certain applications and features don't work well.
This seems to imply that flashing is an imperfect act - that >some< memory may not get written correctly. It's almost like the phone has putty for memory and the act of flashing is an imperfect art of trying to "impress" the phone with a new image, and sometimes you don't get a good imprint.
Are there no checksums? Does a phone actually run if some parts of memory are corrupt? I don't think so.
I think that if a flash doesn't work and some memory is corrupted, then the phone will freeze or spontaneously reboot. It's not going to operate 99.99% normally and have one application or function work slightly differently than everyone else's. Again, explain in technical terms how this can happen.
I'm pretty sure that a successful flash is pretty much a 100% guarantee that all memory has been copied to the phone exactly the same for all users with the same model of phone+radio. I don't think flashing a 2nd time does anything different. What I think happens is that the user tries a different set of actions after flashing the 2nd time, and possibly avoids creating the same problems experienced originally.
I also think that people are using the "If you have a problem, reflash or hard reset it several times" advice in the same way we tell non-geeks "reset your PC", ie. as a first step to troubleshooting. But it's developing an unspoken idea among many users that phones have what I'll call "putty memory" and that reflashing and hard reseting multiple times will effect the outcome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never hard reset more than once on my device, as I have never understood why doing muliple hard resets would make any difference. The few people I know who do it more than once will readily admit that they do it probably as much because it makes them feel better about the process as much as any actual knowledge of what it does.
As for the "bad flash" issue, more likely what people are experiencing is either a download that has been corrupted (I myself have experienced that downloading the file again and flashing the new file can fix odd and random issues i'm having with the phone). This is only related to issues that are existent immediately after flashing. Problems that crop eventually are most likely caused by software incompatibility or some other issue unrelated to the rom, but rather generated over time being used.
Typically I find that flashing an OEM rom is a lot more effective that any of the other rumored cures for issues in the flashing process. I honestly couldn't tell you what the difference it makes is; however, I do know that on occasion it does make a difference. My personal guess is that it has something to do with the files being signifcantly larger and literally overwriting more information; however, I have no technical explaination for why it works. That being said I have flashed several hundred roms and I know that it does work.

If your device performs a hard reset after flashing there is no way a second hard reset would change things.
I advice people to wait for full moon if they believe several flashings and several hard resetings help their devices to perform better. That extra cosmic energy might help more during flashing or reseting process or why don't you consult The Oracle to tell you what is best for your particular device

A hard reset must "hard reset" the device equally(same device/same rom) if it wouldnt the device must have a hardware damage

twfx said:
Someones believe that there is an internal mechanism which is able to remember how many times of hard resets you have performed. Then, some different actions (more complete reset?) may be taken every like 3 straight hard resets. But we don't know whether this kind of mechanism exists except microsoft and OEMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we do know that this kind of mechanism does not exist because there would be no reason to have it.

Related

Hard resetting is it safe?

Been heard that after a hard reset, some of the applications are missing.
well of cause you'll loose anything you installed yourself
but about people loosing preinstalled programs confuses me
because when we get our phones the batt have to be seen as
empty which mean that when we charge the xda and turn it on
it should act 100% as if it had been hardreset
of cause i may be wrong
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=6876&highlight=hard+reset
Read along the above thread. That's what I'm afraid of.
yeah i have read about it before but i just dont get how it can happen
I think the extened rom was deleted before the hard-reset, not during.
If your ext-rom is not write-protected and visible it's not so difficult so screw something up...
An even if the extended rom is not played automatically you can still run/edit it manually as often as you want.
Alex
So it was relatively safe to perform a hard reset as many times as I want it unless I mess with the extended ROM.
No worries, mate. As long as you don't play around with the Extended ROM there is hardly any chance that a hard reset can lead to a different result.
Glad that I'll be able to do a hard rest anytime I want it. ThanX!

