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Hello everyone. First of all, let me congratulate all of you who have made this incredible site. I've been reading your threads for 3 weeks and finally i wanted to make my first post. I didnt wanted to be a stupid post so thats why it took me 3 weeks to make it.
I got my first Hermes 5 days ago (yes i searched for info about hermes 2 weeks before i got it) and it is everything i always wanted/needed.
I live in a city called Temuco in Chile (A southamerican country ) and this toys are very expensive even if its a 2 or 3 years old toy like hermes).
When i received my Hermes i was ready to flash roms and got everything to do it, thanks to you guys),
I'm very pleased with some of your roms and now im using [OPTIMIZED Manilla2d][20755 09/29](AlmostNak3d)(V8) by joshkoss.
The only subject that worried me was.................... Battery life, so i did some searching and thats my first post about. Hope you guys find it usefull. I know there are some battery related posts around but wanted to make some conclusions about the subject.
Here we go.
I've been searching and reading different articles about optimizing a li-ion and li-ion polymer battery, as they basically behave the same way.
In recent days i've been thinking a way to keep my battery life longer.
What i first thought, and without any knowledge, is what i've heard all my life: "A fast charged" battery lasts shorter than a "slow charge" battery.
In some battery chargers there are two ways to charge batteries. Slow and fast. And i always feel that slow charge was better than fast, so i thought.
My Hermes charger is 5V 1A.
If i charge my hermes through USB (Which i think has less than 1A) my battery should be "better charged" and the charge should last longer.
I never quite tested this but as a normal "battery user" it sounded more logical to me.
So i searched on google if there was any information about li-ion batteries and its characteristics.
I went to www.batteryuniversity.com and what i read astonished me.
Battery Conclusions
1.- Lithium batteries are completely different than older nickel based batteries.
2.- Lithium is a very unstable element and behaves abnormally when overcharging and overdischarging.
3.- According to batteryuniversity, "Overcharging makes the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame."
4.- Over-discharging is as dangerous as overcharging. According to batteryuniversity, if discharged, "Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells, leading a partial or total electrical short. The cell becomes unstable. Charging such a battery would cause excessive heat and safety could not be assured."
5.- Lithium batteries are usually overcharge and over-discharge protected.
6.- You shouldnt use chargers different than the manufacturer's one.
7.- End of story and End ob battery thoughts.
I (we) just have to live with that.
The Li-on cells for my Makita tools are charged on a computer controlled charger. It reads temp and level of charge and charges accordingly. Manufacturers estimate 3000 charges before the battery is dead, and this after fast heavy discharge that can make a battery too hot to hold and fast charge that takes 22 minute on a 3ah batttery from fully flat to fully charged.
The people who use Li-on at the edge of their accepted use, the radio control flyers, use computer controlled chargers that read the same parameters and more. Many of their chargers read individual cells and balance the charge. Again, after use, the batteries can be too hot to hold.
In a phone or a laptop we use a wall wart the same as any old nicad. I dont know if any clever stuff goes on inside the laptop or phone to regulate charge level according to battery condition but I don't think so. We get about a year out of a laptop that is trickle charged. I'm on almost 2 years for my Tytn with no discernable drop in life but I think I've been lucky, it seems to be about a year for many people. So that's 365 charges, approx.
My guess is that it's charger technology rather than battery technology that limits our battery life.
The Hermes does have a battery sensor. It can be screwed up though when you go below a certain level (<10%), hence people who have trouble recharging a TOTALLY flat battery. The Hermes sensor doesn't detect a battery giving a red LED.
I don't know anything about battery...
I'm currently have a problem with a battery or power-related. My X01HT have just 1 day life in use. I was try it with different second-hand battery, but it likes first condition when only life in 1 day. Hmm.. may be which is the wrong? The battery or the phone?
I have 2 set of X01HT, next time I will try to exchange the battery from both of it. I want to test their battery life to compare and make conclusion about which is the wrong between the battery or the phone.
My tested phone have radio version 1.14.01.10 and have unlocked with NextGenServer. I am using the newest Pays ROM Full. IPL: 1.04. SSPL: 2.60 (Olipro). I have experienced using Pays ROM in twice, first which already sold and the second is this case. Both of the have the same radio version. I think the first one is okay about the life stability, but this one have a problem. May be ROM have influenced the battery life? Or may be IPL/SSPL have caused instability too?
Sorry guys, about poor in English. May be I need to make a thread to share my problem with you.
Thanks.
Hermes are battery hogs but some programs can be power leeches too.
If the radio rom isn't good for your area it also can be a power drain as it is constantly scanning for connection.
I tend to find about 2 days is all my battery lasts for with a little bit of use. Depends what you are using....
Cheers...
I have 3 pieces of SoftBank X01HT.
One of them just fine in the life of the battery, so network here is fine too (maybe). But this one is already sold, so I can't test the battery to my another X01HT which have a critical power problem.
Another X01HT so sleepy, the life of the battery just 1 day. I was try to replace the battery with another battery (2ndhand and I don't know the condition actually) but it have no change, just 1 day too, may be less... Now I try the third battery. I'll reported soon about this...
