When I boot my device I usually have 18.something mb spare ram, with pocket plus and spb diary running, but nothing else. For some reason when I look at my phone later, having done nothing with it, I have less spare ram, and it keeps reducing down to 3 or 4 mb.. is this a known problem? and is there a solution?
Don't bother to give important info such as which (of the thousands) of Rom versions you are running or if you have verified that Activesync (notorious memory consumer) didn't get started somewhere and the list goes on..
kyphur said:
Don't bother to give important info such as which (of the thousands) of Rom versions you are running or if you have verified that Activesync (notorious memory consumer) didn't get started somewhere and the list goes on..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think someone needs to tear themselves away from the computer, and get some fresh air :roll:
Hi fuel - yes been reported a memory leak with those spb products, try uninstalling them and introduce them one at a time to see which the culprit is. Some users have switched to sbsh products and found the memory problems better.
If you have not switched to an up to date rom - that will help.
To stop activesync keep running in the background and using up resources see here http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=52431
btw I have 25mb after soft reset and I have calendar +. phone profiles. sbsh pocket weather, dktoday installed - so it is possible to get more free ram. (if you use cache tweaks try decreasing the size of them as well)
fuel925 what ROM are you using? My original 1.8.11 ROM always (Still does) have a memory leak somewhere. It will boot at 23 MB and even with nothing running, a few days later it will be at 18 MB...still nothing running.
Summiter's AKU2.3 ROM however, doesn't have this memory leak problem. When I was running it, I never had a memory leak problem; always stayed at 22 MB. I reverted back to 1.8.11 though, like that ROM more for various reasons I'm not going to bother stating because it's an entirely different subject than your post lol :lol:
Thanks for the replies! I updated to the latest t-mobile uk rom a couple of days ago, the problem was occuring before, and is still happening :? Ive only just purchased pocket+ and diary, so im reluctant to change to other software. Maybe the next rom update or software update from spb would fix the problem?
fuel925 said:
Thanks for the replies! I updated to the latest t-mobile uk rom a couple of days ago, the problem was occuring before, and is still happening :? Ive only just purchased pocket+ and diary, so im reluctant to change to other software. Maybe the next rom update or software update from spb would fix the problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possible fuel - maybe good idea to browse spb forum - they may have tips and hints or some new betas to try. Do the acyivesync tweak as well certainly helped me.
Hi,
I just got my hermes back from being repaired. They had to change the whole board inside and thus there is a new (Chinese!) rom on it. I need to install an English ROM again as well as change the keyboard layout (what fun!).
Can anyone tell me which ROM seems to have the least problems right now? I looked through a number of threads but its hard when they are 10+ pages each.
Thanks in advance.
I found LSV's WM6 was heaps heaps faster than other roms I've used in the past....navigating on it felt very quick and responsive.
Only problem I had with it was I had to apply the ATI fix from a thread Slueth posted to resolve. I found the ATI bux only affected the mediaplaying program Coreplayer. And I also had to apply Slueth's A2DP fix as well...after that perfect skip free music from both bitpool set to 30 and 48 (can be set by TweakUI in Start->settings->system->TweakUI).
Can anyone help me out with a recommendation?
Use LVSW
See my signature for the link, but it is the BEST one out there, VERY stable, excellent battery life, etc, etc
I think the best ROM is Black 2.5... no wait it's Custel... hmmmm maybe I'm wrong and want to vote for LVSW or even wait for Kyphur to re-surface (sorry I nearly forgot my favourite Dutty).....
Oops, Chinese alcohol taking over brain, but seriously, no one can really answer this. The people who think XXXX is the best rom do so because it is the best for them - works well with their radio, applications, service provider, Hermes variant etc etc.
The only way to find out is to try them AND try for a few days at least to get a real feel for the stability based on your own useage.
Personally I've now stuck with the LVSW rom for a while (on a UK vodafone VPA1605). I guess that you may have an X01HT because of the Chinese rom and I've just read that some other user had problems with this rom on his X01HT - so even there I can't recommend something which works so well for me.
BUT, have lots of fun trying them all - I did.
Marlz said:
Hi,
I just got my hermes back from being repaired. They had to change the whole board inside and thus there is a new (Chinese!) rom on it. I need to install an English ROM again as well as change the keyboard layout (what fun!).
