Database Users

Phone reset itself! Any idea why?

I have an O2 XDA2. I just took the phone out of my jacket pocket to find that it wanted me to calibrate the screen. It went on to take me through the whole set-up wizard and then I found that all my data and installed programs had been lost
I'm guessing the phone decided it wanted to reset itself!
Does anyone have any idea why this might have happened so I can avoid it happening again?
The phone had plenty of battery power (approx 80%). It had plenty of space space (approx 28MB). I hadn't recently installed any software although I did uninstall Pocket Money on the weekend. I also created an IMAP email account then but I've had no problem with the phone since then until now.
Any ideas? Thanks very much

would prob be a good idear if you stated the rom version you are using

Sorry, It's 1.60.00 WWE
I have never upgraded it as I haven't the first idea how or what the implications are.

the latest officail rom is 1.72
if you get that from their site you will not get warrenty issues
when i used 1.66 i had lockups from time to time
after i got 1.72
i havent had any issues

I don't really feel comfortable upgrading it as I haven't the first idea what to do.
How do you normally reset a device? Is it something I could have done by accident?

there is a little hole in the buttom of it in the right corner if you press that using something thin like the stylus while you press the on button
then it hardreset
but there is software which let you do it as well
the upgrade is really pretty simpel

Thanks very much. I know the reset button, I use that every now and again. There's no way I could have pressed it and the on switch by accident given tha the phone was in an otherwise empty jacket pocket.
Oh well, I guess my phone just had enough of life. I'll look into upgrading the ROM when I feel a bit more adventurous

Fabulous...My phone has again decided to reset itself out of the blue.
I have no idea why it does this but it's a pain in the rear. Has anyone seen this before? Does anyone know if there's anything I can do to prevent it? (other than upgrading to the Universal when it comes out!!)

And it's happened again...seems to happen approximately once a month.
Has this spontaneous hard reset issue not happened to anyone else?

I suffered this audacious curse only to find that by removing my 1gig sd card remedied the problem.
I'm wondering if the sd card draws too much power/resources or whether I have a dodgy sd card.
Either way, without it I'm flying. I pop it in when I need to use my TomTom and as it's on charge in the car cradle it doesnt matter about resource usage etc.
So, try removing your sd card and see what goes

SD cards seem to be causing all sorts of problems. I kept getting the eternal spinning timer when copy, paste or deleting files, if the card was inserted. Did a soft reset today to be met with the calibration screen as from a hard reset. Such fun isnt it. :roll:

Hi Guys
Thanks very much for your comments. Unfortunately it isn't the cause as I have had my SD slot empty for a while now (my SD card is in my new car radio/MP3 player )
I'm starting to think that after 15 months my XDA2 has decided that it's had enough of the world. My colleague told me that it's seeking revenge as it's heard me salivate over its younger sister (the Universal).
As you say having the phone hard reset itself is a whole lot of fun!

I have the Sprite Back Up programe so all is not lost - it creates an exe file on the SD card that you locate and select thus restoring everything just how it was before it was lost

one can also just have activesync do an inc backup at each sync
and if the device hardresets one can connect as guest and restore the backup from ones normal profile

The nice thing about the Sprite software is that you can restore when you're out and about unlike the active sync method which means you need your pc close by

HELP! TyTN freezes/hangs on startup

Hi!
I really need help right now. This is second time my TyTN goes wild this way.
I can start machine allright and I can put PIN-code in but little bit after TyTN hangs totally. It does not respond to anything.
Even hard reset is difficult to do because you have to be so quick to push buttons before systems freezes.
There is no extreme programs or any changes made after last hard reset.
1. Can I do something now on the road?
2. What have I done wrong that it goes wild like this?
Please help ASAP if there is something to do now without HR.

I dont think the freeze can stop the hard reset ... You should be able to HR even when your TyTN is frozen till the ice ages ...

This is not the....
This is not the main issue. I can Hard Reset... but what went wron in the first place? And twice in one week.
Few decent program installations and using ActiveSync in two machines... I think that is the reason somehow... But how to prevent this happening constantly.

Most likely, one of your programs is screwing it up .. You need to figure out which one it is ... Setup one by one manually and see what happens ..
Also, try installing SPB Pocket Plus .. that has a manual safe startup mode .. see if you are able to start up your TyTN in the safe mode .. instead of doing a hard reset everytime ..