So how about your opinion about critical power in the X01HT? May be there is another factor beside the battery? Beside the program/OS? May be some physically probelm with their board or etc?
Sorry about poor in English.
I can't say much about the X01HT... All Hermes internals should be the same, but they may put extra things in or take things out depending where you buy your Hermes.
So saying, the Hermes, if not all HTC phones, seem to use a large amount of power. If you use apps it will of course discharge faster.
Sometimes it can be as simple as changing the radio rom but this is risky as the radio rom tends to be permanent brick if something goes wrong with the flash.
Maybe an app you have running and don't realise, I had a BT program that did this, had to shut it down or my battery was down to 70%in about an hour or 2.
Cheers...
I tend to leave it on charge over night, then use it during the day (Browsing, comms etc..).
But then I charge it again halfway thru the day in case I run out of battery if I'm out late at night (more comms). Even if half left.
Then the cycle gets repeated..
Buy a spare battery or is this even more detrimental?
You have nothing to worry about as Li-Ion batteries (what the HD uses) do not suffer from the memory effect (which is what you're worried about). Top charging will have no negative affect on the battery. Whatever max battery loss that you might loose overtime is equivalent to if the battery was never used or used 100%-0% every time. Probably after a year or two you may want to get a new battery as the old will no longer hold quite as much charge as it did originally.
Interesting! i do the same thing Panos was worried about that.
not anymore
Paul.
I got my HD just before Christmas. Initially my battery life was very good lasting 2-3 days on one change.
For the past 3 months I put the phone on charge every night.
I've just had to buy a new battery; it now only holds charge for a few hours of continuous use and after an overnight charge only reaches about 80% capacity.
I know the boffins say Lithium Ion has no memory but my battery is trying to evolve and develop a memory
2-3days! u couldnt have been on the wap wap then?
or was u? mine lasts a day, thats going on wap for like 3 hours, calls, text.
Paul.
"but my battery is trying to evolve and develop a memory"
hehe
well maybe your batt was just ½ defect to begin with and then got worse and worse
So to confirm again, even if the HD reaches 50% battery life, i can recharge back to 100% with no problem?
Damn i've always heard it to be the other way round. I always hear about people complaining when they leave their nokia phones on charge overnight only to last less and less.
no matter what you do batteries get worse and worse
½defect poor ones sooner then good ones
thanks guys for response.
I've heard different methods but get confused with lith/li-onetc..
I've heard even with this type its best to run down completely once a while in order for it to "calibrate".
as long as its not too damaging I don't mind charging.
after all what's the point of such a kick-ass screen if I don't take advantage of it.. the whole day!
battery
ofcourse that ture HD battery is not that good as before previously it use to give 1.5 days. every day charge worries me aswell in first few months it use to give battery life equally even if its first 90-100% or 0-10% but now 20% battery is not realiable aswell.
panos123 said:
thanks guys for response.
I've heard different methods but get confused with lith/li-onetc..
I've heard even with this type its best to run down completely once a while in order for it to "calibrate".
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That's Ni/Cd batteries you're thinking of.
Any lithium battery will hate you for running it down completely; you'll harm it and it won't "calibrate" because of it.
ive done the charging overnight method on pretty much all of my phones and have never noticed any dramatic change?i have been told you need to discharge the battery completely once in a while??
bonesy said:
i have been told you need to discharge the battery completely once in a while??
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Didn't I answer this in the post before yours?
Don't completely drain a lithium battery.
A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its service life is dependent upon aging (shelf life). From time of manufacturing, regardless of whether it was charged or the number of charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and predictably in "capacity". This means an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This is due to an increase in internal resistance, which affects its ability to deliver current, thus the problem is more pronounced in high-current applications than low. This drawback is not widely published. However, as this capacity decreases over time, the time required to charge it also decreases proportionally. Also, high charge levels and elevated temperatures hasten permanent capacity loss for Lithium ion batteries. This heat is caused by the traditional carbon anode, which has been replaced with good results by Lithium titanate. Lithium titanate has been experimentally shown to drastically reduce the degenerative effects associated with charging including expansion and other factors.
At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion battery that is full most of the time at 25 °C or 77 °F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in for example a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to a prolonged exposure to much higher temperatures, which will significantly shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.
In essence, a battery stored at half capacity will last longer, but ofcourse you want to use it at full capacity. It's an inherent drawback.
Also, Li-ion batteries are not as durable as nickel metal hydride or nickel-cadmium designs, and can be extremely dangerous if mistreated. They may explode if overheated or if charged to an excessively high voltage. Furthermore, they may be irreversibly damaged if discharged below a certain voltage. To reduce these risks, li-ion batteries generally contain a small circuit that shuts down the battery when discharged below a certain threshold (typically 3 V) or charged above a certain limit (typically 4.2 V).
wow dude you are Gordon Freeman
Whoah! Thanks for that.
can you just clarify one more thing though?
I know the battery tells itself to stop charging once full but how about operating the device whilst charging?