Newbie: It all got so complicated, so quickly

If you'd be so kind, just to clarify the following.
I've got an Orbit II, with Copilot. Yes it does feel as if one is part of a club, but there's the topset and the thick kids... I'm the latter.
As I understand it, the Hard SPL unlocks the phone, from it being tied to a mobile network, right?
The O2 II isn't locked so then I don't need it, yes?
Therefore, I can either install all the tweaks and tips thus keeping Copilot, or put another ROM, (is this a type of disk image?), with all the tweaks and tips built in, on it.
In which case I'd lose CoPilot, for I'd have written over the device and voided the warranty, to boot, right?
What actually is the difference between a ROM and all the 'tweaks and tips'.
Is it because if you need to Hard SPL (ie unlock a phone from the network), then you don't have any built in functions left, so you couldn't install the Tweaks and Tips, which would in effect bring all the same advantages.
Look, I know Bebe has managed to do a version of WM6.1 which features threaded SMS and everthing, but I'm still not quite with it, I'm afraid.
The wiki entry for "What is a Hard SPL", just says it's one way of not trashing your phone. Not trashing your phone before you attempt what though?
For I've seen mention of the SIM/CID unlocker as if it's a separate entity, indicating they are two distinct things, created for two different tasks.
I like the idea of the phone looking funkier and working better (God knows what the AMMD is for the Video, but I know there are issues with the video, so having that sounds like a good idea as well. Right?)
Whatever it all is, it sounds like it's been a mammoth job/labour of love and has involved the purchase of two new Polaris phones, but beyond that, I'm all at sea.
(Dons bullet proof vest and climbs into protective Pope Mobile)
I think the fact you are asking all these questions juxtaposes that you should not flash your ROM. I myself am in your class and just look on with admiration. With that said, there are many things that you can do to your phone to "spice" things up. I have bought a couple of programs, Astronavigator II, (tells you what the sky at night is above you, My Girlfriend loves it), Fun contact, much more finger friendly than wm6. I also have PZP program. It automatically sets my phone to do things at certain times of the day, i.e at night it switches off, emails and phone calls then do not wake me and GF up, much to her relief! So there you have it, oh btw I have tomtom as have the TC.
The phone works quickly, efficiently and never have to soft reset. 5 years of using WM devices, I have found that idiots like me should just live and let be and use the phone as it is.
This should anser none and all of your questions
Kind Regards,
Will
unfortunately you have discovered HTC
Hey,
I hear ya. I am fat boy too. lol
I can't keep up and these forums use a form o speak, and implications that are not clear. I have no idea of why one of the cubes is called a bunch of letters for instance. unfortunately, we want our phones up to date, and the fastest they can be. But it is not that simple. I agree, I am lost on the spl thing and the sim, but then ??? it is not that clear to me.
Here is how I understand it. It may not be right, but it is an analogy that seems to work. A soft reset is reboot, a hard reset in a wipe/reinstall. As I understand it, the rom is the basic operating system, meaning when you hard reset, that is what loads into memory. Once it is loaded, it can be soft reset ie rebooted without harm. The rom is kept on the device, so when you hard reset, it can reload/reinstall itself without needing to be connected to anything. Disk Image? I guess. If your original rom, from the manufacturer installs copilot with a hard reset, then you will keep copilot. When they cook a rom, they change those installation files permanently. They adjust things, and remove things. they alter hardware drivers per say ie the radio patches you get. If Copilot is not in the cooked rom, then you would lose Copilot. You would need to buy it or download it and install it yourselft. You would have to use a restore disc, hooked to a computer and mobile center, to overwrite a cooked rom back to the original rom in this cases wm6. ROMS are much more of a big deal, as there are bugs and some things don't work as expected. They are faster tho, imho. Tips and tweaks are just that, certain replacements and other alterations. I woul think most tweaks I have seen generally do stay with the device thru soft resets, some don't if you have to hard reset. I keep my tweaks and settings/programs on the storage card incase I have to hard reset. Hope that helps, it may not be correct, but it works for me as a basic understanding level. There is a way to chose what you install as the rom (ie operating system permanently on the phone for hard resets), and i think the term they use is the kitchen. Using the kitchen, you chose this piece of a rom, and that one, etc....all that goes to the permanent part where a hard reset tell it what to read and install. I am not too clear on that one myself. I find using a kitchen fightening and wrought with risk at bricking.
Will has summed it up pretty well.
We buy these phones for what they can do, and they are just not supported by manufacturing like they should be. Our expectations are flavored by the continual upgrades from things like MS and windows upgrades fixing and patching things. I have had two pda (one previous phone). Either manufacturer was the same, limited upgrades and basically no further development on the devices.