_mike_ said:
Hi!
I really need help right now. This is second time my TyTN goes wild this way.
I can start machine allright and I can put PIN-code in but little bit after TyTN hangs totally. It does not respond to anything.
Even hard reset is difficult to do because you have to be so quick to push buttons before systems freezes.
There is no extreme programs or any changes made after last hard reset.
1. Can I do something now on the road?
2. What have I done wrong that it goes wild like this?
Please help ASAP if there is something to do now without HR.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just another thing to check along with suggestions above. Do you use a storage card. If so does it still hang with the card out. And secondly is there a decent amount of on board memory free.?
Mike

gravejoker said:
Most likely, one of your programs is screwing it up .. You need to figure out which one it is ... Setup one by one manually and see what happens ..
Also, try installing SPB Pocket Plus .. that has a manual safe startup mode .. see if you are able to start up your TyTN in the safe mode .. instead of doing a hard reset everytime ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Had this happen on a Prophet it turns out it was one of the 3rd party software apps installed, the author updated it and no more issues.
I would bet the same thing is happening to you on the TyTn

yer i agree with mark i had same prob with my htc tytn turn out to be a 3rd party bluesnafing tool

What program that...
...might be?
Nothing starts on startup. I mean nothing special that my friend does not have. And he has no problems at all.
My guess still is that problem is ActiveSync. Because in freeze I can see part of ActiveSync window. And ActiveSync starts automatic...
Is there way to prevent ActuveSync on startup?
Thank you for your replys.

_mike_ said:
...might be?
Nothing starts on startup. I mean nothing special that my friend does not have. And he has no problems at all.
My guess still is that problem is ActiveSync. Because in freeze I can see part of ActiveSync window. And ActiveSync starts automatic...
Is there way to prevent ActuveSync on startup?
Thank you for your replys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
_mike_ I wouldn't be that dismissive of that advice. Usually, just where you think your sure you have everything covered in a particular area so theres no need to check, thats usually where your problem is.
The fact is that you and your friend have two different phones. Are the model numbers, lot numbers identical? Did you both in stall the exact same software with the exact same version numbers?
I'm guessing that you missed something there.
You need to be patient and thorough when figuring our these issues.
The best advice to find the answer to your problem has already been given.
Start with a base WM5 build and your ext ROM software. Remove your memory card.
Spend at least a day or two in base config. This will certainly tell you if its the phone or the software.
If your phone stays good, add one of your programs to the phone and wait another day.
repeat this until you find out what's causing the issue.
It's not quick or fast, but it's effective.
Good Luck!

l3G3ND said:
_mike_ I wouldn't be that dismissive of that advice. Usually, just where you think your sure you have everything covered in a particular area so theres no need to check, thats usually where your problem is.
....
It's not quick or fast, but it's effective.
Good Luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are right. I'll do that. Thank you.

_mike_ said:
I think you are right. I'll do that. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let us know how you make out.

So what happened with this issue?
Mine has started doing this right after I installed pRSSreader and subscribed to BBc news feed
I took out storage card, soft reset and was quick enough to disable the today screen plugin for the offending app and then uninstall now everything's okay.
Maybe problem was caused by installing pRSSreader to the storage card confused:

Quad said:
So what happened with this issue?
Mine has started doing this right after I installed pRSSreader and subscribed to BBc news feed
I took out storage card, soft reset and was quick enough to disable the today screen plugin for the offending app and then uninstall now everything's okay.
Maybe problem was caused by installing pRSSreader to the storage card confused:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There was an issue with pRSSreader 1.3.2 I believe. It happened to me. I was able to disable the today plugin and recover, but it took a few tries. It's supposed to be fixed in the latest version.

Freeze TYTN
I had the same problem after installing Nots Push mail 3 party software.
Each SR make my TYTN freeze.
I have used Memmaid in order to remove it from the startup program
It has solved the problem

Mine hung after installing and uninstalling psShutXp. After uninstalling, I kept getting a notification error message whenever I turned it on concerning psShutXp. Then, it just locked up for good. No amount of soft resets, powering off/on helped. After a hard reset and reinstall of my favorite apps, back to working fine.
I do occassionally lock my phone by accident and I get a little freaked out the next time I use it because nothing works. Then, I realize what I did and that I'm a moron and everything's good again.