Can anyone tell me which ROM seems to have the least problems right now? I looked through a number of threads but its hard when they are 10+ pages each.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey. I'm having problems with the amount of available memory on my Wing. After a soft reset, I only have 27% of my memory left.. it makes it exteremely hard to multitask even a couple programs; my old mda would start off with around 52% of is memory free after a soft reset. I'm using the ROM that came with the phone; my phone was an insurance replacement and arrive a few days ago, so I think that I probably have the latest official ROM. Are there any custom ROMs out yet, for the wing, that help the memory situation, like a more stripped down version.. or any reg tweaks?
Thanks,
adam79 said:
Hey. I'm having problems with the amount of available memory on my Wing. After a soft reset, I only have 27% of my memory left.. it makes it exteremely hard to multitask even a couple programs; my old mda would start off with around 52% of is memory free after a soft reset. I'm using the ROM that came with the phone; my phone was an insurance replacement and arrive a few days ago, so I think that I probably have the latest official ROM. Are there any custom ROMs out yet, for the wing, that help the memory situation, like a more stripped down version.. or any reg tweaks?
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That looks very interesting...but this is a HTC WIZARD FORUM !
Try posting that here : http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=348
moving to herald.
adam79 said:
Hey. I'm having problems with the amount of available memory on my Wing. After a soft reset, I only have 27% of my memory left.. it makes it exteremely hard to multitask even a couple programs; my old mda would start off with around 52% of is memory free after a soft reset. I'm using the ROM that came with the phone; my phone was an insurance replacement and arrive a few days ago, so I think that I probably have the latest official ROM. Are there any custom ROMs out yet, for the wing, that help the memory situation, like a more stripped down version.. or any reg tweaks?
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ALL the custom roms for wizard are coked with 4MB pagepool. The original ROM has 12 MB - that´s the roblem. You won´t get more memory on wing/herald without custom ROMs.
20MB after hardreset is the most wecan get at the moment.
Sorry.
just wondering..
hey there! i just recently joined this forum and been readin some threads here. and so far i see people saying they have like 12mb memory on their wing... do you guys have any idea how they do that? because i check my wing i only have 2mb... so im wondering how can i improve mine.
thanks for help!
zerorei said:
hey there! i just recently joined this forum and been readin some threads here. and so far i see people saying they have like 12mb memory on their wing... do you guys have any idea how they do that? because i check my wing i only have 2mb... so im wondering how can i improve mine.
thanks for help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
papamopps said:
ALL the custom roms for wizard are coked with 4MB pagepool. The original ROM has 12 MB - that´s the roblem. You won´t get more memory on wing/herald without custom ROMs.
20MB after hardreset is the most wecan get at the moment.
Sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want a good amount of free memory you will most likely need to flash the ROM on your wing to a custom one found on this website, such as ttran's "Open Touch" (scroll down to the 3rd post to download. Several versions to choose from.) You can use the guide provided by ivanmmj, here, to help you with the process. Here (post #60) is a link to a post regarding the memory/RAM free and used for open touch. There are many other great ROMS out too, i just happen to be using Open Touch 5.0 so its easier for me to explain it. Make sure to read thoroughly to understand all the risks and benefits involved also.
I have 15-22mb free with an oem rom.
Following the directions of previous posters I changed the pagepool size to 6mb. Many posters of a few months ago were talking about how to do this. I believe there's even a cab that will do it for you.
Another way to get more memory is to buy SKTools
HTML:
http://s-k-tools.com/index.html?m_products.html#tools
which has an "optimize" feature that will free up even more memory and tweak a number of go-faster settings.
Yeah, to echo what was said before......the mem wont get better till you get into custom roms.
You do NOT have to use a custom ROM
This might seem to be against the conventional wisdom, but I'd argue that you do NOT have to use a custom ROM to improve the free memory situation on the Wing. I am running the latest official T-Mobile ROM and have about 20 MB free after a soft reset. There are a number of things you can do to increase this number without having to install a custom ROM:
(1) Change the size of the pagepool. I believe the latest T-Mobile ROM has an 8 MB pagepool. I have decreased it to 6, but others use 4 without (as far as I know) too many problems. This gives you 2 or 4 MB extra RAM.