It gets very hot so how bad is this in short term? Dangerously bad?
Holy Bear said:
Didn't I answer this in the post before yours?
Don't completely drain a lithium battery.
A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its service life is dependent upon aging (shelf life). From time of manufacturing, regardless of whether it was charged or the number of charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and predictably in "capacity". This means an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This is due to an increase in internal resistance, which affects its ability to deliver current, thus the problem is more pronounced in high-current applications than low. This drawback is not widely published. However, as this capacity decreases over time, the time required to charge it also decreases proportionally. Also, high charge levels and elevated temperatures hasten permanent capacity loss for Lithium ion batteries. This heat is caused by the traditional carbon anode, which has been replaced with good results by Lithium titanate. Lithium titanate has been experimentally shown to drastically reduce the degenerative effects associated with charging including expansion and other factors.
At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion battery that is full most of the time at 25 °C or 77 °F will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery in for example a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to a prolonged exposure to much higher temperatures, which will significantly shorten its life. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.
In essence, a battery stored at half capacity will last longer, but ofcourse you want to use it at full capacity. It's an inherent drawback.
Also, Li-ion batteries are not as durable as nickel metal hydride or nickel-cadmium designs, and can be extremely dangerous if mistreated. They may explode if overheated or if charged to an excessively high voltage. Furthermore, they may be irreversibly damaged if discharged below a certain voltage. To reduce these risks, li-ion batteries generally contain a small circuit that shuts down the battery when discharged below a certain threshold (typically 3 V) or charged above a certain limit (typically 4.2 V).
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Really nice info, thank you for that.
panos123 said:
Whoah! Thanks for that.
can you just clarify one more thing though?
I know the battery tells itself to stop charging once full but how about operating the device whilst charging?
It gets very hot so how bad is this in short term? Dangerously bad?
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not really, i used to have Xperia, and you have to see how that one gets hot!
really HOT, specially Charging + WiFi or GPS!
but nothing happens.
plus high temps (if i remember correctly) something more than 60c so it's so far from there.
good cos I kinda like it.
Like one of hand warmer things you get from a camping store..
Id like to have another question?
Is it OK if I do this?
Sometimes I put my blackstone on charger. It charges up to eg. 80% but I need to go to lunch (I forgot to mentioon that I am at work). So I pull out the charger take the phone and after hour I return and put the phone back on charger...is this bad?
Thanks.
No, that should do no harm to your battery.
But think about the USB jack. Don't plug it in and out 100 times a day.
My old phone's USB jack lost its stability after the 2 years due to that excessive use.
I have another issue. Don't know if it has been discussed on another thread. The battery indicator on the Touch HD is not lineal at all. Once you're below 50% if drops quickly. 20% and 10% are almost inexistent, I get the alert of low battery a few minutes after seeing the battery at 30%.
I had a HTC TyTN II before and at least the battery indicator was more lineal. In the Touch HD I try to charge before it goes below 50%.
From what I have seen, most battery life comparisons/stats are usually done with the phone in standby/screen off majority of the time.
I decided to do it the other way.
Last night to this morning:
I tried charging my battery to 100% but time constraints only had me charge it to around 84% (late for work).
I don't use/have a charger at work nor do I have one in my car. I work 8 hours straight (11pm - 7am) and I almost always stream pandora the entire time.
I am using the seidio extended battery and the only thing that stays off is wifi when I am not within range of any kind of open network (starbucks) or my own saved connection list. 4g/3g, gps, and background data are constantly on.
So, from 84% left the house and started streaming pandora in the car. Get to work about 15 minutes later with no interruption in streaming (just turned the volume down). I do shut off my screen while streaming when I put the phone in my pocket.
Surfed the web, watched some youtube videos, checked gmail and facebook (which auto sync about every hour and gmail notifies me of every single email I get), and played some games here and there (nothing great) throughout the night.
Basically my intent was to never let the phone sit and do nothing. The entire time pandora was streaming (browsing the net and streaming, checking gmail/facebook and streaming) but youtube would always stop pandora.
Got 8 hours of constant use. I don't want to say moderate/light/heavy as that scale changes from person to person. Moderate for one person may be heavy for the next.
I charged the battery in the phone because I don't have an external charger for it. Although I may get one because my charging method still involves me taking the battery out of the phone.
No task killers, no setcpu (I am rooted), no custom rom (from the dev forum).
I am using bakedsnack kernel #4, launcherpro, and I have personally uninstalled a crap load of stuff (even htc sense and rosie altogether).
My opinion is that all these gimmicks that we have to go through to get good battery life while in standy are not necessary. What is necessary is for the charging system in the evo to be revamped. This is my own opinion, but I think the charging system in the evo skips stage 2 of the charging process http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm which is why (this is what I think, I am no expert) so many people see the sudden drop from 100% down to whatever shortly after they unplug their charger.
It kind of makes sense as to why some people who charge their stock batteries in the ebay externals get better battery life, it's because they are actually being charged properly.
Again, this is just my opinion and I am in no way an expert on this. Just disclosing my experience and observations of my phone and it's behavior. Take from it what you will.