URPREY said:
There was an issue with pRSSreader 1.3.2 I believe. It happened to me. I was able to disable the today plugin and recover, but it took a few tries. It's supposed to be fixed in the latest version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just checked and that was the version I installed.
edit - according to their website 1.3.2 is the lates version

Hi,
I now have the same problem. I have only a view programs installed. Each softreset hangs at the windows mobile screen.
As I don't like a hard reset everytime, my workaround is to enter the bootloader and do a softreset from there...
Is it cleared in between, what is causing the hangs?
good night
dsp

Im getting a similiar problem with mine after not having added ANY new software recently. Mine hangs at the HTC screen, and no matter whether there is:
A) sim card and microSD card
B) microSD card only
C) sim card only
D) neither
in the machine, it still just hangs at the HTC screen on startup (regardless of whether its a soft or hard reset), and doesnt even make the startup tone, or play the animation, all it shows are a few digits and such in red at the beginning. PLEASE HELP!

Mine has it too
I know its a year later, but has anyone found an answer for the Freezing / not booting / not starting of the phone?

One reason is if you have a BS rom installed. You need to install a stock NBS rom (make sure radio is stripped out or you will have to reflash yours) the reflash your BS rom. Make sure you back-up your contacts and messages first.
Cheers...

Rebuilt Wizard - now worse than before!

I desparately need help! I finally got fed up missing calls because my MDA Vario wasn't ringing or because it crashed when I tried to answer. I've had a problem for a while, in that after a day or two it will mysteriously stop making any noises. No menu clicks, no voice directions in TomTom, no notification sounds and worst of all, no ringing when a call comes in. The only fixes are to reboot or to go into Sounds & Notifications in Settings, go to the Notifications tab and then change the volume up or down! It's then fine for another day or two.
I finally got fed up and did a hard reset last week, put my data back on through ActiveSync and then reinstalled the following:
Opera
TomTom 5.21
Total Commander
SmartsKey
Omapclock
I set SmartsKey to overclock to 240mhz and used Total Commander to edit the registry and switch on caps indicator, enable the various caches as suggested in in the wiki, and to set GPRS to always on (as I'm on unlimited data). No other changes, no other software. I did install the trial of SPB Mobile Shell, but then removed it because I didn't like it. I'm on the standard T-Mobile firmware, ROM 2.21.2.6 WWE and I've not unlocked it at all.
The phone worked like a dream for a week or so after the hard reset, but now it's started doing the same thing with the sounds again! Furthermore, if I'm using TomTom it doesn't override the power save settings - so it turns off the backlight after 2 minutes and then turns off the phone after 5! It didn't do this before!
PLEASE can anyone help before I throw the thing out of the window and buy a Symbian smartphone!?
Thanks in advance,
Tim

Can nobody help?
Nobody have any ideas? Am I really the only one with this problem!?
Tim

What rom r u using,
that could be the problem.
tell me the rom, radio version

tj80 said:
I desparately need help! I finally got fed up missing calls because my MDA Vario wasn't ringing or because it crashed when I tried to answer. I've had a problem for a while, in that after a day or two it will mysteriously stop making any noises. No menu clicks, no voice directions in TomTom, no notification sounds and worst of all, no ringing when a call comes in. The only fixes are to reboot or to go into Sounds & Notifications in Settings, go to the Notifications tab and then change the volume up or down! It's then fine for another day or two.
I finally got fed up and did a hard reset last week, put my data back on through ActiveSync and then reinstalled the following:
Opera
TomTom 5.21
Total Commander
SmartsKey
Omapclock
I set SmartsKey to overclock to 240mhz and used Total Commander to edit the registry and switch on caps indicator, enable the various caches as suggested in in the wiki, and to set GPRS to always on (as I'm on unlimited data). No other changes, no other software. I did install the trial of SPB Mobile Shell, but then removed it because I didn't like it. I'm on the standard T-Mobile firmware, ROM 2.21.2.6 WWE and I've not unlocked it at all.
The phone worked like a dream for a week or so after the hard reset, but now it's started doing the same thing with the sounds again! Furthermore, if I'm using TomTom it doesn't override the power save settings - so it turns off the backlight after 2 minutes and then turns off the phone after 5! It didn't do this before!
PLEASE can anyone help before I throw the thing out of the window and buy a Symbian smartphone!?
Thanks in advance,
Tim
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you thik it maybe hardware not software!!!! Maybe your phones has a fault that comes and goes. I would take it into the shop to see if has a fault!

