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Ok everyone,
There's been alot of movement both forward and laterally on the vogue-android project lately, and while it's all been great I'm having some concerns.
There has been alot of forking lately of the project. Different builds are great and I can't encourage that enough, but with all of the changes, and great developments being made to the rootfs and kernel we are losing alot of what made this project going great.
There's such a jumble of builds, out there right now it's getting confusing for everyone. So please guys can we move the project back to centralization?
By that I mean build threads are for system images only.
Changes to the rootfs's and kernel's are fantastic, but please can we make a new thread just for those?
As well to all the kaiser guys. Don't get me wrong I think it's great that so many of these files are working so good for you guys but can you keep development of your port to your forum, so there's less confusion for the new people? I've said it lots, if any of the kaiser guys wanna port over the builds I've ported to kaiser's go ahead, but please post them in the kaiser forum.
I'll happily keep the google code page updated with new bundles, that have been tested and confirmed stable, that page is not for specific people's work only, but for vogue/kaiser files that can be considered the standard files to use.
I support this.
well put. i feel the exact same way. i've given up till a bundle comes out cause im confused what is the newest or if it will work(not a fan of the kaiser now that they took over). I'm really hoping for more development on the android rom but im a script kiddie and no developer.. unfortunately
thanks for bringing this up
I could not agree more!
I've actually returned to running WinMo on my phone because I've become so lost in the Android project. There's so many different forks out there, and all sorts of random files being uploaded to Google Code, I have absolutely no idea what is what anymore.
It was going really well when vilord and dzo were working on it, now suddenly it seems both of them are out of it and the "vanilla" Android 1.5 builds are no longer being worked on. There hasn't been a basic "system" update in nearly a month now.
And to make matters worse, there's no clear explanation of what's what anywhere and nobody is posting proper change logs. So all these new files keep popping up with no word on what they're for and what's changed.
I just want to run Android on my phone, with no stupid skins, UI replacements or massive customizations of any kind... and I don't know how to do that anymore.
I'm not really sure why all this work seems to be focused on customizations right now anyways, when there are much more important things to work on like Bluetooth, aGPS, and a flashable ROM.
Yes, this is most definitively needed, not to stifle anyone's creativity, but to allow the maximum number of people to enjoy the project. Otherwise it's far too possible that all the various ports will just turn people off to Android, and it's far too important to allow that to happen. I've already asked mssmison to post whole, relatively stable packages so people don't get overwhelmed with all the various components and builds. Maybe a re-fresh of the packages every 2 or 3 weeks, along with the testing packages for all you brave souls to make it more user friendly.
I'm going to re-organize the google code page for vogue tonight so it should be more clear for everyone. vilord isn't out of the project, he just is moving
I've cleaned up the google code page a bit, I've depreciated some older downloads and the older bundle.
I keep all my builds separate and off the vogue-android page too keep it clean and focused on the main bundle there which is android-1.5-x. The test rootfs.imgs that I put out are only for testing purposes and are my personal experiments related to hero and they stay on vogue-hero. They do not apply to non hero builds and I try to state that in the threads I started for my other two non hero builds. I'm not supporting squashfs right now and I'm not going to be posting builds in squashfs right now. If people think that squashfs is the way to go then all images need to be in squashfs including android-1.5x builds. That would avoid the main squashfs rootfs/kernel/initrd fork thats going on with people downloading the squashfs base files. I don't support kaiser wifi builds of my hero images because they don't work for the vogue. I'll be taking down all kaiser/squashfs related files on vogue-hero until further notice and create vogue bundles of the files that work with each build.
i agree about too many different builds and files mixed together, it's really confusing to an average user like me who's sorta new to android. you devs should package up a zip with all the most stable, needed files for you specific builds so we can't mess up and download something that might not work right. myself i use my phone daily and for work, so i need stability.
mssmison said:
Ok everyone,
There's been alot of movement both forward and laterally on the vogue-android project lately, and while it's all been great I'm having some concerns.