(2) There are many more processes running (and using RAM) on the phone than you see in the standard task manager. That only shows you programs that you have opened yourself. I found that a number of these extra processes are started by shortcuts in the \Windows\StartUp folder, and therefore run when the phone turns on. Some that I removed are btdwake.lnk, My5MsgCenter.lnk, poutlook.lnk, Voice Command.lnk, and WiFiInit.lnk. You can do a search to find out what these are. If you don't use MyFaves, Voice Command, WiFi, etc. you can save a lot of memory by deleting these shortcuts from the StartUp folder. (Note: You have to rename them first, then do a soft reset, and then you will be able to delete them.)
(3) There are processes that are "services" that are always running as well. For this, I'd suggest a program like MemMaid, which shows you the "Startup Services" and allows you to disable them. I personally disabled the SMSCSend (Target: My5Client.dll) and TMW (T-Mobile HotSpot Loging Utility). There may be more. Again, I'd suggest searching for what each one is before disabling it.
Of course some people prefer custom ROMS, and that's fine. Personally, I prefer the standard WM6 Home screen to the various "Touch" interfaces touted by the custom ROMS. Installing a new ROM seemed complicated to me and a little risky for someone who hasn't done it before. Also, I didn't want to have to start from scratch with a new ROM.
Anyway, I'm posting these suggestions as an alternative for those who for whatever reason don't want to install a new ROM. Good luck!
I hope this is ok here, I have searched a lot and my question is not directly answered (or I can not find it)
I have just had a new HD turn up, had one when they first came out but liked iPhone so much, could not stop using it, so Touch HD went back.
Just been through lots of different phones again, as at last I am finding iPhone limiting in the things I want to do. Just rejected a TP2 as it has no 3.3mm socket, and is a bit heavy, quite happy with soft keyboard now from iPhone use, so I think Touch HD will suit me fine.
OK, I really liked the TP2 feel, and software, but I also liked using SPB Mobileshell 3 on it, so I plan to use this on my HD.
Now, finally my question
I have never understood why I might want to put a custom ROM on my device. I have read all the guides, and the dummies guide, but although that helps me understand HOW to do it, not sure why I would WANT to do it?
I can understand for those people that have a horrible Orange branded one or something, but mine is standard 1.56.405.1 from HTC, unbranded.
So, I see that Custom ROM can have programs already in them, and they add features like the new TF3D on the TP2, which I liked, but since I am gonna use SPB MS3 is there any point?
Sorry if I sound like a total noob, I really am not (just flashed an Orange Samsung i8910 from and to Orange 4 times so I can follow these things), but in the case of the i8910, I could see why I would flash new ROM, to get rid of Orange crap, but here, just really confused.
Thanks in advance for any insight, if I have posted in wrong place, please point me to correct place.
Kev
I also use MS3 and have been wondering if it's worth upgrading to a new ROM as most are TFL3D.
I guess after upgrading to a new ROM that the provider details will need to be reset - but that's not a bigee as the OS looks up the details right ?
<draws up a chair>
A small list of pro's & con's below:
Pros:
- New features - A lot of new features first arrive on cooked roms like new touch flow interface from the new rhodium and topaz htc phones. Obviously most stock roms now have this, but originally they didn't. Without flashing, this wouldnt have been available.
- New manila which makes customization easier
- You can install new OSs such as windows mobile 6.5
- Various types of roms available, i.e. "lite" ROMs which have very little features and as a result are faster or "heavier" ROMs which tend to be a bit slower though gap in speed has dramatically decreased with newer versions.
- Have many features/apps already "cooked" into the ROM to save you installing them yourself after a hard reset
- Some have new drivers which improve performance.
- Some have custom interfaces
- Process isnt that hard once youve got hardspl/uspl sorted (and that gets easy after a short while too). its all run through an app on your computer with your HTC connected via activesync to your computer which is about as easy as installing a program (just click next, i agree etc.)
Con's
- Can take a bit of time to get used to the process. But once you have it becomes vry quick
- Need to use backup software as all your apps and contacts (everything on the main memory is wiped clean. Information on SD is left untouched). Recommend Sashimi, PIM Backup & SPB Backup.