Can I suggest that you start with the basics. Do a hard reset but reset it before the extended ROM can install. (If you don't have a stock operator ROM installed nows a good time to do it). Don't install any software at all. It might sound a bit boring but it is important to establish if you have a hard ware or software fault.
Now run the fone for a few days and see if the problem returns. If it doesn't start to add your apps one at a time until you find which is the culprit. If it fails to work with the basic stock ROM you most likely have a hardward problem.

Going for repair
Thanks for the replies, all. As the phone is a year old in June and will therefore be out of warranty I spent 45 minutes this lunchtime on the phone to T-Mobile to get it sent for repair! They were fine about it, just deeply inefficient. Anyway, a prepaid bag is on it's way for me to send back. Any ideas if they will try to repair or just swap it out with another one? I imagine a fault like this which might be software or hardware and which only manifests itself after a few days will be more trouble to fix than it's worth? Anyone had any experience of getting one repaired?
Thanks again,
Tim

yeah, I had been p[laying about with roms for a few weeks and after what I think may be water damage or a drunken drop, my screen stopped working.
Take into account it was christmas time but still I received a brand new phone but had the old battery cover haha. They replaced the stylus too. My old phone was battered and screen was scratched so I was totally happy with the 3 week wait.
No questions asked although I did return my rom to exactly the one it came with, i was unable to re cid lock it.
Overall give T-mob time and it seems they replace phones ok
i did take mine into a t-mobile shop so don't know if that makes a difference (time etc) and was not covered by t-mobile insurance but my bank account has free phone insurance as back up
Hope that was of some help
Paps

WM5 vs. WM6 for 8525?

I read that there's lots of tweaks for WM5 for the 8525, but then I seen mention of a WM6 available, too. I presume it's a free upgrade on the AT&T website, or elsewhere online.
Now for the questions. Which OS works best for this device? Do the tweaks made for WM5 work with WM6 as well? Should I upgrade to WM6, or stay with WM5? For the GPS (maps), does it work with both or just one of the options?
Now for other (off-topic) experiences I have with my new [reconditioned] device.
a) After inserting my SIM card, about an half hour later, I attempted to call an 800 number (to activate a new bank debit card), which it didn't fully connect the call, although the call timer was running. It wouldn't let me end the attempted call, either, so I removed the battery and reinserted it.
b) Exploring the device further, I noticed that some menus didn't close when I tap the "red X" in the corner. I even tried to expand (pull out the keyboard on) the device, but it shows the "red X" of the location from portrait. as well as from the landscape! For example, it wouldn't close the "selecting which size to send photos" option screen. After waiting about a minute, I had to remove the battery to get rid of those screens, which is a major pain to keep removing the battery!
c) Later on, the last phone call that I made wouldn't hang up (end call) -- I even tapped 'End Call' about 5 times, not to mention pressed the red phone icon on the main navigation keys about 3 times. I haven't used the device since, except to place my old Samsung Sync's memory card with pictures, songs, and videos inside it.
The device seems very slow to close/end programs, and I've just received it yesterday! [I have not hacked, tweaked, or done anything else to it, either; I've only set the time, date, and owner's info.] Is this normal for the 8525? Would installing the WM5 tweaks [HTweakC 2.1b] -- or updating to WM6 -- increase the device's response time and overall performance? Or do I have a still faulty, reconditioned 8525?
Sorry for the long questions, I just wanted to give background into the device. Thanks in advance for all help in this matter!

You seem to be way behind as you use WM5. First thing you do after reading this: UPGRADE TO WM6.1
Most tweaks of WM5 will ofcourse work on WM6. WM6 is faster and much much better.
Do you know about soft-reset? No need to take out the battery! Just soft-reset.
And most of your problems of hang-ing can be solved by newer version of Windows Mobile! WM6.1
In case if your new to upgrading, you may read my small guide. If your completely new to Pocket PC, this might help you too. Also, consider using a free taskmanager such as wkTaskMan to close applications completely.
Regards,
Carty..