There has been alot of forking lately of the project. Different builds are great and I can't encourage that enough, but with all of the changes, and great developments being made to the rootfs and kernel we are losing alot of what made this project going great.
There's such a jumble of builds, out there right now it's getting confusing for everyone. So please guys can we move the project back to centralization?
By that I mean build threads are for system images only.
Changes to the rootfs's and kernel's are fantastic, but please can we make a new thread just for those?
As well to all the kaiser guys. Don't get me wrong I think it's great that so many of these files are working so good for you guys but can you keep development of your port to your forum, so there's less confusion for the new people? I've said it lots, if any of the kaiser guys wanna port over the builds I've ported to kaiser's go ahead, but please post them in the kaiser forum.
I'll happily keep the google code page updated with new bundles, that have been tested and confirmed stable, that page is not for specific people's work only, but for vogue/kaiser files that can be considered the standard files to use.
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+1 to this! It's getting cluttered and confusing... BUT AWESOME!
stickus said:
+1 to this! It's getting cluttered and confusing... BUT AWESOME!
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Click to collapse
is it looking better now on the google code page?
whatever is in that new base files package really sped up my build from zen, ill tell you that much, now my phone recieves calls too. the only thing i notice is im back to the old style button map settings for adjusting volume and waking up the phone and such?
things look a lot cleaner on the google code page now... just DL-ing the new bundle you posted and we'll see how things go from there. Glad to hear that that old button layout is back, not really a fan of the newer one.
all i know is there is no lag to my build at all now, WOW...nice work guys!
fixxxer2008 said:
whatever is in that new base files package really sped up my build from zen, ill tell you that much, now my phone recieves calls too. the only thing i notice is im back to the old style button map settings for adjusting volume and waking up the phone and such?
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Click to collapse
All thanks to the bundle of files go to pmos, him and no one else. I just put together the system.
The button thing was accidental, however I have had alot of problems with my camera button not working intermittantly, we are working on a way of it being user selectable at boot.
I would also agree that some sort of organization is definitely needed. I think that system image threads should be condensed or organized in some way also. Having 15 threads, each with not too much information on what the build actually is, and info on the new update on page 15... just makes it hard for everyone. New comers and people who are experienced and trying to help others.
TheKartus said:
I would also agree that some sort of organization is definitely needed. I think that system image threads should be condensed or organized in some way also. Having 15 threads, each with not too much information on what the build actually is, and info on the new update on page 15... just makes it hard for everyone. New comers and people who are experienced and trying to help others.
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There are 5 threads for builds. One for the kernel.
welll my phone is still running good today with that new bundle that was posted last night.
im still getting used to the old style button mapping but to be honest i like it better this way.
I think this post goes in the wrong direction.
The best thing of Android is that devs from different mobiles are working toguether to improve our phones.
I´m a polaris user and in the development of android for polaris developers with different phones help a lot
What we need is an Android section as it´s being petitioned in order to develop all toguether. Of course with organization.
Let´s think as Android and not only as vogue
iseeka said:
I think this post goes in the wrong direction.
The best thing of Android is that devs from different mobiles are working toguether to improve our phones.
I´m a polaris user and in the development of android for polaris developers with different phones help a lot
What we need is an Android section as it´s being petitioned in order to develop all toguether. Of course with organization.
Let´s think as Android and not only as vogue
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Click to collapse
I agree but remember this is a vogue forum, so for the average user that comes here, they have a vogue. If you guys have a polaris dev get him to contact me and we'll look into making the bundles work right with your phones as well.
Again this is why I posted the poll to move the dev to another forum where we can have proper organization
Hi guys,
I have an idea in mind and would like to know what do you think of it:
Why not create a site/blog/page where every developer can upload his rom (with all the info) devided by categories (G1, mt3g (A, B), nexus, etc)
and people can report only bugs (not general questions like it happens here).
This threads can still be used for general questions, discussion etc, but the roms, compatibility and bugs can be easily find on other page!
I'm willing to help with it!