It was a harrowing experience to upgrade my phone/pda to wm6 out of fear of bricking it. My phone came with wm2003. Bricking if you don't know, is leaving your device in an usable state...it is caught in limbo somewhere, and will not work.
Advice, wait a while, keep reading. Since things are hard to understand, keep reading and don't be in a hurry. Eventually someone will ask a question, in one forum or another, that inadvertanly answers one of yours. Check out the hacking forums, nice tweaks in there. And yes, they kinda of leave out steps. Keep Pocket Controller, it lets you tweak the registry, and see your device on your desktop. Even MS was impressed, troubleshooting a bluetooth issue. MS loved they could control the pda themselves using remote desktop. MS sent the name of that progie up the chain of command. They loved it. You can screen shot and all sorts of things. It come in handy trying to explain things. Once you feel you can risk losing the phone/device, then consider upgrading to new rom and try some of the tricks/tweaks. I know I don't want to waste 700.00 or more dollars to brick something. I think most of the time, they can get the bricked phone back, but not 100% certain of that. I study the reset and etc procedures and print them out, before I muck with the rom. I consider what I do to the phone very carefully. I was so scared I would ruin my phone.
And the other thing i say, is if you tell people you are a noob at this stuff and have a hard time understanding, they generally won't flame you too hard. Really. Just explain yourself, and give your disclaimer, and they won't be too hard on you. As you have seen, they may not fully explain things as clearly as you like, due think that is just the nature of the people and the way they think, not a personal attack or lack of anything, but they won't be rude.
As you said, this forum is run by the topset, and we are thick ones. They do astounding work and some of us just look up at them and admire. But they will help you. Keep reading, and keep trying to understand, it gets better with time. And don't be in hurry either. I see two post already of people bricking their devices already. And one guy seriously bricked his to the point of no return it seems.
ukdutypaid said:
Therefore, I can either install all the tweaks and tips thus keeping Copilot, or put another ROM, (is this a type of disk image?), with all the tweaks and tips built in, on it.
In which case I'd lose CoPilot, for I'd have written over the device and voided the warranty, to boot, right?
For I've seen mention of the SIM/CID unlocker as if it's a separate entity, indicating they are two distinct things, created for two different tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I understand it (and I've loaded HardSPL + a modified ROM on my Polaris), the SIM/CID unlocker is for those devices that were purchased from a telco and therefore locked to that company (pernicious behaviour, btw, but they offer low purchase prices to tie customers in). If your device was unlocked at purchase, then this issue doesn't bother you.
The HardSPL load is designed to prevent you bricking your device with a crook modified ROM - this obviously pre-supposes that you will load modified ROM's. If you want to do this (ie. try modified ROM's), then loading HardSPL 1st is a no-brainer.
Why would you want to load a modified ROM ? The short answer is that the marketing depts of the manufacturers load the devices with all sorts of fluffy software crap. They do this in the released ROM. So to remove this junk - and have the device fast, responsive and with enough room left to do what you want - the gurus here modify these ROM's. [Of course, some people like the fluff]. The manufacturers also occasionally release ROM upgrades, but development is done mostly in forums like this.
CoPilot 7 ? Yes, flashing a new ROM will kill this, because the DeviceID changes when a new ROM is loaded. But if you visit the CoPilot website before loading a new ROM, you can deactivate your current license and then reactivate it after installing on a "new" device. In fact, CoPilot is one of the few commercial apps to cater for ROM upgrades with honour. CoPilot doesn't care how many devices you install on, just that only one at a time is actually capable of running.
Here are your acronyms to understand what they are doing and talking about. This may not be right, but alot of this came from the Hermes. It seems someone was looking to run linux on his hermes i think. I am still kind of digesting this information now. Remember I told you look around?
Here are your definitions to help you understand.
AKU - Adaptation Kit Update: they usually patch up existing bugs and enable several new features. Each newly released AKU pack retains fixes found in previous versions of AKU
CID lock (aka vendor lock): put on your device by the manufacturer to prevent installation of a ROM not released by them. CID is a vender lock, the post above talks about that. It is placed on you phone to deliberately prevent you from changing the rom. It is vender specific it seems. I assume the Super CID tells the device to ignore that lock or overwrite the vender lock all together, or it might just tell it to ignore the error code. That is what I am seeing. This seems basically related to full administrator priviledges account for the device. it seems the CID was located on a secure area on the radio. People had bad flashing to the radio upgrade and corrupted their CiD essentially bricking some of their phones.