That's pretty amazing dude. Me personally would consider your use for this test to be pretty heavy. I'm more than impressed to see 37% battery life. And from what I've been reading up on the external charger is definitely the way to go. Although it's quite a pain to have to charge our evos like this just for maximum battery life. Hopefully in the future releases of phones we won't have tis do things like this. As mentioned in another post the switching of the battery to charge it will eventually make the back door loose or maybe even break sooner than planned, which is a problem for people who don't have extra doors. I guess it's not a bad investment to buy extra doors though.
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lovethyEVO said:
From what I have seen, most battery life comparisons/stats are usually done with the phone in standby/screen off majority of the time.
I decided to do it the other way.
I am using the seidio extended battery
My opinion is that all these gimmicks that we have to go through to get good battery life while in standy are not necessary.
It kind of makes sense as to why some people who charge their stock batteries in the ebay externals get better battery life, it's because they are actually being charged properly.
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Click to collapse
Here is my take and i edited your post down to the points i am discussing.
First I like the fact you realize most battery tests and many of the people getting ridiculous battery life are idle most of the time (even if they say they are moderate use normally they have 1-3 hours of moderate use out of the 30 hours battery life they claim). I think showing actual usage time is much more impressive.
Now if you are going to do a battery post and talk about opinions and what your battery life is ... i don't suggest using an extended battery. you show that over aprox 8 hours of use (wont classify it as heavy moderate etc since you didnt) you lost about 50% the problem here is the extended battery from seidio has a much larger capacity then your standard htc battery that comes with evo (even if it doesnt actually have the 3500mah it is still a lot more). On a est i did i could play a movie on a stock battery for just over 5 hours before the battery drained using nothing but the stock install of a rom and without changing settings to turn things off etc. So in my opinion the battery life you are showing is actually a little low for that battery but that not really the point.
now as for the evo charging incorrectly. the reason why peoples batteries drop quickly the first 20-30 minutes (for most who have a correctly calibrated "battery") is because EVO doesn't have a trickle charge. this doesnt mean the evo isnt charging the battery correctly. the idea behind not having a trickle charge is it helps prolong the life of the battery it self at the cost of 0-10% charge depending on where it is when you take it off the charger.
While i personally would rather have the trickle charge and have to buy replacement batteries more often. it isnt that the evo charges incorrectly it. They jsut made the choice to try to make the battery itself last as long as possible at the cost of some battery use time depending on when you take it off the charger.
These are my latest seidio 3500 numbers with correct battery conditioning. Going to try and duplicate these numbers. Most of about 10 hours was slacker and pandora. This was from 100 to 14 percent on 3500 seidio. Pics for your pleasure and debate. I was able to get another 8 hours standby from this point and hour of lets golf before battery died. That was my 2nd conditioning of the battery. Going on 3rd full slow trickle charge up now. The trickle charge on battery wall charger takes about 12 hours wtf but worth it. I just use my cheap china 3000mah to cover the time.
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omegasun18 said:
Here is my take and i edited your post down to the points i am discussing.
First I like the fact you realize most battery tests and many of the people getting ridiculous battery life are idle most of the time (even if they say they are moderate use normally they have 1-3 hours of moderate use out of the 30 hours battery life they claim). I think showing actual usage time is much more impressive.
Now if you are going to do a battery post and talk about opinions and what your battery life is ... i don't suggest using an extended battery. you show that over aprox 8 hours of use (wont classify it as heavy moderate etc since you didnt) you lost about 50% the problem here is the extended battery from seidio has a much larger capacity then your standard htc battery that comes with evo (even if it doesnt actually have the 3500mah it is still a lot more). On a est i did i could play a movie on a stock battery for just over 5 hours before the battery drained using nothing but the stock install of a rom and without changing settings to turn things off etc. So in my opinion the battery life you are showing is actually a little low for that battery but that not really the point.
now as for the evo charging incorrectly. the reason why peoples batteries drop quickly the first 20-30 minutes (for most who have a correctly calibrated "battery") is because EVO doesn't have a trickle charge. this doesnt mean the evo isnt charging the battery correctly. the idea behind not having a trickle charge is it helps prolong the life of the battery it self at the cost of 0-10% charge depending on where it is when you take it off the charger.
While i personally would rather have the trickle charge and have to buy replacement batteries more often. it isnt that the evo charges incorrectly it. They jsut made the choice to try to make the battery itself last as long as possible at the cost of some battery use time depending on when you take it off the charger.
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50% loss over 8 hours of near constant use (my awake time shows that it did manage to sleep somehow even though I streamed pandora constantly) on any battery (extended or not) is actually a good thing as it shows that even with the phone fully bogged down (almost all radios on) it can last a full work day (which is what most people are concerned about).
I still believe the evo does not charge the batteries correctly and it is not solely related on the absence of a trickle charge.
Again, from my observations over the course of the past three weeks. I started with what my battery was calibrated to according to the phone. Let it drain down to about 15% (according to the phone) and wiped the battery stats and did a different charging method from the htc "rain dance".