Carty, thanks for the quick reply!
As a brief background, for about the past 6 months, I was infatuated with the HTC Tilt [8925], because of the built-in GPS, Wi-Fi, 3-MP camera, & media player. Later, from reading other opinions on the 8525 on this board and discovering that it was compatible with GPS services, I decided to "sacrifice" the 3-MP camera, as the 8525 was about $100 cheaper on eBay.
I am pretty new to the Pocket PC, as my cellular device; I have used computers since 1996, though. That being said, it's not even been 24 hours since I've tinkered with the 8525 (as the eBay one never worked at all). I take it that the 8525 is an older device, as I've seen posts dating back to 2006. I just bought one on eBay 2 weeks ago, and had it replaced at an AT&T repair/replace shop yesterday.
I see the reset button on the bottom of the device; I just didn't know when to use it. I presumed it could only be used if the device wouldn't turn on at all. [As you can tell, I'm overly cautious with my new cellular equipment.] Also, I read about the "hard reset" -- holding down the 2 option buttons on the front and then the reset on the bottom of the device; however, I didn't know when to use the hard reset, either.
I will read your tutorials, then will install WM6 ASAP. Then, I will return with my findings. Wish me luck!!

Now I'm having issues with the update of WM6! The device stalls at 11%, then the software returns with the following:
"ERROR [262]: UPDATE ERROR
The ROM Update Utility has encountered communication errors during the update process. The program will guide you step-by-step to recover from the errors so you can continue with the update."
I tried the [Recovery] button 2 more times, following the screens to the letter, but with the same result . . . the software stalls at 11%.
Any ideas? This is very frustrating!!

Man, I finally got it to install WM6! I had to literally remove every single program that was running under my "name" with the XP-MC OS. I even had to "Ctrl+Alt+Delete" the Explorer program and then "open" it (via Task Manager) again! [I didn't restart Windows, though.]
So far, it's back to the align screen, so I'll hope all goes well from there! Be back with more later!

I've made one phone call so far, and it actually did the end call promptly! Thank goodness for small favors! I thought having to do the "flash" about 6 times would have fried the device!
Now that I have the WM6, how do I install the tweaks? Do I copy them to a memory card, to the cell ROM, or something else? I already downloaded "HTweakC 2.1b" but haven't done anything with it yet. What would be my next step to correctly hack the WM6 8525 that I have now? I am a novice at hacking, so talk in layman's terms and please bear with me!

Help, my Wing keeps constantly soft reseting.

I need you guys help real bad. Went to go use my phone when I noticed there was a gap between icons on the bottom tray of the phone. I tapped the space there to see if it was something there with no icon, but nothing happened. I figured I'd soft reset to see if that icon would go away. Now my phone has been soft reseting itself over and over and over for the past half hour. I can't get into my phone now. It loads the T-Mobile screen, loads the Windows Mobile screen then shuts down and repeats the process. Please tell me there is something I can do to fix this. I need my phone.
If it matters, I had installed some software prior to this, but nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Thanks in advance.

Try removing your SD card if you have one installed then soft resetting. If not then I really have no advice & wish you luck!

As mrbelvedere stated removing the memory card(if you have one) might fix it. If not you might have to reflash your ROM. You can d this by going to Bootlader mode (Hold CAMERA button and reset with stylus.) and flashing like normal from there.

Haven't gotten a chance to try either of your suggestions yet (I'm still at work and left my phone home) ut if I have to reflash my ROM, what exactly does that entail? I'm pretty novice when it comes to things like this so if I do like stated above, is it a pretty straight foward self explainitory process? And am I correct in assuming that if I hard reset, I lose everything and start completely fresh?