Android Spin?
on android spin you cannot add your rom instantaneously, cannot report bugs etc.
my idea is a more interactive thing...
MMartins said:
Hi guys,
I have an idea in mind and would like to know what do you think of it:
Why not create a site/blog/page where every developer can upload his rom (with all the info) devided by categories (G1, mt3g (A, B), nexus, etc)
and people can report only bugs (not general questions like it happens here).
This threads can still be used for general questions, discussion etc, but the roms, compatibility and bugs can be easily find on other page!
I'm willing to help with it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good idea.. but to be honest, I think devs are too busy atm with the 2.1 ROM bug fixes, etc. to go and sign up to a whole new page to check up on everyday.. I'm sure they already get private messages when it comes to bugs. Maybe your idea will work when the dust settles.. But right now, it's far too hectic around here to advertise and use a new dev page.
I really don't want this to come across wrong, but I just have to say it.
Developers, I appreciate all your hard work. I understand this is all beta/test/etc. I understand it is free of cost, even to those who did donate to one dev or another. You do it because you want to, not because you have to.
But please, for the love of all that's good - keep an updated list of Known Issues!
It sucks having to read 50 pages of posts to try to figure out if a particular release is reliable or not, to find out if there's a key feature broken or buggy. What makes it worse is you can't tell when reading these threads which users are on which release, because many still post issues after they've been resolved. Others post things that aren't really "issues" but user error.
You know what your issues are, you read the threads and you fix the issues. But trying to find a decent rom to flash is very, very difficult when your OP says "No known problems" and the thread that follows show that to be very untrue. It generates a lot of extra posts with people posting things you already know about, and it generates a lot of bad will when someone flashes something only to find that there are a number of game breaking issues.
All it takes is to update a post, say #2, in your thread, with KNOWN ISSUES. Once you confirm a bug, whether you intend to fix it on your next release or not, add it to that thread. It helps you, as a dev keep track of the bug, and it helps potential downloaders know what bugs have been confirmed and make an educated decision as to whether they want to install your release.
Hiding known issues is something I don't think anyone does intentionally, but it feels that way sometimes. It feels like devs are in a popularity contest, and any admission of flaws in their particular ROM is a weakness. Well, to tell the truth, I and many others are sick of installing something that was CLAIMED to be working perfectly, only to have glaring problems that have been there for many versions.
For a civil and productive development community. Please. Be honest with your known issues. It will go a long way in building trust with the people who you're providing ROMs to, and will mean fewer posts for YOU to wade through of users reporting known issues, without having read 500 posts first.
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
They don't care to list them. It's beneath some of them.
Maybe AirBus should list "midair exploding engines" as a known issue too...
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1. Hell, at work I run a $100,000.00+ software suite and even that company won't do what the OP suggests!
If you have a problem with them stop using their roms go back to stock and see how much better theirs is even with a few bugs, not one of you has any right to complain. They do damn good work for free with some donations that do not come close to what they should be paid for it but they do not whine at all.
The problem I find is the "spammy" and useless comments average and pretentious users make which is both hard for the developer and the end user to read the threads. A dev releases a ROM and there is a guaranteed "Oh I can't wait to flash this" comment that will pop up. And there are some issues that are minor and are sometimes not related to the release that are posted and some pretentious loser who extends his ego by trying to make simple matters complicated. This forum didn't much of this problem before and I could quickly flash ROMs easily since I could clearly grasp the status on the ROM project.