RIL - Radio Interface Layer.
RUU - ROM Upgrade Utility: Its the s/w used on your PC to do a ROM upgrade for your PPC. I assume this can be the default utlity or a kitchen program. The default you can find pictures of, it is generic and just tell you are flashing. The kitchen program, i canceled once, had options to choose.
IPL - Initial Program Loader: Its the bootloader for PPC. It boots up SPL. Bootloader. Basic operations.
SPL - Secondary Program Loader: By inferenece only? Hard SPL then stands for a forced control over the secondary Program layer. You can make it load something else when it boots. It seems the newer factory SLP would want to reference the CID or only properly signed files, thus limiting what you could actually do with your phones.
WWE Edition - World Wide English Edition
XIP - Execute-in-Place
It seems while trying to unlock the Hermes, they were using a radio upgrade and somehow got this Super CID. See above about CID. So it seems there was a reverse engineer done with a legitmate unlocker program. This unlocker program was installing certifcates and changing the device to a lower bootloader it seems. That bootloader ignored the CID or converted it to full priviledges. they also figured out, some bad flashing can be undone....the CID was stored in a secure area on the radio. A bad radio flash corrupted part of the CID. Once they converted to a different bootloader, they could reflash radios...thus unbrick some phones. They have replaced the bootloader with this Hard SLP. The new SLP converts or tells the phone to ignore the CID when upgrading a ROM or other things. It appears HSPL v1.13 also keeps track of bad blocks of memory. That version also reflashes bad blocks or corrupted files with fresh versions as well. It also respecs completely bad blocks, i am thinking that means, the os is not allowed to write there. The you can reflash anything to the device. Or so it seems. But again, depending on how bad you muck up your phone, some things are not repairable.
That is what I am seeing right now. Still reading. It is all out there. Just google the terms above, and slowly you will find the threads and start piecing it together.
Seems this Hard SLP is important for ROM ugrades. Still reading about it. I am post like 500, out of 1000, and trying to keep track of it is difficult. Lots of interjections of what people did wrong. Very confusing.
I did tell you read, read read, and you will find the answers to your questions, it just takes awhile and it hard to understand becuase of the lingo.
v nice. u guys need to read som basic stuffs. it will help u, & u don't have to worry about u,r phone. u can upgrade, u can change things with full confidence. xda-developers have wiki pages, i think it will help much. keep readingggggggg. soru 4 my english
You won't lose your copilot if you use the original HTC ROM....I put the original HTC ROM (which is much better than the O2 ROM)...added a few standard registry tweaks..runs NICE..reinstalled Copilot7 (from the 2577 folder on the SD card) reactivated it..(did not need to deactivate it) and everything is fine. If you need to got back to the original ROM for whatever reason...reflash it and then flash with originalSPL file.
You can reactivate copilot as many times as you like (the only thing I do before reflashing...mor as a precautionary measure...is backup the SD card)
If you use a cooked ROM ..then I think you have to deactivate Copilot and reactivate it on the new install.....but I'm sure the experts will know better.
pistonripper said:
If you use a cooked ROM ..then I think you have to deactivate Copilot and reactivate it on the new install.....but I'm sure the experts will know better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - I've had to do that a number of times, from both modified ROM changes and device changes, but it's easy and painless.
Thanks for the indulgence...
People, I'd like to thank you for taking the time and trouble to provide your very useful responses. One does read of course and things like lego bricks begin to click into place. I don't even have a car, so quite why I'm so obsessed with CoPilot, I don't know. Okay I giggle when listening to one of the ladies (through headphones), on the bus, but other than that.. lol.
I didn't know you could actually download CoPilot from the site though, I'll check that out. I've 'funked it up' a bit using the HTC Home cab and Slideunlock. Tempted to play with one of the Cube .cabs...(The one it comes with is pretty rubbish if you can't change what the cubes link to and the icons)
Yes, Yes I'll search for the original O2 rom, before I play anymore...
The actual HTC rom, sounds like a safe bet though, cos then you get the proper funky screen..
Don't want to clutter (anywhere actually) the hard core threads with stupido questions. I'll look, I'll read, I'll learn...
As one of you has said, these things aren't toys (lol) and I don't want to be left looking at a $700 £350 quid (non contract Orbit), that I can't use...
I think Bebe wm6.1 is going to stay undownloaded for the time being!
I'll leave the topset, to carry on.. Wouldn't mind getting rid of the "Streaming Media", program mind. Errr, it does/streams what exactly, anything at all?