Here is where my opinion of the evo not charging properly comes into play.
From 15% to 100% charge (charged while phone and screen are on to monitor voltage, temp, mA draw, etc.) took about an hour +/- a couple minutes. As soon as the led turned green (yes, I literally sat at my phone watching the percent slowly rise) I unplugged the charger and noted the resting voltage level and percent (according to three seperate battery status applications). Once noted, I powered down the phone. After the screen completely shut off I removed the battery and tested the voltage. I did this for my own information because I wanted to verify the phone itself was actually reporting the voltage levels correctly. It was.
Now, recall that I had just charged the phone to 100% and had wiped battery stats prior to charging.
Replaced the battery back into the phone and powered up. Normally people see a jump in battery percentage when they power down and back up. Not in my case. To my amazement, the evo reported my battery as being at 78% charge level. So I went from being 100% charged down to 78% percent charge all from powering down, removing the battery, checking voltage, and then replacing battery and powering up. Time to power down, remove, check voltage, replace and power up is somewhere around the one minute mark +/-.
Again, referencing the link I provided earlier about charging li-ion batteries, the evo seems to skip stage 2 of the charging process which usually results in about a 70% charge (according to the link).
Charged it again from the 78% mark to 100% and the charging time took just over an hour to get back to 100%. Same routine, check voltage on phone, power down, remove battery, check voltage on mmeter, replace battery, power on, check levels.
Second time around I dropped from 100% charge to about 89%. Voltage levels were always accurate. Charged again and took about another hour +/- and finally achieved a charge to where it would not fall or rise between a power down (97% seems to be my cap which is fine since I don't want to truly charge the battery to 100%).
To test the discharge rate I tried my best to keep the battery running condition identical for each discharge run.
I monitored the battery temp, cpu temp, battery voltage, amp draw, and cpu load.
Streaming only pandora and nothing else I usually managed to keep the amp draw to around 300 - 360mA with the screen on. This was my way of measuring the discharge rate without access to equipment that could give the battery a steady discharge load.
Every time the percentage dropped one I would note the volts, temps, amp draw and cpu load. Across the board temps and cpu load remained close to constant as the phone wasn't doing too much multitasking.
At this point, I have about 4 full voltage readouts from 100% down to 15%. Without wiping battery stats, if I charge the phone with my method (charge to 100%, power down, remove battery, replace battery, power up and recharge) my past voltage readouts coincide with my battery readouts on the phone (87% falls within a certain voltage range and so on) but if I just charge the battery until the phone says it's 100% then the readouts on the phone no longer fall within my past readouts until I go back to my charging method. This tells me that if I let the evo charge the battery the way it is programmed to (hardware or software) then it is not actually charging the battery to its full potential (not necessarily 100%).
Across the board the cpu load and the temps rarely drastically changed as it wasn't running multiple tasks at once. This is just my own observations and tests that I did/started doing for my own intellectual reference.
I have done the same charging method with my wife's evo and stock battery (1500 htc oem). I wiped her stats but only managed to get two full voltage readouts with her phone. She has stated that her battery does last longer than before and she is only rooted to remove bloatware. She is running stock rom, stock kernel, no task killers, no memory managers, and her radios and settings are close to mine (she gets more mail and facebook notifications than I do).
Again, this is just my opinion and personal observations. I did this solely because I got tired of having to constantly turn things on and off just to use them. My past phones never had this problem and I don't think the evo should have to be babied just to get good battery life. I still believe it all lies in the charging system of the phone and not necessarily the battery (extended versus stock).
Hey, what battery conditioning did you guys do? There's a ton of different suggestions and I am wondering if one or two have finally been proven to not be placebo.
I decided to do the HTC charging method when I changed roms to cm6. I went into hboot after and wipe stats. Turned on and took about 20 minutes to get to 98% using internet. Anyways I let phone die. Plug it in and I have system monitory with history monitoring. So I go to bed, and wake up to expect 100%. Nope 80%. Checked the monitor and trickled from 80% to 70% for 2 whole hours. I did the HTC thing again for full charge. Repeated. Only charges to 80%!!!! I changed roms. Same thing.
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martyzidek said:
I decided to do the HTC charging method when I changed roms to cm6. I went into hboot after and wipe stats. Turned on and took about 20 minutes to get to 98% using internet. Anyways I let phone die. Plug it in and I have system monitory with history monitoring. So I go to bed, and wake up to expect 100%. Nope 80%. Checked the monitor and trickled from 80% to 70% for 2 whole hours. I did the HTC thing again for full charge. Repeated. Only charges to 80%!!!! I changed roms. Same thing.
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Your situation also points to my opinion that the charging system on the evo does not charge correctly. I am also thinking that the battery stats dont play a huge role but I still jave more monitoring to do.