I wish they would start a new thread with new releases. It's a pain to try to read through a 500 page thread, and you comments about this or that, and you have no idea which version the person is talking about. I gave up on custom roms and just using the leaked tmo 2.2, thanks for that Eugene
kponti said:
Since the developers here are NOT getting paid (NO your $20 donation is not sh*t for the time it takes to make one of these roms), yes WE will have to bear the brunt of testing these roms out and letting them know what bugs if any are in them
The other issue is the people flashing these roms, coming from Eugene's to Whiskey to the ASOP roms may generate some ghosts in the software that the developers cannot duplicate themselves. I know that when I went with the TW 2.2 roms I had plenty of issues, more issues than I have had even when I was stock. Odining back to stock and reflashing the 4.2 TW fixed ALL my problems. Dont know what caused it but since I have flashed a couple of roms prior to that (no problems), I will assume there were some ghosts in my system. This is an example that unless a TW team member is holding MY phone and working on it, they may not be able to duplicate
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Click to collapse
A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
Update: Here is the link for the WIKI page.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
Posted a new Thread in Dev section for the purpose of reporting issues. So if you have an issue please shoot it to me and I will post it in that thread.
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You are in a heap of trouble, a lot of people don't read, and you are gonna get 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 repeats of the same issue.
"OMG! MY SD CAR DONES"T MOUNT< HELP ME!11!!111"
chui101 said:
I have a hard time believing that most devs actively hide them. Most of the time it's probably just a bit of laziness. But, yes, it would be helpful when comparing roms if the descriptions had a well-maintained list of active bugs.
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Click to collapse
The issue here is really that a forum is not the ideal place to manage software releases. A list of bugs emerges from community testing, but there's nowhere to "post" that list of issues, or attach it to a specific release. Since there's no way for the community to add such documentation, it falls on the ROM builder, who probably has other priorities.
This kind of project could be well served by using a real software project management software solution, such as say google code, which has an issue tracker and other useful features. But XDA does already give us a better tool than the forum - the XDA wiki!
I wish people would use the XDA wiki more extensively. This would be a good place to keep updated documentation such as this, without requiring the OP to keep a forum post updated with the latest findings. All the OP needs to do is link to the wiki page, and other people can help maintain it.
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
swehes said:
OK. Looking into Google Code.
(Update) So looking into the Google Code. What Licensing agreement are the ROMs under? Is it GPL v2 or v3 or another license?
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Depends on the project. The Linux kernel is GPLv2, so any kernels fall under that license. AOSP as a whole uses both GPL and apache code.
The issue with ROMs is that unless they're AOSP derived (like cyanogenmod) they often include binaries for which the license situation is murky at best, so google code isn't really an ideal fit for a "ROM" that's only ever released as a binary.
Really I was throwing google code out there as a well known example, there are tons of other ways to track issues. There are dedicated issue tracking systems such as trac, bugzilla, etc, but they require hosting. Most of the freely available hosted services require that you're running an open source project, which isn't necessarily true for the ROMs here.
IMO a serious project could very well benefit from such tools, but just using an XDA wiki page which community members can freely update is a great first step.
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
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Click to collapse
Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
Stargazer3777 said:
Not to be the "Spelling Nazi", and I am not even sure if you can change it, but it is "Kernel" not "Kernal". Also, the Dev on Team Whiskey is Sombionix, not Symbionix.
Otherwise, that looks like a great idea, and possible way of tracking things!
EDIT - I guess I could go ahead and make those tweaks, with it being a wiki and all couldn't I....
EDIT EDIT - Fixed it.
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Click to collapse
Thanks. On both accounts.
Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft
To quote "there are known, unknowns and unknown, knowns and and even sometimes unknown,unknowns............but.........
Developers ----develop they do not become a bookkeeper of their development.........that is coordinating work...........good luck getting any developer in ANY Specialty to do that............. reporting bugs........
---Maybe this should be a post to Microsoft---
N8ter said:
A $20 donation is not worth the risk of bricking a $550 phone just because they got "lazy" and didn't notify donators/downloaders of [a] potentially show-stopping issue.
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Click to collapse
I have yet to see a REAL (completely dead) "bricked" vibrant from flashing a released Rom alone. I have seen a lot of user error cause boot loops or "soft-bricks" & HWL phones become unflashable because the end user didn't take the time to research though. As far as devs being "lazy" I dont really see that when the developer is coming here for us to tell him what else we find wrong. They are coding, you flash, you report back with a logcat. This is how development is made to my understanding. If ppl are to lazy to JUST do this then why shouldn't the developer discount long winded post or something they are not experiencing? If they know there is a bug its in the OP.