MMS not sent, then SD card vanishes, NOW it doesn't take my password!

Last night i took a photo then attempted to send it to a friend (MMS) - surprise surprise the phone made no effort to send it and it sat in the Outbox. I deleted the message and re-created it then attempted to re-send... again... didn't even try to send it.
So i created the message again... but this time, it couldn't find any of my photos... which I thought was odd... so i try to load Resco File Explorer - and it complains that it can't find the program (installed to SD card).
So it seems that magically I have no SD card any more (fwiw: i'm using a 16GB Sandisk one).
So, thinking the phone is just spazzing out, i reboot it.... and now it won't even f***ing recognise my password!
I'm being pretty patient with this phone as i've loved it up until recently... but if i'm honest - i'm starting to grow weary of it now!
If anyone has any thoughts on what might have caused the above - i'd appreciate it!
Thanks
Don't know what has caused it but, if you have your data backed up, I would go for a hard reset and take it from there.
Incidentally what version ROM are you running?
WB
I'm using the stock UK T-Mobile 1.43 ROM
UPDATE: I've left the battery out for an hour or so and also performed several soft resets........ and now, the "unlock" button does nothing! No confirmation of a wrong password... just........ nothing!
So ****ing pissed off!
Pooper,
You say you have done several soft resets. Have you tried the hard reset I suggested earlier (different procedure to soft reset)?
If you try that and it doesn't work then take the easy way out and return/exchange the device as faulty.
Alternatively, if you get it up and running and are not precious about the T-Mobile rom, then flash to another rom (the stock 1.48 is a good start) and take it from there.
Just in case you do have a dodgy device I would start by returning it if the hard reset does not work.
Keep us posted on how you get on.
Cheers
WB
On this forum, 1 in 2 posts ends with "Hard reset it"...
...1 in 4 posts says "You must have a faulty device, send it back"
I pity the poor guy in the returns department of HTC. The quality control guys on the other hand, they really like to party don't they?
Towserspvm2000 said:
On this forum, 1 in 2 posts ends with "Hard reset it"...
...1 in 4 posts says "You must have a faulty device, send it back"
I pity the poor guy in the returns department of HTC. The quality control guys on the other hand, they really like to party don't they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sometimes hard resets do resolve strange issues. Soft reseting is a way of life in the winmobile world.
The dilemma people have at the moment is that because there are so many reports of issues and variable manufacturing quality in these devices and they are all under warranty, it makes sense to play safe and send the device back if all sensible and warranty friendly measures to resolve problems have failed.
Must admit I would be really cheesed off if I happened to have a faulty device on my hands, due to manufacturing errors, which the manufacturer would not accept back because I had tried solutions to resolve problems that they considered not to be warranty friendly. Definitely would not be happy after having spent £500 on a device.
Regrettably, therefore, this is why the most common recommendation at the moment is to send a device back. Not good but sensible and pragmatic.
WB
Towserspvm2000 said:
On this forum, 1 in 2 posts ends with "Hard reset it"...
...1 in 4 posts says "You must have a faulty device, send it back"