If you use your HTC for more than just its basic features and want to get the most out of it, definately flash a new ROM. The performance increase is noticeable going from a stock ROM to a well cooked ROM. You'll have to use HSPL or USPL on your phone first. My mate cRaCKwHoRe has provided this excellent guide
new manila which makes customization easier, offers landscape all over, better speed all over, even under heavy stress....my absolute favourite, Start is no longer that ugly WinMo '90s look-a-like square drop down menu, it's a program launcher i can open from any tab, program, whatever, so it's oh so easy to open anything from anywhere in two very fast and smooth clicks
can't even remember does the stock have whole Facebook profile linking to Contacts profile, saving pic and birthday (which i then sync to Outlook, which syncs it to Calendar)....oh, manila calendar, the WinMo thing is just awful, i'd rather use pen and paper
the whole experience is much much prettier, more user friendly and faster at that....with every update there's less WM and more manila, which is what everyone probably wants (from HTC or generally) :/
OK, so Manila and TF3D are exactly the same thing?
So assuming this is true, all the stuff I could do on the TP2 I had would be doable on this Touch HD if I put a cooked ROM with Manila 2.5 on?
Kev
Fallen Spartan said:
A small list of pro's & con's below:
- Can take a bit of time to get used to the process. But once you have it becomes vry quick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks so much for taking the time to do that. I think I am getting.
As I ask someone else, Manila and TF3D are the same thing right?
So, this HardSpl and softSpl, I have read the guide, but am still not clear why I would use one over the other?
At first glance, it would make sense to only use Hard? Why might someone not want to do that?
Kev
huh, i use USPL because it's a small program you run, it takes about 10sec to load and you're done, ready to flash....HSPL seemed like more hassle to begin with and USPL is really easy and simple :/ somehow even if i flashed 10 times a day, i wouldn't really see a problem with just running USPL :/
manila 2.5 is leaked, not officially out on any phone, 2.1 is out on TP2....and 2.5 is bugged, probably just a fun thing to try, not really use daily and seriously....2.0 and 2.1 are your every day options, and yes, probably everything on TP2 is in some of the ROMs cooked for Touch HD
Ah, OK so USPL would be good for me as I do not intend to flash new ROM very often?
It seems HardSPL would be for people that would be flashing all the time?
I read the bit where you say you would use USPL even if flashing lots, but surely if you were, HardSPL would be better?
Ok, so forget 2.5 Manila then, (just saw a Video and thought it was common), look for ROM with 2.1?
What version do we have on stock HD?
Thanks for answering.
Kev
kevwright said:
Thanks so much for taking the time to do that. I think I am getting.
As I ask someone else, Manila and TF3D are the same thing right?
So, this HardSpl and softSpl, I have read the guide, but am still not clear why I would use one over the other?
At first glance, it would make sense to only use Hard? Why might someone not want to do that?
Kev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HSPL is an user-modified SPL that you have to flash to your phone. It overwrites the existing SPL on your device with a "hacked" one so to say. It allows you to bypass the HTC certificate check and flash unsigned or CID-mismatching roms to your phone. You only have to flash it once and then you can flash roms anytime.
USPL is a temporary solution. It takes advantage of an exploit in the existing SPL and then loads a modified one to memory, effectively allowing the same thing as HSPL. However, since this is only memory-resident you have to do it each time you want to flash unsigned or CID-mismatching roms to your phone, because this exploited state is lost upon reboot. With USPL you must still have the right version of the HTC SPL that is compatible with the rom you want to use.
Basic difference is that HSPL is permanent and voids warranty and USPL is temporary and thus doesn't void warranty. However, once you use HSPL you can flash any radio & rom any time you want, but with USPL you need to reuse it before every flash to new radio or rom.
If you put HSPL on your device you can remove it by following procedure at bottom on first post in this thread.
There are 2 versions of HSPL, 1.14 & 1.56. Make sure you use the correct version for whatever rom you intend to flash to, i.e.
HSPL 1.56 is for roms based on 1.56+
HSPL 1.14 is for roms based on pre 1.56
kevwright said:
Ah, OK so USPL would be good for me as I do not intend to flash new ROM very often?