I also prefer the constant-use benchmarks, and did one myself as well. Charge to 100% and then stream DI.fm using XiiaLive (96Kbps MP3) through WiFi (router in same room) + full brightness + screen ON (no timeout). My poor Evo lasted 3:55 before forced shutdown . Btw, running Fresh v3.1.0.2 with netarchy v4.1.8-cfs, no SetCPU or any other "battery saving" tools.
frifox said:
I also prefer the constant-use benchmarks, and did one myself as well. Charge to 100% and then stream DI.fm using XiiaLive (96Kbps MP3) through WiFi (router in same room) + full brightness + screen ON (no timeout). My poor Evo lasted 3:55 before forced shutdown . Btw, running Fresh v3.1.0.2 with netarchy v4.1.8-cfs, no SetCPU or any other "battery saving" tools.
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I am at work now and when I get home I plan on charging the stock battery as best as I can and doing another constant use run to satisfy the crowd who run the stock battery.
Don't charge your phone overnight! When it gets really low, slap it on the charger for a couple hours until you've got 85-90%. Unplug and enjoy fantastic battery life. I have gotten about double normal battery life (approximately 48 hours) using this method. I'm on CM6.1, mind you, so it may be some quirk with the ROM.
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk Pro.
Ive been saying this for a while. I charge up my phone to about 96% and i let it go till almost 5% before i throw it back on the charge. That usually gives me 12 to 18 hours. A lot of people tend to get "battery panic" and throw it on soon as they see it draining a bit. Just leave it alone.
I charge on a wall charger. I have three batteries and change daily. I get 22-24 hours and 5-6 hours of hard use.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Here are my observations:
The Evo seems to have a peculiar way of using external power. Once the battery reaches full-charge the external power apparently gets shut off and the phone operates on battery power until the battery level drops to somewhere around 85-90%. Then the charging current switches back on until the battery level reaches 100% again and the process repeats itself. This differs from more conventional scenarios where the phone actually runs on the external power (rather than the battery) once the battery reaches full charge.
I came to this conclusion while playing with my Evo while it was plugged into the charger. First I noticed that the charging light would cycle from green to amber and back every so often. Then I noticed that the battery level indicator would drop even while the charger was plugged in.
So I started checking my battery level in the morning before I removed the phone from the charging dock and discovered that it was rarely at 100%. I'm convinced that the phone does get charged to 100% when I put it on the charging cradle, but then it sits there running off of the battery until it drops to that magic ~85-90% level and the charging current is reestablished.
But a typical night on the charger isn't enough time for the battery level to drop enough to re-start the charging current and if I come along and just grab the phone, I'm starting my day with a battery which isn't completely charged. In my case, the only time this doesn't happen is if my day ends real late and the next morning starts real early.
Once I had a good idea of what was going on, coming up with a work-around was simple: One of the first things I do when I get up in the morning is look at the charging indicator on the phone. If it's amber I do nothing because the phone is already in charging mode. If it's green I remove the phone from the cradle for a moment and put it right back on. Most of the time the indicator will switch from green to amber when I do that, but if it doesn't I'll go online and read the news or something for a few minutes before I put the phone back on the cradle.
Either way, the phone will then charge for 30 minutes or less before the indicator goes green again. By then I'm done with my morning routine and ready to face the day, and when I grab the phone it's fully charged.
My Evo is out-of-the-box stock (for now). It's a hardware version 0003 and has firmware v. 3.29.651.5. I typically leave my Bluetooth turned on all the time, but I leave 4G, WIFI, and the GPS turned off unless I need 'em. My typical daily routine involves several phone calls, some email downloads and uploads, some incidental web browsing, and some geocaching if a new cache is published within a few miles. As long as I stick with that typical routine, my battery is always in the 40-50% range when I put the phone back into the cradle for the night. Of course if I use the phone more it discharges the battery more, but I'm set up to charge it at home, at work, and in the car.
Now despite everything I've posted here, I can't imagine any practical reason to not top off the battery whenever it's convenient. Letting the battery run down before you charge it doesn't have any effect on how long a full charge will run the phone. In fact, it will actually reduce the number of charge-discharge cycles that your battery can provide before it starts losing capacity. I don't want to type it all again, but if you're interested you can CLICK HERE if you'd like to learn more about LiPo battery characteristics and maintenance.
'Nuff outta me
Pete
the evo charges to 100% then cycles to 90% then back to 100% so that it does not explode from over heating thats why when you grab your phone in the morning it might say 93% rather than 100% i dont mind though cause i dont want my phone to blow up
ThatTmoGuy said:
the evo charges to 100% then cycles to 90% then back to 100% so that it does not explode from over heating thats why when you grab your phone in the morning it might say 93% rather than 100% i dont mind though cause i dont want my phone to blow up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a lot more inclined to believe that it's either an engineering error or a half-baked idea with undesirable consequences. The reason I say that is I've had countless other cell phones and consumer electronics devices which used LiPo batteries for power, yet the Evo is the first device that I'm aware of which operates like that. The rest will stop charging when the batteries are fully charged, but they'll continue to use the external power to run the device as long as it's plugged in.
Pete
PGRtoo said:
I'm a lot more inclined to believe that it's either an engineering error or a half-baked idea with undesirable consequences. The reason I say that is I've had countless other cell phones and consumer electronics devices which used LiPo batteries for power, yet the Evo is the first device that I'm aware of which operates like that. The rest will stop charging when the batteries are fully charged, but they'll continue to use the external power to run the device as long as it's plugged in.