I pity the poor guy in the returns department of HTC. The quality control guys on the other hand, they really like to party don't they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a hard reset is kind of the mobile equivalent to restarting your pc, and we all know that is the first thing any tech support guy says. as for the quality control, don't forget that for everyone with a problem there are a few dozen people with no problems at all, they just don't start threads saying "no problem with camera, help not needed"
samsamuel said:
a hard reset is kind of the mobile equivalent to restarting your pc,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really.... a SOFT reset is like restarting you PC (i.e. your programmes, settings, personal saves etc. are all preserved); a HARD reset is more like reformatting your computer that has an ability to self install Windows when the format is done... (i.e. you lose all personal files etc.).
A hard reset is far more taxing than a soft one. Last option for me everytime!
oliie said:
A hard reset is far more taxing than a soft one. Last option for me everytime!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I very rarely have to do a hard reset with my Diamond (only after upgrading the rom), although I have to do several soft resets a day due to my tinkering!
I hear you Wacky Banana - £500 device that did this and I'd be a bit miffed too!
samsamuel said:
a hard reset is kind of the mobile equivalent to restarting your pc, and we all know that is the first thing any tech support guy says. as for the quality control, don't forget that for everyone with a problem there are a few dozen people with no problems at all, they just don't start threads saying "no problem with camera, help not needed"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! Indeed, I couldn't agree more with you. I have bought my HD2 two weeks ago (as well as my brother and my dad about a month ago) and none of us has a any problems whatsoever and actually this is my first post after I have bought the device.
I am reading this forum everyday and I contribute wherever I can to help people out (not so much here, so forgive me ).
I have came to the conclusion that either the branded units are of lower quality than the unbranded ones ( a bit unlikely) or the branded ones are full of software bugs by not so good operators tweaking (most likely)...
cheers
Hehe, i knew i'd wake up to howls of anger and derision re: my hard reset comment.
The actualities of the process aside, the comparison I was trying to make was that if you have a problem on your PC, sometimes logging off and back on will fix it, whilst other times a reboot is required. (Yes, I know, a reboot is usualy the first stop because it only takes a minute or so, and there's no resetting to do, but bear with me)
In many circumstances I would equate a soft reset to logging off, in that it doesn't always solve a problem. Sure, it solves many small problems, but for larger probs theres nothing like a hard reset and start over. Planned ahead, and assuming you have all the apps you regularly use in a handy spot, and your data backed up, a hard reset need only take 10-20 minutes, if that.
Suppose it serves me right for trying to mix up similies at 3am.
Your problem sending MMS's is probably to do with winmo getting the settings for T-Mobile slightly wrong.
Go to start->settings->menu->all settings->connections->connections->manage existing connections
edit the active connection and untick the box where it uses a proxy.
This is common to all winmo devices that automatically setup connections for T-Mobile.