It seems HardSPL would be for people that would be flashing all the time?
I read the bit where you say you would use USPL even if flashing lots, but surely if you were, HardSPL would be better?
Ok, so forget 2.5 Manila then, (just saw a Video and thought it was common), look for ROM with 2.1?
What version do we have on stock HD?
Thanks for answering.
Kev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, go to settings tab in TF3D and scroll down to 'About'. It should state something like TouchFLO 3D 2.1.38147.5. I highlighted the version in bold i.e. In this case its manila version 2.1
Ok, I think I need to flash a ROM, as I am finding the Touch HD a little less exciting than the TP2 I just sent back.
I liked the TP2 but it was heavy and had no 3.5mm jack, but it seemed quite a bit faster than this HD. Screen seemed much brighter as well, is that possible?
Anyway, now I have decided, I really don't have a clue what ROM to use. I have been reading this site for the last 4 hours, and am no further forward.
Kev
I'm hoping to get some answers out of this thread as well Kev - without hijacking though
If I want to keep all my current program settings and the like, is there a foolproof method by which I can restore programs from a backup on my Stock rom, onto a newly flashed cooked ROM.
I am looking for the newer features of the latest manilla but I don't want to lose any of my current data and go through the process of reinstalling the programs again.
I have pimbackup so know that will be a synch!
lol, well, Dutty 3.9XT is a huge hit, i love it and think it should be made stock, so you can go with that one....i also tried Laurentis26 latest one and it was lightning fast and smooth and is based on TP2 ROM so that's another option
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=537948
manila 2.1 can have an sms bug, not everyone has it, but even TP2 suffers from it and there's still no official HTC fix....some people can't send 2 sms in a row to a same person, i am one of them and that's why i stick to manila 2.0 :/
Wiggz said:
I'm hoping to get some answers out of this thread as well Kev - without hijacking though
I have pimbackup so know that will be a synch!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hijack all you want mate, we will get better answers!
I want to flash before I get it all setup, and I need to hide my iPhone away, the screen is so much brighter than this HD :-(
I keep thinking though, all my old WM devices were based on standard software and SPB Pocket Plus, and I do like the standard today screen. With this in mind, how much will I benefit from a new ROM since they all seem to be based around really good inplementation of TF3D.
Kev
kevwright said:
Hijack all you want mate, we will get better answers!
I want to flash before I get it all setup, and I need to hide my iPhone away, the screen is so much brighter than this HD :-(
I keep thinking though, all my old WM devices were based on standard software and SPB Pocket Plus, and I do like the standard today screen. With this in mind, how much will I benefit from a new ROM since they all seem to be based around really good inplementation of TF3D.
Kev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although a lot of roms are based around good implementation of TF3D, they are also cutomized for speed, performance & stability of phone overall. So a cooked rom should out perform a stock rom in almost all categories
Fallen Spartan said:
Although a lot of roms are based around good implementation of TF3D, they are also cutomized for speed, performance & stability of phone overall. So a cooked rom should out perform a stock rom in almost all categories
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..and what about my particular question relating to restoration of stock rom backup (programs, not rom files obviously)
Just to add my own view to this as I have had the same dilemma in the past.
I stayed with stock....basically because I have quite a few apps installed on my device, and it seems that almost every other day updates are coming out to cooked ROMs to fix bugs, and it takes half a day to reinstall my apps and set them up. if ROM updates are coming out every few days I would spend half my life updating to the new one to fix a bug and then having to reinstall my apps.