If you guys can change the interwebz & how 500 post per update are made completely useless please feel free to do so....
swehes said:
So looked into the Wiki for the Vibrant and have updated some information. Let me know what you guys think. Is this the way to go?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Samsung_Galaxy_S_SGH-T959#ROMs
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Click to collapse
I think it's a pretty awesome start for sure
As a matter of personal taste, I think having an individual wiki page per ROM (with the known issues and other detailed info) might be nice, although I'm not sure what the policy on new pages is with the XDA wiki.
Speaking from professional experience, the most challenging aspect of any documentation system is always convincing people to use it. It's great to compile the information, but unless ROM builders and devs post a link to the wiki in the forum threads nobody will ever see it. Having good, community based documentation is a benefit to everybody though, so hopefully people will recognize the utility of it and encourage its growth!
Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
calyxim said:
Typical scenario is;
v 0.1 based on this and that.
v 0.2 changed launcher, added ringtones
v 0.3 new wallpapers, added ram script
v 0.4 added new market, added google+
Excuse me!?! This is not development. This is stealing!
I think these people should just wank instead of copy/pasting. Would be more beneficial for both public and themselves.
Rant over.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but if credit is given to original devs you can't really call it "stealing" cause Android is OSP after all...I'm no dev myself but it does seem many ROMs available are CM tweaks achievable with a few market downloads or simply AOSP with extra's...however sometimes certain ROMs begin as "Zip developments" and get later support with real devs and change fundamental features (kernels, code-base etc.) so it's not all bad...
Totally agree..........
But it's not the actual non-development of new roms that is getting on my nerves the most, its the constant *****ing and arguing through lack of understanding different languages etc etc..........
All i have to say is read the threads carefully as i've noticed some people who don't speak english very well get the hump on as they don't understand clearly what people are saying.
I know i've had my rants in some of these threads before and i don't blame anyone else for doing it too. I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks as our arguments are falling on deaf ears so whats the point, i'll just ignore the idiots making fools out of themselves by bringing us stuff we've already had for a long time and stick to what i know best.
What you've said is true Scratch...even if the ROM cookers do bring something new often nobody knows what that new stuff is because of the poor English. I'm not trying to insult them but I would recommend, especially with a specialized thing such as compiling/ making a ROM, the English needs to be clear and concise so everyone knows what is being released, what changes have been made and what's been modified. More often than not, as you say Scratch, people get upset because of a misunderstanding. Maybe those struggling with the language can consult friends/devs and ask exactly how to express something they've done in their ROM so everybody is clear on what's happening.
Scratch0805 said:
...I've managed to restrain myself the last few weeks...
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True, I have got quite a lot to say over this entire fiasco over the Android 4.0 "ports" and "source builds" that is currently playing out in the dev zone like a long dragging soap opera, but, its just not worth it, so, just let them argue over themselves who is first and who is the true dev and what not. Besides, it's not a good feeling when these Zip Devs accuse you of various stuffs when you speak out against them. It's extremely childish and irritating to read those posts, but I guess it can't be helped. Zip developers are not a localized phenomenon, they are everywhere, and since Android and ROMs like Cyanogenmod are Open Source, we have nothing to say, and have to live with it.
There's another new phenomenon which is playing out and can be seen on pretty much every ROM. Someone gets a ROM to boot / work at a basic level, create a thread and build up major hype and hoopla on it, and EVERYONE of these "devs" proclaim "I need help to do this and do that./..... bla bla bla". Zip dev is not such a big issue per se, but, the level of intellect is terribly low among the "devs". I believe most of them are what? 12-13 year olds, and, they act their age perfectly, unlike someone like Jacob.
/End Rant
Case in point, after Arco has announced his intentions and the fact he already has a working port in progress:
I was first, it was my idea, I continue and basta.
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Enough said.
Ahah, doing small things for the buzz (pun intended), acquiring a fame in trolland
Lol, I've made myself clear on this too.