[Q] {Descuss} Hard Reset vs Factory Reset

Ok everyone, I know this sort of sounds like a noob thing. But this question has been bouncing around in my head for a good while now. And I would really like to get a definative answer.
Now my initial question was is there a deference between the two types of resets?....I ask this because of these reasons. One I am a T-Mobile US customer and I had to call Customer support about an issue I had with my HD2. It was freezing on the orange Windows splash screen. The customer service rep I first spoke with told me I needed to do a Factory Reset and walked me through the process. After I got off the phone with them I did a test soft reset to see if it would freeze again. And sure enough it froze on the orange Windows splash screen again. I called back, the second customer service rep told me that the first rep should have had me do a Hard Reset using the volume up and down keys and the power button, and this is the only true way to reset the HD2. The rep walked me through the procedure. Before I got off the phone with the rep I did three soft resets and my HD2 never froze on the orange Windows splash screen.
This made me wonder why this worked when my HD2 said "preparing first boot" each time and I had to go back through the set up on my HD2 both times. So I looked through the owners manual I downloaded from T-Mobile's website. And it made me further wonder if it is a difference between the two. The below quote comes straight from the owners manual.
There are two ways to do a factory reset. One way is perform a clear storage process through the phone settings. The other way is to perform a hard reset by pressing certain buttons on your phone, in cases when you are unable to start up your phone and enter the phone settings.
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Now I come to the greatest site there is for a HD2 owner and my trusted companion XDA looking for a answer. This is what I found, a post in a thread called "[Q] Factory/Hard reset". this is the post by member AllGamer.
depends which of the 2 you are referring to
technically it's 3 methods
the user accessible one from the settings screen, only resets settings and internal SD stuff
the one via the secret code ones, formats everything
the one via the 3 button combo is a little less invasive than the secret code one
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Click to collapse
So can someone or everyone please elaborate more on this for me. I am truly trying to learn as much about my HD2 as possible. Plus I think this info would be very useful to others. And FYI this is the first thread I have ever started here at XDA. Thanks to one and all here at XDA this site ROCKS, and to every last developer here thank you. Also thanks in advance to anyone that replies.
OK the link you posted to there is referring to a samsung phone so Im not sure how thats relevant.
I was always led to beleive that the two methods of hard reset performed exactly the same function, the only diference being that one was possible to perform without booting WM.
Im sure someone with more technical knowledge than me could chip in and tell you if theres a difference but I dont think there is.........
Thanks for your reply.
conantroutman said:
OK the link you posted to there is referring to a samsung phone so Im not sure how thats relevant.
I was always led to beleive that the two methods of hard reset performed exactly the same function, the only diference being that one was possible to perform without booting WM.
Im sure someone with more technical knowledge than me could chip in and tell you if theres a difference but I dont think there is.........
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Click to collapse
It wad late last night when I posted me original post and I did not notice it was for a Samsung Galaxy S, that explains the third method that is mentioned in the post. But still it supports my hypothisis of it being some kind of difference. I have further evidence of this cause I advised someone in the T-Mobile forums to do a hard reset of their HD2. They responded and said they did a factory reset and it did not fix the problem. Then I told them they needed to do a hard reset with the external buttons not a factory reset. They then responded saying they did the hard reset and the problem was fixed. Further if it is not a difference besides the way you access them. Why the two different names? I don't know maybe someone will post here that knows or maybe I will find my answer on my own. Thanks for the response though.
Its the same thing. End of story.
Thanks for your post.
mattfmartin said:
Its the same thing. End of story.
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Click to collapse
You may be right, and I might just be reading more into it than it is. But from my personal experiences and what I have found so far on this question (wich is not much) makes me believe it is not the same thing.
What I am really looking for here is for someone that fully understands the actual things that take place when you do both of these process to your phone. I mean like what actually happens at the programming level. You see what I kind of think happens is the Hard Reset doers a full systems cleansing, resets all registry entries and values by accerssing files that the Factory Reset does not have permission to. Also I think the Factory reset option is mor of a storage/memory cleansing making the phone appear to be reset to defaults without actually reseting all values. I have no actual substantial proof of this yet, it is just a a generalized hopothosis right now. So if I am just being stupid I appologize, but if I am not and someone can explain it to me I would be very thankful.
I always thought it was different ways of saying the same thing... and that the 2 methods performed the same operation. It might be possible that the clear storage way doesn't do a full hard/factory reset and it just clears storage.
Bump Bump
Ok it has been a couple of days and I am really hopping someone with the knowledge to give me some kind of definitive answer to this question will see this. Or at least have a thread with a good discussion on this subject. Thanks again!
It's the same thing.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