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the purpose is to prolong the battery life so it doesn't charge again every time it drops to 99%.
--
Sent from my HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk Pro.
TheBiles said:
I think the purpose is to prolong the battery life so it doesn't charge again every time it drops to 99%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently my point is just blowing right past everyone.
For most modern consumer electronics devices the charger can serve at least two functions which are charge the battery and run the device. These functions are remotely related by virtue of the fact that the power comes from the same source, but the functions themselves are typically quite independent of each other. In other words, most devices can run off the charger's power regardless of whether the battery is being charged or not, and when the device is running on the charger, it's not drawing power from the battery.
But it appears that the Evo doesn't do things that way. In essence, it seems like the Evo is hard-wired to the battery and the charger is incapable of independently powering the device when it's not charging the battery. So the battery reaches full charge, the charging circuit shuts off, and the phone starts draining the battery despite the fact that the charger is still connected. Once the battery drains to ~85-90% the charging circuit kicks back on, the battery gets charged back to 100%, and the whole process repeats itself.
Consequently it's a crapshoot whether our Evos will be fully-charged when we take them off of the charger unless we take some additional steps. I can deal with those extra steps, but I can't come up with any practical reason why we should have to. No matter how long I analyze the situation, I can't see any benefit to doing things that way except, perhaps, to save on manufacturing costs. All I can come up with are annoying extra steps and unnecessary battery charge-discharge cycles, and I can't grasp how those benefit anyone.
I see that you and I have carried some of the same phones in the past, TheBiles (Sanyo 8300, Treo 650, Hero) and I don't remember any of those phones coming off a charger with anything less than a full charge unless I interrupted the charge cycle. In fact, I'm convinced that no phone that I've ever carried has had this problem. The Evo is the very first one which is why I suspect some folks at HTC are quietly saying oopsie.
Pete
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Pete, I'm not convinced most smart phones actually power themselves off of the wallcharger when plugged in as you seem to think. I have no real evidence to back this up, though - other than my own observations.
I will say that the EVO's method isn't as isolated as you seem to think. For example, the Palm Pre which I owned for a year previous to the EVO operates in the exact same manner.
The Pre would hit 100%, stop charging, operate on battery power until it dropped to 95%, then charge from 95 back to 100. The EVO, however, drops down to 90 before it starts the charge cycle again. This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
This might be your first phone that operates this way, but it certainly isn't unique to smartphones or HTC.
PGRtoo said:
Apparently my point is just blowing right past everyone.
For most modern consumer electronics devices the charger can serve at least two functions which are charge the battery and run the device. These functions are remotely related by virtue of the fact that the power comes from the same source, but the functions themselves are typically quite independent of each other. In other words, most devices can run off the charger's power regardless of whether the battery is being charged or not, and when the device is running on the charger, it's not drawing power from the battery.
But it appears that the Evo doesn't do things that way. In essence, it seems like the Evo is hard-wired to the battery and the charger is incapable of independently powering the device when it's not charging the battery. So the battery reaches full charge, the charging circuit shuts off, and the phone starts draining the battery despite the fact that the charger is still connected. Once the battery drains to ~85-90% the charging circuit kicks back on, the battery gets charged back to 100%, and the whole process repeats itself.
Consequently it's a crapshoot whether our Evos will be fully-charged when we take them off of the charger unless we take some additional steps. I can deal with those extra steps, but I can't come up with any practical reason why we should have to. No matter how long I analyze the situation, I can't see any benefit to doing things that way except, perhaps, to save on manufacturing costs. All I can come up with are annoying extra steps and unnecessary battery charge-discharge cycles, and I can't grasp how those benefit anyone.
I see that you and I have carried some of the same phones in the past, TheBiles (Sanyo 8300, Treo 650, Hero) and I don't remember any of those phones coming off a charger with anything less than a full charge unless I interrupted the charge cycle. In fact, I'm convinced that no phone that I've ever carried has had this problem. The Evo is the very first one which is why I suspect some folks at HTC are quietly saying oopsie.
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. This is clearly going on, and I'm surprised more people don't talk about it. I put Cyanogen on mine the day I got it, so I thought that was the issue, but I went back to stock (for a day) and it did the same thing. The light goes off after 90% and it stops charging at 100% until it drops below 90%. I also agree that it doesn't seem to serve a usable purpose, and seems to be a design flaw.
I'm still very happy with the phone, but when battery life is this important, that's kind of a big deal.
BHack said:
Pete, I'm not convinced most smart phones actually power themselves off of the wallcharger when plugged in as you seem to think. I have no real evidence to back this up, though - other than my own observations.
I will say that the EVO's method isn't as isolated as you seem to think. For example, the Palm Pre which I owned for a year previous to the EVO operates in the exact same manner.