" the ability to read is good,
the ability to understand what you've read is great "
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...om-developers-i-think-we-need-to-have-a-talk/
3xeno said:
dragging soap opera.
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Don't you mean aosp opera? Hehe...okay, I'll stop with the bad jokes.
And I fully agree with the topic. Anyone can open up any rom .zip paste in some apps, reflash and repackage it as your own.
Agree with this. Sadly I'm one of the offenders, that will have a moan at people developing zip-roms. I accept that this isnt the greatest way to deal with people on forums like theese. But it seems the only good way to get my point across to people that aren't that great at english.
Although, I must add one thing. I've seen roms get tossed around the development forums like mad. It seems to go like this in the dev. forums.
People create a booting rom. Or compile a new one.
People add a few fixes, someone creates a spin off.
Original dev discontinues rom, other 'developers' ask to continue it, even when they have projects in hand.
Someone picks up the pieces months later. After even the re-contiuned rom is given up with.
People spin roms off from there.
All i can say is dear god. I have been reading all that threads last few days and i was frapped how people are shalow in glorifying them selves and their so called development skills. I didnt want to coment anything cauze i have run into such argument once before with someone who was constantly refusing to understand what i am saying and i dont want to do it again, so i leave my thoughts here.
So people should get on the ground for change and start doing something usefull instead of make dozen threads, first when you dig something, than another one when you are asking if it can be done and finaly one when you "do" something. What they have done is nothing. They are just thanks chasers. In last few days there were more new roms than it was for whole Wildfire lifetime.
I remember tje days when there was just three or four roms and they worked, you hear me, they worked. So stop posting such s**t unles u did something that is realy worth it.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium
Yes you are right, zip development is horrible. Lately there has been a major rise in "new" roms that have been hitting the development thread. I swear I have seen at least 5 to 10 roms all based on CM7 or oxygen. And what's different? It's "fast and stable" "Is themed to look like ICS" "Has a script that I actually don't know what it does but it must do something good". And its "my" rom because I grabbed a rom.zip from a device that runs oxygen smoothly and added the boot.img and the build prop right from the CM7 rom.zip and then cooked it and I posted it under MY account so its MY rom. There is a problem though, my genius copy/paste skills on my computer that took forever to build up are limited to actually being able to fix problems with things like Bluetooth and GPS, etc. So what do I do then? Hell I request "help" to fix the problems and once a genius like acro or another real dev comes in and fixes it for me, I take the fix and say it was all MY work. AOSP stands for ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT. The source is open to anyone that can use linux terminal (that's half the problem). The other problem is that no one could be bothered taking the time to actually learn a skill. They want to do something now, and now only. They won't spend hours and days learning how to program in java or C because it takes "too long" and just wants to begin this so called "deving" now. This is a rant about zip development, but wait you say, I do .zip development though? Yes I do, but what I am talking about is .zip development that is based on a .zip that is actually OPEN SOURCE. If something is OPEN SOURCE there is no point in taking a compiled .zip and "porting it" to our device. You do this because its easy for you to hit download and copy and paste, but you don't "have the time" to setup a download of the source and compile it to a rom. Zip development that is for CLOSED SOURCE on the other hand is way different. HTC, MIUI, etc. are all roms that have no open source code so all the work has to be done based on a .zip. Since the code is not available this is the only option. This in my opinion is the only kind of good .zip development since there is no source to build from. I would love to download the source and mess around with the ICS source and try to compile something but my computer is got really bad specs and my internet is so slow. I will just leave that kind of work to acro and the real devs
I agree with this. Looking through the more recent Wildfire ROMS, I can see a pattern for most. So, I have started to come up with a fight back, for individuality and mostly, for a better mobile experience. It would mean a lot if you could help me out with THIS.
Sorry to ask in this thread, but I thought it might be a good idea
Before I get accused of zipfile developing, I only compiled an edited kernel for the ROM to allow touchscreen to work a little.