Wiggz said:
..and what about my particular question relating to restoration of stock rom backup (programs, not rom files obviously)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
am afraid there's no way to restore programs, they have to be reinstalled since flashing is just like hard reset/clear storage, deletes everything on the device (not the storage card) :/
also, with flashing you're upgrading manila and most other programs to latest released built, so you don't wanna restore old files as they might not work with newer versions :/
i use Outlook to re-sync my contacts and calendar and Microsoft MyPhone to restore sms messages....also have opera6.adr file on my storage card which i just copy into /Windows/Opera folder to restore my bookmarks....RSS Hub i set to use Storage Card for data, then it says i already have some settings there and asks do i want to overwrite, select no and i have my old channels set
rest i do by hand, but post-flash set up takes 30min once you get used to it :/ many programs/icons/stuff require a restart after installation, one just remembers which and does them one after the other and then, after you installed taskbar, clock, icons, s2u2, such, you do one restart and it's all done in minutes
@twisted-pixel: yes, it can happen that you flash weekly to correct bugs....however i'm on the same ROM now for month and a half, did flash last week, 3 times in a day, but i was bored and wanted to try out stuff went back to the same ROM again at the end of the day
I have NRGZ28's ENERGY ROM, its worth flashing it, if for nothing else, the SPEED. My HD had all the 'Orange' crap on it and it was so slow compared to how it is now....go ahead....FLASH!! (your rom, that is)
suisen said:
am afraid there's no way to restore programs, they have to be reinstalled since flashing is just like hard reset/clear storage, deletes everything on the device (not the storage card) :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to update you all on this.
Throy's latest roms have included an auto-install for apps when flashing. I've tried this and it works a charm. See quote below.
Autoinstall thanks to my Good friend Tom: [ FAST and Fantastic.]Create folder in Root of Storage Card called [ Autoinstall ]
Copy all your cabs in that folder
After Flash , and during customisations all your cab will be installed.
Also set your cabs to read only
So get Your Storage Card prepared with all your Cabs to install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only drawback on this is that all apps are installed onto main menu, so if you want any apps installed on your SD Card you will have to install them manually or alternatively use Sashimi backup which also auto-installs apps etc
I was given an SPV M3100 with a cracked screen, bought a new one off eBay for just of €20, fitted it, fired it up and everything works !!
I removed the Operator SIM lock and CID lock so I can use my VodaIE sim (was previously locked to OrangeUK)
According to the "About" screen it says the following
CE OS 5.1.195 (build 17743.2.3.0)
Memory 48.93mb
The splash screen after the initial Orange screen says "3.0 Black windows mobile pro"
Does this mean it's been flashed with a new rom ?
I'd like to flash it with a rom that needs the minimum of stylus use for navigation (fingers like sausages), what would be the best for this ?
Looks like its been flashed before, BUT, thats a fairly old rom. It might be an idea to check your SPL, if its not 2.10 oli then its not the safest. Go to the Hard SPL sticky in the Upgrading part of the forum to download Hard SPL V7. Install this (go to page 116, post 1160 for the sd card method - this can be used to flash roms to, just drop the steps using SSPL.exe(soft SPL) as you now have Hard SPL on your device). This will give better protection for when you flash your Hermes.
As for the rom, unfortunately these devices aren't like the Iphone where its all geared for the fingers. You will need to use a stylus in every rom. So saying, look in the WM06 part of the forum, you might like to use the Manilla or Titanium roms. Please note however that these may cut down on the storage memory. Also, read a bit about the rom as the chefs generally tell you whats in the roms. If you want specific things either look for a rom thats closest to that or use a lite rom and add the apps yourself.
I tend to opt for the Lite roms myself as I then pack the phone with a concoction of apps to my liking and I don't really like Manilla or Titanium. Everyone's different and whats good for one may not be good for all.
Hope that helped...
Cheers...
iPhone ?!?!?! go give yourself 20 lashes for even mentioning it !
I'm running a Hackintosh, although I still have to boot into XP to do bit's and bob's though.
The Manilla and Titanium roms seem to be more what I was lokking for, it's really the basic functions and navigation that needs to be "fat finger freindly", the main use is really going to be just as a phone, so calls and texts
I know, I don't like the Iphone either, but it is more finger friendly than our devices...
You may need to install a custom onscreen keyboard if you want to have that more finger friendly but remember, the more space used up by the keyboard, the less space to see what you're writing. At the moment I'm using Darkvisions (the latest build) and it has a pretty good onscreen keyboard. It does have a lot of other apps too though. Look for the Lite versions of the Roms, that should give you plenty of internal memory (though depending on what apps are loaded in you may not have the biggest amount of RAM).
Cheers...
I ended up settling for TAI's Golden Globe Manilla 2D in the end, played around with Scotty93's S93 V4 and MrDSL's Titanium light as well, I'll have a bit more of a play around later as I was started to get disapproving stares from the wife