Well, you guys both helped me and unfortunately the answer isn't good. Removing the storage card did the trick, it finally stopped continously rebooting. However, a few of the apps that would load off the SC didn't load (which I could probably fix later) but then another error would pop up and this one said "No language dat file". I would press the ok button but the phone would just lock up and freeze and I'd have to pull the battery just to shut it off. Tried it a few more times, same thing every time. Did a little research and it seems this is caused by having Fizz Weather installed on your SC, which, of course, I had did not to long ago. Every article I read basically said I need to do a hard reset to get rid of this problem. I'm resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to start fresh, which in a way is a good thing because I can start clean and not download all the bull I previously had on my Wing (I was a new app fiend!), but I do have a few quick questions if you'd be so inclined.
Also, I don't have a sync cable, just a memory card reader so I can't do any ActiveSync stuff.
1. I did have SPB Backup on there and do have about 2 recent backups, however all I really need off them is my contact info, because I would like to start fresh. After I hard reset, do I have to reinstall SPB Backup to run the backup, or can I run it on my fresh Wing with out it.
2. What do I do about my Storage Card? I know I can just copy my movies, music, tsk files and extra stuff to my computer but what about the program files of apps I installed to the storage card? Do I just delete that folder? Should I delete the whole card and start fresh there as well? How exactly does that work?
Sorry for all the questions, but this is my first time having to do a hard reset and I don't want to screw up my phone any worse than I apparently already have. Thanks in advance.

FatBoyExtraordinaire said:
Well, you guys both helped me and unfortunately the answer isn't good. Removing the storage card did the trick, it finally stopped continously rebooting. However, a few of the apps that would load off the SC didn't load (which I could probably fix later) but then another error would pop up and this one said "No language dat file". I would press the ok button but the phone would just lock up and freeze and I'd have to pull the battery just to shut it off. Tried it a few more times, same thing every time. Did a little research and it seems this is caused by having Fizz Weather installed on your SC, which, of course, I had did not to long ago. Every article I read basically said I need to do a hard reset to get rid of this problem. I'm resigned to the fact that I'm going to have to start fresh, which in a way is a good thing because I can start clean and not download all the bull I previously had on my Wing (I was a new app fiend!), but I do have a few quick questions if you'd be so inclined.
Also, I don't have a sync cable, just a memory card reader so I can't do any ActiveSync stuff.
1. I did have SPB Backup on there and do have about 2 recent backups, however all I really need off them is my contact info, because I would like to start fresh. After I hard reset, do I have to reinstall SPB Backup to run the backup, or can I run it on my fresh Wing with out it.
2. What do I do about my Storage Card? I know I can just copy my movies, music, tsk files and extra stuff to my computer but what about the program files of apps I installed to the storage card? Do I just delete that folder? Should I delete the whole card and start fresh there as well? How exactly does that work?
Sorry for all the questions, but this is my first time having to do a hard reset and I don't want to screw up my phone any worse than I apparently already have. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, I would get a data cable for your phone, and then get the latest version of ActiveSync. This way, you can transfer files easily, plus, you can backup all your data/contacts. Plus, if/when you want to flash to a better rom, it's easier this way. You are going to want to reformat your flash card. Just for the time being back up all files on your computer, and flash it that way. Doing a hard reset isn't difficult or bad, but you will lose all data stored on your phone. It just basically reinstalls the original operating system, so it will be like you turned it on for the first time. Do you know how to do a hard reset? After this is all said and done, I would start looking into flashing to a different rom. The one that comes stock on our phones SUCKS.

Yeah, I definitely will be looking into a data cable now. Ironically, I was just looking at docking stations with the cable attached right before my phone went down. As for the latest version of AS, do you mean for the PC or the phone? I figured I should clear the storage card as well, since nothing will be linked to it anymore. The only thing I'm really mad about is losing my contacts, but hopefully spb backup will fix that. I do know how to hard reset, was reading up on it all night. I'm going to do that, see if all goes well, if it does, I'm going to buy that docking station then probably ask you about flashing! Thanks again for the help.

Sorry to post again, but I have yet another question. My friend has this ( http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Mad-...oid/199058/catOid/0/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do ) and no longer uses it. It looks like the ports are the same as my Wing. Could I use that as a active sync cable?

Nevermind, I'm an idiot. Was looking for a HDMI cord in my junk wire box under the bed and, low and behold, what do I find? Not 1, not 2, but 3 usb sync cables! I'm such an idiot! I hard reset, lose everything and now I find the cables. Oh well, you live and you learn. Besides, I can start fresh and get into this flashing business.