microSD Drivers

My Grand Prime doesn't recognize any of my microSD cards (I have three that work with all my other devices except this phone). Before I accept that the connector is broken and file for a warranty replacement I want to try out a couple things.
One thing I was reading is to uninstall/install the microSD drivers from the Device Manager. However, I can't find the Device Manager...where is it located?
Another suggestions was to perform a Reset, and if that doesn't fix it, a Factory Reset. All I can find, as far as resets, is the Factory Reset. How do you perform this regular reset and what is the difference?
Then someone on Android Central said that the Android OS could be the problem. I responded to this guy letting him know the phone's running 5.1.1, but I haven't heard back from him. Is anyone familiar with this, cuz it doesn't make much sense to me.
If anyone has any other suggestions they'd be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
-Adam
God this was funny xD. There's no device manager on android. To do a factory reset, pull the battery out, put it back in and before turning it on press the Volume UP and home button and turn it on. Quit releasing the power once you see Samsung on the screen. Then using the volume keys, select Wipe Data and use the power button to confirm.
fabiossilva21 said:
God this was funny xD. There's no device manager on android. To do a factory reset, pull the battery out, put it back in and before turning it on press the Volume UP and home button and turn it on. Quit releasing the power once you see Samsung on the screen. Then using the volume keys, select Wipe Data and use the power button to confirm.
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Ok, so I'm not crazy; I had never been aware of a device manager either. Is there even such thing as a sd card driver either?! Same thing with a Reset that isn't a Factory Reset..? This problem is just really pissing me off cuz I called the Metro store I bought the phone at the same day to ask if I could come back and exchange it, it's obviously a lemon, and they said no! I have to go thru the warranty. If they try n charge me any extra money for a new phone I won't be happy. I know how these companies work. They pass you off to 10 different people, with the hold time increasing each time, until you get to someone that can actually help you and cancel the made up charge. They know they're dealing with someone who's already frustrated and figure that you'll just give up and pay.
No there are no drivers in Linux/android as far as I'm aware, however there are modules that make your hardware load but that should nit be an issue. The only reset there is, is the Factory reset. Try it, if it doesnt work either, go to the store and claim your warranty!
fabiossilva21 said:
No there are no drivers in Linux/android as far as I'm aware, however there are modules that make your hardware load but that should nit be an issue. The only reset there is, is the Factory reset. Try it, if it doesnt work either, go to the store and claim your warranty!
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Click to collapse
Have you ever heard of a problem, most likely hardware related, being fixed with a Factory Reset? Also, is there an App that copies all Contacts saved to the Device into a file that fan be imported back into the phone, after the reset? The Contacts I have saved to Google are cluttered with old, outdated ones, ones of people I forge,t but might remember one day, and be happy I still have them, etc. So I just keep the Contacts I currently use on the Device to make things less complicated. Thanks.
Adam O'Blivion said:
Have you ever heard of a problem, most likely hardware related, being fixed with a Factory Reset? Also, is there an App that copies all Contacts saved to the Device into a file that fan be imported back into the phone, after the reset? The Contacts I have saved to Google are cluttered with old, outdated ones, ones of people I forge,t but might remember one day, and be happy I still have them, etc. So I just keep the Contacts I currently use on the Device to make things less complicated. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope sorry don't know any app like that I always use the google sync!

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