I am not a "zipfile" developer and I am not going to be, my interest is in kernels.
I happened to come to xda at the wrong time, first thing kaassaus did was ask me to follow a tutorial to get touchscreen working (which took all of 20 seconds).
I think posting an ICS zip is okay FOR NOW because there is no OPEN source for the wildfire for it, and Arco is NOT breaking the GPL because he hasn't redistributed it yet.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire
We are not accusing anyone. My point is dev section is not a learning section. Those who want to learn development can pop into chefs section instead of releasing a rom with 2 zillion bugs.
There is a reason for this forum is not called xda-tweakers. Because our devs are devs. They are not steve jobs like tweakers.
2nd rant over. Class dismissed
Okay, Zip development is not so bad, actualy is needed in some points. For flashing kernels or some other things. But look at some of that AOSP-fast and stable roms. What do they bring us? Nothing. It is just repacked CM nightly or stable. To "develop" such rom you need WinZip and in best case Android SDK if they decide to decompile and recompile few apps instead of treating them with winzip too to change few icons and voila, NEW ROM. Better yet someome will take any theme and implement it into framework.And he will be so proud because his rom has diferent look. What else we can still expect is ES file explorer instead of OI, Miui galery, themed keyborad, different font and unforgetable scripts which do god knows what. They are the main part. Is that a rom? No it isn't my dear friends. Its a disrespect to any real developer here. All that we already have. We have themes, we have scripts we have everything that flashable and we dont need another yet ****y rom to tell us what is fast and stable.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium
I don't find anything wrong in updating an already present ROM's with new applications update ,... even though i must say there is a trend in past few weeks that lot of ROM's in buzz section were merely identical and there was no development in them
I was browsing the old threads of the Dev Zone, and came on this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=884659
Amazing, right? It's deja vu all over again.. (PS - Don't bump that please. lol)
I am a noob, and I know I will never be as experienced as other developers.
That is why I do not develop ROMs, and develop things I am good at.
I thought that this section was unique crap for Galaxy S2. Looks like we will have same **** soon.
anonymous572 said:
I thought that this section was unique crap for Galaxy S2. Looks like we will have same **** soon.
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huh?
im yet to see what this section is for too
panyan said:
im yet to see what this section is for too
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Yea ive seen it on other sections before, But I dont fully understand it
What the hell is 'original development' ??
What is the current development ? Un original ?
whats with the need to add un-necessary sub sections ? It just fuels confusion
Maybe "original" means "real". So there will be a chance to distinguish between cloning/adding/tweaking from development
Do we need / want it ?? I think we should open up a poll and pass the results on to the mod(s)
We had a similar thing in the HTC One S forums, Where they added a subsection for Tmobile Versions, It was totally un-needed as there were no differences between the 2 devices. We made a poll and the section got removed.
Sometimes these things do more bad than good, As if the flashing procedure isnt difficult enough already, What with the brickbug and all that.
If you think its a good idea to remove it, Ill open a poll before the section gets full with stuff.
Why not wait a little bit and see what it should be used for?
One Mod will explain sooner or later...
lets just hope its something useful
Is it so hard to understand? All stuff about original roms goes in there.
What do you mean Original ROMs ? Things like Stock TW ROMs ? Or does that include Custom ROMs too ?
Only in the SGS2 threads the 'original' section is full of custom ROMs and kernels too.
I mean this device is almost 12months old, We've survived without it.
Im just old fashioned Change freaks me out
Confusing?
Hate It?
Simply Don't Open It
anonymous572 said:
I thought that this section was unique crap for Galaxy S2. Looks like we will have same **** soon.
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wish you could enlighten us on how it was a unique crap and a **** for s2 then?
original = stock = cooked roms
the other thread will be for "really" developed roms i.e, aokp/aosp/cm9 variants
So if some one builds a ROM based on Cynogen Mod from scratch..will it be in original section or since its from CM it will be in Development
btw this was the rule posted there
The following are most likely “Original Development”:
Official releases of highly original and upstream custom ROMs (built from the ground up with significant original development within them
Official releases/development of such original ROMs, perhaps posted by the maintainer or their nominated person.