The Pre would hit 100%, stop charging, operate on battery power until it dropped to 95%, then charge from 95 back to 100. The EVO, however, drops down to 90 before it starts the charge cycle again. This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
This might be your first phone that operates this way, but it certainly isn't unique to smartphones or HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had two Pres, and both had the battery % mod on them. I used to set them on my touchstone at work all day long, and I would take them off periodically. My battery drained so bad I could lose 30% in an hour with light use. If I ever took it off the touchstone when it wasn't at 100%, it was only because it got too low and wasn't at 100% yet. I noticed this on day one with my EVO, and never noticed a single issue anything like this on my Pre.
I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm saying I NEVER noticed this. As far as I knew, it charged to 100% and then ran off the plug, or at least that's what I assumed.
this is a strange thread for xda; competent, fully formed sentences. civilized banter. it's nice!
on topic though, i have noticed and came to this conclusion independently a couple months ago. it's kind of irritating - i hate how cheap manufacturers can be sometimes (all the time).
turn said:
this is a strange thread for xda; competent, fully formed sentences. civilized banter. it's nice!
on topic though, i have noticed and came to this conclusion independently a couple months ago. it's kind of irritating - i hate how cheap manufacturers can be sometimes (all the time).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I've seen MUCH worse forums. Try Anandtech sometimes. Some great threads there, and a ton of awful.
I feel like HTC is just not that company that cuts corners. I think this might have been a real attempt to make something work well - or better - but in my opinion it failed miserably.
WrlsFanatic said:
I had two Pres, and both had the battery % mod on them. I used to set them on my touchstone at work all day long, and I would take them off periodically. My battery drained so bad I could lose 30% in an hour with light use. If I ever took it off the touchstone when it wasn't at 100%, it was only because it got too low and wasn't at 100% yet. I noticed this on day one with my EVO, and never noticed a single issue anything like this on my Pre.
I'm not saying it wasn't there, I'm saying I NEVER noticed this. As far as I knew, it charged to 100% and then ran off the plug, or at least that's what I assumed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may not have noticed it, but I can guarantee you the Pre charged as I described. It was a "crapshoot" when you pulled it off the charger as to where you actually were in the charge. You could be anywhere from 95 - 100. Of course, the Pre would always show 100%, just as the EVO does.
Because the Pre's battery was smaller, WebOS was more battery hungry than Android, and the fact that it only cycled down to 95 instead of 90 like the EVO are all reasons why you might not have noticed it, but it was there.
BHack said:
This is probably better for the battery - but more confusing from a user perspective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would it be better for the battery? They may be partial charge-discharge cycles but they're cycles nonetheless and the Lithium Polymer cell chemistry is only capable of so many of 'em before it starts to degrade. Short cycles are easier on it than full cycles, but they all take a toll.
I currently have something like 40 LiPo packs that range from dinky little 35mAh single-cell micro batteries to a couple of 10S (37V) 5000mAh packs. I use them in my R/C planes and helicopters, communications gear, and electronics projects and I've used up and disposed of many times that over the years. I even had to build my own packs and chargers when I first started using them because the cells were experimental and there wasn't anything commercially available yet.
And I survived all that without having a single LiPo fire (that I didn't deliberately trigger) and I attribute that to the fact that I've been rabid about learning everything I can about the technology and the use and care of the batteries.
And I'm unaware of any benefit that can be gained from unnecessarily cycling LiPo batteries regardless of how small the cycles are.
Pete
WrlsFanatic said:
I feel like HTC is just not that company that cuts corners. I think this might have been a real attempt to make something work well - or better - but in my opinion it failed miserably.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My predominant theory is that HTC has erred on the side of caution on the advice of their legal department. LiPo cells can easily become little firebombs if they're mistreated and the overwhelming majority of "events" occur during a charge cycle. Search YouTube for lipo fire and you'll find pages and pages of examples, but beware:
You may not want to carry yer phone in yer pocket right next to yer cojones anymore after you do.
Pete
Having the wall battery charger solves this issue. The wall charger will charge the battery to full capacity.
It also allows me to test battery life on roms/kernels as accurately as possible. Only time I connect the phone to USB is when I need to move files.
Bioxoxide said:
Having the wall battery charger solves this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you say wall charger, do you mean one that you have to remove the battery from the phone and insert it in the charger?
Pete the Curious
Just wanted to say that there have been many discussions on this here at xda, I guess most of us just deal with it.
What I do is charge externaly with a cheap Chinese charger that Came with two batteries that work great.
Every since I made this move I haven't looked back. My battery life is great now, 24 plus hrs per charge. Sometimes I go close to 40 hrs, and I use Bluetooth, have GPS and WiFi ways on. In fact I don't cut any corners, no under clocking either.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.
For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.
Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles
Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.
Vincent Law said:
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Nyxagamemnon said:
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.
Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.
The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion
Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery
li-poly
Advantages
Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.
Limitations
Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.
by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....
jasahu said:
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.
Miketoberfest said:
Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this
Vincent Law said:
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:
1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
ragingredbull said:
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Bartcore3 said:
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).
Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy
---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------
stevedebi said:
I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Vincent Law said:
...
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
stevedebi said:
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.
I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
Vincent Law said:
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).
Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.
The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
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The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.
My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.
Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.