A significant “first” in development for a device. Significant is subjective, but it is likely something which took considerable time/effort, and is generally accepted by developers to be significant and non-trivial.
Kernels which are built with beneficial changes that are not simply pulled from other kernels already available. Some element of original work is expected.
Tools and utilities with a clear purpose, and which are well-made, and useful to users. They should have an element of originality, either in purpose or through significant improvement in the means of operation.
Significant port of a ROM from one device to another, giving enhanced features or functionality to users of the target device. The port should be beneficial (a port from two virtually identical devices isn’t original development, it’s winzipping, and nobody really benefits from this, as it’s not development)
The following are most likely not “Original Development”, and should be posted in the “Android Development” subforum:
Your own “unofficial” stock build of your favourite original, source-built (or otherwise) ROM, particularly where an official or maintainer-endorsed thread exists already.
Minor derivatives of other ROMs with little or no changes, or ROMs consisting of “placebo” features as a main constituent or claim.
Renames or rebadges of others’ work – these don’t belong on XDA at all! Refer to rule 12 for more information.
Reposts of existing ROMs with small changes (i.e. kitchen work, such as adding a couple of apps). If you could realistically distribute your changes as an “addon pack” above and beyond a ROM, you should do so. In addition, your “ROM” would not be original development as it would be substantially identical to the original ROM.
A thread created with unrealistic goals that are clearly unachievable by those starting the thread. This is not intended to discourage high aspirations, rather to prevent threads porting Windows Phone 8 to the HTC Wallaby. This is pretty much common sense.
A ROM where a main or significant claim/feature is graphical changes to the user interface (ie. Themed ROM)
i get the idea to separate the genuine development from the WinZip one, but it may not be that easy in practice to distinguish those lying somewhere in between
See Here
XDA, the moderators and the powers that be.... have been wrestling with trying to differentiate the Difference between the Code-writing Development and the Quasi-developers that use rom cooking tools.
To that end we will be going through the development threads in the next couple of weeks and moving the appropriate threads that meet the original code requirement to be placed in this new forum.
Please bear in mind that this is a "Work in Progress" and will take a bit of time to hone and perfect what goes where.
Also, please understand that this does not mean that some developers are on some special pedestal. That is not the case.
I will use an analogy to explain:
A music composer writes an original piece of music. The music composition may be awesome... but his performance of it, may not.
Such often is the case in developers..... often someone comes up with a awesome idea or new code application, but it often ends up being perfected by the use of others putting their creative spin on it.
That is the beauty of The Android Platform and ....XDA provides a fertile field for all to share ideas and collectively improve our experience
I hope this clarifys the potential questions
Thanks from the Moderators
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At the end of the day everything is built from something else but what they are getting at is ROMs that are just other roms with maybe a new theme and tweaks taken from else where would just be in the normal development.
But if you came up with something new and different (not just a rehash of other peoples work) then it should go in original development
Now its starting to make sense, well ive always reverted to one particular rom (cleanote) so i guess i wont be affected.
maybe its for the best, there are a lot of similar roms out there so it might make life easier.
Im still adapting to the new xda theme, any more change after this and i might self destruct.
Want me to start a poll?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA Premium App
azzledazzle said:
Now its starting to make sense, well ive always reverted to one particular rom (cleanote) so i guess i wont be affected.
maybe its for the best, there are a lot of similar roms out there so it might make life easier.
Im still adapting to the new xda theme, any more change after this and i might self destruct.
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sahilarora2003 said:
Want me to start a poll?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA Premium App
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It makes alot of sense, will make it easy to find new and 'bigger' development work against the small tweaked roms which while important are starting to fill up the forum
It was tested in the S2 forums and has been rolling out XDA wide so theres not alot a poll will do, in honour of the hitch hikers guide of the galaxy, the plans have been on show for quite some time, if you can’t be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that’s your own lookout.